I was doing meals on wheels this morning like I have done every Thursday for the past several years....I was in a neighborhood at 74th and sheridan when I came to a 3way stop....rolled through the stop sign and turned right. I saw two tulsa police unmarked cars in the middle of the road and as I approached, one of them put his hand out of the window indicating me to stop. I was expecting him to ask where I was going, thinking something had happened beyond them. I was greeted with a "did you not see that stop sign you just rolled through." I answered and he proceeded to ask for DL and proof of insurance. Since I work for a rental car company and take home whatever vehicle I choose, I explained that I did not see the liability insurance we carry on all our cars in the glovebox but it is insured.
I also told him, I have a loaded handgun in the vehicle and proceeded to hand him my license and CCL...he said thank you for letting him know about the weapon and went back to his car. Several minutes later, he came to my window to inform me that he was issuing me a citation for "failure to cease all forward motion at a stop sign" and to sign here acknowledging that I promise to either pay the fine or appear in court. He then went on to berate me saying that he was able to verify the vehicle did have insurance but that he could have the vehicle towed for not having a copy of it in the vehicle.
I thought to myself, man, I am out here doing a good deed, giving back my time to the community and this is the flack I get? Come on man. I have my CLL which proves (atleast in my case, that I am an upstanding citizen" dont do this to me.
Do I have any recourse? its a 150 dollar fine. Is it worth fighting, or going in front of the judge to plead my case? or should I just pay the 150 and move on. It has left a sour taste in my mouth about TPD and this is coming from someone who always been pro law enforcement.
Quote from: TUalum0982 on October 18, 2012, 12:48:31 PM
rolled through the stop sign and turned right.
You answered your own question, you "rolled through the stop sign", so you didn't stop. Guess that traffic laws shouldn't exist in neighborhoods when you are working for meals on wheels and carrying a concealed legally. So two rights cancel out a wrong?
no, more along the lines that he has officer discretion and he can see that I am pretty upstanding citizen and that none of us on here are perfect. A warning of "next time, do me a favor and come to a complete stop" would have sufficed. More pissed off at his attitude towards myself with my parents in the vehicle than anything. When I say I rolled the stop sign, I slowed down, looked in both directions, maybe going 2-3 mph and proceeded to turn. Just kind of busch league in my opinion. Not saying the traffic laws dont apply to me, they most certainly do, but seriously? I hope he has a better day knowing he threatened to tow a vehicle of someone that was helping out the elderly who cant get out to get a hot meal and rely on people like me to help them.
Quote from: TUalum0982 on October 18, 2012, 01:21:14 PM
more along the lines that he has officer discretion and he can see that I am pretty upstanding citizen and that none of us on here are perfect. A warning of "next time, do me a favor and come to a complete stop" would have sufficed. More pissed off at his attitude towards myself with my parents in the vehicle than anything. When I say I rolled the stop sign, I slowed down, looked in both directions, maybe going 2-3 mph and proceeded to turn. Just kind of busch league in my opinion. Not saying the traffic laws dont apply to me, they most certainly do, but seriously? I hope he has a better day knowing he threatened to tow a vehicle of someone that was helping out the elderly who cant get out to get a hot meal and rely on people like me to help them.
A few years ago I was stopped after making a right turn on red, and told that I needed to come to a complete stop when doing so.
I actually didn't know that, and the officer seemed to think that the education alone was sufficient.
I did not disagree.
Sorry your encounter had less to do with traffic safety than with exercising authority.
Regardless of whether you were cited or not, it does sound like some of our city's ambassadors could work harder on that "regaining the public's respect" goal.
Speaking for myself, I respect what you are doing with Meals on Wheels.
Quote from: patric on October 18, 2012, 03:24:36 PM
A few years ago I was stopped after making a right turn on red, and told that I needed to come to a complete stop when doing so.
I actually didn't know that, and the officer seemed to think that the education alone was sufficient.
I did not disagree.
Sorry your encounter had less to do with traffic safety than with exercising authority.
Regardless of whether you were cited or not, it does sound like some of our city's ambassadors could work harder on that "regaining the public's respect" goal.
Speaking for myself, I respect what you are doing with Meals on Wheels.
Thank you....when I got a home, a part of me told myself "well if you didnt volunteer for MOW, you wouldnt have even been out driving, let alone in that neighborhood." Hindsight is 20/20. The reason I volunteer my time more so then giving money, is just for that reason. I deliver on my day off from work, and dont have much disposable income to donate or give away.
Interesting. I had the opposite experience just the other day, but it was a sheriff's deputy. He stopped me for "going 60 in a 30" and didn't even bother to write a warning.
Do we get court dates with trials and a prosecutor and everything here in Oklahoma? If so, call up the prosecutor and plead it down to something that won't go on your record (and might possibly be cheaper). In my younger days in Arkansas, that's how I kept my record clean. I've never had to bother here in Oklahoma because so far I've only had verbal or written warnings. I got a 65 in a 35, which is automatic reckless driving in Arkansas, plead to a $100 equipment violation with a freakin' payment plan (I was poor then) in Fayetteville once. The point being not to do a blind guilty plea if you can help it. Your insurance company will not be pleased should that citation show up on your record.
P.S. I wasn't actually driving that fast (it was more like 45) and was prepared to defend myself before the judge if need be. It was physically impossible for the officer to clock me at that speed at that location. There simply was not enough time to get a visual estimate of speed, then use the radar and get its number as they always claim to have done.
Quote from: TUalum0982 on October 18, 2012, 03:30:47 PM
Thank you....when I got a home, a part of me told myself "well if you didnt volunteer for MOW, you wouldnt have even been out driving, let alone in that neighborhood." Hindsight is 20/20. The reason I volunteer my time more so then giving money, is just for that reason. I deliver on my day off from work, and dont have much disposable income to donate or give away.
Whew! Come on...you got caught doing what you do all the time - and what MOST people do all the time - and you are just being a little bit pissy about it. Look at it from the other direction - you got away with it 3,276 times before, so are "beating" the system big time - multiply that out times $150 and you can see how much you have saved.
Like dbacks said...you answered your own question. You know you messed up AND got caught. Don't try to drag MOW into the discussion - they have nothing to do with your driving habits. It could just have easily been on the way to WalMart or Bass Pro Shops.
Quote from: TUalum0982 on October 18, 2012, 12:48:31 PM
when I came to a 3way stop....rolled through the stop sign and turned right.
So you broke the law..
Quote from: TUalum0982 on October 18, 2012, 12:48:31 PM
I thought to myself, man, I am out here doing a good deed, giving back my time to the community and this is the flack I get? Come on man. I have my CLL which proves (atleast in my case, that I am an upstanding citizen" dont do this to me.
Do I have any recourse? its a 150 dollar fine. Is it worth fighting, or going in front of the judge to plead my case? or should I just pay the 150 and move on. It has left a sour taste in my mouth about TPD and this is coming from someone who always been pro law enforcement.
You support the police as long as they don't require
you to follow the law?
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on October 18, 2012, 04:45:09 PM
Whew! Come on...you got caught doing what you do all the time - and what MOST people do all the time - and you are just being a little bit pissy about it. Look at it from the other direction - you got away with it 3,276 times before, so are "beating" the system big time - multiply that out times $150 and you can see how much you have saved.
Like dbacks said...you answered your own question. You know you messed up AND got caught. Don't try to drag MOW into the discussion - they have nothing to do with your driving habits. It could just have easily been on the way to WalMart or Bass Pro Shops.
I have never seen traffic cops sitting side by side blocking the road entering Walmart or bass pro. What you mention above is exactly how I feel when getting a speeding ticket. I feel differently over something so petty. Any major 4 way/3 way stop, I stop. This one in particular, I did not. Lesson learned. Will be calling prosecutor tomorrow and also if need be, going to court to plead my case. Hope it all ends well
Whenever I get pulled over, I ask the officer to not look in the trunk.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 18, 2012, 05:56:37 PM
Whenever I get pulled over, I ask the officer to not look in the trunk.
I tell them the voices made me do it!
'No officer, thats not blood, it's rusty coolant leaking from under there.'
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 18, 2012, 05:56:37 PM
Whenever I get pulled over, I ask the officer to not look in the trunk.
Yeah, it's always more fun when you're riding dirty. ;)
Are you a demo....nevermind.....
Pay your fine, then publish his name.
Quote from: TUalum0982 on October 18, 2012, 01:21:14 PM
A warning of "next time, do me a favor and come to a complete stop" would have sufficed.
Would a warning really have made you more likely than a ticket and fine to consider coming to a complete stop at stop signs in the future? Just curious.
It is hard to come to a complete stop when I have been drinking.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 19, 2012, 07:45:25 AM
Would a warning really have made you more likely than a ticket and fine to consider coming to a complete stop at stop signs in the future? Just curious.
I think of the warning my neighbor, whose a OHP trooper, issued me every time I pass the creek turnpike and hwy 75. That was when the bridge over 75 at 111th was under construction, so daily for 3yrs? it certainly has.
You actually did get a break when he choose not to tow your car for proof of insurance. They are in those neighborhoods because neighbors have contacted them specifically asking for traffic enforcement. I've received many warnings for speeding. I got two monster tickets driving to Nebraka . . . . guess who's driving a little slower now?? ;)
Quote from: tulsa_fan on October 19, 2012, 09:25:47 AM
You actually did get a break when he choose not to tow your car for proof of insurance. They are in those neighborhoods because neighbors have contacted them specifically asking for traffic enforcement. I've received many warnings for speeding. I got two monster tickets driving to Nebraka . . . . guess who's driving a little slower now?? ;)
Not me! Same speed forever!! Kick out the jams... oh, wait...different era...!!
79 mph down the turnpike appears to be fine for OHP. Have even passed them with cruise control set at that speed and no problem.
Quote from: tulsa_fan on October 19, 2012, 09:25:47 AM
You actually did get a break when he choose not to tow your car for proof of insurance.
They can and do check on their nifty little computers (or have dispatch check). Only once in my time here in Oklahoma have I been able to produce the actual card. As far as OHP goes, don't drive 90 and don't hit your brakes when you pass them and they won't hassle you unless they are speed trapping, IME.
Quote from: nathanm on October 19, 2012, 03:41:43 PM
They can and do check on their nifty little computers (or have dispatch check). Only once in my time here in Oklahoma have I been able to produce the actual card. As far as OHP goes, don't drive 90 and don't hit your brakes when you pass them and they won't hassle you unless they are speed trapping, IME.
I have sped up to follow fast cars on occasion, just to see how fast they were going - 85 mph. Couple of times after a few miles, I slowed back down after a few miles (mileage is too low at 85), and then a few miles later, I would pass them while they were talking to the OHP. Glad it wasn't me. So I just keep on piddling along at 79 and don't worry about it.
Quote from: tulsa_fan on October 19, 2012, 09:25:47 AM
You actually did get a break when he choose not to tow your car for proof of insurance. They are in those neighborhoods because neighbors have contacted them specifically asking for traffic enforcement. I've received many warnings for speeding. I got two monster tickets driving to Nebraka . . . . guess who's driving a little slower now?? ;)
correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression they could only tow your vehicle if they couldnt verify there was insurance on the car? I understand the company vehicle I was in, didnt have the actual slip of paper, but we are self insured and he saw in that the computer. For him to come back and say "I was able to verify there is insurance in the vehicle, however oklahoma law states that I could tow the vehicle away without insurance" I think was incorrect. I couldnt find the exact statute, but are they able to tow the vehicle even after verifiying vehicle does have insurance, just not the form? I just cant imagine a police officer berating me over something so trivial when I was delivering hot meals to elderly citizens. I plan on calling the DA's office on monday to discuss ticket further.
Quote from: TUalum0982 on October 20, 2012, 10:31:01 AM
For him to come back and say "I was able to verify there is insurance in the vehicle, however oklahoma law states that I could tow the vehicle away without insurance" I think was incorrect.
Now that sounds like a question you could present to what people in this town grudgingly refer to as "crime reporters".
Quote from: TUalum0982 on October 20, 2012, 10:31:01 AM
correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression they could only tow your vehicle if they couldnt verify there was insurance on the car? I understand the company vehicle I was in, didnt have the actual slip of paper, but we are self insured and he saw in that the computer. For him to come back and say "I was able to verify there is insurance in the vehicle, however oklahoma law states that I could tow the vehicle away without insurance" I think was incorrect. I couldnt find the exact statute, but are they able to tow the vehicle even after verifiying vehicle does have insurance, just not the form? I just cant imagine a police officer berating me over something so trivial when I was delivering hot meals to elderly citizens. I plan on calling the DA's office on monday to discuss ticket further.
The citation is for "lack of proof of insurance" not "lack of insurance"
Hell, I got pulled over for, at first, was 70 in a 60 on 75 southbound north of downtown.
He asked if I knew the speed limit and I told him it was 65. He said, nope, it's 60.
OK.
So he brings the electronic deal over for me to sign and I do. He says he dropped it to 9 over so it wouldn't go against insurance.
I get to work, look at the ticket, and it's for 74 in a 65.
On my way to work the next day I double checked the speed limit. Yep, it was 65.
I was still speeding by 5 but had the officer known the speed limit I still wonder if I would've gotten pulled over.
Quote from: sgrizzle on October 20, 2012, 03:23:25 PM
The citation is for "lack of proof of insurance" not "lack of insurance"
I don't understand why those little pieces of paper are considered "proof".
They're not proof of anything. Just a handy piece of paper that says who your insurance carrier is and what your acct-# is.
Impossible to forge... and impossible to go to your insurance website and print out your own.
Quote from: Weatherdemon on November 02, 2012, 08:59:49 AM
Hell, I got pulled over for, at first, was 70 in a 60 on 75 southbound north of downtown.
He asked if I knew the speed limit and I told him it was 65. He said, nope, it's 60.
OK.
So he brings the electronic deal over for me to sign and I do. He says he dropped it to 9 over so it wouldn't go against insurance.
I get to work, look at the ticket, and it's for 74 in a 65.
On my way to work the next day I double checked the speed limit. Yep, it was 65.
I was still speeding by 5 but had the officer known the speed limit I still wonder if I would've gotten pulled over.
The citation was a Defective Instrument. An honest judge would throw that one out.
A "Rolling Stop" is sometimes called a "California Stop".. I heard the cops are doing a crack down on red light runners and are now putting a focus on left turners, issuing tickets if your too far out in the intersection and finish your left turn when the light goes red- I don't get that, your supposed to complete your turn you have to yeild to the on coming vehicles. Tulsa has been having a rash of shootings and the cops focus manpower on red light and traffic nonsense. >:(
Quote from: sauerkraut on November 30, 2012, 09:37:08 AM
I heard the cops are doing a crack down on red light runners and are now putting a focus on left turners, issuing tickets if your too far out in the intersection and finish your left turn when the light goes red- I don't get that, your supposed to complete your turn you have to yeild to the on coming vehicles. Tulsa has been having a rash of shootings and the cops focus manpower on red light and traffic nonsense. >:(
I remember as a kid watching officers direct traffic at the big shopping centers before Christmas.
I never saw an accident while they were in complete control of the traffic.
Now there are grants that pay them to sit and wait for someone to get stuck in the intersection trying to make a left turn.
Seems like it worked better the old way.
Quote from: sauerkraut on November 30, 2012, 09:37:08 AM
Tulsa has been having a rash of shootings and the cops focus manpower on red light and traffic nonsense. >:(
The number of deaths resulting from homicides or traffic crashes is roughly the same in Tulsa, and since TPD has a responsibility to protect the lives of all the public, it's important that they devote resources to traffic law enforcement. Drive fast and you get a ticket. Drive drunk and you go to jail. Killing someone with a vehicle is no different from pulling the trigger of a hand gun. We'd have little sympathy for someone using a firearm in an irresponsible manner that resulted in death or injury. Why should it be any different for an irresponsible driver?
Quote from: sauerkraut on November 30, 2012, 09:37:08 AM
A "Rolling Stop" is sometimes called a "California Stop".. I heard the cops are doing a crack down on red light runners
Good. Red light runners are a bane on all our existence. If you enter the intersection on red, you deserve a hefty fine.
Quote
and are now putting a focus on left turners, issuing tickets if your too far out in the intersection and finish your left turn when the light goes red- I don't get that, your supposed to complete your turn you have to yeild to the on coming vehicles.
This is not awesome, and mainly serves to confuse drivers from other places where that is how you make a left turn at a busy intersection. I'd be interested to know exactly what Oklahoma law has to say on the subject.
Quote from: nathanm on November 30, 2012, 01:21:21 PM
Good. Red light runners are a bane on all our existence. If you enter the intersection on red, you deserve a hefty fine.
This is not awesome, and mainly serves to confuse drivers from other places where that is how you make a left turn at a busy intersection. I'd be interested to know exactly what Oklahoma law has to say on the subject.
IIRC, the law states you are not to enter the intersection unless you are continuing on with a turn or moving straight ahead. In other words, no parking in the intersection for any length of time. May have changed at some point, but that's what it was at some point back. I'm in my late 40's I have occasional mentalpause.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 30, 2012, 01:39:07 PM
IIRC, the law states you are not to enter the intersection unless you are continuing on with a turn or moving straight ahead. In other words, no parking in the intersection for any length of time. May have changed at some point, but that's what it was at some point back. I'm in my late 40's I have occasional mentalpause.
You can get a ticket for running a green light in some places. If you do not give the person stuck in the intersection enough time to go after their light turns red, you can be ticketed.
No, I do not know where. The radio people told me about it.
Quote from: nathanm on November 30, 2012, 01:21:21 PM
Good. Red light runners are a bane on all our existence. If you enter the intersection on red, you deserve a hefty fine.
This is not awesome, and mainly serves to confuse drivers from other places where that is how you make a left turn at a busy intersection. I'd be interested to know exactly what Oklahoma law has to say on the subject.
They have said on the news that you can't enter the intersection if the light turns yellow, and they say you can't complete your left turn if the light turns red as you wait for traffic to clear. I don't get that one. Lately Tulsa has been having alot of shootings and the cops are busy writting tickets.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 30, 2012, 01:39:07 PM
IIRC, the law states you are not to enter the intersection unless you are continuing on with a turn or moving straight ahead. In other words, no parking in the intersection for any length of time. May have changed at some point, but that's what it was at some point back. I'm in my late 40's I have occasional mentalpause.
The way I have understood it for years is do not enter into the intersection unless you can turn left. What the law says is
Quote
Title 47. Motor Vehicles
Chapter 11 - Rules of the Road
Article Article 6 - Turning, Starting, and Signals on Turning and Stopping
Section 11-601 - Required Position and Method of Turning at Intersections
The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall do so as follows:
2. Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left at an intersection shall approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of such vehicle. After entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection, as nearly as practicable, in the left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in such direction upon the roadway being entered. Whenever practicable, when leaving a two-way roadway, the left turn shall be made in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the intersection.