OK, Tulsa was ranked #50, but at least we made the list (with a shout-out to SoundPony).
http://www.bicycling.com/ride-maps/featured-rides/50-tulsa-ok
Quote from: dioscorides on May 23, 2012, 11:59:45 AM
OK, Tulsa was ranked #50, but at least we made the list (with a shout-out to SoundPony).
http://www.bicycling.com/ride-maps/featured-rides/50-tulsa-ok
Cool, I'm in that pic! I'm the guy in a helmet.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 23, 2012, 12:08:30 PM
Cool, I'm in that pic! I'm the guy in a helmet.
Sweet! I'm the one with my hand up peeing on the building.
Quote from: Townsend on May 23, 2012, 02:27:38 PM
Sweet! I'm the one with my hand up peeing on the building.
I saw you,
squatting over on the right.
I'm not a fan of the League of American Bicyclists, nor am I a member or instructor any more. LAB places a premium on bicycle infrastructure, basically the miles of bike lanes, cycle tracks, and multi-use paths in a city, rather than any sort of bike education for all road users. LAB exists as an astroturf organization to promote the interests of bicycle manufacturers. They've never done a before and after study to show if the facilities they so highly tout have any real effects on promoting bicycling. And the studies that have been done - most notably by Transportation Alternatives in NYC - have serious methodology shortcomings.
I'm not optimistic about the city bicycling subcommittee. It's been obvious that the city makes a token effort to accommodate cyclists, but that effort doesn't receive much support. Did you know that there are already bike lanes along some streets in Tulsa? If you look carefully under the accumulated debris, you can still find the markings.
A few weeks ago, there was a story in the news about the subcommittee taking a ride through Cherry Street and the surrounding area. One committee member said that part of their objective is to "build more sidewalks." Now, if someone totally ignorant of safe driving practices and the very real needs of motorists were in charge of building highways, there would be a public outcry. Yet when a committee member is similarly ignorant of the needs of real cyclists (rather than imaginary ones) that person has a role in the decision making process. It boggles the mind.
When you look at where the money goes, you gain a better perspective on the rationale. Road construction costs roughly a million dollars per lane mile, if I recall right, and that's before you get to something expensive like a bridge. There are jobs and political patronage tied up in putting down concrete. But educating motorists and cyclists isn't nearly as sexy. A pol can't point to a successful road cyclist and say, "Look what I brought to you!" Education costs much, much less and it's ignored by LAB and the political establishment.
My only gripes about cyclists is the mentality that if "there's a road, there's a cycling trial". Yesterday, I'm driving up 75 N to downtown, where all that ugly and UNATTENDED/UNWORKED ON bridge construction is (don't get me started on how that pisses me off), and there were cyclists riding all around the off ramp exits. THEY got pissed at all the horns going off at them because they were weaving out of traffic. I also saw some cyclist using the center of 111th street between Yale and Sheridan as his personal bike trail. He got pissed at me and his little 5'4" frame pulled over (hahaha) waiving his middle finger at me for apparently driving too close behind him. This is a 45 mph lane filled with people trying to get home. I'm sure T, Red, and Conan know this area. I got out to see what his problem was, but he just rode off.
Sorry, I'm kinda of an athlete as I run and ride. However, I understand that certain roads are there for traffic and not to accommodate my fitness regimen.
Quote from: guido911 on May 23, 2012, 05:37:35 PM
Sorry, I'm kinda of an athlete as I run and ride. However, I understand that certain roads are there for traffic and not to accommodate my fitness regimen.
It's a public road, Guido, for your use, my use, and everyone else regardless of their transportation mode.
Quote from: Ed W on May 23, 2012, 07:12:09 PM
It's a public road, Guido, for your use, my use, and everyone else regardless of their transportation mode.
And you are required by law to give the cyclists 3 feet of clearance when you pass. Treat cyclists like other slow moving traffic like tractors or Grandma, give them room and don't be in such a hurry. So what if it costs you an extra minute in your travels.
Okay Guido consider your knuckles slapped.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 23, 2012, 08:23:53 PM
And you are required by law to give the cyclists 3 feet of clearance when you pass. Treat cyclists like other slow moving traffic like tractors or Grandma, give them room and don't be in such a hurry. So what if it costs you an extra minute in your travels.
Okay Guido consider your knuckles slapped.
Do you and Ed want to have a debate on lawful use of the roadways by cyclists? I'll be happy to have it. For now, a cyclist doing 10-15 mph down the center of a lane in a 45 mph zone is in the way. Sorry. It's selfish and dangerous. And I bike!!
There are miles and miles trails along Riverside. If we need more, then let's raise the money and pay for it. IMO, two-lane, main arterials like 101st and 111th are to move vehicular traffic. Seriously, do we want bike-riders on 71st between Memorial and Mingo at 5:30 on a Friday?
Quote from: guido911 on May 23, 2012, 08:52:38 PM
Do you and Ed want to have a debate on lawful use of the roadways by cyclists? I'll be happy to have it. For now, a cyclist doing 10-15 mph down the center of a lane in a 45 mph zone is in the way. Sorry. It's selfish and dangerous. And I bike!!
It's much safer than hugging the edge of the roadway and encouraging you to pass too closely.
Quote
There are miles and miles trails along Riverside. If we need more, then let's raise the money and pay for it. IMO, two-lane, main arterials like 101st and 111th are to move vehicular traffic. Seriously, do we want bike-riders on 71st between Memorial and Mingo at 5:30 on a Friday?
What if they are going to Texas Roadhouse or whatever the heck is out there?
Quote from: guido911 on May 23, 2012, 08:52:38 PM
Do you and Ed want to have a debate on lawful use of the roadways by cyclists? I'll be happy to have it. For now, a cyclist doing 10-15 mph down the center of a lane in a 45 mph zone is in the way. Sorry. It's selfish and dangerous. And I bike!!
There are miles and miles trails along Riverside. If we need more, then let's raise the money and pay for it. IMO, two-lane, main arterials like 101st and 111th are to move vehicular traffic. Seriously, do we want bike-riders on 71st between Memorial and Mingo at 5:30 on a Friday?
To bike for exercise is not the only reason to bike. Some people use em for a means of transportation.
Of course, until I get some street tires on my bike, I'm not even going to attempt to hit primary roads. I'll wait until I can actually ride at a decent speed. I do ask, though, if I'm staying off of the roads, am I considered a pedestrian?
Quote from: Conan71 on May 23, 2012, 08:23:53 PM
And you are required by law to give the cyclists 3 feet of clearance when you pass. Treat cyclists like other slow moving traffic like tractors or Grandma, give them room and don't be in such a hurry. So what if it costs you an extra minute in your travels.
I hope you are happy with me following about 2 to 3 seconds behind you like I do with automotive traffic. Don't fall. You will stop a lot faster than a 2000 to 5000 lb motorized vehicle and you won't get up in 3 seconds.
I don't mind following a cyclist for a bit. Hugging the road edge is dangerous because of the usual paving conditions there. If the cyclist insists on not allowing an opportunity to pass for a mile or more he/she is just being a road hog and inviting a close pass.
Quote from: nathanm on May 23, 2012, 09:09:46 PM
What if they are going to Texas Roadhouse or whatever the heck is out there?
People who bike don't eat at places like that.
;D
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 23, 2012, 09:44:44 PM
People who bike don't eat at places like that.
;D
If that were true I would be svelte.
Quote from: nathanm on May 23, 2012, 10:04:09 PM
If that were true I would be svelte.
You need to get a bike that is harder to pedal. That way you would burn more calories than you eat at those places.
:D
One thing that cyclists do that really does irritate me is for them to pass a line of cars at a stop sign or traffic light to get in front and then take the lane. If you want to be treated like traffic, take your place in line with the rest of us. I've had that happen numerous times when I leave the cyclist a safe distance waiting for a safe opportunity to pass only to have them hug the shoulder to get past the waiting line of cars. That kind of attitude by cyclists does little to help their cause.
Quote from: nathanm on May 23, 2012, 09:09:46 PM
What if they are going to Texas Roadhouse or whatever the heck is out there?
All right. I'll give you that one. See, I'm agreeable.
My overall point is along Red's issue. You have a large, perhaps several ton, moving object made of metal trying to share space with what can be a child's toy. It's an absolutely unnecessary risk to everyone involved. From a liability point of view, if you are a cyclist and are hurt in a vehicular accident, expect to hear about comparative negligence when you look to have someone else pay your damages.
Quote from: guido911 on May 23, 2012, 10:25:34 PM
All right. I'll give you that one. See, I'm agreeable.
My overall point is along Red's issue. You have a large, perhaps several ton, moving object made of metal trying to share space with what can be a child's toy. It's an absolutely unnecessary risk to everyone involved. From a liability point of view, if you are a cyclist and are hurt in a vehicular accident, expect to hear about comparative negligence when you look to have someone else pay your damages.
How in the world is it an unnecessary risk to everyone involved? What if that is their only form of transportation? Is the "risk" then still unnecessary? How are you at risk? Are you not capable of following at a safe distance until it is safe to pass? Just because someone's in your way doesn't mean they're in the wrong.
I've realized how impatient people are now that I've started driving. I'll be driving along in a car clearly marked "Student Driver" and I am tailgated, passed illegally etc., while going the speed limit. I think it would be good for everyone to just have a little patience.
Quote from: ZYX on May 23, 2012, 10:34:26 PM
How in the world is it an unnecessary risk to everyone involved? What if that is their only form of transportation? Is the "risk" then still unnecessary? How are you at risk? Are you not capable of following at a safe distance until it is safe to pass?
Because I have spent enough time in court and litigation over this precise issue. How about you?
And if you saw my first point, I was speaking to those persons who cycle for exercise. These are the people that are often dressed like the tour de France is in town. I haven't seen too many persons traveling on Memorial in the center lane, or on 111th between Sheridan and Memorial for that matter, on bikes just to get around. Also, I haven't seen too many bikes at the Walgreen's drive thru, or parked out front of Target either. Where are all of these bicycle-reliant people anyway?
Quote from: guido911 on May 23, 2012, 08:52:38 PM
Do you and Ed want to have a debate on lawful use of the roadways by cyclists? I'll be happy to have it. For now, a cyclist doing 10-15 mph down the center of a lane in a 45 mph zone is in the way. Sorry. It's selfish and dangerous. And I bike!!
There are miles and miles trails along Riverside. If we need more, then let's raise the money and pay for it. IMO, two-lane, main arterials like 101st and 111th are to move vehicular traffic. Seriously, do we want bike-riders on 71st between Memorial and Mingo at 5:30 on a Friday?
Sorry, I re-read, I was picturing the stretch from Yale west to Louisville. If the cyclist was between Sheridan & Yale and hugging the middle without an intention to turn left and a clear hand-signal to turn he/she was being a complete dooshbag and trying to qualify for a Darwin. The only other excuse would be if the edge of the road was really rough. Legally, cyclists are supposed to ride as close to the right side of the road as they
safely can do it.
They all live in a place called "Mid-town," or maybe even "Downtown." You know......in "Tulsa." People like you and me aren't supposed to go there. ;D
Most people out here probably ride for exercise, but I still have no problem with them being on the roads, as long as they aren't deliberately trying to cause problems. Ones riding in the very middle are probably trying to cause problems.
However, I have never seen this happen so I'll take it as a rare occurrence.
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 23, 2012, 10:21:15 PM
One thing that cyclists do that really does irritate me is for them to pass a line of cars at a stop sign or traffic light to get in front and then take the lane. If you want to be treated like traffic, take your place in line with the rest of us. I've had that happen numerous times when I leave the cyclist a safe distance waiting for a safe opportunity to pass only to have them hug the shoulder to get past the waiting line of cars. That kind of attitude by cyclists does little to help their cause.
Cyclist dooshbaggery at it's worst. I always admonish others that if you want to be treated with respect in traffic you need to obey the laws everyone else does. Stop sign running, cutting in line, etc. is not only stupid, it's a bad image for cyclists. It's unfortunate that the impression some of the bad ones leave becomes the perception of the rest of us.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 23, 2012, 10:46:13 PM
Sorry, I re-read, I was picturing the stretch from Yale west to Louisville. If the cyclist was between Sheridan & Yale and hugging the middle without an intention to turn left and a clear hand-signal to turn he/she was being a complete dooshbag and trying to qualify for a Darwin. The only other excuse would be if the edge of the road was really rough. Legally, cyclists are supposed to ride as close to the right side of the road as they safely can do it.
Almost the letter of law. Good work.
Quote from: ZYX on May 23, 2012, 10:34:26 PM
I've realized how impatient people are now that I've started driving. I'll be driving along in a car clearly marked "Student Driver" and I am tailgated, passed illegally etc., while going the speed limit. I think it would be good for everyone to just have a little patience.
I noticed you said you were going the speed limit but in general:
After you have followed enough drivers going 35 in a 45 for a few miles with no passing zones available, you will start to call them discourteous. The time saved by going around them is often lost at the next traffic light but it feels good to get around someone with a bumper sticker that says "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you".
I had to follow a student driver on Delaware/121st a while back that was going only about 30. The driving school web site name was on the car. I sent an email with the time, date, location, and car ID asking why they were teaching drivers to be discourteous or was the student not ready to be out of the parking lot. I actually got an email back saying the owner would ask the instructor for some details and that the car should have been closer to the speed limit given the traffic and road conditions.
It also reminds me of the cartoon of two buzzards overlooking a bunch of nothing. On says to the other "Patience he!!, let's go kill something".
Quote from: ZYX on May 23, 2012, 10:48:35 PM
They all live in a place called "Mid-town," or maybe even "Downtown." You know......in "Tulsa." People like you and me aren't supposed to go there. ;D
Most people out here probably ride for exercise, but I still have no problem with them being on the roads, as long as they aren't deliberately trying to cause problems. Ones riding in the very middle are probably trying to cause problems.
However, I have never seen this happen so I'll take it as a rare occurrence.
Down this way, there are several newer subdivisions that are large enough that a few laps can be several miles. While you may not get the high speeds, you can certainly get a decent work out and also say "hi" to people just hanging out in their front yards. I've met several people this way, and now that I run more in these places, I can actually stop to chat with them.
On a health note, any other runners and cyclists out there? I seem to get my heart rate way higher on a bike than while running. And another thing, and I think Conman could relate as a few others in here, at my age I am stronger now than I was 10-15 years ago. So what am I saying? Get off your arses and get after it.... :D
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 23, 2012, 11:05:50 PM
I noticed you said you were going the speed limit but in general:
After you have followed enough drivers going 35 in a 45 for a few miles with no passing zones available, you will start to call them discourteous. The time saved by going around them is often lost at the next traffic light but it feels good to get around someone with a bumper sticker that says "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you".
I had to follow a student driver on Delaware/121st a while back that was going only about 30. The driving school web site name was on the car. I sent an email with the time, date, location, and car ID asking why they were teaching drivers to be discourteous or was the student not ready to be out of the parking lot. I actually got an email back saying the owner would ask the instructor for some details and that the car should have been closer to the speed limit given the traffic and road conditions.
It also reminds me of the cartoon of two buzzards overlooking a bunch of nothing. On says to the other "Patience he!!, let's go kill something".
And when you get in front of that bozo with the "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you", bumper sticker, make sure your "I'd rather be choking you out" sticker is visible to them. :P
Quote from: guido911 on May 23, 2012, 11:08:36 PM
And when you get in front of that bozo with the "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you", bumper sticker, make sure your "I'd rather be choking you out" sticker is visible to them. :P
We (the family) once had a car that didn't need that sticker. I would pull into the full serve gas station (yes, quite a while ago) and tell the attendant to fill the oil and check the gas. Really, we did.
OK all you legal cycling experts:
I have a unicycle. Would it be legal for me to ride it and take the lane on Memorial. I don't want to because I don't have a death wish. I am just wondering. I can go about 5 mph. Would a bicycle need to leave me 3 feet when passing? How would you hot-shot bicyclists feel if you had to follow a pack of 5 mph unicycles?
Quote from: ZYX on May 23, 2012, 10:34:26 PM
I've realized how impatient people are now that I've started driving. I'll be driving along in a car clearly marked "Student Driver" and I am tailgated, passed illegally etc., while going the speed limit. I think it would be good for everyone to just have a little patience.
Honestly, when I see student driver I tend to intentionally do some buzzing. Not enough to actually cause a wreck, but just enough to remind them to be alert for what the other idiots on the road are doing. It's my own additional "lesson" I like to give.
Quote from: custosnox on May 23, 2012, 11:19:20 PM
Honestly, when I see student driver I tend to intentionally do some buzzing. Not enough to actually cause a wreck, but just enough to remind them to be alert for what the other idiots on the road are doing. It's my own additional "lesson" I like to give.
Have you forgotten the stress of being behind the wheel for the first time? Everyone feels like they need to teach us young'uns a lesson, because we need to be prepared for all the idiot drivers in the world. Well, guess what, we come across those same idiots you do.
Intentionally driving worse around inexperienced drivers is a terribble idea. The slightest thing that you might consider to be easy to deal with could cause a student driver to overreact and oversteer, which very well could cause an accident.
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 23, 2012, 11:05:50 PM
I noticed you said you were going the speed limit but in general:
After you have followed enough drivers going 35 in a 45 for a few miles with no passing zones available, you will start to call them discourteous. The time saved by going around them is often lost at the next traffic light but it feels good to get around someone with a bumper sticker that says "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you".
I had to follow a student driver on Delaware/121st a while back that was going only about 30. The driving school web site name was on the car. I sent an email with the time, date, location, and car ID asking why they were teaching drivers to be discourteous or was the student not ready to be out of the parking lot. I actually got an email back saying the owner would ask the instructor for some details and that the car should have been closer to the speed limit given the traffic and road conditions.
It also reminds me of the cartoon of two buzzards overlooking a bunch of nothing. On says to the other "Patience he!!, let's go kill something".
My situation was as follows:
I was driving along a two lane highway, south of Bixby, where for most of the driving the speed limit was 65. In those portions of the road I did my best to stay about that speed and to not impede the flow of traffic. I then saw a sign dictating the speed limit to be 45 mph as opposed to 65mph. I adjusted my speed accordingly. Other drivers seemed to have no problems with this, and maintained reasonable following distances. As we got on further down the road, I never saw a sign indicating that the speed limit had increased, but the driver behind me was following way too close for comfort, so I sped up to about 55mph. The instructor had no objection to this. After continuing with this for about a mile, people began passing me. I have no problem with that, but these weren't all safe, or even legal passes. Many were around curves or across double yellow lines, and that did make me nervous. I was obviously impeding the flow of traffic, but I'm not going to speed up to the flow of traffic when a) it was to my knowledge against the law, and b) I didn't feel at all comfortable traveling at that speed.
That is why I feel that others should cut a bit of slack to student drivers. We're not prepared to react to an emergency situation, so please do your best not to create one.
Quote from: ZYX on May 24, 2012, 12:06:30 AM
Have you forgotten the stress of being behind the wheel for the first time? Everyone feels like they need to teach us young'uns a lesson, because we need to be prepared for all the idiot drivers in the world. Well, guess what, we come across those same idiots you do.
Intentionally driving worse around inexperienced drivers is a terribble idea. The slightest thing that you might consider to be easy to deal with could cause a student driver to overreact and oversteer, which very well could cause an accident.
Oh, I remember it. I had my first wreck when I was 11, rolled my first car at 15. As I said, I tend to throw in a bit of a buzz. I've been driving long enough to know how to get someone's attention without causing an accident. Trust me, intentionally driving worse around inexperienced drivers is not a terrible idea, take it from someone who has the experience to say so.
Quote from: custosnox on May 24, 2012, 12:13:48 AM
Oh, I remember it. I had my first wreck when I was 11, rolled my first car at 15. As I said, I tend to throw in a bit of a buzz. I've been driving long enough to know how to get someone's attention without causing an accident. Trust me, intentionally driving worse around inexperienced drivers is not a terrible idea, take it from someone who has the experience to say so.
I'm a fairly good driver. You wouldn't even know I was a student driver until I'm driving a car that is marked as such. It's when people start acting like idiots around me or forcing their way in front of me that I get nervous and drive worse. I understand that not every driver is perfect, and I will come across situations that I don't like. However, I handle those much better when I don't have other people trying to teach me a lesson or that cut me off at stop signs because they don't want to drive behind me.
Just let me deal with bad situations as they come, not as you deem them neccesary.
Quote from: ZYX on May 24, 2012, 12:19:22 AM
I'm a fairly good driver. You wouldn't even know I was a student driver until I'm driving a car that is marked as such. It's when people start acting like idiots around me or forcing their way in front of me that I get nervous and drive worse. I understand that not every driver is perfect, and I will come across situations that I don't like. However, I handle those much better when I don't have other people trying to teach me a lesson or that cut me off at stop signs because they don't want to drive behind me.
Just let me deal with bad situations as they come, not as you deem them neccesary.
You forget, I've been there already. Getting you a bit more used to idiot drivers in a way that, rather you think so or not, isn't actually endangering you will help you be prepared to act when it actually counts. You may not believe me, but when I do what I do, it may get your heart rate pumping a little bit because it's unexpected, but when it comes right down to it I'm not endangering you.
(http://imx.friendlyquiz.com/dailypic/20120523/4352.jpg)
Quote from: guido911 on May 24, 2012, 02:59:44 AM
(http://imx.friendlyquiz.com/dailypic/20120523/4352.jpg)
Wow! This guy took the game of 2 points for each bicycle, first driver to 100 wins seriously.
;D
Quote from: ZYX on May 24, 2012, 12:06:30 AM
Have you forgotten the stress of being behind the wheel for the first time?
Yes, I actually have forgotten. I learned to drive on private property and had been driving without an adult present since I was about 10. I had not wrecked or otherwise damaged any equipment. Our family went places on the weekend and usually took a vacation by car each summer. Being on the road was not traumatic for me. I know that not everyone has the opportunities I did.
Quote
My situation was as follows:
...but I'm not going to speed up to the flow of traffic when a) it was to my knowledge against the law,
You say you didn't see the sign. That happens. If that many people were passing in the conditions you describe there is a real probability that you were way too slow. Your instructor was probably seeing how you handled the situation. If you want to go slow, expect to be passed. Depending on how slow you are going, some other drivers may do stupid things to get around you.
Quote
and b) I didn't feel at all comfortable traveling at that speed.
That's part of learning to drive. When I was in Driver's Ed (in PA), our area was mostly 40 mph and less. We did have a by-pass around another town that was 60 mph. That was the defining task.... driving on the Media (name of the by-passed town) Bypass. My sister learned to drive here. Her defining task was to drive over the Banana Bridge.
Quote
That is why I feel that others should cut a bit of slack to student drivers. We're not prepared to react to an emergency situation, so please do your best not to create one.
I don't intentionally try to create an emergency situation for anyone. If you are never exposed to marginal situations, you will never be ready for an emergency. Good luck and I hope you don't learn by accident.
Now that we have the laws down, I'd like to add a couple of things to the bicycling discussion. Would you like to be judged by the dooshbag in your group? We, as cyclists, have to educate motorists and ourselves on how to handle traffic situations. Unfortunately, there are those few on both sides who refuse to follow the laws. The cyclist passing a line of stopped cars? Dooshbag. And the cyclist taking up the entire lane on a narrow two-lane? Yeah, dooshbag. There are safer roads to take. I will sometimes take up the lane on a rough patch of road but I do my level best to make sure traffic doesn't get caught up behind me. I will acknowledge drivers and wave them around to pass when it is safe. I find that drivers will back off just a bit when they know what I'm going to do. But they have to be paying attention. Just the other day I gave the motion for a passing car to stay behind me as I saw another car approaching a blind curve. She didn't see it and nearly caused an accident. It would help if motorists would put their damn phones down. Two days ago, I'm climbing up the hill on 36th St. just west of Harvard. Extra wide road, I'm as close to the right as possible and just as I reach the crest some a$$hat blows his horn RIGHT NEXT to me. Completely uncalled for and nearly sent me over the curb. Oh, and I love the people who have to stop right in the crosswalks on bike paths. And then there's the motorists who think turn signals are optional. How am I supposed to know what your intentions are so I can get out of your way? Not that I have to in most cases, but I find that goodwill earns me and the cycling community a bit of respect. It also insures that I get back home safely. So, the next time you've got a cyclist on the road with you, try to be patient and give him/her a chance to do something right. That way, you both get to your destination in one piece. You never know when that cyclist might be your friendly neighborhood insurance agent.;)
Quote from: MrsConan on May 24, 2012, 09:44:25 AM
You never know when that cyclist might be your friendly neighborhood insurance agent.;)
Or someone's wife. ;D
I completely respect riders; however, I do have one problem. If I were the guy riding the bike I am going to pick a safe path of travel, especially if I am riding during rush hour traffic. There is one gentlemen who rides down 106th st N at about 5:45. Normally this is not an issue, but the past three times I have come across him, he has been on the blind hill/turn between Memorial and Mingo. While he is going in the opposite direction, you have idiots being held up behind him wanting to pass. One of those times I had to almost eat a tree with my truck because of this. I am not faulting the rider for the poor choices of the driver, but I wouldn't want to ride that hill just out of my own safety.
Quote from: MrsConan on May 24, 2012, 09:44:25 AM
but I do my level best to make sure traffic doesn't get caught up behind me.
We can't even get car drivers to abide by that simple courtesy.
Quote
Oh, and I love the people who have to stop right in the crosswalks on bike paths.
Too many drivers have no concept of what the limit line is for. I always seem to be on the right of some oversize Pickup truck with their doors on over the limit line blocking the view to the left. It makes it difficult to make a right turn on red after stop when some idiot blocks the line of sight to traffic.
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 23, 2012, 10:21:15 PM
One thing that cyclists do that really does irritate me is for them to pass a line of cars at a stop sign or traffic light to get in front and then take the lane.
I have a problem with cyclists doing this illegally, but I don't consider bike boxes to be a bad idea at all. They probably wouldn't make much sense at 111th and Sheridan, though.
Quote from: guido911 on May 23, 2012, 10:40:13 PM
Where are all of these bicycle-reliant people anyway?
Right here. (Not completely reliant, but I'm selling my car..it turns out one is plenty for us) You're probably not going to find me nearly in Bixby on my bike, though. 15 miles is about my limit these days.
Quote from: MrsConan on May 24, 2012, 09:44:25 AM
Two days ago, I'm climbing up the hill on 36th St. just west of Harvard.
I call that "death and resurrection." Yes, I am that much of a pansy. It might help if I didn't have an extra 12 year olds' worth of weight holding me back. ;)
Anyway, I'm pretty weird. I prefer riding on the four lane roads where terrain allows me to travel at a decent clip. Why? Because everybody's got their own lane to cheerfully pass me by should they so desire, even if I'm having to take the whole lane to keep away from glass, car doors, or whatever else drivers don't notice that I have to avoid)
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 24, 2012, 12:25:25 PM
We can't even get car drivers to abide by that simple courtesy.
Well now, there's a switch! A cyclist with better road manners than most drivers? LOFL!
Too many drivers have no concept of what the limit line is for. I always seem to be on the right of some oversize Pickup truck with their doors on over the limit line blocking the view to the left. It makes it difficult to make a right turn on red after stop when some idiot blocks the line of sight to traffic.
I concur. A lady looked me right in the eye (well, she would have if I hadn't had my shades on) as she stopped in the crosswalk to make a right turn, completely blocking it in front of the casino. And she waited for the green light on purpose, as there was no traffic. I just smiled at her and mustered the traffic karma curse in her name. I hate it when I don't get the memos that they own the entire road.;)
[
I call that "death and resurrection." Yes, I am that much of a pansy.
LOL.....that's okay N. That groaner's not for the weak, I assure you.
And I apologize for the prior post........can't figure out this whole "quote" thing.........
Quote from: MrsConan on May 24, 2012, 01:30:14 PM
[
I call that "death and resurrection." Yes, I am that much of a pansy.
LOL.....that's okay N. That groaner's not for the weak, I assure you.
And I apologize for the prior post........can't figure out this whole "quote" thing.........
MC, just make sure that last "/quote" tag is before your response and you'll be ok...sometimes there is a lot of blank lines before it for whatever reason.
Quote from: guido911 on May 23, 2012, 11:06:36 PM
Down this way, there are several newer subdivisions that are large enough that a few laps can be several miles. While you may not get the high speeds, you can certainly get a decent work out and also say "hi" to people just hanging out in their front yards. I've met several people this way, and now that I run more in these places, I can actually stop to chat with them.
On a health note, any other runners and cyclists out there? I seem to get my heart rate way higher on a bike than while running. And another thing, and I think Conman could relate as a few others in here, at my age I am stronger now than I was 10-15 years ago. So what am I saying? Get off your arses and get after it.... :D
I do both and for me running is the more strenuous work out. You can't "coast" while runinning and I keep up a 7 to 8 minute mile for 5 to 6 miles 6 times per week.
Running is easy, we're built to run continuously for most of a day in 110 degree heat. That's how our ancestors caught game before the invention of projectile weapons. They'd chase the gazelle or whatever until it became exhausted, at which time it was an easy kill. (I know running a few miles at a fast pace isn't actually that easy)
Running is far harder on me than cycling or rowing, regardless what I was built for.
Quote from: Hoss on May 24, 2012, 01:33:22 PM
MC, just make sure that last "/quote" tag is before your response and you'll be ok...sometimes there is a lot of blank lines before it for whatever reason.
Thanks, Hoss!
Quote from: nathanm on May 24, 2012, 01:55:17 PM
Running is easy, we're built to run continuously for most of a day in 110 degree heat. That's how our ancestors caught game before the invention of projectile weapons. They'd chase the gazelle or whatever until it became exhausted, at which time it was an easy kill. (I know running a few miles at a fast pace isn't actually that easy)
Not saying it's hard...I love running. I'm saying sitting on my arse and pushing a pedal with my feet (unless I'm just sitting and coasting) is even easier than running.
Quote from: carltonplace on May 24, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
while runinning and I keep up a 7 to 8 minute mile for 5 to 6 miles 6 times per week.
Wow, am I an incredible lightweight.
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 23, 2012, 11:17:48 PM
OK all you legal cycling experts:
I have a unicycle. Would it be legal for me to ride it and take the lane on Memorial. I don't want to because I don't have a death wish. I am just wondering. I can go about 5 mph. Would a bicycle need to leave me 3 feet when passing? How would you hot-shot bicyclists feel if you had to follow a pack of 5 mph unicycles?
Two points, entirely unrelated to each other. The first is about lane positioning and the apparent belief that a cyclist riding in the center of it is somehow being an arrogant doosh. For a lane to be shareable side by side, it must be about 14 feet wide or greater. Consider this. A bicycle is two feet wide, and a cyclist should keep two to three feet away from the fog line. If his tire track is at three feet, and his left handlebar extends another foot, motorists are supposed to pass at least three feet to the left of his handlebar, putting them at least seven feet from the fog line. The average car is 6 feet wide with some far wider, so that 7+6 is 13 feet. Most lanes in the Tulsa area are no wider than 12 feet. To pass safely, then, a motorist must cross the center line and that means waiting until it's safe to do so.
What happens when a cyclist is being "courteous" by riding as far to the right as possible? (Note that I did not say "as far right as practicable") Drivers try to shoot the gap between the cyclist and on-coming traffic. The cyclist ends up having cars going by just at his elbow. It's worse when he rides in the center or right tire track, and then pulls to the right. A solid line of cars will pass, lemming-like, and if he needs to move back the left, there's a solid moving wall of steel.
So a cyclist riding in the center of a narrow lane isn't doing it to piss you off, Guido, (though there's something to be said for that). It's just safer for the cyclist. Remember that when those drivers are trying to shoot the gap, they have to judge the speed and distance in a second or two, and some are better at it than others. But if the cyclist moves further left, he takes away any dithering on the part of the motorist. He simply must slow down and pass when it's safe.
I'm sure that somewhere in your reading you've seen the requirement that each of us on the road must exercise due care when driving or cycling. That means it's
always the responsibility of the overtaking driver to pass safely - and that equally applies to cyclists passing pedestrians. We all have the same right to use the public way regardless of our choice of transportation, and the reason we're on the road is irrelevant. Along with rights come responsibilities, and part of the reason I became an instructor was to educate cyclists on their very real responsibilities.
Now, the other thing. There are two forms of exercise that allow us to push well into the cardiac "red zone" without realizing it. One is cycling. The other is swimming. We don't have to fight gravity as much, so it's easy to push too hard. I used a heart rate monitor on very hot days as a rev limiter. The alarm was set at 160 or 165 beats per minute. When it was hot, my heart did about 115-120 just walking across the parking lot. It worked hard to move blood around for cooling, and when I hit a modest grade, the rate spiked at 175-180 almost immediately. But the weird thing is that it didn't feel like I was working hard, though my heart certainly was. There wasn't any shortness of breath or burning leg muscles. At the time, my theoretical max was around 200.
So my advice for you...ah...middle aged...men is to learn to take your pulse periodically when it's hot, or invest in a heart monitor. It's cheap insurance.
Quote from: Ed W on May 24, 2012, 05:31:21 PM
We all have the same right to use the public way regardless of our choice of transportation, and the reason we're on the road is irrelevant.
Nope. And I am not going to get into that any further. My entire point is about safety and risk and you want to turn this into a "Cyclist Rights" thing with me. Not biting because I do not care.
Quote from: nathanm on May 24, 2012, 01:55:17 PM
Running is easy, we're built to run continuously for most of a day in 110 degree heat.
Maybe originally but would not be smart for most of us now.
Quote from: Ed W on May 24, 2012, 05:31:21 PM
Two points, entirely unrelated to each other. The first is about lane positioning and the apparent belief that a cyclist riding in the center of it is somehow being an arrogant doosh. For a lane to be shareable side by side, it must be about 14 feet wide or greater. Consider this. A bicycle is two feet wide, and a cyclist should keep two to three feet away from the fog line. If his tire track is at three feet, and his left handlebar extends another foot, motorists are supposed to pass at least three feet to the left of his handlebar, putting them at least seven feet from the fog line. The average car is 6 feet wide with some far wider, so that 7+6 is 13 feet. Most lanes in the Tulsa area are no wider than 12 feet. To pass safely, then, a motorist must cross the center line and that means waiting until it's safe to do so.
What happens when a cyclist is being "courteous" by riding as far to the right as possible? (Note that I did not say "as far right as practicable") Drivers try to shoot the gap between the cyclist and on-coming traffic. The cyclist ends up having cars going by just at his elbow. It's worse when he rides in the center or right tire track, and then pulls to the right. A solid line of cars will pass, lemming-like, and if he needs to move back the left, there's a solid moving wall of steel.
So a cyclist riding in the center of a narrow lane isn't doing it to piss you off, Guido, (though there's something to be said for that). It's just safer for the cyclist. Remember that when those drivers are trying to shoot the gap, they have to judge the speed and distance in a second or two, and some are better at it than others. But if the cyclist moves further left, he takes away any dithering on the part of the motorist. He simply must slow down and pass when it's safe.
I'm sure that somewhere in your reading you've seen the requirement that each of us on the road must exercise due care when driving or cycling. That means it's always the responsibility of the overtaking driver to pass safely - and that equally applies to cyclists passing pedestrians. We all have the same right to use the public way regardless of our choice of transportation, and the reason we're on the road is irrelevant. Along with rights come responsibilities, and part of the reason I became an instructor was to educate cyclists on their very real responsibilities.
Now, the other thing. There are two forms of exercise that allow us to push well into the cardiac "red zone" without realizing it. One is cycling. The other is swimming. We don't have to fight gravity as much, so it's easy to push too hard. I used a heart rate monitor on very hot days as a rev limiter. The alarm was set at 160 or 165 beats per minute. When it was hot, my heart did about 115-120 just walking across the parking lot. It worked hard to move blood around for cooling, and when I hit a modest grade, the rate spiked at 175-180 almost immediately. But the weird thing is that it didn't feel like I was working hard, though my heart certainly was. There wasn't any shortness of breath or burning leg muscles. At the time, my theoretical max was around 200.
So my advice for you...ah...middle aged...men is to learn to take your pulse periodically when it's hot, or invest in a heart monitor. It's cheap insurance.
You didn't answer my questions.
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 24, 2012, 08:47:34 PM
You didn't answer my questions.
I did, but I'll expand on it if you like.
"I'm sure that somewhere in your reading you've seen the requirement that each of us on the road must exercise due care when driving or cycling. That means it's always the responsibility of the overtaking driver to pass safely - and that equally applies to cyclists passing pedestrians."
As far as I'm aware, a unicycle is no different from any other bicycle under Oklahoma law. But there are some oddities that may change that statement. Local laws can prohibit it, for instance, and OK once had a law that defined bicycles by their wheel size. That changed a few years ago.
So riding your unicycle on the road would require that you obey traffic law just like everyone else. Overtaking cyclists, motorcyclists, motorists, runners, and the occasional Amish buggy would have to pass you at least 3 feet away. However, please be aware that at 5mph you're fair game for recumbent riders who are only marginally faster and are prone to telling long, boring stories while they ride alongside you for mile after mile.
As for riding behind a slow moving unicyclist, we'd just pass you the same as we pass other, slower riders all the time.
Seriously, I did a Freewheel training ride with a guy on a unicycle once. His had a large wheel, perhaps a 26 inch, and he rode across the state on it.
Quote from: Ed W on May 24, 2012, 09:22:25 PM
Seriously, I did a Freewheel training ride with a guy on a unicycle once. His had a large wheel, perhaps a 26 inch, and he rode across the state on it.
I've seen some advertisements for large wheel unicycles for going distances. My unicycle has a 24" wheel. That was the relatively common larger size when I bought it. 20" was a common smaller size. I haven't ridden it for a while. I used to ride it around the neighborhood for a few miles a day. Then my butt got sore so I quit for a while that got extended.
I found the web site with the big wheel unicycles:
http://www.unicycle.com/unicycles/commuter-touring/
Quote from: Ed W on May 24, 2012, 09:22:25 PM
As for riding behind a slow moving unicyclist, we'd just pass you the same as we pass other, slower riders all the time.
I was thinking of a pack of unicycles like the Wednesday Night Ride that usually goes up near Sand Springs. I know people that ride in it and a few others that live in the area and hate it.
Quote from: guido911 on May 24, 2012, 05:58:38 PM
Nope. And I am not going to get into that any further. My entire point is about safety and risk and you want to turn this into a "Cyclist Rights" thing with me. Not biting because I do not care.
Personally, I thought Ed did a good job of explaining what everyone's responsibilities are on the roadway, at least everyone with a legal reason to be on the roadway.
It's not a matter of cyclists rights. It's a matter of respecting each others presence on the road. Typically, I will avoid heavily travelled roads which are not marked as "share the road" and most wise cyclists will do this as well- speaking to risk and safety. Many of the roads I ride on in rural areas are marked 45 or 50 MPH. I usually pick such roads because they are lightly traveled. On the odd chance I get hit by some dill weed with their head buried in their cell phone, so long as I'm riding as close as I safely can to the right side of the road, there's no contributory negligence.
I wasn't in the car with you when the incident you shared happened so I honestly can't say whether or not you were following closer than necessary or if the cyclist was an oversensitive doosh.
Keep in mind, some people do have to transit public roads to get to trails or less traveled roads and by the law, they do have the right to do so though they may be less comfortable than others in transiting those roads and they might be a little twitchy. That's why I always try to give even more space than required.
I can't speak for someone being an arrogant doosh in their car, on their bike, or on their crotch rocket. I will say that initiating a confrontation is generally not considered a good idea.
And as far as the idea most people have that the proper roadway for cyclists is the trail system, try navigating around people with five kids and two dogs on a leash every 1/10th of a mile and you will understand, at least for competitive cyclists, why the road is a far safer place to train.
Most important is simply remember that whomever that cyclist, walker, runner, skate boarder, hand-stander, fellow driver, or motorcyclist is someone else's child, parent, spouse, grandparent, etc. We all need to back off the throttle a little and give each other a little more room.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 24, 2012, 10:03:46 PM
On the odd chance I get hit by some dill weed with their head buried in their cell phone, so long as I'm riding as close as I safely can to the right side of the road, there's no contributory negligence.
Dead men tell no tales...Sorry, but that's reality when your atop a 40-50lb bike and get whacked by a 1-2T metal projectile/automobile going 45 mph.
Quote from: guido911 on May 24, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
Dead men tell no tales...Sorry, but that's reality when your atop a 40-50lb bike and get whacked by a 1-2T metal projectile/automobile going 45 mph.
I know that's a possibility when I ride on the road. It's every bit as much a reality getting on the highway in a 1.5T Hyundai vs. an 18 wheeler. So long as I'm doing it legally, there's no contributory negligence.
What are you running from, sauerkraut? ;D
Quote from: guido911 on May 24, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
Dead men tell no tales...Sorry, but that's reality when your atop a 40-50lb bike and get whacked by a 1-2T metal projectile/automobile going 45 mph.
Many so-called 'bicycle' advocates rely on the politics of fear, Guido. It's an excellent fund-raising tool, but when confronted with reality, the fear is largely exaggerated. We kill roughly 700 bicyclists each year on our roads, with about a third of them children. We also kill another 35,000 motorists, and that's actually a reduction from a high of 42,000 a few years ago. When you look at the risk on a per-capita basis, cycling and motoring are about even. But this is based on a large assumption since there are no accurate statistics of the number of adult cyclists. The National Bicycle Dealers Association counts anyone who rides a bicycle even once per year as a cyclist. If I recall right, their estimate is around 60 million. They also estimate the number of 'regular' cyclists, those who ride one or more times per week as around 6 million.
When you look at risk on miles traveled, the risk for cyclists is higher. But if you look at the time spent cycling versus the time spent driving, cycling is less risky.
But all of that doesn't mean squat to the average cyclist, motorist, police officer, elected official, or municipal planner. They're not interested in the reality of cycling, only their perceptions, just as you are. And their perception is that road cycling is extremely dangerous, so dangerous in fact, that cyclists should be barred from the roadways for their own safety. Granted, you haven't advocated that, but you've adopted the blame-the-victim mentality that comes with an assumption that driving a motor vehicle somehow confers superior rights to the public way. It's ain't so, and I ask you to seriously examine that thought.
Contributory negligence merely blames the victim. In some cases it's appropriate, like when a cyclist rides through a stop sign or red light. But that would be the same for a car driver. Yet you seem to be saying that by being on the road riding in a legal and lawful manner, a cyclist is somehow at fault if a motorist hits him. It's the same as saying a rape victim deserved it because of the clothing she wore, or that a pedestrian in a crosswalk who gets hit by a motorist turning right on red is at fault just because he got out of bed that morning. It's a bad argument, Guido.
I vaguely recall a case in Oklahoma where a child was hit by a motor vehicle, and the child was at least partly at fault. He was on the blind side of a curve or a hill, if I remember right, and there wasn't time for the driver to react and stop. Still, that's entirely different from someone operating a vehicle lawfully. If you know of a case where a person was driving legally and was convicted of contributory negligence, I'd sure like to know more about it.
Quote from: nathanm on June 02, 2012, 01:24:19 PM
What are you running from, sauerkraut? ;D
Right now at my rip old age I'm running from a family history of strokes. My dad got his first stroke at age 50 and a major stroke at age 57. When I first started the sport of running in the 1980's I did it for pleasure and enjoyment, today I'm thinking more of the health bennies as I run.
Cycling on streets seems risky no matter how the numbers are adjusted. The best place to cycle is on the jogging trails. I'm not into cycling and can't cycle very good anyhow- never could understand the sport of bike riding, and don't know much about it. I also can't swim worth a hoot either. I do know that cars and bikes don't mix.
Quote from: sauerkraut on June 08, 2012, 10:48:48 AM
Cycling on streets seems risky no matter how the numbers are adjusted. The best place to cycle is on the jogging trails. I'm not into cycling and can't cycle very good anyhow- never could understand the sport of bike riding, and don't know much about it. I also can't swim worth a hoot either. I do know that cars and bikes don't mix.
Bikes and people running three wide or walking their kids and dogs on the trail don't mix either.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 08, 2012, 12:43:07 PM
Bikes and people running three wide or walking their kids and dogs on the trail don't mix either.
Sure they do. Just painfully.
Quote from: sauerkraut on June 08, 2012, 10:48:48 AM
Cycling on streets seems risky no matter how the numbers are adjusted. The best place to cycle is on the jogging trails. I'm not into cycling and can't cycle very good anyhow- never could understand the sport of bike riding, and don't know much about it. I also can't swim worth a hoot either. I do know that cars and bikes don't mix.
So because you think its "risky" to be on the rode that's built for tired vehicles you think its better to have said tired vehicles on a trail with runners, dogs, and babies.
Would it not be safer for everyone if people followed the rules of the road and used them?
PS: Did anyone know some elementary schools are still teaching kids to walk and ride into traffic? Which is not only unsafe, nut its against the law.
Quote from: godboko71 on June 08, 2012, 04:06:48 PM
PS: Did anyone know some elementary schools are still teaching kids to walk and ride into traffic? Which is not only unsafe, nut its against the law.
Walk into traffic, ride with traffic. Is that not the rule?
Quote from: nathanm on June 08, 2012, 04:08:53 PM
Walk into traffic, ride with traffic. Is that not the rule?
Walking into traffic on side streets with no sidewalk is one thing, riding into traffic is just asking to get hurt.
Quote from: sauerkraut on June 08, 2012, 10:48:48 AM
....never could understand the sport of bike riding, and don't know much about it....I do know that cars and bikes don't mix.
That's like saying, "I know nothing about driving, but I'll tell you how you should drive." Or, "I know nothing about football, but allow me to explain how the game should be played."
If you know little about it, perhaps you should consider learning more.
Quote from: Ed W on June 08, 2012, 04:28:27 PM
That's like saying, "I know nothing about driving, but I'll tell you how you should drive." Or, "I know nothing about football, but allow me to explain how the game should be played."
If you know little about it, perhaps you should consider learning more.
+1
Quote from: godboko71 on June 08, 2012, 04:06:48 PM
So because you think its "risky" to be on the rode that's built for tired vehicles you think its better to have said tired vehicles on a trail with runners, dogs, and babies.
What's with the tired vehicles? Do they need a 5 hour energy boost?
Quote from: godboko71 on June 08, 2012, 04:06:48 PM
So because you think its "risky" to be on the rode that's built for tired vehicles you think its better to have said tired vehicles on a trail with runners, dogs, and babies.
Would it not be safer for everyone if people followed the rules of the road and used them?
PS: Did anyone know some elementary schools are still teaching kids to walk and ride into traffic? Which is not only unsafe, nut its against the law.
People are people and will never follow all the rules, then toss in cell phone drivers and you get an intresting mix stired up. The bottom line is simple physics- a 4,000 pound car vs a 10 pound bike with a 170 pound rider- who will come out better in a tango dance between the two? It is what it is.
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 08, 2012, 09:30:56 PM
What's with the tired vehicles? Do they need a 5 hour energy boost?
Tired and exausted from doing the "Tulsa Tuff" bike ride no doubt. :D
Quote from: sauerkraut on June 23, 2012, 01:46:12 PM
People are people and will never follow all the rules, then toss in cell phone drivers and you get an intresting mix stired up. The bottom line is simple physics- a 4,000 pound car vs a 10 pound bike with a 170 pound rider- who will come out better in a tango dance between the two? It is what it is.
You don't understand the statistics and the risks. Which results in more injuries and death - riding a bicycle or simple falls around the house? Do more cyclists get killed or injured, or is the number of killed and injured pedestrians higher? Do motorists often die from head injuries, and if so, should they be required to wear helmets? Is a sedentary lifestyle more likely to result in heart disease and death as opposed to one that includes regular exercise?
Sure, there's a chance that a cyclist could be crushed under a motor vehicle. We all know that and accept the slim possibility. There's also a possibility that any one of us could be crushed while walking across the street or driving a motor vehicle, yet no one exaggerates that possibility and by extension, argues that driving or walking is extremely dangerous.
Go peddle your fears somewhere else.
Looking for bicycle-mounted Roman candle/bottle rocket jousting while on my run this evening. Any tips on locations where this version of the Darwin awards is being played out?
Quote from: guido911 on July 04, 2012, 08:27:33 PM
Looking for bicycle-mounted Roman candle/bottle rocket jousting while on my run this evening. Any tips on locations where this version of the Darwin awards is being played out?
From the 17th floor of Liberty Tower, looked like all over the place. Looked like someone down in Garden City blew their whole TANF check on one heck of a display prior to the 21st St. bridge one. Either that or it was some well-to-do tweakers.
I was driving back from my uncle's house south of Fort Smith around dusk and found that the fireworks were pretty much continuous from Muskogee to Tulsa, between the various cities, HOAs, golf courses, and individuals setting off fireworks. It looked like more than a few people bought those high dollar light show cannons. There was some fire fountain of doom going on out by the Bass Pro Shop. Not long after that, CoT's show became visible.
There were several shows that competed on burst frequency, but nobody had shells the size of the ones the city was setting off. The show was easily visible from the 21st/Harvard area.
I thought last night's show was one of the best I've seen in Tulsa.
Good thing were weren't San Diego.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/san-diego-fireworks-show-blows-up-in-15-seconds/2012/07/05/gJQALajePW_video.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/san-diego-fireworks-show-blows-up-in-15-seconds/2012/07/05/gJQALajePW_video.html)
Quote from: carltonplace on July 05, 2012, 02:46:58 PM
I thought last night's show was one of the best I've seen in Tulsa.
Good thing were weren't San Diego.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/san-diego-fireworks-show-blows-up-in-15-seconds/2012/07/05/gJQALajePW_video.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/san-diego-fireworks-show-blows-up-in-15-seconds/2012/07/05/gJQALajePW_video.html)
Kind of like Tulsa's show two years ago, eh?
We had fireworks going off all night in my neighborhood, someone was shooting them in the sky.
Quote from: sauerkraut on July 07, 2012, 12:47:40 PM
We had fireworks going off all night in my neighborhood, someone was shooting them in the sky.
What? As opposed to into the ground?
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120213055636/uncyclopedia/images/5/52/Double-facepalm.jpg)
Cher weighs in on cyclists and their use of roadways?
http://twitchy.com/2012/09/30/cher-rants-about-pacific-coast-highway-bicyclists/
Love this one
Quote@cher Bicyclists are worse than people in Escalades! They think they own the fkn road!
I don't know about you, but I'm never under any illusion as to who owns the road when I'm out on my bike on a busy road. :P
Quote from: nathanm on October 01, 2012, 04:00:45 PM
I don't know about you, but I'm never under any illusion as to who owns the road when I'm out on my bike on a busy road. :P
Believe it or not, I find I'm less stressed on the bike on a public road than driving on a Tulsa expressway in my car.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 01, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
Believe it or not, I find I'm less stressed on the bike on a public road than driving on a Tulsa expressway in my car.
Either way that jackass in the old pickup is still out to get you.
When I was riding to work and back regularly, bike commuting actually became kind of boring. I saw the same drivers every day, the same dogs, the same gravel trucks. I didn't meet any homicidal maniacs driving cars. No one tried to kill me.
Driving on US169, on the other hand, has been an exercise in frustration and annoyance. The road goes from three lanes down to two at 56th Street North, and there's a sign telling drivers that about a mile further south. Rather than merge smoothly with traffic, however, a considerable number of fellow motorists have to gain a critical couple of seconds by passing everyone by driving in that right hand lane until it ends. Then they merge suddenly, causing a chain reaction as drivers attempt to avoid them.
What is it about driving a car that disables basic courtesy? For that matter, the ability to do simple math seems disabled too, as there's little to be gained by driving aggressively. Perhaps that aggressive driver gains 15 seconds on following traffic. Is there a prize awarded for "First Place at the Next Traffic Light"?
Riding a bike taught me not to get concerned over traffic. My bigger concern was the wind and weather. A good tailwind took 5-7 minutes off the commute, while a stiff headwind added 10-15.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 01, 2012, 04:19:49 PM
Believe it or not, I find I'm less stressed on the bike on a public road than driving on a Tulsa expressway in my car.
I don't doubt it. Drivers aren't terribly courteous when I'm on my bike, though. Not assholish, except down south where they like to yell things, but still very clearly more involved with whoever they're talking to on the phone than with whomever happens to be traveling the road with them.
Quote from: Ed W on October 01, 2012, 04:44:25 PM
Is there a prize awarded for "First Place at the Next Traffic Light"?
Yes. You don't know about it?
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 01, 2012, 08:08:04 PM
Yes. You don't know about it?
I'm perpetually amazed at the speed some of my coworkers use while
going to work. If you're already late - as in you missed your clock-in time - driving faster will not reverse the Earth's rotation and turn back the clock. On the other hand, I can't understand the LeMans start at quitting time, either. Some of these guys must sprint from the clock out to their cars, because they're moving mere seconds after the clock-out time.
The parking lot is the most dangerous part of my commute.
Quote from: Ed W on October 01, 2012, 08:55:35 PM
I'm perpetually amazed at the speed some of my coworkers use while going to work. If you're already late - as in you missed your clock-in time - driving faster will not reverse the Earth's rotation and turn back the clock. On the other hand, I can't understand the LeMans start at quitting time, either. Some of these guys must sprint from the clock out to their cars, because they're moving mere seconds after the clock-out time.
The parking lot is the most dangerous part of my commute.
We have somewhat flexible schedules. There are core hours when everyone is supposed to be there but an hour or so on either end is available for individual adjustment. Special events override the flex time, of course.
I still find that someone going slow in the inside lanes because they don't want to be inconvenienced by right turners (on Memorial) to be just plain discourteous.
Occasionally, they will be turning left but I have followed enough pokie okies from 111th to the Creek Turnpike (96th) that just keep going straight to stand by the discourteous evaluation. There is no reason (weather and traffic permitting) not to be near the speed limit in the left/inside lanes.
I expect the LeMans start at quitting time is to avoid being stuck in the glug of traffic. Yep, parking lots are dangerous places.
Edit: I forgot to say that in the morning the traffic lights appear to be timed and I can frequently make it from 111th to the Turnpike with only one or two stops for traffic lights. Sometimes there is a delay at a light due to traffic but the light is green long enough to make it through. Sometimes I can get all the way on the Turnpike without stopping after 111th. Three lanes going slow will screw that up. On the weekend, the trip is hopeless. I try to stay off of Memorial. Counting the lights at 111th and the light to turn west on the Turnpike, there are 9 traffic lights in 1-1/2 miles.
It can take 20monutes to go four miles n Memorial on a Sarurday. Great fun!
Quote from: ZYX on October 01, 2012, 10:30:12 PM
It can take 20monutes to go four miles n Memorial on a Sarurday. Great fun!
Good reason to use Mingo or Garnett up to a point...Memorial between 31st and Bixby is sheer madness most days.
Quote from: Hoss on October 01, 2012, 10:35:56 PM
Good reason to use Mingo or Garnett up to a point...Memorial between 31st and Bixby is sheer madness most days.
I sometimes use Sheridan. If I am going west, I may take 111th to Yale and then north to the Turnpike or even go south to 121st and then to Delaware (River Road). Traffic on Memorial north of 91st often lightens up a bit compared to 91st to about 131st. Come visit us a little after noon on a nice Saturday. Make sure you have plenty of gas in your car.
Quote from: Ed W on October 01, 2012, 04:44:25 PM
When I was riding to work and back regularly, bike commuting actually became kind of boring. I saw the same drivers every day, the same dogs, the same gravel trucks. I didn't meet any homicidal maniacs driving cars. No one tried to kill me.
Driving on US169, on the other hand, has been an exercise in frustration and annoyance. The road goes from three lanes down to two at 56th Street North, and there's a sign telling drivers that about a mile further south. Rather than merge smoothly with traffic, however, a considerable number of fellow motorists have to gain a critical couple of seconds by passing everyone by driving in that right hand lane until it ends. Then they merge suddenly, causing a chain reaction as drivers attempt to avoid them.
What is it about driving a car that disables basic courtesy? For that matter, the ability to do simple math seems disabled too, as there's little to be gained by driving aggressively. Perhaps that aggressive driver gains 15 seconds on following traffic. Is there a prize awarded for "First Place at the Next Traffic Light"?
Riding a bike taught me not to get concerned over traffic. My bigger concern was the wind and weather. A good tailwind took 5-7 minutes off the commute, while a stiff headwind added 10-15.
That probably causes more wrecks in construction zones than anything, the jackass who just has to try and merge at the very last second and doesn't understand he/she and the other jackasses doing the same thing are the reason traffic is not flowing well through the merge area. The stupid behavior I see behind the wheel these days is truly vexing. It's not always been that way around Tulsa.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 02, 2012, 09:42:35 AM
It's not always been that way around Tulsa.
I blame Bush.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 02, 2012, 09:42:35 AM
the jackass who just has to try and merge at the very last second and doesn't understand he/she and the other jackasses doing the same thing are the reason traffic is not flowing well through the merge area.
A limited number of people late merging increases throughput if there is available space for them to merge in. Late merging into inadequate space causes jams. It's an interesting math problem.
Quote from: nathanm on October 02, 2012, 01:30:46 PM
A limited number of people late merging increases throughput if there is available space for them to merge in. Late merging into inadequate space causes jams. It's an interesting math problem.
I've never seen it happen as people generally are jamming on their brakes to A) Brake-check the a-hole who just crammed in on their rear bumper and then the chain-reaction starts.
Jeebus Nate, do you ever quit?
Quote from: Conan71 on October 02, 2012, 02:45:03 PM
Jeebus Nate, do you ever quit?
Quit what, knowing things about things? Yes, sometimes I do. It usually involves rum, but does occasionally involve Sundown Wheat.
Quote from: nathanm on October 02, 2012, 03:12:27 PM
Quit what, knowing things about things? Yes, sometimes I do. It usually involves rum, but does occasionally involve Sundown Wheat.
You need to expand your horizons. Try some Atlas IPA.
Quote from: nathanm on October 02, 2012, 01:30:46 PM
A limited number of people late merging increases throughput if there is available space for them to merge in. Late merging into inadequate space causes jams. It's an interesting math problem.
The only time there will be adequate space to merge late is when some maroon is leaving way too much space for the speed. If you cut in front of that driver, (s)he will dutifully step on the brakes to maintain that space. This will cause a wave behind that totally screws up everything. How many times have we all finally got to the front of a traffic jam to find nothing there to cause a jam. Way too many for me.