Anyone seen the plans? The trail has been removed between 26th and Riverside for replacement. I'm wondering if this will include new lights, drainage etc.
Just says closed until December 2012
http://www.incog.org/transportation/trailguide/MidlandValley/trailguide_midlandvalley_trail%20with%20closure.pdf (http://www.incog.org/transportation/trailguide/MidlandValley/trailguide_midlandvalley_trail%20with%20closure.pdf)
It needs it, the asphalt was in horrid condition.
From City of Tulsa website (http://www.cityoftulsa.org/news/news-stories/2012/midland-valley-trail-improvements-under-way.aspx)
QuoteMidland Valley Trail Improvements Under Way
Construction is under way on $1.07 million in improvements to the Midland Valley Trail between 21st Street and the pedestrian bridge in the 2800 block of Riverside Drive.
The trail is being widened and paved with concrete instead of asphalt. New lighting is being installed and a new pedestrian crossing signal will be installed where the trail crosses 21st Street just east of Boston Avenue.
Other amenities include a new rest area with benches, a drinking fountain, trash receptacles and pet-waste receptacles, new signs and planting of new trees.
Construction began March 9 and is expected to be complete in September 2012. Construction is being done by Tri-Star Construction LLC which was the low bidder at $1,071,663, slightly less than the engineer's estimate of $1,113,882. Engineering design services for the project were $130,000.
Fifty percent of the funding for the project is from a transportation grant from the Oklahoma Department of Transportation. Twenty-five percent is from the George Kaiser Family Foundation, which has also funding extensive improvements to RiverParks Trails. The remaining 25 percent is from the City of Tulsa.
From the River Parks site. I think they're doing the section from 26th-Riverside now:
QuoteWe've received many emails and calls about the Midland Valley Trail Renovation. First off, we would like to make clear that the Midland Valley Trail is NOT a part of River Parks. That trail is cared for by Tulsa Parks, and they are coordinating the current renovation. We're happy to see this renovation take place. Here is a list of things that we've learned from discussions with the Tulsa Parks department:
* The project is being done in two phases, 21st-26th, and 26th-Riverside. Each phase should take around 90 days. Only half of the trail will be blocked off at a time.
* The closed-off area on the parking lot at 31st and Riverside will be decreased in size very shortly.
* The completion date for the project is slated for September.
* The trail will use the same lighting features as the River Parks trails.
http://www.riverparks.org/midland-valley-trail-renovation/
Thanks all!
I am happy to see the path updated and I like the renovations chosen. I'm even happier that RPA still has nothing to do with that stretch since I frequent it often. Not looking forward to the increased usage by speed racing bikes and the "hoi polloi". We kind of liked having that little stretch all to ourselves over here. ;)
Quote from: AquaMan on March 30, 2012, 01:50:13 PM
I am happy to see the path updated and I like the renovations chosen. I'm even happier that RPA still has nothing to do with that stretch since I frequent it often. Not looking forward to the increased usage by speed racing bikes and the "hoi polloi". We kind of liked having that little stretch all to ourselves over here. ;)
I guess we "hoi-polloi" will be jogging through your neighborhood streets until they are done AquaMan.
Conan is right, that asphalt was terrible, you could feel it through your shoes.
Quote from: AquaMan on March 30, 2012, 01:50:13 PM
I am happy to see the path updated and I like the renovations chosen. I'm even happier that RPA still has nothing to do with that stretch since I frequent it often. Not looking forward to the increased usage by speed racing bikes and the "hoi polloi". We kind of liked having that little stretch all to ourselves over here. ;)
hopefully, the widening will create bike lanes like the trail along the river has. i already feel like i have watch my back so i don't get run over when i am running or riding my 'cruiser' through there.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 30, 2012, 02:00:54 PM
I guess we "hoi-polloi" will be jogging through your neighborhood streets until they are done AquaMan.
Conan is right, that asphalt was terrible, you could feel it through your shoes.
i had to amend my running route to go down 26th toward riverside. going back up that hill was not fun. i didn't try to go across riverside since it turned out to be very close to how far i wanted to go. trying to cross riverside in the morning is not something i really want to do on a regular basis. i may end up going toward downtown and then back for longer runs.
Bonus points for anyone who knows what hoi polloi means. Without looking online, of course.
Quote from: jacobi on March 30, 2012, 03:48:52 PM
Bonus points for anyone who knows what hoi polloi means. Without looking online, of course.
Montgomery Burns used it many times.
There was a band named hoi polloi that played Tulsa in the 1980s
Its greek for "the many". Its a derogatory expression of the Oligos ("the few", hence oligarch) towards the poor masses.
Tulsa hoi poloi are much better than OKC's. In fact they're dang near the best in the state!
Quote from: jacobi on March 30, 2012, 03:48:52 PM
Bonus points for anyone who knows what hoi polloi means. Without looking online, of course.
Uneducated and/or unwashed masses
Twas My HS Chemistry teacher's favorite "word"
Quote from: BKDotCom on March 30, 2012, 06:59:56 PM
Uneducated and/or unwashed masses
Twas My HS Chemistry teacher's favorite "word"
My HS Chemistry teacher's favorite saying was "fair ended in first grade". I am inclined to agree.
Since we're talking HS Chemistry teachers....Mr. Vestal, Central High School.
After we had all learned our chemical symbols he asked us to tell him what this common formula represented: AUH2O (remember, this was the late 60's). None of us could figure it out because we didn't have much political indoctrination yet.
Quote from: AquaMan on March 31, 2012, 07:48:56 AM
Since we're talking HS Chemistry teachers....Mr. Vestal, Central High School.
After we had all learned our chemical symbols he asked us to tell him what this common formula represented: AUH2O (remember, this was the late 60's). None of us could figure it out because we didn't have much political indoctrination yet.
I believe the second letter in a chemical symbol for an element is supposed to be lower case. Subscripts (for the 2) don't show up too well here.
AuH
2O
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 31, 2012, 09:39:29 AM
I believe the second letter in a chemical symbol for an element is supposed to be lower case. Subscripts (for the 2) don't show up too well here.
AuH2O
Roger that. After we had failed to determine what the compound was he said, "What? You never heard of Goldwater?" It was clever in 1968.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 30, 2012, 09:59:51 PM
My HS Chemistry teacher's favorite saying was "fair ended in first grade". I am inclined to agree.
It is true, but a defeatist statement. What is is not what has to be, it merely is what is.
Quote from: nathanm on March 31, 2012, 03:28:19 PM
It is true, but a defeatist statement. What is is not what has to be, it merely is what is.
Your generation vs. mine. I took it to be a challenge to go get what's yours, not sit back and lament that it wasn't handed out to you. It was also not intended to turn young minds into criminals.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 31, 2012, 04:00:48 PM
not sit back and lament that it wasn't handed out to you. It was also not intended to turn young minds into criminals.
Yes, RA, the poor folk are just lazy. It's got nothing to do with differences in education, opportunity, familial support, or anything else. They need to get out there and take what's theirs, not sit at home and complain!
Quote from: nathanm on March 31, 2012, 04:41:37 PM
Yes, RA, the poor folk are just lazy. It's got nothing to do with differences in education, opportunity, familial support, or anything else. They need to get out there and take what's theirs, not sit at home and complain!
I'm going to get dizzy if you spin this any more than you have already. The teacher was responding to the kids who said it wasn't fair that they didn't get a good grade. This particular teacher always said to show your work. If you did, you got more points that even if you got the right answer but didn't show your work. The rules were announced before the tests. Some kids didn't follow directions. It had NOTHING to do with the parent's economic status.
You can stop accusing me of thinking all poor folk are lazy. There are some that are. I had an Uncle that wouldn't even finish hid GED with my parents paying for the courses. Other people have other issues and I know that it's not always about lazy.
I'm of the belief stupid can be fixed but lazy can't.
Quote from: rdj on April 02, 2012, 09:48:30 AM
I'm of the belief stupid can be fixed but lazy can't.
I subscribe to Ron White's belief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6wbsGx9qw&t=1m56s
Quote from: Hoss on April 02, 2012, 10:15:06 AM
I subscribe to Ron White's belief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6wbsGx9qw&t=1m56s
Yeah, but how many people are really stupid? Rather, most are just too lazy to actually learn. Even those with a true "low IQ" can be trained to be productive members of society. I'd assert that our society has far more lazy people that waste their intelligence, thus being labeled stupid, than true "stupid" people.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 31, 2012, 06:35:05 PM
I'm going to get dizzy if you spin this any more than you have already. The teacher was responding to the kids who said it wasn't fair that they didn't get a good grade. This particular teacher always said to show your work. If you did, you got more points that even if you got the right answer but didn't show your work. The rules were announced before the tests. Some kids didn't follow directions. It had NOTHING to do with the parent's economic status.
You can stop accusing me of thinking all poor folk are lazy. There are some that are. I had an Uncle that wouldn't even finish hid GED with my parents paying for the courses. Other people have other issues and I know that it's not always about lazy.
The quote "fair ended in first grade" implies that unfairness is inevitable. The situation you're describing has nothing to do with fairness. If you don't follow the rules and don't answer correctly, it's not "unfair" to get a bad grade. It's a whiny child being whiny if they claim unfairness.
Quote from: DowntownDan on April 02, 2012, 11:54:06 AM
The quote "fair ended in first grade" implies that unfairness is inevitable. The situation you're describing has nothing to do with fairness. If you don't follow the rules and don't answer correctly, it's not "unfair" to get a bad grade. It's a whiny child being whiny if they claim unfairness.
As long as we are off topic, I might as well resign myself to the fact that there are no people unwilling to work around impediments to their success (in anything, not just financial) and that all conditions are due to something being "unfair".
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 02, 2012, 12:51:06 PM
As long as we are off topic, I might as well resign myself to the fact that there are no people unwilling to work around impediments to their success (in anything, not just financial) and that all conditions are due to something being "unfair".
You know, it is actually possible that there are some lazy clucks without mental illness and with all the opportunity in the world out there who are destitute only due to their own actions. That, unfortunately, is not the case for most people living in poverty.
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 02, 2012, 12:51:06 PM
As long as we are off topic, I might as well resign myself to the fact that there are no people unwilling to work around impediments to their success (in anything, not just financial) and that all conditions are due to something being "unfair".
And while I'm at it: those kids and their devil music! That Elvis Presley and his satanic hips! Those lazy kids, listening to jazz all day, reading Kerouac and wearing nothing but black unitards and berets!
Shorter RA: What's The Matter With Kids These Days!
Quote from: nathanm on April 02, 2012, 02:56:21 PM
You know, it is actually possible that there are some lazy clucks without mental illness and with all the opportunity in the world out there who are destitute only due to their own actions. That, unfortunately, is not the case for most people living in poverty.
Poverty. Isn't that a town a bit southwest of Altus?
Seriously, you keep jumping right on the poverty thing. There are other things in life that may be unfair.
I find it highly unlikely that the FAA will allow a blind person to be an airline captain. That's unfair. I can't sing (spent the money my mom gave me for singing lessons on flying instead) but what if I wanted to be a Rock & Roll star? I tried for a little bit to learn to play guitar. My musical talent consists of playing a stereo and listening to other peoples' music. I think it's unfair that I don't have a natural talent for music. I'm not any good at sports. That's unfair. I don't have any talent for making up stories. I had to go to "creative writing" class in summer school after 5th grade in order to pass. It's unfair that I cannot make up stories and write a novel. I am not an artist. I look at some of the stuff Artist has posted and thought that I would like to have half his artistic talent. I don't, that's unfair.
I'm happy as an engineer and have no career goals (not even when I was younger) to be a Rock Star, major league athlete, novelist, or artist. Some of that stuff would just be nice to be able to do for fun.
Get the idea?
Quote from: we vs us on April 02, 2012, 03:23:01 PM
Shorter RA: What's The Matter With Kids These Days!
Yep.
Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way? What's the matter with kids today?
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 02, 2012, 03:35:13 PM
Get the idea?
I understand that you seem to have a very strange conception of what fairness is. If I had your conception of it, I probably wouldn't believe in it either.
Quote from: nathanm on April 02, 2012, 06:15:33 PM
I understand that you seem to have a very strange conception of what fairness is. If I had your conception of it, I probably wouldn't believe in it either.
That's only a part of what I believe fairness is and I obviously don't think it's so strange. I do think it's strange that every time someone mentions fairness, you bring up that poor folk aren't lazy. It's unfortunate that you have limited your understanding of fairness to the liberal mantra.
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 02, 2012, 08:05:42 PM
That's only a part of what I believe fairness is and I obviously don't think it's so strange. I do think it's strange that every time someone mentions fairness, you bring up that poor folk aren't lazy. It's unfortunate that you have limited your understanding of fairness to the liberal mantra.
It's the most visible manifestation of the fundamental unfairness in the way our economy has been restructured over the past 20-30 years, so of course it's what pops into my mind when you talk about fairness. If you look back, you might even notice that my first response didn't mention poor or lazy. ;)
Quote from: nathanm on April 02, 2012, 08:15:57 PM
It's the most visible manifestation of the fundamental unfairness in the way our economy has been restructured over the past 20-30 years, so of course it's what pops into my mind when you talk about fairness. If you look back, you might even notice that my first response didn't mention poor or lazy. ;)
You immediately identified unfairness as a defeatist attitude, followed up with your second reply including "Yes, RA, the poor folk are just lazy".
I'm sure you will condemn me for calling this unfair: I earned a Merit Scholarship in High School by being a good student. It was for a couple of hundred dollars a year when tuition and room and board in the dorms was about $1000/semester. I
earned that scholarship. It was
taken from me because my dad made a middle management salary. If the sponsors wanted a scholarship for mediocre students of poor parents, they should have called it that.
I am surprised that you think the economic restructuring including Affirmative Action is unfair. I would have thought you would like that.
I know you are a progressive income tax guy. I am a flat tax guy with deductions at the bottom for
everyone, which actually makes it progressive but only to allow for a basic cost of living.
Businesses that are owned by minorities and women have advantages over other businesses when dealing with government contractors. I am surprised you find that unfair.
When I was in college (68-72), minorities were given relaxed entrance standards and put in remedial classes but not as make-up classes. I am surprised you find that unfair. I think they should have been required to go to Jr/Community Colleges to make up their deficits in learning like my brother had to do. Relaxed standards for minorities only diluted the value of my degree.
Edit: typo correction.
An alternative for relaxed standards for minorities at college would have created a two tier value of a diploma. One for non-minorities and one for all minorities, not just the ones that came in on relaxed standards.
Midland Valley Trail. You guys seem to have taken your personal differences and infused them into a discussion of running trails. Can't we all just agree that OMAHA AND FT WORTH have some great running trails?
Quote from: AquaMan on April 03, 2012, 10:17:39 AM
Midland Valley Trail. You guys seem to have taken your personal differences and infused them into a discussion of running trails. Can't we all just agree that OMAHA AND FT WORTH have some great running trails?
I guess you won't use the term "hoi polloi" on future jogging trail posts.
Look what you have wrought! Look at it!
Quote from: carltonplace on April 03, 2012, 10:46:19 AM
I guess you won't use the term "hoi polloi" on future jogging trail posts.
Look what you have wrought! Look at it!
Ashamed. Ashamed I am.
In reality I thought it was a dish Hawaiians made from tree roots. My bad.
Midland Valley Trail is open now and very swanky.
I love it. Concrete, smooth, wide and backlit. I have been riding it and running it for a few weeks while dodging machinery and encouraging the workers. Still a little bit of debris scattered around and the marking is incomplete but I road it at 5:30 am one day and it was really, big city cool.
Oh, yeah. No hoi polloi sightings as of yet.
Quote from: AquaMan on July 27, 2012, 09:30:11 AM
I love it. Concrete, smooth, wide and backlit. I have been riding it and running it for a few weeks while dodging machinery and encouraging the workers. Still a little bit of debris scattered around and the marking is incomplete but I road it at 5:30 am one day and it was really, big city cool.
Oh, yeah. No hoi polloi sightings as of yet.
If the crow creek corridor happens I suppose it will have a similar trail? I can't understand why the property owners would balk at that...this Midland trail is very nice and a boon to the neighborhood IMHO.
Quote from: carltonplace on July 27, 2012, 09:44:34 AM
If the crow creek corridor happens I suppose it will have a similar trail? I can't understand why the property owners would balk at that...this Midland trail is very nice and a boon to the neighborhood IMHO.
Maybe when they see the results they will appreciate its value to them. I was skeptical of the support of the entire neighborhood around the gathering place but I haven't heard any complaints and the real estate people are touting it in their listings. Seems like a lot of folks between 31st and 36th, Riverside to Peoria would benefit. Once you go east of Peoria along Crow Creek, you get into some serious money and that could be problematic. I remember the Crow Creek from Peoria is supposed to have a trail along it but not sure if is going farther east?
Quote from: AquaMan on July 27, 2012, 09:53:16 AM
Maybe when they see the results they will appreciate its value to them. I was skeptical of the support of the entire neighborhood around the gathering place but I haven't heard any complaints and the real estate people are touting it in their listings. Seems like a lot of folks between 31st and 36th, Riverside to Peoria would benefit. Once you go east of Peoria along Crow Creek, you get into some serious money and that could be problematic. I remember the Crow Creek from Peoria is supposed to have a trail along it but not sure if is going farther east?
I think Grizz has better deets than I, but my memory is that the trail would connect Peoria Ave to Riverside only.