Our very own Phil Wilson.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/varney-co/index.html#/v/1383561509001/unions-killed-the-twinkie/?playlist_id=87060
Simplistic. Fits you. Unions...bad. Incompetent bakers...good.
Expensive labor. . .bad. Inexpensive cash flow. . .good.
;D
Failure to keep up with consumer changes in demand....bad. Failure to understand and cope with growth of organics and healthy food movements....bad.
Insistence that white bread is the fault of Unions...headline material.
12 unions and 400 different labor contracts? Does anyone understand how much that equates to in administrative costs just to deal with union labor?
One of our vendors explained to me several months ago that the union labor hourly rate isn't vastly higher than non-union in our primary industry. Yes, union wages and benefits do increase payroll costs but he said it's the administrative bullshit to deal with the union that makes it much more costly.
Quote from: AquaMan on January 12, 2012, 09:35:42 AM
Failure to keep up with consumer changes in demand....bad. Failure to understand and cope with growth of organics and healthy food movements....bad.
Insistence that white bread is the fault of Unions...headline material.
Have you looked around Reasor's lately? Unfit and unhealthy are still in vogue. At least in this area.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 12, 2012, 09:37:07 AM
Unfit and unhealthy are still in vogue. At least in this area.
Thus Dunkin Donuts chomping at the bit.
These baked goods are all made by union workers...
» bimbo
» boboli
» brownberry
» EarthGrains
» Entenmann's
» francisco
» freihofer's
» marinela
» mrs baird's
» oroweat
» sara lee
» stroehmann
» thomas'
» tia rosa
They seem to be doing just fine.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on January 12, 2012, 09:38:44 AM
These baked goods are all made by union workers...
» bimbo
» boboli
» brownberry
» EarthGrains
» Entenmann's
» francisco
» freihofer's
» marinela
» mrs baird's
» oroweat
» sara lee
» stroehmann
» thomas'
» tia rosa
They seem to be doing just fine.
Or just haven't filed bankruptcy yet.
Wonder totally missed the healthy foods movement. Add to that the decrease in per capita bread consumption, the proliferation of junk food to compete with Twinkies, Cupcakes and SnoBalls and you're looking at a company that needed to blame its failures on labor. Past negotiations reduced their labor costs but not enough to compete with importing of packaged goods made with really cheap labor.
One of the biggest labor problems they faced is not in manufacturing, though, but in transportation. Trucking costs and merchandising. Every business now is facing exploding costs of fuel, maintenance and the complexity of routing. Most just farm it out. I don't believe they owned their own transportation. Truck drivers are already pretty poorly paid and often forced into buying their own trucks and contracting with the manufacturer. That accounts for the 12 unions and 400 different contracts.
Too bad. I liked the brand and some of the products were my childhood mainstays. Mike is right. The mgmnt got out managed by others and are blaming the unions like I blamed my big brother for everything.
You are spoiling their fun. All business failures are because of unions and all business success is based on tax cuts for the rich.
I suspect any future lack of Twinkie "goodness" might have much more to do with it having been trotted out as an example of the worst "food" evar since at least the 80s. It's interesting how in Gaspar's world, unions are always at fault.
Quote2012 Bankruptcy
By December 2011 it was reported that Hostess Brands was on the verge of filing for bankruptcy a second time after it suspended payments for union pensions and was struggling to remain current on its $700 million loan.[11]
On January 10, 2012 Hostess Brands filed For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy for the second time. In a statement in its filing the company said it "is not competitive, primarily due to legacy pension and medical benefit obligations and restrictive work rules." The company said it employs 19,000 people and carries more than $860 million in debt. The company said it would continue to operate with $75 million debtor-in-possession financing from Monarch Alternative Capital, Silver Point Capital and other investors.[3]
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/interstate-bakeries-corporation#ixzz1jGPFTbfC
Certainly behemoths like Hostess suffer from high overhead costs simply due to how large a corporation they are and how many facilities they operate. They are caught in a squeeze between higher operating costs and demands for lower price points from major grocers and retailers.
That said, you can't ignore that union costs do impact the bottom line of American industry. Union pensions and health benefits for the retired are costly legacies for companies. Look at it another way, RM, how financially sound would the MET be if 1/3 of the people on your payroll were no longer employed by you? Companies are paying quite a bit for no return in productivity moving forward. I suspect the days of corporate pension plans and good medical coverage for retirees is numbered. Cities and states are finding this out too with their retired civil service jobs.
If you take a look at McKee Foods, manufacturer of Little Debbie snack cakes, there are some significant differences:
They only operate three plants for their primary brands. To my knowledge, McKee has never been unionized and according to their web site they offer a 401K plan and profit sharing. Something much more common to non-unionized environments and something which lowers their legacy costs going forward. They are a profitable business model. Certainly, being non-union is not the focal point of their financial success, but it definitely adds to their bottom line and gives them a competitive edge their unionized competitors do not enjoy.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on January 12, 2012, 09:38:44 AM
These baked goods are all made by union workers...
» bimbo
» boboli
» brownberry
» EarthGrains
» Entenmann's
» francisco
» freihofer's
» marinela
» mrs baird's
» oroweat
» sara lee
» stroehmann
» thomas'
» tia rosa
They seem to be doing just fine.
"I will take 'businesses I will no longer buy from' for $100 Alex"
I think you make the point well Conan. They got outmanaged in a difficult business environment. No matter how low and simple their labor costs could be cut they aren't going to be able to compete with a more recent start up that doesn't have the same model. To blame labor as the reason for their failure as Gas did is just scapegoating.
Labor costs incurred in previous environments (pensions) that were necessary at that time, became a weight they couldn't bear. But they don't operate in a vacuum. Other companies, GM for instance, also have those heavy weights and have adapted. Some grocers faced this and simply sold their business or closed it down and reopened with new management, resigned old employees (thus eliminating higher labor costs) or found other ways to streamline. Some even paid off others to assume their previous obligations.
This is like payback for past sins. Keep in mind why many companies like McKee (whose Little Debbies are simply awful) are not unionized. They are well managed enough that a union has little reason to get any traction. That means respect for employees, competitive wages and fair treatment. Or they operate in a state, like OK, that make it difficult to do so.
Quote from: AquaMan on January 12, 2012, 11:27:01 AM
I think you make the point well Conan. They got outmanaged in a difficult business environment. No matter how low and simple their labor costs could be cut they aren't going to be able to compete with a more recent start up that doesn't have the same model. To blame labor as the reason for their failure as Gas did is just scapegoating.
Labor costs incurred in previous environments (pensions) that were necessary at that time, became a weight they couldn't bear. But they don't operate in a vacuum. Other companies, GM for instance, also have those heavy weights and have adapted. Some grocers faced this and simply sold their business or closed it down and reopened with new management, resigned old employees (thus eliminating higher labor costs) or found other ways to streamline. Some even paid off others to assume their previous obligations.
This is like payback for past sins. Keep in mind why many companies like McKee (whose Little Debbies are simply awful) are not unionized. They are well managed enough that a union has little reason to get any traction. That means respect for employees, competitive wages and fair treatment. Or they operate in a state, like OK, that make it difficult to do so.
GM didn't adapt, they bankrupted, got government loans, shafted the shareholders and vendors, and let go of a lot of union jobs. Ford is a great example of "adaptation" not GM or Chrysler. I do believe in the process that GM did shed a lot of that pension liability, though I may be slightly off on that singular point.
How well a company is managed has very little bearing on whether or not a company can be unionized or whether or not a union can gain traction. A company can simply keep a union out even if they pay slave wages. The company I used to work for had a rather large maintenance contract with the McKee plant over in Gentry, Arkansas. I'm not particularly aware that the wages were anything spectacular for line workers. The work is rather monotonous and is largely un-skilled.
They do get every Saturday off though since the McKees are Seventh Day Adventists. ;)
In my industry, it used to be heavily unionized. Now manufacturers have gotten more savvy and are moving jobs from heavily unionized states like Wisconsin or Pennsylvania to states like North Carolina, Georgia, or Tennessee where they can have all the non-union labor they want. The one company which has posted the largest gains in market share has done so by bringing in loads of guest workers from Costa Rica to their facility in Georgia. I've been told there's a trailer park located conveniently down the road where the employees are welcome to get a place at a decent rent. The company also buys steel by the train load when prices are lowest. You can pay a Costa Rican $12 an hour, share rent on a $500 a month trailer and he's living high on the hog compared to the employment picture back home. You can also sell a product at 10% to 15% less than your competitors still located in the north and be very profitable.
Seeing that many companies are simply setting up shop in China would tend to prove that transportation costs are not their major cost-center problem considering they must now ship goods 6500 miles back to Long Beach and then transport them from there unless they go through the canal up to a Gulf port or to the east coast. They get cheap labor and much fewer environmental and labor regs.
More whiny b!tching stuff from unions.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 12, 2012, 11:46:13 AM
GM didn't adapt, they bankrupted, got government loans, shafted the shareholders and vendors, and let go of a lot of union jobs. Ford is a great example of "adaptation" not GM or Chrysler. I do believe in the process that GM did shed a lot of that pension liability, though I may be slightly off on that singular point.
How well a company is managed has very little bearing on whether or not a company can be unionized or whether or not a union can gain traction. A company can simply keep a union out even if they pay slave wages. The company I used to work for had a rather large maintenance contract with the McKee plant over in Gentry, Arkansas. I'm not particularly aware that the wages were anything spectacular for line workers. The work is rather monotonous and is largely un-skilled.
They do get every Saturday off though since the McKees are Seventh Day Adventists. ;)
In my industry, it used to be heavily unionized. Now manufacturers have gotten more savvy and are moving jobs from heavily unionized states like Wisconsin or Pennsylvania to states like North Carolina, Georgia, or Tennessee where they can have all the non-union labor they want. The one company which has posted the largest gains in market share has done so by bringing in loads of guest workers from Costa Rica to their facility in Georgia. I've been told there's a trailer park located conveniently down the road where the employees are welcome to get a place at a decent rent. The company also buys steel by the train load when prices are lowest. You can pay a Costa Rican $12 an hour, share rent on a $500 a month trailer and he's living high on the hog compared to the employment picture back home. You can also sell a product at 10% to 15% less than your competitors still located in the north and be very profitable.
Seeing that many companies are simply setting up shop in China would tend to prove that transportation costs are not their major cost-center problem considering they must now ship goods 6500 miles back to Long Beach and then transport them from there unless they go through the canal up to a Gulf port or to the east coast. They get cheap labor and much fewer environmental and labor regs.
You just described adaptation by GM. The details are always different, the players change, but the process is mandatory.
As far as how and why unions form and prosper, we'll never agree. Is Arkansas a right to work state? If so that explains a lot. Nonetheless, unions aren't just about wages. You simply have no power to go up against a large employer on any issue without representation. You rely on their grace, integrity and goodwill. That vacillates wildly. For example my current employer tried to waffle out on promised salary increases after a probation period. They changed the details. Insisted we had misunderstood the rules. A savvy fellow employee checked with our (weak) union who directed him to the paragraph in our contract that spelled it out in detail. Turns out many employees had been underpaid for months. Apologies all around and checks were cut. They had no interest in answering employee complaints until that contract was consulted.
What's happening in your industry is gruesome. Is that what it takes to be a viable company in that industry? If cheap labor, fewer labor and environmental regs are what it takes to survive then we are headed to third world status.
for Aman....agree with your posts. :)
Just more of that "it's the Union's fault" bs. Have you ever noticed what the German union worker gets?
Not a mention here of how much the owners and upper management scarfed up for their own benefit along the way. We should know what types of benefits they received far beyond their base salary's. I bet they gave clients huge amounts of
twinkies gifts, trips, money, and discounts. They probably get new jobs running other baker manufacturing down the tubes.
Did some private equity group have anything to do with this along the way?
They might have been able to make a case about expenses and unions and all the other pure crap they are spewing if they hadn't done exactly this same thing back in 2004. This is their business model. Go bankrupt every 7 years and blame unions.
But then if they didn't blame the unions, they would have to accept responsibility for raping the company and leaving it to die.
Quote from: AquaMan on January 12, 2012, 01:12:24 PM
You just described adaptation by GM. The details are always different, the players change, but the process is mandatory.
As far as how and why unions form and prosper, we'll never agree. Is Arkansas a right to work state? If so that explains a lot. Nonetheless, unions aren't just about wages. You simply have no power to go up against a large employer on any issue without representation. You rely on their grace, integrity and goodwill. That vacillates wildly. For example my current employer tried to waffle out on promised salary increases after a probation period. They changed the details. Insisted we had misunderstood the rules. A savvy fellow employee checked with our (weak) union who directed him to the paragraph in our contract that spelled it out in detail. Turns out many employees had been underpaid for months. Apologies all around and checks were cut. They had no interest in answering employee complaints until that contract was consulted.
What's happening in your industry is gruesome. Is that what it takes to be a viable company in that industry? If cheap labor, fewer labor and environmental regs are what it takes to survive then we are headed to third world status.
It's either the union's fault for wanting higher wages and costlier benefits in addition to costly environmental and safety regs (which
can be a good thing) which necessarily raises the cost to produce goods in tandem with rising fuel, transportation, and raw material costs,
or it's tightass industrial and consumer type customers who demand less expensive products. Union labor is simply one added cost.
That's a debate which can rage ad infinitum. Chicken v. egg.
When customers want less expensive products, either you can figure out a way to do that by finding cheaper labor, less costly manufacturing regs, lower raw material costs, or lower fuel. Or simply let your foreign competition over-run you when your government has sold out it's own work force via a myriad of "free-trade" agreements. I really think we should tariff the smile out of goods coming from predatory manufacturing environments like China and India.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 12, 2012, 01:33:04 PM
They might have been able to make a case about expenses and unions and all the other pure crap they are spewing if they hadn't done exactly this same thing back in 2004. This is their business model. Go bankrupt every 7 years and blame unions.
But then if they didn't blame the unions, they would have to accept responsibility for raping the company and leaving it to die.
You really need to read up on the corporate history of Interstate Brands/Hostess before making inane claims like that.
So we're sure it's not a major crash of the twinky market?
Does anyone buy twinkies or strawberry quick anymore?
Quote from: Townsend on January 12, 2012, 03:46:51 PM
So we're sure it's not a major crash of the twinky market?
Does anyone buy twinkies or strawberry quick anymore?
Oh hell no.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 12, 2012, 03:47:16 PM
Oh hell no.
You killed the twinkie!
Seriously though, the company is dying because it's products are from another era, are no longer desired and the company failed to change. You might as well be talking about Kodak or Sears. It's not unions.
Last time I've seen anything about them.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 12, 2012, 03:46:48 PM
You really need to read up on the corporate history of Interstate Brands/Hostess before making inane claims like that.
Oh, yeah, I forgot the lousy management that had no clue how to respond to market forces.
Of course, having a computer leasing company as boss could certainly help in ways we can only begin to imagine...wait, what?
Can you spell "givebacks"? Like when they cashed in the pension program to pay for bad decisions.
But then it still all comes down to white bread. And the fact that their management just didn't understand the shift to whole wheat. Now they are trying to get you to believe that somehow refined white flour in Wonder Bread (only wonder is to wonder where the food value is) is the same as whole wheat. And we see how that is working for them. From number 1 to number 4.
And here is a cute little fluff piece that is mildly interesting. I thought it was interesting how with the advent of white bread, one of the consequences of removing all nutrition from the flour was the increase in certain nutrition related diseases, so they did start to "enrich" the stuff with vitamin additives to fight the incidence of beriberi and pellagra. Yes, I realize the Wonder by itself may not have been the only cause - there was "refinement" happening across the board to the food supply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Bread
Tulsa Hostess Workers Join Nationwide Strikehttp://www.newson6.com/story/20075806/tulsa-hostess-workers-join-nationwide-strike (http://www.newson6.com/story/20075806/tulsa-hostess-workers-join-nationwide-strike)
QuoteTULSA, Oklahoma - Tulsa workers are joining thousands of other Hostess employees across the nation in a strike this evening.
Their union represents more than 6,000 employees around the country.
Last week, they rejected a proposed contract by 92 percent that they say would mean pay and benefit cuts.
Hostess says if they don't come to an agreement soon, they'll lay off most of its 18,000 employees and shut down the company.
Quote from: Townsend on November 12, 2012, 04:17:49 PM
Tulsa Hostess Workers Join Nationwide Strike
http://www.newson6.com/story/20075806/tulsa-hostess-workers-join-nationwide-strike (http://www.newson6.com/story/20075806/tulsa-hostess-workers-join-nationwide-strike)
Saw them out front of the Wonder Bread factory on 11th on my way in this morning. Was going to ask but don't need to now. Signs essentially say "Say NO to pay cuts". Appeared to be about thirty people.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 12, 2012, 09:33:03 AM
Expensive labor. . .bad. Inexpensive cash flow. . .good.
;D
Variation on the theme....
To Progressives, low wages are the problem...to Murdochians, low wages are the solution. (See "expensive labor" above.)
Quote from: Hoss on November 12, 2012, 04:22:34 PM
Saw them out front of the Wonder Bread factory on 11th on my way in this morning. Was going to ask but don't need to now. Signs essentially say "Say NO to pay cuts". Appeared to be about thirty people.
Did they look like employees, or homeless stand-ins hired by a union?
Looks like I will be heading over to the Hostess shop soon and drop some money. And I do not even eat that stuff.
Done!
Union wins. 18,500 to be unemployed.
"We deeply regret the necessity of today's decision, but we do not have the financial resources to weather an extended nationwide strike," said Gregory F. Rayburn, chief executive officer. "Hostess Brands will move promptly to lay off most of its 18,500-member workforce and focus on selling its assets to the highest bidders."
Read more: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/20115859/hostess-going-out-of-business-nearly-18000-to-be-laid-off#ixzz2COJNUGe6
(http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2010/2/10/129102744565144511.jpg)
Yes, the unions are going to be real happy about all the money they're getting stiffed. And they're the ones that made the decision to load the company down with debt, too. Funny how management bears no responsibility for the situation in your mind.
Anyone want to speculate about Hostess becoming a brand new maquiladora just across the border? Their US workers wouldn't accept Mexican wages and benefits, but I'll bet real Mexicans will.
Hostess was taken over by venture capital firms Silver Point Capital and Monarch Alternative Capital.
They are closing the company and selling off the assets.
Got to love the venture capitalists.
But the name is still worth something, Michael, just like the Schwinn name was worth purchasing and applying to some cheaply made imports. I wouldn't expect 'Hostess' to go away.
They will be sold and the factories opened with minimum wage jobs.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 16, 2012, 07:57:23 AM
Hostess was taken over by venture capital firms Silver Point Capital and Monarch Alternative Capital.
They are closing the company and selling off the assets.
Got to love the venture capitalists.
Cue erfzombie in 3...2...1
Probably Bush's fault.
Quote from: Ed W on November 16, 2012, 08:03:57 AM
But the name is still worth something, Michael, just like the Schwinn name was worth purchasing and applying to some cheaply made imports. I wouldn't expect 'Hostess' to go away.
I'm hearing rumblings of Morita (sp?) stepping in.
Cue stupid "Happy Days" references in 3...2....1
They interviewed an employee here in Tulsa on the radio this morning and he wasn't upset over being unemployed, he said the new deal was so bad that employees felt better off finding another job.
Quote from: swake on November 16, 2012, 08:29:04 AM
They interviewed an employee here in Tulsa on the radio this morning and he wasn't upset over being unemployed, he said the new deal was so bad that employees felt better off finding another job.
I hope they are able to. In Tulsa that shouldn't be too hard. Other cities, probably not as easy to find something similar. I'm curious what pay range these jobs were in, does anyone know? The sticky issue seems to be the 8% pay cut and 30% cut in benefits.
U/E pays what, 75% of wages up to a certain amount? Looks like a lot of those folks just got a 25% pay cut and no benefits.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Hostess-Brands-Salary-E329177_P2.htm (http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Hostess-Brands-Salary-E329177_P2.htm)
Line workers are listed at $38K to $41K
$41K is about $19 per hour.
19.00 An hour to bake cupcakes...not a bad gig, I think they will see the grass isn't greener on the other side...
Quote from: carltonplace on November 16, 2012, 09:20:57 AM
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Hostess-Brands-Salary-E329177_P2.htm (http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Hostess-Brands-Salary-E329177_P2.htm)
Line workers are listed at $38K to $41K
$41K is about $19 per hour.
Not bad considering it's not highly skilled labor. I sincerely hope they've got some skill sets which will apply elsewhere. Not too much demand for re-loading bread bagging machines or re-stocking a few hundred pounds of yeast.
Will be interesting to see how big a bonus Greg Rayburn gets for running the company into the ground.
All those bakeries listed have overcapacity, it's boils down to what you can do with that room for expansion/new products/new markets/innovation, etc.
Obviously, Rayburn and his cronies had no clue.
It always is a mild source of amazement around here that the guys who are SO into the idea of growing companies, growing jobs, growing this, that, and the other are also the ones who seem to have this myopic view that the only way to accomplish that is to get another tax cut. Here is an industry, along with a LOT of them in this country that have significant overcapacity, and the only viable solution is to break up the company and sell the pieces. Harvard School of Business right down the line.
It is the lazy CEO way out. Actual thought and doing any kind of work themselves to come up with ways to utilize that capacity is way harder that selling and writing themselves a big bonus check. Kind of like when a company does a stock buyback. It is an admission that management has no clue about how to manage. The best use of that money is to sit on it and do nothing - NO innovation. No product development. No market expansion. No anything that requires a thought process. And as a nod to those Harvard MBA Cultists - yeah, sometimes the price of the stock IS low enough that it can be the best investment at that time - which brings us to the NEXT failing of management - their performance is SO bad that the stock price is in the toilet bad enough to make it a good deal for the company to buy. Wow... I mean just....WOW!
And yeah...I have a list of product development ideas that could utilize that kind of opportunity...and past record of coming up with stuff that is (still) successful in the market - to the tune of several $ millions per year over several products. What a horrendously lost opportunity there. Good work Greg Rayburn! Enjoy the beach!!
TW is tweeting that the sign carriers are still there.
Never Forget
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/189764_4948469235369_1506890150_n.jpg)
Bought two boxes of Hostess Cupcakes at Walmart Wednesday...for old times sake.
Quote from: Townsend on November 16, 2012, 11:47:55 AM
Never Forget
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/189764_4948469235369_1506890150_n.jpg)
Good riddance.
Quote from: Townsend on November 16, 2012, 12:39:23 PM
They'll be back. "Hecho en Mexico"
Hostess Cupcakes by Bimbo
Bimbo moving into the US more than anything is what killed Hostess, not Unions, and I will predict Bimbo will buy the brands. Likely they will move some part of the manufacturing to Mexico.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 16, 2012, 11:49:50 AM
Good riddance.
There's something addictive about Cherry Sweet Rolls. or at least there was when I was 16. ;)
I may drive the Hostess plant to laugh, um, shop at the store. Not really, just to maybe find out if Bain or Romney is to blame....
(http://christopherfountain.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/twinkies.jpg)
Quote from: guido911 on November 16, 2012, 01:33:44 PM
I may drive the Hostess plant to laugh, um, shop at the store. Not really, just to maybe find out if Bain or Romney is to blame....
Silver Point Capital and Monarch Alternative Capital now run Hostess.
Silver Point Capital gave their Hostess CEO a $2 million salary and gave the executives an 80% bonus last year. They handled negotiations with the union demanding a 25% pay cut or they would close the plant.
No, Bain or Romney are not part of the blame. But venture capitalists like them are part of the blame for the plant closing.
Free Market:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=twinkies (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=twinkies)
Quote from: RecycleMichael on November 16, 2012, 02:06:35 PM
Silver Point Capital and Monarch Alternative Capital now run Hostess.
It would be interesting to know how much they got out of Hostess in fees and interest since the 2009 bankruptcy. It strikes me as odd that a company with no way of paying existing debt and not a lot of fat to cut in the workforce would accept $30 million in DIP financing at 15% interest. Just wait, and you'll see the corporate officers who took the $1 pay cut get paid millions in the liquidation while stores that Hostess owes product to will get nothing.
Seems like they should have taken Bimbo offer back in 2007 or whenever that was. No, I take that back, it's all the unions' fault.
Quote from: nathanm on November 16, 2012, 02:35:58 PM
Seems like they should have taken Bimbo offer back in 2007 or whenever that was. No, I take that back, it's all the unions' fault.
I think there were issues with Mexican companies giving the US workers jobs.
So, if the VC firm hadn't been involved in the first place, then these workers might have lost their jobs a few years ago. Instead, they enjoyed a few more years employment.
FWIW, looks like we will get stiffed in a $6000+ tab they owe us for some recent work at their Tulsa facility. I believe we also wrote off about $2K a few years back according to our office manager. For some reason no one thought to put them on COD after getting hosed the first time.
QuoteSo we're sure it's not a major crash of the twinky market?
Does anyone buy twinkies or strawberry quick anymore?
I haven't in years. Hostess products don't taste as good as they did 20 years ago imo. I buy Little Debbie snacks and starting to get into Tastykake stuff. Yummy.
Man I wish I had a Higher Education, Three piece suit and no conscience. :(
Quote from: Conan71 on November 16, 2012, 02:42:27 PM
So, if the VC firm hadn't been involved in the first place, then these workers might have lost their jobs a few years ago. Instead, they enjoyed a few more years employment.
FWIW, looks like we will get stiffed in a $6000+ tab they owe us for some recent work at their Tulsa facility. I believe we also wrote off about $2K a few years back according to our office manager. For some reason no one thought to put them on COD after getting hosed the first time.
The VCs also allowed their venders and retailers to enjoy a couple more years of profit from their products. Children and 40 year old unemployed stoned guys living in mom's basement staring at faded Obama "HOPE" posters also enjoyed a couple more years of ho-hos. Tulsa got a couple more years of tax revenue to support its failing schools, and the wheat farmers and chemists that work together to produce the glowing sludge that becomes Twinkie dough were afforded a few more loving moments. All because some evil Vulture Capitalist was willing to put some faith and money in a horribly mismanaged company.
Dang it! I told myself I wouldn't cry. :'(
Quote from: Townsend on November 16, 2012, 11:40:48 AM
TW is tweeting that the sign carriers are still there.
Still there. Bought some junk food from the store. The staff would not allow pictures to be taken inside the store for some bizarre reason. My check out lady was not a happy person.
Quote from: guido911 on November 16, 2012, 04:09:53 PM
Still there. Bought some junk food from the store. The staff would not allow pictures to be taken inside the store for some bizarre reason. My check out lady was not a happy person.
I just listened to them being interviewed, hopeful of a purchase by a dreamy company who would offer them something better. It was a little sad.
Perhaps the Union will buy it and run it?
Quote from: Gaspar on November 16, 2012, 04:17:16 PM
Perhaps the Union will buy it and run it?
They did buy part of it during the last bankruptcy by exchanging (pension) debt for equity.
Quote from: nathanm on November 16, 2012, 04:24:03 PM
They did buy part of it during the last bankruptcy by exchanging (pension) debt for equity.
And now that equity will be sold for pennies on the dollar.
Quote from: guido911 on November 16, 2012, 04:09:53 PM
Still there. Bought some junk food from the store.
They should stay good for at least 100 years. I wonder if you could use Ding Dongs as barter material during the zombie apocalypse?
Quote from: DolfanBob on November 16, 2012, 03:04:15 PM
Man I wish I had a Higher Education, Three piece suit and no conscience. :(
Here's higher education benefits for ya:
Quote from: Conan71 on November 16, 2012, 04:32:27 PM
And now that equity will be sold for pennies on the dollar.
Likely nothing at all now that it's a Chapter 7 case. The DIP lender gets first dibs, then (likely) the executives, then the secured creditors and well, they don't seem to think there's enough assets in the business to even get to the end of that list. I have little doubt that the PE funds have significant secured debt holdings (that they probably did buy for pennies on the dollar) over and above their equity stakes.
If your company doesn't get its $6000, you can be sure that equity holders aren't getting anything for their equity stake.
Quote from: bmuscotty on November 16, 2012, 02:58:07 PM
I haven't in years. Hostess products don't taste as good as they did 20 years ago imo. I buy Little Debbie snacks and starting to get into Tastykake stuff. Yummy.
Tastykake has been in the Philadelphia, PA area for a long time. I always liked the Butterscotch Krimpets. I hope the 2011 "merger" didn't change them.
http://www.tastykake.com/aboutus/
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 16, 2012, 05:18:21 PM
Tastykake has been in the Philadelphia, PA area for a long time. I always liked the Butterscotch Krimpets. I hope the 2011 "merger" didn't change them.
http://www.tastykake.com/aboutus/
Where do you find Tastykake around here? When I lived in PA, they were rare west of the Alleghenys.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/59065_10151315904196153_630530638_n.png)
Quote from: Ed W on November 16, 2012, 07:46:48 PM
Where do you find Tastykake around here? When I lived in PA, they were rare west of the Alleghenys.
I saw (and bought a few) in WalMart. It may have been a market trial. I haven't looked lately. They had Butterscotch Krimpets and a few others but I don't remember which others. It was probably 6 months ago.
Hey, are Twinkies collector items now? What's the best method of preserving the gooey cakes?
St. Louis Mayor told months ago the Hostess plant would close.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/11/13/slay-i-was-told-months-ago-about-hostess-closure/
Quote from: Teatownclown on November 17, 2012, 01:01:34 AM
Hey, are Twinkies collector items now? What's the best method of preserving the gooey cakes?
You don't need to. They have a shelf life of 100 years. Or is that a half-life?
Quote from: Conan71 on November 17, 2012, 10:27:09 AM
You don't need to. They have a shelf life of 100 years. Or is that a half-life?
Don't you find it odd that pot gets legalized and within 10 days these products disappear? My guess is that some corporate raider already has the formulas under lock and key....and he resides in Washington or Colorado....
Quote from: Conan71 on November 17, 2012, 10:27:09 AM
You don't need to. They have a shelf life of 100 years. Or is that a half-life?
I listened to a piece on NPR with a 'modern' archaeologist who had excavated some Twinkies from a landfill dating to the 1950s. She said they looked edible.
My Hawaiian shirts will be unearthed someday, and the digger will probably make some disparaging comments about my abysmal taste.
Quote from: Teatownclown on November 17, 2012, 01:01:34 AM
Hey, are Twinkies collector items now? What's the best method of preserving the gooey cakes?
Probably your skull....As they are in no danger in there....
Quote from: Teatownclown on November 17, 2012, 01:16:51 PM
Don't you find it odd that pot gets legalized and within 10 days these products disappear? My guess is that some corporate raider already has the formulas under lock and key....and he resides in Washington or Colorado....
LOLZ!
Reasors has tastycakes
I bought an assortment of soon-to-be-gone names myself, although I'm sure we'll be able to buy "Kraft" Twinkies in 6 months or so.
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 17, 2012, 08:18:48 PM
I'm sure we'll be able to buy "Kraft" Twinkies in 6 months or so.
But why would anyone want to?
Am I the only one who thinks Twinkies suck?
I was always a Raspberry Zinger guy.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 17, 2012, 10:06:55 PM
But why would anyone want to?
Am I the only one who thinks Twinkies suck?
I was always a Raspberry Zinger guy.
I actually liked the Vanilla Zingers better. I had one yesterday, bought it from the QT up on Pine/Mingo. Weren't many Hostess items left.
My stomach hated me for it, but I promised it I would never do it again. ;D
I like these better than Twinkies. First, they're chocolate, and they're so sweet they make your teeth hurt. Perfect with a cup of black coffee for balance.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8199/8195434289_7631c75b28.jpg)
I haven't bought any Hostess products in years. I feel for all the folks
Who have lost their jobs
Feel for the folks that lost their jobs....The dumbasses gave them up.....!!!!
Quote from: joiei on November 18, 2012, 09:01:38 AM
I haven't bought any Hostess products in years.
So it's all your fault. ;D
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/18/1162786/-Inside-the-Hostess-Bankery#
QuoteRemember how I said I made $48,000 in 2005 and $34,000 last year? I would make $25,000 in 5 years if I took their offer.
It will be hard to replace the job I had, but it will be easy to replace the job they were trying to give me.
That $3+ per hour they steal totaled $50 million last year that they never paid us. They sold $2.5 BILLION in product last year. If they can't make this profitable without stealing my money then good riddance.
Product obsolescence, bad union bosses, and crooked execs destroyed this company. I believe in tomorrow and the resurrection of twinkie.
The workers are pawns in this game between Union Bosses and Executives.
Quote from: Breadburner on November 18, 2012, 09:30:44 AM
Feel for the folks that lost their jobs....The dumbasses gave them up.....!!!!
Yeah, they're such idiots for protecting what pensions they had left. The company stopped contributing to the pension a couple of years ago (in violating of the CBA), saving itself some $160 million in the meantime. Still they lost money and added debt. The unions have given and given to this company and management has continued to run it into the ground. Why should the workers agree to the company converting pension obligations to equity when that puts them at a disadvantage after the inevitable bankruptcy?
I have little doubt that a management team that was more interested in keeping the company going than looting it could have kept it afloat.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/12767_10151317072356153_368892367_n.png)
A company making the same exact products for 50 years while every other company has evolved helps to make a company irrelevant.
Quote from: nathanm on November 18, 2012, 02:33:19 PM
Yeah, they're such idiots for protecting what pensions they had left. The company stopped contributing to the pension a couple of years ago (in violating of the CBA), saving itself some $160 million in the meantime. Still they lost money and added debt. The unions have given and given to this company and management has continued to run it into the ground. Why should the workers agree to the company converting pension obligations to equity when that puts them at a disadvantage after the inevitable bankruptcy?
I have little doubt that a management team that was more interested in keeping the company going than looting it could have kept it afloat.
What do they have now.....??
Quote from: Breadburner on November 19, 2012, 01:52:59 AM
What do they have now.....??
A somewhat-protected pension fund
Hostess sold $68M in Twinkies so far this year. It won't be long before someone else buys the product family and reopens some of the factories. Johnson and Johnson will be selling combination twinkie snack cakes and sponge mops soon.
Hopefully Tulsa will reopen.
Quote from: Ed W on November 18, 2012, 08:01:14 AM
I like these better than Twinkies. First, they're chocolate, and they're so sweet they make your teeth hurt. Perfect with a cup of black coffee for balance.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8199/8195434289_7631c75b28.jpg)
I'm fairly certain that Hostess also makes Dolly Madison snacks.
(http://tallulahbankhead.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/hostess-zinger1.jpg)
Quote from: carltonplace on November 19, 2012, 08:17:12 AM
I'm fairly certain that Hostess also makes Dolly Madison snacks.
(http://tallulahbankhead.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/hostess-zinger1.jpg)
Yup. Grabbed a box of Raspberry Coconut Zingers myself.
QuoteWhere do you find Tastykake around here? When I lived in PA, they were rare west of the Alleghenys.
I have found them at Wal Mart and Target. The new chocolate ones with the Reese's peanut butter in them are awsome.
Tastykakes can also be found on the dessert menu at Phat Phillies.
And the purchasing rumors begin!
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/11/twinkies-may-find-buyer-hostess-ceo-says/
Quote from: Hoss on November 19, 2012, 12:48:26 PM
And the purchasing rumors begin!
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/11/twinkies-may-find-buyer-hostess-ceo-says/
Bimbo is the best fit. Would allow them to spread across the U.S. market and likely the best candidate to re-open the bakeries.
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 19, 2012, 01:02:20 PM
Bimbo is the best fit. Would allow them to spread across the U.S. market and likely the best candidate to re-open the bakeries.
More of, You Speak-A-Spanish?
Quote from: DolfanBob on November 19, 2012, 01:05:26 PM
More of, You Speak-A-Spanish?
Tulsa could officially say they have Bimbos on 11th Street?
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 19, 2012, 01:07:58 PM
Tulsa could officially say they have Bimbos on 11th Street?
I think they've been saying that for years...
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 19, 2012, 01:07:58 PM
Tulsa could officially say they have Bimbos on 11th Street?
You could go there dressed like Wayne Brady and choke all the workers.
Quote from: carltonplace on November 19, 2012, 08:13:48 AM
Johnson and Johnson will be selling combination twinkie snack cakes and sponge mops soon.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/shimmer-floor-wax/1056743/
Embargo off!
They're going to mediation!
(http://www.cultureblues.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/master-blaster.jpg)
Hold your Twinkies...there's more coming!
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/judge-orders-hostess-union-to-mediation-liquidation-halted-for-now
Now a PE firm is interested in purchasing them. I don't know if that's any better than their current situation...I've been down that route, although the PE firm that bought us didn't have to deal with unions.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/19/hostess-sun-buyout/
Alright, let's get back to reality on this whole PE bashing soiree. Yes PE firms now own Hostess. Yes, they may or may not make some money. Keep in mind only the best of the best PE firms (top quartile) can consistently beat the S&P 500 index. In this case, if it weren't for PE firms, Hostess would have more than likely been defunct years ago.
For some good commentary on what has been happenning, I'd recommend reading the following. It was actually written in July, but gives a great rundown of the players and goings on over the years at a company that has been in this position before.
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/
Quote from: Hoss on November 19, 2012, 03:06:17 PM
I've been down that route, although the PE firm that bought us didn't have to deal with unions.
They've been down that road, too. Look how well it worked out for them. I guess if something doesn't work, try the same thing again, only try harder this time.
"see if you can guess what I am?"
Quote from: Gaspar on November 19, 2012, 02:21:22 PM
Embargo off!
They're going to mediation!
The judge forced them to mediation. They were in court asking for approval to pay management bonuses.
Quote from: carltonplace on November 20, 2012, 07:48:39 AM
The judge forced them to mediation. They were in court asking for approval to pay management bonuses.
Yeah capitalism.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 16, 2012, 04:33:23 PM
They should stay good for at least 100 years. I wonder if you could use Ding Dongs as barter material during the zombie apocalypse?
Don't worry, when the zombies come, you, Gas, and Gweed will all be okay, because zombies eat brains. ;D
Quote from: TulsaRufnex on November 20, 2012, 03:58:54 PM
Don't worry, when the zombies come, you, Gas, and Gweed will all be okay, because zombies eat brains. ;D
You realize that the word "zombie" is a manner of disguising an epidemic and as a result we will see many new bacteria and plagues and even more mental illness from the environmental changes? Many scientists believe with all the changes in weather monstrous decimation of yields and health happen.
I'm trying to come up with a thread title...Zombie is code for "scary" ...may have to wait until after Dec. 21st....
Quote from: carltonplace on November 20, 2012, 07:48:39 AM
The judge forced them to mediation. They were in court asking for approval to pay management bonuses.
That is what class warfare is really all about in this country. As everyone knows, but the deflectionists try to deflect.
Once again goes to comments I have made in the past about transfer of ownership - like a family business cashing out. In this case, the PE cashing out. Let them do so, and tax the stuffing out of it. Or sell to an employee stock ownership plan and give them a tax break. Under no circumstance let management benefit by huge bonuses for its failure. This PE group has been milking Twinkies hard for years, now want to sell of the dried out husk of what's left. Leaving 18,000 other people who have worked for that company trying to make it a success.
It is a good old fashioned, down home, tent revival, Bible thumping, Old Testament style abomination!
And by the way - that "milking" was to the tune of over $1 billion in debt they saddled the company with. Gee...wonder where that money went? Oh, yeah...bonuses to management for "successful" business operation.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/283266_560568957305895_1400482576_n.jpg)
Quote from: guido911 on November 20, 2012, 03:34:54 PM
Yeah capitalism.
Capitalism sure, but not smart capitalism. They can't afford to pay basic payroll but they want approval to pay bonuses to management.
Quote from: guido911 on November 20, 2012, 03:34:54 PM
Yeah capitalism.
Not even distantly related to capitalism.
Read Peter Drucker if you want to know what capitalism is all about. Or SHOULD be.
And management.
Nightly News tweet:
BREAKING: Judge approves Hostess bonus payout plan; 19 Hostess senior executives in line for up to $1.8M in bonuses
Another tweet:
BREAKING: Judge approves Hostess shutdown plan on a final basis; judge say no evidence to support a denial of wind-down plan
It isn't a traditional bonus... It's an incentive to stay around and get the most out of selling the brand name and assets.
Paying 1.8 million is nothing when you can sell the name and assets worth an estimated $2.3 billion to $2.4 billion.
"The money is intended as an incentive for 19 top-level managers to remain with the Twinkies and Ding Dongs maker to oversee its liquidation.
The payouts will be granted only if managers "achieve a set of specific tasks and goals within a specified time frame that are designed to speed and lower the cost of the wind-down,""
Quote from: TeeDub on November 29, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
It isn't a traditional bonus... It's an incentive to stay around and get the most out of selling the brand name and assets.
Paying 1.8 million is nothing when you can sell the name and assets worth an estimated $2.3 billion to $2.4 billion.
"The money is intended as an incentive for 19 top-level managers to remain with the Twinkies and Ding Dongs maker to oversee its liquidation.
The payouts will be granted only if managers "achieve a set of specific tasks and goals within a specified time frame that are designed to speed and lower the cost of the wind-down,""
$1.8 Million/ 19 = $94,736.84 each.
I would want at least $100,000.01 ;D
OR...
It could pay the direct salary (no benefits or company part of payroll tax) of 60 employees at $30,000/yr for one year.
Quote from: TeeDub on November 29, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
It isn't a traditional bonus... It's an incentive to stay around and get the most out of selling the brand name and assets.
Paying 1.8 million is nothing when you can sell the name and assets worth an estimated $2.3 billion to $2.4 billion.
"The money is intended as an incentive for 19 top-level managers to remain with the Twinkies and Ding Dongs maker to oversee its liquidation.
The payouts will be granted only if managers "achieve a set of specific tasks and goals within a specified time frame that are designed to speed and lower the cost of the wind-down,""
That doesn't sell ad time/space. We need the outrage or we don't follow the story.
Quote from: TeeDub on November 29, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
It isn't a traditional bonus... It's an incentive to stay around and get the most out of selling the brand name and assets.
Paying 1.8 million is nothing when you can sell the name and assets worth an estimated $2.3 billion to $2.4 billion.
"The money is intended as an incentive for 19 top-level managers to remain with the Twinkies and Ding Dongs maker to oversee its liquidation.
The payouts will be granted only if managers "achieve a set of specific tasks and goals within a specified time frame that are designed to speed and lower the cost of the wind-down,""
They were first asking for $300 million. That is also in addition to all the hundreds of millions they paid out in the past as "bonuses/options/etc".
But, yeah...no doubt it was the unions... not.
Quote from: TeeDub on November 29, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
It isn't a traditional bonus... It's an incentive to stay around and get the most out of selling the brand name and assets.
I always found the people who have proven themselves lacking at getting the best value out of a company to be the perfect fit for getting the best value out of a company.
Quote from: nathanm on November 30, 2012, 01:38:02 PM
I always found the people who have proven themselves lacking at getting the best value out of a company to be the perfect fit for getting the best value out of a company.
Works every time, doesn't it? GM, Chrysler, Delta Airlines, Continental...
And lest we forget history - check out 'Chainsaw Al' and his stellar work at Scott Paper....
Ruthless execs. More evidence that it's not totally the Union's fault. The Union's always the scapegoat for faltering business. The liability of continuing operations must have far exceeded the benefits. They couldn't print money so they bailed.
Hostess Maneuver Deprived Pension
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostess-maneuver-deprived-pension-051400720.html
"It's what lawyers call betrayal without remedy," said James P. Baker, a partner at Baker & McKenzie LLP who specializes in employee benefits and isn't involved in the Hostess case. "It's sad, but that stuff does happen, unfortunately."
The Department of Labor has taken the position in one local case I was involved in that unpaid but vested pension benefits belong to the employee, whether the money is paid by the employer or withheld from employee wages, so even if they have remained in the possession of the employer, the employer holds those funds in trust and appropriation of the funds for the employer's purpose is embezzlement. If in this case any vested pension benefits were used to pay for operations, that is not a breach without a remedy. Those who had authority can go to prison. The unvested portion is another story, which is probably what they're talking about.
Quote from: Teatownclown on December 10, 2012, 06:27:38 PM
Ruthless execs. More evidence that it's not totally the Union's fault. The Union's always the scapegoat for faltering business. The liability of continuing operations must have far exceeded the benefits. They couldn't print money so they bailed.
Hostess Maneuver Deprived Pension
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostess-maneuver-deprived-pension-051400720.html
"It's what lawyers call betrayal without remedy," said James P. Baker, a partner at Baker & McKenzie LLP who specializes in employee benefits and isn't involved in the Hostess case. "It's sad, but that stuff does happen, unfortunately."
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/598596_505683372786866_1158491448_n.jpg)
Quote from: cynical on December 11, 2012, 12:21:23 PM
The Department of Labor has taken the position in one local case I was involved in that unpaid but vested pension benefits belong to the employee, whether the money is paid by the employer or withheld from employee wages, so even if they have remained in the possession of the employer, the employer holds those funds in trust and appropriation of the funds for the employer's purpose is embezzlement. If in this case any vested pension benefits were used to pay for operations, that is not a breach without a remedy. Those who had authority can go to prison. The unvested portion is another story, which is probably what they're talking about.
... it's still scary though... I mean, for a relatively new employee, you're taking a job in which you sign paperwork for terms of 401k and pension. If you quit or are laid off or fired, you will be penalized/taxed unless you transfer the funds to another 401k or pension plan... let's say you've worked at Hostess for 3 years, and are mmmm.... 60% vested.
Vested in what? The Feds are gonna want their tax money if upper management decided to put your pension elsewhere, knowing you'd never be fully vested because the company is going to be bankrupt or sold.... oh well....
CEO Pay Grew 127 Times Faster Than Worker Pay Over Last 30 Years: Study http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/ceo-pay-worker-pay_n_1471685.html
QuoteAmerican CEOs saw their pay spike 15 percent last year, after a 28 percent pay rise the year before, according to a report by GMI Ratings cited by The Guardian. Meanwhile, workers saw their inflation-adjusted wages fall 2 percent in 2011, according to the Labor Department.
That's in line with a trend that dates back three decades. CEO pay spiked 725 percent between 1978 and 2011, while worker pay rose just 5.7 percent, according to a study by the Economic Policy Institute released on Wednesday. That means CEO pay grew 127 times faster than worker pay.
Income inequality between CEOs and workers has consequently exploded, with CEOs last year earning 209.4 times more than workers, compared to just 26.5 times more in 1978 -- meaning CEOs are taking home a larger percentage of company gains.
That trend comes despite workers nearly doubling their productivity during the same time period, when compensation barely rose. Worker productivity spiked 93 percent between 1978 and 2011 on a per-hour basis, and 85 percent on a per-person basis, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.
---yeah, it's those lazy factory workers' faults... 8)
There is a remedy to the corruption inherent in those running dog capitalist pigs, comrade.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxYjv_o0-IY8QRsauglNyUpiPoietRsJhGH-FhqAJjaWrE5sVs)
Quote from: TulsaRufnex on December 12, 2012, 02:48:59 PM
... it's still scary though... I mean, for a relatively new employee, you're taking a job in which you sign paperwork for terms of 401k and pension. If you quit or are laid off or fired, you will be penalized/taxed unless you transfer the funds to another 401k or pension plan... let's say you've worked at Hostess for 3 years, and are mmmm.... 60% vested.
Vested in what? The Feds are gonna want their tax money if upper management decided to put your pension elsewhere, knowing you'd never be fully vested because the company is going to be bankrupt or sold.... oh well....
CEO Pay Grew 127 Times Faster Than Worker Pay Over Last 30 Years: Study
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/ceo-pay-worker-pay_n_1471685.html
---yeah, it's those lazy factory workers' faults... 8)
The IRS does not tax pension money that the employee never possesses. Misappropriated pension funds are not taxable income, at least to the employee.
When I refer to "vested" benefits, I refer to benefits that belong to the employee ERISA permits private employers to treat retirement benefits, whether in a defined benefit plan or in a defined contribution plan, as not vested for a period of up to five years after the benefit was earned. Think of it as a retention plan. When an employee leaves, he/she can retain any vested pension benefits earned, but will lose any unvested benefits, less any employee contribution.
Misappropriating vested benefits is a very big deal.
http://www.dol.gov/compliance/laws/comp-erisa.htm#.UMos3-Q0WSo
another lawyers wet dream.....
just the depositions will take two years if not longer.
http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/twinkie-ceo-admits-company-took-employees-pensions-and-put-it
Quote from: Ed W on December 12, 2012, 06:40:34 PM
There is a remedy to the corruption inherent in those running dog capitalist pigs, comrade.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxYjv_o0-IY8QRsauglNyUpiPoietRsJhGH-FhqAJjaWrE5sVs)
Yes, comrade!.... 8)
So, this is what's wrong with Amerika. The Unions got stomped, the execs took the advantage, and now the new owners will make the bread:
Wal-Mart, Kroger among Hostess bidders: report
http://news.yahoo.com/wal-mart-kroger-among-hostess-bidders-report-210651904--sector.html
so obvious....
you who condemn the workers are pawns as well.....
Wonder Bread Saved As Flowers Foods Buys Hostess Brands For $360 Millionhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/wonder-bread-hostess_n_2774048.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/wonder-bread-hostess_n_2774048.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003)
Quote(Reuters) - Flowers Foods Inc is set to buy Hostess bread brands including Wonder bread for $360 million after no other bidder stepped up to make a competing offer, a source familiar with the matter said on Wednesday.
The bankrupt bakery company was set to run an auction on Thursday for the brands, which also include Butternut, Home Pride, Merita and Nature's Pride, but there will be no auction since there were no other bids, the source said.
There will be an auction for the Beefsteak brand, for which Flowers bid $30 million, since Hostess received a higher bid from Mexico's Grupo Bimbo, said the source, who declined to be named as the process is private.
The deal with Flowers is still subject to approval by a bankruptcy court.
Flowers agreed in January to be the "stalking horse" bidder, which set a floor for the bidding and was subject to a court-supervised auction.
Hostess declined to comment. Flowers and Bimbo were not immediately available to comment.
QuoteFlowers and Bimbo were not immediately available to comment.
I don't think we've seen "Flowers" and "Bimbo" in the same sentence since the Clinton years.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 27, 2013, 10:54:57 AM
I don't think we've seen "Flowers" and "Bimbo" in the same sentence since the Clinton years.
(http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/gennifer1.jpg)
Quote from: Townsend on February 27, 2013, 11:01:47 AM
(http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/gennifer1.jpg)
Oh My! 360 Million? 40 or 50 Million maybe. ;D
Quote from: Townsend on February 27, 2013, 11:01:47 AM
(http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/gennifer1.jpg)
Did you happen to see the original source for that photo? She had on beaver skin panties. ;D
Twinkies are coming back. The unions? Not so much.
http://gma.yahoo.com/twinkies-return-hostess-unions-wont-030833930--abc-news-money.html
So much for the Tulsa bakery too.
Quote from: DolfanBob on April 26, 2013, 04:11:20 PM
So much for the Tulsa bakery too.
The unions won I guess. Twinkies management is out in Tulsa.
Chocodiles are back
Just something to think about:
Quote"Bottom line is the United States is making a major and long-term investment in Africa's progress," he said, adding that tens of thousands Americans jobs "are supported every time we expand trade with Africa."
He noted that progress will need to happen within Africa and stressed the importance of the rule of law, good governance, agriculture, and a good health system.
"Those things matter even more, because people should be able to start a business and ship their goods without having to pay a bribe or hire someone's cousin," he said, noting that conflict is also an impediment to progress.
Emphasis added
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/05/Obama-Internet-Is-so-Powerful-Because-It-Is-Open
Obama complaining about what is common practice among his union constituency?
Quote from: Townsend on July 10, 2014, 09:00:23 AM
Chocodiles are back
They are Snack size though... wth
Bought a loaf of Wonder bread. It was stale. There, now, why unions can be jackasses.
http://deadline.com/2014/08/padma-lakshmi-boston-teamsters-attack-top-chef-820137/
Quote from: guido911 on August 21, 2014, 10:14:33 PM
Bought a loaf of Wonder bread. It was stale. There, now, why unions can be jackasses.
http://deadline.com/2014/08/padma-lakshmi-boston-teamsters-attack-top-chef-820137/
Shoulda looked closer for a fresh loaf. And shoulda never bought white bread to start with!!
Just finished the last Hostess Cupcake this evening. Guess I have a grocery store event in my future tomorrow! May get some Twinkies, too!! They have chocolate now!
Quote from: guido911 on August 21, 2014, 10:46:31 PM
Ya think?
If ya get a loaf of stale bread, stick it in the fridge (if not moldy) and use it for making dressing. You do cook at the holidays don't you??
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on August 22, 2014, 11:28:55 AM
If ya get a loaf of stale bread, stick it in the fridge (if not moldy) and use it for making dressing. You do cook at the holidays don't you??
Or croutons.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 22, 2014, 11:29:33 AM
Or croutons.
But I wanted to make a sandwich at the moment I opened that loaf... (using my best whiny liberal voice)
Quote from: guido911 on August 22, 2014, 01:53:37 PM
But I wanted to make a sandwich at the moment I opened that loaf... (using my best whiny liberal voice)
Well then have a crouton sandwich and love it beotch!! ;D
Quote from: guido911 on August 22, 2014, 01:53:37 PM
But I wanted to make a sandwich at the moment I opened that loaf... (using my best whiny liberal voice)
Always buy two loaves at a time. Put one in the freezer, so if the first is stale, pull out the frozen, run it through the toaster and make every sandwich better!!
Quote from: Conan71 on August 22, 2014, 02:11:37 PM
Well then have a crouton sandwich and love it beotch!! ;D
Yes, sir. :D
Quote from: guido911 on August 23, 2014, 01:32:02 PM
Yes, sir. :D
Even stale bread can make pretty good toast.
Or another idea - french toast!!
Oh, wait....was this white bread? If so, the more important point here is to use whole wheat!! Everything still applies - in fact, makes even better dressing, especially when used half and half with cornbread!! Don't forget the diced giblets!! And mushrooms....
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on August 24, 2014, 08:20:33 PM
Even stale bread can make pretty good toast.
Or another idea - french toast!!
Oh, wait....was this white bread? If so, the more important point here is to use whole wheat!! Everything still applies - in fact, makes even better dressing, especially when used half and half with cornbread!! Don't forget the diced giblets!! And mushrooms....
Bread pudding was the sole option. But I am the only one that likes it. BTW, bread pudding was the only food the Army did well. IMO
Quote from: guido911 on August 24, 2014, 08:49:48 PM
Bread pudding was the sole option. But I am the only one that likes it. BTW, bread pudding was the only food the Army did well. IMO
Shore based Navy food in the early 70's wasn't too bad. I only did a short Carrier Qual for "sea duty" and that was OK too. I don't know about the food for a full duration "cruise".
Quote from: guido911 on August 24, 2014, 08:49:48 PM
Bread pudding was the sole option. But I am the only one that likes it. BTW, bread pudding was the only food the Army did well. IMO
I'm sure you heard of SOS....one of my uncles was cook in Army during WWII Europe - he was a great cook, but one of my favorites was SOS - he fixed the recipe they trained him with and showed his brothers and sister how to make it right! Yum!!
And it can be made with a lot of things from dried beef to hamburger, sausage, bacon crumbles, chicken, etc. One thing that has totally messed it up in this country is Crisco, or other vegetable oil. Use lard - accept no substitutes!! (I always use whole wheat flour for the extra "nutty" flavor ya get.)
Quote from: guido911 on August 24, 2014, 08:49:48 PM
Bread pudding was the sole option. But I am the only one that likes it. BTW, bread pudding was the only food the Army did well. IMO
Bread pudding with a bourbon glaze is simply amazing. If you are ever in Hicktown in OKC, stop in at Jazzmo's for some. Best I've had anywhere.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 25, 2014, 10:07:31 AM
Bread pudding with a bourbon glaze is simply amazing. If you are ever in Hicktown in OKC, stop in at Jazzmo's for some. Best I've had anywhere.
The Fountains that was around Southern Hills used to nail it.
Quote from: guido911 on August 25, 2014, 04:20:00 PM
The Fountains that was around Southern Hills used to nail it.
Yes they did! Used to eat lunch there once a week. Took me years to lose the results.
I like chocodiles