. . . officially, that is.
Chuck Schumer is starting the 2012 Dem messaging campaign up with a pretty straightforward attack on the Tea Party: (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/schumer-brands-gop-agenda-tea-party-economics.php?ref=fpb)
Quote"The economic recovery is happening too slowly and too haltingly, and the Tea Party is to blame," he writes. "With the economy at a crossroads, the GOP's current political strategy--block anything that could improve the economy, lest it boost the President's standing--has the potential to backfire. If Republicans continue opposing job-creating measures, they risk being blamed for whatever economic reality the country confronts in 2012. But Democrats must make this case. In the coming weeks, we will."
From a strategic standpoint, this was the stance the Dems should've had since the debt ceiling debacle, and arguably even since Obamacare made it -- almost unrecognizably -- through the sausagemaker. It's been obvious that the GOP is going to stop anything from moving through the Congress, even if it's one of their former proposals or policy prescriptions. Nothing's gonna get an up vote if Obama's attached to it. I'm not sure if this will work to help the 2012 elections -- it may simply be to late for any incumbent, or it may be too late for Obama -- but at least they're finally putting out a bit of the truth.
Quote from: we vs us on October 12, 2011, 04:43:45 PM
. . . officially, that is.
Chuck Schumer is starting the 2012 Dem messaging campaign up with a pretty straightforward attack on the Tea Party: (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/schumer-brands-gop-agenda-tea-party-economics.php?ref=fpb)
From a strategic standpoint, this was the stance the Dems should've had since the debt ceiling debacle, and arguably even since Obamacare made it -- almost unrecognizably -- through the sausagemaker. It's been obvious that the GOP is going to stop anything from moving through the Congress, even if it's one of their former proposals or policy prescriptions. Nothing's gonna get an up vote if Obama's attached to it. I'm not sure if this will work to help the 2012 elections -- it may simply be to late for any incumbent, or it may be too late for Obama -- but at least they're finally putting out a bit of the truth.
There's nothing new in this. It's always "blame someone else" with you guys ;)
I'm a Repub and I blame them.
Quote from: we vs us on October 12, 2011, 04:43:45 PM
Nothing's gonna get an up vote if Obama's attached to it.
Not every Republican is a Teapartier. Come up with some good legislation and the Dems will collect some Republicans and have a chance of passing it. Of course, there are a lot of opinions about what qualifies as good.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 12, 2011, 06:15:58 PM
Not every Republican is a Teapartier. Come up with some good legislation and the Dems will collect some Republicans and have a chance of passing it. Of course, there are a lot of opinions about what qualifies as good.
You're right that not every Republican is a Tea Partier, but it doesn't matter, because virtually all Republicans vote as if they were.
Dems and Obama have proposed a raft of things that the GOP has proposed in the past. None of them have any traction. The thing is, the middle ground is there and has been there since at least 2010, much to the consternation of folks on the left. The problem is not even stuff in the middle is acceptable to the GOP.
Quote from: we vs us on October 12, 2011, 07:54:02 PM
You're right that not every Republican is a Tea Partier, but it doesn't matter, because virtually all Republicans vote as if they were.
Dems and Obama have proposed a raft of things that the GOP has proposed in the past. None of them have any traction. The thing is, the middle ground is there and has been there since at least 2010, much to the consternation of folks on the left. The problem is not even stuff in the middle is acceptable to the GOP.
We all know that both parties have voted in blocks.
There have been some middle ground offerings but they have been attached to poison pills from the left. Just to be fair, it also works the other way. That's one of the problems. Middle ground stuff always has something totally unacceptable to the other side.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 12, 2011, 08:07:38 PM
We all know that both parties have voted in blocks.
There have been some middle ground offerings but they have been attached to poison pills from the left. Just to be fair, it also works the other way. That's one of the problems. Middle ground stuff always has something totally unacceptable to the other side.
I'd agree with you in almost any other era. But really, the Dems have given away -- and continue to give away -- the house, entirely on Republican terms. In this era, one side actually is acting entirely different from the other. The Dems are not doing what the GOP is doing, even though they could if they wanted. They are offering compromises, but the GOP refuses them every time.
The poison pill thing is par for the course, and the first step in the negotiating process. Bundle it all together and hope to get everything you ask for. When/if it doesn't work, negotiate out the poison part of the pill. But the GOP isn't negotiating. They are simply saying no and voting as a bloc to kill everything.
Quote from: we vs us on October 12, 2011, 08:27:26 PM
But really, the Dems have given away -- and continue to give away -- the house, entirely on Republican terms.
We'll just have to disagree on this, at least the "entirely on Republican terms" part.
I think it's awesome!
Joe Biden was starting to scare me by implying that the administration was going to start to take responsibility for failure, but this cements the idea that they are going to continue a blame fueled campaign. Go with what you know I guess.
The blame game has become an actual industry and perhaps the only thing that has actually created jobs for the President. From the late night comedians to the T-Shirt industry. Blame ______ is a household phrase when discussing President Obama, congress, and the failures of bad policy.
It was Bush, then banks, then the Tsunami, then the European Economy, then hurricanes, then ATMs, then China, now the Tea Party. Tomorrow it will be something else. Look in the mirror, it could be you!
The most important aspect of leadership is responsibility, it is something that is taken, not given.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 13, 2011, 07:40:39 AM
The most important aspect of leadership is responsibility, it is something that is taken, not given.
Sound bite for a complex situation that requires paragraphs, chapters and possibly even books.
Obama has shown to be pretty much as incompetent as any before. I suspect this is the nature of the job - no one is ever gonna do a competent job as President now. None have since at least the 60's. Well, Ford was pretty good - he vetoed more spending bills than anyone!!
His caving in on the expiration of the tax cuts is probably the single biggest screw up he has made. Letting those lapse would have brought some peace of mind to the country (and even the rest of the world) that we were serious about working to solve the economic problems. We would have been much further along by now. And no, this is not just a speculation - it is a pattern that has been repeated over and over for more than 70 years and has proven that it works.
Second, I think he has missed an opportunity to accelerate the wind-down of Iraq. We should already be out of there. And Afghanistan should be about half wound down by now.
The "Fast and Furious" debacle by the ATF is easy to blame on him, and I believe he shares a big piece of it - with Holder! But it ignores the history and track record of the ATF since at least 1968. They are the government agency that would best be abolished rather than DOE or EPA or OSHA. At least the last 3 do no harm - and actually do a lot of good when they aren't used as political footballs. They certainly aren't supplying gangs hitting the streets with AK47's and ammo for fire-fights. (Too bad one of those 3 wasn't up to speed a little more when Karen Silkwood was around!)
"the middle" is soooo last century.
Please move to your corners and keep the middle clear. Compromise will not be tolerated, tolerance will not be tolerated.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 13, 2011, 07:40:39 AM
I think it's awesome!
Joe Biden was starting to scare me by implying that the administration was going to start to take responsibility for failure, but this cements the idea that they are going to continue a blame fueled campaign. Go with what you know I guess.
The blame game has become an actual industry and perhaps the only thing that has actually created jobs for the President. From the late night comedians to the T-Shirt industry. Blame ______ is a household phrase when discussing President Obama, congress, and the failures of bad policy.
It was Bush, then banks, then the Tsunami, then the European Economy, then hurricanes, then ATMs, then China, now the Tea Party. Tomorrow it will be something else. Look in the mirror, it could be you!
The most important aspect of leadership is responsibility, it is something that is taken, not given.
Gassie, I have already told you I must take some of the blame. You're not another self denying ego maniac who refuses to see the wayward decisions you failed to try to stop which led to, and continue to, reek havoc on our economy?
Quote from: Teatownclown on October 13, 2011, 11:58:49 AM
Gassie, I have already told you I must take some of the blame. You're not another self denying ego maniac who refuses to see the wayward decisions you failed to try to stop which led to, and continue to, reek havoc on our economy?
I am not smart enough to understand you point.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 13, 2011, 12:46:35 PM
I am not smart enough to understand you point.
Have a few Marshall's. It may help to understand. I'll try it when I get home from work.
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 13, 2011, 12:54:49 PM
Have a few Marshall's. It may help to understand. I'll try it when I get home from work.
I keep a bottle of Captain Morgans in my desk. Perhaps I'll move to his level later.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 13, 2011, 12:46:35 PM
I am not smart enough to understand you point.
Well, at least you accept responsibility for not being smart. I'd attribute part of the cause w/b CM.
Gassie, everyone who wants to progress forward needs to understand their small role in getting us here....unless you never voted.....and instead of harping on the mess Obama was left from Bush look for ways out of this gloom. I'm sure for you, it's Mitt.
Where was all this harping for the last 31 years?? Yeah, I know I have asked this question before and NEVER got an answer. The real run up of debt and spending and deficits started in 1981 - with a short pause between 1993 and 2001. EVERYTHING before that was penny-ante schoolyard crap!
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 12, 2011, 08:35:04 PM
We'll just have to disagree on this, at least the "entirely on Republican terms" part.
It would probably be more accurate to say "entirely on Republican terms of two years ago". With the Tea Party nearly running the show, that's not good enough. The Tea Party faction's biggest problem is that they don't know when to say yes.
Blame Canada!!
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=18427.msg222576#msg222576
Now that the Presidential election is no contest, time to focus on getting these extremists out of DC....
Coburn was quoted this morning as saying he doesn't care about the presidential race for 2012. Talk about jaded...