AP Exclusive: Oklahoma spends $84,000 on Paris Air Show
By SEAN MURPHY Associated Press
Published: 10/5/2011
OKLAHOMA CITY — As Oklahoma wrapped up a fiscal year that saw deep budget cuts, four state officials were sent to the Paris Air Show for a week this summer to promote Oklahoma's aviation industry — and it cost taxpayers $84,000, records show.
Oklahoma taxpayers footed the bill for $400-a-night hotel rooms at a luxury Paris hotel, $188 daily meal per diems and more than $3,000 in air fare, according to a review of receipts obtained by The Associated Press through an open records request. Oklahoma was one of at least 14 states represented at the show, which was promoted as the world's premier event for the aerospace industry.
Gov. Mary Fallin did not attend the show but defended Oklahoma's participation, calling it a "legitimate investment" because of the state's burgeoning aerospace industry and the associated potential for economic development.
"It's costly, certainly, to go to an international travel show and to participate, but it is one of the most prestigious aerospace industry shows in the world," Fallin said. "The aerospace industry is very important to Oklahoma's economy, and it's been one of our leading industries for a long time. It generates $11 billion of economic output to the state."
But critics questioned why the state would spend any taxpayer money on a trip to Paris, especially at a time when state coffers had been decimated by the national recession. "I think it's nonsense for the state of Oklahoma to have to go and promote capitalism," said state Rep. Mike Reynolds, R-Oklahoma City. "If aerospace is big to Oklahoma, I would think it would be important for those particular companies that represent aerospace in Oklahoma to go to the Paris Air Show and send their employees, instead of sending employees of the state of Oklahoma."
While it's not uncommon for state commerce officials to send delegations to trade shows across the country, or even international events, such junkets invariably raise eyebrows given the state's tough fiscal climate in which public funding has been slashed for education, health care and public safety. This was the first time in 10 years that Oklahoma had sent a delegation to the Paris Air Show, according to a Department of Commerce spokesman.
"There's no doubt it's a cost, but we'd like to look at it in terms of an investment, because we're expecting a result in return," said Oklahoma's Secretary of Commerce Dave Lopez, who did not attend the event but sent three of his employees on the trip.
"Even though the $84,000 investment on this air show is considerable, if we determine that it brings even a few dozen jobs to Oklahoma, it will be worthwhile."
Oklahoma's four-person state delegation included three Department of Commerce employees and Fallin's Secretary of Technology, Stephen McKeever, who also serves as vice president for research and technology transfer at Oklahoma State University. McKeever, who spent five days in Paris, also traveled to the United Kingdom for several days after the show in his role as director of the university's Multispectral Lab. Several private Oklahoma-based aerospace companies, along with a delegation from chambers of commerce in Ardmore and Oklahoma City, also participated in the show and reimbursed the state for nearly half of the $154,000 total cost.
Some of the costs included $65,000 for the construction of a booth and space at the event, $25,000 to "develop leads" and $13,500 for marketing materials such as banners and brochures.
Records show that the four state employees spent about $400 each night at the luxurious Le Meridien Etoile Hotel in the heart of Paris and were reimbursed $188 each day for meals in the city, which has one of the highest foreign per diem rates in the world.
Although the Oklahoma delegation scheduled a total of 35 meetings with "potential investors" and hosted a reception with nearly 75 industry leaders, the Department of Commerce could provide no direct evidence that the state's participation in the show resulted in the creation of new jobs in Oklahoma. "It's hard to point to any one event and say that closes a deal," Lopez said. "You make initial contacts. You exchange information. It's not the kind of thing where there's an immediate cause and effect."
Aerospace in Oklahoma is responsible for 150,000 jobs connected to the industry, and includes Tinker Air Force Base — the state's largest single-site employer — and the American Airlines Maintenance and Engineering Center in Tulsa, which employs 7,000 people, according to the Oklahoma Aeronautics Commission.
Another 5,000 workers are employed at the Federal Aviation Administration's Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center in Oklahoma City. Despite the important impact of the industry on Oklahoma's economy, many policy makers reject the idea that the state has a role in creating jobs.
"The government's role is to leave people alone so that they can get to work, through less regulation and reasonable taxation, and to reward incentive and not punish manufacturing and innovation," said state Sen. Steve Russell, R-Oklahoma City. "When the government sees its role as somehow being a CEO of hiring, I think we begin to lose our way.
"It seems to me that much of this could be privately funded rather than put it on the state itself to pay for it."
65 thousand dollars to construct a booth and 13.5 thousand dollars for banners and brochures?
4 employees cost us 84 thousand dollars...
How can anyone justify that much money?
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 05, 2011, 02:36:17 PM
65 thousand dollars to construct a booth and 13.5 thousand dollars for banners and brochures?
4 employees cost us 84 thousand dollars...
How can anyone justify that much money?
Prob thought they could hide it.
I like the $400.00 a night hotel rooms.
Oh, I thought we paid $84,000 to see Paris Hilton naked. I was really going to be outraged since you can see that for free on the interwebs.
Well, we do have the only Unmanned Aerial Systems training facility in the country, and we build drones. Perhaps that was of interest to the dozens of other delegations present. We will have to see what the payoff is.
We've made these same marketing investments several times before. They are hit and miss.
Too soon to see if this was a bomb (no pun).
With our new international notoriety for vaporizing people with unmanned aircraft, we may have been the bell of the ball!
Interesting special on channel 6 about this last night. Apparently the trip has so-far returned a $1 million dollar contract to an Oklahoma City aerospace manufacturing firm, and a similar contract to a Tulsa firm called Southwest United Industries, Inc.
. . .and there are more contracts in the works.
Looks like it was a good investment.
Seems far better than when Gov. Henry went to China. ;)
Quote from: Townsend on October 05, 2011, 02:45:49 PM
Prob thought they could hide it.
I like the $400.00 a night hotel rooms.
That's really not close to the high end for a Paris hotel.
Quote from: DTowner on October 07, 2011, 11:42:01 AM
That's really not close to the high end for a Paris hotel.
We just got back a few months ago. Ours weren't $400 and they were nice rooms.
This type of story is always good to rouse the rabble, but then the rabble complain when governtment isn't doing enough to "create jobs." Usually the success of such promotional efforts are hard to quantify, but it sounds like some direct success came from it. I was more disturbed that it does not a appear anyone from Tulsa's Chamber of Commerce was part of the delegation.
Quote from: Townsend on October 07, 2011, 11:45:11 AM
We just got back a few months ago. Ours weren't $400 and they were nice rooms.
So, if these 4 people had only spent $300 a night for hotel rooms you would be ok with the trip?
Quote from: DTowner on October 07, 2011, 11:50:09 AM
So, if these 4 people had only spent $300 a night for hotel rooms you would be ok with the trip?
That's how you perceived the comment?
Did I outline it with "Other than that, I'm cool with it?"
What's your point?
Quote from: DTowner on October 07, 2011, 11:47:29 AM
This type of story is always good to rouse the rabble, but then the rabble complain when governtment isn't doing enough to "create jobs." Usually the success of such promotional efforts are hard to quantify, but it sounds like some direct success came from it. I was more disturbed that it does not a appear anyone from Tulsa's Chamber of Commerce was part of the delegation.
Who has proof that the "success" came directly from their efforts?
I agree things should be tried but $84,000 seems excessive.
Quote from: Townsend on October 07, 2011, 11:52:06 AM
That's how you perceived the comment?
Did I outline it with "Other than that, I'm cool with it?"
What's your point?
It was a question. You highlighted the nightly hotel charge. I simply observed that hotels in Paris can be expensive and noted, at least by implication, that the hotel costs were a pretty small fraction of the overall cost.
Quote from: DTowner on October 07, 2011, 11:57:39 AM
It was a question. You highlighted the nightly hotel charge. I simply observed that hotels in Paris can be expensive and noted, at least by implication, that the hotel costs were a pretty small fraction of the overall cost.
It was an example of something easily made cheaper.
Quote from: Townsend on October 07, 2011, 11:54:49 AM
Who has proof that the "success" came directly from their efforts?
I agree things should be tried but $84,000 seems excessive.
I was referring to Gaspar's comment that some contracts had already been landed. And no, I don't think, and thought I made clear, that marketing/promotional efforts can usually be tied to success with absolute certainty. However a lot of companies must think it works as billions of dollars are spent each year promoting products. I have no idea if $84,000 was excessive or if Oklahoma could have gotten an equal result by only spending $42,000. I'm all for holding the politicos accountable, but this is a rounding error in government spending that at least was trying to bring more business to our state. I'd rather see sharper scrutiny directed at the numerous tax credits awarded ove the years that don't seem to be generating any economic benefit to Okla.
Quote from: DTowner on October 07, 2011, 12:07:39 PM
I was referring to Gaspar's comment that some contracts had already been landed. And no, I don't think, and thought I made clear, that marketing/promotional efforts can usually be tied to success with absolute certainty. However a lot of companies must think it works as billions of dollars are spent each year promoting products. I have no idea if $84,000 was excessive or if Oklahoma could have gotten an equal result by only spending $42,000. I'm all for holding the politicos accountable, but this is a rounding error in government spending that at least was trying to bring more business to our state. I'd rather see sharper scrutiny directed at the numerous tax credits awarded ove the years that don't seem to be generating any economic benefit to Okla.
I think you read too much into my comment about the hotel rooms.
I didn't construct a booth, hang banners, or buy aero company reps dinner and drinks.
I did stay in a hotel and I know they didn't have to spend $400 a night to be comfortable.
Quote from: Gaspar on October 07, 2011, 09:31:15 AM
Interesting special on channel 6 about this last night. Apparently the trip has so-far returned a $1 million dollar contract to an Oklahoma City aerospace manufacturing firm, and a similar contract to a Tulsa firm called Southwest United Industries, Inc.
. . .and there are more contracts in the works.
Looks like it was a good investment.
Seems far better than when Gov. Henry went to China. ;)
$84k to get at least $2mil return and potentialy more? I wouldn't complain at all. You got to start somewhere.
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 07, 2011, 12:53:40 PM
$84k to get at least $2mil return and potentialy more? I wouldn't complain at all. You got to start somewhere.
Again, those claims, are they proven?
I'm not complaining about the return. My point was, the percentage could've been even larger if they didn't spend $21,000 a person for the trip. I know a great hotel there.
Quote from: Townsend on October 07, 2011, 01:05:34 PM
Again, those claims, are they proven?
I'm not complaining about the return. My point was, the percentage could've been even larger if they didn't spend $21,000 a person for the trip. I know a great hotel there.
True, Motel 6 is owned by French company Accor so they should have something similar there. Better yet they could have stayed at a hostel for free. ;D
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 07, 2011, 01:13:48 PM
True, Motel 6 is owned by French company Accor so they should have something similar there. Better yet they could have stayed at a hostel for free. ;D
Those aren't free. Heads up in case you go somewhere with that in mind.
QuoteTulsa's chamber disagrees.
"If you're going to play in this game, that's what it costs to do," Neal said.
Not only that -- Neal says the trip did pay off. One of the private companies represented in Paris was Tulsa's M&M Manufacturing.
"M&M Manufacturing has been trying to do business for a number of years with Turkish Air International, but they've been striking out," Neal said.
But they hit a home run in Paris, striking a multi-year, multi-million dollar deal with Turkish Air that will bring money and jobs back to Tulsa.
"On top of that, they are farming out some of the work, some of the manufacturing work to another small manufacturer here in Tulsa called Southwest United Industries."
http://www.newson6.com/story/15636256/did-oklahoma-taxpayers-get-moneys-worth-from-paris-airshow-trip (http://www.newson6.com/story/15636256/did-oklahoma-taxpayers-get-moneys-worth-from-paris-airshow-trip)
QuoteTulsa's chamber disagrees.
"If you're going to play in this game, that's what it costs to do," Neal said.
Not only that -- Neal says the trip did pay off. One of the private companies represented in Paris was Tulsa's M&M Manufacturing.
"M&M Manufacturing has been trying to do business for a number of years with Turkish Air International, but they've been striking out," Neal said.
But they hit a home run in Paris, striking a multi-year, multi-million dollar deal with Turkish Air that will bring money and jobs back to Tulsa.
"On top of that, they are farming out some of the work, some of the manufacturing work to another small manufacturer here in Tulsa called Southwest United Industries."
Not trying to be argumentative and kudos if they really were effective to help here in Tulsa but...The M&M link shows no Tulsa location.
http://www.mmmfg.com/Default.aspx?sPageName=about_loc (http://www.mmmfg.com/Default.aspx?sPageName=about_loc)
Is there a Tulsa location?
10201 E 47th st Tulsa
Anyway, it's a small story that gets some riled up and my comment was meant to be flippant as most of my comments are.
I agree with this quote from the 6 story:
Quote"It's absolutely imperative that anybody traveling at the expense of taxpayers be extremely prudent," he said.
If it's expensive, don't feel it's imperative to take that 4th guy because he overheard you and the other two talking about it in the elevator.
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 07, 2011, 01:31:40 PM
10201 E 47th st Tulsa
That's Tulsa Precision. (cups hands over mouth ) Shenanigans! (turns head) Shenanigans!
Quote from: Townsend on October 07, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
That's Tulsa Precision. (cups hands over mouth ) Shenanigans! (turns head) Shenanigans!
My bad.
http://www.mm-mfg.com/contact.html (http://www.mm-mfg.com/contact.html)
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 07, 2011, 02:29:29 PM
My bad.
http://www.mm-mfg.com/contact.html (http://www.mm-mfg.com/contact.html)
Anyone working for channel 6, if you're lurking, you've got the wrong linky on your story.
You can thank dbacks for this.
Considering they most likely used French print shops and laborers for the booth the costs are not out of the norm, while they most likely could have saved money using Oklahoma printers the good will effect would have been diminished. As for the $400 room, it might have been to keep travel costs down, or just to be close with potential leads.
That said since it was "successful" I hope in the future its a joint venture with costs split with the private enterprises.
Fallin Departs for Air Trade-Show in United Kingdom
http://kwgs.com/post/fallin-departs-air-trade-show-united-kingdom (http://kwgs.com/post/fallin-departs-air-trade-show-united-kingdom)
QuoteOKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Gov. Mary Fallin is leading a delegation of seven Oklahoma aerospace companies to the Farnborough International Air Show in the United Kingdom.
Fallin and Science and Technology Secretary Stephen McKeever planned to depart Friday for the show, which begins Monday in Farnborough, England. Fallin spokesman Aaron Cooper says the governor will return to the United States on July 12 and then spend the rest of next week at the National Governor's Association's annual meeting in Williamsburg, Va.
Fallin has placed an emphasis on touting the state's growing aerospace industry and that Oklahoma's presence at one of the world's largest aerospace trade shows sends an important message.
McKeever was one of four state officials who attended an air show last year in Paris that cost taxpayers an estimated $84,000.
How's this sort of thing been turning out for Oklahoma?
Quote from: Townsend on July 06, 2012, 12:27:40 PM
Fallin Departs for Air Trade-Show in United Kingdom
http://kwgs.com/post/fallin-departs-air-trade-show-united-kingdom (http://kwgs.com/post/fallin-departs-air-trade-show-united-kingdom)
How's this sort of thing been turning out for Oklahoma?
Actually, there is a pretty strong aerospace alliance in Oklahoma which is a network of direct suppliers and support vendors. With Tinker, Vance, Spirit, Nordam, AA, Helicomb, Walden, various simulator manufacturers, and many others I'm forgetting, aerospace is a decent segment of the Oklahoma economy. If she's going to pitch for other manufacturers to locate here, it's worth it. If she's simply going for tea & crumpets, probably not worth it.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 06, 2012, 12:31:21 PM
If she's simply going for tea & crumpets, probably not worth it.
That's the bad feeling I've got. I'm guessing she's going because she can and last year's Paris trip raised a S-storm about cost.
Quote from: Townsend on July 06, 2012, 12:33:33 PM
That's the bad feeling I've got. I'm guessing she's going because she can and last year's Paris trip raised a S-storm about cost.
Oh, this trip was going to be cheaper because it's a few hundred air miles closer to OKC? ;D
Maybe they can claim this:
State to Announce Stillwater Aerospace Expansion
http://kwgs.com/post/state-announce-stillwater-aerospace-expansion (http://kwgs.com/post/state-announce-stillwater-aerospace-expansion)
QuoteTILLWATER, Okla. (AP) — City and state leaders plan an event Monday to announce the sale of a manufacturing facility in Stillwater to an international aerospace company.
Lt. Gov. Todd Lamb will join Stillwater Mayor John Bartley and other leaders at the Monday morning press conference. The announcement comes as Gov. Mary Fallin attends the Farnborough International Air Show in the United Kingdom.
The Stillwater NewsPress reports that a privately owned Belgian aerospace company has purchased the former MerCruiser manufacturing facility on Perkins Road in Stillwater.
Citing property transaction records, the newspaper reports that ASCO Industries purchased the site from the Stillwater Industrial Foundation on June 25.
ASCO designs and makes aircraft components and assemblies for Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier and Embraer commercial jets.
Quote from: Townsend on July 06, 2012, 12:38:31 PM
Maybe they can claim this:
State to Announce Stillwater Aerospace Expansion
http://kwgs.com/post/state-announce-stillwater-aerospace-expansion (http://kwgs.com/post/state-announce-stillwater-aerospace-expansion)
That's some major WIN! for StillH2O. It's not easy to find a tenant for plants the size of Mercruiser outside a large metro.
I would like to know how much we're paying before I celebrate.
Quote from: nathanm on July 06, 2012, 02:49:59 PM
I would like to know how much we're paying before I celebrate.
One would assume that the idea of foreign investments, conceived in the trade shows, purchasing our domestic industries is being made with the billion of dollars in the negative ledger of balance of payments we are creating each month. There should be no reason for US to send representatives to Europe to finance the purchase of these faulting industries and purchase of our utilities.
Greed is the bed partner to freedom of enterprise.
I believe I need to go take a shower now, brb. ;)