Talons' owner says team's return to Tulsa for 2012 season is "50/50"
Tulsa Talons part owner, Paul Ross says the franchise's return to Tulsa for a 2012 season in the AFL is a "50/50" proposition.
Ross spoke with Big Al Jerkens in a phone interview Wednesday.
Ross also said the operating expenses for the franchise have increased some $600,000 this season in the new AFL.
The Talons play an 18-game schedule this season, with nine road games, many of which are played in locations far outside the Midwest. Ross says significant changes will need to be made for the Talons to continue doing business in Tulsa.
Earlier this week, Channel 2 spoke with another Talons part owner, Henry Primeaux. Primeaux responded to rumors that the Talons had been sold to a group out of Houston, calling the rumor untrue, but not ruling out the possibility of a sale after the team's season comes to an end in three weeks.
The Talons were a charter member of the AF2, beginning play in 2000. In a decade in the AF2, Tulsa won more games, 123, than any other franchise and two AF2 Championships.
The Talons joined the new AFL in 2010.
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/talons%27-owner-says-team%27s-return-to-tulsa-for-2012-season-is-%2250_50%22
Quote from: bmuscotty on July 07, 2011, 12:02:01 PM
Ross says significant changes will need to be made for the Talons to continue doing business in Tulsa.
Handout time.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 07, 2011, 12:55:57 PM
Handout time.
It's their fault for spearheading this asinine AF1 league idea and thinking that Tulsa could compete in markets like Chicago, Tampa and the like. I was telling friends of mine who are HUGE indoor football fans that this proposition is doomed to fail within five years (at least for Tulsa it is..doesn't matter if the league office exists here or not).
A Friend went to a game this weekend and the Talons merchandise was 50% off.
Sounds like a big clue.
They always put stuff on sale last couple of home games.
Quote from: bmuscotty on July 11, 2011, 12:01:59 PM
They always put stuff on sale last couple of home games.
Thanks for the correction. I'm one of the non-regulars to the games.
I do have pics in my office of the wife and me with giant beers from a game.
I bought season tickets this year and have enjoyed going to the games. But they haven't had amazing attendance at any of the games this season. I think the season opener scared away many potential fans. Hopefully, they stick around for a couple more years but I also wouldn't be surprised if the team moved to another city this year.
Well, I saw zero options for season tickets to be renewed at the game this weekend. Generally, one would see this during the last couple home games. There was Zero Merchandise to be purchased excluding some over-sized sweat pants. I spoke with Casey (one of the announcers) he rolled his eyes at me when I mentioned next season.
I am going to assume that the team is done. Sad to see them go after eleven years.
I thought it was a bad idea to push an effort to take a successful league with low overhead into reviving a defunct league that went broke because of high overhead. I hope they stay, but...
It really didn't look like a sound business model and reminded me of the original Ice Oilers. Travel costs and overhead got too high.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 20, 2011, 08:28:20 AM
It really didn't look like a sound business model and reminded me of the original Ice Oilers. Travel costs and overhead got too high.
Which version of the Ice Oilers? There have been more than one. If you talk 'original', the original Ice Oilers got started round these parts in the '20s.
I didn't know you were that old.
;D
Quote from: Hoss on July 20, 2011, 08:44:24 AM
Which version of the Ice Oilers? There have been more than one. If you talk 'original', the original Ice Oilers got started round these parts in the '20s.
I didn't know you were that old.
;D
My grandfather played on the very first Oilers team in 1928 in the AHA.
Quote from: Hoss on July 20, 2011, 08:44:24 AM
Which version of the Ice Oilers? There have been more than one. If you talk 'original', the original Ice Oilers got started round these parts in the '20s.
I didn't know you were that old.
;D
Just call me Shadows ;) Speaking of, he's been silent lately.
Oh, and I was referring to the team which folded in the early '80s
Quote from: Conan71 on July 20, 2011, 09:55:29 AM
Just call me Shadows ;) Speaking of, he's been silent lately.
Oh, and I was referring to the team which folded in the early '80s
Yeah, but it sure made for a hell of a story.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/14497-The-Tulsa-Oilers-were-true-road-warriors.html#
Quote from: Hoss on July 20, 2011, 10:09:34 AM
Yeah, but it sure made for a hell of a story.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/14497-The-Tulsa-Oilers-were-true-road-warriors.html#
What years did Larry Hopkins play for the Oilers?
Quote from: Conan71 on July 20, 2011, 10:16:10 AM
What years did Larry Hopkins play for the Oilers?
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=7547
Looks like 79-80, 80-81, and he split time between here and the Winnipeg Jets in 81-82.
The Tulsa Talons ended a frustrating, disappointing 2011 Arena Football League season on a winning note as questions lingered about the future of the franchise.
Was Saturday's 71-55 road victory over the Kansas City Command the last gasp in Tulsa's 12-year experiment with indoor pro football?
The team's five-man ownership group will determine over the next several weeks whether the Talons will play a third AFL season in Tulsa, be sold to other investors and possibly moved to another city or die a quiet death.
Reports surfaced over the weekend that a local group headed by former Tulsa Drillers owner Chuck Lamson was interested in buying the team. Lamson would neither confirm nor deny the report.
Paul Ross and Henry Primeaux, who partnered in buying the team from Tulsa Oilers hockey owner Jeff Lund in 2004, each own 25 percent of the team. An additional one-fourth is owned by Michael Johnson, former chief administrative officer for Williams Cos. Inc. Another one-fourth is shared by Tulsa Shock owners Bill Cameron and David Box.
The Talons have a Sept. 15 deadline for notifying the AFL of their intention to participate in the 2012 season.
Ross, chairman of the AFL's finance committee, said it is too early to predict what will happen.
"It's no different than last year or the year before. It's a business decision and we don't have all our information together yet," he said.
Primeaux said he was working hard to keep the team in Tulsa.
"It belongs to the city and it should be here, but the city needs to support it," Primeaux said.
The Talons suffered from a lack of support in 2011. The team ranked near the bottom of the league in ticket sales, averaging only 5,424 per game - more than 1,100 fewer per game than last season.
That was a huge hit to take when league costs rose by $250,000 to $300,000 over the previous season, Ross said. Higher ticket revenue was needed to offset the increased costs.
A season-high 9,311 attended the March 28 season-opener against the Arizona Rattlers, but a rebuilt Talons squad lost in near-catastrophic fashion, 69-20.
Ross and Primeaux feel they lost many fans after the team's 0-3 start and never won them back, although the Talons rebounded smartly to win eight of their final 15 games and contend for a playoff berth.
Tulsa lost a veteran core from 2010, including five first- and second-team All-League selections. By almost every consideration, head coach Mitch Allner and assistant Marty Robinson did one of their finest coaching jobs in bringing along a team loaded with rookie pros and first-year arena players.
There were highlights along the way. Rookie defensive back J.C. Neal ranked among the league leaders in tackles (109.5), interceptions (9), forced fumbles (5) and passes defended (30).
Troy McBroom caught 31 touchdown passes and totaled 1,747 receiving yards - the second-highest one-year total in franchise history.
The Talons had impressive wins over Central Division-champion Chicago (64-45) and the Utah Blaze (81-51) and looked at times like a team much better than its 8-10 closing record.
But in the end, the Talons couldn't overcome a series of blown opportunities and last-second losses. They lost six games by a touchdown or less, including four after leading in the final minute and three decided as time expired.
If Allner, Ross and Primeaux could change any two of those results, the Talons would have finished with a winning record and reached the playoffs for a 12th straight year.
AFL Attendance link:
http://www.arenafan.com/statistics/?page=attendance&league=1
Attendance wise, Tulsa is doing much better than Atlanta (Duluth), Kansas City & Milwaukee.
When the Oklahoma Wranglers were in the AFL; they played their games in what is now the 13,500-seat Cox Convention Center Arena (old Myriad). The year we opened the 19,500-seat OKC Arena our AFL team went under.
We averaged 10,067 our first season and dropped off to 8,032 our final season in the AFL.
Oklahoma Wranglers: http://www.arenafan.com/teams/?page=history&team=47
Arena Football League strives in some areas like Orlando, Phoenix, Tampa Bay, San Jose & New Orleans.
Good luck on building interest in the AFL; it is a tough product to market.
Well, according to the AFL FanZone,
http://www.aflfanzone.com/forum/topics/and-then-there-were-two
It looks like our days are numbered.
Talons' future in Tulsa in question
Owners must decide by next week to keep, sell, move or shut down the team.By MIKE BROWN World Sports Writer
Published: 9/10/2011 1:59 AM
Last Modified: 9/10/2011 7:20 AM
The Tulsa Talons ownership group is still undecided about what to do with the financially troubled Arena Football League franchise.
"We've met, and we have four different opinions about what we should do," co-owner and managing partner Paul Ross said Friday.
Ross said the Talons face a deadline next Friday for notifying the league of their intentions for the 2012 season.
"All options are being considered, but we need to do something," Ross said.
Ross said the options run the spectrum from selling or relocating the team to continuing to operate in Tulsa next year or ceasing operations.
Speculation has swirled for months that the Talons would be sold and moved after the team saw a 17.6 percent attendance drop over 2010, and a larger-than-anticipated increase in league costs running upwards of $250,000.
"It's the worst year financially we've had," said Ross, who partnered with Henry Primeaux in buying the team in 2004 when it was part of the af2 developmental league.
Under the current ownership structure, Ross, Primeaux and Michael Johnson, former chief administrative officer for Williams Cos. Inc., own a quarter each. Another one-fourth is shared by Tulsa Shock owners Bill Cameron and David Box.
The San Antonio Express-News reported last week that the city has been approved to host an AFL franchise in 2012, with California-based businessman Jason Lohe heading a group that will run the team.
It is not clear whether the San Antonio franchise would be an expansion or relocated team. But Ross said at the time and repeated Friday that there was no deal for sale of the Talons.
Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=407&articleid=20110910_223_B2_TheTul2423
I don't want to be the jerk to say this... but I told ya so. When the AFL folded and AF2 was still successful it made NO SENSE at all for the af2 to then adopt the afl model and reopen with old afl teams. It was viable before, and it isn't now. The move likely destroyed the talons. :(
Quote from: cannon_fodder on September 14, 2011, 01:22:05 PM
I don't want to be the jerk to say this... but I told ya so. When the AFL folded and AF2 was still successful it made NO SENSE at all for the af2 to then adopt the afl model and reopen with old afl teams. It was viable before, and it isn't now. The move likely destroyed the talons. :(
And I said that the day they announced it. I'm sure you thought it or said it as well.
I agree. Just hasn't been the same. The level of play doesn't seem to be as exciting as it was under in the AF2 and when the played in the Convention Center. Saw some really great games there.
Well it looks like the final nail is being driven into the coffin......
http://www.ktul.com/story/15515956/report-says-talons-leaving?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook (http://www.ktul.com/story/15515956/report-says-talons-leaving?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook)
http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/AFL-franchise-for-S-A-is-a-done-deal-2180722.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/AFL-franchise-for-S-A-is-a-done-deal-2180722.php)
And I would guess the Shock can't be far behind, unless I've somehow missed that announcement already.
Quote from: Conan71 on September 21, 2011, 01:42:06 PM
And I would guess the Shock can't be far behind, unless I've somehow missed that announcement already.
You think we have people knocking on the door to buy a team that won a single game this year?
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 21, 2011, 02:47:16 PM
You think we have people knocking on the door to buy a team that won a single game this year?
Doubtful. Just an announcement they will no longer be here was what I was referring to.
I can think of about six millions reasons (aka the $6mil+ that interested parties ponied up to buy/relocate the Detroit Shock) as to why the Tulsa Shock will be around for at least another year...