From: http://baledger.com/news/article_3b097e70-54d7-11e0-837f-001cc4c03286.html
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The City Council unanimously approved Tuesday an agreement that would pay out economic incentives to Dick's Sporting Goods if the chain builds a Broken Arrow location, according to city staff notes.
The city would pay as much as $900,000 in "project-related development incentives" to the chain through money from the Broken Arrow Economic Development Authority, according to the agreement.
It the city would pay Dick's Sporting Goods 1.5 percent of the store's yearly sales - up to $90,000 - within 90 days of the store's opening anniversary. The city also would pay the store on each anniversary for 10 years but has capped the payments at $900,000, according to the agreement.
For the record, they are currently building one at Tulsa Hills and another one at 71st & Mingo with the City of Tulsa not giving up anything.
But why would they build one in BA when there will be two in Tulsa? Sorry BA.
I'm huge fan of Dick's Sporting Goods coming to Tulsa, I love their stores and they frequently offer good prices. But, I think the market would be a bit oversaturated with three in the area.
BA's got Bass Pro Shops. Why would they need that??
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 21, 2011, 02:23:50 PM
BA's got Bass Pro Shops. Why would they need that??
They want a sporting goods store people actually shop at.
Quote from: ZYX on June 21, 2011, 01:31:12 PM
But why would they build one in BA when there will be two in Tulsa? Sorry BA.
I'm huge fan of Dick's Sporting Goods coming to Tulsa, I love their stores and they frequently offer good prices. But, I think the market would be a bit oversaturated with three in the area.
You don't understand the retail bankruptcy "game".....this board is stuffed and there will be fallout. It won't be Dick's, least not for 10 years. Go back to 1995 and look at who has come and gone. It's all a bankruptcy safety net game except for the few too big to fail that have gawd and their cuntry on their side.
edit: Grizz...the city did not give up anything this time around but they have in the past in order to facilitate development. Some lender/owner gave up 3 million to entice them into 71st and Mingo. I'm certain sacrifices were made in BA....
I guess you haven't actually been to the Bass Pro shops??
If it were my store, I would like to see more, but having stood in line many times, not sure I'm convinced they are hurting any.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 21, 2011, 05:39:34 PM
I guess you haven't actually been to the Bass Pro shops??
If it were my store, I would like to see more, but having stood in line many times, not sure I'm convinced they are hurting any.
My first time in about four years was this past weekend, as I needed to get supplies to maintain a new gun.
It feels a little like a fair, but without the loudass carnies.
Wasn't Tulsa Hills a TIF district? If so, then yes Tulsa gave an incentive.
Quote from: rdj on June 21, 2011, 07:36:31 PM
Wasn't Tulsa Hills a TIF district? If so, then yes Tulsa gave an incentive.
Yes. But it was indirect as opposed to tenant improvement dough the retailer pays back in rent IF they don't go tits up. BA will no doubt slip them money both under the table and as "incentive".
Don't think Bass is immune from future problems. There are several chains that have them in their cross hairs. It could be a real shoot out. :o
Bass Pro is definitely getting some competition, and that is a very good thing. Can only help customers. Have been to a couple Cabela's and they aren't bad. Little one in Wichita, but stopped at one in Minnesota that was pretty big (can't remember town...maybe it was Iowa?)
I personally feel BA didn't quite fail since they managed to get the first Dick's announcement in the state of Oklahoma. Broken Arrow has had more success in the last few years getting retailers than in the past. Supposedly, there are more retail projects in the works around the city.
Quote from: EricGarcia on June 22, 2011, 05:18:30 PM
I personally feel BA didn't quite fail since they managed to get the first Dick's announcement in the state of Oklahoma. Broken Arrow has had more success in the last few years getting retailers than in the past. Supposedly, there are more retail projects in the works around the city.
Theoretically, they will all open around the same time. Not sure it is worth $900,000 for the pleasure of announcing a couple of weeks early.
Quote from: sgrizzle on June 22, 2011, 08:31:02 PM
Theoretically, they will all open around the same time. Not sure it is worth $900,000 for the pleasure of announcing a couple of weeks early.
It is a performance incentive, meaning the max the city will pay back is $900,000 (over 10 years). The city is paying 1.5% of the yearly sales, up to $90,000/year. If sales exceed expectations, the city will not pay more than the $90,000/yr. If sales are lower, the city will pay less than the $90,000. Without Dick's in BA, the city would lose even more sales tax to Tulsa. With Dick's, the city will gain 1.5 cents/dollar spent more than they are now. It is a win-win and Tulsa still gets two stores, so Tulsa still wins in these tough economic times.
Where are all the two faced crying "socialism"? :(
What a business plan. Screw potential profits, matching demographics, site location studies....take the best bribe and force the plan to fit. But, its for the greater good. It feels dirty doesn't it?
Quote from: sgrizzle on June 22, 2011, 08:31:02 PM
Theoretically, they will all open around the same time. Not sure it is worth $900,000 for the pleasure of announcing a couple of weeks early.
BA's "corporate welfare" is more transparent. How much is Tulsa having to spend on infrastructure improvements to get a couple of Dick's put in?
Yeah, but we all benefit from infrastructure improvements. Only sportsmen shop at Dicks. Really, its forcing all the taxpayers to be stockholders with little or no dividend and no chance to sell their shares.
I find this sort of thing repugnant coming from the very people who lament creeping socialism and lack of corporate ethics. They are simply bribes using our money.
Quote from: AquaMan on June 23, 2011, 09:11:19 AM
Yeah, but we all benefit from infrastructure improvements. Only sportsmen shop at Dicks. Really, its forcing all the taxpayers to be stockholders with little or no dividend and no chance to sell their shares.
I find this sort of thing repugnant coming from the very people who lament creeping socialism and lack of corporate ethics. They are simply bribes using our money.
If those improvements are stormwater drainage from their property, sewage, water, and ingress/egress, it really only benefits Dick's.
Huh? What people are you talking about?
I'm not sure we (Tulsans) are benefitting from infrastructure improvements at Tulsa Hills. Maybe building Tulsa Hills was a pre-emptive measure for Tulsa in terms of limiting commercial growth outside the City limits on Hwy 75 going south; you know: stop the bleeding. When it's all said and done I tend to think having Tulsa Hills is more to the detriment of Tulsa than a benefit. And remember that's one big giant TIF district. The developer's getting much of their money back for making public 'improvements' (though I like TIFs if they're used properly). Tulsa Hills merely spreads our urbanized area out and adds to our inventory of public infrastructure without really adding tax base. The City's not really growing in terms of population or commercial opportunity, at least not significantly. Tulsa Hills, I think, mostly shifts the location of retail activity. I don't think there's anything unique about THills that draws people from outside the region.
I can think of a good dozen sites/existing shopping centers within the City's existing urbanized area that could have used that 'shot in the arm' kinda reinvestment and could have been made really nice and accommodated much of that retail development with half the cost of infrastructure investment. But then I guess they (THills) don't get the scale they were after.
All the garbage that is in the aggregate BA will catch up to them and start to deteriorate. In time BA will be a very undesirable place. It won't patina - it'll rust. The newness will be somewhere else.
Quote from: OurTulsa on June 23, 2011, 11:00:02 AM
Tulsa Hills merely spreads our urbanized area out and adds to our inventory of public infrastructure without really adding tax base. The City's not really growing in terms of population or commercial opportunity, at least not significantly. Tulsa Hills, I think, mostly shifts the location of retail activity. I don't think there's anything unique about THills that draws people from outside the region.
You sound like one of those crazy mid-town elites who only shop at Utica Square.
Tulsa Hills is drawing sales tax dollars from Glenpool, Sapulpa, Okmulgee. It has become a draw for many southwest Tulsans, including the massive retirement community called Inverness Village.
Having a bunch of national chain stores and restaurants ain't hurting the shops at Utica Square. Stop worrying.
Tulsa Hills has been great for the city. If anything, it has shown that you can develop in West Tulsa. In my opinion, it has unlocked west Tulsa for residential development.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 23, 2011, 09:02:36 AM
BA's "corporate welfare" is more transparent. How much is Tulsa having to spend on infrastructure improvements to get a couple of Dick's put in?
ZILCH....
Quote from: OurTulsa on June 23, 2011, 11:00:02 AM
I'm not sure we (Tulsans) are benefitting from infrastructure improvements at Tulsa Hills. Maybe building Tulsa Hills was a pre-emptive measure for Tulsa in terms of limiting commercial growth outside the City limits on Hwy 75 going south; you know: stop the bleeding. When it's all said and done I tend to think having Tulsa Hills is more to the detriment of Tulsa than a benefit. And remember that's one big giant TIF district. The developer's getting much of their money back for making public 'improvements' (though I like TIFs if they're used properly). Tulsa Hills merely spreads our urbanized area out and adds to our inventory of public infrastructure without really adding tax base. The City's not really growing in terms of population or commercial opportunity, at least not significantly. Tulsa Hills, I think, mostly shifts the location of retail activity. I don't think there's anything unique about THills that draws people from outside the region.
I can think of a good dozen sites/existing shopping centers within the City's existing urbanized area that could have used that 'shot in the arm' kinda reinvestment and could have been made really nice and accommodated much of that retail development with half the cost of infrastructure investment. But then I guess they (THills) don't get the scale they were after.
All the garbage that is in the aggregate BA will catch up to them and start to deteriorate. In time BA will be a very undesirable place. It won't patina - it'll rust. The newness will be somewhere else.
My memory of the TIF details are sketchy. Do you remember what the terms were and does it extend to any nearby new housing developments? Don't discount the benefit of the jobs created which do help trickle money back into the local economy, though the argument can be made that without an influx of new residents or people coming from out of town to shop, it's simply cannibalizing jobs and sales tax collections from elsewhere in Tulsa.
What other sites in Tulsa did you have in mind? I'm trying to think of what sort of space is available in high traffic areas or at least another new corner we would want to develop and I'm not coming up with anything.
From what I'm seeing in other areas, this seems to be the current state of "mall" development, all free-standing or semi-linked store fronts. There's a similar development in Midwest City on SE 29th between Air Depot and Douglas fronting I-40 & Tinker AFB. As well, there are similar developments in Moore & Norman while Crossroads Mall and the Mall at Air Depot & Reno sit virtually vacant and dormant.
Quote from: rdj on June 23, 2011, 11:30:30 AM
Tulsa Hills has been great for the city. If anything, it has shown that you can develop in West Tulsa. In my opinion, it has unlocked west Tulsa for residential development.
There's considerable development on the West side of 75 now and more on the South end of Tulsa Hills.
As far as BA and retail didn't they just get a Super Walmart and a couple of super Targets? I'm thinking they got a bunch of new stuff along 71st too?
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 23, 2011, 11:44:18 AM
ZILCH....
So Dick's is paying for all the site improvements? Cool!
Quote from: Conan71 on June 23, 2011, 11:48:49 AM
So Dick's is paying for all the site improvements? Cool!
I did not say that....the developers/landlords are paying for it in Teatown. Dick's pays them back over time unlike municipal welfare in BA's attempt to shift the cost/benefit onto the public sector a la socialism. I don't hear you crying "shame."
What west Tulsa development?? There ain't that much of it. In about a mile or two you run into Oakhurst, Sapulpa, Jenks, etc. Just a tiny little strip of land.
Tulsa Hills Shopping on the other hand may just pull traffic from some of those areas, so we get a little bit of sales tax that would be missed. But most of those towns have some of what Hills has anyway.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 23, 2011, 09:02:36 AM
BA's "corporate welfare" is more transparent. How much is Tulsa having to spend on infrastructure improvements to get a couple of Dick's put in?
Just re-read this. I thought this was a family friendly place to hang? ;D
BA has changed a lot in the last decade or so...and not all of it for the better.
Quote from: rdj on June 23, 2011, 12:06:24 PM
Just re-read this. I thought this was a family friendly place to hang? ;D
Slipped that one in, didn't I? Bahahaha!
Heir. Do you ever travel to west Tulsa? Oakhurst is at least 5-6 miles away, and Sapulpa even further. Jenks is a mile a way. There's nothing close to that for Oakhurst unless you count the decayed strip center over on 49th West.
BA sux....red necks and whities and teahadists....nothing there except friday nite lights.....and sunday morning hypocrites.... :o
Oakhurst never had much, but Sapulpa has quite a bit of stuff.
Tough to say for sure, but Google Earth shows Tulsa city limit 1 mile west of the Tulsa Hills place. Jenks 2 miles south. Redfork 2 miles north. Got a place from 51st to 91st, 33rd West ave to the river. And there is already a bunch of stuff in much of that. Don't see just a whole lot of extra area to build in beyond some infill opportunities.
Looks like an unclaimed area west of 33rd west ave. That is the part that I am unsure about - not clear on the satellite.
Teatown...you obviously never have been there. Yep, a lot of that, but a lot more, too. One of my favorites is how the trash pickup works. They will take just about anything and provide you a years worth of trash bags. All at about the same price as Tulsa pickup. And the water tastes pretty good, too.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 23, 2011, 09:19:04 AM
If those improvements are stormwater drainage from their property, sewage, water, and ingress/egress, it really only benefits Dick's.
Huh? What people are you talking about?
Dick's won't always be there. The "improvements" and their maintenance or destruction are usually on the taxpayer's shoulders.
We all know who "they" are. Those people who rail at government interference until it possibly brings them a job, improves their tax base or gives them a place to play. ;)
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 23, 2011, 12:11:01 PM
BA sux....red necks and whities and teahadists....nothing there except friday nite lights.....and sunday morning hypocrites.... :o
They have to live somewhere. You should be glad they don't want to live in Tulsa. :D