So I'm on the tourism committee of the metro chamber's One Voice campaign. In case you're not familiar, the One Voice campaign is essentially the brainstorming process whereby chamber members generate and set priorities for the Chamber's lobbying sessions in OKC and in Washington. There are other committees out there: healthcare, transportation, economic development, etc, but because of what I do I'm on tourism.
We had our first meeting this week, and it was pretty dry and didn't get a whole lot of good ideas out on the table. So I thought i'd see if our forum had some good ideas that needed to be addressed. What I'm looking for are tourism ideas that can be specifically addressed on the state or federal level (not local, unless they have a state or federal component). So, for instance, everyone at the first meeting agreed that we need a downtown shuttle system, but couldn't really find a way to make that a state or fed issue. So it won't get on the list. However, funding the OK Pop museum would need state/federal support, so that WILL make the list.
What else needs doing around here?
But if the shuttle were electric powered, CNG, or a "light rail" that would fall under the sort of energy reduction the federal gov't is trying to enact.
Not to rain on the parade but I've got seriously mixed emotions of going to the feds for anything additional right now until the deficit spending and a debt reduction plan are firmly in place.
Pre-emptively speaking: "But if we don't lobby for those funds then someone else will" isn't a good excuse to further deficit spending.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 20, 2011, 01:05:02 PM
Pre-emptively speaking: "But if we don't lobby for those funds then someone else will" isn't a good excuse to further deficit spending.
I like the CNG angle; that might help out tremendously.
Unfortunately, a lone city taking a stand against budgetary shenanigans will fail utterly. Both to change the system and to address the needs of its people. I get the objection, but IMO it's not an issue that we can have any sort of effect on. Fed budget stuff has to be done by the feds.
Quote from: we vs us on June 20, 2011, 01:34:35 PM
I like the CNG angle; that might help out tremendously.
Unfortunately, a lone city taking a stand against budgetary shenanigans will fail utterly. Both to change the system and to address the needs of its people. I get the objection, but IMO it's not an issue that we can have any sort of effect on. Fed budget stuff has to be done by the feds.
It only takes one to start. Just like the argument that one Congressman or Senator with integrity can't change the entire politiscape in Washington, it's still a start.
Back on topic...
Getting a rail hub in the state, even a small one, would go a long ways to tieing the communities together as well as to areas outside of the state. It would also be a tremendous boost if we stopped building new turnpikes and let the existing ones finally pay themselves off and phase out.
Speaking of rail, Councilor Westcott was quoted on KRMG this morning wanting to try and get the Heartland Flyer extended to Tulsa. Here's a print article I was able to find. Westcott claims a 3.5:1 ROI.
"It returns about three and a half dollars in economic development for every dollar that the state spends on it. So in my opinion that's a great 12 year record that shows why passenger rail should be extended to Tulsa as well."
Westcott says there has been progress in the Legislature on the subject. He says a bill was passed during the last session to set up a public/private task force to look at extending service to Tulsa. "I do think now that our legislators, especially out Tulsa delegation, understand exactly what passenger rail could mean to Tulsa."
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/passenger-rail-service-celebrates-birthday-oklahom/nCxDL/
There's you a state or regional issue, Wevus.
I get Conan's point, but asking isn't the same thing as getting. In addition to the Okla. Pop Musem, a priority should be for federal or state monies to make use of the intermodal bridge we are building over the Ark. river makes a great deal of sense. I'm just not sure that falls under the tourism banner.
Anything to help enhance Tulsa International airport and attract more direct flights to cities on either coast
Has the Chamber been successful in passing for the large event tax credit? I know that was on the agenda in the past but I couldn't recall if it had passed.
I would suggest you look at wine & beer laws. How does that affect tourism? Perception, we are still seen as a backwards state. Agri-tourism & Eco-tourism also continue to be buzz industries. You could find some allies in the Oklahoma wineries.
Quote from: rdj on June 21, 2011, 11:10:13 AM
Has the Chamber been successful in passing for the large event tax credit? I know that was on the agenda in the past but I couldn't recall if it had passed.
I would suggest you look at wine & beer laws. How does that affect tourism? Perception, we are still seen as a backwards state. Agri-tourism & Eco-tourism also continue to be buzz industries. You could find some allies in the Oklahoma wineries.
Could you elaborate on the large event tax credit? And yes, the wine/beer laws are silly but I doubt they do much to inhibit tourism. People find a way to enjoy their sins. ;)
He may be talking about the Quality Events Act, which allows a portion of the sales tax generated from a qualifying event to be given back in the form of a rebate. It helps address the problem of bid fees, which larger citywide events demand (usually in the 10s of thousands of dollars) but which many localities can't front. Specific to OK, really only OKC and Tulsa would need to put up a bid fee of any consequence -- and maybe Norman for a sporting event, but that would be rare. I don't know their budget, but judging from their convention calendar, OKC doesn't have any problem fronting some of those fees for significant national and regional meetings. Tulsa, however, doesn't have ANY money for those fees and so the business goes elsewhere.
BTW thanks for the suggestions so far. There are some good ones that aren't necessarily hard-focused on tourism but which address major local concern of a general nature. Which, IMO, is better anyway.
Quote from: AquaMan on June 21, 2011, 11:37:12 AM
Could you elaborate on the large event tax credit? And yes, the wine/beer laws are silly but I doubt they do much to inhibit tourism. People find a way to enjoy their sins. ;)
I wasn't saying to lobby for changes because tourists will drink booze while they are, I was saying the perception is bad. If a place has seen as a bunch of backwards hicks then they won't come visit.
Quote from: we vs us on June 21, 2011, 12:33:02 PM
He may be talking about the Quality Events Act, which allows a portion of the sales tax generated from a qualifying event to be given back in the form of a rebate. It helps address the problem of bid fees, which larger citywide events demand (usually in the 10s of thousands of dollars) but which many localities can't front. Specific to OK, really only OKC and Tulsa would need to put up a bid fee of any consequence -- and maybe Norman for a sporting event, but that would be rare. I don't know their budget, but judging from their convention calendar, OKC doesn't have any problem fronting some of those fees for significant national and regional meetings. Tulsa, however, doesn't have ANY money for those fees and so the business goes elsewhere.
BTW thanks for the suggestions so far. There are some good ones that aren't necessarily hard-focused on tourism but which address major local concern of a general nature. Which, IMO, is better anyway.
Yes, this is what I was referring to. Did this pass?
Quote from: rdj on June 21, 2011, 01:18:56 PM
Yes, this is what I was referring to. Did this pass?
Yes, last year. I don't know the ins and outs, though . . . and whether it happened in time for the NCAA to get a cut or not.
Ok, this one is very important to me, especially since I am eyeball deep in trying to create a museum here in Tulsa, a tourist destination here in Tulsa.
I will send you an e-mail with contact information to someone who is in the lead with trying to create a Museum Coalition/ Foundation here in Tulsa. Think of it as kind of like the Tulsa Foundation but with the sole purpose of supporting the different Museum efforts.
We had our first meeting last month. Representatives from Philbrook, Gilcrease, Energy America, the Cains Museum, Oklahoma Pop, the Childrens Museum, Fiddler museum and Hall of Fame, John Hope Franklin Reconcilliation park, Arts and Humanities Councils new museum, the Tulsa Art Deco Museum, Jazz Hall of Fame, and others were there.
Many examples were given showing how all of us working together could do far more than only doing things seperately. Advertising for example. This Coalition/Foundation could be far more effective at marketing Tulsa and each of its museums than say the Tulsa Art Deco Museum could do all by itself. The Tulsa Art Deco Museum simply couldn't afford to market nationally for instance.
One of the things that was also talked about was funding. With all these new museums vying for funding from local, state, and federal sources, and the usual large donors in town,,, well, we wouldn't have that One Voice your talking about. If however there was one large Foundation that the money could go into, then for example, the Foundation could say... in 2014 this museum will get x amount of dollars, start getting your museum plans laid out for that time, before then this other museum will get this, then this other will get this... etc. (though I have found out that we are last on the list to get anything lol) Plus the foundation could watch over the money and help it grow, and perhaps also divy up some funding to help maintain and operate the museums. The "One Voice", could go to all the big donors, including the state and make a case for the foundation, for all the museums, versus each little museum project going to the state and fighting for a share. Also there was mention of perhaps some sort of dedicated tax or portion of an already existing tax that could help contribute to the foundation. Lots of different types of potential funding, but all going into one large supporting Foundation. Remember the Tulsa Foundation is the largest foundation of its type in the US, even bigger than its counterparts in places like NYC. It does a lot for Tulsa even when belts are tightened in economic downturns like we are in now.
Now honestly I am a little wary cause I don't think they are taking us seriously or think we will be able to do anything, for I must admit we are a little unconventional in our approach lol ( but won't we suprise them ;) ). When they made the presentation, the Tulsa Art Deco museum wasn't even on the list. But at least we got invited to the meeting so thats something lol. And I would prefer to get by on not having any city or state funding and get by on private donations and sales,,, but if that in the end doesn't pan out, well, I will keep my foot in the door just in case. But regardless, even if we don't get any funding, I believe the Coalition and Foundation would be to everyones benefit.
The more museums there are, the more of a destination Tulsa becomes, and that will only help our museum effort as well. Being able to buy say a weekend museum pass that will let you go to all the museums downtown and in other parts of the city, would only help us. Having brochures from every museum in each museum, helps us all. Having items related to each museum, in each museums gift shop helps us all. Being able to promote all the museums together in national TV, and magazine ads would help us all. Occasionally coordinating special shows and events to create an even bigger event (example: Gilcrease and the new Philbrook museum downtown doing a western show of some type then also the Childrens Museum doing something educational on that topic, then the Fiddler Hall of Fame and Cains doing some musical performance to go with the show, the Tulsa Art Deco Museum doing, say, a "prarie/western style deco" show, etc.) would make a bigger event and draw than each one of us always doing something completely different. Imagine if the Tulsa Foundation for Architecture, Philbrook, and the Tulsa Art Deco Museum had done a coorinated "American Streamline" showing, with the Cains and the Jazz Hall of Fame doing music from the era, and we had one discount ticket to them all and had promoted it regionally, as another for instance.
So in conclusion.... lol
I would like to see either, or both, a Museum Coalition Fund to coordinate shows and promotions/advertising, and or a Museum Foundation to help create and support all these museums.
If you want to get funding for the Oklahoma Pop only, well even that museum would do better if there were others nearby. But perhaps you could also ask for some funding along with that to start the Foundation and help with joint promotions and advertising and coordinating shows.
I have other ideas as well but this is already one loooong post.
This doesn't really have anything to do about lobbying, but I think Tulsa has done a horrible job at branding it's self.
I would like to see something like Austin's "Live Music Capital" or Branson (yes branson) "Live Entertainment Capital" or Vegas "Sin City" "What happens here, stays here"
The Chamber really need to focus on what makes Tulsa a great place for a young professional or young family to move here, and then go out and market especially to regional colleges. There really is a severe lack of diversity in the education of the workforce in Tulsa. It's pretty much all OSU/OU grads with TU/ORU/NSU and very little out of state schools. Tulsa has great aspects that I think people overlook because they really don't know about them, especially recent college grads. They are more bent on getting to somewhere like Austin because it's all they ever hear about when they could get a similar experience for the most part in Tulsa. The city always talks about how they want to retain college grads once they graduate from area colleges, the easiest way to do that is to make the city and region appealing to people from OUTSIDE Tulsa. The biggest reason a lot of my friends left wasn't because they didn't have opportunities in the city, they wanted to go somewhere that has the influx of people from other places and in Tulsa it's just people moving back from OSU/OU. This is the key that no one seems to focus on and it one of the biggest reasons why this state loses the "best and brightest" from the region. They are focusing on the small problem when they could look at the bigger picture and while going after the "big picture" they can fix the small problem at the same time, instead they're ramming their heads against the wall wondering why we are still not getting anywhere.
The Chamber should focus on diversity issues, might be able to lobby for issues with that regard not really sure what though. I would like the see the city branded as a diverse city where everyone can find their niche from having one of the largest Octoberfest's, Mayfest is a huge arts festival (goes hand in hand with a very strong arts community), a large GLBT population, the historic "Black Wallstreet", and others. It is well known what Tulsa has to offer to people in Oklahoma but once you cross the borders the education on Tulsa drops dramatically.
People don't go to Austin, or any other city, because it brands itself. The branding more or less followed the personality of the city. Austin made use of that personality in their marketing efforts. I remember long ago Austin developing that reputation and it had nothing to do with the chamber branding it as such. People simply enjoyed the music scene there and wanted to be near UT and a diverse, educated, progressive community.
I also bet that Austin has lots of UT, TT and SMU grads in their population. It doesn't hurt that Austin has 3M either.
I think you are about to hit some nerve endings with your line of thought. We, and this city in general, have spent time, money and forum space aplenty trying to figure out Tulsa's dominant personality so that we might exploit it ....with little success. Give it your best shot!
Quote from: LandArchPoke on June 24, 2011, 04:12:18 PM
This doesn't really have anything to do about lobbying, but I think Tulsa has done a horrible job at branding it's self.
I would like to see something like Austin's "Live Music Capital" or Branson (yes branson) "Live Entertainment Capital" or Vegas "Sin City" "What happens here, stays here"
The Chamber really need to focus on what makes Tulsa a great place for a young professional or young family to move here, and then go out and market especially to regional colleges. There really is a severe lack of diversity in the education of the workforce in Tulsa. It's pretty much all OSU/OU grads with TU/ORU/NSU and very little out of state schools. Tulsa has great aspects that I think people overlook because they really don't know about them, especially recent college grads. They are more bent on getting to somewhere like Austin because it's all they ever hear about when they could get a similar experience for the most part in Tulsa. The city always talks about how they want to retain college grads once they graduate from area colleges, the easiest way to do that is to make the city and region appealing to people from OUTSIDE Tulsa. The biggest reason a lot of my friends left wasn't because they didn't have opportunities in the city, they wanted to go somewhere that has the influx of people from other places and in Tulsa it's just people moving back from OSU/OU. This is the key that no one seems to focus on and it one of the biggest reasons why this state loses the "best and brightest" from the region. They are focusing on the small problem when they could look at the bigger picture and while going after the "big picture" they can fix the small problem at the same time, instead they're ramming their heads against the wall wondering why we are still not getting anywhere.
The Chamber should focus on diversity issues, might be able to lobby for issues with that regard not really sure what though. I would like the see the city branded as a diverse city where everyone can find their niche from having one of the largest Octoberfest's, Mayfest is a huge arts festival (goes hand in hand with a very strong arts community), a large GLBT population, the historic "Black Wallstreet", and others. It is well known what Tulsa has to offer to people in Oklahoma but once you cross the borders the education on Tulsa drops dramatically.
I agree somewhat with both you and aqua. We could use some "branding", but we also need to build up something to brand.
Marketing, we can do a whole lot more to market Tulsas assets without a catchy brand for now.
I also think we will be able to get more people who like living in a city type environment, once downtown takes off here in a few years. And my big concern about that is making sure we develop as a high quality, very competitive, urban environment. If done right, that can be our ticket to making Tulsa a lively, diverse, highly desirable city. We have the opportunity at this stage of our development, and with our new comprehensive plan to create a better urban environment than Austin, Dallas, Denver, etc. We could be the sh@t we just have to make it happen lol.
Back to the Tourism Taskforce thing. In another thread I talked about the guy in BA with the great Pontiac collection who was wanting to create a museum, but ended up moving his collection out of state.
I finally tracked him down and had lunch with him and his wife today for they happened to be back in town to pick up another load of items. I was curious as to why they had decided to move. The story they told was quite sad actually. Sad in that they knocked on doors here, tried all kinds of ways to get Tulsa or BA interested. Tried to see if they could do something with one of the Vision 2025 projects like Route 66, to see if BA would like the museum in their downtown, they listed a number of groups and individuals they contacted, etc. Years passed as they tried and nobody seemed interested. Nobody from the city of BA or Tulsa even came to look at their collection and see what they had.
Then one day while on a trip he stopped in Pontiac Illinois and was showing someone at one of the places there a book he had written to see if they might like to sell it and mentioned his Pontiac collection (and its more than just cars and Pontiacs for that matter). The lady he was talking to said he should talk to the Mayor. He then met the Mayor and the Mayor after talking to him for a bit said that they would love to have him open a museum there. That was last August. The city found a building for them, money to renovate it, funds to move the collection to their city, etc. and the museum will open next month. That city was like, heck yea it will go great with our Route 66 museum (not that Tulsa has any connection with Route 66) and will certainly boost our Tourism potential (not that Tulsa would ever want that either).
Ignored in one place, courted in another. Tourism Taskforce?
Artist I agree with you in the sense there really is no city like Portland in the central US. Austin is about as close as it comes but they have horrible transit issues and all the other transit systems in place like Dallas and Denver work pretty well they still lack any centralized mixed use developments in the core. Denver in my opinion will get there, it will just take a while because a lot of the downtown development has been spotty in different areas but what they have done is great. Dallas on the other hand is severally lacking on pedestrian friendly areas even with DART.
Tulsa really does have the opportunity to be the gem city in the south central US.
But back to branding. My idea is to brand it about diversity to where it doesn't matter who you are you can find something for you and it's a great long term city to where once you do settle down then you have an amazing city to raise a family. I'll have to reflect more to better explain it.
Aqua you are right, no one does go to Austin because of the branding, but it goes hand in hand. If Tulsa doesn't some how market our self to out of state young professionals then they won't know about Tulsa. Eventually they will with the development of our inner city and word of mouth does spread but why wait when we could start the exposure now. We should stop wasting so much effort on trying to market ourselves to getting kids from the state to stay here, and focus more on attracting out of state kids. Once we have the influx of people from out of state wanting to move here we have also solved the problem of getting in state kids to stay after college because the city will be attracting new diverse people. Tulsa has just as much chance distance wise to attract people from Texas Tech, SMU, Kansas Univ., K State, U of Arkansas as say Austin or other cities. We just haven't marketed ourselves to grab the attention of these people or to even make them want to visit. Once they have visited, then (hopefully) they fall in love with the city and want to move here when they graduate.
Something fascinating to add:
You may or may not know that, as part of the fall-out from the KPMG survey a few years back (which was striking in how critical it was of how local tourism is run) Visit Tulsa is undergoing a top-to-bottom audit by a destination marketing consulting company. The audit is still ongoing but the consultants have been at it awhile and have come away with some pretty substantial preliminaries, and they briefed the members of the tourism taskforce yesterday.
The consultants essentially said that, for a city its size, Tulsa is literally chock full of exceptional, well funded attractions. Not just casinos; all of our museums, gorgeous architecture, the river, the zoo, the aquarium . . . the list goes on. Getting around is relatively easy (ex construction), and we are amazingly friendly people. We are also relatively affordable. These things came up time and again as they interviewed tourists, meeting planners, and the hospitality and venue partners.
What we are lacking is concentrated and defined marketing effort for the city or the region. There's no single entry point into the city -- instead we're like "a bowl of spaghetti," [their words] making it very difficult to design and emphasize a gateway point. Consquently, we may have wayfinding signs, but that's about a fifth of the effort needed to help people get around DT. Our visitor's center is a desk in the Williams Center whereas other cities our size have visitor centers that are free standing, architecturally significant, and that serve as an obvious clearing house of information. Similarly, there're no good resources disseminated by VisitTulsa to the hotels and attractions helping to guide people around (I concur; I'm still handing out maps of downtown attractions with the NCAA logo on it). We don't have any meaningful social media presence and communication between VisitTulsa and its partners is poor. There's very little coordination. When the consultants interviewed out of town planners and attendees, they discovered that by a huge margin people navigated the city and found shopping, dining, attractions, etc by asking locals. But that creates an enormous problem because if the locals you use aren't locally literate, you're never gonna know that a given attraction (or store, or restaurant) is there. "Unless a local tells you you just don't know."
The attractions themselves aren't any better in some ways. Interestingly, on average, each of our attractions spends around 4% of their budgets on marketing, and most of those efforts stay within the region. That's comparatively a very small percentage. Overall, close to 75% of the attendees at a given attraction were locals. The people at the zoo, the aquarium, the Philbrook, the Gilcrease, etc etc . . . all were from the Tulsa area or NEOK. So we're very much not reaching people in our regional set (AR, KS, MO, TX). Similarly, when people DO come to the city for conventions or events, the vast majority stayed ONLY for the duration of their event. They didn't add days either at the beginning or end of their stays for shopping or site-seeing or whatever. They just left. This is a HUGE loss for our industry, because in other cities our size, those extra day stays are important -- and even more crucial components -- because those days are pure tourist dollars pumped into our economy.
Also interesting was a complaint of the meeting planners who turned us down for conventions and events. There were standard reasons that we all know or suspect: not enough plane flights or connectivity; not enough hotel rooms near the convention center; not much to do downtown after 5 (that showed up repeatedly as a comment); but the most interesting one to me was "Tulsa wasn't enough of a destination." The consultants saw this of a piece with their other findings, meaning not that we don't have resorts or a beach or whatever, but that we don't have a strong enough brand (yes, LandArch, a brand) outside of our tight area to help the planners sell us as their host city. The idea of "Tulsa" outside of OK is stuck in the Route 66 days, and there's not enough awareness to update that image. Hence, no one really wants to come here. Or rather, fewer people come here than could.
There's a lot more info to talk about (for instance: did you know that the largest segment of our tourism and travel industry is corporate, by far? or that most of the travelers to the area AREN'T families with children -- as some of us might perceive -- but singletons on business, and with lots of money to spend); and the final report won't be released till August, but it was very very informative and I can't wait for more of that info to get out.
That's very interesting, and makes me wonder, what can we do to attract more tourism? Destination retail? Bustling downtown/inner city? Amusement park? Major updates and expansions to our zoo?
In my opinion, we should consider all of these when trying to attract tourists. We need to try to land some major stores that would attract people from NW Arkansas, southern Kansas, Oklahoma City. A vibrant and exciting downtown is an attraction in itself. It may cause conventioneers to stay an extra day and walk around. It could attract people from more rural areas if they wanted to go to "the city" for a day. A really nice/big amusement park could snag people from all over the region. And a well above average and unique zoo could also pull in people from the surrounding region.
The good thing Is that as we have this discussion, several of these things are happenning. Downtown is expanding at a fast rate, accelerating today with the groundbreaking of one place, and improvements are being made to our zoo.
The biggest question to me is the amount of money to be spent on this. Should it be an iniitiative included in something like a Vision 2035? Or should we leave it up to the private market. Either way, we need a plan to be formed quickly, and to begin marketing ourselves.
A destination point. Mall of America is a destination for shopping. The beach is a destination. Mountains are a destination. No amount of downtown or river development, short of these dimensions, will make us a destination. I suppose if we were able to coalesce the efforts into one concept like Deco, Blues, etc that could work but not likely to happen.
Interesting results from the study and they blend with my experience of providing a tourism business a decade ago. The story of the Pontiac museum was not a surprise to me. Go to a bank, or investors, with a novel idea, a cutting edge concept, an idea that will boost tourism from out of the market area and you'll be met with indifference. Bring them a new concept restaurant and they write you a check. Tear out an old house and replace it with 4 and you're a genius.
So many times I heard the comment "there is no tourism in Tulsa, you are wasting your time" all the while I was signing up people from Chicago, England, North Carolina, OKC and rural Oklahoma. Mostly from a website and brochures. In fact most of my business came from outside Tulsa. Wedding parties, re-unions, conventions, adventurists. My problem was I couldn't get anyone around here to understand that. Even though I got lots of publicity it didn't matter. When the inevitable crunch for capital came and I succumbed to my own failure to get that message across, it merely reinforced their viewpoints.
Lots of work to be done with our own perceptions of our potential. One large success will change attitudes. But when you don't even recognize that the Arena is a success.....
We can't leave it to the private market, because there is no "it" to leave. The private market has not started this industry here for generations, what would change if we continued on that same path? Nothing. It will take the city deciding there is some value and worth to nurturing the birth of this new industry in Tulsa and then deciding what to do about it to build that industry here. I say industry because you can indeed see that it could be just like another industry like energy or aviation, or high tech and medical, bringing in jobs and money to Tulsa.
I like the ideas mentioned above like creating a better zoo, but imo you would still have to make it something with a unique twist or very special. I rarely go to zoos in other cities unless that zoo is known for being special in some way, otherwise... I have a zoo at home, why go to this one? Aquariums are a little more unique and not as common as zoos and it would be nice to add to ours in some future funding package and hopefully leverage that money to pull in some significant private donations along with it.
My personal main area of concern is how we waste our history/architectural history in the downtown and mid-town areas. Those are often starting points for many a cities tourism industry. You go downtown here and you can't get into the magnificent Churches we have and there are no times as to when you can get in as a tourist. I have gone to many a city and PAID to get inside churches that are smaller and less interesting than the ones we have here and we have a large concentration of them.
Example I have told before....
One time while trying to take photos in one of our downtown churches, (you can only get in during like Sunday services) I snuck in right after a service and was taking pictures, and then about 30 minutes afterwards while still looking for unique shots, found out I had been LOCKED INSIDE ALONE! They had their service then everyone left and they locked the doors! On a Sunday! I had to run around to the back of the church and bang on the windows to catch someones attention outside before they had all gone. The other coincidence that happened as I was in that same church that time was I ran into some other people taking pictures and found out they were Tourists from the Chicago area who had just passed through KC. They had stopped into Tulsa to specifically check out our architecture and some of the local churches. I remember the lady saying to me "You people do not realize what you have here." Essentially commenting on how we do not take advantage of the architecture we have tourism wise.
We have big tourism potential just in the Route 66 corridor. The people with the Pontiac museum were telling me about the tens if not hundreds of thousands of tourists, many from Europe, that each year travel the road wanting to see the attractions and Tulsa is right on the route they pass through. But we really do NOTHING to snag them and get them to stop as they come through. Though we don't really have much Route 66 specific items in the city guess we just think "oh they will stop" and see....? Thats not a tourism industry strategy. Again an asset we already have that we have not utilized or nurtured and grown over the years. There should be signs galore along Route 66 touting the attractions we have here, tourism information booths/kiosks at every potential stop on the road inside the city,maps showing where to go "off road" to see other attractions in the city, etc. That would just be normal procedure in every other place yet its not even on the radar here.
I could go on with more examples, but I really wonder why Tulsa has not bothered with the Tourism industry? I have gone to many a city our size or MUCH smaller and they have promoted the dickens out of what they have, which was often a LOT less than what we have to start with, and they have brought a lot of money and jobs into the area because they did "work it" and kept adding to what little they had to start with. Again, why has this not been something that Tulsa has embraced?
What is the quintessential book on Route 66? I would love to get a better idea of the road's history. Thanks!
Ok, consider this. Anecdotal so fwiw. I was told by a few insiders that there is a strong "anti" tourism sentiment among influential native Tulsans that is not actively discouraging tourism but merely ignoring what they consider to be poor quality tourism draws. Biking? Good. Running? Good. Drag Racing? Bad. Jet Ski competition? Bad. Festival? Maybe. IOW, judgments are being made as to support by the community based on our preconceived images of their followers regardless of demand.
Remember the response to the Pontiac museum? The perception was that it would appeal to hicks and rednecks. As though their money is suspect. Another example, Mayor Savage didn't want to hear the sound of boats on the river interrupting her morning jog, so, we let proposals for using Zink Lake that involved boating, like a jet ski competition, languish. Imagine, develop the river just not with any boating.
Many opportunities have simply died from lack of nurture or move to other similar welcoming venues.
Quote from: TulsaGuy on June 25, 2011, 10:31:47 AM
What is the quintessential book on Route 66? I would love to get a better idea of the road's history. Thanks!
I would say "Route 66, The Mother Road" by Tulsa's own Michael Wallis. When they made the movie "Cars", which is based on Route 66, Michael Wallis is who they used as a consultant.
"I could go on with more examples, but I really wonder why Tulsa has not bothered with the Tourism industry? I have gone to many a city our size or MUCH smaller and they have promoted the dickens out of what they have, which was often a LOT less than what we have to start with, and they have brought a lot of money and jobs into the area because they did "work it" and kept adding to what little they had to start with. Again, why has this not been something that Tulsa has embraced?" <The Artist
Why not ask Mister Mike Neal of the Tulsa Metro Chamber or visit the spot for the formation of great ideas http://www.theforge-tulsa.com/
after all you are paying for their actions.
Point about Church architecture and beauty, Toronto has far nicer cathedrals than Tulsa. And, they do not lock most of them at dark.
So, I guess, Tulsa's "A New Energy" or whatever the branding slogan is was a major FAIL?
Quote from: Conan71 on June 27, 2011, 10:21:21 AM
So, I guess, Tulsa's "A New Energy" or whatever the branding slogan is was a major FAIL?
It's the standard 5 year branding dance around reality.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 27, 2011, 10:24:29 AM
It's the standard 5 year branding dance around reality.
+1
Quote from: Okie2 on June 25, 2011, 11:43:13 AM
I would say "Route 66, The Mother Road" by Tulsa's own Michael Wallis. When they made the movie "Cars", which is based on Route 66, Michael Wallis is who they used as a consultant.
Another important read for "roadologists" is "Route 66: The Highway & It's People, by Quinta Scott & Susan Croce Kelly. It pre-dates Wallis' book by a year or two.
http://www.amazon.com/Route-66-Highway-Its-People/dp/0806122919
I first met Michael Wallis after he had published the biography of Frank Phillips (which still ranks as one of my favorite all-time reads) as he was working on his Route 66 book. The cool thing about him is the book was more about his passion for the road and the colorful personalities along it than it ever was about making money for him.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 27, 2011, 10:24:29 AM
It's the standard 5 year branding dance around reality.
"Tulsa - We're friendly pardner (maybe too friendly)"
"Come to Tulsa! Bring your car!"
"Tulsa! We have hills!"
"Tulsa, lets us edumacate ur chilrens ya'll"
"Come to Tulsa, create a crowd"
"Wow, look at our tall building"
"come get some meth, we're cooking it fresh"
Quote from: carltonplace on June 27, 2011, 11:03:57 AM
"Tulsa - We're friendly pardner (maybe too friendly)"
But not unless your partner is of the other sex.
"Come to Tulsa! Bring your car!"
Or buy a car from one of our hundred car lots on Route 66
"Tulsa! We have hills!"
There is even a new one made with trash just north of downtown.
"Tulsa, lets us edumacate ur chilrens ya'll"
We have 13 public school districts in Tulsa County alone.
"Come to Tulsa, create a crowd"
...and watch football...
"Wow, look at our tall building"
You can park next door
"come get some meth, we're cooking it fresh"
buy local
Quote from: RecycleMichael on June 27, 2011, 11:50:21 AM
"come get some meth, we're cooking it fresh"
buy local
Good one
What was enlightening to me was finding out that we have competitive attractions and overall a really good product to sell, but that we're just not selling it. Everyone in my business locally has a story about how that's not happening but it's nice to hear that the problems we've perceived are actually true.
I think our TulsaNow bias is towards building something new (which I share!) or adding something new to the portofolio (the Pontiac Museum, for instance) in the hopes that simply a big pile of stuff will translate into an nicely ordered brand. But in this case what we're actually lacking is the stuff we're most loathe to fund, which is government infrastructure. And not roads or rail, but actual people and departments and budgets to be spent on frou-frou things like "marketing."
Quote from: we vs us on June 28, 2011, 12:04:23 PM
What was enlightening to me was finding out that we have competitive attractions and overall a really good product to sell, but that we're just not selling it. Everyone in my business locally has a story about how that's not happening but it's nice to hear that the problems we've perceived are actually true.
I think our TulsaNow bias is towards building something new (which I share!) or adding something new to the portofolio (the Pontiac Museum, for instance) in the hopes that simply a big pile of stuff will translate into an nicely ordered brand. But in this case what we're actually lacking is the stuff we're most loathe to fund, which is government infrastructure. And not roads or rail, but actual people and departments and budgets to be spent on frou-frou things like "marketing."
What puzzles me is we have this award-winning (multi-time even) Chamber of Commerce which gets millions every year in hotel/motel taxes to ostensibly market the city. What kind of ROI are we getting? Sounds like zilch to me.
And people wonder why so many of us hold the TMC in such high contempt.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 28, 2011, 12:21:41 PM
What puzzles me is we have this award-winning (multi-time even) Chamber of Commerce which gets millions every year in hotel/motel taxes to ostensibly market the city. What kind of ROI are we getting? Sounds like zilch to me.
And people wonder why so many of us hold the TMC in such high contempt.
The CVB-Metro Chamber relationship is not common, and destination marketing isn't considered a core mission of the Chamber . . . which is why they can be award-winning in other areas but still fall short in supporting the CVB. In fact that's one of the big raging debates going on right now: let the CVB run its own shop or keep it under Chamber mgmt. The KPMG study that came out last year was scathing about CVB-Chamber arrangement and suggested it be terminated immediately, but the current consultants haven't come out on either side of the issue.
Quote from: we vs us on June 28, 2011, 01:20:27 PM
The CVB-Metro Chamber relationship is not common, and destination marketing isn't considered a core mission of the Chamber . . . which is why they can be award-winning in other areas but still fall short in supporting the CVB. In fact that's one of the big raging debates going on right now: let the CVB run its own shop or keep it under Chamber mgmt. The KPMG study that came out last year was scathing about CVB-Chamber arrangement and suggested it be terminated immediately, but the current consultants haven't come out on either side of the issue.
Who is paying for the current consultants? That might have something to do with it.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 28, 2011, 01:27:02 PM
Who is paying for the current consultants? That might have something to do with it.
The city, I think . . . co-funded by the THLA (Tulsa Hotel and Lodging Association).
Quote from: we vs us on June 28, 2011, 01:49:48 PM
The city, I think . . . co-funded by the THLA (Tulsa Hotel and Lodging Association).
That's encouraging because I can't believe the hotel and lodging assoc. thinks it's getting its moneys worth under the current arrangement.
I'm amazed at how many ads run in Tulsa for Springfield, MO and Fantastic Caverns (I grew up in Springfiled, trust me, those caverns are not fantastic). Yet when I'm in Springfield I never see ads for Tulsa or even Oklahoma. In fact, the only place I ever see ads for Oklahoma is in Oklaoma. I get the idea of keeping tourist dollars home, but come on.
Quote from: DTowner on June 28, 2011, 02:50:19 PM
That's encouraging because I can't believe the hotel and lodging assoc. thinks it's getting its moneys worth under the current arrangement.
If I knew any of them, I'd ask.
http://www.tulsahotels.org/board-of-directors/ (http://www.tulsahotels.org/board-of-directors/)
Quote from: Townsend on June 28, 2011, 02:57:41 PM
If I knew any of them, I'd ask.
http://www.tulsahotels.org/board-of-directors/ (http://www.tulsahotels.org/board-of-directors/)
I do, and I have. And yeah, generally quite unhappy. Hence the study.
For what it's worth.
Makes perfect sense to create a "Quiet Zone" for the business owners DT and then allow the "Mortar shells" and "Rocket Launchers" to ramp up.
That is exactly what it sounds like.
If you are in a business DT enjoying a $100.+ dinner nothing like shell shock and the sound of explosions to cap off the evening.
It boils down to, the trains are a peaceful sound. Loud but peaceful.
An explosion is never a peaceful sound.
Try explaining to a visitor, to Tulsa, that your City is so sensitive to the people visiting the entertainment District, that it did away with the annoying sound of trains in lieu of the sound of bombs.
Quote from: Truman on July 03, 2011, 11:51:23 AM
Try explaining to a visitor, to Tulsa, that your City is so sensitive to the people visiting the entertainment District, that it did away with the annoying sound of trains in lieu of the sound of bombs.
what
Are you referring to fireworks displays at Drillers Stadium?
Quote from: we vs us on July 03, 2011, 12:05:10 PM
what
You didn't know about the bombs? Sheesh, get your head out of the sand. :P
So that everything is "mis en plas" and to add another variable to this, lets add
zip code of the residence of the respondents.
I'll start 74103
Maybe the word bomb is a bit extreme. Lets use just the sound as being somewhat similar to a mortar blast.
Quote from: Truman on July 03, 2011, 11:51:23 AM
If you are in a business DT enjoying a $100.+ dinner nothing like shell shock and the sound of explosions to cap off the evening.
I have a squeaky wallet. I would have a difficult time
enjoying a $100. (or plus) dinner in any environment.
Quote from: Truman on July 03, 2011, 08:08:25 PM
So that everything is "mis en plas" and to add another variable to this, lets add
zip code of the residence of the respondents.
I'll start 74103
Maybe the word bomb is a bit extreme. Lets use just the sound as being somewhat similar to a mortar blast.
That would be called the Drillers Friday Fireworks. They've been doing this all season now.
Quote from: Red Arrow on July 03, 2011, 09:28:44 PM
I have a squeaky wallet. I would have a difficult time enjoying a $100. (or plus) dinner in any environment.
+1
Quote from: Red Arrow on July 03, 2011, 09:28:44 PM
I have a squeaky wallet. I would have a difficult time enjoying a $100. (or plus) dinner in any environment.
It's OK when it's OPM.
Quote from: Truman on July 03, 2011, 08:08:25 PM
So that everything is "mis en plas" and to add another variable to this, lets add
zip code of the residence of the respondents.
I'll start 74103
Maybe the word bomb is a bit extreme. Lets use just the sound as being somewhat similar to a mortar blast.
I am nearby in 74119 and it is no distraction at all. Our big booms are concrete trucks and refinery processes. All part of the life of a city.
Quote from: AquaMan on July 04, 2011, 08:52:24 AM
I am nearby in 74119 and it is no distraction at all. Our big booms are concrete trucks and refinery processes. All part of the life of a city.
Agreed. I'm still not sure what Truman's referring to, but if it's fireworks over Driller's Stadium, then I say bring 'em on. Fireworks = tourist and resident draw ("Hey! what's happening over at the baseball stadium? Fireworks? Awesome!"). Train whistles = TOTAL buzzkill ("It's 3 oclock in the morning, the whistles are going off every 30 minutes, and I have to be in front of a board meeting at 8am. I freakin' hate downtown Tulsa.")
Some big noises are good big noises. Other big noises are bad big noises. It's all about context.
Dear Truman:
There will be fireworks tonight. Don't be scared.
That makes things so much better. If I could only remember your baseball schedule.
Fireworks trigger stress in war vets
For those with PTSD, festivities are the sounds and smells of combat
By Andy Grimm, Tribune reporter
July 2, 2011
The random pop-pop-pop of firecrackers will reach its seasonal peak with Monday's Fourth of July celebrations, but this most patriotic — and pyrotechnic — holiday can drive many combat veterans away from parade routes and picnics.
Rather than hang around the house for barbecues with friends, some veterans who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder seek out quiet places away from fireworks, which can set off flashbacks, anxiety and hyperawareness.
"If you are lighting off a firecracker in your neighborhood, there's a very good chance that there is a veteran within earshot," said Dr. John Mundt, a psychologist at Jesse Brown VA Medical Center in Chicago, whose PTSD support groups have devoted several sessions in the last few weeks to coping with the July Fourth fireworks barrage.
"To someone with PSTD, it can sound like small arms fire."
An estimated 11 to 20 percent of Iraq and Afghanistan war vets and nearly a third of Vietnam vets suffer symptoms of PTSD — a figure that means if you light off an M-80 in an urban area like Chicago, there's likely a veteran nearby.
The random, small explosions of bottle rockets and firecrackers pose more of a threat to veterans' peace of mind than a massive municipal fireworks display, Mundt said. When vets can anticipate when and where the noise will come from, and they're in the firework-watching state of mind, they can enjoy a display like the ones at Navy Pier.
But lighting a string of Black Cats at random intervals or shooting off bottle rockets in the middle of the night can trigger in veterans the hyperalertness and adrenaline rush of combat. That conditioned response can set a PTSD sufferer on edge for hours, or trigger memories that lead to depression that will last well past the holidays, Mundt said.
Former Navy Seabee John E. Baker spent parts of two years in Iraq manning a mortar, launching shells and ducking small arms fire from insurgents. For weeks Baker's South Side neighborhood has been filled with festive explosions, and the crackle of a string of firecrackers outside his apartment sets off the same reflexive adrenaline surge as the enemy fire he faced some six years ago.
"You figure out what it is real quick, but you get the tingling, my heart starts racing fast," said Baker, 30. "It might just be for three seconds but it feels like 10 minutes. It can take you away, and you're not there anymore."
Jol Gerardot, a National Guardsman, lives in Crown Point, Ind., where fireworks laws are more liberal than in Illinois. He even enjoys launching fireworks himself, the bigger the better. But when he's sound asleep, a late night volley of firecrackers sends him shooting out of bed..
"I'll be running to the window, looking for my rifle until I realize where I am," said Gerardot, who is still in the Guard after tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. "You don't go back to sleep for hours after that."
Christopher Packley, a 28-year-old former Marine from Morris, said even the smell of gunpowder can trigger powerful memories of his time as a sniper in Iraq during the siege of Fallujah more than seven years ago.
"Fireworks kind of smell like C-4 (a powerful explosive). Bottle rockets sort of sound like an RPG (rocket-propelled grenade)," Packley said.
"I know the difference between fireworks and the real thing, but that doesn't stop the reactions."
Packley acknowledges the sort of people who launch fireworks at all hours aren't considerate enough to worry about annoying their neighbors, much less tormenting nearby veterans. But, he hopes, perhaps an appeal to patriotism on the Fourth of July will give some people a reason to knock off their impromptu displays.
"In most neighborhoods, you know if there's a veteran that lives by you," he said. "I would hope people would think of that before they shoot something off in the middle of the night."
Quote from: Truman on July 05, 2011, 06:53:28 PM
That makes things so much better. If I could only remember your baseball schedule.
Fireworks trigger stress in war vets
For those with PTSD, festivities are the sounds and smells of combat
By Andy Grimm, Tribune reporter
July 2, 2011
The random pop-pop-pop of firecrackers will reach its seasonal peak with Monday's Fourth of July celebrations, but this most patriotic — and pyrotechnic — holiday can drive many combat veterans away from parade routes and picnics.
Rather than hang around the house for barbecues with friends, some veterans who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder seek out quiet places away from fireworks, which can set off flashbacks, anxiety and hyperawareness.
"If you are lighting off a firecracker in your neighborhood, there's a very good chance that there is a veteran within earshot," said Dr. John Mundt, a psychologist at Jesse Brown VA Medical Center in Chicago, whose PTSD support groups have devoted several sessions in the last few weeks to coping with the July Fourth fireworks barrage.
"To someone with PSTD, it can sound like small arms fire."
An estimated 11 to 20 percent of Iraq and Afghanistan war vets and nearly a third of Vietnam vets suffer symptoms of PTSD — a figure that means if you light off an M-80 in an urban area like Chicago, there's likely a veteran nearby.
The random, small explosions of bottle rockets and firecrackers pose more of a threat to veterans' peace of mind than a massive municipal fireworks display, Mundt said. When vets can anticipate when and where the noise will come from, and they're in the firework-watching state of mind, they can enjoy a display like the ones at Navy Pier.
But lighting a string of Black Cats at random intervals or shooting off bottle rockets in the middle of the night can trigger in veterans the hyperalertness and adrenaline rush of combat. That conditioned response can set a PTSD sufferer on edge for hours, or trigger memories that lead to depression that will last well past the holidays, Mundt said.
Former Navy Seabee John E. Baker spent parts of two years in Iraq manning a mortar, launching shells and ducking small arms fire from insurgents. For weeks Baker's South Side neighborhood has been filled with festive explosions, and the crackle of a string of firecrackers outside his apartment sets off the same reflexive adrenaline surge as the enemy fire he faced some six years ago.
"You figure out what it is real quick, but you get the tingling, my heart starts racing fast," said Baker, 30. "It might just be for three seconds but it feels like 10 minutes. It can take you away, and you're not there anymore."
Jol Gerardot, a National Guardsman, lives in Crown Point, Ind., where fireworks laws are more liberal than in Illinois. He even enjoys launching fireworks himself, the bigger the better. But when he's sound asleep, a late night volley of firecrackers sends him shooting out of bed..
"I'll be running to the window, looking for my rifle until I realize where I am," said Gerardot, who is still in the Guard after tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. "You don't go back to sleep for hours after that."
Christopher Packley, a 28-year-old former Marine from Morris, said even the smell of gunpowder can trigger powerful memories of his time as a sniper in Iraq during the siege of Fallujah more than seven years ago.
"Fireworks kind of smell like C-4 (a powerful explosive). Bottle rockets sort of sound like an RPG (rocket-propelled grenade)," Packley said.
"I know the difference between fireworks and the real thing, but that doesn't stop the reactions."
Packley acknowledges the sort of people who launch fireworks at all hours aren't considerate enough to worry about annoying their neighbors, much less tormenting nearby veterans. But, he hopes, perhaps an appeal to patriotism on the Fourth of July will give some people a reason to knock off their impromptu displays.
"In most neighborhoods, you know if there's a veteran that lives by you," he said. "I would hope people would think of that before they shoot something off in the middle of the night."
Ohhhh....Kay..... last I checked the Drillers avoided shooting those fireworks off at 4 a.m.
LOL.
you must have missed this part
QuoteWhen vets can anticipate when and where the noise will come from, and they're in the firework-watching state of mind, they can enjoy a display like the ones at Navy Pier.
Last I checked, they have a readily available schedule that says when they will have fireworks, not to mention it's not exactly a hard pattern to figure out.
Quote from: AquaMan on July 04, 2011, 08:52:24 AM
I am nearby in 74119 and it is no distraction at all. Our big booms are concrete trucks and refinery processes. All part of the life of a city.
Another 74119 here: we do get some booms from the railroad yards at SW BLVD when they connect the cars, but overall my hood is pretty quiet other than the occasional siren. Its certainly much nicer now that the choo-choos are silent when they head through down town.
Quote from: carltonplace on July 06, 2011, 09:53:57 AM
Another 74119 here: we do get some booms from the railroad yards at SW BLVD when they connect the cars, but overall my hood is pretty quiet other than the occasional siren. Its certainly much nicer now that the choo-choos are silent when they head through down town.
We used to hear those rowing crew boats and megaphones. Not exactly a disruptive sound but surprising how far they carry. Course with no water in the river this year that has subsided.
Quote from: AquaMan on July 06, 2011, 10:31:11 AM
We used to hear those rowing crew boats and megaphones. Not exactly a disruptive sound but surprising how far they carry. Course with no water in the river this year that has subsided.
Their oars hitting and digging into the sand bars make a distinctive sound.
Quote from: Townsend on July 06, 2011, 10:32:35 AM
Their oars hitting and digging into the sand bars make a distinctive sound.
So does knocking off the skeg or bending a rudder, you can't miss the unmistakable "oh smile!"
Quote from: AquaMan on July 06, 2011, 10:31:11 AM
We used to hear those rowing crew boats and megaphones. Not exactly a disruptive sound but surprising how far they carry. Course with no water in the river this year that has subsided.
and occassional festival music from Veteran's park or River West or live music at Elwood's/River's Edge..these carry well and make my neighborhood fun.
I did jump out of bed early one morning when they fired a cannon to start the R66 marathon! I probably should have been up early to run the marathon anyway. :D