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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: Hoss on May 10, 2011, 10:15:03 AM

Title: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Hoss on May 10, 2011, 10:15:03 AM
Wow.  If this doesn't say how arcane our alcohol laws are in this state, not sure what else to say.  Got this on my FB page via Marshall Brewing company:

QuoteFrom our friends at the Oklahoma Craft Beer Festival: "ATTN Craft Beer Lovers: The ABLE Commission has informed us that our event is illegal. We are trying to figure out a way to keep the event on track, but it is not looking very good. They made us suspend tickets sales last Friday. Hopefully we are able to figure this out today. If not, we might have to postpone until next year. Stay tuned."

And Gas, I was on the chat on the Channel 6/9 page they had on last Friday or whenever it was discussing changing the laws.  You made good points and I agreed with nearly everything you had to say regarding it.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Conan71 on May 10, 2011, 10:16:40 AM
Jack-boot thugs.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Townsend on May 10, 2011, 10:17:35 AM
(guttural sound of disgust)  they suck.

Over
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: carltonplace on May 10, 2011, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: Townsend on May 10, 2011, 10:17:35 AM
(guttural sound of disgust)  they suck.

Over

way to diss able
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Townsend on May 10, 2011, 10:21:31 AM
Quote from: carltonplace on May 10, 2011, 10:20:06 AM
way to diss able

Where is Cain?  Can someone call him up to take care of these pudknockers?
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: dbacks fan on May 10, 2011, 10:43:36 AM
Quote from: Townsend on May 10, 2011, 10:21:31 AM
Where is Cain?  Can someone call him up to take care of these pudknockers?
:D ;D
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Hoss on May 10, 2011, 12:22:29 PM
Here's an update:

http://blog.newsok.com/thirstybeagle/2011/05/10/update-on-oklahoma-craft-beer-festival/
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: dbacks fan on May 10, 2011, 12:39:02 PM
Quote from: Hoss on May 10, 2011, 12:22:29 PM
Here's an update:

http://blog.newsok.com/thirstybeagle/2011/05/10/update-on-oklahoma-craft-beer-festival/

Just at a loss for words. Guess members of the ABLE Comm don't leave their mommas basements much.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: JCnOwasso on May 10, 2011, 01:12:15 PM
So to sell strong beer outside of Tapwerks, they need an additional permit from Able... However, since they already hold a strong beer permit, they cannot get another permit. 

I am confused about the whole inside outside pricing thing... If someone else is having to get the permit for the festival, how is TapWerks having to justify pricing or come up with creative methods for pricing? 

We are in the 21st century, right? 
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: DolfanBob on May 10, 2011, 01:24:41 PM
You know, I love being from here and most of the time living here. But when it comes to our liquor laws and toll roads. It just twists my tit when I go to a normal State. i.e. Texas or Florida. And see how it could really be done here.
And i'm sure they have their problems too, but once Oklahoma does something and realizes that there is a ton of money to be made. You can pretty much forget about the ol boy law makers changing it for the better.
I still cant believe how we screwed up liquor by the drink back in the 80s but leave it to Oklahoma to figure out how to do it.

I see where they are going to stop using children in the lottery commercials. Well hell ya they should stop since colleges are the only ones benefiting from the lottery.
Try selling them tickets with grown @ss kid's in cap and gown on those ads.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: TheTed on May 10, 2011, 01:31:32 PM
Quote from: DolfanBob on May 10, 2011, 01:24:41 PM
... a normal State. i.e. Texas or Florida. ...

Whoa! Hold up there, partner.

Texas may be slightly better than us, but it's far from a normal state. There's a beerfest in Dallas this weekend. They can't say what they're serving because of liquor laws.

And at least you can get 3.2 beer in every county in Oklahoma. When you get out in rural Texas, see how normal you think their beer laws are. A visit to Big Sandy, Texas will clear that up. Population: 1,200. But they have about a dozen liquor stores because they're surrounded by dry counties.

Even parts of Dallas are dry, or so I've heard. And liquor stores aren't open after 9pm or on Sundays. Missouri is where it's at. Very few restrictions. You can buy a freaking pint of Jack at QT, on a Sunday. That would make the heads of Oklahomans and Texans explode.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: dbacks fan on May 10, 2011, 01:42:56 PM
Quote from: TheTed on May 10, 2011, 01:31:32 PM
You can buy a freaking pint of Jack at QT, on a Sunday. That would make the heads of Oklahomans and Texans explode.

No, bring them to a grocery store here and take the into the walk in beer cooler so you can get a fresh keg of real beer. Even Circle K expanded and remodeled stores to have walk in beer coolers. Or to really make their heads explode, a grocery or liquor store that has wine and spirit tasting every weekend.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: custosnox on May 10, 2011, 05:43:36 PM
where is the petition to get our own bill on the ballet to change these laws?
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: DolfanBob on May 10, 2011, 05:46:46 PM
Ted you are absolutly right about Texas.
I would like to print up and sell wet and dry county maps for that State.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Conan71 on May 10, 2011, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: custosnox on May 10, 2011, 05:43:36 PM
where is the petition to get our own bill on the ballet to change these laws?

Never happens because the mobbed up bastards liquor distributorships collude conspire er work hand-in-hand with ABLE and the Ok. State legislature to protect their monopolistic partnership us from ourselves
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Hoss on May 10, 2011, 06:10:50 PM
Looks like enough people spoke up about it..from their Facebook site:

QuoteGREAT NEWS Oklahoma!!!!!! Due to the voice of all of you and others this festival will take place just as planned. BIG thanks goes out to the Oklahoma regional food bank and the ABLE commission and TapWerks for helping to make this event possible!!!"
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Conan71 on May 10, 2011, 06:11:52 PM
Sure someone isn't dreaming ABLE never seems to do anything practical nor fun.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: dbacks fan on May 10, 2011, 06:20:20 PM
Did I just hear sound of people fainting? ABLE bent the rules? Am I on Candid Camera?
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Hoss on May 10, 2011, 06:20:47 PM
Sorry for a bit of thread drift here (I'm allowed, I started the thread LOL), but Scott and I were on a Newson6 live chat last week where there were some really spirited debaters as it regards the law changing.  The news piece wound up being done, with smaller liquor stores and distributors complaining the most about how it would hurt their business and how it's bad to make strong beer more easily available to minors if it were sold in the liquor stores.  I said if kids could get it fairly easy when I was 19, what's stopping them now?

A compromise for me would be this:

Continue the same format for where strong beer is sold, with four modifications:

1.  Allow liquor stores to refrigerate their beers.  As it stands now, some brewers won't ship to Oklahoma (Fat Tire) because they don't refrigerate.
2.  Allow sales on Sunday, even if it's noon to six pm.
3.  Allow expanded hours Monday-Saturday, to at least the same time the bars close (2am).  Just never makes sense to allow Oklahomans to drink in a bar until 2am and not be able to buy in the stores or liquor stores.  I'm sure then the bar lobby will start complaining, but hey..
4.  Allow children of patrons to come in.  Why do we treat liquor stores like adult book stores in this state?
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: DolfanBob on May 11, 2011, 08:38:17 AM
I really dont care about all the liquor store concerns or wine being sold in the grocery stores, time limits on purchases, cold Jack Daniels or little Timmy standing next to me as I get my hammer juice.

I want all the 3.2 puke beer done away with. i.e. Bud, Coors, Busch etc. etc.
Hell I dont even care if Mom and Pop sell it hot in their ABLE protected business.
Our State is not known for the other little goofy liquor laws that we argue over and lump together with this problem as to keep it from happening.
Matt Dillon even made a reference to it in the movie TEX. How embarrassing.

Someone please explain to me again how I can go and buy a cold Heineken at the grocery store and then turn around and go buy a stronger one hot at the liquor store. But yet I can not do that with the above mentioned brands.
Problem being is you always want something worse, that you cant have.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: rdj on May 11, 2011, 10:22:18 AM
Quote from: TheTed on May 10, 2011, 01:31:32 PM


Even parts of Dallas are dry, or so I've heard.

The "dry" or "wet" isn't necessarily decided by county boundaries but by the Justice of the Peace boundaries.  As a result you had pockets of the metroplex that were dry.  As an example, Irving was dry, which didn't seem to hurt the Cowboys...  The citizens voted last year to make the entire county wet.  The biggest donor to the PAC fighting the referendum?  Liquor stores.  Oh the irony!  They knew they'd lose business if a liquor store could now open across the street.  Capitalism and democracy at work.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: TheTed on May 11, 2011, 12:53:21 PM
This thread makes me want to save all my out of state liquor store receipts for a year, copy them and mail them to ABLE, my elected representatives, the governor and the liquor store cabal along with a photo of my middle finger.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: nathanm on May 11, 2011, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: DolfanBob on May 11, 2011, 08:38:17 AM
Someone please explain to me again how I can go and buy a cold Heineken at the grocery store and then turn around and go buy a stronger one hot at the liquor store. But yet I can not do that with the above mentioned brands.
Problem being is you always want something worse, that you cant have.
Easy, the big breweries know their beer doesn't taste very good cold, much less warm, so they refuse to sell beer to establishments that can't keep it cold. And the liquor stores can't sell 3.2 because they can only sell intoxicating liquor here. It was so awful being exposed to the liquor store's outrageous pricing on Coca-Cola, Pineapple Juice, and other mixers when I lived in Arkansas. Almost as bad as going to Missouri and buying Patron in a gas station. ::)

Some people claim that the breweries will only sell one kind of beer in a given state, but that's not accurate. Colorado, to use one example, gets strong in liquor stores and 3.2 in C-Stores. Stupidly, liquor stores can't buy 3.2 on their liquor license. It makes programming route sales handhelds that have to work in multiple states a rather interesting project. I'm just glad I was only doing 5 states and not 50.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: TheTed on May 11, 2011, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 11, 2011, 02:14:39 PM
Some people claim that the breweries will only sell one kind of beer in a given state, but that's not accurate. Colorado, to use one example, gets strong in liquor stores and 3.2 in C-Stores. Stupidly, liquor stores can't buy 3.2 on their liquor license. It makes programming route sales handhelds that have to work in multiple states a rather interesting project. I'm just glad I was only doing 5 states and not 50.


I think Kansas is the same. 3.2 in gas stations, full strength in liquor stores. I don't care about grocery store sales, and I'm not sure why people are focused on that. Just allow liquor stores to sell regular beer cold and for more reasonable hours. That would seem to be an easier sell to the liquor store mafia, wouldn't it? They'd make more money, as people like me wouldn't have to go out of state to get a lot of the decent craft brews.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Conan71 on May 11, 2011, 03:27:50 PM
Quote from: TheTed on May 11, 2011, 12:53:21 PM
This thread makes me want to save all my out of state liquor store receipts for a year, copy them and mail them to ABLE, my elected representatives, the governor and the liquor store cabal along with a photo of my middle finger.

Do it anonymously, otherwise I'm sure some a**hole at ABLE would have you arrested for bootlegging.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Townsend on May 11, 2011, 03:33:45 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 11, 2011, 03:27:50 PM
Do it anonymously, otherwise I'm sure some a**hole at ABLE would have you arrested for bootlegging.

Woops, I wouldn't answer that knock on your door this evening.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: custosnox on May 11, 2011, 05:42:12 PM
Quote from: TheTed on May 11, 2011, 03:02:38 PM
I think Kansas is the same. 3.2 in gas stations, full strength in liquor stores. I don't care about grocery store sales, and I'm not sure why people are focused on that. Just allow liquor stores to sell regular beer cold and for more reasonable hours. That would seem to be an easier sell to the liquor store mafia, wouldn't it? They'd make more money, as people like me wouldn't have to go out of state to get a lot of the decent craft brews.
The thing with Grocery store sales are those that would like to pick up a bottle of wine while shopping for dinner.  I like the way they have it down in New Mexico, where they liquor is in a completely seperate section of the store, more like a liquor store inside the store.  I could live with that kind of set up, as long as this whole idea of not being able to sell high point beer cold goes away and you can buy a corkscrew in the same spote as the wine.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Conan71 on May 11, 2011, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: custosnox on May 11, 2011, 05:42:12 PM
The thing with Grocery store sales are those that would like to pick up a bottle of wine while shopping for dinner.  I like the way they have it down in New Mexico, where they liquor is in a completely seperate section of the store, more like a liquor store inside the store.  I could live with that kind of set up, as long as this whole idea of not being able to sell high point beer goes away and you can buy a corkscrew in the same spote as the wine.


There's a lot more about New Mexico which makes better sense than Oklahoma to me, but I digress.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Red Arrow on May 11, 2011, 08:30:58 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 11, 2011, 03:27:50 PM
Do it anonymously, otherwise I'm sure some a**hole at ABLE would have you arrested for bootlegging.

He didn't actually say he brought the beverages back to Oklahoma.  It's possible he went to the other states, drank there, stayed for a while and then returned sober to Oklahoma with a pocket full of receipts.

Possible but not very probable.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: custosnox on May 11, 2011, 08:33:04 PM
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 11, 2011, 08:30:58 PM
He didn't actually say he brought the beverages back to Oklahoma.  It's possible he went to the other states, drank there, stayed for a while and then returned sober to Oklahoma with a pocket full of receipts.

Possible but not very probable.
Or he could have brought it back one liter at a time for personal use
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Boozepusher on May 12, 2011, 02:36:14 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 11, 2011, 02:14:39 PM
Easy, the big breweries know their beer doesn't taste very good cold, much less warm, so they refuse to sell beer to establishments that can't keep it cold. And the liquor stores can't sell 3.2 because they can only sell intoxicating liquor here. It was so awful being exposed to the liquor store's outrageous pricing on Coca-Cola, Pineapple Juice, and other mixers when I lived in Arkansas. Almost as bad as going to Missouri and buying Patron in a gas station. ::)

Some people claim that the breweries will only sell one kind of beer in a given state, but that's not accurate. Colorado, to use one example, gets strong in liquor stores and 3.2 in C-Stores. Stupidly, liquor stores can't buy 3.2 on their liquor license. It makes programming route sales handhelds that have to work in multiple states a rather interesting project. I'm just glad I was only doing 5 states and not 50.


This isn't entirely accurate.  Oklahoma doesn't allow franchising when it comes to strong beer, wine and spirits.  So if the big breweries (Bud, Miller, Coors) want to ship to Oklahoma they have to ship it to an independent distributor.  They do not want to do this, they want to set up their on distributorships.  So they only ship 3.2 because they can set up their own distributorships with  3.2 beer.   I hope that makes sense.


As you can probably tell from my screen name I am a liquor store owner.  I would like to see wine, strong beer and spirits in convenience and grocery stores. In return liquor stores should be able to sell non-liquor products including tobacco.  I feel that if we are going to change the current system let's have a real free market system.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Hoss on May 12, 2011, 02:53:31 PM
Quote from: Boozepusher on May 12, 2011, 02:36:14 PM
This isn't entirely accurate.  Oklahoma doesn't allow franchising when it comes to strong beer, wine and spirits.  So if the big breweries (Bud, Miller, Coors) want to ship to Oklahoma they have to ship it to an independent distributor.  They do not want to do this, they want to set up their on distributorships.  So they only ship 3.2 because they can set up their own distributorships with  3.2 beer.   I hope that makes sense.


As you can probably tell from my screen name I am a liquor store owner.  I would like to see wine, strong beer and spirits in convenience and grocery stores. In return liquor stores should be able to sell non-liquor products including tobacco.  I feel that if we are going to change the current system let's have a real free market system.

Were you one of the people on the Channel 6 Tulsa/channel 9 OKC chat last week?
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Boozepusher on May 12, 2011, 03:26:10 PM
No, I haven't been on any chats.  At least not that I remember.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: nathanm on May 12, 2011, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Boozepusher on May 12, 2011, 02:36:14 PM
As you can probably tell from my screen name I am a liquor store owner.  I would like to see wine, strong beer and spirits in convenience and grocery stores. In return liquor stores should be able to sell non-liquor products including tobacco.  I feel that if we are going to change the current system let's have a real free market system.
I agree 100%.
Title: Re: More ABLE silliness...
Post by: Conan71 on May 12, 2011, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 12, 2011, 03:31:39 PM
I agree 100%.

+100