Now RibCrib is in the Blue Dome mix with their announcement that they're going to open in the old Met warehouse at the corner of 1st and Detroit.
So by my count that makes three BBQ joints openning in the Blue Dome District. Back Alley is openning up in a matter of months and Albert G's announced a shop over east of McNellies.
Back Alley seems like it's going to cater to a different crowd than Rib Crib, maybe more of a late-night crowd as well. I'm not sure about Albert Gs though it seems like it may compete with Rib Crib for the same folks.
I think it's great that there's this sort of attention focussed on downtown. In the end, Tulsa will have three commercial spaces renovated and activated. The three will contribute to the synergy that is Blue Dome. That's a win for downtown and for Tulsa.
All 3 were discussed back in March on here:
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=17249.30
My prediction: Albert G's will fail. Rib Crib will succeed, but it will be catering to the same crowd for goes to places like Lyon's Indian Store while Back Alley will succeed catering to the people who've made the blue dome popular. Two different crowds.
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 04, 2011, 09:58:33 AM
All 3 were discussed back in March on here:
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=17249.30
My prediction: Albert G's will fail. Rib Crib will succeed, but it will be catering to the same crowd for goes to places like Lyon's Indian Store while Back Alley will succeed catering to the people who've made the blue dome popular. Two different crowds.
Why will Albert G's fail?
I have no horse here, just curious. I've never tried it.
Rib Crib is consistent, dry and blah. The name recognition goes far here.
Albert G's won't fail. People who appreciate great Q will support it, as well they are going to have bar service if I've heard correctly. Albert G's is consistently the best in Tulsa.
Rib Crib can afford to float this one for awhile if it's slow to take off and as mentioned the name recognition will keep people coming in. It's the McDonald's effect. It's not spectacular, but it's consistent and there are some people who aren't complete Q snobs who don't notice the difference from one place to another.
Bret Chandler and Chuck Gawey have close to 20 years in the business and have had a chance to perfect their brands and food.
I'm a big believer in Blake Ewing, but to be perfectly honest, Back Alley is the big question mark out of the three and has the greatest risk of failure, IMO. They are going to have to have great Q out of the box and that's not an easy task. It's easy to have a bad day in that business or to mis-judge your volume and serve some slightly under done and tough. There's a huge difference between pizza and BBQ. I think Back Alley will do great if the food and service are there. I'm simply saying, they've got the biggest risk as they are new to the genre.
Rib Crib should and probably will also focus on downtown catering which will also keep them steady. I'm not a big fan of their food, and will be excited to eat at G's, but I think both will do well. I hope, even living in South Tulsa now (GASP) we still spend a lot of time hanging out downtown, I work down here and we enjoy coming down on weekends as well
Back Alley will depend on the food 80%. It hasn't been proven yet. So if its good it will do great. It (should) be crap tons more fun than the other two. On that note, Back Alley will have live music and a small stage. That will not be too hard to duplicate that in any other location.
The one time I have been to Albert G's and squeezed through their poorly designed gas station restaurant. My meat wasn't very warm (during a busy lunch).
Quote from: Townsend on May 04, 2011, 10:03:00 AM
Why will Albert G's fail?
I have no horse here, just curious. I've never tried it.
Rib Crib is consistent, dry and blah. The name recognition goes far here.
I tried it and it was overpriced crap. The meat wasn't bad but kinda dry and pretty flavorless. The sauce was ketchup with pepper added. All for $18 before drink and tax for my plate. For that I can feed a family of four with better food at Wrangler's.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 10:12:55 AM
They are going to have to have great Q out of the box and that's not an easy task. It's easy to have a bad day in that business or to mis-judge your volume and serve some slightly under done and tough. There's a huge difference between pizza and BBQ. I think Back Alley will do great if the food and service are there. I'm simply saying, they've got the biggest risk as they are new to the genre.
+1
On the Money!
BBQ is probably the hardest food to be consistent with. Too many factors go into delivering it fresh.
10 minutes separates great ribs/brisket/chicken from trash.
You can only keep meat on the steam table for so long before you have to toss it or risk serving leather. If you are attune to the quality of the product you serve, you need to be willing to throw a ton of stuff away and have the tolerance to loose a lot of money before you get things dialed in perfectly.
Even then, one bad day can tank your whole operation. People are as willing to talk about the bad BBQ as much as they are the good, and a poor review can live for ever.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 10:21:56 AM
+1
On the Money!
BBQ is probably the hardest food to be consistent with. Too many factors go into delivering it fresh.
10 minutes separates great ribs/brisket/chicken from trash.
You can only keep meat on the steam table for so long before you have to toss it or risk serving leather. If you are attune to the quality of the product you serve, you need to be willing to throw a ton of stuff away and have the tolerance to loose a lot of money before you get things dialed in perfectly.
Even then, one bad day can tank your whole operation. People are as willing to talk about the bad BBQ as much as they are the good, and a poor review can live for ever.
I tried Wilson's on 11th several times for lunch and each time the brisket was incredibly dry. Almost as if they were re-heating it. Go to the one on Apache and you don't seem to have that issue. Much of Wilson's growth and success over the years was J.B. Wilson. BBQ is an art and you have to have a passion for it to do it right. That's what's missing from a chain like Rib Crib is you don't get that passion in every bite.
Obviously everyone has their own preferences in BBQ much like Mexican. Grizzle completely panned Albert G's but loves Wranglers. I'm pretty meh on Wranglers. Doesn't make either of us wrong, it's just differing tastes.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 10:37:52 AM
Obviously everyone has their own preferences in BBQ much like Mexican. Grizzle completely panned Albert G's but loves Wranglers. I'm pretty meh on Wranglers. Doesn't make either of us wrong, it's just differing tastes.
BBQ is much like Mexican, in that I'll eat every kind from everywhere. I just think I'll run into Rib Crib and get a Cribwich for lunch and be out the door for <$10 than I ever will go to Albert G's
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 04, 2011, 10:41:45 AM
BBQ is much like Mexican, in that I'll eat every kind from everywhere. I just think I'll run into Rib Crib and get a Cribwich for lunch and be out the door for <$10 than I ever will go to Albert G's
And I won't waste the calories on a cribwich ;)
One thing that Albert G's will have downtown is the owner carefully watching over the food preparation, etc.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on May 04, 2011, 10:54:10 AM
One thing that Albert G's will have downtown is the owner carefully watching over the food preparation, etc.
With two locations? Is he multiple man?
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 10:21:56 AM
+1
On the Money!
BBQ is probably the hardest food to be consistent with. Too many factors go into delivering it fresh.
10 minutes separates great ribs/brisket/chicken from trash.
You can only keep meat on the steam table for so long before you have to toss it or risk serving leather. If you are attune to the quality of the product you serve, you need to be willing to throw a ton of stuff away and have the tolerance to loose a lot of money before you get things dialed in perfectly.
Even then, one bad day can tank your whole operation. People are as willing to talk about the bad BBQ as much as they are the good, and a poor review can live for ever.
What the hell do you know about BBQ?
ducking and donning body armor. lol
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 04, 2011, 10:55:12 AM
With two locations? Is he multiple man?
He probably will drop the harvard location or let somebody else run that one. All his money will be on downtown and should get the attention.
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 04, 2011, 10:41:45 AM
BBQ is much like Mexican, in that I'll eat every kind from everywhere. I just think I'll run into Rib Crib and get a Cribwich for lunch and be out the door for <$10 than I ever will go to Albert G's
Gaffigan on Mexican food (at 1:50 but the whole clip is good):
http://comedians.jokes.com/jim-gaffigan/videos/jim-gaffigan---bottled-water/
Quote from: CharlieSheen on May 04, 2011, 11:00:44 AM
He probably will drop the harvard location or let somebody else run that one. All his money will be on downtown and should get the attention.
Big assumption
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 10:37:52 AM
I tried Wilson's on 11th several times for lunch and each time the brisket was incredibly dry. Almost as if they were re-heating it. Go to the one on Apache and you don't seem to have that issue. Much of Wilson's growth and success over the years was J.B. Wilson. BBQ is an art and you have to have a passion for it to do it right. That's what's missing from a chain like Rib Crib is you don't get that passion in every bite.
Obviously everyone has their own preferences in BBQ much like Mexican. Grizzle completely panned Albert G's but loves Wranglers. I'm pretty meh on Wranglers. Doesn't make either of us wrong, it's just differing tastes.
We have noticed a few trends over the years and some are rather disgraceful. Many BBQ joints have given up on offering an authentic product and have turned to other means. For instance, some have begun to use an injection of MSG and a combination of sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite in their rub. Some of the large meat suppliers offer this product packaged and ready for the smoker.
The effects of the MSG are obvious. . .it makes things taste better.
The chemical rub is more disturbing. . .it causes a reaction on the outside of the meat giving it an artificial "smoke ring" It also causes the meat to retain moisture and tenderize. When they smoke, they use far less time and wood and cook at a higher temp. They then wrap the meat in cellophane and refrigerate. This allows them to keep and reheat the meat in a steam box each day. They may only cook two or three times a week!
What you get is something that tastes like BBQ. It's moist and flavorful but lacks the tenderness and texture of the real product. If you have a perceived sensitivity to chemicals like MSG or nitrates/nitrites you should inquire about who they get their meat from. If they respond with one of the large restaurant meat suppliers, chances are you are getting an engineered product.
This is completely unnecessary if you know what you're doing, but if you are going to hire a kid off the street to do your cooking, this is the financially sound choice. . .until people figure it out!
I agree about Back Alley. It could become the El Guapo of BBQ. Decent but not award winning food with a great atmosphere. If there is one thing Blake Ewing's group has done well it is create a great atmosphere in their places. Heres to hoping it does well.
Also, where will Rib Crib patrons park? This is a generalization, but won't the majority of Rib Crib's dinner/weekend patrons be folks not overly familiar with downtown? They are going to want front door parking. Lyon's has completely gone surbanite with protecting their ten spots next to their space. Mary Beth of Dwelling Spaces told me yesterday she is being forced to put up signs designating her reserved spots that come with her lease because of Lyon's and the city's stepped of enforcement of parking. That takes care of the lot to the south.
More importantly than the BBQ, where is the Met going to be located?
Quote from: CharlieSheen on May 04, 2011, 11:00:44 AM
He probably will drop the harvard location or let somebody else run that one. All his money will be on downtown and should get the attention.
As I recall from the Tulsa World article, there was nothing about him closing the Harvard location. I would assume he's got someone in the fold who will manage it who has been there awhile.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 11:05:54 AM
We have noticed a few trends over the years and some are rather disgraceful. Many BBQ joints have given up on offering an authentic product and have turned to other means. For instance, some have begun to use an injection of MSG and a combination of sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite in their rub. Some of the large meat suppliers offer this product packaged and ready for the smoker.
The effects of the MSG are obvious. . .it makes things taste better.
The chemical rub is more disturbing. . .it causes a reaction on the outside of the meat giving it an artificial "smoke ring" It also causes the meat to retain moisture and tenderize. When they smoke, they use far less time and wood and cook at a higher temp. They then wrap the meat in cellophane and refrigerate. This allows them to keep and reheat the meat in a steam box each day. They may only cook two or three times a week!
What you get is something that tastes like BBQ. It's moist and flavorful but lacks the tenderness and texture of the real product. If you have a perceived sensitivity to chemicals like MSG or nitrates/nitrites you should inquire about who they get their meat from. If they respond with one of the large restaurant meat suppliers, chances are you are getting an engineered product.
This is completely unnecessary if you know what you're doing, but if you are going to hire a kid off the street to do your cooking, this is the financially sound choice. . .until people figure it out!
Care to name names? Sodium nitrite and nitrate are a couple other additives I try and avoid along with MSG, "yeast extract" and the other terms they use for that flavor short cut.
I thought there was a new BBQ place coming to Downtown Tulsa from the KC area.
I cant remember the name but everyone here on the forum was just exstatic that it was going to open. help me out here boys.
Quote from: DolfanBob on May 04, 2011, 11:37:54 AM
I thought there was a new BBQ place coming to Downtown Tulsa from the KC area.
I cant remember the name but everyone here on the forum was just exstatic that it was going to open. help me out here boys.
Oklahoma Joe's to the Brady District as I recall
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 11:05:54 AM
The effects of the MSG are obvious . . .
Especially if you are allergic as I and much of the population is to various extents. For me MSG is a Migraine trigger and when I'm king for a day it will be forever banned!
On the question at hand, I like G's and Rib Crib too and I agree that the catering market will likely favor RC and where is Oklahoma Joe's? No Q is perfect, well except mine of course...
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 11:40:13 AM
Oklahoma Joe's to the Brady District as I recall
I've heard that it is delayed or cancelled.
Quote from: rdj on May 04, 2011, 11:07:08 AM
More importantly than the BBQ, where is the Met going to be located?
I moved over to the Brady area. I am now in the building across the street from the Brady Theater.
I went to a party last Saturday night that was catered by Rib Crib. BBQ for 300 and they did an excellent job. I had a pulled pork sandwich and some chicken that were both very good.
I think Back Alley BBQ will be fine. He can out market everybody with creative stuff and has done a good job getting side dishes just right. I love his pulled pork pizza and I have real faith that he is going to make some quality food. Back Alley is going to have more of an authentic Memphis style dry rub BBQ which I prefer. The others are more of a KC style of BBQ.
I eat Albert G's all the time. His prices are a little high, but I really like his brisket and sauces. His Harvard location is also very convenient for me.
I think all these guys are good restauranteurs. They can all make it if they focus on the food and service.
My question is, and I have seen this happen here, how long after three or four places open up and start smoking, will it be before some one complains about the smoke smell. A local place here expanded into a closed IHOP near some office buildings. After one week they were ordered by the city to cease cooking operations because of the smoke. They now have to cook the meat at their original location and then transport it to this location to serve it.
Back Alley is looking great, it will have the atmosphere. I really think it will have regular customers even if it has mediocre Q. I do hope the food is up to the level of everything else there. Regardless of the food, it will still be a great place just to come and have a drink and relax.
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 04, 2011, 12:59:01 PM
My question is, and I have seen this happen here, how long after three or four places open up and start smoking, will it be before some one complains about the smoke smell. A local place here expanded into a closed IHOP near some office buildings. After one week they were ordered by the city to cease cooking operations because of the smoke. They now have to cook the meat at their original location and then transport it to this location to serve it.
Depends on the smoker. There are some very high dollar smokers that put out almost no smoke, or run the exhaust through scrubbers. This is a good idea because BBQ smoke is very very toxic.
Yea! Really!
Three things are happening when you smoke. First you are burning wood at low tempatures producing smoke that is full of hundreds of carcinogens. Second you are sometimes grilling or finishing product creating heterocyclic amines a known carcinogen. Then finally you are melting away fat, and as that vaporizes it releases polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons another powerful carcinogen.
The smell of BBQ is wonderful, but it's probably worse for you than the occasional cigarette.
To the occasional BBQer this is probably not a problem, but if you work in or near a BBQ joint and are smelling it all day long, you are probably getting a healthy dose of something not to healthy.
Quote from: Floyd on May 04, 2011, 01:47:46 PM
There is an potential upside here. If the places all get support, Blue Dome will soon become known for having a concentration of BBQ. This will become big as downtown attracts more events and outsiders look for things to do.
That is a great point. Being "known" for something is a very strong marketing message.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 01:43:00 PM
Depends on the smoker. There are some very high dollar smokers that put out almost no smoke, or run the exhaust through scrubbers. This is a good idea because BBQ smoke is very very toxic.
Yea! Really!
Three things are happening when you smoke. First you are burning wood at low tempatures producing smoke that is full of hundreds of carcinogens. Second you are sometimes grilling or finishing product creating heterocyclic amines a known carcinogen. Then finally you are melting away fat, and as that vaporizes it releases polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons another powerful carcinogen.
The smell of BBQ is wonderful, but it's probably worse for you than the occasional cigarette.
To the occasional BBQer this is probably not a problem, but if you work in or near a BBQ joint and are smelling it all day long, you are probably getting a healthy dose of something not to healthy.
Consider wearing a painters mask with the activated charcoal cartridges.
It's only a matter of time until backyard BBQ and smokers are outlawed by OSHA and EPA.
Do the electric smokers carry the same amount of risks?
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 01:43:00 PM
Depends on the smoker. There are some very high dollar smokers that put out almost no smoke, or run the exhaust through scrubbers. This is a good idea because BBQ smoke is very very toxic.
Yea! Really!
Three things are happening when you smoke. First you are burning wood at low tempatures producing smoke that is full of hundreds of carcinogens. Second you are sometimes grilling or finishing product creating heterocyclic amines a known carcinogen. Then finally you are melting away fat, and as that vaporizes it releases polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons another powerful carcinogen.
The smell of BBQ is wonderful, but it's probably worse for you than the occasional cigarette.
To the occasional BBQer this is probably not a problem, but if you work in or near a BBQ joint and are smelling it all day long, you are probably getting a healthy dose of something not to healthy.
Shhhhh! It's my idea of health food. Don't ruin it for me.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 02:19:28 PM
Shhhhh! It's my idea of health food. Don't ruin it for me.
Too late. You will die young from complications of BBQ.
Coming soon. . .Warning labels on smokers and grills.
Quote from: rdj on May 04, 2011, 02:14:09 PM
Do the electric smokers carry the same amount of risks?
Smoke. . .check
Meat. . .check
Fat. . .check
Perhaps even more since they are capable of creating a more efficient level of smoke due to the fact that none of the smoke is burned with the fuel source.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 03:07:37 PM
Smoke. . .check
Meat. . .check
Fat. . .check
Perhaps even more since they are capable of creating a more efficient level of smoke due to the fact that none of the smoke is burned with the fuel source.
I've never used one so I wasn't sure exactly how they work. I assume they heat up wood chips until they create smoke for flavor and use a heating element to smoke the meat at even temperature? I've taken to using wood chips with my charcoal and gas grills. I guess I'm going experience to the Q in hell just a little faster than I thought.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 03:05:14 PM
Coming soon. . .Warning labels on smokers and grills.
Including: "For Professional Use Only"
I'm still thinking there's got to be a joke in the original topic title.
How many DOES it take?
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 03:41:45 PM
I'm still thinking there's got to be a joke in the original topic title.
How many DOES it take?
Enough to "smoke out" all the places that don't serve BBQ?
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 03:41:45 PM
I'm still thinking there's got to be a joke in the original topic title.
How many DOES it take?
1 to roll, 1 to.. wait.. what was the question?
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 04, 2011, 04:10:03 PM
1 to roll, 1 to.. wait.. what was the question?
Winner
All this talk of barbecue has made me decide to drive to my favorite local BBQ place for dinner tonight... Mac's Barbecue in Skiatook. You all can keep Albert G's--Mac's is where it's at!
Quote from: Gaspar on May 04, 2011, 01:43:00 PM
The smell of BBQ is wonderful, but it's probably worse for you than the occasional cigarette.
I'll take the cancer over not getting to smell the sweet smell of smoking BBQ.
In the 80s, the Safeway near my house in Fort Smith had a smoker in the parking lot. It was a good day when I happened along when they were cooking. ;)
To the original topic title; only 1 good one.
Rib Crib ain't it.
Will go check out Albert G's this week. Gotta find something fit to eat somewhere in this town! (Don't worry, Gaspar, will still be coming to find you this weekend, even if I find somewhere else, too.)
Gaspar,
Your description of how the Q is being done sounds like what Billy Sims is doing now. It has steadily gone downhill almost since it started.
Quote from: dsjeffries on May 04, 2011, 06:24:06 PM
All this talk of barbecue has made me decide to drive to my favorite local BBQ place for dinner tonight... Mac's Barbecue in Skiatook. You all can keep Albert G's--Mac's is where it's at!
I had to go get some myself this evening, only proble was I had a 45 minute wait since they give a free lunch and dinner every May 4th as a gift to the town. You get a sandwich, a side and a drink.
http://joesrealbbq.com/ (http://joesrealbbq.com/)
I don't really think there is any REALLY good cue join in Tulsa. Rib Crib and Albert G's are both consistently decent to slightly better than that. The OKD Elmer's was good, but not so much now. 20 years ago Billy Ray's was pretty good.
There used to be a place on 51 almost to Coweta (proper) back in the 90's called Linda's which was OUTSTANDING. I believe Linda died from cancer. Bad Brad's in Pawhuska is awesome and the one in Stillwater (Brad's daughter is the owner) is good too (there was a short-llived franchised BB operation in Owasso about 10 or so years ago that was good but it didn't last).
Looking forward to trying the new Back Alley and also Burnco. I really hope the reports of Oklahoma Joe's no longer coming are not true, but I fear they are. The O.J. original location in KC, Kansas is quite possibly the best cue I have ever eaten, at least at a restaurant.
Love me some Baker's that was mentioned earlier. In an earlier life when I worked for the City Manager in Dallas, one of the Asst. City Manager's used to get baker's catered in for us quite abit when we had to work late. I go to Baker's in Houston pretty regularly when I'm there on business now.
Oh I also agree on Albert G's sauce not being very good.
My Place BBQ from Muskogee has signed a LOI to put in a location at 91st & Yale. Figured I'd throw it out there while on subject of BBQ. KEO is also expected to open a location there as well.
Quote from: Billy G. on May 04, 2011, 08:57:28 PM
I don't really think there is any REALLY good cue join in Tulsa. Rib Crib and Albert G's are both consistently decent to slightly better than that. The OKD Elmer's was good, but not so much now. 20 years ago Billy Ray's was pretty good.
There used to be a place on 51 almost to Coweta (proper) back in the 90's called Linda's which was OUTSTANDING. I believe Linda died from cancer. Bad Brad's in Pawhuska is awesome and the one in Stillwater (Brad's daughter is the owner) is good too (there was a short-llived franchised BB operation in Owasso about 10 or so years ago that was good but it didn't last).
Looking forward to trying the new Back Alley and also Burnco. I really hope the reports of Oklahoma Joe's no longer coming are not true, but I fear they are. The O.J. original location in KC, Kansas is quite possibly the best cue I have ever eaten, at least at a restaurant.
Love me some Baker's that was mentioned earlier. In an earlier life when I worked for the City Manager in Dallas, one of the Asst. City Manager's used to get baker's catered in for us quite abit when we had to work late. I go to Baker's in Houston pretty regularly when I'm there on business now.
Oh I also agree on Albert G's sauce not being very good.
I left unhappy the last time I ate at Bad Brad's after several great meals prior to that visit. I've had great experiences at Head Country in Ponca and bad ones too.
Several which stand out for me still are: Van's in Shawnee, Dink's in Bartlesville, Ethel's which has been gone for some time but it's the cinder block building on the east side of Hwy 97 between 51st & 61st where they have the flea market. Public Eye in Memphis (Corky's is below average and one of the most splintered racks of ribs I ever ate came from the Rendezvous) Wilson's on Apache, a street vendor on St. John USVI who had the best grilled baby backs anywhere... and so it goes ;)
Love the Head Country sauce, but it's been over 15 years since I last ate there. Dink's was probably the most disappointing I ever had after the build up from B'ville residents.
My Place, huh? I've never been all that impressed. I actually ate lunch yesterday at Mahylon's in Muskogee. Decent cue.
I ate at Corky's in Germantown, TN a couple of years ago and thought it was decent, nothing special.
In you guys ever eaten at Wild Horse outside Sallisaw. Very Good, although my understanding is it has gone downhill some the last few years.
KEO near 91st and Yale would be nice.
I guess none of you guys have been to Buffalo BBQ up in Sperry.
Quote from: joiei on May 05, 2011, 07:48:35 AM
I guess none of you guys have been to Buffalo BBQ up in Sperry.
There was a bbq place that a friend of mine and I went to on our two-year-long, every other week series of "100 dollar hamburger" trips. Conan should be familiar with that term (and any other pilot, although now it's likely to be more like "200 dollar hamburger" with the fuel prices).
Sorry for the drift.
Long story short, we would, every other week, pick out a destination that we would fly in a Cessna 172 that we knew or had word of that either had a restaurant on the airport grounds, or nearby. In some cases, you could get a loaner vehicle from the FBO you parked at and have it for several hours. The first one of these we went to was during a 'poker run' day (another pilot term, and yes, it is a game) and we went to a little airport in Miami County Kansas (K81). It was a little BBQ place called "We-B-Smokin". Good cue, but interesting as the sauce tasted a little like spaghetti sauce to me. The next cue place we went to on our travels was in Ada, OK. We walked from the airport about 3/4 of a mile to a place called Bob's Famous BBQ. It might have been famous, but it really wasn't that memorable.
Sorry to drift a little, but it brought back memories of these little GA flights my friend and I would make. We went to several other places (not cue) and they were always fun. Our 2.5 hour flight to Amarillo just to go to the Big Texan to celebrate my friend getting his instrument ticket was a fun one for sure.
Speaking of. . .we start trimming and prepping people's choice meats tonight. We look forward to seeing you all on Saturday!!!!!!
http://www.bixbyrotarybbq.com/
Quote from: Hoss on May 05, 2011, 08:26:55 AM
Good cue, but interesting as the sauce tasted a little like spaghetti sauce to me.
That reminds me of my dad's spaghetti sauce that always tasted like chili. It tasted good but it just didn't seem right for spaghetti.
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 05, 2011, 09:01:52 AM
That reminds me of my dad's spaghetti sauce that always tasted like chili. It tasted good but it just didn't seem right for spaghetti.
Some people call that three-way...
CMIIW Slicks in Muskogee, and Wild Horse Mountain south of Sallisaw.
I think all three will survive. Each offers something different. Albert G's is the best BBQ in town in alot of peoples' opinions. Adding a full bar and the location alone will make it successful. Back Alley will offer the Memphis and blues scene and will thrive not only as a restaraunt but a bar as well. Rib Crib will thrive on downtown catering and family dining, especially during Drillers and BOK events when suburbanites who are scared of non-chain downtown restaurants are in town since Rib-Crib is at least familiar to them.
I believe once Rib Crib makes it in Blue Dome McDonalds will soon follow bringing back the much sought after McRib thus bringing a 5th BBQ joint to lovely downtown Tulsa.
I'm not convinced all 3 can make it opening up so close in time and proximity. To me, the least likely of the 3 to survive is Rib Crib. In yesterday's Tulsa World a Rib Crib exec said they would focus on the lunch and family dinner crowd, and would not have late hours or compete with the bars and other entertainment venues in the area. I just don't see a lot of folks loading up the kids into the SUV, driving past their suburban Rib Crib location to come to "scary" downtown, and struggle to find parking that is within 15 feet fo the front door. There aren't enough Drillers games to make up for the empty nights. As for lunch, Rib Crib's name recognition would help them succeed downtown if there weren't two other alternatives also going to be available - one that also has some name recognition and one that has generated a lot of buzz downtown. Finally, I don't think catering will save Rib Crib. Albert G's caters my downtown office's BBQ now, why would we switch to Rib Crib with a closer Albert G's available? Plus, I suspect Back Alley will also cater.
In the end, I hope all 3 survive because they each can provided something different to downtown and help create a "BBQ District". I'm just not convinced we can go from 0 to 3 in such a short time, but the competition will probably make them all better.
Quote from: DTowner on May 05, 2011, 12:22:05 PM
Finally, I don't think catering will save Rib Crib. Albert G's caters my downtown office's BBQ now, why would we switch to Rib Crib with a closer Albert G's available? Plus, I suspect Back Alley will also cater.
You would be surprised. RibCrib does huge catering business. The also have a huge take-out business (pharmaceutical reps mostly). I'm not sure if they make special deals with the reps or what, but several of my doc friends have told me that their reps really push RibCrib for lunches. I would assume they reward people like this for pushing their product. Perhaps gift cards or discounts??
They do a good job of making sure that when you order take-out, you get everything you ordered plus all of the napkins, utensils, plates, and sauce you will ever need. My doc said that last time one of the reps brought RibCrib they ended up with about a gallon worth of sauce in their fridge.
Mmmmmm! Smokey Corn Syrup. ;)
Rib Crib shows just how desperate people are for bar-b-que, and how much they are willing to compromise on it.
Gaspar,
You gonna have time to make enough just starting today??
What time should we be there?
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on May 05, 2011, 12:49:05 PM
Rib Crib shows just how desperate people are for bar-b-que, and how much they are willing to compromise on it.
Gaspar,
You gonna have time to make enough just starting today??
What time should we be there?
Ahh. . .but there are 5 of us 3 Guys Smokin'. . . We work as an assembly line. . .A fine tuned machine. . .fueled by Marshall's and Old Style.
We actually have a catered event Friday for a group of TU alums, so we'll be feeding about 100 that night as a private deal. The public day is Saturday, and the taster kits go on sale at 11am I think. We start serving at exactly 11:30.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 05, 2011, 01:19:36 PM
Ahh. . .but there are 5 of us 3 Guys Smokin'. . .
Seems to be an arithmetic problem. As long as the food is good, it doesn't matter if you can count.
:D
If you're letting the BBQ sit around in foil containers for a long while before eating it anyway, the initial quality isn't as important so long as it didn't start out awful. On the other hand, if you're eating in there is a big difference between mediocre and great!
Also, all BBQ sauce is an abomination. If my ribs are wet from anything but rendered fat, I'm not a happy camper. ;)
Quote from: nathanm on May 05, 2011, 02:35:25 PM
If you're letting the BBQ sit around in foil containers for a long while before eating it anyway, the initial quality isn't as important so long as it didn't start out awful. On the other hand, if you're eating in there is a big difference between mediocre and great!
Also, all BBQ sauce is an abomination. If my ribs are wet from anything but rendered fat, I'm not a happy camper. ;)
Good BBQ doesn't require sauce.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 05, 2011, 02:44:23 PM
Good BBQ doesn't require sauce.
For the most part, I agree, but . . .Most American BBQ includes a sauce component. A majority of the public wants a good sauce to complement good BBQ. The problem is that bad sauce dominates the market because it is incredibly cheap to make. In many cases this product is up to 70% Corn Syrup.
I think the primary reason some purists are adverse to the use of sauce is that it attempts to cover or commandeer the flavor of the meat. If you put Head Country or KC Masterpiece on anything it's going to taste like Head Country or KCM. That's because the Corn Syrup is a delivery mechanism for all of the other flavors in the sauce, effectively coating your tongue and preventing you from tasting anything else. This is a plus when eating poorly flavored meat, but has no place in real BBQ.
A good sauce is powerfully flavorful but uses a lighter component like vinegar or fresh fruit to deliver the flavor. This gives you more of a layering affect. You can taste everything; the meat, the rub, and the sauce. Even mustard based sauces produce a clear layered flavorprint. If you compare a gourmet competition sauce with an off the shelf commercial sauce on the exact same piece of meat it is night and day. The problem is that most people don't get to make this comparison, and most BBQers don't take the time to select a sauce that actually complements their product.
There was much discussion about Albert G's earlier and I stayed silent. I love Albert G's meat, but he goes and destroys it with that Gawd awful sauce. I'd love to see him get away from that.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 05, 2011, 03:18:48 PM
For the most part, I agree, but . . .Most American BBQ includes a sauce component. A majority of the public wants a good sauce to complement good BBQ. The problem is that bad sauce dominates the market because it is incredibly cheap to make. In many cases this product is up to 70% Corn Syrup.
I think the primary reason some purists are adverse to the use of sauce is that it attempts to cover or commandeer the flavor of the meat. If you put Head Country or KC Masterpiece on anything it's going to taste like Head Country or KCM. That's because the Corn Syrup is a delivery mechanism for all of the other flavors in the sauce, effectively coating your tongue and preventing you from tasting anything else. This is a plus when eating poorly flavored meat, but has no place in real BBQ.
A good sauce is powerfully flavorful but uses a lighter component like vinegar or fresh fruit to deliver the flavor. This gives you more of a layering affect. You can taste everything; the meat, the rub, and the sauce. Even mustard based sauces produce a clear layered flavorprint. If you compare a gourmet competition sauce with an off the shelf commercial sauce on the exact same piece of meat it is night and day. The problem is that most people don't get to make this comparison, and most BBQers don't take the time to select a sauce that actually complements their product.
There was much discussion about Albert G's earlier and I stayed silent. I love Albert G's meat, but he goes and destroys it with that Gawd awful sauce. I'd love to see him get away from that.
I know someone who makes a really good line of sauces he could serve there ;)
BTW, I love the 3GS Smokin' Razz, but have to say I'm partial to my own pomegranate/blackberry sauce using a tomato base- not ketchup. Naturally I think everything I make is the best ;D
Quote from: Gaspar on May 05, 2011, 03:18:48 PM
For the most part, I agree, but . . .Most American BBQ includes a sauce component. A majority of the public wants a good sauce to complement good BBQ. The problem is that bad sauce dominates the market because it is incredibly cheap to make. In many cases this product is up to 70% Corn Syrup.
I think the primary reason some purists are adverse to the use of sauce is that it attempts to cover or commandeer the flavor of the meat. If you put Head Country or KC Masterpiece on anything it's going to taste like Head Country or KCM. That's because the Corn Syrup is a delivery mechanism for all of the other flavors in the sauce, effectively coating your tongue and preventing you from tasting anything else. This is a plus when eating poorly flavored meat, but has no place in real BBQ.
A good sauce is powerfully flavorful but uses a lighter component like vinegar or fresh fruit to deliver the flavor. This gives you more of a layering affect. You can taste everything; the meat, the rub, and the sauce. Even mustard based sauces produce a clear layered flavorprint. If you compare a gourmet competition sauce with an off the shelf commercial sauce on the exact same piece of meat it is night and day. The problem is that most people don't get to make this comparison, and most BBQers don't take the time to select a sauce that actually complements their product.
There was much discussion about Albert G's earlier and I stayed silent. I love Albert G's meat, but he goes and destroys it with that Gawd awful sauce. I'd love to see him get away from that.
That is why I never put sauce on anything I get from Albert G's unless I make the sauce myself. His ribs with no sauce is pretty darned good.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 05, 2011, 12:35:08 PM
You would be surprised. RibCrib does huge catering business. The also have a huge take-out business (pharmaceutical reps mostly). I'm not sure if they make special deals with the reps or what, but several of my doc friends have told me that their reps really push RibCrib for lunches. I would assume they reward people like this for pushing their product. Perhaps gift cards or discounts??
They do a good job of making sure that when you order take-out, you get everything you ordered plus all of the napkins, utensils, plates, and sauce you will ever need. My doc said that last time one of the reps brought RibCrib they ended up with about a gallon worth of sauce in their fridge.
Mmmmmm! Smokey Corn Syrup. ;)
Indeed.
I know RC does a lot of catering, but it is already handling that demand with existing stores - including downtown. I don't see a downtown location creating a lot of new catering business for Rib Crib, whereas Back Alley Blues and Albert G's are likely to move into that market and take some of Rib Crib's existing downtown catering business. Again, I think the competition will make all 3 work harder and produce a better product than they otherwise might. But it's going to take a lot of 'cue eaters to keep all 3 in business. I'll do my part.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 05, 2011, 03:47:37 PM
I know someone who makes a really good line of sauces he could serve there ;)
BTW, I love the 3GS Smokin' Razz, but have to say I'm partial to my own pomegranate/blackberry sauce using a tomato base- not ketchup. Naturally I think everything I make is the best ;D
Razz Bold & Spicy is our top award winning sauce. With 4 top ribbons in the KC Royal "Best Sauce on the Planet" contest, including first place last year, and two ribbons in the Great American.
. . .Plus it has helped us to win over 300 awards when slathered on our meat!
It's amazing stuff!
I actually like Blues better, because I like that vinegar bite. Just wait until Black Gold comes out. ;)
Quote from: Gaspar on May 05, 2011, 04:03:16 PM
Just wait until Black Gold comes out. ;)
You big tease
I'm wanting to make my own sauce, just to see how well I can do. Problem is I have no idea where to start. I like sweet sauce like head country, so I'm figuring I need to go with a tomato base. Might have to experiment this weekend. If it turns out bad though, I'm so not going to ruin some good ribs with it. Might have to try some of that 3 guys stuff I keep hearing about.
He's got a mean streak...teasing us like that...
Quote from: custosnox on May 05, 2011, 04:45:04 PM
I'm wanting to make my own sauce, just to see how well I can do. Problem is I have no idea where to start. I like sweet sauce like head country, so I'm figuring I need to go with a tomato base. Might have to experiment this weekend. If it turns out bad though, I'm so not going to ruin some good ribs with it. Might have to try some of that 3 guys stuff I keep hearing about.
I'll give you a hint where to start:
16 oz of tomato sauce, puree, or paste. I've even started with fresh tomatoes and rendered them down.
Celery seed
Red wine or apple cider vinegar
3 TBSP of brown sugar
Onion & Garlic. Either you can press all the liquid out of both or simply start out sauteeing them until good and soft, then pour them over into a blender with however thick you want to start your tomato reduction. Pure fruit juice or pulp to flavor. Berries work best.
Don't heat any higher than 300F and don't let it stick. Tomatoes get bitter when they get too hot.
I'm a total fanatic for all fresh, but those are the main ingredients and approximate starting points. Have fun with it. That's what cooking is all about in the first place.
As far as good BBQ goes. I like Stone Mill BBQ out here in B.A. The meat is tender and falls off the bone with no effort at all. They dont smother it in BBQ sauce. You do it yourself with whatever type sauce you like.
Now my boss likes Famous Daves by Woodland Hills. He gets something called Trash can lid. It's a bunch of different meats all smothered in their "Famous" sauce.
I'm not to impressed with their BBQ.
That's funny, Stone Mill did not impress me at all.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 06, 2011, 10:48:55 AM
That's funny, Stone Mill did not impress me at all.
Hmm. Mine must have been on their good day.
Also, Ive only eaten there for lunch.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 06, 2011, 10:48:55 AM
That's funny, Stone Mill did not impress me at all.
Same here. Been twice. Had their big combo platter. Wasn't a huge fan of the sauce and the meat seemed a little dry. Except for the chicken. That's was not too bad.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 05, 2011, 11:51:11 PM
I'll give you a hint where to start:
16 oz of tomato sauce, puree, or paste. I've even started with fresh tomatoes and rendered them down.
Celery seed
Red wine or apple cider vinegar
3 TBSP of brown sugar
Onion & Garlic. Either you can press all the liquid out of both or simply start out sauteeing them until good and soft, then pour them over into a blender with however thick you want to start your tomato reduction. Pure fruit juice or pulp to flavor. Berries work best.
Don't heat any higher than 300F and don't let it stick. Tomatoes get bitter when they get too hot.
I'm a total fanatic for all fresh, but those are the main ingredients and approximate starting points. Have fun with it. That's what cooking is all about in the first place.
Thanks, hopefully I'll be able to find some time today to do this. If not, I'll keep it in mind for when I do have the time
How is there all this BBQ talk with nary a mention of Wilson's or Stutt's? If you want good BBQ, you have to go north. On Apache are 2 of the finest BBQ joints in Tulsa, and on N. Harvard, Oklahoma Style is real good, too. Albert G's is alright. Rib Crib is at least consistent, and not terrible. Never been to Famous Dave's or Stone Mill because they seem to me to be big corporate stores, and I don't expect much from them.
And, yes, real BBQ does not need sauce; however, I love BBQ sauce and I drench my stuff in it. It takes too much effort to be a purist.
Furthermore, the best ribs I've ever had were at BB King's joint in Memphis...to die for.
Stone Mill was started by some local guys and at the time, they said they were the only one. Started out very good, but as we went over the years, it seemed to declined. Haven't been in couple of years. Not sure the same people own now or not.
Wilson's has always been good. Haven't been up there in ages. Must go again!
Next time in Memphis area, go out to Germantown and find Commissary. I bet you like it better than BB Kings.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on May 08, 2011, 08:37:56 PM
Stone Mill was started by some local guys and at the time, they said they were the only one. Started out very good, but as we went over the years, it seemed to declined. Haven't been in couple of years. Not sure the same people own now or not.
Wilson's has always been good. Haven't been up there in ages. Must go again!
Next time in Memphis area, go out to Germantown and find Commissary. I bet you like it better than BB Kings.
Original Wilson's on Apache was still good. Avoid the one on 11th. Oh, and Stutts is a a decent choice. My ribs were a bit dry last time, but everything else was good and the buttermilk pie is really a treat.
I had Albert G's ribs on Saturday and they held up very, very well. Great flavor, good smoke, tender and moist but still firm on your teeth. Good stuff.
Anybody been brave enough to try this place at 31st and Sheridan?
(http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/custosnox/2011-05-09152301.jpg)
I have been talking about him for more than a year!! I have eaten there a lot - not in last year and a half. It used to be very good!!
Will have to go here AND Wilson's this week! Long live BBQ!!!!
Babb Brothers BBQ, I believe. I don't think I've managed to hit them when they are open. There's a taco truck on the 31st St. side of the Shell station which sells amazing tortas.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 05, 2011, 11:51:11 PM
I'll give you a hint where to start:
16 oz of tomato sauce, puree, or paste. I've even started with fresh tomatoes and rendered them down.
Celery seed
Red wine or apple cider vinegar
3 TBSP of brown sugar
Onion & Garlic. Either you can press all the liquid out of both or simply start out sauteeing them until good and soft, then pour them over into a blender with however thick you want to start your tomato reduction. Pure fruit juice or pulp to flavor. Berries work best.
Don't heat any higher than 300F and don't let it stick. Tomatoes get bitter when they get too hot.
I'm a total fanatic for all fresh, but those are the main ingredients and approximate starting points. Have fun with it. That's what cooking is all about in the first place.
Blueberries make a great sauce for BBQ. Use the receipe above but replace the tomato with fresh or frozen berries. Add cheyenne pepper and molasses
Quote from: carltonplace on May 10, 2011, 08:48:44 AM
Blueberries make a great sauce for BBQ. Use the receipe above but replace the tomato with fresh or frozen berries. Add cheyenne pepper and molasses
Try this...I've had it. It doesn't suck. (and I don't like sauce)
Quote from: Townsend on May 10, 2011, 08:55:38 AM
Try this...I've had it. It doesn't suck. (and I don't like sauce)
Anything Carlton makes has got to be good. I'll definitely be giving this a try.
Is there a particular type of molasses that's better?
Quote from: Conan71 on May 10, 2011, 09:23:39 AM
Anything Carlton makes has got to be good. I'll definitely be giving this a try.
Is there a particular type of molasses that's better?
dark
Quote from: carltonplace on May 10, 2011, 10:04:09 AM
dark
The ex and I made a really good sweet and spicy sauce. Tomato paste, dark molasses, brown sugar, fresh minced onion/garlic/cilantro, applcidar vinegar, and Joe's Stuff Cajun Seasoning.
http://shopping.nosoc.com/browseproducts/21-oz-Joe's-Stuff.HTML (http://shopping.nosoc.com/browseproducts/21-oz-Joe's-Stuff.HTML)
Thanks for all of the ideas. I put off doing this, but I just might go ahead and work on this tomorrow evening.
Finally made my first BBQ sauce. Will find out if it is a success when I get to smoke some ribs to put it on. It's deffinatly not head country, but made me really want to try it on some meat after I tasted it. Only thing is, it seems super thick, not sure how to thin it out.
Thick is good, but if you really want to thin it out just add water or you can add a little cider vinegar if you think it needs to be made more tart.
Bre'r Rabbit molasses is good. So is Grandma's. Not sure you can find a bad molasses...I haven't found one yet.
Just a small touch of Worcestershire adds to the flavor development. Also, occasionally I put in a Tbs or two of frozen orange juice concentrate. Not for acid, cause you already should have enough vinegar for that. Seems to give a sweet/savory touch that I like - could be that plus the Worcestershire??
And second the motion; add water for thinning.
Quote from: custosnox on May 19, 2011, 12:16:51 AM
It's deffinatly not head country,
Congratulations!
Head Country appeals to a lot of tastes and is good for propping up bad 'que, but you can definitely make better.
Wasn't sure how it would react to water. While thick is good, this stuff won't even pour now that I've chilled it. Thanks for the advice everyone, now I can figure out what as I like in a sauce.
/thread hijack
Head Country starts with ketchup as base, so you are at least 3 or 4 steps ahead right there.
And if you gotta have some sweet (leaving out corn syrup, like ketchup) then try grape juice or maybe apple juice. Sugar is just so blase'. But you gotta have sweet to enhance/complement the acid (vinegar).
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on May 19, 2011, 12:24:21 PM
Head Country starts with ketchup as base, so you are at least 3 or 4 steps ahead right there.
And if you gotta have some sweet (leaving out corn syrup, like ketchup) then try grape juice or maybe apple juice. Sugar is just so blase'. But you gotta have sweet to enhance/complement the acid (vinegar).
used some brown sugar and blueberries
Molasses is a great sweetner for sauce, but steer clear of black strap molassess - I think it imparts a bitterness and off putting flavor.
Quote from: custosnox on May 19, 2011, 09:23:33 AM
Wasn't sure how it would react to water. While thick is good, this stuff won't even pour now that I've chilled it. Thanks for the advice everyone, now I can figure out what as I like in a sauce.
/thread hijack
Depending on the flavor profile of your sauce, whiskey or beer can be used to thin it down (although you might want to cook off some of the alcohol).
Quote from: DTowner on May 19, 2011, 03:56:53 PM
(although you might want to cook off some of the alcohol).
Nonsense
The alcohol will impart a nasty bitterness.
Quote from: DTowner on May 19, 2011, 03:56:53 PM
Depending on the flavor profile of your sauce, whiskey or beer can be used to thin it down (although you might want to cook off some of the alcohol).
That went in early on
Quote from: joiei on May 19, 2011, 09:36:58 PM
The alcohol will impart a nasty bitterness.
It never does that to me, I'm always bitter before I add alcohol. Afterwards I am smooth and mellow.
We use Tequila and beer, but none of it ever actually makes it into the sauce.
There is even a Jack Daniels sauce out there. Can't have much whiskey in it, though. Whiskey does add a nice touch, but go lightly - save most of it for ice in a glass.
Went to Albert G's Saturday. Wow! This is the place in Tulsa we have been looking for. Ribs are very good (still not quite Black Jaxx, but since his store closed, what can be done...)....well, everything was very good. Tabouli is much better than average according to SWMBO. Good to find! Will be doing this much more!!
Finished the leftovers this evening, and they held up exceptionally well. Still as enjoyable as Saturday! Yay!!
I was working all weekend so I got a couple of pounds of pulled pork from Elmer's on Friday. I use good storage containers and the kids can make sandwiches for three or four days without making a mess.
I like Elmer's BBQ pulled pork the best. Blake at Joe Momma's does a good job with pulled pork too. My kids love his bbq pizza.
So... When's Back Alley opening?
Quote from: BKDotCom on May 22, 2011, 08:40:58 PM
So... When's Back Alley opening?
weeks? It's down to the finishing touches, and getting approval on a few things. Kitchen equipment was delivered last week.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 22, 2011, 05:54:06 PM
I was working all weekend so I got a couple of pounds of pulled pork from Elmer's on Friday. I use good storage containers and the kids can make sandwiches for three or four days without making a mess.
I like Elmer's BBQ pulled pork the best. Blake at Joe Momma's does a good job with pulled pork too. My kids love his bbq pizza.
I had a Pulled Pork Parfait this weekend that was pretty good.
The Back Alley day is nearly here.. early next month.
Noticed Back Alley's website is live:
http://www.backalleytulsa.com/
Saw on facebook they are now open. Anybody been? Whats the setup? Do they have a pitboss doing the cooking on site or is it brought in from another location? Is it dry rub?
Quote from: BKDotCom on June 08, 2011, 10:39:24 AM
Noticed Back Alley's website is live:
http://www.backalleytulsa.com/
It needs a little work, especially on the music and events pages about the groups coming to play. I can't quite make out the language.
Just teething problems I know, but you would hope for something better when they made it live.
Quote from: DowntownDan on June 10, 2011, 03:37:46 PM
Saw on facebook they are now open. Anybody been? Whats the setup? Do they have a pitboss doing the cooking on site or is it brought in from another location? Is it dry rub?
It's done on site, I understand that it's got a dry rub. I got some ribs the other day and I'll say that the sauce is pretty tastey. It's not that super sweet stuff like at most places. Haven't had the chance to try any of what is being officially being served yet.
Quote from: DowntownDan on June 10, 2011, 03:37:46 PM
Saw on facebook they are now open. Anybody been? Whats the setup? Do they have a pitboss doing the cooking on site or is it brought in from another location? Is it dry rub?
They have a pitboss and a smoker that holds 5,000 pounds of meat. The pitboss is also the winner of the bean competition.
It is dry rub, there is no sauce on the table. I went on a preview day as well as today for lunch. The Back Alley Beatdown is a marvel (brisket, bologna, hot link, pulled pork, coleslaw all on a bun). The Chicken Club sandwich includes candied bacon and fried green tomatoes amongst other toppings. The beans are drip beans, meaning they are smoked with drippings and meat in them. I'll gladly eat their $8 sandwich over Dilly Deli's.
The wife & I enjoyed dinner last night. Had ribs, corn on the cob, fried green tomatoes & mac n cheese. Everything was good. Mac n cheese was only item I wouldn't order again. It's homestyle mac n cheese and I bet they'll tweak it.
Service was great. As good or better than any table service I've received in the Blue Dome.
Atmosphere was solid. It will be interesting once they are dine with patio and add live music.
Quote from: rdj on June 11, 2011, 07:51:53 PM
Atmosphere was solid. It will be interesting once they are dine with patio and add live music.
Be even more so once the rooftop area is put in.
Quote from: rdj on June 11, 2011, 07:51:53 PM
The wife & I enjoyed dinner last night. Had ribs, corn on the cob, fried green tomatoes & mac n cheese. Everything was good. Mac n cheese was only item I wouldn't order again. It's homestyle mac n cheese and I bet they'll tweak it.
Service was great. As good or better than any table service I've received in the Blue Dome.
Atmosphere was solid. It will be interesting once they are dine with patio and add live music.
New Mac and Cheese on its way from what I hear.
The interior of Back Alley is good. I remembered to go in the correct way. The outdoor seating area will be a plus.
No updated mac and cheese yet.
We'll look for it next time we go. My wife orders mac and cheese anytime it's available.
We went to Back Alley today for lunch. Things were good, but they didn't have Texas Toast. How do you have a BBQ place without Texas Toast?
I really liked the okra and the onion rings. Our party tried all the sides and others raved about the fried green tomatoes and the baked beans.
I won't go back until tonight (because I am full).
Meh....cheap decor...the sauce has too much vinegar....the meats just ok.
and no scotch for a gf .....you see, it's all american in a global society. GMAFB.
An equilibrium will be reached between income, people, and will power which will spell disaster for some of the players downtown.
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 19, 2011, 12:45:56 AM
Meh....cheap decor...the sauce has too much vinegar....the meats just ok.
and no scotch for a gf .....you see, it's all american in a global society. GMAFB.
An equilibrium will be reached between income, people, and will power which will spell disaster for some of the players downtown.
You have got to be one of the most difficult people to please on the planet. Enjoy your gloom and doom while the rest of us live our lives. Good night!
Quote from: ZYX on June 19, 2011, 12:49:20 AM
You have got to be one of the most difficult people to please on the planet. Enjoy your gloom and doom while the rest of us live our lives. Good night!
You hate honesty? You don't like people's opinions unless they line up with yours? GMAFB. 3 BBQ places and you expect everyone to like them all?
I actually had a butt load of complaints about the place but tried to be short....
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 19, 2011, 12:51:31 AM
You hate honesty? You don't like people's opinions unless they line up with yours? GMAFB. 3 BBQ places and you expect everyone to like them all?
I actually had a butt load of complaints about the place but tried to be short....
Didn't see where he said he hated your opinion...he was merely making an observation.
One I agree with.
Quote from: Teatownclown on June 19, 2011, 12:51:31 AM
You hate honesty? You don't like people's opinions unless they line up with yours? GMAFB. 3 BBQ places and you expect everyone to like them all?
I actually had a butt load of complaints about the place but tried to be short....
It was more of a statement collectively covering your posts on here instead of just that one (although it contributed). It seems like everything is too loud, low class, unsophisticated, or too cheap for you to enjoy. The owners of these restaurants are catering to a more casual demographic because that is who is downtown and will bring in the most money. I don't hate your opinion I'm just sick of them all being negative.
Quote from: ZYX on June 19, 2011, 09:25:23 AM
I don't hate your opinion I'm just sick of them all being negative.
You must not be reading the sarcastic ones.... :D
I stopped in for lunch yesterday and still have leftovers in the fridge; I liked the sauce, it is Memphis style not the same old same old that is served by all the bbqs in town.I can see stopping in for a Schlitz amd some fried dill pickles in the afternoon.
QuotePosted by: RecycleMichael
We went to Back Alley today for lunch. Things were good, but they didn't have Texas Toast. How do you have a BBQ place without Texas Toast?
I really liked the okra and the onion rings. Our party tried all the sides and others raved about the fried green tomatoes and the baked beans.
I won't go back until tonight (because I am full).
What is "Texas Toast?" It sounds disgusting.
It does sound bad.
It is just packaged white bread sliced at double the thickness then buttered and grilled on both sides.
Thick, white and lightly cooked (sounds just like me).
The waitress brought me corn muffins instead. They were good.
Quote from: joiei on June 19, 2011, 05:35:56 PM
I stopped in for lunch yesterday and still have leftovers in the fridge; I liked the sauce, it is Memphis style not the same old same old that is served by all the bbqs in town.I can see stopping in for a Schlitz amd some fried dill pickles in the afternoon.
I saved some of the sauce from my visit last week for FMC to try. Between us we figured out the mystery spice was rosemary. It was such a familiar taste, but I simply could not figure it out.
And FYI, there is a thread started on Back Alley under restaurant reviews for people to detail their experiences at BABBQ. I thought this thread was on the topic of BBQ downtown more specifically.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 20, 2011, 09:08:49 AM
I saved some of the sauce from my visit last week for FMC to try. Between us we figured out the mystery spice was rosemary. It was such a familiar taste, but I simply could not figure it out.
That has some serious deliciousness potential. Rosemary + meat = win
Quote from: nathanm on June 20, 2011, 04:03:51 PM
That has some serious deliciousness potential. Rosemary + meat = win
Unusual for a BBQ sauce, but a nice surprise.
Quote from: JoeMommaBlake on June 20, 2011, 12:58:12 AM
What is "Texas Toast?" It sounds disgusting.
Flavorless carbs.
Looks like a zoning change request has been initiated at the old Met facility (from IL to CBD), where Rib Crib is supposed to open. Seems like a sign of progress on this project.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3162/5865054702_15d5175d02_b.jpg)
Quote from: Kenosha on June 23, 2011, 06:31:11 PM
Looks like a zoning change request has been initiated at the old Met facility (from IL to CBD), where Rib Crib is supposed to open. Seems like a sign of progress on this project.
Let's hope it's not to surface parking.
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 23, 2011, 07:23:09 PM
Let's hope it's not to surface parking.
Just wish it could have been something other than Rib Crib, which IMO is essentially the Applebee's of BBQ.
Geez, Hoss! All your taste in your mouth?? As bad as Applebee's is, Rib Crib still doesn't come close to that good....(LOL!)
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on June 23, 2011, 07:49:42 PM
Geez, Hoss! All your taste in your mouth?? As bad as Applebee's is, Rib Crib still doesn't come close to that good....(LOL!)
Wasn't necessarily referring to the taste so much as the business model...but I don't care for most of their offerings, either. I like my BBQ joints to sell BBQ. I don't want to see some sort of BBQ burrito, or a BBQ Philly on the menu.
That's just how I roll....
I like the brisket from the Rib Crib. We get it for catered events all the time. I also like Elmer's, had a good meal at Blue's Alley last week, and love to go to Stutt's for lunch.
The Rib Crib is also a great supporter of community events. They give discounts or donate food to many causes over the years.
My old warehouse will make a decent small restaurant, in my opinion. If another restaurant appears on Detroit to accent what is happening on Elgin, suddenly we have a district.
I would love to see more shopping over there. Now that would help it feel like more of a district. Drove by the other day and was looking at some of those small store fronts and noticed that they said "cvered parking". Can those small spaces really make more as covered parking in that area than they could lease the space for retail? I wonder what they do make per month and if one could make them an offer for more to open a shop?
btw. I am tired of doing murals all over gawds earth, never knowing where I am going to be one week to the next, setting up and tearing down scaffolding and climbing all over ladders, stairs, straining to paint ceilings, etc. It was fun for 20 or so years but am ready to do something else now. Never thought I would say it, but the idea of going to one place every day thats mine and where I could be creative, is starting to seem quite appealing.
Quote from: TheArtist on June 24, 2011, 07:16:42 AM
Can those small spaces really make more as covered parking in that area than they could lease the space for retail?
Presently they probably do when the money to fix a place up for retail and the perceived parking problem along with lack of a really usable transit sytem is considered. Hopefully that will change.
Artist, do you mean the buildings on the west side of Detroit Ave south of Enso? If so, I wouldn't park my car in them because they are about to fall down. An American Parking employee told me the cost to rehab and bring to code is too high for a reasonable return. It's too bad because they're cool looking buildings.
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 24, 2011, 07:45:41 AM
Presently they probably do when the money to fix a place up for retail and the perceived parking problem along with lack of a really usable transit sytem is considered. Hopefully that will change.
They look perfectly fine inside for me. Cement floors, exposed ceilings and walls... beautiful. Fix up? Fix up what lol? I have got about $30,000 worth of antiques I am tired of looking at and could mix in some contemporary furniture/decore/gifty items along with that, could do some artwork while I am there, have some friends who also want to do the same thing and could partition the space, and I am off tomorrow and could do it then lol.
Perceived parking problem....I don't see it and I don't give a F about the kind of freakish idiot that would. And we are not going to have good transit worrying about parking more than worrying about having concentrations of pedestrian friendly shopping/living/business/entertainment.
Quote from: rdj on June 24, 2011, 07:59:34 AM
Artist, do you mean the buildings on the west side of Detroit Ave south of Enso? If so, I wouldn't park my car in them because they are about to fall down. An American Parking employee told me the cost to rehab and bring to code is too high for a reasonable return. It's too bad because they're cool looking buildings.
Ugh, what a shame.
Quote from: rdj on June 24, 2011, 07:59:34 AM
Artist, do you mean the buildings on the west side of Detroit Ave south of Enso? If so, I wouldn't park my car in them because they are about to fall down. An American Parking employee told me the cost to rehab and bring to code is too high for a reasonable return. It's too bad because they're cool looking buildings.
Not true.
That American Parking employee is just bad-mouthing their competition. The buildings are fine.
I know the owner well and he has had quite a bit of interest from developers. I think they will become a new retail or restaurant soon after the Rib Crib opens.
Quote from: TheArtist on June 24, 2011, 08:08:00 AM
They look perfectly fine inside for me. Cement floors, exposed ceilings and walls... beautiful. Fix up? Fix up what lol? I have got about $30,000 worth of antiques I am tired of looking at and could mix in some contemporary furniture/decore/gifty items along with that, could do some artwork while I am there, have some friends who also want to do the same thing and could partition the space, and I am off tomorrow and could do it then lol.
Perceived parking problem....I don't see it and I don't give a F about the kind of freakish idiot that would. And we are not going to have good transit worrying about parking more than worrying about having concentrations of pedestrian friendly shopping/living/business/entertainment.
The population of Tulsa believes that if you can't park 3 steps from the door, it's not worth the trip. To park in a lot and walk a block to visit a retail offering is almost unthinkable! My God! What will you do if you buy something? Carry it?
Sounds ridiculous, but we have a long way to go until we overcome it. As long as there are thousands of offerings in other parts of town where fat, round Tulsans can park at the door, waddle in and shop in wide isles, a surface lot, garage, bus, or train that requires exertion is out of the question.
I just don't want to pay to park. On a friday night with a baseball game, pac event, back alley grand opening... I couldn't find a damn place to park less than 10 blocks away. It was still damn hot outside.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on June 24, 2011, 08:21:14 AM
Not true.
That American Parking employee is just bad-mouthing their competition. The buildings are fine.
I know the owner well and he has had quite a bit of interest from developers. I think they will become a new retail or restaurant soon after the Rib Crib opens.
Considering at least one of those buildings is operated by American Parking, what competition are you referring to?
Quote from: Floyd on June 24, 2011, 10:39:30 AM
Tell that to a small business owner who's got to account for all possible business factors to his loan officer. "So, where are your customers going to park?" Like it or not, it's not a "perceived" problem, it's real and has to be accounted for somehow... with creative options that make best use of space, but still has to be accounted for.
Which is why some sort of above or below ground stacked parking east of the PAC would be great for the BD and the CBD
Quote from: CharlieSheen on June 24, 2011, 09:02:53 AM
I just don't want to pay to park. On a friday night with a baseball game, pac event, back alley grand opening... I couldn't find a damn place to park less than 10 blocks away. It was still damn hot outside.
Then park 11 blocks away. Walking is not difficult. I enjoy walking through downtown. You get to see everything. It's no fun when you just drive through it all. In other cities, ten blocks is not a long walk. We need to learn in Tulsa that when you go downtown, you WALK. We will never have a truly dense downtown unless we force people to walk.
Quote from: ZYX on June 24, 2011, 10:46:28 AM
. . . unless we force people to walk.
Learn the lesson, a free market society abhors force.
You can change perception through marketing, that's about all. Until there is more value or convenience, the consumer will seek the path of least resistance to acquire products and services. You have to work on selling the experience and turning the "walk" perceived as a negative into a positive.
You cannot force anyone to do anything.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 24, 2011, 10:59:21 AM
Learn the lesson, a free market society abhors force.
You can change perception through marketing, that's about all. Until there is more value or convenience, the consumer will seek the path of least resistance to acquire products and services. You have to work on selling the experience and turning the "walk" perceived as a negative into a positive.
You cannot force anyone to do anything.
By force people to walk, I meant not cater to their every wish to easily park their car. Build parking garages, but don't build one on every block. Build a few, and then no more. People can walk. I HATE when people say there is nothing to do downtown, and then grab their pitchforks everytime a development that takes away parking is proposed.
Parking is a reality of business that requires consideration when developing downtown. I don't think the walking is as big of an issue as having to pay to park. Other than for a ball game or special event, you can't ask people to pay $5 to park to just walk around and window shop or have a meal. I think the fat lazy suburbanites that refuse to go downtown and require Wal-Mart parking are not really a factor to consider because they will not go downtown anyway. It's just not in their lifestyle. But there are still lots of people in South Tulsa and the suburbs who want to see a vibrant downtown, but they will need to drive to get there. Public transportation just isn't going to thrive in Tulsa and I see it as a waste to even pretend that Tulsans will give up their cars. At least not until gas reaches $5 plus per gallon permanently, and even then the trend will be towards smaller electric or hybrid cars, not public transportation. I'll admit, I like having control over my movement and even when in downtown environments, I like having my car with me so I can come and go as I please without having to worry about a bus schedule. I would purchase an electric car before using the bus. Not that I'm too good for public transit, I just find it inconvenient, especially in Tulsa where bus routes are not predicatble and do not run in short intervals. Tulsa is not NYC or San Francisco, and never will be in that respect. I can accept that. I don't think asking people to walk a few blocks is going to be a problem downtown. Volume is the factor that needs to be taken into consideration as downtown attracts more people and surface lots go away. I don't think Blue Dome really has a problem since that huge lot can handle lots of people, and there are several surface lots still within walking distance.
Those of us who frequent downtown know how to avoid paying for parking and having to walk terribly far, even on big event nights. One thing that does help during something like St. Patrick's Day or Tulsa Tough is to ride a motorcycle, you can always park a whole lot closer in. ;)
Quote from: CharlieSheen on June 24, 2011, 09:02:53 AM
I just don't want to pay to park. On a friday night with a baseball game, pac event, back alley grand opening... I couldn't find a damn place to park less than 10 blocks away. It was still damn hot outside.
C'mon man. I parked for free, on the street, just south of 3rd and Elgin just before 7pm to take the family, including little ones, to the Drillers game on that same night. It took all of 5 minutes to walk to Archer and Elgin. Walking through the Blue Dome with the Back Alley event was enjoyable especially with the live music going on the way home.
Our central city suffers from general poor perceptions. We don't need more parking downtown. In the aggregate, we've got TONS of parking: surface, street, and structure. The City should
continue to improve the public realm - the public experience as a pedestrian so that walking doesn't feel so unbearable and individuals feel better about walking more than a block to a destination; think shade trees, flowers, fountains, pleasant street lighting, shorter crosswalks. It helps tremendously if the ground level of buildings are built up to sidewalks and present an active and engaging street level facade.
Downtown's on its way back. There are some very exciting things that have recently happened and are happening and planned to happen that are drawing more people down here. I think some synergy is building that will continue to draw more people and business investment down here. If there is something that people want to be here for, including just the plain ole' energy that crowds of people tend to generate they'll walk. Our City can help by making sure the public realm more than supports that mode of transport or else our streets will be used uneccessrily by people cruising just a few blocks looking for door front parking. I tend to think that we can incorporate a safe, fun, identifiable transit system that is practical (and free or very inexpensive to users) to help support business investment and perception down here as well.
Even round lazy okie will walk when it's enjoyable.
Quote from: rdj on June 24, 2011, 10:10:50 AM
Considering at least one of those buildings is operated by American Parking, what competition are you referring to?
The building directly south of ENSO.
Quote from: OurTulsa on June 24, 2011, 11:47:15 AM
C'mon man. I parked for free, on the street, just south of 3rd and Elgin just before 7pm to take the family, including little ones, to the Drillers game on that same night. It took all of 5 minutes to walk to Archer and Elgin. Walking through the Blue Dome with the Back Alley event was enjoyable especially with the live music going on the way home.
I too went to the Blue Dome that evening and parked on the street halfway between the restaurant and the ball park. Charlie, you must suck at finding free parking.
People around here will walk when there is something they believe is worth a walk. A walk from the outer parking lots at Woodland Hills is probably farther than most walks downtown. Just something to think about.
I can't speak for that specific night, but I'd be willing to wager a sizable sum that I could find completely legal free parking within four-five blocks of any downtown destination at any time, no matter how many events are in town.
Just start heading toward the more desolate parts of downtown (south/southeast if you're going to the Blue Dome). If nothing else, just park in an alley or a spot along the street that's not really a spot.
There's no parking enforcement on weekends anyway. As long as you're not double parked blocking a police car, I don't think it's possible to get a ticket on nights/weekends.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on June 24, 2011, 12:10:03 PM
I too went to the Blue Dome that evening and parked on the street halfway between the restaurant and the ball park. Charlie, you must suck at finding free parking.
You probably didn't get there at 8:00. If you would have moved your damn car I would have had a spot.
I misstated, I could have gone about 6 blocks away. I don't want to do it when its 95 degrees out though. I normally find free spots somehwere. But after 10 minutes of driving around it isn't worth it any more. We went down elgin, then went south on kenosha went west on 3rd.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on June 24, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
I misstated, I could have gone about 6 blocks away. I don't want to do it when its 95 degrees out though. I normally find free spots somehwere. But after 10 minutes of driving around it isn't worth it any more. We went down elgin, then went south on kenosha went west on 3rd.
You could have simply hi-jacked a gasoline tanker and come roaring down second street.
Quote from: rdj on June 24, 2011, 07:59:34 AM
Artist, do you mean the buildings on the west side of Detroit Ave south of Enso? If so, I wouldn't park my car in them because they are about to fall down. An American Parking employee told me the cost to rehab and bring to code is too high for a reasonable return. It's too bad because they're cool looking buildings.
I have heard that the building you mention is about to become a new retail business. When it is officially announced, I will say, "I told you so".
Quote from: RecycleMichael on July 08, 2011, 10:31:50 AM
I have heard that the building you mention is about to become a new retail business. When it is officially announced, I will say, "I told you so".
If being the most correct on an internet forum gets your blood pumping then congrats and hope it doesn't pump too hard!
We were talking about two different buildings. There are two buildings there that have parking, one is operated by American Parking, one is not.
Bottom line, I'm glad to hear about more retail on Detroit. Dwelling Spaces has gone it solo for far too long. On a separate but related note, the ownership of Lyons Indian Store need to take it down a notch about their reserved parking. Talked to several people that have run in to Joebots Coffee just long enough to get a drink and have come back out to find a notice taped to their car when they are the only car parked in one of their 8-10 spots. I am all for protecting what is yours, but you're not going to win any customers (or sustain a shopping district) by alienating patrons with threats of booting cars in obvious slow times for your shop.
Yes. The building with American parking stickers on it that you said was falling down is going to be rented.
It is not just that I am right, it is just you posted heresay and crappy information. Stuff like that hurts the neighborhood.
Lyon's Indian Store behavior does make a bad neighbor as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought 99% of Internet forums were hear say?
Quote from: rdj on July 08, 2011, 07:24:34 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought 99% of Internet forums were hear say?
That is a good point. By the way, the rumor I hear is grocery.
Ooooh, I would love for this to be true. I hope there is an official announcement soon...