http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42880435/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/
Quote from: guido911 on May 03, 2011, 09:40:43 PM
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42880435/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/
'Panetta, who in a 2009 CIA confirmation hearing declared "waterboarding is torture and it's wrong," said Tuesday that debate about its use will continue.
"Whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always gonna be an open question," Panetta said.'
I don't think he's wrong about either thing.
Company line, Guido?
Quote from: we vs us on May 03, 2011, 09:46:58 PM
'Panetta, who in a 2009 CIA confirmation hearing declared "waterboarding is torture and it's wrong," said Tuesday that debate about its use will continue.
"Whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always gonna be an open question," Panetta said.'
I don't think he's wrong about either thing.
Neither do I. I just find it interesting how these techniques
could have worked given its controversy.
Interestingly, Rumsfeld said that this information wasn't likely obtained with torture.
Quote from: nathanm on May 03, 2011, 10:53:20 PM
Interestingly, Rumsfeld said that this information wasn't likely obtained with torture.
So a "righty" denies and a "lefty" kinda confirms? Countdown to attack on Obama and Panetta from the left in this forum for using possible torture-induced evidence to begin: 3...2...1
edited. Rummy getting some left wing love in here.
Quote from: nathanm on May 03, 2011, 10:53:20 PM
Interestingly, Rumsfeld said that this information wasn't likely obtained with torture.
Rummy has been out of the loop for what, four years now? How would he know? He and Cheney need to follow their former boss' example and stay the love out of the current admin's business unless they are asked for their help or opinion by the administration.
Water boarding was always a red herring, just another way for the left to express outrage at President Bush.
Just funny, things like rendition, Patriot Act, Gitmo, stepping up the number of boots on the ground in Afghanistan all things the left criticized President Bush for have all been used under the current admin. Wonder how they like their chump change.
U.S. Refusal of 2001 Taliban Offer Gave bin Laden a Free Pass
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/05/03-6
Lest we forget:
This was the FIRST time Bush let bin Laden get away. Tora Bora was the second...that we know about.
Once MAY have been incompetence - but twice?
Quote from: Teatownclown on May 04, 2011, 10:14:15 AM
U.S. Refusal of 2001 Taliban Offer Gave bin Laden a Free Pass
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/05/03-6
Lest we forget:
This was the FIRST time Bush let bin Laden get away. Tora Bora was the second...that we know about.
Once MAY have been incompetence - but twice?
Bullshit, this was a kangaroo court and the offer from the Taliban was a pure mockery.
"The last Taliban foreign minister, Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil, offered at a secret meeting in Islamabad Oct. 15, 2001 to put bin Laden in the custody of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), to be tried for the 9/11 terror attacks on the United States, Muttawakil told IPS in an interview in Kabul last year.
The OIC is a moderate, Saudi-based organisation representing all Islamic countries. A trial of bin Laden by judges from OIC member countries might have dealt a more serious blow to al Qaeda's Islamic credentials than anything the United States would have done with bin Laden."
I thought you wingers would feast on my linkage. The reason why America doesn't 'trust' international courts is because we are so busy breaking international laws, and would be subject to them.
Shouldn't you watch your language? :D
Quote from: Teatownclown on May 04, 2011, 01:55:01 PM
The reason why America doesn't 'trust' international courts is because we are so busy breaking international laws, and would be subject to them.
Know of any countries that do obey them?
Good point. ;)
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 09:12:50 AM
Water boarding was always a red herring, just another way for the left to express outrage at President Bush.
Just funny, things like rendition, Patriot Act, Gitmo, stepping up the number of boots on the ground in Afghanistan all things the left criticized President Bush for have all been used under the current admin. Wonder how they like their chump change.
Yeah, torture is a red herring. ::)
For what it's worth, there's a lot of people attacking Obama from the left on exactly those issues you bring up.
Quote from: nathanm on May 03, 2011, 10:53:20 PM
Interestingly, Rumsfeld said that this information wasn't likely obtained with torture.
You trust what this little beady eyed weasel says?
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 04, 2011, 07:56:07 PM
You trust what this little beady eyed weasel says?
Not really, I just thought it was interesting.
Quote from: nathanm on May 03, 2011, 10:53:20 PM
Interestingly, Rumsfeld said that this information wasn't likely obtained with torture.
I just assumed you had a source for that. Here's Rumsfeld explaining his position on "waterboarding" and its success on an evil Fox News show.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/03/rumsfeld_those_who_deny_waterboarding_helped_arent_facing_the_truth.html
Yeah, it turns out he decided to walk back his previous comments when he went on Fox. Serves me right, believing he wasn't being as untrustworthy as usual.
Quote from: nathanm on May 04, 2011, 10:08:11 PM
Yeah, it turns out he decided to walk back his previous comments when he went on Fox. Serves me right, believing he wasn't being as untrustworthy as usual.
Do you have a link to support your initial point?
Quote from: guido911 on May 04, 2011, 10:15:05 PM
Do you have a link to support your initial point?
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/DonaldRumsfeld-gitmo-waterboarding-osamabinladen/2011/05/02/id/394820?s=al&promo_code=C30F-1
I don't appreciate the implication, by the way.
Quote from: nathanm on May 04, 2011, 10:18:09 PM
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/DonaldRumsfeld-gitmo-waterboarding-osamabinladen/2011/05/02/id/394820?s=al&promo_code=C30F-1
I don't appreciate the implication, by the way.
Not giving a rat's heiron what you think about my "implication". Here is Rumsfeld setting the record straight (go to 2:30).
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/03/rumsfeld_those_who_deny_waterboarding_helped_arent_facing_the_truth.html
Quote from: guido911 on May 04, 2011, 10:30:39 PM
Not giving a rat's heiron what you think about my "implication". Here is Rumsfeld setting the record straight (go to 2:30).
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/03/rumsfeld_those_who_deny_waterboarding_helped_arent_facing_the_truth.html
Funny how he contradicts himself (and many experts in interrogation)
Quote from: nathanm on May 04, 2011, 05:04:37 PM
Yeah, torture is a red herring. ::)
For what it's worth, there's a lot of people attacking Obama from the left on exactly those issues you bring up.
In the context it was used against the Bush Admin by the peaceniks, it very much was a red herring. The Bush Admin did nothing different from it's predecessors. The implication was that water boarding was invented during the WOT which is total BS, it's been around for centuries. Had you
ever heard that term prior to 2007 or so?
Leon said, "time for a martini....a Bin Ladentini.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2011, 11:11:05 PM
In the context it was used against the Bush Admin by the peaceniks, it very much was a red herring. The Bush Admin did nothing different from it's predecessors. The implication was that water boarding was invented during the WOT which is total BS, it's been around for centuries. Had you ever heard that term prior to 2007 or so?
Nobody claimed Bush invented it. The Bush administration was the first (that I'm aware of) US Administration in modern history to claim that torture is AOK, though. Obviously, prior to the 1900s torture was the norm even among the most 'peacenik', and was pretty standard until after WWI. I generally prefer to move forward rather than backward, however.
His administration not only argued that it was reasonable under the circumstances, but also that it was legal, despite longstanding Congressional prohibitions on the practice and our ratifying a treaty banning the practice in 1992. If you hadn't noticed, treaties ratified by Congress are as good as the Constitution itself in authority. (Article 6)
High-ranking Obama administration official Panetta finally gets it.
Quote
BAGHDAD — Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Monday appeared to justify the U.S. invasion of Iraq as part of the war against al-Qaeda, an argument controversially made by the Bush administration but refuted by President Obama and many Democrats.
Panetta made his remarks during his his inaugural visit to Iraq as Pentagon chief. Speaking to about 100 soldiers at Camp Victory, the largest U.S. military installation in Baghdad, he said his primary goal as defense secretary was to defeat al-Qaeda worldwide...
"The reason you guys are here is because on 9/11 the United States got attacked," Panetta told the troops. "And 3,000 Americans — 3,000 not just Americans, 3,000 human beings, innocent human beings — got killed because of al-Qaeda. And we've been fighting as a result of that."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/panetta-echoes-bush-comments-linking-iraq-invasion-to-war-on-al-qaeda/2011/07/11/gIQA3m3h8H_story.html
[
Emphasis added]. I know, he misspoke or something.
edited.
I bet LP gave the go ahead to kill Karzai's 1/2 brother. He's the assassin in chief for sure. :o
He's doing a bang up job eliminating al queda leaders with drones alone!
edit: I bet his visit to Karzai was an offer the President of Afghanistan couldn't refuse....his 1/2 brother was the horses head.