I heard a brief story about that intersection getting a new traffic circle and artwork.
I'm having a tough time finding information about it. Anyone have a rendering?
Work starts today if I heard correctly.
Bartlett Square 2....
Quote from: Townsend on March 21, 2011, 10:22:14 AM
I heard a brief story about that intersection getting a new traffic circle and artwork.
I'm having a tough time finding information about it. Anyone have a rendering?
Work starts today if I heard correctly.
I remember a traffic circle in Pat Fox's Gunboat Square Master Plan from a few years ago: http://tulsagrad.ou.edu/studio/gunboat/gunboatcomposite.pdf (http://tulsagrad.ou.edu/studio/gunboat/gunboatcomposite.pdf)
I believe this is being funded by the TIF in that part of downtown. I've heard it will include a fountain and landscaping. That is an awkward intersection so this should be an improvement. The streetscape projects in the Pearl along Peoria should be starting soon as well.
I read about the traffic circle in the Gunboat TIF... Was wondering when construction was going to start. I live right there, so I'm really looking forward to an improved intersection!
BTW, just south of this intersection where Elgin turns into 11th and curves toward Detroit, there's a street sign that says you're at the corner of 11th and CARSON. How in the world Carson got all the way over there is beyond me. I'll post a pic later.
Aren't they called "roundabouts?" That area of downtown can use some upgrade. There needs to be a Wally World in the area to the south of the intersection. ;D
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/safety/roundabouts/
do not stop in the roundabout!
keep in the loop! 8)
Kewl, I had worked for a bit with one of the people involved with the project. We were looking at lighting and color choices. At the time they were thinking about putting in some street lights that would be very contemporary or with a deco inspired feel. We had looked at some very interesting street lights and I was pushing for some colors that would have pulled out the bright deco "terracotta, blue and green" tile work found on the Warehouse Market building. Unfortunately I was super busy at the time and never got back with them on that. I hope they still went somewhat in that direction versus just black or green. The multicolored approach would have imo greatly enhanced a wonderful asset we already had and would have made that entrance into downtown more fun and lively, like you were some place special.
But there did seem to be some possible hang ups which could deter our ideas. One, there is apparently some rule or regulation that the lights in some areas have to have bolts which allow the light to fall down if the light is hit and a lot of the lighting choices did not have the exact feature that was required, (or would have required a bit more effort or money to make it that way, heaven forbid you do something outside the exact specifications or regulations regardless of if its good enough for other cities), or they had to be up on a cement pylon which again may not have been allowed in that area due to traffic. Don't remember all the details but it was frustrating. The rules seemed a bit inflexible, didn't allow for much variation, and too hard to offer any "creative" or different solutions. It was this way, this is all we know, and thats that. Also the colors may not have worked in case parts had to be replaced. Custom colors were not much different up front and buying a large number, but in the future if you wanted one part... then it might cost ya. So yet another reason to go to same ol same ol blah.
I hope we get something unique, lively and different,,, BUT the rules reward conformity and sameness, not the exceptional. I wish I had had more time to stick around and help push for the really neat lights but just couldn't do it at that particular time. I hope the guy I was working with managed to get us something special there for I think he and others really did want it to be something different. Oh, and we were looking at the glare preventing, energy efficient, cut off type lights. We will see how that effort went too lol.
If they can do interesting street lights in other parts of town (11th between Delaware & Harvard, for example) I'm sure it's allowed downtown. And just about anything would be an improvement over acorn lights that currently cover most of downtown (but thankfully not at Gunboat).
Quote from: SXSW on March 21, 2011, 12:42:47 PM
I believe this is being funded by the TIF in that part of downtown. I've heard it will include a fountain and landscaping. That is an awkward intersection so this should be an improvement. The streetscape projects in the Pearl along Peoria should be starting soon as well.
Driving down Peoria they were shutting off the right Northbound lane from about 12th to well North of 11th. Will the streetscaping come that far South?
Interesting intersection on which to try a traffic circle given the odd angles of the streets and the elevation change. With the work on the BA Expressway bridges at Utica, I've been using 11 St. a lot more lately and this intersection is really in poor condition.
This is part of a "downtown gateways" project involving money from several sources.
With 11th & Elgin and 6th & Peoria I often see people who can't figure out the interesection so a traffic circle may actually be an improvement.
Quote from: TheArtist on March 21, 2011, 01:37:53 PM
rule or regulation that the lights in some areas have to have bolts which allow the light to fall down if the light is hit
Breakaway Luminaire standards have advantages, and disadvantages
http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_dept/policy_guide/road_hardware/qa_bsls.cfm
but thankfully, the notorious Acorn lights dont meet most of thise standards. In many impacts, the heavy glass globe crashes through the windshield, killing or severely injuring occupants.
Quote from: sgrizzle on March 21, 2011, 02:39:38 PM
This is part of a "downtown gateways" project involving money from several sources.
With 11th & Elgin and 6th & Peoria I often see people who can't figure out the interesection so a traffic circle may actually be an improvement.
Any way to see proposed renderings or plans? Guessing GKFF or TCF have some involvement in this... Is that right?
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 21, 2011, 03:02:07 PM
Any way to see proposed renderings or plans? Guessing GKFF or TCF have some involvement in this... Is that right?
I also really want to see renderings. So is the Pearl streetscaping starting right now too, or will that be longer? And then I wonder when the canal will start??
Construction will begin during the week of March 21 on a street improvement and waterline replacement project that includes three intersections: East 11th Street and South Peoria Avenue, East Sixth Street and South Peoria Avenue, and East 10th Street and South Elgin Avenue. The contractor will begin the project working at 11th Street and Peoria Avenue.
Construction at 11th and Peoria and at Sixth and Peoria will include street rehabilitation - removing old pavement, making repairs under the surface, and then placing new pavement for street surface. Pedestrian traffic signals will be improved at 11th Street and Peoria Avenue and traffic signals will be replaced at Sixth Street and Peoria Avenue.
Improvements at 10th Street and Elgin Avenue include construction of the first modern roundabout in the city of Tulsa. A roundabout is larger than a traffic circle, such as at Fifth and Main streets; but smaller than a rotary, such as at Admiral Place and Mingo Road. Artwork is planned for the center island of the roundabout.
This three-intersection project includes burying some utility lines and installation of many streetscape features:
• Decorative sidewalks and crosswalks
• LED street lighting
• Cast-iron bollards
• Bike racks and benches at Sixth and Peoria
• On-street parking on Peoria Avenue between Sixth Street and 11th Street
• Centennial Clock at Centennial Park near Sixth Street and Peoria Avenue
As exciting as energy-efficient LED lights are, they went with a very blue color for the lights, with a color temperature around 4500K. That's a shame, because the manufacturer (Beacon) as well as almost all others offer lighting colors much closer to incandescent light.
I dont believe that was a consideration in the initial stages, but once they have a couple of them up they will see what a difference color makes as far as perceptions of safety and "invitingness" go.
Good news is that more "warm white" LED go on the market every week, with colors that are almost indistinguishable from good old fashioned incandescent light:
March 15, 2011...Osram Opto Semiconductors reports that it has set a new laboratory record of 142 lumens-per-watt the efficiency of a warm white LED light source. The LED with a correlated color temperature (CCT) of 2755 K achieves a color rendering index (CRI) of 81..
According to the company, the peak value of 142 lm/W was measured under standard conditions. It was achieved at a color perception that the company says very closely matches that of a classic incandescent lamp.
Thanks for posting that patric.
Found the original master plan for Gunboat...
http://tulsagrad.ou.edu/studio/gunboat/gunboatcomposite.pdf (http://tulsagrad.ou.edu/studio/gunboat/gunboatcomposite.pdf)
These are all proposals, so I'd like to see the final design of the roundabout/traffic circle (since the proposal moves some of the side streets around).
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 21, 2011, 03:53:43 PM
Found the original master plan for Gunboat...
http://tulsagrad.ou.edu/studio/gunboat/gunboatcomposite.pdf (http://tulsagrad.ou.edu/studio/gunboat/gunboatcomposite.pdf)
These are all proposals, so I'd like to see the final design of the roundabout/traffic circle (since the proposal moves some of the side streets around).
Cool coloring job!
Quote from: patric on March 21, 2011, 03:20:17 PM
Construction will begin during the week of March 21 on a street improvement and waterline replacement project that includes three intersections: East 11th Street and South Peoria Avenue, East Sixth Street and South Peoria Avenue, and East 10th Street and South Elgin Avenue. The contractor will begin the project working at 11th Street and Peoria Avenue.
Construction at 11th and Peoria and at Sixth and Peoria will include street rehabilitation - removing old pavement, making repairs under the surface, and then placing new pavement for street surface. Pedestrian traffic signals will be improved at 11th Street and Peoria Avenue and traffic signals will be replaced at Sixth Street and Peoria Avenue.
Improvements at 10th Street and Elgin Avenue include construction of the first modern roundabout in the city of Tulsa. A roundabout is larger than a traffic circle, such as at Fifth and Main streets; but smaller than a rotary, such as at Admiral Place and Mingo Road. Artwork is planned for the center island of the roundabout.
This three-intersection project includes burying some utility lines and installation of many streetscape features:
• Decorative sidewalks and crosswalks
• LED street lighting
• Cast-iron bollards
• Bike racks and benches at Sixth and Peoria
• On-street parking on Peoria Avenue between Sixth Street and 11th Street
• Centennial Clock at Centennial Park near Sixth Street and Peoria Avenue
As exciting as energy-efficient LED lights are, they went with a very blue color for the lights, with a color temperature around 4500K. That's a shame, because the manufacturer (Beacon) as well as almost all others offer lighting colors much closer to incandescent light.
I dont believe that was a consideration in the initial stages, but once they have a couple of them up they will see what a difference color makes as far as perceptions of safety and "invitingness" go.
Good news is that more "warm white" LED go on the market every week, with colors that are almost indistinguishable from good old fashioned incandescent light:
March 15, 2011...Osram Opto Semiconductors reports that it has set a new laboratory record of 142 lumens-per-watt the efficiency of a warm white LED light source. The LED with a correlated color temperature (CCT) of 2755 K achieves a color rendering index (CRI) of 81..
According to the company, the peak value of 142 lm/W was measured under standard conditions. It was achieved at a color perception that the company says very closely matches that of a classic incandescent lamp.
Good to see they are expanding the on-street parking along Peoria between 6th and 11th. Hopefully these improvements will spur redevelopment. The east side of Peoria in that area is perfect for loft apartments fronting the street with downtown views. It's not in the flood plain either so it's not impacted by the drainage improvements like the areas along 6th and further east around 8th & Rockford.
So does this mean Robbie Bell has to move all the stuff he has stored there?
Quote from: dbacks fan on March 21, 2011, 04:29:22 PM
So does this mean Robbie Bell has to move all the stuff he has stored there?
Yes....over to the west bank!
Here are some ideas for apartments in that area. If you want to Google Earth it, use Central & Portland Phoenix, AZ
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.45996,-112.07377&z=16&t=h&hl=en (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.45996,-112.07377&z=16&t=h&hl=en)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings018-1.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings017-1.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings016-1.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings015-1.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings013.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings001.jpg)
Quote from: Teatownclown on March 21, 2011, 04:36:17 PM
Yes....over to the west bank!
He will probably have to clear that with the Israelis first.
Quote from: Conan71 on March 21, 2011, 05:02:28 PM
He will probably have to clear that with the Israelis first.
:D ;D
Quote from: Conan71 on March 21, 2011, 05:02:28 PM
He will probably have to clear that with the Israelis first.
Palin's already over there. Maybe Robbie's mom can call her for a solid.
Quote from: Conan71 on March 21, 2011, 05:02:28 PM
He will probably have to clear that with the Israelis first.
Yes, that's where Birchers go to be reformed! ;)
Just saw the poor owner of the Corner Cafe praying to the media/public that the city will work fast to complete the improvement and hoping that the public will remember they are still there.
Why can't the city show more concern for the small local businesses and complete more area projects instead of dragging them out hop scotching all over the major arterials?
I want a street commissioner form of government.
Quote from: Teatownclown on March 21, 2011, 05:16:38 PM
Yes, that's where Birchers go to be reformed! ;)
Just saw the poor owner of the Corner Cafe praying to the media/public that the city will work fast to complete the improvement and hoping that the public will remember they are still there.
Why can't the city show more concern for the small local businesses and complete more area projects instead of dragging them out hop scotching all over the major arterials?
I want a street commissioner form of government.
Agreed. At the very least, there needs to be some sort of stipend to help out business owners when the city interrupts their business for an extended period.
Anyone else sick of orange barrels yet?
Quote from: Conan71 on March 21, 2011, 07:17:33 PM
Anyone else sick of orange barrels yet?
Sure am. How about making them Florescent Lavender?
Hey, someone stole my identity! I guess that is what I get for not posting in a long time.
It was a coincidence. Besides, mine is more descriptive of this town.
Quote from: Teatownclown on March 21, 2011, 09:16:54 PM
It was a coincidence. Besides, mine is more descriptive of this town.
Actually, it's more descriptive of
you
Don't feed the trolls.
Here's the intersection I was talking about yesterday. The sign says you're at the intersection of E. 11th & Carson (which is an impossibility--Carson is W.), when in reality, you're just standing at a curve in 11th St.
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 22, 2011, 09:52:09 AM
Here's the intersection I was talking about yesterday. The sign says you're at the intersection of E. 11th & Carson (which is an impossibility--Carson is W.), when in reality, you're just standing at a curve in 11th St.
Maybe they ran out of street signs and had this one for a spare and figured no one would notice ;)
How long has it been like that, any idea?
Quote from: Conan71 on March 22, 2011, 09:57:00 AM
Maybe they ran out of street signs and had this one for a spare and figured no one would notice ;)
How long has it been like that, any idea?
No idea, but probably a while. I figure they meant to put it at W. 11th & Carson and got a) the wrong sign and b) put it in the wrong place. I've yet to check whether 11th & Carson actually says "11th & 11th" :P.
Another funny thing about this is that the section labeled "Carson" goes E-W.
Edit: Just checked Google Maps and W. 11th and Carson is labeled correctly.
Based on the picture of the intersection, I wonder if the circle/roundabout will need additional room - possibly from one of the adjacent parking lots?
Quote from: DTowner on March 22, 2011, 11:16:31 AM
Based on the picture of the intersection, I wonder if the circle/roundabout will need additional room - possibly from one of the adjacent parking lots?
I made an overlay of the proposal in pfox's plan and the existing alignment. I have no clue if that's what's actually getting built, but if it is, only one building and part of one parking lot are in danger. (And that, of course, is if only the roundabout is constructed and the additional wedge-shaped block isn't carved out with the proposed new street connecting Detroit and 11th.)
Im sure there is a better image, but it's supposedly more like this:
(http://video-static.clipsyndicate.com/zStorage/clipsyndicate/69/2011/03/22/02/27/d4e20883d23e6ca0ce63bd7baaff0e1c.bd0665a2-7293-4f76-9cd7-29b0a4a29754_400x300.jpg)
Quote from: patric on March 22, 2011, 12:39:40 PM
Im sure there is a better image, but it's supposedly more like this:
(http://video-static.clipsyndicate.com/zStorage/clipsyndicate/69/2011/03/22/02/27/d4e20883d23e6ca0ce63bd7baaff0e1c.bd0665a2-7293-4f76-9cd7-29b0a4a29754_400x300.jpg)
That seems pretty tight to me, especially given that both 10th and 11th leading into this are 4 lanes.
Quote from: DTowner on March 22, 2011, 05:20:49 PM
That seems pretty tight to me, especially given that both 10th and 11th leading into this are 4 lanes.
Should be ok as long as no drunk cheerleaders from Owasso ever drive that way.
Quote from: DTowner on March 22, 2011, 05:20:49 PM
That seems pretty tight to me, especially given that both 10th and 11th leading into this are 4 lanes.
It's funneled down to two lanes before the roundabout.
Quote from: Ibanez on March 22, 2011, 05:43:00 PM
Should be ok as long as no drunk cheerleaders from Owasso ever drive that way.
+1
Here's a map included in today's Tulsa World story (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20110324_11_A11_CUTLIN160713) on the roundabout. The article states that the center island will be 110' in diameter.
(http://www.tulsaworld.com//articleimages/2011/a11graphic03242011.jpg)
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 24, 2011, 09:51:16 AM
Here's a map included in today's Tulsa World story on the roundabout. The article states that the center island will be 110' in diameter.
(http://www.tulsaworld.com//articleimages/2011/a11graphic03242011.jpg)
I live 1/4 mile away from 1 of 2 traffic circles in town (Admiral & Mingo). If the way people navigate the current ones are any indication, we're in trouble. People don't seem to understand who has the right of way in a traffic circle. If you are entering the circle, you yield. If you are in the circle, you have right of way. Simple as that. Don't know why Tulsa drivers don't understand it.
Quote from: Hoss on March 24, 2011, 09:54:31 AM
I live 1/4 mile away from 1 of 2 traffic circles in town (Admiral & Mingo). If the way people navigate the current ones are any indication, we're in trouble. People don't seem to understand who has the right of way in a traffic circle. If you are entering the circle, you yield. If you are in the circle, you have right of way. Simple as that. Don't know why Tulsa drivers don't understand it.
I'll work on that as soon as I get them to understand blinkers, left lane is for passing, and throwing cigarettes out of the window during dry weather causes fires.
Quote from: Townsend on March 24, 2011, 10:01:07 AM
I'll work on that as soon as I get them to understand blinkers, left lane is for passing, and throwing cigarettes out of the window during dry weather causes fires.
I always wondered about the blinker thing. Maybe some models didn't come with them?
;D
Quote from: Hoss on March 24, 2011, 10:08:36 AM
I always wondered about the blinker thing. Maybe some models didn't come with them?
;D
If you use them all the time, you will just wear them out. Then you won't have them when you really need them, like diving across 3 lanes of traffic to make a turn you should have prepared for 1/2 mile before.
;D
Quote from: Hoss on March 24, 2011, 09:54:31 AM
I live 1/4 mile away from 1 of 2 traffic circles in town (Admiral & Mingo). If the way people navigate the current ones are any indication, we're in trouble. People don't seem to understand who has the right of way in a traffic circle. If you are entering the circle, you yield. If you are in the circle, you have right of way. Simple as that. Don't know why Tulsa drivers don't understand it.
I see road rage incidents about once every 8-10 trips through the one at 36th & Hudson and someone not understanding ROW at least once every two trips through it. They might as well just call them clusterf*cks.
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 24, 2011, 09:51:16 AM
The article states that the center island will be 110' in diameter.
Only a 55 ft radius. Sounds like a (racing) challenge to me.
Quote from: Hoss on March 24, 2011, 10:08:36 AM
I always wondered about the blinker thing. Maybe some models didn't come with them?
;D
And the number of uses of the turn signals seems to be the inverse of what the car cost.
"I drive a Mercedes. I can't be bothered with a turn signal, I'm too important, can't you see by my $80,000 car?"
Quote from: Conan71 on March 24, 2011, 10:31:21 AM
I see road rage incidents about once every 8-10 trips through the one at 36th & Hudson and someone not understanding ROW at least once every two trips through it. They might as well just call them clusterf*cks.
My mother claims to have "rescued" my father from New Jersey traffic circles when they got married and chose to live in Pennsylvania.
Quote from: Conan71 on March 24, 2011, 10:33:05 AM
And the number of uses of the turn signals seems to be the inverse of what the car cost.
"I drive a Mercedes. I can't be bothered with a turn signal, I'm too important, can't you see by my $80,000 car?"
Only $80,000? Cheap one.
Quote from: Hoss on March 24, 2011, 09:54:31 AM
I live 1/4 mile away from 1 of 2 traffic circles in town (Admiral & Mingo). If the way people navigate the current ones are any indication, we're in trouble. People don't seem to understand who has the right of way in a traffic circle. If you are entering the circle, you yield. If you are in the circle, you have right of way. Simple as that. Don't know why Tulsa drivers don't understand it.
From what I've found while doing some roundabout/traffic circle/rotary research, roundabouts operate differently than traffic circles and rotaries. Generally in traffic circles, people entering the circle have the right of way instead of people already in it; conversely, in roundabouts, entering traffic must yield to vehicles already in the circle before proceeding.
Here's an animation showing how a modern roundabout works:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/NonUK_Roundabout_8_Cars.gif)
Also, because of this one's smaller size (110' instead of 200') and curved approaches, people will be forced to slow down to enter it.
There are so many varieties of roundabouts, it's hard to say what style we're going to get (just based on the simple renderings the public has been shown), but there are some really cool ones out there.
As the saying goes, this ain't your grandpa's roundabout.
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 24, 2011, 10:36:35 AM
From what I've found while doing some roundabout/traffic circle/rotary research, roundabouts operate differently than traffic circles and rotaries. Generally in traffic circles, people entering the circle have the right of way instead of people already in it; conversely, in roundabouts, entering traffic must yield to vehicles already in the circle before proceeding.
How does one tell if they are entering a roundabout or traffic circle regarding right of way? They look pretty much the same to me.
Also, your animation has a
major flaw. It shows drivers using blinkers.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 24, 2011, 10:42:36 AM
How does one tell if they are entering a roundabout or traffic circle regarding right of way? They look pretty much the same to me.
Also, your animation has a major flaw. It shows drivers using blinkers.
Mainly through striping and signage, like below:
Roundabout:
(http://www.azdot.gov/ccpartnerships/roundabouts/Images/DSCF1255-300W.jpg)
Compare that roundabout to this traffic circle, which has no striping and limited signage:
(http://www.azdot.gov/ccpartnerships/roundabouts/Images/NJcircle10-30-06.jpg)
The Arizona Department of Transportation has a really great website with information, videos and animations. Check it out at http://www.azdot.gov/ccpartnerships/roundabouts/history.asp (http://www.azdot.gov/ccpartnerships/roundabouts/history.asp)
Whatever you call it, when completed this will be a good intersection to avoid unless you're car insurance is paid. I travel through the circle at 36th & Hudson frequently (Desi Wok fix must be met), and it is usually not a problem only because there is very little traffic at the times I travel through it. Four-way stops baffle most Tulsans, so I don't have much hope for their ability to navigate a traffic circle or roundabout. In fairness, if you didn't grow up with them, they are a little weird at first. It took me a while after moving to DC to navigate them with confidence, but most of the circles in DC have more than 2 road intersecting, so there was a lot going on.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Norht+29th+Ave+%26+Happy+Valley+Road+Phoenix,+AZ&aq=&sll=33.67864,-112.156677&sspn=0.266843,0.44014&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Happy+Valley+Rd+%26+N+29th+Ave,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona&ll=33.712756,-112.121916&spn=0.008782,0.013754&z=16 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Norht+29th+Ave+%26+Happy+Valley+Road+Phoenix,+AZ&aq=&sll=33.67864,-112.156677&sspn=0.266843,0.44014&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Happy+Valley+Rd+%26+N+29th+Ave,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona&ll=33.712756,-112.121916&spn=0.008782,0.013754&z=16)
Quote from: dbacks fan on March 24, 2011, 11:20:01 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Norht+29th+Ave+%26+Happy+Valley+Road+Phoenix,+AZ&aq=&sll=33.67864,-112.156677&sspn=0.266843,0.44014&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Happy+Valley+Rd+%26+N+29th+Ave,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona&ll=33.712756,-112.121916&spn=0.008782,0.013754&z=16 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Norht+29th+Ave+%26+Happy+Valley+Road+Phoenix,+AZ&aq=&sll=33.67864,-112.156677&sspn=0.266843,0.44014&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Happy+Valley+Rd+%26+N+29th+Ave,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona&ll=33.712756,-112.121916&spn=0.008782,0.013754&z=16)
That intersection sounds a little dirty.
Quote from: DTowner on March 24, 2011, 11:19:13 AM
Whatever you call it, when completed this will be a good intersection to avoid unless you're car insurance is paid.
Whatever you call it, they've been shown to dramatically
reduce accidents (by as much as 75%), all around the world.
QuoteI travel through the circle at 36th & Hudson frequently (Desi Wok fix must be met), and it is usually not a problem only because there is very little traffic at the times I travel through it.
That traffic circle and the rotary at Admiral and Mingo are nothing like this new one. New designs (last 20+ years) are much easier for drivers (even Tulsa's drivers) to understand and navigate.
DBacks, there are some cool animations of the Happy Valley roundabouts here: http://www.azdot.gov/ccpartnerships/roundabouts/AZ_Roundabouts.asp (http://www.azdot.gov/ccpartnerships/roundabouts/AZ_Roundabouts.asp)
Quote from: dbacks fan on March 24, 2011, 11:20:01 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Norht+29th+Ave+%26+Happy+Valley+Road+Phoenix,+AZ&aq=&sll=33.67864,-112.156677&sspn=0.266843,0.44014&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Happy+Valley+Rd+%26+N+29th+Ave,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona&ll=33.712756,-112.121916&spn=0.008782,0.013754&z=16 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Norht+29th+Ave+%26+Happy+Valley+Road+Phoenix,+AZ&aq=&sll=33.67864,-112.156677&sspn=0.266843,0.44014&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Happy+Valley+Rd+%26+N+29th+Ave,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona&ll=33.712756,-112.121916&spn=0.008782,0.013754&z=16)
I like that the entrances and exits for the Interstate don't happen at the same place. (As they typically do on a Clover Leaf) How do the on-off ramps and circle/roundabouts fare in heavy traffic?
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 24, 2011, 11:31:29 AM
I like that the entrances and exits for the Interstate don't happen at the same place. (As they typically do on a Clover Leaf) How do the on-off ramps and circle/roundabouts fare in heavy traffic?
Very well, once people got used to it, it flows better than if they used traffic signals. There really aren't any clover leaf interchanges here even for highway to highway ones.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 24, 2011, 11:31:29 AM
I like that the entrances and exits for the Interstate don't happen at the same place. (As they typically do on a Clover Leaf) How do the on-off ramps and circle/roundabouts fare in heavy traffic?
The city of Carmel Indiana convinced the state department of transportation to give them ownership of a congested road after the state presented plans to add lanes to ease the congestion. They're now building roundabout interchanges to reduce congestion instead of adding new lanes. I wish our city and state leaders could do something innovative like this instead of making all our intersections a mile wide (Yale is now 8-10 lanes at I-44). This is a cool solution.
Carmel also has been on a roundabout-building craze for the last 10 years and has seen a huge drop in accidents. They now have 55 roundabouts.
Other cities have done similar things, so they must be doing something right! ...something that traditional intersections can't do.
Carmel's Keystone Parkway Project: http://www.carmellink.org/ (http://www.carmellink.org/)
Article by IIHS on Carmel's roundabouts: http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4511.pdf (http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4511.pdf)
This is the closest you will get to a clover leaf interchange in the Phoenix area, and it was never completed.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/I17CloverLeaf.jpg)
This will be an improvement and causing people to be confused/slow down might actually HELP some drivers. Really though, it isn't that difficult. Imagine this being downtown:
(http://www.roundabouts.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Roundabout-Crazy-one-in-Swindon-England.jpg)
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 24, 2011, 12:38:25 PM
This will be an improvement and causing people to be confused/slow down might actually HELP some drivers. Really though, it isn't that difficult. Imagine this being downtown:
(http://www.roundabouts.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Roundabout-Crazy-one-in-Swindon-England.jpg)
That's the "Magic Roundabout" in Swindon, England. It's been called the scariest intersection in the UK. But really, other than throwing five roundabouts into one, roundabouts are pretty simple and straightforward.
The current intersection at 11th and Elgin is the ONLY place in Tulsa I have ever been involved in a wreck (I wasn't driving). In its current state, it can be confusing to say the least. Any change will be an improvement, but it any surprise that some Tulsans would have an adverse reaction to change? :-\
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 24, 2011, 11:25:27 AM
Whatever you call it, they've been shown to dramatically reduce accidents (by as much as 75%), all around the world.
That traffic circle and the rotary at Admiral and Mingo are nothing like this new one. New designs (last 20+ years) are much easier for drivers (even Tulsa's drivers) to understand and navigate.
DBacks, there are some cool animations of the Happy Valley roundabouts here: http://www.azdot.gov/ccpartnerships/roundabouts/AZ_Roundabouts.asp (http://www.azdot.gov/ccpartnerships/roundabouts/AZ_Roundabouts.asp)
How in the hell is the one at Admiral and Mingo not easy to navigate or understand? Yield signs exist at ALL the entrances to the circle. Markings on the road indicating if you're in the outside lane you do NOT enter the circle but turn right exist. Yet over 50 percent of people I see traverse this thing do it wrong. I know several people that avoid the area completely. It's not difficult and this one, if navigated with COMMON SENSE is actually pretty easy to use.
Quote from: Hoss on March 24, 2011, 12:49:05 PM
How in the hell is the one at Admiral and Mingo not easy to navigate or understand? Yield signs exist at ALL the entrances to the circle. Markings on the road indicating if you're in the outside lane you do NOT enter the circle but turn right exist. Yet over 50 percent of people I see traverse this thing do it wrong. I know several people that avoid the area completely. It's not difficult and this one, if navigated with COMMON SENSE is actually pretty easy to use.
Ages ago when I took driver-ed in high school, our driving instructor took us there to learn how to properly use one.
Quote from: Hoss on March 24, 2011, 12:49:05 PM
How in the hell is the one at Admiral and Mingo not easy to navigate or understand? Yield signs exist at ALL the entrances to the circle. Markings on the road indicating if you're in the outside lane you do NOT enter the circle but turn right exist. Yet over 50 percent of people I see traverse this thing do it wrong. I know several people that avoid the area completely. It's not difficult and this one, if navigated with COMMON SENSE is actually pretty easy to use.
I'm not saying that one is hard to use, just that designs have improved
greatly and modern ones are better than that one.
Quote from: Townsend on March 24, 2011, 11:22:04 AM
That intersection sounds a little dirty.
North 69th E. Ave & Virgin is dirtier. ;)
I actually think the roundabout at 10th/11th & Elgin will be an improvement. But I also think it will be dangerous for a while because Tulsa drivers are easily confused by anthing that doesn't involve gunning it from one green light to the next red light, much less navigating this new type of intersection while updating their facebook page.
Here's a neat, interactive page that teaches newbies how to use roundabouts: http://www.ourston.com/resources/educational-tools/animations/four-leg.html (http://www.ourston.com/resources/educational-tools/animations/four-leg.html)
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 24, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Here's a neat, interactive page that teaches newbies how to use roundabouts: http://www.ourston.com/resources/educational-tools/animations/four-leg.html (http://www.ourston.com/resources/educational-tools/animations/four-leg.html)
Yes, but in the animation, it shows drivers slowing down for pedestrians in the crosswalks. I don't remember that happening in Tulsa.
Quote from: dbacks fan on March 24, 2011, 01:53:36 PM
Yes, but in the animation, it shows drivers slowing down for pedestrians in the crosswalks. I don't remember that happening in Tulsa.
Huh? I thought we were suppose to target people that don't have cars.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 24, 2011, 02:45:19 PM
Huh? I thought we were suppose to target people that don't have cars.
10 Points each. First driver to 100 wins.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 24, 2011, 03:01:56 PM
10 Points each. First driver to 100 wins.
Is it 10 points each time you hit somebody new? Or each time you circle you get 10 points for hitting them again?
Quote from: Trogdor on March 24, 2011, 03:06:09 PM
Is it 10 points each time you hit somebody new? Or each time you circle you get 10 points for hitting them again?
Faith based.
Quote from: Trogdor on March 24, 2011, 03:06:09 PM
Is it 10 points each time you hit somebody new? Or each time you circle you get 10 points for hitting them again?
We didn't have the opportunity to hit one again where I learned to drive. I think in fairness it would have to be someone new.
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 24, 2011, 03:25:44 PM
We didn't have the opportunity to hit one again where I learned to drive. I think in fairness it would have to be someone new.
Does getting them with the door count?
Quote from: custosnox on March 24, 2011, 06:59:32 PM
Does getting them with the door count?
Yes, 5 bonus points but you have to use the door opposite the driver (just in case you have right hand steering) and be alone in the car at the time. ;D
Quote from: Red Arrow on March 24, 2011, 08:20:18 PM
Yes, 5 bonus points but you have to use the door opposite the driver (just in case you have right hand steering) and be alone in the car at the time. ;D
How many points if its the back door opposite the driver? Just don't ask how I accomplish it.
Ok people, we will cover this one more time.
Pedestrians in the traffic circle are worth 50 points
Bonus points are awarded for the following:
survives first pass
has wheels (bike, skates, carriage, wheel chair)
poops in diaper (both age brackets)
playing a musical instrument (double bonus if said instrument is a piano or harmonica )
Is a zombie
is a local celebrity
understands how to navigate the traffic turny thingy
Moving on...
Using a simple calculation (a = V2/r, with constants for units conversion) going around the circle at a radius of 65 ft (to stay off the inside curb), at 27 mph you will need a car that can do 0.75 G. To go 30 mph you will need to do 0.92 G.
Be careful. Your results may vary you into the outside curb.
Quote from: carltonplace on March 24, 2011, 08:50:21 PM
Ok people, we will cover this one more time.
Pedestrians in the traffic circle are worth 50 points
Bonus points are awarded for the following:
survives first pass
has wheels (bike, skates, carriage, wheel chair)
poops in diaper (both age brackets)
playing a musical instrument (double bonus if said instrument is a piano or harmonica )
Is a zombie
is a local celebrity
understands how to navigate the traffic turny thingy
Any adders for taking one more banjo or accordion out of circulation?
Quote from: custosnox on March 24, 2011, 08:33:26 PM
How many points if its the back door opposite the driver? Just don't ask how I accomplish it.
Should be easy enough to hang the tail end of the car out, especially with rear wheel drive. Timing will need to be skillful or lucky. Not looping the car will be the trick to score without penalty for using any other part of the car.
Quote from: Conan71 on March 24, 2011, 09:09:06 PM
Any adders for taking one more banjo or accordion out of circulation?
How about mimes?
Quote from: carltonplace on March 24, 2011, 08:50:21 PM
Ok people, we will cover this one more time.
Pedestrians in the traffic circle are worth 50 points
Bonus points are awarded for the following:
survives first pass
has wheels (bike, skates, carriage, wheel chair)
poops in diaper (both age brackets)
playing a musical instrument (double bonus if said instrument is a piano or harmonica )
Is a zombie
is a local celebrity
understands how to navigate the traffic turny thingy
Bonus points are awarded for the following:
Don't forget the height of the first bounce, and the number of times they bounce after the first impact.
This is on the scorecard for downtown Tulsa driving, and should be included since the new area is within the IDL.
What about drunk Owasso cheerleaders? How high should that be scored?
OR how many points for a perennial mayoral candidate that pulls a bike trailer with a blownup object in the trailer behind the bike? ;D
Wow, this is a really great discussion on the benefits and drawbacks of roundabouts.
Quote from: Gonesouth1234 on March 25, 2011, 10:13:41 AM
What about drunk Owasso cheerleaders? How high should that be scored?
1000 point deduction.
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 24, 2011, 12:56:35 PM
I'm not saying that one is hard to use, just that designs have improved greatly and modern ones are better than that one.
I still fail to see how the design of the one at Admiral/Mingo can be improved upon given what it was built for (as traffic relief for workers to/from the airport). It's incredibly simpllistic. I look at some of the photos in this thread of other 'roundabouts' and see how people can get confused.
Quote from: Hoss on March 24, 2011, 12:49:05 PM
How in the hell is the one at Admiral and Mingo not easy to navigate or understand? Yield signs exist at ALL the entrances to the circle. Markings on the road indicating if you're in the outside lane you do NOT enter the circle but turn right exist. Yet over 50 percent of people I see traverse this thing do it wrong. I know several people that avoid the area completely. It's not difficult and this one, if navigated with COMMON SENSE is actually pretty easy to use.
The key word is COMMON SENSE.
I used to work in the area of the Traffic Circle, and came close to joining the ancestors a couple of times while trying to navigate through there. Currently, trying to navigate it on a weekend day while the traffic is on the move to the flea market, is almost suicide.
Traffic count, the volume of traffic, should be a key factor in determining whether or not a roundabout should be constructed at an intersection like 10th and Elgin.
Obviously, at 71st and Memorial, the installation of a roundabout should not even enter the discussion, but an odd ball intersection with 3 or 5 intersecting streets should definitely be a candidate for one.
The main reason that the Traffic Circle exists, if I remember correctly, was because when Cy Avery ran Route 66 through there, he just happened to have his gas station and car service area on the northwest corner. I'm not sure where his hotel was located, but it was also in the immediate area.
Quote from: Gonesouth1234 on March 25, 2011, 10:47:40 AM
The key word is COMMON SENSE.
I used to work in the area of the Traffic Circle, and came close to joining the ancestors a couple of times while trying to navigate through there. Currently, trying to navigate it on a weekend day while the traffic is on the move to the flea market, is almost suicide.
Traffic count, the volume of traffic, should be a key factor in determining whether or not a roundabout should be constructed at an intersection like 10th and Elgin. The one at 36th and Hudson is a perfect example of one that works, although I have had a couple near head on misses there over the years.
Obviously, at 71st and Memorial, the installation of a roundabout should not even enter the discussion, but an odd ball intersection with 3 or 5 intersecting streets should definitely be a candidate for one.
The main reason that the Traffic Circle exists, if I remember correctly, was because when Cy Avery ran Route 66 through there, he just happened to have his gas station and car service area on the northwest corner. I'm not sure where his hotel was located, but it was also in the immediate area.
QuoteTraffic count, the volume of traffic, should be a key factor in determining whether or not a roundabout should be constructed at an intersection like 10th and Elgin.
Obviously, at 71st and Memorial, the installation of a roundabout should not even enter the discussion, but an odd ball intersection with 3 or 5 intersecting streets should definitely be a candidate for one.
Roundabouts actually have a higher traffic volume capacity than regular intersections. If they were built along 71st Street, traffic could actually move more quickly than it does now. We'd see fewer delays because the traffic is continually moving.
QuoteI still fail to see how the design of the one at Admiral/Mingo can be improved upon given what it was built for (as traffic relief for workers to/from the airport). It's incredibly simpllistic (sic). I look at some of the photos in this thread of other 'roundabouts' and see how people can get confused.
It is simple, and more effective than traditional intersections, but modern roundabouts are even more effective. The only confusing roundabout I've seen is the 'Magic Roundabout' in Swindon, England, and only because they literally put five roundabouts together.
A couple of the key differences include entering traffic yielding to circulating traffic, smaller radii, curved approaches and shapes other than true circles being used. They're very different than the rotary at Admiral/Mingo.
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 25, 2011, 10:57:09 AM
Roundabouts actually have a higher traffic volume capacity than regular intersections. If they were built along 71st Street, traffic could actually move more quickly than it does now. We'd see fewer delays because the traffic is continually moving.
It is simple, and more effective than traditional intersections, but modern roundabouts are even more effective. The only confusing roundabout I've seen is the 'Magic Roundabout' in Swindon, England, and only because they literally put five roundabouts together.
A couple of the key differences include entering traffic yielding to circulating traffic, smaller radii, curved approaches and shapes other than true circles being used. They're very different than the rotary at Admiral/Mingo.
I would be for anything that could actually improve the traffic flow in a high density area like 71st.
If traffic lights in Tulsa were actually timed in such a way as to allow better traffic flow, the flow of traffic might not be such a headache. There have been other threads here regarding the flow or traffic on Memorial and 71st due to the timing of lights, or lack of it.
I wonder how a roundabout would fare at 71st and Garnett or 61st and Mingo?
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 25, 2011, 10:57:09 AM
Roundabouts actually have a higher traffic volume capacity than regular intersections. If they were built along 71st Street, traffic could actually move more quickly than it does now. We'd see fewer delays because the traffic is continually moving.
Daniel, that makes the giant leap assumption that the average dumbass Tulsa driver can navigate one of these without causing an accident. All one needs to know about what Tulsa drivers understand about orderly merging and traffic flow is to stand or sit in traffic on the BA eastbound going through downtown after 4:30 pm.
Might work great elsewhere but Tulsa drivers can screw up anything.
Quote from: Conan71 on March 25, 2011, 11:56:16 AM
Daniel, that makes the giant leap assumption that the average dumbass Tulsa driver can navigate one of these without causing an accident. All one needs to know about what Tulsa drivers understand about orderly merging and traffic flow is to stand or sit in traffic on the BA eastbound going through downtown after 4:30 pm.
Might work great elsewhere but Tulsa drivers can screw up anything.
But don't you think there's a chance that Tulsa's system is designed wrong and trying something new like this might actually be the solution? Who knows, maybe stoplights are the reason Tulsa drivers are so bad!
Quote from: dsjeffries on March 25, 2011, 01:59:28 PM
But don't you think there's a chance that Tulsa's system is designed wrong and trying something new like this might actually be the solution? Who knows, maybe stoplights are the reason Tulsa drivers are so bad!
No, their problem started in kindergarten when they couldn't form a line and they kept getting report cards which said: "Doesn't play well with others" It keeps getting progressively worse ;)
Speaking of kindergartners and traffic circles...another FAIL
http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/articlepath.aspx?articleid=20110327_450_0_Adrive389825 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/articlepath.aspx?articleid=20110327_450_0_Adrive389825)
Quote from: bacjz00 on March 27, 2011, 06:26:27 PM
Speaking of kindergartners and traffic circles...another FAIL
http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/articlepath.aspx?articleid=20110327_450_0_Adrive389825 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/articlepath.aspx?articleid=20110327_450_0_Adrive389825)
Yep, it rated more entries on http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=5124.msg168061#msg168061
Day & Nite Rug Cleaners FB pic of the progressing circle.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/376766_463344707032225_1149970053_n.jpg)
From this building:
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/563030_381294958570534_540269718_n.jpg)
I drove through the part of the circle that's open and holy cow, there are going to be tons of accidents there. I know the statistics about traffic circles being safer than traffic lights, but I can say with about 99.9% certainty that some of the idiot drivers in this town will be unable to navigate the circle. The one at fifth and main should be an indicator of that. Some drunk was always plowing into the fountain and now it is blocked off with a wooden barrier because of peoples stupidity. The traffic circle now goes very close to the old warehouse market building and the parking garage accross the street. I'd bet money that within the first year some idiot will plow into it, or if barriers are installed, will plow the barriers. I'd bet even more money that some idiot will drive right through the circle as though it isn't there. At fifth and main there was a friggin large fountain right in front of you and arrows to let you know what was going on and still, time after time, some moron drove right into it. Mark it down. Lots of accidents. You just can't teach some people new tricks when it comes to driving.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 10, 2012, 05:15:23 PM
I drove through the part of the circle that's open and holy cow, there are going to be tons of accidents there. I know the statistics about traffic circles being safer than traffic lights, but I can say with about 99.9% certainty that some of the idiot drivers in this town will be unable to navigate the circle. The one at fifth and main should be an indicator of that. Some drunk was always plowing into the fountain and now it is blocked off with a wooden barrier because of peoples stupidity. The traffic circle now goes very close to the old warehouse market building and the parking garage accross the street. I'd bet money that within the first year some idiot will plow into it, or if barriers are installed, will plow the barriers. I'd bet even more money that some idiot will drive right through the circle as though it isn't there. At fifth and main there was a friggin large fountain right in front of you and arrows to let you know what was going on and still, time after time, some moron drove right into it. Mark it down. Lots of accidents. You just can't teach some people new tricks when it comes to driving.
I know the 5th and main circle is being built so it can be driven over and the one at 11th is similar. The difference at 11th is that the street wasn't straight trough before. No matter which way you enter the intersection, you're headed at a building.
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 10, 2012, 07:27:27 PM
I know the 5th and main circle is being built so it can be driven over and the one at 11th is similar. The difference at 11th is that the street wasn't straight trough before. No matter which way you enter the intersection, you're headed at a building.
So sad. It's like we're having to baby proof our city for the idiot drivers that can't see a huge effing fountain sitting right there in front of them and can't manage the simple task of navigating a traffic circle.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 11, 2012, 09:37:38 AM
So sad. It's like we're having to baby proof our city for the idiot drivers that can't see a huge effing fountain sitting right there in front of them and can't manage the simple task of navigating a traffic circle.
I think the Bartlesville roundabout planners were thinking the same thing. It is basically a large grass pad (with a curb) in the middle. Although, I think they have now added some shrubs and flower beds. But it is still nothing substantial like a monument or something.
I will say, that even though it was a giant mess trying to acquire land rights to do it. It has alleviated traffic immensely at that intersection. Prior to this it was small two lane roads in every direction with no turning lanes. The amount of times I was backed up 1/4 to 1/2 mile waiting for left turners was mind numbing. Now when I approach the intersection I am generally the next car to enter it. The roundabout seems to work pretty well here. There is not a huge amount of traffic, but there is enough.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 11, 2012, 09:37:38 AM
So sad. It's like we're having to baby proof our city for the idiot drivers that can't see a huge effing fountain sitting right there in front of them and can't manage the simple task of navigating a traffic circle.
To credit Tulsan's a little bit, two of hits were by someone from Owasso.
How is it that nobody has ended up taking out the electric pole at 36th and Hudson? No Owassans in that area?
Quote from: nathanm on September 11, 2012, 02:08:10 PM
How is it that nobody has ended up taking out the electric pole at 36th and Hudson? No Owassans in that area?
We have a winner!
I ate at Mazzio's next to the new traffic circle at 11th and Elgin just the other day, and had a chance to look things over.....wow....this is going to be interesting to watch.
I noticed already that there are plenty of tire tracks up on the 'brick surround' in the middle of the circle.
I'm betting since there is really only ONE lane, but appears to be TWO lanes with the brick area barely raised by an angled curb/launching ramp, that cars will be forced up onto the bricks as they go around the circle and can't get off when more cars are getting on....
I just hope they don't put park benches on the brick surround or people are going to get run over.
And can they actually get a bus, or the occasional lost semi-truck around this circle?
I bet this thing is a horrible mistake.....Maybe they should put a fountain in the middle so people will aim for the middle and generate revenue for the city. The city can overcharge to repair the fountain....
Quote from: OwenParkPhil on September 11, 2012, 03:31:57 PM
I'm betting since there is really only ONE lane, but appears to be TWO lanes with the brick area barely raised by an angled curb/launching ramp, that cars will be forced up onto the bricks as they go around the circle and can't get off when more cars are getting on....
If drivers entering the circle can't figure out what yield means, they need to have their driver's licenses taken away.
Quote from: nathanm on September 11, 2012, 03:46:30 PM
If drivers entering the circle can't figure out what yield means, they need to have their driver's licenses taken away.
Agreed. Don't want people that stupid voting anyway.
Quote from: nathanm on September 11, 2012, 03:46:30 PM
If drivers entering the circle can't figure out what yield means, they need to have their driver's licenses taken away.
I don't know, plenty of Tulsans still haven't figued out the purpose of that switch on the steering wheel that makes one light blink.
Quote from: nathanm on September 11, 2012, 03:46:30 PM
If drivers entering the circle can't figure out what yield means, they need to have their driver's licenses taken away.
There would be a ton of vacant vehicles littering Hudson then, the cops would have a field day ::)
Quote from: DTowner on September 11, 2012, 04:03:58 PM
I don't know, plenty of Tulsans still haven't figued out the purpose of that switch on the steering wheel that makes one light blink.
"What's that clicking noise?"
Quote from: Conan71 on September 11, 2012, 04:12:34 PM
There would be a ton of vacant vehicles littering Hudson then, the cops would have a field day ::)
Meh, if people can't figure out how to drive, they shouldn't. Another reason good transit would be nice. ;)
Quote from: nathanm on September 11, 2012, 04:28:04 PM
Meh, if people can't figure out how to drive, they shouldn't. Another reason good transit would be nice. ;)
My BP would drop 20 points during commute time if we could get most of the asshats on public transit
Quote from: nathanm on September 11, 2012, 02:08:10 PM
How is it that nobody has ended up taking out the electric pole at 36th and Hudson? No Owassans in that area?
Owassans can't find it.
Quote from: DTowner on September 11, 2012, 04:03:58 PM
I don't know, plenty of Tulsans still haven't figued out the purpose of that switch on the steering wheel that makes one light blink.
That's why you use it (I presume), it's right on the steering wheel. My car has a lever just in front of the steering wheel. It's still pretty easy to use.
Quote from: Townsend on September 11, 2012, 04:22:40 PM
"What's that clicking noise?"
Boris Badenov and a time bomb.
Quote from: Conan71 on September 11, 2012, 04:36:53 PM
My BP would drop 20 points during commute time if we could get most of the asshats on public transit
Riding the bike, driving the car, or both?
Tulsa's First Traffic Roundabout Simplifies Downtown Intersectionhttp://www.newson6.com/story/19575953/downtown-tulsa-to-get-its-first-traffic-roundabout?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.newson6.com/story/19575953/downtown-tulsa-to-get-its-first-traffic-roundabout?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
QuoteTULSA, Oklahoma - Confusing intersections, with traffic signals that do little more than cause delays provide the perfect place for a roundabout.
Up to now, Tulsa has had traffic circles, but no roundabouts. But that's about to change.
It won't be long until you won't be able to remember how dysfunctional and confounding the intersection of 10th, 11th, and Elgin used to be.
"This is Tulsa's first roundabout," said Doug Duke.
Duke is a traffic engineer with the City of Tulsa. He designed the project.
"Roundabouts have their place in certain instances. This was a good place for one," Duke said.
The old intersection was a merging of 11th Street on the east, 10th Street on the west side of the intersection, and Elgin on the north.
There was a light and folks often went the wrong way. This will solve a traffic headache, but beyond that, it will provide an attractive gateway to downtown.
"This is a significant area of the city: Route 66, the preservation of the old warehouse market, McClure Park—the old ball park was near here," said Bruce Bolzle.
Bolzle is with KMO Development Group. His company is involved with development of this part of downtown and hopes this will spark other projects, as well.
Lighting around it will feature dark-sky compliant lighting, meaning the light focuses down rather than up.
Work is continuing on the roundabout and westbound traffic is getting the first exposure to negotiating it. There's a learning curve for something new like this, but ultimately it should be safer.
"Overall, roundabouts have shown to lessen accident frequency and severity," Duke said.
And this roundabout is small enough that there's little chance we'll get stuck in it, like in the movie National Lampoon's European Vacation.
The city says between now and the end of the year, we should be able to get to and through the roundabout from all directions.
They have yet to decide what will go in the middle.
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/19575953_BG4.jpg)
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/19575953_BG2.jpg)
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/19575953_BG3.jpg)
"This traffic circle is great because people can drive around it and move stuff from one place to another."
-Mayor Dewey Bartlet (sic)
Yield signs, Tulsa, and simplify do not belong in the same sentence. Four-way stops confound Tulsans.
The "generally circular shape" in the middle of the traffic circle in years to come:
(http://www.agr.state.il.us/isf/MPA/images/demderb.jpg)(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/19575953_BG3.jpg)
Maybe I'm just impatient with the constant delays of everything in these parts, but isn't the timeline on this a little excessively lengthy? They started on this in early 2012, I think.
Quote from: TheTed on September 18, 2012, 03:07:43 PM
Yield signs, Tulsa, and simplify do not belong in the same sentence. Four-way stops confound Tulsans.
Tulsa owns the Yield sign: The first US yield sign was installed in 1950 at First Street and Columbia Avenue Tulsa, Oklahoma, having been devised and designed by Tulsa police officer Clinton Riggs
Quote from: TheTed on September 18, 2012, 03:21:53 PM
Maybe I'm just impatient with the constant delays of everything in these parts, but isn't the timeline on this a little excessively lengthy? They started on this in early 2012, I think.
A lot of utility relocation and an odd shape.
Kinda wondering how they still don't know what to put in the middle.
The streetlight optics look good, but we still have a utility that likes to burn off-peak watts (and gets to dictate how much they will be over-lamped).
When you over-lamp, you end up with pools of light surrounded by intense darkness, rather than a nice uniformity the eye can better adapt to.
When you use Full-Cutoff (FCO) like these, you are supposed to reduce wattage. Not only does that increase the quality of the lighting, it helps the fixtures pay for themselves faster by requiring less electricity.
Quote from: carltonplace on September 18, 2012, 03:22:43 PM
Tulsa owns the Yield sign: The first US yield sign was installed in 1950 at First Street and Columbia Avenue Tulsa, Oklahoma, having been devised and designed by Tulsa police officer Clinton Riggs
Got to interview him when he was at Tulsa Junior College. Could listen to his stories for hours. Sadly, his breed is long gone.
He still had the original Yield sign in his office.
Tulsa's contribution to the automobile-centric world (Yield sign) still beats Oklahoma City's (parking meter) hands down.
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 18, 2012, 03:36:28 PM
Kinda wondering how they still don't know what to put in the middle.
Suicide stands brought to you by Owasso Cheerleaders. Go Rams
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 18, 2012, 03:36:28 PM
A lot of utility relocation and an odd shape.
Kinda wondering how they still don't know what to put in the middle.
I know, up lights... sorry Patric but the fountain idea was already taken
Drove through again recently. There is no chance that the old Lyons building doesn't get plowed. It will happen within the first year of opening. Mark it down.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 19, 2012, 09:42:05 AM
Drove through again recently. There is no chance that the old Lyons building doesn't get plowed. It will happen within the first year of opening. Mark it down.
Coming soon then?
(http://new.jpconcrete.co.uk/images/concrete_barrier_2.jpg)
I drove thru Saturday in a 1.5 ton truck. No issue. Plenty of room, the cars around me figured it out just fine. I know we design things for the lowest common denominator, but it's a pretty easy deal to navigate.
Quote from: rdj on September 19, 2012, 09:50:37 AM
I drove thru Saturday in a 1.5 ton truck. No issue. Plenty of room, the cars around me figured it out just fine. I know we design things for the lowest common denominator, but it's a pretty easy deal to navigate.
I think you're vastly overestimating the lowest common denominator in this town, especially when it comes to driving. All it takes is one idiot, drunk or not, and a whole lot of damage will occur.
Quote from: DowntownDan on September 19, 2012, 12:04:03 PM
I think you're vastly overestimating the lowest common denominator in this town, especially when it comes to driving. All it takes is one idiot, drunk or not, and a whole lot of damage will occur.
...and with our lack of automotive insurance coverage state wide...
We do this in Tulsa:
(http://streetmuscleaction.com/wp-content/uploads/20100428_parkinggarage0000428.jpg)
Quote from: Townsend on September 19, 2012, 12:09:21 PM
...and with our lack of automotive insurance coverage state wide...
We do this in Tulsa:
(http://streetmuscleaction.com/wp-content/uploads/20100428_parkinggarage0000428.jpg)
Maybe we should just add a special class for people in Owasso about traffic circles/round a bouts... and mandatory for the entire cheer leading squad.
Quote from: Townsend on September 19, 2012, 12:09:21 PM
...and with our lack of automotive insurance coverage state wide...
We do this in Tulsa:
(http://streetmuscleaction.com/wp-content/uploads/20100428_parkinggarage0000428.jpg)
seen this one circling the net with claims of photoshopping. Stupidity is so thick in Tulsa, apparently the rest of the world simply can't believe it.
Had I not seen the hole in the building with my own eyes, I might not believe it either. :P
I have a couple of pictures of the same incident taken on my phone. I was in my office upstairs when it happened. No photoshopping is needed.
I walked through 11th & Elgin at lunch today...
Looks like it'll open up any hour or day now.
I like the idea of the dark skies lighting that they installed but I hate the actual lights they chose. The blue makes them stand out too much (I know they were trying to work with the blue from the deco market facade) and the style is incongruous with my opinion of what RTE 66 is.
Quote from: carltonplace on October 23, 2012, 08:55:08 AM
I like the idea of the dark skies lighting that they installed but I hate the actual lights they chose. The blue makes them stand out too much (I know they were trying to work with the blue from the deco market facade) and the style is incongruous with my opinion of what RTE 66 is.
That is some bright blue.
Quote from: nathanm on September 20, 2012, 07:53:52 PM
Had I not seen the hole in the building with my own eyes, I might not believe it either. :P
When/where did this happen?
Quote from: carltonplace on October 23, 2012, 08:55:08 AM
I like the idea of the dark skies lighting that they installed but I hate the actual lights they chose. The blue makes them stand out too much (I know they were trying to work with the blue from the deco market facade) and the style is incongruous with my opinion of what RTE 66 is.
I am juuuust old enough to remember Route 66 back when it still had some of its classic character. It was a hodgepodge of quirky, fun, architecture, signage and lighting. On vacation I remember sleping in a tee pee at one of the little motels that looked like an "Indian encampment" with each room being an individual tee pee in a semi-circle around the pool. I remeber oodles of signs at night that were of neon and flashing lights. Starburst light features of all shapes and sizes, the neon running "git-n-go" boy, the U-tote-em pole signs, neon rocket ships with flaming tails, flying saucers, lights and flags strung across the many car lots, flashing blinking turning hotel and motel signs. My personal favorites as a kid were the signs that would look like a sky rocket firework, launching and then exploding in the sky. Don't forget the classic neon and chrome diners. Who remembers the bowling alley with the sign where the neon boy would bowl, you would see the ball "roll" towards the pins then the pins would explode outwards? What are some of the fun signs and architecture that you remember in and around Tulsas Route 66?
Route 66 as we see it today in Tulsa is a dull, dead, rusty, gutted shell of what it once was. Those blue light poles do indeed stand out now, but they wouldn't have back in the day. Imho we could use more color, more quirky fun signage, lights and architecture.
Quote from: TheArtist on October 23, 2012, 10:39:15 AM
I am juuuust old enough to remember Route 66 back when it still had some of its classic character. It was a hodgepodge of quirky, fun, architecture, signage and lighting. On vacation I remember sleping in a tee pee at one of the little motels that looked like an "Indian encampment" with each room being an individual tee pee in a semi-circle around the pool. I remeber oodles of signs at night that were of neon and flashing lights. Starburst light features of all shapes and sizes, the neon running "git-n-go" boy, the U-tote-em pole signs, neon rocket ships with flaming tails, flying saucers, lights and flags strung across the many car lots, flashing blinking turning hotel and motel signs. My personal favorites as a kid were the signs that would look like a sky rocket firework, launching and then exploding in the sky. Don't forget the classic neon and chrome diners. Who remembers the bowling alley with the sign where the neon boy would bowl, you would see the ball "roll" towards the pins then the pins would explode outwards? What are some of the fun signs and architecture that you remember in and around Tulsas Route 66?
Route 66 as we see it today in Tulsa is a dull, dead, rusty, gutted shell of what it once was. Those blue light poles do indeed stand out now, but they wouldn't have back in the day. Imho we could use more color, more quirky fun signage, lights and architecture.
That's actually going on a little between 169 and Memorial on 11th. I haven't been able to take photos but will try to this week.
Quote from: Weatherdemon on October 23, 2012, 10:28:04 AM
When/where did this happen?
Um, that's the Bank of America building, and it was a year or two ago, IIRC (4/28/2010 to be exact). There's a thread on this very forum (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=15469.0). I wasn't downtown while the car was still sticking out, but was by there the next day. Unsurprisingly, the Tulsa World also reported on the incident (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100428_11_0_Downto436318).
Quote from: nathanm on October 23, 2012, 12:39:07 PM
Um, that's the Bank of America building, and it was a year or two ago, IIRC (4/28/2010 to be exact). There's a thread on this very forum (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=15469.0). I wasn't downtown while the car was still sticking out, but was by there the next day. Unsurprisingly, the Tulsa World also reported on the incident (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100428_11_0_Downto436318).
LOL, not sure how I missed that!
Good lord!!
Thanks!
Quote from: Townsend on September 19, 2012, 12:09:21 PM
...and with our lack of automotive insurance coverage state wide...
We do this in Tulsa:
Where and when was that??
Drove through the circle yesterday and it looks like a liquor store called "Modern Spirits" is moving into the old Lyons Indian Store. I'm guessing it will be higher end stuff like Whiskey Business to keep the Nighttrain crowd at bay.
Is there a plan to finish the circle?
I thought it was finished ???
I like watching Okies trying to decypher it.
Quote from: carltonplace on January 23, 2014, 01:58:54 PM
I thought it was finished ???
I like watching Okies trying to decypher it.
Thought I saw something unfinished in the middle of it. I'll take another look this eve.
Quote from: carltonplace on January 23, 2014, 01:58:54 PM
I thought it was finished ???
I like watching Okies trying to decypher it.
Indeed, it's like Oklahoma's version of Stonehenge
The organization mentioned at the top of the page adopted a section of 11th street, including this area. We're looking into the traffic circles.... "spartan-ness"?
Quote from: sgrizzle on January 25, 2014, 09:12:39 PM
The organization mentioned at the top of the page adopted a section of 11th street, including this area. We're looking into the traffic circles.... "spartan-ness"?
Traffic circles or Roundabouts? They are not quite the same thing.