I wonder if the rising gas prices are gradual enough as candidate Obama had preferred.
Has he and other democrat leaders spoken out about these increasing gas prices? Because when these prices were rising when Bush was president, we heard very frequently from dems about how terrible it was and how it was all Bush's fault.
QE1 and QE2; working as intended.
Quote from: HazMatCFO on March 05, 2011, 06:53:43 AM
QE1 and QE2; working as intended.
No, nothing to do with supply constraints from Libya driving up the price of oil. ::)
Quote from: nathanm on March 05, 2011, 12:15:15 PM
No, nothing to do with supply constraints from Libya driving up the price of oil. ::)
As I understand it, Libya supplies about 2% of the world's oil production. Reduced output shouldn't have much effect on world oil prices.
Quote from: Ed W on March 05, 2011, 01:29:32 PM
As I understand it, Libya supplies about 2% of the world's oil production. Reduced output shouldn't have much effect on world oil prices.
Speculators. It has nothing to do with output math. The speculators should all be strung up.
Quote from: Ed W on March 05, 2011, 01:29:32 PM
As I understand it, Libya supplies about 2% of the world's oil production. Reduced output shouldn't have much effect on world oil prices.
I read this on CNBC the other day about the top 15 oil producers in the world and Libya is not even in the top 15.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/41887743?slide=1 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/41887743?slide=1)
Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 05, 2011, 07:14:16 PM
+1000
Was it the speculators fault a few years ago (when Bush was president) when gas prices spiked? As I recall, Pelosi blamed Bush and not the speculators:
See also: http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-17/politics/congress.oil_1_drilling-anwr-pelosi?_s=PM:POLITICS
And there is also this from Hillary and Reid:
QuoteJust in time for the summer driving season comes a rise in the price of gasoline, along with the predictable effort by the Democrats to make political hay of the issue. Senator Clinton issued a statement Monday asserting that "Today's record-high gas prices are the price that the American people are paying for the Bush Administration's failed energy policies."
Said Mrs. Clinton, "We need to move forward with a real energy plan that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil by speeding development of biofuels and more efficient vehicles. I have proposed a $50 billion Strategic Energy Fund to invest in these and other clean energy technologies. It's time for an Apollo project for energy to move us away from foreign oil and towards clean energy alternatives that will reduce prices for consumers, protect our environment and increase our energy independence."
The Senate majority leader, Harold Reid, chimed in with a similar statement, saying, "The news that our nation's gas prices have hit an all-time high – especially as we approach the beginning of the summer travel season – underscores the urgent need for a better national energy policy that quickly brings clean and affordable renewable fuels and more energy-efficient vehicles to market. We have to make it a national priority to reduce our reliance on oil, especially foreign oil."
And, as if there were some kind of coordinated talking points on the topic, the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, Rep. Rahm Emanuel, also sent out a press release about the price of gas. "For six years, Republicans did nothing to make our nation energy independent while handing out taxpayer funded giveaways to big oil. Now the American people are paying the price," Mr. Emanuel said. "This week, Democrats will consider legislation to help prevent gas price gouging and in the coming weeks, we will continue to develop the strategies we need to secure our energy future and protect our environment."
http://www.nysun.com/editorials/gas-and-the-democrats/55074/
So can we now blame Obama for higher gas prices?
Quote from: guido911 on March 05, 2011, 08:33:25 PM
Was it the speculators fault a few years ago (when Bush was president) when gas prices spiked? As I recall, Pelosi blamed Bush and not the speculators:
So can we now blame Obama for higher gas prices?
Look!
(http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/attention-whore/2/AttentionWhore2.jpg)
Quote from: nathanm on March 05, 2011, 12:15:15 PM
No, nothing to do with supply constraints from Libya driving up the price of oil. ::)
Prices were going up before Libyan crisis and will continue to do so.
Quote from: HazMatCFO on March 06, 2011, 10:37:21 AM
Prices were going up before Libyan crisis and will continue to do so.
They went up in anticipation of the Libyan crisis. :)
Prices up 20% before the Libyan crisis as compared to October 2010. libyan crisis just accelerated the increase.
Quote from: HazMatCFO on March 06, 2011, 10:54:09 AM
Prices up 20% before the Libyan crisis as compared to October 2010. libyan crisis just accelerated the increase.
I actually find myself agreeing with you to a degree: which is to say that, thanks to the Fed, there's now yet another vast pool of money floating around out there, and it's chasing any good returns. And just like the housing bubble, the chase tends to bid up the prices of the asset beyond real value. I read a nice little report in Time (http://aids-hiv.daelg.com/2011/03/04/aids-hiv-juven-30-packetscarton-grape/) this week, but have also been tracking it via The Oil Drum (http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7550), which has some very smart commentators.
As Red Arrow points out, the increases began earlier because markets respond to unrest in the Middle East by hoarding products that the Middle East supplies. Beginning with Tunisia, there was plenty of talk about the protests spreading, as they did. When Mubarak came under fire, the markets considered it a major event destabilizing the entire region, as it has. When the supply of a raw material becomes questionable, inventories of that raw material are hoarded and the value of those inventories increases. Like it or not, in a deregulated market the owners of those inventories get to sell them at market prices. Call it speculation if you wish, but stringing up someone because they're selling at market rates is a bit inconsistent with American belief in free enterprise, isn't it?
Libya is a component of the issue. It is probably more significant than the 2% figure mentioned below. Libya is a major supplier to Europe. As suppliers shift to fill the space left by Libya's departure, costs go up and availability goes down for a time. That part will stabilize, but not right away.
Quote from: HazMatCFO on March 06, 2011, 10:54:09 AM
Prices up 20% before the Libyan crisis as compared to October 2010. libyan crisis just accelerated the increase.
Quote from: cynical on March 06, 2011, 11:54:05 AM
Like it or not, in a deregulated market the owners of those inventories get to sell them at market prices. Call it speculation if you wish, but stringing up someone because they're selling at market rates is a bit inconsistent with American belief in free enterprise, isn't it?
Unfortunately, we have allowed ourselves to be in the position of not having much choice about buying petroleum products. The other side of the free market is having the ability to not buy a product you believe is over priced.
I still prefer the deregulated product. I remember gas lines in the early 70s. Gas was still relatively inexpensive but it was only available at 8 gallons at a time at most gas stations in the Va Beach, VA area. It was rationing by the retailers. Fortunately, I was a regular at a particular station and the owner allowed his regular customers to fill up most of the time.
Edit: Think 12 mpg and 20 to 25 gallon gas tanks as being common.
Quote from: guido911 on March 05, 2011, 08:33:25 PM
Was it the speculators fault a few years ago (when Bush was president) when gas prices spiked? As I recall, Pelosi blamed Bush and not the speculators:
I blamed the speculators.
The reason why a supply disruption even in a nation that produces so little of the world's supply has such a large effect is that there is little excess production capacity right now. Moreover, what little there is is mainly heavier varieties of crude, for which there is much less refining capacity than the light stuff. So there is a real supply constraint here.
And the earlier price increases? How about increasing consumption by the BRIC bloc (not to mention rebounding consumption here in the US). ;)
Quote from: nathanm on March 07, 2011, 03:45:51 PM
I blamed the speculators.
The reason why a supply disruption even in a nation that produces so little of the world's supply has such a large effect is that there is little excess production capacity right now. Moreover, what little there is is mainly heavier varieties of crude, for which there is much less refining capacity than the light stuff. So there is a real supply constraint here.
And the earlier price increases? How about increasing consumption by the BRIC bloc (not to mention rebounding consumption here in the US). ;)
And of course, now we know it wasn't President Bush nor the speculator's fault. It was Tom Kivisto getting chased into bankruptcy by Gold Man Sacks.
I think Kivisto did get foobared a little bit......
Quote from: Conan71 on March 07, 2011, 03:57:18 PM
And of course, now we know it wasn't President Bush nor the speculator's fault. It was Tom Kivisto getting chased into bankruptcy by Gold Man Sacks.
Kivisto was just another speculator. SemGroup's "hedging" was far out of proportion to what they actually needed to hedge. Would have been on par with Soros' forex winnings had it worked out, though. SemGroup definitely had an impact on prices, but there are too many billions floating around in the market for oil for them to have done it without plenty of help from others.
Here's another enlightening take on speculation: (http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/07/speculators-double-down-on-oil/)
QuoteBig traders are betting the ranch that oil prices will keep rising, testing the pain threshold of an economy that is not exactly setting records as is.
Large noncommercial speculators – firms that play the futures markets without taking delivery – added to their long position in West Texas Intermediate crude by 50,200 contracts last week, according to Commodity Futures Trading Commission data.
The surge of speculative money into the oil futures pits shows that big financial players are expecting the price of WTI crude to surge well above the recent $105 or so seen last week. If they are right, it will bring $4 gasoline a step closer.
Quote from: nathanm on March 07, 2011, 05:19:56 PM
Kivisto was just another speculator. SemGroup's "hedging" was far out of proportion to what they actually needed to hedge. Would have been on par with Soros' forex winnings had it worked out, though. SemGroup definitely had an impact on prices, but there are too many billions floating around in the market for oil for them to have done it without plenty of help from others.
Have you ever been capable of simply saying: "I agree." ;)
In regards to Wevus' post, obviously regulators learned absolutely nothing from the dangers of speculative options trading. It enrichens people for doing absolutely nothing other than fleecing the general consumer.
Steel prices are up 30 percent right now which impacts my industry. Rising material and gas prices happened right before the bottom fell out the last time in 2008. It could definitely shelve some projects until the bubble pops again which means we could be heading for a double dip. I hope like Hell I'm wrong, but we've seen this before. It wasn't simply a burst in the housing market bubble or Lehman taking the big dump. Runaway oil prices coupled with rising food and raw material prices cost people jobs and made others start hoarding money.
There is simply no way you can't have inflation with rising fuel prices and raw material and food costs going up. I'm normally a Pollyanna when it comes to the economy, but I really don't like this at all.
Quote from: Conan71 on March 08, 2011, 12:01:43 PM
Have you ever been capable of simply saying: "I agree." ;)
In regards to Wevus' post, obviously regulators learned absolutely nothing from the dangers of speculative options trading. It enrichens people for doing absolutely nothing other than fleecing the general consumer.
Steel prices are up 30 percent right now which impacts my industry. Rising material and gas prices happened right before the bottom fell out the last time in 2008. It could definitely shelve some projects until the bubble pops again which means we could be heading for a double dip. I hope like Hell I'm wrong, but we've seen this before. It wasn't simply a burst in the housing market bubble or Lehman taking the big dump. Runaway oil prices coupled with rising food and raw material prices cost people jobs and made others start hoarding money.
There is simply no way you can't have inflation with rising fuel prices and raw material and food costs going up. I'm normally a Pollyanna when it comes to the economy, but I really don't like this at all.
Milk is up.
Top soil is up.
Eggs are up.
Glass is up.
Rubber is up.
We are a nation that feeds on Oil. It is the prime commodity that drives the price of all others. We have little control over the speculative market for Oil because most of the transactions take place off our soil in countries that delight in our willingness to pay more. The idea is to keep our demand high and keep the supply at a level that feeds our addiction without pushing us to capitalize on our own energy sources.
We can shake our fingers all we like, but as long as someone else controls the feeding tube, we are a dangerous puppet on a string. We are Charlie Sheen, and we are "Winning!"
Quote from: Conan71 on March 08, 2011, 12:01:43 PM
Have you ever been capable of simply saying: "I agree." ;)
In regards to Wevus' post, obviously regulators learned absolutely nothing from the dangers of speculative options trading. It enrichens people for doing absolutely nothing other than fleecing the general consumer.
Steel prices are up 30 percent right now which impacts my industry. Rising material and gas prices happened right before the bottom fell out the last time in 2008. It could definitely shelve some projects until the bubble pops again which means we could be heading for a double dip. I hope like Hell I'm wrong, but we've seen this before. It wasn't simply a burst in the housing market bubble or Lehman taking the big dump. Runaway oil prices coupled with rising food and raw material prices cost people jobs and made others start hoarding money.
There is simply no way you can't have inflation with rising fuel prices and raw material and food costs going up. I'm normally a Pollyanna when it comes to the economy, but I really don't like this at all.
I agree ;D
$5.00 gas is great:
http://money.msn.com/how-to-budget/article.aspx?post=e04807fc-e307-45c7-a3b0-9fdabfac3518>1=33009