...to order his officers to attend the Islamic Society's law enforcement appreciation day next month.
Another article on the Whirled about it as well, but don't read if you don't want to get 'teh Stupidz'...
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=14075965
If previous policy has been attendance is voluntary, then I don't see why the PD should make it compulsory to attend this event.
Otherwise the comments are stupid. I listened to the dimwits all the way back from OKC this morning.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 22, 2011, 02:10:51 PM
If previous policy has been attendance is voluntary, then I don't see why the PD should make it compulsory to attend this event.
Otherwise the comments are stupid. I listened to the dimwits all the way back from OKC this morning.
I agree, but if the Deputy Chief ORDERS you to do this due to no one volunteering, it's tantamount to someone ordering me to do something at my job. Do it or get written up; possibly terminated. Why should it be any different at the PD?
Bring on the reeducation camps, I mean, sensitivity training seminars.
Police: Don't want to go? Call in sick and get a phony doctor's note. You will get the support of many in this forum.
Quote from: guido911 on February 22, 2011, 02:34:28 PM
Police: Don't want to go? Call in sick and get a phony doctor's note. You will get the support of many in this forum.
That's stealing. You sure that's the way to go?
Quote from: Townsend on February 22, 2011, 02:39:33 PM
That's stealing. You sure that's the way to go?
Sarcasm fail on my part. :D
Quote from: guido911 on February 22, 2011, 02:42:20 PM
Sarcasm fail on my part. :D
Me too apparently. Smiley winky face
Quote from: Hoss on February 22, 2011, 02:23:33 PM
I agree, but if the Deputy Chief ORDERS you to do this due to no one volunteering, it's tantamount to someone ordering me to do something at my job. Do it or get written up; possibly terminated. Why should it be any different at the PD?
I think it's one thing to order a captain to order his officers to go to continuing ed, some sort of investigation, or a mob scene but something entirely different on a "community outreach" mission at the behest of a religious organization. I'd say the same thing if it was Holy Family Cathedral or Asbury, it matters not to me that it's the Islamic Center wanting to host this. If officers want to go of their own volition, that's fine, but I don't see that it's the cities place to compel their employees to attend whether it's police officers or trench diggers for the public works department.
I think the Mooselums should come to see them......
Mark this momentus day on you calendar, but Im siding with the FOP and the Captain on this one.
Not that I remotely believe that this was an indoctrination attempt, but it seems that this is a circumstance where there should have been a more sincere effort to seek voluntary participation than to make it compulsory.
Besides the officer's mindset, how would you like to be the host of a "thank you" party with the awkward knowledge that the guests of honor are being threatened with their jobs to attend?
It's another of a long line of bad moves by the deputy chiefs.
Quote from: guido911 on February 22, 2011, 02:34:28 PM
Police: Don't want to go? Call in sick and get a phony doctor's note. You will get the support of many in this forum.
Perhaps doctors could show up at the police station and hand out fake doctors notes.
I'm not as focused on the fact that it is a "religious" thing. Past practices of the department are that appreciation days like this are voluntary, they put the fliers up, mention it as squad meeting, and that's the end of it. Likely, had they handled it like that, there probably would have been several officers that would have gone, it's free food . . . ;D
The only other "appreciation" days I can remember have been at non-church places, LEO Appreciaion Day at Driller's Stadium, the thing KFAQ put on years ago, again though, officers weren't FORCED to attend, and those were also community events, not set up by the people who run them only for officers to attend.
The officers do their job and don't care why religion the people are they are attending to, so I do hate that this is trying to make officers look bad, the issue is the required ORDER to attend. It was an order, there is no doubt about it. It's been handled horribly and I'm sure some people will try to use this to further their cause that the TPD is rascist, that annoys me.
Are the officers being forced to attend on their own time on are they on the clock?
Ahhhh....how cute!....Breadhead tried to make a funny!!
This whole mess is ridiculous. Never should have ordered officers to go, even if on the clock. (Especially if on the clock?)
Sad that the TPD is so horribly biased against the citizens of this city they have taken an oath to protect. Makes me wonder how much enthusiasm they would bring to that part of the job.
TPD was moved to a community policing model which means they are supposed to connect with the neighborhoods they patrol as well as community groups. Many groups, like the Islamic society, hold events like this to thank the police and connect the police and citizenry. This is not the first or last meeting where officers are scheduled to attend.
This is not a community event, it is specifically set up for officers and not the "community" The flier states there will be a prayer service they are welcome to attend, encourages questions regarding women's rights, Koran, etc. It is an open forum regarding Muslims, in a mosque. There is a difference, but its not different if it was the same scenerio in a baptist church.
Officers attend meetings all the time at religious facilities, but they are neighborhood meetings discussing and relating to how they can fight crime in their neighborhood. If this was a forum to improve relations between the muslim community and the police department, it would be different.
I don't think what the Islamic Society is doing is wrong, I think its a great idea, but forcing officers to participate in an event whose purpose is to show what "muslims" do (muslims as a religious sect) if very different and should not be a requirement for officers to attend.
Another example is a church in North Tulsa serves pizza on Friday nights, they have invited officers to join them, anytime . . . officers do that, but it isn't forced, EVER.
I encourage you all to read the actual documents from Captain Field and DC Webster which can be seen on KOTV's story. What actually got me pissed at Webster is his veiled threat that if Fields took his position public is could jeopardize the Honor Guard and what it does (providing services at funerals) . . . guess what? The honor guard is a VOLUNTARY group within the department. He also mentioned provided protection to the Hillsboro protesters, well that is a police function, I don't know of any officer, well, really any person, that believes in what they are selling, but it was their duty to provide a safe environment, which they did. There is no bias here.
And here comes the lawsuit:
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=14087879
Quote from: guido911 on February 24, 2011, 09:30:13 AM
And here comes the lawsuit:
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=14087879
Suing for a buck. What a high roller.
The people of Tulsa need to show how they feel and support for the police department.
Maybe if the Mosque served food more would attend?
Donuts!!
Quote from: Quinton on February 24, 2011, 12:39:39 PM
The people of Tulsa need to show how they feel and support for the police department.
Bahahahaha!
http://movieclips.com/SK6U-fletch-movie-hug-a-cop/
The turnout was around 100 Officers.
What I find funny is that many good Christian Tulsan's look at Muslims with suspicion and even fear. They are OK with more scrutiny of Muslims at airports or even with wiretaps and other law enforcement devices. We actively recruit Muslims to look within their own community and report extremist behavior.
It would seem maintaining close police relationships with an Islamic Center would be along the same line, if security is what we are concern with.
I'm not accusing anyone of being a terrorist. I'm not accusing the officer of being a bigot. I'm simply saying that it makes sense to be to have our law enforcement on good terms with people that are members of a community viewed with suspicion. It can help diffuse the suspicion AND, if some sort of potential problem or fear does arise it may help stop further problems (e.g., if TPD had good relations with the greenwood district maybe, just maybe, the race riots could have been avoided?).
CF,
And don't forget torture! That's always justified against Muslims today.
Heard on radio that 100+ showed up. Does anyone know if it was the coercion or reaction to the Captain?
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 05, 2011, 10:45:37 AM
e.g., if TPD had good relations with the greenwood district maybe, just maybe, the race riots could have been avoided?).
Unfortunately, prejudice overrides rational thinking.
Per TW FB post:
A federal judge ruled this week that Tulsa Police Capt. Paul Fields' lawsuit over his refusal to attend a Law Enforcement Appreciation Day last March at a local mosque may not be expanded to include a First Amendment freedom of speech claim, ruling it would be "futile."
Quote from: Townsend on December 01, 2011, 11:08:47 AM
Per TW FB post:
A federal judge ruled this week that Tulsa Police Capt. Paul Fields' lawsuit over his refusal to attend a Law Enforcement Appreciation Day last March at a local mosque may not be expanded to include a First Amendment freedom of speech claim, ruling it would be "futile."
I will be dealing with a very similar issue in one of my cases soon. Futility issues often surface in the amendment process, which is what appears to have happened. His free exercise and establishment claims are on-going.
The comments of 100 officers in attendence are GREATLY exaggerated.
TW FB post:
QuoteA Tulsa police captain who refused to attend a "Law Enforcement Appreciation Day" at the Islamic Society of Tulsa will receive half of the pay that was withheld while he was suspended and his old assignment back following an arbitrator's ruling last week.
TW FB:
A federal judge ruled in favor of the city of Tulsa on Thursday in a lawsuit filed by a Tulsa police captain who refused to attend a Law Enforcement Appreciation Day at an Islamic mosque.
Quote from: Townsend on December 13, 2012, 04:58:53 PM
TW FB:
A federal judge ruled in favor of the city of Tulsa on Thursday in a lawsuit filed by a Tulsa police captain who refused to attend a Law Enforcement Appreciation Day at an Islamic mosque.
Good Judge!
What's the punishment? Learn to get along with superiors....and read the Koran?
Quote from: Teatownclown on December 13, 2012, 05:07:46 PM
Good Judge!
What's the punishment? Learn to get along with superiors....and read the Koran?
Kind of along the lines of learn Spanish. It will benefit you in the long run.
US Court Affirms Ruling against Tulsa Officerhttp://kwgs.com/post/us-court-affirms-ruling-against-tulsa-officer (http://kwgs.com/post/us-court-affirms-ruling-against-tulsa-officer)
QuoteTULSA, Okla. (AP) — A federal appeals court has upheld a ruling for the city of Tulsa in a civil rights complaint by a police captain who didn't want to attend an event at a mosque.
The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals handed down the decision Thursday in the case of Captain Paul Fields, who was punished for objecting to orders that he attend a law-enforcement appreciation event at the Islamic Society of Tulsa.
The city issued suspensions saying Fields was disobedient and engaged in conduct unbecoming an officer. Fields sued, alleging his rights were violated. But the appeals court says the order did not violate his personal religious beliefs.
Fields' lawyer, Robert Joseph Muise of the American Freedom Law Center, says he disagrees with the ruling and will request a new hearing.