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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 11:28:34 AM

Title: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 11:28:34 AM
This is the worst case of "kick-the-can" I have ever seen.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5298/5454008072_6b7c74395e.jpg)

Now that I've had a chance to read through the tables in the president's budget, I'm astounded.  This whole document is designed for sound-bites.  It reduces spending for exactly one year and then outlays massive increase!

In Table S-1 on his budget, even taken as a function of estimated gross receipts he proposes to keep deficit spending well above 3%.  When reality is injected into "gross receipt expectation" it becomes even more unsustainable.

He has basically said, "Here's something that won't work, but I can make idiots think it will.  You Republicans go out and start cutting things to pay for my shopping spree and it will destroy you." 

It's Catch 22 for the American people.  The president won't take any action, and the congress will be viewed as demonic for taking action.  Therefore no meaningful action will be taken.  The budget, designed to fail, will fail, and another Omnibus Spending bill will be passed to keep government running.  This is politics at the expense of the country.


Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: swake on February 17, 2011, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 11:28:34 AM
This is the worst case of "kick-the-can" I have ever seen.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5298/5454008072_6b7c74395e.jpg)

Now that I've had a chance to read through the tables in the president's budget, I'm astounded.  This whole document is designed for sound-bites.  It reduces spending for exactly one year and then outlays massive increase!

In Table S-1 on his budget, even taken as a function of estimated gross receipts he proposes to keep deficit spending well above 3%.  When reality is injected into "gross receipt expectation" it becomes even more unsustainable.

He has basically said, "Here's something that won't work, but I can make idiots think it will.  You Republicans go out and start cutting things to pay for my shopping spree and it will destroy you." 

It's Catch 22 for the American people.  The president won't take any action, and the congress will be viewed as demonic for taking action.  Therefore no meaningful action will be taken.  The budget, designed to fail, will fail, and another Omnibus Spending bill will be passed to keep government running.  This is politics at the expense of the country.




We need to raise taxes, extend the retirement age and drastically cut defense spending.

You up for that?
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 12:27:53 PM
We need to privatize Social Security for those under a certan age limit.  Raise retirement age.  Cut all entitlements including defense spending.  Allow competition in the healthcare market by opening state borders to competing plans. Flatten the tax rate, eliminating loopholes and concessions. Stop being the world's police force.  Stop spending billions on wars against everything from drugs to salt, to hamburger, to cooking oil. . .

Volly?
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Red Arrow on February 17, 2011, 12:33:11 PM
Quote from: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 12:27:53 PM
We need to privatize Social Security for those under a certan age limit. 

That would last to the next recession/depression.  Maybe privatize with a government guarantee like FDIC etc would work.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: guido911 on February 17, 2011, 12:42:24 PM
Quote from: swake on February 17, 2011, 11:52:35 AM
We need to raise taxes...

On everyone? After all, Obama said everyone is going to have to give and everyone has got to have skin in the game.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 12:45:30 PM
Quote from: Red Arrow on February 17, 2011, 12:33:11 PM
That would last to the next recession/depression.  Maybe privatize with a government guarantee like FDIC etc would work.

That's actually reasonable, because it makes far more sense.  Even if it was in US Treasury notes they would yield far higher than the 1.2-1.8% (corrected for inflation) funny money rate that SS offers for the average two person household.  

Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 12:47:13 PM
Quote from: guido911 on February 17, 2011, 12:42:24 PM
On everyone? After all, Obama said everyone is going to have to give and everyone has got to have skin in the game.

Considering that only 53% of Americans actually pay taxes, I would assume he means that 53%.  ;)
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: guido911 on February 17, 2011, 01:21:43 PM
Quote from: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 12:47:13 PM
Considering that only 53% of Americans actually pay taxes, I would assume he means that 53%.  ;)

But but but, what about sales tax, property tax, and payroll taxes. You know, the real big taxes out there. :o
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2011, 01:24:52 PM
Whew!  Talk about sound bites!  Yeah, 53% get to pay some Federal tax.  And the rest get to pay - disproportionately of course - a share of all the other taxes that is fixed relative to income, but dramatically higher percentage wise than the top 53%.  And who is it that actually pays those "corporate" taxes??  Well, it certainly isn't the corporation.  It is their customer.

But everyone knows that, but it sounds good to the audience on AM radio!




Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: guido911 on February 17, 2011, 01:31:36 PM
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2011, 01:24:52 PM
Yeah, 53% get to pay some all Federal tax.


Fixed that one for ya.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: swake on February 17, 2011, 01:32:39 PM
Quote from: guido911 on February 17, 2011, 12:42:24 PM
On everyone? After all, Obama said everyone is going to have to give and everyone has got to have skin in the game.

I don't know about everyone, but it certainly should be raised on most people. I was against the 2% lowering of payroll tax last year.

I also think it's ridiculous that almost half of American's don't pay income tax. And it's also stupid that most corporations don't pay taxes and that the highest income Americans have lower effective tax rates than the middle/upper middle class who do play taxes.

And yes, I am willing to personally pay more. But I want to have better schools, more research money, better roads and less money into being the worlds cop. A lot less money into that.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: guido911 on February 17, 2011, 01:45:46 PM
Quote from: swake on February 17, 2011, 01:32:39 PM
I also think it's ridiculous that almost half of American's don't pay income tax.

Can't argue with you on that. The rest, eh. Ideological differences which is okay with me.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 01:55:07 PM
See. . .It's not so hard for us to get closer to agreement. 

I want better schools too.  The primary problem I see in the schools is accountability.  They compete against no one, therefore they have no reason to innovate or improve above whatever baseline is set for them by the state.

I want a lot of things that the state is doing poorly to be done better, or at least meet public expectation.  Again, without accountability and repercussion, there is no quality.  We have forced the state to take on aspects of our lives that we don't trust the private sector to handle.  As a result the state has shown us how to do a far worse job.  As we continue to hand over our freedoms to the state we continue to be dismayed by their performance.  It's the definition of insanity.  We keep doing it expecting a different result.

Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: swake on February 17, 2011, 02:50:12 PM
Quote from: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 01:55:07 PM
See. . .It's not so hard for us to get closer to agreement. 

I want better schools too.  The primary problem I see in the schools is accountability.  They compete against no one, therefore they have no reason to innovate or improve above whatever baseline is set for them by the state.

I want a lot of things that the state is doing poorly to be done better, or at least meet public expectation.  Again, without accountability and repercussion, there is no quality.  We have forced the state to take on aspects of our lives that we don't trust the private sector to handle.  As a result the state has shown us how to do a far worse job.  As we continue to hand over our freedoms to the state we continue to be dismayed by their performance.  It's the definition of insanity.  We keep doing it expecting a different result.





We are closer than you think, I'm actually in favor of competition. I want increased teacher standards, increased pay, year round school and vouchers. It's not that I think that current teachers deserve more money, though many do, the idea is that I want a better pool of applicants for teacher positions. If we paid a better living wage to teachers than more capable people on average would become teachers. We need to reward the teachers doing a great job today, get rid of the dead weight and then open up teaching as a career to a much larger segment of the working population with increased pay. Lower class size would be nice, but the real key is finding really great teachers.

Gasp, don't talk to me about parenting, there's so little that we can do to force people to be good parents, other than truancy laws and the like. But we should not sentence kids to poverty or crime just because their parents suck. If the adults that child spends time with at home are terrible people then those kids need teachers to be the positive adults in their lives even more than the average kid.

I think the long term wealth, security and success of the United States as a nation is dependent on our schools, universities and research labs. It's not in fighter jets and not in low taxes. We must maintain our edge over the rest of the world with a highly educated workforce and with innovations in science and technology. And we need to be better education in the right areas too, no offense Guid, but we need many fewer lawyers and a lot more engineers, medical researchers and physicists.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: swake on February 17, 2011, 02:50:12 PM


We are closer than you think, I'm actually in favor of competition. I want increased teacher standards, increased pay, year round school and vouchers. It's not that I think that current teachers deserve more money, though many do, the idea is that I want a better pool of applicants for teacher positions. If we paid a better living wage to teachers than more capable people on average would become teachers. We need to reward the teachers doing a great job today, get rid of the dead weight and then open up teaching as a career to a much larger segment of the working population with increased pay. Lower class size would be nice, but the real key is finding really great teachers.

Gasp, don't talk to me about parenting, there's so little that we can do to force people to be good parents, other than truancy laws and the like. But we should not sentence kids to poverty or crime just because their parents suck. If the adults that child spends time with at home are terrible people then those kids need teachers to be the positive adults in their lives even more than the average kid.

I think the long term wealth, security and success of the United States as a nation is dependent on our schools, universities and research labs. It's not in fighter jets and not in low taxes. We must maintain our edge over the rest of the world with a highly educated workforce and with innovations in science and technology. And we need to be better education in the right areas too, no offense Guid, but we need many fewer lawyers and a lot more engineers, medical researchers and physicists.

(http://static.technorati.com/10/09/18/18531/1275231627885741326heart-clipart-md.png)

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbayah

Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Conan71 on February 17, 2011, 03:44:28 PM
Hahahaha! Well played, I was scrolling, scrolling scrolling waiting to add: "+1, Kumbaya"

Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Red Arrow on February 17, 2011, 05:58:22 PM
Quote from: Gaspar on February 17, 2011, 01:55:07 PM
As we continue to hand over our freedoms to the state we continue to be dismayed by their performance.  It's the definition of insanity.  We keep doing it expecting a different result.

You've been using MicroSoft products too long.  Leads to bad habits/expectations.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2011, 09:16:18 PM
Close, but no cigar.  If it was all the income tax, then no corporation would be paying any.  And while there are a minority who do, the actual tax IS paid by that 47%.  But then simple mathematics is always the hardest....

Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Red Arrow on February 17, 2011, 09:19:07 PM
There are 102 kinds of people.
Those who understand and those that don't.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Conan71 on February 17, 2011, 09:21:50 PM
Quote from: Red Arrow on February 17, 2011, 05:58:22 PM
You've been using MicroSoft products too long.  Leads to bad habits/expectations.

Bahahahaha!

Imagine my elation when I came back to my office with my new Mac.  Imagine my dismay when I went to register my Office For Mac and it came back that MS's server was down.  I thought to myself "They are still in charge to some degree, damn it!"
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Breadburner on February 18, 2011, 08:48:29 AM
Talk about a "Sputinik" moment....Obama's budget=Sputnik......
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Conan71 on February 18, 2011, 08:51:07 AM
Quote from: Breadburner on February 18, 2011, 08:48:29 AM
Talk about a "Sputinik" moment....Obama's budget=Sputnik......

Titanic is more like it.
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Breadburner on February 18, 2011, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Conan71 on February 18, 2011, 08:51:07 AM
Titanic is more like it.

Its going up not down..... ;D
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Gaspar on February 18, 2011, 10:12:54 AM
Quote from: Red Arrow on February 17, 2011, 09:19:07 PM
There are 102 kinds of people.
Those who understand and those that don't.

+1
Title: Re: President Obama's Budget
Post by: Gaspar on February 18, 2011, 10:14:04 AM
Quote from: Breadburner on February 18, 2011, 08:48:29 AM
Talk about a "Sputinik" moment....Obama's budget=Sputnik......

He'll shrug it off.  After all, he's not really a numbers guy anyway.