Was that really necessary?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/04/132646800/enterprise-captains-career-likely-sunk-due-to-videos?sc=fb&cc=fp (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/04/132646800/enterprise-captains-career-likely-sunk-due-to-videos?sc=fb&cc=fp)
Quote from: Townsend on January 04, 2011, 09:49:23 AM
Was that really necessary?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/04/132646800/enterprise-captains-career-likely-sunk-due-to-videos?sc=fb&cc=fp (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/04/132646800/enterprise-captains-career-likely-sunk-due-to-videos?sc=fb&cc=fp)
Conduct unbecoming? I'm not sure of the content, but lesser offenses have lost commands before. And when you are the skipper of a nuclear aircraft carrier, you tend to be held to a higher standard.
Quote from: Hoss on January 04, 2011, 10:00:54 AM
Conduct unbecoming? I'm not sure of the content, but lesser offenses have lost commands before. And when you are the skipper of a nuclear aircraft carrier, you tend to be held to a higher standard.
Well trained, liked, talented. It offended but didn't cause loss of life or endanger anyone that I'm aware of.
Someone reacted harshly to pressure from above.
Captain of the Enterprise engaging in making of porno and sexual assault films...
Definitely overreaction....
Yeah, right.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 04, 2011, 01:06:52 PM
Captain of the Enterprise engaging in making of porno and sexual assault films...
Definitely overreaction....
Yeah, right.
QuoteIn case you're just catching up on this story, we reported yesterday on the videos Honors made — and showed to the 6,000 or so sailors and Marines aboard the Enterprise — several years ago when he was the aircraft carrier's second-in-command. Meant to be entertaining, they included anti-gay slurs, simulated masturbation, the simulated eating of human excrement, a discussion of profanity and sexually-themed shower scenes
Captain at the time? No.
Porno? Maybe
Sexual Assault? Didn't see that part. What've you seen?
Quote from: Townsend on January 04, 2011, 01:23:48 PM
Captain at the time? No.
Porno? Maybe
Sexual Assault? Didn't see that part. What've you seen?
There is no workplace where that would be acceptable. That would lead to termination everywhere. It's not just that he did it, but he did with people that worked for him in his workplace. In any job a manager that does something like that is fired.
It's even less acceptable in the military for someone responsible for almost 6000 lives. It's shows very poor judgement for someone that really needs excellent judgement.
It might show poor judgement in our world, but people keep making the mistake believing that the military is or should be like the normal job world and it simply is not. That's also partly a commentary on DADT. I'm curious how many of the activists making the biggest stink on DADT are planning on enlisting or if it's simply sticking their thumb in the eye of an old institution.
For those who are grossly offended by Capt. Honor's actions, they must not be familiar with shellbacking nor many other on-board shenanigans which have gone on in the world's navies for centuries. Google shellbacking for a start and I think one can get an idea what I'm talking about. It's mostly stress relief. Imagine yourself cooped up on a ship for 6 months or so in a military environment. Most of us can't imagine that and I think that's part of the mis-placed outrage. Had there been no media furor over this, Capt. Honor would still be commanding the Enterprise.
Quote from: swake on January 04, 2011, 01:35:24 PM
There is no workplace where that would be acceptable. That would lead to termination everywhere. It's not just that he did it, but he did with people that worked for him in his workplace. In any job a manager that does something like that is fired.
It's even less acceptable in the military for someone responsible for almost 6000 lives. It's shows very poor judgement for someone that really needs excellent judgement.
Generally I'd agree with you 100%. What was found was crude and offensive.
I've never served on a boat that size and don't know if this is a common occurance.
It blows my mind that a second in command would take part, yes. Was it worth a dismissal? I don't know.
I was surprised this action was taken without any other course attempted.
There were persons high up in government allowed to stay in office after various acts recently. It's not an excuse, just an observation.
This has been up for hours and no Riker facepalm yet?
Quote from: Trogdor on January 04, 2011, 02:40:30 PM
This has been up for hours and no Riker facepalm yet?
Please, feel free.
In fact, here's Jesus.
(http://demotivatorsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/jesus-facepalm-facepalm-jesus-epic-demotivational-poster-1218659828.jpg)
Was he removed for his actions or because the general populous got wind of it?
General populous, or Admiral Populous.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 04, 2011, 03:00:39 PM
General populous, or Admiral Populous.
24 hour Media Populous.
Quote from: Townsend on January 04, 2011, 03:03:39 PM
24 hour Media Populous.
No doubt they had to react to public outrage. I'm pretty sure without it being leaked to the media this would have remained an "internal matter".
Quote from: Townsend on January 04, 2011, 02:16:48 PM
Generally I'd agree with you 100%. What was found was crude and offensive.
I've never served on a boat that size and don't know if this is a common occurance.
It blows my mind that a second in command would take part, yes. Was it worth a dismissal? I don't know.
I was surprised this action was taken without any other course attempted.
There were persons high up in government allowed to stay in office after various acts recently. It's not an excuse, just an observation.
But, he also hasn't been dismissed, or fired, or whatever you want to call it. He's been removed from his command position. He's not been kicked out of the military.
Quote from: swake on January 04, 2011, 03:07:39 PM
But, he also hasn't been dismissed, or fired, or whatever you want to call it. He's been removed from his command position. He's not been kicked out of the military.
As I heard it worded, he's no longer in line for advancement which pretty well means his career is over.
He foobared up......
Just had a spirited discussion about this in our office and I guess . . . it's hard to see how this kind of behavior would square in any kind of modern organization: government, corporate, nonprofit, etc. Managers of a group of nearly 6000 people just can't do stuff like that these days. I know that makes some people bristle but it's not just American social mores in general that dictate managerial conduct -- and that say how stupid that behavior was. It's also just managerial theory, the science of managing people.
Don't get me wrong; things like this happen in corporate, government, nonprofit and military life all the time; managers making Michael Scott-level boners in misguided attempts to liven things up, or dispense wisdom, or help the team blow off steam or whatever. It still doesn't make it right, and we're in a time that public scrutiny is such that blunders of this level, when they see the light of day, just can't stand. The change, IMO, isn't just 'political correctness,' it's a change in how we view the effective management of organizations.
Quote from: Trogdor on January 04, 2011, 02:40:30 PM
This has been up for hours and no Riker facepalm yet?
The line must be drawn here! This Far! No further!
Townsend,
Assault may be a little harsh - after all, the girls in the shower probably volunteered without too much coercion.
All,
Ho hum on the video. And that may be the biggest problem I can see with the whole thing - that a man commanding one of our top line carriers doesn't have any more/better imagination than that. If he ain't gonna do that video right, he shouldn't be doing it at all. He has billions of dollars worth of props there and that's the best he can do??? 6th grade humor. Oh, well, I guess that is what we can expect from a public school education today???
I do like Starship music, though.
I guess "don't ask, don't tell" really is pretty much irrelevant even before Congress' action last month. And the outright plagiarism of John Waters is just trite! (Pink Flamingoes)
So in reality a group of junior officers in 2006 and 2007 published videos no worse than SNL's "dick in a box" (which won an emmy, by the way) and broadcast them to 6,000 people. Everyone on the ship, and even people in higher levels of command saw the videos and deemed them "all in good fun"
FOUR YEARS LATER someone says "hey, that guy in the video is captain of the ship" and NOW suddenly the Navy has a problem with it.
The whole group should've been reprimanded four years ago, if anything. Taking away his command now says nothing other than the military cares more about public opinion and press than doing it's job.
Actually it shows that the top line officers are more interested in amusing themselves with 6th grade toilet humor than doing their jobs.
As far as "worse" - not exactly sure what you mean, but I have never seen an SNL skit that was anywhere near as bad as that film. And what I mean by bad, is poor quality, stupid scripting, lousy production work; not the "moral bad". Still appalled by the lack of overall quality given the resources available - we gave them billions worth of tools/toys for crying out loud!! And that's the best we get for the money?????
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 05, 2011, 08:12:21 AM
Actually it shows that the top line officers are more interested in amusing themselves with 6th grade toilet humor than doing their jobs.
As far as "worse" - not exactly sure what you mean, but I have never seen an SNL skit that was anywhere near as bad as that film. And what I mean by bad, is poor quality, stupid scripting, lousy production work; not the "moral bad". Still appalled by the lack of overall quality given the resources available - we gave them billions worth of tools/toys for crying out loud!! And that's the best we get for the money?????
By worse I meant content, not production value.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on January 05, 2011, 08:12:21 AM
but I have never seen an SNL skit that was anywhere near as bad as that film.
Stuart Smalley
Quote from: sgrizzle on January 05, 2011, 06:54:56 AM
So in reality a group of junior officers in 2006 and 2007 published videos no worse than SNL's "dick in a box" (which won an emmy, by the way) and broadcast them to 6,000 people. Everyone on the ship, and even people in higher levels of command saw the videos and deemed them "all in good fun"
FOUR YEARS LATER someone says "hey, that guy in the video is captain of the ship" and NOW suddenly the Navy has a problem with it.
The whole group should've been reprimanded four years ago, if anything. Taking away his command now says nothing other than the military cares more about public opinion and press than doing it's job.
The XO of an aircraft carrier is NOT a junior officer