Per the article in today's TW:
Upcoming is the renovation of River West Festival Park, the longtime home of Oktoberfest. Officials are scheduled to break ground on the newly designed park following Oktoberfest 2011.
I don't have any renderings but I do know it's being designed by LandPlan Consultants, the Tulsa-based landscape architecture firm that also designed the QuikTrip park at 41st & Riverside and the new trails in Riverparks. As renderings/plans become available we can discuss them here.
I'd like to see the amphitheatre renovated and expanded, and the 'floating stage' removed. From what I've heard the Corps is planning on filling in the cove which is a good thing. If they aren't going to end filling it in at least tear out the jetty so that the natural flow of the water can get back there and prevent trash/debris from getting stuck. While it isn't part of this redesign, it would be amazing to see the Mid-Continent concrete plant to the south acquired by the city to double the size of the park.
Dual trails like what they have built on the east bank will be built on the west bank from the pedestrian bridge to Festival Park. It would be nice to see a boardwalk of some kind closer to the river, like what they have done at this new riverfront park in Washington DC:
(http://jdland.com/dc/images/other/yards-park-100827-182.JPG)
(http://jdland.com/dc/images/other/yards-park-100827-142.JPG)
(http://jdland.com/dc/images/other/yards-park-100827-131.JPG)
and better landscaping like this closer to the water around the amphitheatre:
(http://jdland.com/dc/images/other/yards-park-100827-101.JPG)
(http://jdland.com/dc/images/other/yards-park-100827-218.JPG)
and a new boathouse for TU and Tulsa Rowing Club, like what they have proposed but larger and with big east-facing windows (especially if they could land a corporate sponsor):
(http://www.tulsarowingclub.org/fundraising/ELEV8.5x11_web.jpg)
(http://www.tulsarowingclub.org/fundraising/SITE8.5x11_web.jpg)
There is a lot of potential for this to be one of Tulsa's best parks in the future!
Not to compare ourselves to OKC but this is their newest boathouse under construction, very contemporary:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img265/5159/1852f.jpg)
and their plan for Boathouse Row with Chesapeake, OCU, UCO, and OU all having boathouses next to each other:
(http://www.pc78.com/images/okctalk/3.jpg)
Not saying we should replicate this but it is a cool plan and a more contemporary design would be nice for our boathouse, IMO. Also Festival Park could be designed around the boathouse and amphitheatre better than it is now.
Satan's Boathouse
TRC's boathouse was expanded to three bays this last winter, unfortunately cosmetic upgrades like the 2004 rendering you have found was not possible at this time. TU left the west bank several years back after they completed their new boat house out past Catoosa on Rte. 66 adjacent to the navigation channel. No amount of upgrades will bring TU back to the Arkansas, IMO as the varying river levels play hell with getting out on the water. There's also pretty good buffering from the wind on the navigation channel vs. the Arkansas.
To give you an idea of the difference in cost basis, the TRC expansion with a third bay was brought in for under $100K. Chesapeake in OKC was built for between $3.2 and $3.6mm with a nice donation from Chesapeake Energy. The new Devon boathouse is reputed to be in the $10mm range and I believe this is the house the US Rowing training center will occupy along with OCU.
Chesapeake gave UCO $3.5mm plus an anonymous donor gave $500K earlier this year for one called the CHK/Central Boathouse which will be going in. OU was planning a new boathouse on the lower part of the river, but I've not heard what their recent plans are. They have been using the Exchange Boathouse on the upper lock of the Okla. River the last couple of years.
In order to make this happen, OKC had several things in it's favor: three universities with rowing programs, a stable water level, and relatively benign current in addition to some great corporate sponsors. We had some people working on talking to SEM before they imploded. It would have been a great fit. As it is, the TRC has some very generous donors, but no one has jumped in with a multi-million dollar donation all at once. As of now the TRC is working to add new equipment now that the expansion is complete there.
It's been bantered about that TRC could move to Jenks once a low water dam is put in there, but with varying discharges from the Corps, I still don't see where there would be more stable water level downstream.
Interesting. A larger redesign of the park that includes the Mid-Con plant could include an expansion of the boathouse. I would think the river and skyline views alone would make it desirable for events in addition to housing the rowing club. I'm interested to see what the plans are for the cove/lagoon. If they filled this in the banks would make a good place for a boardwalk/trail that comes right up to the water with the new dual trail going around the 'old' cove.
Mid-Con is incredibly stupid money regardless of the existing economic conditions. The price per acre is primo downtown LA, NYC, or Vegas priced or even higher. That was one of my biggest objections to the river tax debacle. Unknown people being further enriched by commoners. If it was a good investment, someone would have snapped it up.
Nice pictures, with interesting concepts, especially the wave attenuation blocks on the sea wall!
A few points.
Dewberry Design Group was selected by the City and River Parks for design of the West bank festival park, LandPlan is not part of that project team.
The CORPS has never said a word about filling in the lagoon (why would they it is a local feature and not part of their jurisdiction) but there is no argument in the need to improve the water quality in that locale.
TU's rowing program moved to the navigation channel (which provides an interesting venue with it's own challenges) and as stated previously I also don't expect them to return as in addition to flow/launching issues which will be partially mitigated by the planned improvements on of the main issues to collegiate rowing is that Zink provides too short of a venue. With that said I'm really happy the Tulsa Rowing Club is still active on Zink and hopefully will continue to expand their excellent programs.
Quote from: SXSW on August 31, 2010, 04:41:56 PM
Interesting. A larger redesign of the park that includes the Mid-Con plant could include an expansion of the boathouse. I would think the river and skyline views alone would make it desirable for events in addition to housing the rowing club. I'm interested to see what the plans are for the cove/lagoon. If they filled this in the banks would make a good place for a boardwalk/trail that comes right up to the water with the new dual trail going around the 'old' cove.
I've never understood why so much prime river real estate has been given over to refineries, general industry, and subsidized housing. You'd think the Arkansas would be lined with apartment complexes like Westport and other upperscale housing stock. Has Tulsa essentially ceded the west bank of the river to whatever wants to be there?
BTW, SXSW, you have some of the best image searching skills I've yet seen. Kudos for the visuals!
Quote from: we vs us on September 01, 2010, 09:36:01 AM
I've never understood why so much prime river real estate has been given over to refineries, general industry, and subsidized housing. You'd think the Arkansas would be lined with apartment complexes like Westport and other upperscale housing stock. Has Tulsa essentially ceded the west bank of the river to whatever wants to be there?
BTW, SXSW, you have some of the best image searching skills I've yet seen. Kudos for the visuals!
Nothing has been given over; they own it and have for a very long time.
In the history of Tulsa the refineries have essentially been there since dirt (unverified, but I have been told that at one time there were 5 refineries which morphed into what we have now). Overall, the west side of the river became the industrial part of Tulsa to support the oil industry further southwest (easier to cross the river with people than heavy goods at that time) Additionally, at that time in history rivers everywhere were industrial dumping grounds weather for runoff, discharges or burial of debris in low areas that were unusable for anything else.
Quote from: Vision 2025 on September 01, 2010, 09:52:59 AM
Nothing has been given over; they own it and have for a very long time.
In the history of Tulsa the refineries have essentially been there since dirt (unverified, but I have been told that at one time there were 5 refineries which morphed into what we have now). Overall, the west side of the river became the industrial part of Tulsa to support the oil industry further southwest (easier to cross the river with people than heavy goods at that time) Additionally, at that time in history rivers everywhere were industrial dumping grounds weather for runoff, discharges or burial of debris in low areas that were unusable for anything else.
Also the refineries were built there since the railyard was there. In Bob Gregory's book "Oil In Oklahoma" he stated that if the railyard was in Sand Springs instead of Tulsa the cities would have developed much differently since the fields were in that area and west of there.
Quote from: dbacks fan on September 01, 2010, 10:28:49 AM
Also the refineries were built there since the railyard was there. In Bob Gregory's book "Oil In Oklahoma" he stated that if the railyard was in Sand Springs instead of Tulsa the cities would have developed much differently since the fields were in that area and west of there.
Likely very true and that is an excellent book.
Quote from: Vision 2025 on September 01, 2010, 08:37:45 AM
Nice pictures, with interesting concepts, especially the wave attenuation blocks on the sea wall!
A few points.
Dewberry Design Group was selected by the City and River Parks for design of the West bank festival park, LandPlan is not part of that project team.
The CORPS has never said a word about filling in the lagoon (why would they it is a local feature and not part of their jurisdiction) but there is no argument in the need to improve the water quality in that locale.
TU's rowing program moved to the navigation channel (which provides an interesting venue with it's own challenges) and as stated previously I also don't expect them to return as in addition to flow/launching issues which will be partially mitigated by the planned improvements on of the main issues to collegiate rowing is that Zink provides too short of a venue. With that said I'm really happy the Tulsa Rowing Club is still active on Zink and hopefully will continue to expand their excellent programs.
I thought I had seen LandPlan was doing the design work, maybe that was just the trails. Too bad, they do great work though I'm sure Dewberry will do a fine job. Do you have access to any of their renderings or are they still working on the design? I really like what they have done with the Anacostia River Park in DC and think something similar that provides more direct access to the water would be really cool at Festival Park. Just look at what a huge hit Quiktrip Park has been at 41st. Imagine something similar with the playgrounds and water features but on a much larger scale with better river and skyline views. I think it would rival Woodward and LaFortune as one of the city's most used parks and would be a great setting for more concerts and festivals.
Another good model, Zilker Park in Austin
(http://www.therealestateblogster.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/zilker.jpg)
Brooklyn Bridge Park in NYC
(http://www.brooklynpaper.com/assets/photos/31/27/31_27_bridgeparkrendering_i.jpg)
Olympic Sculpture Park in Seattle
(http://catherine-dennis.com/photo/2003514071.jpg)
and I really like the design of the retaining walls at this park in Ohio
(http://www.rrcity.com/rec/DSC04098.JPG)
I noticed this weekend that the new dual west bank river trail appears to be finished between the 21st Street bridge and the boathouse. The new trail is great, but then it stops. Is the plan still to continue it all the way to the SW Blvd bridge? I noticed the section between the Pedestrian Bridge and 21st Street bridge is still under construction.
I'm still hoping the Mid-Con plant can be incorporated into a larger River West Festival Park with an expanded 'natural' amphitheatre similar to Auditorium Shores in Austin that gently slopes toward river. The capacity for such an amphiteatre would be much larger than the current one that is rarely used and needs to be torn down. Meandering paths, gardens, sand volleyball pits, and an enlarged boathouse that offers scull and kayak rentals would be nice additions, and would make Festival Park more of a draw outside of festivals like Oktoberfest.
(http://www.1155bartonsprings.com/subpage/images/townlakepark.jpg)
(http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00005bz3IUqTqyg/s)
Quote from: SXSW on January 30, 2011, 04:46:56 PM
I noticed this weekend that the new dual west bank river trail appears to be finished between the 21st Street bridge and the boathouse. The new trail is great, but then it stops. Is the plan still to continue it all the way to the SW Blvd bridge? I noticed the section between the Pedestrian Bridge and 21st Street bridge is still under construction.
I'm still hoping the Mid-Con plant can be incorporated into a larger River West Festival Park with an expanded 'natural' amphitheatre similar to Auditorium Shores in Austin that gently slopes toward river. The capacity for such an amphiteatre would be much larger than the current one that is rarely used and needs to be torn down. Meandering paths, gardens, sand volleyball pits, and an enlarged boathouse that offers scull and kayak rentals would be nice additions, and would make Festival Park more of a draw outside of festivals like Oktoberfest.
(http://www.1155bartonsprings.com/subpage/images/townlakepark.jpg)
(http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00005bz3IUqTqyg/s)
SXSW- I think your talent and vision is being wasted on your current occupation. ;) They need someone like you at INCOG where you might actually be able to affect innovative development.
Thanks Conan. I would love to be on a citizens committee for INCOG, if such a committee existed. I am on the Tulsa Parks master plan committee.. I'm just worried that "Arkansas River Development" to some means turning the Mid-Con plant into apartments and retail. I really don't want to see that happen because I think it holds more value to Tulsa as a park/festival space. Redevelop Westport into higher density apartments/condos first. River development does not mean creating Riverwalk Crossing in Tulsa, it's building on our existing assets like River Parks and specifically Festival Park which could be a fantastic riverfront park rivaling anything in other cities. I'm serious, with the view and the right mix of amenities like a new amphitheatre and boathouse and a better overall park design Festival Park could be up there with riverfront parks in Austin, Pittsburgh, Washington, NYC..
Quote from: SXSW on January 31, 2011, 09:49:47 AM
Thanks Conan. I would love to be on a citizens committee for INCOG, if such a committee existed. I am on the Tulsa Parks master plan committee.. I'm just worried that "Arkansas River Development" to some means turning the Mid-Con plant into apartments and retail. I really don't want to see that happen because I think it holds more value to Tulsa as a park/festival space. Redevelop Westport into higher density apartments/condos first. River development does not mean creating Riverwalk Crossing in Tulsa, it's building on our existing assets like River Parks and specifically Festival Park which could be a fantastic riverfront park rivaling anything in other cities. I'm serious, with the view and the right mix of amenities like a new amphitheatre and boathouse and a better overall park design Festival Park could be up there with riverfront parks in Austin, Pittsburgh, Washington, NYC..
**Standing ovation**
Just say "NO" to crappy commercial dryvit dreck on the river banks!
I would like to see a design competition for the redesign of Festival Park (including the Mid-Con plant) and a redevelopment of Westport. Something similar to what they have done in Minneapolis:
http://minneapolisriverfrontdesigncompetition.com/ (http://minneapolisriverfrontdesigncompetition.com/)
I found an article from Urban Tulsa that is an interesting read. It is from November 2006 and related to The Channels, but found this nugget regarding the Mid-Con plant and Westport apartments:
On Wed., Nov. 1, the William K. Warren Medical Research Center announced it had signed (more than one year ago) $65 million worth of purchase options for the sites of the Westport on the River Apartments and the Mid-Continent Concrete Co to secure land for the project.
If voters were to approve the $600 million dollars in public funding for the project, the options will be transferred to a public trust to oversee development and revenue for the project.
The agreement to acquire the apartment complex property was signed a year ago but included a confidentiality clause to prevent adverse financial impact on the rental returns of the property.
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A15254 (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A15254)
I wonder if this arrangement could be renewed, and would the Warren's still be interested without The Channels?
Quote from: SXSW on January 31, 2011, 01:40:28 PM
I would like to see a design competition for the redesign of Festival Park (including the Mid-Con plant) and a redevelopment of Westport. Something similar to what they have done in Minneapolis:
http://minneapolisriverfrontdesigncompetition.com/ (http://minneapolisriverfrontdesigncompetition.com/)
I found an article from Urban Tulsa that is an interesting read. It is from November 2006 and related to The Channels, but found this nugget regarding the Mid-Con plant and Westport apartments:
On Wed., Nov. 1, the William K. Warren Medical Research Center announced it had signed (more than one year ago) $65 million worth of purchase options for the sites of the Westport on the River Apartments and the Mid-Continent Concrete Co to secure land for the project.
If voters were to approve the $600 million dollars in public funding for the project, the options will be transferred to a public trust to oversee development and revenue for the project.
The agreement to acquire the apartment complex property was signed a year ago but included a confidentiality clause to prevent adverse financial impact on the rental returns of the property.
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A15254 (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A15254)
I wonder if this arrangement could be renewed, and would the Warren's still be interested without The Channels?
Something the area has going for it is a teaching hospital and medical school within walking and biking distance, plus the hip factor of living on the river with a fantastic view of downtown. I have no idea what it would take to get the Warrens or someone else interested again who would be willing to do it without another big tax package. There simply isn't support for it. Maybe when V-2025 runs out in 2017 (I think that's right) there could be a Vision 2035 package or something like that and put Tulsa's focus on the river while giving other communities what they want at the top of their priority lists. That's why V-2025 passed as a county-wide tax and the '07 river tax died.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 31, 2011, 02:50:01 PM
That's why the '07 river tax died.
And no explanation that it wasn't "the channels".
That and ultra-donkey ad campaign. "do it for the children"...
Quote from: Conan71 on January 31, 2011, 02:50:01 PM
Something the area has going for it is a teaching hospital and medical school within walking and biking distance, plus the hip factor of living on the river with a fantastic view of downtown. I have no idea what it would take to get the Warrens or someone else interested again who would be willing to do it without another big tax package. There simply isn't support for it. Maybe when V-2025 runs out in 2017 (I think that's right) there could be a Vision 2035 package or something like that and put Tulsa's focus on the river while giving other communities what they want at the top of their priority lists. That's why V-2025 passed as a county-wide tax and the '07 river tax died.
2016 is the year the tax is up for an extension. Such proposals would hopefully be included. Now is the time to start the discussion and planning. If we can't get world-reknown master planners like Minneapolis to get involved in a design competition maybe OU/OSU would be interested? I would think the Kaiser Foundation also would want to be involved in some capacity..
If there is indeed a redevelopment of Westport I would hope any new buildings would be taller and closer to the river. Something modern like this proposal in Milwaukee but on a smaller-scale:
(http://www.mandelgroup.com/data/condos/northend_pic1_big1.jpg)
(http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/FINAL-3-655x364.jpg)
Speaking of Milwaukee, I'm so impressed by all the contemporary design going up there I'm planning a trip this summer to check it out and take pictures. Really great stuff.
Geesh, I wish we had more modern stuff going in here, but Tulsa's economy is so stagnant and the urban living thing still seems to be slooooow moving here. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that the new development across from the BOK will be modern. Architecturally its like Tulsa lost the last decade. Thank goodness for the BOK Center thats pretty much the only contemporary structure of note in the city that I can think of. So yes, would love to see something very modern along the river, or anywhere for that matter lol.
Quote from: TheArtist on February 01, 2011, 10:14:35 AM
Geesh, I wish we had more modern stuff going in here, but Tulsa's economy is so stagnant and the urban living thing still seems to be slooooow moving here. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that the new development across from the BOK will be modern. Architecturally its like Tulsa lost the last decade. Thank goodness for the BOK Center thats pretty much the only contemporary structure of note in the city that I can think of. So yes, would love to see something very modern along the river, or anywhere for that matter lol.
Lots of the infill north of Cherry Street is contemporary; some of it is really good and some of it, well, isn't. There are also several nice contemporary homes in midtown constructed in the past 5 years, 30th & Utica and 29th & Peoria to name a few. Some of the new development in Brookside such as Center One (aka the white district) and the townhomes behind Starbucks are pretty good examples of contemporary, urban design. The area around 3rd & Kenosha downtown also has some nice examples. But I agree there could be much more and hopefully that is what we will see as development picks up. The west bank could be a great place to showcase modern design.
Quote from: SXSW on February 01, 2011, 12:04:08 PM
Lots of the infill north of Cherry Street is contemporary; some of it is really good and some of it, well, isn't. There are also several nice contemporary homes in midtown constructed in the past 5 years, 30th & Utica and 29th & Peoria to name a few. Some of the new development in Brookside such as Center One (aka the white district) and the townhomes behind Starbucks are pretty good examples of contemporary, urban design. The area around 3rd & Kenosha downtown also has some nice examples. But I agree there could be much more and hopefully that is what we will see as development picks up. The west bank could be a great place to showcase modern design.
I wonder if any of the new stuff will be around in about 70 or so years to save like we are trying to do with our Deco buildings. I kind of doubt it.
This is what I would like to see done with Festival Park and the Mid-Con property...feel free to add or comment:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/riverfestival.jpg)
Amphitheatre would be earth-terraced like Auditorium Shores in Austin, with the current amphitheatre/stage torn down:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_v1AgOv7bJPg/S6mubP3MgMI/AAAAAAAABSY/ZaZ9Ld6fCQ0/BA-5944.jpg)
The Great Lawn would be an open space for use by festivals and soccer/frisbee/etc., similar to Commons Park in Denver (love this pic btw, you can't engineer where people walk!):
(http://www.denverinfill.com/images/blog/2008-04/2008-04-12_sign2.jpg)
The boathouse could be something like what they have been building in OKC, on the bluff by the current boathouse next to the river access ramp:
(http://www.chi-athenaeum.org/intarch/2009/chesapeakeboathouse56/2.jpg)
We gotta get you a personalized SimCity game... SimTulsa.
While that would be lovely, the $50mm or whatever the owners want for the concrete plant won't fly easily. The City and Riverparks have no stake in the boathouse now other than the ground lease. All improvements TRC has done are via private donations and if it weren't for a handful of very generous donors over the years, there would be no TRC. The kind of facilities they built in OKC take a great corporate patron. Interestingly, one of the more senior members of the boathouse has worked as an executive under the Kaiser umbrella for years, yet none of the Kaiser interests or trusts has ever made a significant donation to TRC that I'm personally aware of. That would be my best bet for a multi-million dollar donor, but if it's not happened in the past 20 years, I don't foresee it now.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 14, 2011, 02:19:52 PM
Interestingly, one of the more senior members of the boathouse has worked as an executive under the Kaiser umbrella for years, yet none of the Kaiser interests or trusts has ever made a significant donation to TRC that I'm personally aware of. That would be my best bet for a multi-million dollar donor, but if it's not happened in the past 20 years, I don't foresee it now.
The Kaiser-funded RiverParks and Turkey Mtn improvements didn't happen until the past few years. Now that Turkey Mtn and the new dual trails are almost complete the foundation is looking at redevelopment of the Crow Creek apartments and Blair property, both by the river. Their main initiatives seem to be the river and Brady District projects (Brady Green, Visual Arts Center, streetscaping). I'm hoping that their next signature project is the west bank and it's preserved as an urban, waterfront festival park before it's turned into Riverwalk Crossing-Tulsa...
Quote from: SXSW on February 14, 2011, 01:46:08 PM
This is what I would like to see done with Festival Park and the Mid-Con property...feel free to add or comment:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/riverfestival.jpg)
Amphitheatre would be earth-terraced like Auditorium Shores in Austin, with the current amphitheatre/stage torn down:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_v1AgOv7bJPg/S6mubP3MgMI/AAAAAAAABSY/ZaZ9Ld6fCQ0/BA-5944.jpg)
The Great Lawn would be an open space for use by festivals and soccer/frisbee/etc., similar to Commons Park in Denver (love this pic btw, you can't engineer where people walk!):
(http://www.denverinfill.com/images/blog/2008-04/2008-04-12_sign2.jpg)
The boathouse could be something like what they have been building in OKC, on the bluff by the current boathouse next to the river access ramp:
(http://www.chi-athenaeum.org/intarch/2009/chesapeakeboathouse56/2.jpg)
Have to buy out two properties south of your Playground Area label and South parking lot label. MidCon doesn't own those. One of those properties I worked at from 1994-2002 (Bender Direct Mail). Not sure who owns the other. At the time I worked for Bender, it was Rodgers Litho.
Two files attached; one is a straight map copied with property boundaries; the other is the same boundary map more inline with your satellite imagery. The blue pin indicates the MidCon property, the darker outlined boundary indicates my former employer. Looks like the Rodgers family still owns the two parcels to the south of that. Not saying I don't like your idea, just clarifying that Midcon doesn't own that whole parcel from the Riverparks south on Jackson to 23rd. Plus, there's a RR track that runs N/S on the west boundary of the MidCo property line.
Any new info on low-water dams.......50 Mill for Mid-co wow.....!!
Quote from: Breadburner on February 14, 2011, 03:10:55 PM
Any new info on low-water dams.......50 Mill for Mid-co wow.....!!
I could be wrong on that number, I think that was the asking price circa Oct. '07 when Randi Miller was trying to fleece us out of $286mm.
Quote from: Hoss on February 14, 2011, 03:06:36 PM
Two files attached; one is a straight map copied with property boundaries; the other is the same boundary map more inline with your satellite imagery. The blue pin indicates the MidCon property, the darker outlined boundary indicates my former employer. Looks like the Rodgers family still owns the two parcels to the south of that. Not saying I don't like your idea, just clarifying that Midcon doesn't own that whole parcel from the Riverparks south on Jackson to 23rd. Plus, there's a RR track that runs N/S on the west boundary of the MidCo property line.
So everything east of the tracks is Mid-Con, correct? The Rodgers Litho property west of the tracks wouldn't be included and could stay as it is.
Quote from: SXSW on February 14, 2011, 04:52:11 PM
So everything east of the tracks is Mid-Con, correct? The Rodgers Litho property west of the tracks wouldn't be included and could stay as it is.
There's an "available" sign on Rogers Litho. Not sure if it's for lease or sale. Curious if it's priced with the idea it might wind up being part of a river development down the line or for what it is now: warehouse space.
Am I the only one who thinks we oughta just move out of the west bank? Wouldn't a new festival area at the Blair Mansion property be the ticket? Sure you'd have to have underground parking somewhere to keep the integrity of the residential area, but this makes WAY too much sense instead of investing in that joke of a shell on the West bank.
Sure, keep Oktoberfest on the west side so that the pukers and partiers can trample the crap out of that rarely used land.
But an outdoor amphitheater makes the most sense at Blair. I'd like to see the green space kept at Blair, but with some added touches to make it a little more "functional" as a public space.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20101017_BlairMansion1017.jpg
And, why would you want to put a massive, noisy ampitheater in the middle of this quiet residential neighborhood?
I think the west bank is the perfect place for a large festival/park area. There are no houses around to be disturbed, and it could give us something to be proud of, instead of a big empty field.
Another amphitheater we can underutilize?
I think as long as we didn't overbuild it, it wouldn't be underutilized. At least not in the summer. We could showcase some local talent.
I think it's been mentioned on here before why the current amphitheater is not being used, but I don't recall the reason. The facility is still in great shape, at least the part on the land. Why not re-hab what we have or fill in the lagoon and build a new stage area. A friend at INCOG told me a couple of years ago that filling in the lagoon was part of the RWFP plan.
Filling in the lagoon is a good idea. That ampitheater would probably get more use if we did.
The current amphitheatre is too small for many concerts. I remember River Fest one year where they had the festival on the west bank and didn't even use the amphitheatre and instead set up a stage on the big grassy field next to it. Another issue with the current 'floating stage' is the bugs from spring-fall. They don't have as much of a problem with the bugs on the field as they do on the water itself. It makes more sense to tear down the amphitheatre, get rid of the floating stage, fill in the lagoon and/or remove the jetty (if that's what they are going to do) and build a new earth-terraced amphitheatre just to the south. The skyline view from that location is awesome. If Festival Park were nicer I imagine we would see more use, including more concerts, and more than just Oktoberfest. It could be more of an active park year-round. Not many cities have such a space on their river so close to downtown with the views we have on the west bank.
Anyone know the capacity at the amphitheater now? I was guessing 1500 to 2000.
It was a hopping place back in the early 1990s. I've seen the Moody Blues, Robert Palmer, and Bruce Hornsby & The Range there and it was always packed. I'm assuming it had to have been at least a 2000 seat venue to have gotten that kind of talent there at the time.
I've mentioned it several times but the insect problem became more than apparent when Palmer altered his lyrics in one of his more notable songs as he was swatting his way through his set:
"You're gonna have to face it you're infested with bugs"
True story.
Is the Mid Con site going to be included in new development or is this a wishful thinking idea? Just curious before I make any comments.
Quote from: dbacks fan on February 16, 2011, 12:15:37 PM
Is the Mid Con site going to be included in new development or is this a wishful thinking idea? Just curious before I make any comments.
That's the
$20, $40, $50 ???? million elephant in the room.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 16, 2011, 01:36:27 PM
That's the $20, $40, $50 ???? million elephant in the room.
I went back and read the thread from the beginning. The reason I ask is, if it were made part of RP, it would give the area between 21st and the edge of Westport, roughly 1.6 million sqft of space, thats almost twice the size of Tempe Beach Park and could be very well developed.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Tempe.jpg)
When I was out your way in Nov. '08, I checked out the riverfront at Tempe and it was really cool. My only disappointment was not being able to hook up with the Rio Salado Rowing Club when I was there. I finally got an email reply from someone about 8 weeks later wanting to know if I was still wanting to row. LOL
Quote from: dbacks fan on February 16, 2011, 01:50:17 PM
I went back and read the thread from the beginning. The reason I ask is, if it were made part of RP, it would give the area between 21st and the edge of Westport, roughly 1.6 million sqft of space, thats almost twice the size of Tempe Beach Park and could be very well developed.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Tempe.jpg)
Yep. The question is who will get their hands on it [the Mid-Con property] first, the land developers wanting to develop Riverwalk Crossing/Branson Landing-Tulsa Edition or Kaiser/Warren who would likely turn it into a larger Festival Green/Amphitheatre and multi-use park space.
The Warrens had a plan to buy Westport at one time and redevelop it into denser apartments and possibly mixed-use. That would be fine. But first make Festival Park larger and concentrate other development on the east bank where there is already an established neighborhood with
plenty of redevelopment opportunities.
Another good example of what Festival Park could be is in Louisville, KY:
Maps
(http://www.louisvilleky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/F7C17EAF-4814-4B2B-8556-0820056495A6/0/wpmaplg.jpg)
(http://brokensidewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/riverview_park_03.jpg)
Aerials
(http://www.wiserdesigns.com/images/t-1_aerial_waterfront.jpg)
(http://www.8664.org/assets/8664%20Makes%20Louisville%20Better.jpg)
Terraced-seating amphitheatre
(http://www.skyshotsblimpcam.com/db2/00172/skyshotsblimpcam.com/_uimages/waterfront_lg.gif)
A good example, but I think it could be improved.
RFP put out for west bank development. Under the best circumstances construction could begin in a year, but I think it will probably be more like two years.
http://m.newson6.com/LocalNewsStory.html?pid=2264&parenturl=http%3a%2f%2fkotv.com%2fapi%2fgetFeed.aspx%3fid%3d4%26date%3d20110304&itemurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.newson6.com%2fglobal%2fstory.asp%3fS%3d14301299%26clienttype%3drssstory
Quote from: ZYX on March 22, 2011, 05:43:51 PM
RFP put out for west bank development. Under the best circumstances construction could begin in a year, but I think it will probably be more like two years.
http://m.newson6.com/LocalNewsStory.html?pid=2264&parenturl=http%3a%2f%2fkotv.com%2fapi%2fgetFeed.aspx%3fid%3d4%26date%3d20110304&itemurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.newson6.com%2fglobal%2fstory.asp%3fS%3d14301299%26clienttype%3drssstory
It will be interesting to see the proposals. I hope GKFF is involved and it becomes one large Festival Park with Westport redeveloped into the mixed-use and/or residential "development".
5 years in the best case scenario....
Quote from: SXSW on March 22, 2011, 08:43:56 PM
It will be interesting to see the proposals. I hope GKFF is involved and it becomes one large Festival Park with Westport redeveloped into the mixed-use and/or residential "development".
Yeah, same here. I think that about 2/3 if this land should be dedicated to expanding the park, with the remaining 1/3 used for some quality development. I don't want anything cheaply constructed, or another Riverwalk. Riverwalk is okay, but we don't need another one. Plus, I think our main focus should still be in downtown. I don't want to see some suburban style development on the west bank take some of the glory away from downtown. In a few more years (5-10), when downtown is more established, THEN I would like to see maybe something similar to the old Channels project, except on land. A highrise condo tower constructed there would have some amazing views of downtown. But even if that were to happen, I would still rather our development focus stay on the east side if the river.
Quote from: ZYX on March 22, 2011, 09:32:02 PM
Yeah, same here. I think that about 2/3 if this land should be dedicated to expanding the park, with the remaining 1/3 used for some quality development. I don't want anything cheaply constructed, or another Riverwalk. Riverwalk is okay, but we don't need another one. Plus, I think our main focus should still be in downtown. I don't want to see some suburban style development on the west bank take some of the glory away from downtown. In a few more years (5-10), when downtown is more established, THEN I would like to see maybe something similar to the old Channels project, except on land. A highrise condo tower constructed there would have some amazing views of downtown. But even if that were to happen, I would still rather our development focus stay on the east side if the river.
Completely agree. The east bank around Riverside & Denver is where the riverside "development" should take place. Yes it's not a brownfield like the west bank and involves redeveloping existing properties but you are able to then create more synergy between the riverfront, existing urban neighborhoods in Riverview, downtown, 18th & Boston and midtown. IMO that area is perfect for a midrise/highrise residential tower and higher density redevelopment of the apartments along Riverside overlooking the river. A huge park across the river enhances that view and would make up for losing part of RiverParks around Blue Rose due to potential future riverfront development and expanded parking in that area.
I'm thinking more in terms of this:
http://gawker.com/#!5682021/this-bible-amusement-park-will-let-you-walk-on-water-with-jesus
or
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-12-02/news/27083133_1_amusement-park-theme-park-creation-museum
Non profit, no doubt and an unlikely payer of ad valorem taxes. :)
Environmental section is interesting...land is "as is". And they know it failed an audit....and 2 tracks have not been tested.
The Deciders... p. 30 #1. Oy!
Can of worms....
Quote from: ZYX on March 22, 2011, 09:32:02 PM
Yeah, same here. I think that about 2/3 if this land should be dedicated to expanding the park, with the remaining 1/3 used for some quality development. I don't want anything cheaply constructed, or another Riverwalk. Riverwalk is okay, but we don't need another one. Plus, I think our main focus should still be in downtown. I don't want to see some suburban style development on the west bank take some of the glory away from downtown. In a few more years (5-10), when downtown is more established, THEN I would like to see maybe something similar to the old Channels project, except on land. A highrise condo tower constructed there would have some amazing views of downtown. But even if that were to happen, I would still rather our development focus stay on the east side if the river.
The development of the Brick Yard area in Oklahoma City has had several factions in this city almost drooling for years as plans have been presented to the unwashed to develop the riverfront.
The plans that have come out over the last 4 decades just don't seem to get the public excited. I don't think that most of our citizens are really aware of what great potential there is in the river development, and what an asset
we have in the Arkansas; as long as the development doesn't lead to another Riverwalks, read commercial development.
Unfortunately, and I'm one that used to think that way, the term river development, with the various plans that were presented, came to mean two things: High density commercial development, think the 71st street ribbon running south from downtown to 44, or just another bond issue that will allow more concrete structures spread up and down Riverparks' banks, that eventually turn into something like that floating stage.
The plans that were conceived and presented to the voters always seemed to focus on development of one or both banks, but some were so radical,or exorbitant in cost , such as The Channels, that most of our citizenry
obviously just didn't buy into it. When there are potholes in the streets, most citizens have other priorities on their wish list for development.
Master plans in this city, prior to PlaniTulsa, were either not followed, if approved by voters, or died at the ballot box because of the investment required by the voting public. And river development, after some years, just seemed to fall into that same category.
It's going to be interesting to see what sort of development plans are presented to us when the bidding period is closed on the current request period.