Next election is time to flush all city counselors and recall the Mayor.
Giant FAIL on both sides.
We as citizens need to send the message that we are in control and have no intension of putting up with this.
If that were an option it would be nice.....
We are stuck with the current Gentlemen and will live to mourn their casualties.
If you caught the City Council meet yesterday evening... Dewey made reference to the "Downtown Master Plan", Mister Crawley, and other things he thought would make him seem like he was "the man"...
Dewey's idea of progressive transportation is...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/LightsOff.jpg)
or if you would prefer his vision of PlaniTulsa... Just think for a minute.
It is going to cost way too much money.
One of the casualties of this man will be PlaniTulsa being implemented to any substantial degree.
He can't dream of anything past getting things his way.
While I did not think it was a "Best" idea it took real dreamers to come up with...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/Isleconcept.jpg)
I hope getting a City Manager becomes something more than just a flash in the pan.
This whole Mayor thing just isn't working out.
I'm starting to feel the same way!
Tulsa (especially the Tulsa World) does not seem comfortable with government by consensus and vote. I guess we are accustomed to three or four movers and shakers running the show around here. The World believes citizens are supposed to fall in line like docile lap dogs.
But I disagree.
The council is absolutely on target in their criticism of Bartlett and the Council's refusal to go along to get along demonstrates that we may grow up yet.
I had some hope for Bartlett. I liked his goal to be our "job gettinest mayor." And I like the way he stood up to the Police Union. He has guts that Taylor did not possess. But he didn't need to deceive our council in the process.
Jack Henderson represents my interest on the council and disrespecting him is equivalent to disrespecting me.
The council is showings signs of life. Good Job.
Bartlett's performance to date qualifies for the "amateur hour." Maybe he will grow in office. But it's more likely that Tulsa will continue to suffer under the kind of incompetent leadership that has let a cow town like OKC pass us by.
I grew up believing that Republicans were as smart as they were mean and greedy. But these days you can drop "smart" from that list of adjectives.
p.s. My apologies to all the legal secretaries out there who certainly caught the grammatical error in my last post when I used an apostrophe in the possessive form of it.
I would love to do away with the city council all together....
Quote from: Hometown on July 16, 2010, 10:42:29 AM
Jack Henderson represents my interest on the council and disrespecting him is equivalent to disrespecting me.
Do you think a councilor who opposes community gardens because of his idiotic fear that marijuana will be grown in them should earn our respect?
I think the recall movement will grow in regards to the mayor, his arrogence and flat out lies are continuous. His statement today is another example. I keep saying, just because he says he didn't lie doesn't mean he didn't. The complete disregard of what people want, what contracts and law provides for is appalling. One smart move he made, he didn't bother to show up to the re-swearing in ceremony today for the officers that were just pawns in his political games.
I'll do my very best to be at the next TN Luncheon with petitions. I'm thinking of making shirts, "Want to recall the mayor? Ask me how" I keep petition sheets with me most everywhere I go. I think a Driller's game or two, another bigger event here or there, the signatures will stream in. People are sick of it. I also think the fact that he council is UNITED in this issue makes a powerful statement as well. Westcott and Eagleton are attorneys, do you really think they haven't read the charter and such? I'm pretty sure they have some good ideas as to whether what they are doing is legal or not. We already know they have bigger aspirations beyond the council, I'm sure they are making sure their butt is covered as well. I have several emails between myself and Westcott with heated disagreements about what the mayor was doing from the beginning, he was in complete support of the mayor, obviously the facts have been strong enough to support his change of heart.
I don't see how things get better until Bartlett is gone.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on July 16, 2010, 04:36:51 PM
Do you think a councilor who opposes community gardens because of his idiotic fear that marijuana will be grown in them should earn our respect?
In the real world you have to look at the total package and in that regard my respect for Henderson is growing.
Quote from: Hometown on July 16, 2010, 08:20:15 PM
In the real world you have to look at the total package and in that regard my respect for Henderson is growing.
What about my criticism isn't real-world? Anyone who holds a belief like that has serious credibility problems, and such a thing calls his judgment into question. A lack of a judgment is a real-world problem. A lack of judgment can lead to enormous mistakes.
And it's not just that. He's made some other proposals that are so tone-deaf politically and economically that one wonders whether he has any judgment at all.
Gee, this feels like "Deja Vu all over again." A city government that is so at odds with itself that the public feels compelled to throw them all out. I do not relish watching the city flounder for another 2 years while a new administration settles in. So, please, no recalls, no lawsuits, no BS! Lets not punish the rest of the city. Make a deal and get Simonson out of there, then learn how to work as a team and run the damn city.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on July 16, 2010, 10:55:31 PM
What about my criticism isn't real-world? Anyone who holds a belief like that has serious credibility problems, and such a thing calls his judgment into question. A lack of a judgment is a real-world problem. A lack of judgment can lead to enormous mistakes.
And it's not just that. He's made some other proposals that are so tone-deaf politically and economically that one wonders whether he has any judgment at all.
Anyone that thinks Bartlet is tougher than Taylor has their own judgment issues.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on July 16, 2010, 10:55:31 PM
He's made some other proposals that are so tone-deaf politically and economically that one wonders whether he has any judgment at all.
One of those proposals that Councilor Henderson made that fit your definition of being tone-deal politically and economically was to increase the pay of a City Councilor. There is no way that would fly at the same time that they are laying off and giving out furlough days.
But I think Councilor Henderson was right. I think the $18,000 a year pay for a job that has become so time-consuming is one of the reasons we have some disfunctional council meetings. I think better pay would attract more (and potentially better) candidates.
I think a City Councilor should be paid the exact average pay of the average citizen. No more. No less.
The Tulsa World always does a story on average pay in August so the last number I see is from 2008. That was $43,330 per year.
To increase each councilor's pay to that amount would cost $228,000 more per year. I think that would be money well spent.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on July 17, 2010, 12:31:02 PM
One of those proposals that Councilor Henderson made that fit your definition of being tone-deal politically and economically was to increase the pay of a City Councilor. There is no way that would fly at the same time that they are laying off and giving out furlough days.
But I think Councilor Henderson was right. I think the $18,000 a year pay for a job that has become so time-consuming is one of the reasons we have some disfunctional council meetings. I think better pay would attract more (and potentially better) candidates.
I think a City Councilor should be paid the exact average pay of the average citizen. No more. No less.
The Tulsa World always does a story on average pay in August so the last number I see is from 2008. That was $43,330 per year.
To increase each councilor's pay to that amount would cost $228,000 more per year. I think that would be money well spent.
I still plan on running in the next election regardless of the pay. However, the pay is for the "part-time" position of councilor, which is based on devoting two days a week to the position. Outside of the meetings those two days, I really don't see the council doing much. If the position continues to increase in responsibility it will become a situation where they will be required to spend more than those minimul amount of day, and I can see the need to increase the pay to compensate for that dedication of the position.
To be effective, you have to attend many night meetings as well. There are city meetings to discuss things like roads and parks, there are neighborhood meetings all across your district, and there are requests to appear at many civic meetings acoss the town. You also have to be available to hear constituent issues and return their e-mails and phone calls.
The good councilors work at this job at least full time and probably much more.
All we would end up with is overpaid ward politicians even more afraid of the unions than they are now, as there would be more money involved. Just look at the issues these jokers are wasting time with while the city is falling apart. Their only motivation seems to be to stay in office and to jockey for position to run for mayor.
The petition we need is to return to commission form of government.
Twenty years to amend the city charter by less persons that post on this board. The city meeting were crowed with vacant seats while the those filled could be counted with the fingers on one hand. Now we are going to change again to a city manager who will be appointed by nine persons representing almost 400,000 taxpayers who will continue to create city jobs based on the pay of one average of one multi-billionaire and 25,000 receptions on relief and food stamps (which average our some $40,000 yearly)
Before the ink was dry on the amendments we applied only the paying of the auditor as a elected official limited to 70 percent of mayor salary instead we have resorted to patriotism with the sky the limit on salaries that can be paid without to performance of the job in question. The city is controlled by ward politics as there is no way that a councilor can represent the number of voter in his district. This is what the people voted for now they don't like the piece chicken they ask for.
The councilor from the North City objects to the home gardening concept because it could open the door for increase pot growing. Not only also it would curtail production of the cash crops that are not being home grown.
China as it become a world power to recon with, in their courts of three judges only one can have any legal background and the other two laymen, Maybe it is time to think of a council of 50 laymen who receive $100 dollars for each meeting they attend, with a limit of two meeting per month as the amended charter indicated, The people ask for it now they have it and in the end one could predict that the federal intervention will settle it.
Our founding fathers required that all laws be written in the eight grade language. They never indicated that the governing bodies should act like one that had obtained eight grade learning.
China does not make enough chemicals to flush and sanitize the city hall.
Quote from: shadows on July 19, 2010, 12:05:12 AM
Twenty years to amend the city charter by less persons that post on this board. The city meeting were crowed with vacant seats while the those filled could be counted with the fingers on one hand. Now we are going to change again to a city manager who will be appointed by nine persons representing almost 400,000 taxpayers who will continue to create city jobs based on the pay of one average of one multi-billionaire and 25,000 receptions on relief and food stamps (which average our some $40,000 yearly)
Before the ink was dry on the amendments we applied only the paying of the auditor as a elected official limited to 70 percent of mayor salary instead we have resorted to patriotism with the sky the limit on salaries that can be paid without to performance of the job in question. The city is controlled by ward politics as there is no way that a councilor can represent the number of voter in his district. This is what the people voted for now they don't like the piece chicken they ask for.
The councilor from the North City objects to the home gardening concept because it could open the door for increase pot growing. Not only also it would curtail production of the cash crops that are not being home grown.
China as it become a world power to recon with, in their courts of three judges only one can have any legal background and the other two laymen, Maybe it is time to think of a council of 50 laymen who receive $100 dollars for each meeting they attend, with a limit of two meeting per month as the amended charter indicated, The people ask for it now they have it and in the end one could predict that the federal intervention will settle it.
Our founding fathers required that all laws be written in the eight grade language. They never indicated that the governing bodies should act like one that had obtained eight grade learning.
China does not make enough chemicals to flush and sanitize the city hall.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/3522525481_3d09a3a7a5.jpg)
Quote from: rwarn17588 on July 19, 2010, 06:53:10 AM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/3522525481_3d09a3a7a5.jpg)
No RW, you're doing it wrong...
(http://xenohistorian.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/playboybunnypancake.jpg)
;D
There is a problem with the amended charter as it seems no one knows what was amended or understands what great improvements were made in city government especially increasing the cost of government with less work and higher salaries. When a post is submitted the PAC-MAN still dominates entirely the total knowledge of who or how the city is being run or they are chopped up by the PAC-MAN. Only one thing is certain that it was written on sheets of rubber so it can be stretch to cover any of the powers to be needs.
Quote from: shadows on July 19, 2010, 11:09:35 PM
There is a problem with the amended charter as it seems no one knows what was amended or understands what great improvements were made in city government especially increasing the cost of government with less work and higher salaries. When a post is submitted the PAC-MAN still dominates entirely the total knowledge of who or how the city is being run or they are chopped up by the PAC-MAN. Only one thing is certain that it was written on sheets of rubber so it can be stretch to cover any of the powers to be needs.
Did you bump your little head again? You really should lie down and get some rest.
Quote from: Breadburner on July 16, 2010, 11:00:23 AM
I would love to do away with the city council all together....
No; I did not bump my wittle head like so many of the lifers of city hall continues to do so every day in their confusion to watch a government wants to be supported by the working poor and retirees with the stimulus federal pay outs. Were this secondary non-producing funding were to cease passed out from the secondary collection of those who are in need of relief. (for those who do not understand this says Tulsa live within it's means and quit asking for federal donations).
The TW printed out an article concerning the rise and fall of the American Empire (around the 1st of April) in which the author points out we we are operating on bogus paper without backup, which eluded to a false economy. Tulsa, with its glut of surplus of hotel rooms are now subsiding the adding of another 200 rooms at the working poor taxpayer's expense while one with 600 rooms has a struggle to keep theirs open.
Tulsa is too close to Oklahoma City and the days of a two day ride on horse back to it has long passed but we still hold on to the fantasy that Tulsa needs to duplicate their governing when the distance of communizing on high speed mono-rail can be accomplished in less than an hour. (Many job holders in NYC spend that time at the present.}
It would be so simple to annul the Tulsa City Amended Charter and build a fence line to OC 200 feet wide and install a mono-rail to OC saving
Tulsa's working poor millions of dollars by stopping duplications of government.
Tulsans voted for the changes, that have been installed by the mayor by a majority vote and now the small group are nitpicking for some reason that would prohibit him from doing his job.
The solution lies with the small group to find a good solid wall, if one can be found in the new city bargain city hall and bumping their wittle heads on it until they can see's the light.
It will come to pass as Tulsa will be forced into default and the stimulus monies end with its time cycle and the clock is running. The mayor seems to be the only one with the intelligence to realize it.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on July 20, 2010, 08:43:22 AM
Did you bump your little head again? You really should lie down and get some rest.
Although I first heard the idea floated about on KFAQ Hate Radio, I kind of like the idea that to be qualified to run for City Council one should have at minimum a 4-year degree.
And I agree that BOTH this current council and the Mayor should be ousted at the earliest possible moment.
I'm now of the belief we need to throw everyone out and start over. I hate to say that because I like Bynum and a couple of others. But this City Council continues to exceed its stated authority and this mayor seems to just want to fight. Throw them all out.
Quote from: Gold on August 03, 2010, 11:32:23 AM
I'm now of the belief we need to throw everyone out and start over. I hate to say that because I like Bynum and a couple of others. But this City Council continues to exceed its stated authority and this mayor seems to just want to fight. Throw them all out.
True dat!
QuoteCity of Tulsa, A Model Government for A Colorado Community?
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12918103
(http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12918103)
QuoteTULSA, OK -- Several Tulsa city leaders have been asked for advice as voters in Colorado Springs, Colorado, consider changing their local government to the "strong mayor" form used in Tulsa.
Colorado Springs currently has a city manager who handles most affairs of government, while the City Council appoints some positions.
A citizens initiative called "The Mayor Project" is gathering signatures for a petition that would give voters the option of creating a strong mayor's post to run the government.
A Colorado Springs newspaper contacted several Tulsa leaders for comment on how well it works. Several city councilors were quoted, though the newspaper reported Mayor Dewey Bartlett did not return a call for comment.
Colorado Springs Independent article: Comin' On Strong
The problem is that any form of government will be completely worthless if you get the likes of Dewey Bartlett running it. It's not the strong mayor position, it's the idiot in the office.
Quote from: nathanm on August 03, 2010, 04:51:59 PM
The problem is that any form of government will be completely worthless if you get the likes of Dewey Bartlett running it. It's not the strong mayor position, it's the idiot in the office.
and yet we can't find anyone decent to put in the position. Savage was largely inneffective (now I am going off of a very old, very uninvovled memory on that one), Lafortune was... well... Lafortune, and Taylor overspent. While Dewey is a complete moron, the position doesn't seem to attract those who not only have the best interests of the city in mind, but also those who have the ability to impliment things in a way that will be good for the city over all.
I think the form is at issue. Do they not have term limits on the council? If so, why not?
The council has several personalities that aren't interested in getting anything worthwhile done.
Major LAWLZ
City Of Tulsa: Model Government For Colorado Community?
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12918103
Quote from: jne on August 03, 2010, 05:30:47 PM
Major LAWLZ
City Of Tulsa: Model Government For Colorado Community?
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12918103
Ah, I see I was a little late on this one.
BTW Does anyone think Dewey would have any problem screwing things up even if there were a city manager position? I still don't have a very strong feeling either for or against such a position. Although, I admit, I'm getting warmer to the idea as this saga continues, but really, would it make that much difference?
Quote from: jne on August 03, 2010, 05:45:21 PM
Ah, I see I was a little late on this one.
BTW Does anyone think Dewey would have any problem screwing things up even if there were a city manager position? I still don't have a very strong feeling either for or against such a position. Although, I admit, I'm getting warmer to the idea as this saga continues, but really, would it make that much difference?
Isn't that basically what "Vice-Mayor" Simonson is doing?
Quote from: Townsend on August 03, 2010, 03:05:51 PM
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12918103
(http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12918103)
I have written them a letter.
As I was coming into the office today, I heard on KRMG that Mayor Bartlet (sic) has only made it to something like three out of 35 meetings for the various boards the mayor of Tulsa traditionally sits on, if I understood the story correctly.
What the hell is he so busy doing? Keener business?
For a mayor who supposedly lived in Ft. Lauderdale, Mayor Taylor sure managed to make the rounds of meetings and public appearances and she didn't take a salary.
I had a distinct feeling Bartlet (sic) would be a part-time mayor. Is it possible we've ever had a worse mayor? I think even Terry Young did a better job.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 04, 2010, 09:32:53 AM
As I was coming into the office today, I heard on KRMG that Mayor Bartlet (sic) has only made it to something like three out of 35 meetings for the various boards the mayor of Tulsa traditionally sits on, if I understood the story correctly.
What the hell is he so busy doing? Keener business?
For a mayor who supposedly lived in Ft. Lauderdale, Mayor Taylor sure managed to make the rounds of meetings and public appearances and she didn't take a salary.
I had a distinct feeling Bartlet (sic) would be a part-time mayor. Is it possible we've ever had a worse mayor? I think even Terry Young did a better job.
I get the distinct impression that Dewey wasn't really elected mayor and has no intention of serving, he's a figure head only. Terry Simonson was elected using Dewey's name.
Quote from: swake on August 04, 2010, 09:52:09 AM
I get the distinct impression that Dewey wasn't really elected mayor and has no intention of serving, he's a figure head only. Terry Simonson was elected using Dewey's name.
And for that, they need to be re-called. Their shell game has been exposed.
Quote from: Gaspar on August 04, 2010, 07:41:45 AM
I have written them a letter.
Many of the Colorado Springs City Counselors are now following this thread. ;)
Welcome guys/gals. Feel free to chime in.
Quote from: swake on August 04, 2010, 09:52:09 AM
I get the distinct impression that Dewey wasn't really elected mayor and has no intention of serving, he's a figure head only. Terry Simonson was elected using Dewey's name.
Interesting...
Well it worked for Dick Cheney for eight years. ;D
Quote from: Gaspar on August 04, 2010, 02:06:07 PM
Many of the Colorado Springs City Counselors are now following this thread. ;)
Welcome guys/gals. Feel free to chime in.
Maybe we should fix the spelling in the title then.
Helloooooo, Colorado Springs
Quote from: Townsend on August 04, 2010, 02:26:38 PM
Maybe we should fix the spelling in the title then.
Helloooooo, Colorado Springs
ha, I didn't even notice the title misspelling.
To be honest I'm not sure if it would be better to go back to commisioner system or not. That system seems too open for abuse, but than again, the current "strong mayor" seems to get plenty of abuse. Maybe a better set of checks and balances in place that allow for a more effective oversight of the positions. Under the current system it seems all that is being done is petty squabbeling between Bartlett and the council. Yes, some of it is very ligitimate, but other parts are getting just downright spiteful. And, of course, it gets worst because the ability of the council to oversee the mayors office is limited, and even questioned.
I'm good with the form of government we have.
I question the performance of the actors in the play...and maybe the one calling the shots from stage right we didn't vote for.
I'd love to see comments from Colorado Springs regarding their own model
Three of the seven Colorado Springs councilors are "at-large" members. This would likely be an improvement on the Tulsa model, which is a model for ward politics, dominated by neighborhood activists and special interests. Then again, almost anything would be an improvement on the Tulsa model.
"At Large" was severely criticized on this forum as leading to domination by elitist mid towners. I never understood that line of thinking.
Quote from: waterboy on August 08, 2010, 08:10:01 PM
"At Large" was severely criticized on this forum as leading to domination by elitist mid towners. I never understood that line of thinking.
Considering out of district donations which have been flowing into council races (i.e. Lakin, Patrick, Trail, etc.), I think there's enough reason for some concern about that.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 09, 2010, 08:59:02 AM
Considering out of district donations which have been flowing into council races (i.e. Lakin, Patrick, Trail, etc.), I think there's enough reason for some concern about that.
It'll be interesting to see what south tulsa's population is compared to the area where "elitist mid towners" are willing to live when the census folks get around to releasing block group counts.