I know I am in a minority on this subject, but find myself there on most subjects discussed in Tulsa and on this forum.
I think the parking meter rates for downtown meters should be raised. I park at a downtown meter almost every day and even occasionally have a ticket (when a meeting goes long). I also pay $75 a month for a surface parking lot spot next to my office.
Fifty cents an hour is just too low. I just drove through eight states on vacation and every city we stopped in had more expensive rates. Most were $1.50 an hour. I just paid a nickel in Tulsa for six minutes (long enough to run in and pick up a package). A nickel.
Who is not coming downtown because they have to pay a nickel? Who won't shop or eat downtown because of fifty cents an hour? Will making it a dollar an hour really have a stifling affect on downtown revitalization?
Raising the rate charged per hour will impact very few people and will provide the city a little extra cash to do other things.
Actually I think raising the meter rate would be a good thing. While maybe not up to $1.50, I could see at least $.75. What I disagree with is extending the hours to beyond 5, and letting American Parking take over the meters. I believe this was all discussed on another thread though, I'm just too lazy to look it up right now lol.
Have the money go to helping establish a trolley service and I am in. I would also like to see card readers that work and have it so that you can swipe in, then swipe out, and get charged for the time you are there.
Quote from: TheArtist on July 13, 2010, 05:37:14 PM
Have the money go to helping establish a trolley service and I am in. I would also like to see card readers that work and have it so that you can swipe in, then swipe out, and get charged for the time you are there.
I am not fond of parking meters and use them and the private parking lot fees as an excuse to not come downtown. (Evenings and weekends excepted.) I might relent some if the fees were used to establish a free park and ride and a (real) trolley system. A fare to ride the trolley would be acceptable if not too steep. A frequent user rate would be a plus.
One of the common "reasons" for the parking meters is to promote turn over for downtown businesses. I have a few potential options for this.
1. Free parking to attract business by having businesses "validate" a parking receipt. Each business could establish their own minimum purchase or whatever to get your receipt validated.
2. Free street parking but time limited. Have a parking enforcement person chalk tires to see if cars have moved. This service could be paid for by the businesses benefiting from parking turn over.
3. Have a short time free, then expensive rate. Artist's idea to swipe a card could be used to implement this.
4. Admit parking is nothing more than another way to
discourage visitors make money and raise the rates to the level the market will bear. Might take some trial and error.
I believe one of the reasons for the growth of shopping centers include the convenience (OK, not the traffic along 71st between Memorial and Garnett) and the fact that patrons were not nickeled and dimed to death for the privilege of shopping there. A walk across Woodland Hills parking lot is much the same to me as walking a few blocks downtown. The view of parked cars isn't particularly attractive (with some exceptions) but mostly I know what I want and am not interested in window shopping businesses with up to the sidewalk storefronts anyway.
Mr. Suburbia (Who actually wants a good downtown nearby for the things small towns cannot support.)
What can't the small towns support that is being well done in downtown Tulsa?
Fancy 'designer' bars?
If higher parking meter rates were in place, how would that be different from raising taxes? (And yes, fees are taxes, so that isn't valid argument.)
And trolleys?? How is that different from a bus, except for the severely limited circulation/usefulness?
Don't misunderstand - I enjoyed riding the trolley in the '50s from north Harvard to downtown. Also would use the bus exclusively if my traffic pattern allowed. Doesn't now, but has a lot in the past, so I did ride it. Excellent way to get to work.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 13, 2010, 08:09:17 PM
What can't the small towns support that is being well done in downtown Tulsa?
Fancy 'designer' bars?
If higher parking meter rates were in place, how would that be different from raising taxes? (And yes, fees are taxes, so that isn't valid argument.)
And trolleys?? How is that different from a bus, except for the severely limited circulation/usefulness?
Don't misunderstand - I enjoyed riding the trolley in the '50s from north Harvard to downtown. Also would use the bus exclusively if my traffic pattern allowed. Doesn't now, but has a lot in the past, so I did ride it. Excellent way to get to work.
I wasn't thinking so much of bars and entertainment although I wouldn't expect a symphony orchestra in Bixby or Jenks. Some examples I can think of are Radio Inc, Ridgeways and Triangle. There are bound to be some specialty shops I can't think of at the moment that are not restricted from a small town but are more likely to be successful in a larger town. The internet has taken some of that away.
Higher parking rates vs higher taxes. Yep, about the same. The usual excuse for parking meters is for customer turn over, not raising money. Just a ruse as far as I am concerned.
If you don't know the difference between a (real) trolley and a bus, I suggest you spend a few hours at www.lightrailnow.org Start with the myths section and facts section. I will admit that the trolleys I grew up with operated more like an interurban than a street car. In our area the trolleys had a private right of way, mostly double tracked. See SEPTA route 101 (Media, PA line). There was a stop about 100 yds from our house. The High School was 2 stops away. The Jr High School was one stop farther. The Catholic schools were about 10 minutes in the other direction.
The only positive memories I have of bus trips were for school trips and one trip with some fellow volunteer firemen to see the Phillies play. I think they lost. A trip to Atlantic City to avoid the hassle of having a car there was terrible. The bus stopped at every small town along the way. Noisy bouncy ride. Not fun, not comfortable. I think we were able to change to an express bus for the return trip. I also remember the buses idling at 69th Street Station in Upper Darby with their stinky diesel exhaust and noise. The trolleys were quiet, interrupted only by the occasional running of the air compressor. Trolley, good. Bus, PU.
Yeah, the trolley in Tulsa was dedicated to a path. I don't remember rail - I think it had rubber tires, but the power wires ran above the car a few feet. (I was young).
For all its limitations, the Tulsa bus system isn't just horrible. Move quite a few people and could move a lot more.
School bus is different from the metro bus. The ones Tulsa has now are almost comfortable comparatively. I always park at Hale or Broken Arrow and ride the bus to the state fair. Excellent alternative to driving myself.
Highway buses suck. I will walk before that.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 13, 2010, 11:27:14 PM
Yeah, the trolley in Tulsa was dedicated to a path. I don't remember rail - I think it had rubber tires, but the power wires ran above the car a few feet. (I was young).
For all its limitations, the Tulsa bus system isn't just horrible. Move quite a few people and could move a lot more.
School bus is different from the metro bus. The ones Tulsa has now are almost comfortable comparatively. I always park at Hale or Broken Arrow and ride the bus to the state fair. Excellent alternative to driving myself.
Highway buses suck. I will walk before that.
Philly had, and still has some trolley buses. Two overhead wires since there was no path to ground through the steel wheels to the rails. The ride comfort depends on the condition of the road (Tulsa comfortable?) or the rails. Lots of previous discussion about this in other threads.
Just to try to get back on topic. Good public transit would reduce the number of people wanting to drive their car to or in downtown. My preference is rail but a good bus system can be effective.
Well, if I worked in downtown Tulsa, there is no way I would ever drive. The bus from BA to Tulsa is too good and too cheap to do anything else.
I would take it one big step further. Get rid of parking meters. Get rid of automobile traffic in core downtown. Establish reasonable, dependable shuttle system so all parking is around the perimeter and only shuttles go to center. Frankfurt to Elgin. Brady to 15th. (Or something near that).
How is that for radical? But would be very good. I would be much more inclined to bother with downtown than I ever am now.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on July 13, 2010, 11:42:18 PM
I would take it one big step further. Get rid of parking meters. Get rid of automobile traffic in core downtown. Establish reasonable, dependable shuttle system so all parking is around the perimeter and only shuttles go to center. Frankfurt to Elgin. Brady to 15th. (Or something near that).
How is that for radical? But would be very good. I would be much more inclined to bother with downtown than I ever am now.
Frankfurt to Elgin is only one block. Did you intend maybe Elwood?
Sorry,... forgot the F street on the west side... one block west of Elwood. Or Elwood would do fine.
Well, before I am accused of public drunkeness again, I guess I will get off here. Would hate to put someone in the position of casting aspersions against me - that only hurts their spiritual karma. Puts a dark blot on their soul.
Frisco
I avoid going down town like the plague because I hate to feed the meter. I have replaced several vendors over the years because the hassle of parking and paying for it drives me crazy.
I guess I'm spoiled, I want to park, walk in, and do business.
Quote from: Gaspar on July 14, 2010, 08:08:04 AM
I avoid going down town like the plague because I hate to feed the meter. I have replaced several vendors over the years because the hassle of parking and paying for it drives me crazy.
I guess I'm spoiled, I want to park, walk in, and do business.
You haven't been downtown recently. Last ten times I've parked at a meter it didn't work. Free parking.
Quote from: Gaspar on July 14, 2010, 08:08:04 AM
I avoid going down town like the plague because I hate to feed the meter. I have replaced several vendors over the years because the hassle of parking and paying for it drives me crazy.
I guess I'm spoiled, I want to park, walk in, and do business.
I am amazed that you would go to the extent of "replacing several vendors" because of having to keep a handful of nickels in your car.
That is like saying you won't eat at a restaurant that has waitresses. You don't to be bothered with all that ordering at the table or tipping.
I'm fine with the increased rate during a business day.
But not on weekends or after 5 on weekdays.
American parking and their sorry excuse for parking lot care can kiss my dimpled butt. I'm against them and any attempt by them to increase their business by asking for on-street parking rates to be extended beyond normal business hours.
If the city wants to increase income in this way, charge fees for all surface lots within city limits. $.10 an hour Monday through Friday for each spot...oh and maybe they should get the parking meters repaired.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on July 14, 2010, 09:26:17 AM
I am amazed that you would go to the extent of "replacing several vendors" because of having to keep a handful of nickels in your car.
That is like saying you won't eat at a restaurant that has waitresses. You don't to be bothered with all that ordering at the table or tipping.
It's the hassle of finding a spot, then 9 times out of 10 I don't have the change. I guess it's laziness. I like to park at a business. I never carry cash, and to do so requires that I stop at an ATM.
Now if we had more meters that accepted debit cards, it wouldn't be so bad. If it's raining, forget it.
Quote from: Gaspar on July 14, 2010, 10:51:04 AM
It's the hassle of finding a spot, then 9 times out of 10 I don't have the change. I guess it's laziness. I like to park at a business. I never carry cash, and to do so requires that I stop at an ATM.
Now if we had more meters that accepted debit cards, it wouldn't be so bad. If it's raining, forget it.
We are not that far off. I agree that more debit card readers would be nice. I am probably just as lazy as you, but don't seem to have as much of a problem as you finding a parking spot within a block of where I am going.
Come back downtown. Bring a bag o' nickels and join in the fun.
Quote from: Townsend on July 14, 2010, 10:15:20 AM
I'm fine with the increased rate during a business day.
But not on weekends or after 5 on weekdays.
American parking and their sorry excuse for parking lot care can kiss my dimpled butt. I'm against them and any attempt by them to increase their business by asking for on-street parking rates to be extended beyond normal business hours.
+1
Our parking meter rates are WAY cheap. The idea is to keep the spots from being occupied by people working downtown and have them available for patrons, correct? I think it would be smart to implement a modest rate hike at first with a possible incremental increase to a reasonable market price.
It is just bad timing to start charging on nights and weekends when we are trying to promote activity downtown at these times. Why would we create that deterrent when we are trying to support downtown start-ups and growth. Its not much of a deterrent from me, but most people are fatter, and lazier, and even more finicky than I am and it will encourage them to go to somewhere else instead. Downtown offerings are already limited in choice and hours of operation. I know thats a chicken before the egg thing, but isn't that enough of a barrier. Why add to the hump we're trying to get over?
My biggest laugh is when I see people park in pay lots during nights (such as shows at the PAC or going to the bars/club) when so many on-street spaces are available.
Quote from: TURobY on July 14, 2010, 12:29:14 PM
My biggest laugh is when I see people park in pay lots during nights (such as shows at the PAC or going to the bars/club) when so many on-street spaces are available.
They never come downtown any other times to know any better.
They prob think they have to pay $5/$10 no matter what or when.
I stopped putting money into the meters downtown when I realized they are not enforced, atleast in the late afternoon and evenings.
$.50 an hour is cheap. (perhaps why some meters don't work?) After seeing RM's comment I looked up the going rate here in Phoenix and it is $1.50 and that went into effect March '09.
LA is $4.00 an hour at the meter.
http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/02/23/daily38.html (http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/02/23/daily38.html)
A funny parking ticket story, we were traveling through CA in 2003 and we left SF early to go to Monterey since I had not been there. On the day before Thanksgiving we parked in a municipla parking lot near the wharf to go take pictures and spent $2.00 for a 1/2 hour. We were 5 minutes late getting back and there was a ticket for $25.00 for overparking. The lot will hold about 600 cars. I looked around and there were maybe10 to 20 cars in the lot, and no sign of someone from parking enforcement. Don't know if the former Mrs. dback ever paid that ticket.
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 14, 2010, 03:07:51 PM
A funny parking ticket story, we were traveling through CA in 2003 and we left SF early to go to Monterey since I had not been there. On the day before Thanksgiving we parked in a municipla parking lot near the wharf to go take pictures and spent $2.00 for a 1/2 hour. We were 5 minutes late getting back and there was a ticket for $25.00 for overparking. The lot will hold about 600 cars. I looked around and there were maybe10 to 20 cars in the lot, and no sign of someone from parking enforcement. Don't know if the former Mrs. dback ever paid that ticket.
there they have the Ninja Parking enforcer
Thanks OKC for giving us the oh so despised parking meter:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/07/16/parking.meter.anniversary/index.html?hpt=C2 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/07/16/parking.meter.anniversary/index.html?hpt=C2)
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 16, 2010, 11:36:47 AM
Thanks OKC for giving us the oh so despised parking meter:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/07/16/parking.meter.anniversary/index.html?hpt=C2 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/07/16/parking.meter.anniversary/index.html?hpt=C2)
lol you didn't know that? There is also some traffic control device (yeild sign, stop sign, traffic light, something) that was first introduced, I believe, in guthrie, as well. We know how to take the fun out of driving in oklahoma
"lol you didn't know that? There is also some traffic control device (yeild sign, stop sign, traffic light, something) that was first introduced, I believe, in guthrie, as well. We know how to take the fun out of driving in oklahoma"
Yes, I know that, and let's not forget the lowly shopping cart as well. Don't even get me started on the Turnpikes, I can remember when there were only six of them.
Quote from: Fiend on July 14, 2010, 02:43:19 PM
I stopped putting money into the meters downtown when I realized they are not enforced, atleast in the late afternoon and evenings.
They have one guy who writes tickets downtown, I think. That's clearly not enough to cover a mile square area.
But that seems to be the way government works in Oklahoma, the state missing out on money by being thrifty. It's the same way with the parking meter batteries, the weigh stations, and countless other things.
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 16, 2010, 11:36:47 AM
Thanks OKC for giving us the oh so despised parking meter:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/07/16/parking.meter.anniversary/index.html?hpt=C2 (http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/07/16/parking.meter.anniversary/index.html?hpt=C2)
They just said on the news that it was 70 years ago today that the meter made it's debut
Quote from: custosnox on July 16, 2010, 07:02:17 PM
They just said on the news that it was 70 years ago today that the meter made it's debut
From Oklahoma Horizon:
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 16, 2010, 01:05:32 PM
"lol you didn't know that? There is also some traffic control device (yeild sign, stop sign, traffic light, something)
First Yield sign was installed in Tulsa.
I had the honor of interviewing inventor Clinton Riggs when he was chief of security for Tulsa Junior College downtown, and I believe he had the original in his office. Neat guy, lots of stories.
The electronic meters downtown are a complete mess. Some work, some don't. Some take debit cards, some don't. Some meters advertise 2 hours while the sign directly overhead advertises 1 hour. Some meters advertise 1 hour while the sign directly above advertises 2 hours. The arrow buttons that allow the consumer to change the time requested do not work, i.e. if using a debit card on a 2 hour meter, you have one choice - 2 hours. Some meters with a balance of time will take your money without adding any time, others will.
It's a total cluster.
So are the rates doubling?
Any other changes?
Still free after 5?
What are the rumors?
Quote from: CoffeeBean on July 21, 2010, 09:36:49 PM
The electronic meters downtown are a complete mess. Some work, some don't. Some take debit cards, some don't. Some meters advertise 2 hours while the sign directly overhead advertises 1 hour. Some meters advertise 1 hour while the sign directly above advertises 2 hours. The arrow buttons that allow the consumer to change the time requested do not work, i.e. if using a debit card on a 2 hour meter, you have one choice - 2 hours. Some meters with a balance of time will take your money without adding any time, others will.
It's a total cluster.
Yep.
The first traffic light is on display at Greenfield Village in Dearborne, Michigan. The first red light camera may soon debute there one day to.
Quote from: sauerkraut on January 14, 2014, 02:17:02 PM
The first traffic light is on display at Greenfield Village in Dearborne, Michigan. The first red light camera may soon debute there one day to.
Great