Oh! Happy day!
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1422565120100614
65% to 75% on fund managers.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 15, 2010, 07:57:58 AM
Oh! Happy day!
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1422565120100614
65% to 75% on fund managers.
You might want to re-read that.
QuoteThe legislation's so-called carried interest tax proposal would require fund managers to pay the much higher ordinary income tax rate on a majority of their income from managing investors' money.
The Senate version would tax 65 percent of fund managers' income at the higher rate. A tougher House version would tax 75 percent at ordinary income rates.
Currently, they only pay a 15 percent capital gains tax rate on this income, while ordinary income is taxed at a maximum of 35 percent. The top tax rate is set to rise to 39.6 percent in 2011, the year this legislation would take effect.
A trip down memory lane..Reid says paying income taxes is voluntary:
Quote from: guido911 on June 19, 2010, 10:48:30 AM
A trip down memory lane..Reid says paying income taxes is voluntary:
As an attorney who regularly parses words, I'd think you could understand what he's saying, in a legal sense.
Quote from: nathanm on June 19, 2010, 01:36:54 PM
As an attorney who regularly parses words, I'd think you could understand what he's saying, in a legal sense.
You cannot be serious.
More Reid gems that I guess in a legal sense I do not understand
36,000 lost jobs is good:
The war is lost:
Smelly tourists:
No Negro dialect:
Quote from: guido911 on June 19, 2010, 02:09:59 PM
You cannot be serious.
Yeah, I can't be serious. I'm having to point out to an attorney that the definition one finds for a word or phrase in Black's is often quite different than colloquial use or what one might find in the OED. That's just ridiculous on its face.
In one sense, all taxes are voluntary. You can choose not to engage in behavior that will result in a tax being assessed. However, what Reid (and the IRS) mean is what they've meant since 1913: you compute the amount owed and file your return yourself, rather than it being done for you.
Perhaps you should look up the word "voluntary" in an early 1900s dictionary.
You might also note that I'm not defending the stupid things Reid has said, I'm excoriating your completely asinine interpretation of something he said that wasn't actually stupid.
Quote from: nathanm on June 19, 2010, 04:51:37 PM
Yeah, I can't be serious. I'm having to point out to an attorney that the definition one finds for a word or phrase in Black's is often quite different than colloquial use or what one might find in the OED. That's just ridiculous on its face.
In one sense, all taxes are voluntary. You can choose not to engage in behavior that will result in a tax being assessed. However, what Reid (and the IRS) mean is what they've meant since 1913: you compute the amount owed and file your return yourself, rather than it being done for you.
Perhaps you should look up the word "voluntary" in an early 1900s dictionary.
You might also note that I'm not defending the stupid things Reid has said, I'm excoriating your completely asinine interpretation of something he said that wasn't actually stupid.
Nathann channeling Nixon from Futurama:
http://theinfosphere.org/Pain_Monster
It's OK, this thread was started by a lack of reading comprehension, so it's not like you're the only one.
The accepted meaning of words change over time. Otherwise I wouldn't have to put the word real in front of trolley so people won't think I mean that bus thing.
Quote from: nathanm on June 19, 2010, 01:36:54 PM
As an attorney who regularly parses words, I'd think you could understand what he's saying, in a legal sense.
You mean like:
Which meaning of "is" are you referring to?
Quote from: Conan71 on June 20, 2010, 10:35:48 AM
You mean like:
Which meaning of "is" are you referring to?
No. As far as I know there's only one accepted meaning of the word "is," although there may be colloquial uses I'm not aware of. The word "voluntary" has quite a few different definitions.
People in the public eye should probably not use obscure meanings of words or technical jargon when speaking to the general public or if those speeches are expected to get to the general public.
Quote from: nathanm on June 20, 2010, 02:50:25 PM
No. As far as I know there's only one accepted meaning of the word "is," although there may be colloquial uses I'm not aware of. The word "voluntary" has quite a few different definitions.
Please enlighten us to the meanings that deviate from free choice. Apparently I need to update my dictionary.
Quote from: nathanm on June 19, 2010, 04:51:37 PM
Perhaps you should look up the word "voluntary" in an early 1900s dictionary.
Don't have one, but thank goodness we have you around here sine you apparently know the definition from that time period. However, since neither Reid, when he made the statement, and I were not living in the early 1900s, I kinda doubt he was using that definition. Do yourself a favor before you embarrass yourself further. Look at the video again, Reid attempts to change the subject several times in order to dodge the question, that being that payment of taxes is not voluntary and is instead mandatory under pain of penalty or incarceration. Period. The notion that payment of taxes is "voluntary" simply because a person can choose the method in which they pay taxes (in order to avoid punishment) is is so absurd and disingenuous that the fact that you bought into it speaks volumes as to your credibility.
Quote from: guido911 on June 21, 2010, 08:19:03 AM
Don't have one, but thank goodness we have you around here sine you apparently know the definition from that time period. However, since neither Reid, when he made the statement, and I were not living in the early 1900s, I kinda doubt he was using that definition. Do yourself a favor before you embarrass yourself further. Look at the video again, Reid attempts to change the subject several times in order to dodge the question, that being that payment of taxes is not voluntary and is instead mandatory under pain of penalty or incarceration. Period. The notion that payment of taxes is "voluntary" simply because a person can choose the method in which they pay taxes (in order to avoid punishment) is is so absurd and disingenuous that the fact that you bought into it speaks volumes as to your credibility.
When the income tax originated in this country, it was called the "voluntary income tax." Face it, your smear was baseless.
Quote from: nathanm on June 21, 2010, 08:57:00 AM
When the income tax originated in this country, it was called the "voluntary income tax." Face it, your smear was baseless.
Oh well, since it was "called" that, I guess that makes it so. So I guess "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and our invasion was hugely successful since we did free the Iraqi people from Hussein (meh, what WMDs).
(http://www.prprescriptions.com.php5-15.websitetestlink.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/dig.png)
I hear the distinct scraping sound of moving goal posts.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 21, 2010, 09:03:34 AM
I hear the distinct scraping sound of moving goal posts.
My goal posts haven't moved, thanks. I've said all along that Reid's usage was correct. It is correct. Not common, but correct.
Quote from: nathanm on June 21, 2010, 09:08:48 AM
My goal posts haven't moved, thanks. I've said all along that Reid's usage was correct. It is correct. Not common, but correct.
If you built a dictionary on all of the words that Congress used to give legitimacy to the legislation they originate, no word would have meaning.
You bring up a great point. George Orwell once said "If thought corrupt language, language can corrupt thought." Politics is very good at using words as weapons, and politicians do this in many ways. The victims are usually the young and the stupid.
Nomenclature can make a very evil concept seem relatively inert or even attractive. I see this a lot with young people fresh out of school, willing to adopt political philosophies because the language used sounds so diverse and inclusive.
We all use words to our advantage. After all, they are tools. I think good men value the meaning of words. Evil men change that meaning to fit their agenda.
Words be nimble, words be quick,
Words resemble walking sticks,
Plant them and they will grow,
Watch them as they waver so. - Jim Morrison
Quote from: Gaspar on June 21, 2010, 09:36:21 AM
I think good men value the meaning of words. Evil men change that meaning to fit their agenda.
What you're not getting is that the "voluntary income tax" is not a change in the meaning of the word "voluntary." The word was used with that specific meaning prior to the income tax. That it is now an obscure meaning does not change that fact.
Quote from: nathanm on June 21, 2010, 09:42:52 AM
What you're not getting is that the "voluntary income tax" is not a change in the meaning of the word "voluntary." The word was used with that specific meaning prior to the income tax. That it is now an obscure meaning does not change that fact.
Exactly, so there's no need to use it. I haven't heard a politician in the last 20 years invoke the whole name of that bill in speaking except to get a laugh. Everyone simply calls it "income tax."
Invoking the name "voluntary income tax" today, is as or more insulting than it was in 1913.
I do get your point Nate. I just think you should call a spade a spade, even if the government wants to call it a progressive metallic economic stimulus device.
Quote from: nathanm on June 21, 2010, 09:42:52 AM
What you're not getting is that the "voluntary income tax" is not a change in the meaning of the word "voluntary." The word was used with that specific meaning prior to the income tax. That it is now an obscure meaning does not change that fact.
Why pray-tell would he use an archaic connotation of the word in contemporary discourse?
You sure go to great lengths to defend total morons.
Nathan must have a program that is taking a really long time to compile, or whatever it would do that gives him time to research things that most of us don't have the time to do.
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 21, 2010, 12:07:27 PM
Nathan must have a program that is taking a really long time to compile, or whatever it would do that gives him time to research things that most of us don't have the time to do.
Looking up a word in a dictionary takes about 5 seconds. The power of computers, my friend. ;)
Quote from: nathanm on June 21, 2010, 08:03:37 PM
Looking up a word in a dictionary takes about 5 seconds. The power of computers, my friend. ;)
You've done a lot more "looking up" than a few words in an on-line dictionary. I don't always agree with your analysis though.