One of my installers was crossing 44 going west last night at Lewis right as the hole was giving way. He said the car in front of him had the rear end bounce up, and he hit something that felt like going over a parking lot concrete stop.
He drives a 2010 Ford traverse van and says that he really cant see any damage done. Got lucky I guess.
Isn't this where they've been doing some re-routing of drainage lines for the widening?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100603_11_0_Anover723008
What could ever give them the idea that excavation work was going on directly at this spot? (note the background)
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20100603_NX223_79C4_9.jpg)
Quote from: sgrizzle on June 03, 2010, 11:07:12 AM
What could ever give them the idea that excavation work was going on directly at this spot? (note the background)
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20100603_NX223_79C4_9.jpg)
I like the 11 of the 14 standing there...waiting to burst into action.
Is it just me or are there a lot of men standing around doing nothing?
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2010, 11:16:03 AM
Is it just me or are there a lot of men standing around doing nothing?
That was my first thought when I saw this picture.
Quote from: guido911 on June 03, 2010, 12:32:08 PM
That was my first thought when I saw this picture.
Gubmint project efficiency right there.
Quote from: sgrizzle on June 03, 2010, 11:07:12 AM
What could ever give them the idea that excavation work was going on directly at this spot?
Look at kotv's aerials for a painfully obvious "ah-ha" moment.
Quote from: patric on June 03, 2010, 01:41:03 PM
Look at kotv's aerials for a painfully obvious "ah-ha" moment.
'
can't find them
Did someone say sinkhole? http://news.discovery.com/earth/guatemala-sinkhole.html
(http://news.discovery.com/earth/2010/06/01/sink-hole-825x550.jpg)
Yeah, we are kinda lame when you see that.
Quote from: Trogdor on June 03, 2010, 02:24:36 PM
Yeah, we are kinda lame when you see that.
Lame or not, I was stuck in traffic for quiet a while because of this. After staring at the back of a semi for about 30 minutes, finally decided to turn on the radio. When they finally reported on it, all they were reporting was that something happened, and traffic was stopped for eastbound, and they were not sure about westbound (we were going westbound). By the time we got off the highway (good thing about the construction is they have plenty of dirt "exits" right now) and circled around the area they finally started saying that it was a sink hole. Of course, the first thing that came to mind was the image of the one in Guatemala.
Quote from: Townsend on June 03, 2010, 11:14:27 AM
I like the 11 of the 14 standing there...waiting to burst into action.
Pockets should not be allowed on a city work site!
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2010, 11:16:03 AM
Is it just me or are there a lot of men standing around doing nothing?
Ah that is typical of a crew working for the city. That is known in many circles as "top heavy" administrators. As noted two men are working, two men are supporting the brooms (some one applied for a patent on stand alone brooms)
From the picture PW could just call it a detention pond and build a bypass around it and get some more of that promise federal money being given away. Unemployment is down, seems production is down also.
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3614/tigerhole.jpg)
Quote from: TURobY on June 03, 2010, 02:20:26 PM
Did someone say sinkhole? http://news.discovery.com/earth/guatemala-sinkhole.html
(http://news.discovery.com/earth/2010/06/01/sink-hole-825x550.jpg)
That's not a sink hole.
That's a missile silo ;)
Quote from: Townsend on June 03, 2010, 11:14:27 AM
I like the 11 of the 14 standing there...waiting to burst into action.
Yeah, it couldn't be that they're waiting on the folks qualified to screed the concrete to finish their job so they can get started on their own. Don't you know that every task can be done by every person?
I think next time one of my clients has a computer problem and they're standing around waiting for me to finish fixing it I'll complain about inefficiency in private companies.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2010, 03:19:14 PM
That's not a sink hole.
That's a missile silo ;)
I had the same though. I didn't know we had Titan Missiles in Central America.
Quote from: nathanm on June 03, 2010, 05:19:14 PM
Yeah, it couldn't be that they're waiting on the folks qualified to screed the concrete to finish their job so they can get started on their own. Don't you know that every task can be done by every person?
I think next time one of my clients has a computer problem and they're standing around waiting for me to finish fixing it I'll complain about inefficiency in private companies.
Yeah, because I'm sure that there isn't anything any single one of the other 11 could be doing.
Oh, and it's not exactly an accurate discription since you are fixing what the person needs to do their job.
Seem that is in the area where DOT made some core drills and found out the paving company fail to secure the sub surface base before laying the road. Seems that one of the city commissioners may have had an interest in the paving company who changed it's name but not it's operations.
Quote from: custosnox on June 03, 2010, 06:03:03 PM
Oh, and it's not exactly an accurate discription since you are fixing what the person needs to do their job.
Unless you know what those other guys' jobs are, you don't know whether the description is accurate or not.
Funny ... I drove over that portion of I-44 nearly every day for months and noted that there was a significant dip in the road there.
Methinks this sinkhole problem had been simmering for a long time.
Quote from: nathanm on June 03, 2010, 05:19:14 PM
Yeah, it couldn't be that they're waiting on the folks qualified to screed the concrete to finish their job so they can get started on their own. Don't you know that every task can be done by every person?
I think next time one of my clients has a computer problem and they're standing around waiting for me to finish fixing it I'll complain about inefficiency in private companies.
Many, many , many moons ago I was in road construction. They have other things they can do and they know it.
I was a shovel/broom stand myself. I'm sure I was talked about the same way when I was in panther stance.
The uplifting sun-shiney statements thrown at me from vehicles whizzing by made me aware of the wonderful attitude and care people feel for street crews.
Quote from: nathanm on June 03, 2010, 09:34:35 PM
Unless you know what those other guys' jobs are, you don't know whether the description is accurate or not.
You are just in full apologist mode this week. And if one of the workers happened to be here illegally and "borrowed" someone's SSN for awhile, it's just a minor PITA, right?
I can't see all of their faces, but it seems that the men actually working have far better tans than the guys just standing around with their hands in their pockets.
Perhaps we should reduce city staff by eliminating the workers without tans? :-\
Quote from: Gaspar on June 04, 2010, 10:54:43 AM
I can't see all of their faces, but it seems that the men actually working have far better tans than the guys just standing around with their hands in their pockets.
Perhaps we should reduce city staff by eliminating the workers without tans? :-\
Only problem with that is that they are not city workers, they are contract workers. So it's really the companies resources that are being wasted here when you think about it.
Oh, and I don't think those are tans...
Quote from: custosnox on June 04, 2010, 11:47:43 AM
Only problem with that is that they are not city workers, they are contract workers. So it's really the companies resources that are being wasted here when you think about it.
Oh, and I don't think those are tans...
No, those companies bill for all those wasted resources. The city pays for it. Actually, I believe it's an ODOT issue in this case, not a CoT Public Works issue though that's not any better.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 04, 2010, 11:55:11 AM
No, those companies bill for all those wasted resources. The city pays for it. Actually, I believe it's an ODOT issue in this case, not a CoT Public Works issue though that's not any better.
I was always under the impression that the contractors get paid "per job" as determined by the bid, not how much it ends up costing them plus their cut.
Quote from: custosnox on June 04, 2010, 12:04:23 PM
I was always under the impression that the contractors get paid "per job" as determined by the bid, not how much it ends up costing them plus their cut.
...and they budget in all the people holding up brooms & shovels in their bid. There's also change orders where contractors can allow for cost over-runs on certain projects, and it's possible an emergency job like that was simply a T & M (Time & Materials).
In Missouri they get paid for the job plus a huge bonus/penalty structure for speed. I've seen them widen a mile of street overnight (they also get paid more for working at night and clearing the cones for daytime traffic).
Quote from: Gaspar on June 04, 2010, 03:25:26 PM
In Missouri they get paid for the job plus a huge bonus/penalty structure for speed. I've seen them widen a mile of street overnight (they also get paid more for working at night and clearing the cones for daytime traffic).
Same in OK.
One of the companies just recently was working on two projects. They removed the men on the 81st and Yale location to work on the other location West of town to complete it quickly. They made the bonus for speed on the the West location and then when they fell behind on the 81st location they blamed it on surprise utilities that just popped up and asked to have the fines waived.
(http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/96722/2/istockphoto_96722-orange-construction-traffic-barrels.jpg)
I have a fun game I like to play. Those orange drums are about $40 each. $15 extra with the light. When I drive by a large road project I like to count and multiply by $55.
I bet Tulsa has a few million dollars tied up in those.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 04, 2010, 04:26:16 PM
(http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/96722/2/istockphoto_96722-orange-construction-traffic-barrels.jpg)
I have a fun game I like to play. Those orange drums are about $40 each. $15 extra with the light. When I drive by a large road project I like to count and multiply by $55.
I bet Tulsa has a few million dollars tied up in those.
Those are leased by the contractors.....
Ahhh...the lovely irony. Guys in offices, posting on company time, on company computers, while their secretaries are actually doing most of their work, complaining about guys in hard hats leaning on shovels waiting for their task to be performed.
Any of you jamokes ever do concrete work? Each of those guys has a separate task that requires their particular skill or education at a particular time. Some of them are engineers who are checking the quality of the product, the temperature and other criteria to judge drying time and strength. Some of them were likely inspectors. I imagine some of them were sent to figure out what exactly happened and who was responsible. A few of them were likely waiting to clean up tools. Most likely one was the driver of the cement truck. By the time that pic was taken a lot of hard work had taken place just to make it ready for pouring.
You saw a picture that fit a pre-concieved myth and gleefully used your wit and company assets to make fun. But it was funny.
I've operated a shovel. I won't deny those guys a break.
One could believe that the work was being preformed under emergency repair that is on a cost plus basis. The more specialists that are on the job waiting for their time to perform their special job increases the final profit to the chosen contractor.
In the final bottom line the kingdom of the orange barrels could be contributed to a city of 300,000 people raising millions of dollars to elect a strong mayor.
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 05, 2010, 10:23:37 AM
I've operated a shovel. I won't deny those guys a break.
+1
(Especially after literally digging out a ditch a few days ago ...)
Quote from: shadows on June 05, 2010, 01:40:06 PM
One could believe that the work was being preformed under emergency repair that is on a cost plus basis. The more specialists that are on the job waiting for their time to perform their special job increases the final profit to the chosen contractor.
In the final bottom line the kingdom of the orange barrels could be contributed to a city of 300,000 people raising millions of dollars to elect a strong mayor.
Usual nonsense. Perhaps you would prefer they eliminated the engineers, the testing and the inspectors and do it on a Monday-Friday, 8:00am-4:30pm timetable?
Quote from: rwarn17588 on June 05, 2010, 01:49:59 PM
+1
(Especially after literally digging out a ditch a few days ago ...)
Those miles of orange barrels I assumed were the orange barrel stand-ins for those who were going to show up and do some work in the future. The orange barrel cost only about ½ as much as workers making the minimum wage.
Reminds me when they barricaded the intersection at 41st and Lynn Lane Road causing a three mile detour for three weeks. No work was being done so I walked down to the intersection where a police women was writing tickets to those who drove around the barricade. A contractor drove up and I ask him how long would it take to fix the road. He said one day. I ask him if the intersection needed to be closed for the previous three weeks. His answer was no, but PW wanted to get the citizens that used the road to be aware it was to be closed for a day.
Quote from: waterboy on June 05, 2010, 03:27:47 PM
Usual nonsense. Perhaps you would prefer they eliminated the engineers, the testing and the inspectors and do it on a Monday-Friday, 8:00am-4:30pm timetable?
With all those high priced inspectors and supervisor the road fell in because of the underlay supporting the the roadway. On the job training incomplete?
Quote from: shadows on June 05, 2010, 03:41:39 PM
With all those high priced inspectors and supervisor the road fell in because of the underlay supporting the the roadway. On the job training incomplete?
Not exactly accurate. My understanding is that the water pipes crisscrossing under the roadway had been damaged earlier. This caused erosion of the bed and the collapse of the road. The road wasn't intended to span a sinkhole. Wouldn't have mattered how well inspected the roadway was.
Why do people like you hate laborers so much? We have become a society that belittles physical labor and it does us no good.
Quote from: waterboy on June 05, 2010, 04:42:30 PM
Not exactly accurate. My understanding is that the water pipes crisscrossing under the roadway had been damaged earlier. This caused erosion of the bed and the collapse of the road. The road wasn't intended to span a sinkhole. Wouldn't have mattered how well inspected the roadway was.
Why do people like you hate laborers so much? We have become a society that belittles physical labor and it does us no good.
Why do you catalogue one as being anti-labor when they are pointing out the struggling of the working poor? My heart bleeds for those on SS who has seen the food price increase more than 20% in the last two years while they have not had a COL increase. Think of the children where over 25% require food stamps to be able to eat. Who is being robbed when they are assessed $15,000 a month to pay single city employees?
Back to the sink hole and such noble justification for the roadway sinking because core drilling was not made and precautions taken as the city in undermined with sub surface prior mining voids. It could be only a short time until Tulsa joins the ghost town of Pitcher.