ANOTHER new downtown development, this time to one of my favorite buildings:
http://119downtown.com/
(http://119downtown.com/images/ResidencesPhotoHomePage.jpg)
NW Corner of 6th and Cincinatti, across from the possible new Martini Lounge.
Oooh that's one of my favorites also. That granite exterior is posh.
So it's the Philtower Lofts people, hm? Strong work.
Cool project. River City has done a great job with the Philtower lofts and are capable of pulling this off. They should put a small pool in that courtyard space.
Excellent!
And they are actually under renovation not just talking about it, or so it seems in this clip: http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/downtown-building-to-get-makeover%2C-and-soon-you-can-own-a-piece-of-it.
How many units does that make under construction? There are quite some planned but a good few actually in the make.
119Downtown with 72 'for sale' units
Mayo Building: 67 for rent units
Mayo Hotel: 70 for rent units
Brickhuggers 16 unit conversion at Detroit/Archer
Micah Alexanders got a few going over at 3rd/Kenosha
1st St. lofts - the monumental conversion (how many brick washed units?)
Is Wilkins/Sharp 67 units going at 6th/Boston?
There's planned residential over on 2nd/Greenwood, Kevin Stephens over in the Brady, the residential planned on the block across from the BOK, a project talked about by Greenwood Development Authority, Tribune addition.
This in addition to the existing housing stock.
Oooh yay! Glad someone is saving the ARCO building. Actually working on a painting with a combination of its art deco panels in it right now lol.
And yes, this brings the number of new residences to around 300, with plenty more proposals stirring around out there to boot. Like I have pointed out before, if all the stuff that is going in downtown right now were new development of the suburban type in some south Tulsa field somewhere, people would say that part of town was hopping. What we are seeing is the equivalent of a couple new neighborhoods with over 300 new homes, the equivalent of new "strip malls" with....numerous new shops, art galleries, gyms, and restaurants, a new ballpark, new businesses and office buildings, new arena, college expansion, church expansion, new parks and a memorial, several museum proposals and expansions, fancy street-scaping, couple new hotels, etc.
All those naysayers are wrong when they try and say there is not much development going on downtown and all the revitalization efforts are useless and downtown will continue to stagnate. It may not "look" like it to the casual observer, other than the ballpark and arena, but these adaptive reuses of buildings that are already there, are developments just as real as their new, suburban style, counterparts are.
I have been saying that 2014 will be downtowns year. The time when a lot of projects are done and enough infill has happened such that our dead and dying downtown will have been transformed into something vibrant and alive. I may have been a little too pessimistic. We may get there sooner.
I'm happy to see the rehab projects really rolling. Wondering when denser, new construction projects will start showing up.
This is certainly great news. Hawkins is known to be a penny pincher, so I hope they do these right and they are marketable.
Looks like we will finally get to see how the market bears for sale units.
Quote from: rdj on May 26, 2010, 07:06:42 AM
This is certainly great news. Hawkins is known to be a penny pincher, so I hope they do these right and they are marketable.
Looks like we will finally get to see how the market bears for sale units.
If they're anything like the Philtower it will be a nice project. I went in one of the Philtower units a few years ago right after they finished and was very impressed.
I remember when Renaissance Uptown apartments were built at 12th & Denver that there were talks to do a phase II on the other (east) side of Denver but obviously that never happened. The small projects that we have completed and proposed downtown are great but there also needs to be a few larger projects. They could be more urban than Renaissance but something similar, especially in that part of downtown, would be a good addition. If you go to Dallas and Austin many of their young professionals, the ones just out of college, live in these urban apartment complexes with pools, parking garage, etc. in and around the downtown area. Tulsa needs both types of residential development.
Quote from: rdj on May 26, 2010, 07:06:42 AM
This is certainly great news. Hawkins is known to be a penny pincher, so I hope they do these right and they are marketable.
Looks like we will finally get to see how the market bears for sale units.
Aren't the philtower units (by the same company) for sale?
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 26, 2010, 08:19:46 AM
Aren't the philtower units (by the same company) for sale?
I believe they are rentals.
this thread makes me laugh. You guys get sucked in every single time. (I love that about you, by the way.)
how many of these do they have to "pre-sell" before the project starts????
Has anyone around here tried to finance a condo lately?
Holy crap. Did you see the friggin' homeowners dues (that don't include your property tax)? .41 a foot per month. That is 410 bones a month on 1000 square foot apartment.
I know. I know. Debbie Downer.
That building is awesome though...fabulous lobby.
Quote from: Kenosha on May 26, 2010, 09:13:48 AM
this thread makes me laugh. You guys get sucked in every single time. (I love that about you, by the way.)
how many of these do they have to "pre-sell" before the project starts????
Has anyone around here tried to finance a condo lately?
Holy crap. Did you see the friggin' homeowners dues (that don't include your property tax)? .41 a foot per month. That is 410 bones a month on 1000 square foot apartment.
I know. I know. Debbie Downer.
That building is awesome though...fabulous lobby.
I read that: construction to commence after a certain amount of pre-sale however the video shows interior construction. Assuming that was shot in the building they're investing something into the rehabilitation already?
You know me (Mr. Optimism ;) ). I'm a total sucker for someone else's good news about reinvestment in the core...except when it's someone attempting to redevelop the whole East End.
On the homeowner dues. I missed that part but isn't that on par with Central Park?
Quote from: Kenosha on May 26, 2010, 09:13:48 AM
this thread makes me laugh. You guys get sucked in every single time. (I love that about you, by the way.)
how many of these do they have to "pre-sell" before the project starts????
Has anyone around here tried to finance a condo lately?
Holy crap. Did you see the friggin' homeowners dues (that don't include your property tax)? .41 a foot per month. That is 410 bones a month on 1000 square foot apartment.
I know. I know. Debbie Downer.
That building is awesome though...fabulous lobby.
That likely includes parking and "gym membership"
Quote from: sgrizzle on May 26, 2010, 01:15:45 PM
That likely includes parking and "gym membership"
If they added a pool in that courtyard, plus parking and the gym, that would be worth it, IMO.
Quote from: OurTulsa on May 26, 2010, 12:44:36 PM
On the homeowner dues. I missed that part but isn't that on par with Central Park?
My friend recently looked into buying a condo at Central Park and it was around $400 a month including all bills (internet, tv, water, electric, trash, parking, gym, etc.).
Any condo development is going to have at least a 50% pre-sell requirement before financing is available. I think 60% is becoming standard now.
River City Development has met with FHA and plan on the units being FHA eligible, meaning you could purchase the units with very little money down. However, the units will average ~$300k, but some will be less and others will be three times that amount.. I understand RCD is going to put about a $1mm into the project up front and hope they sell. They are constructing a model to show prospective buyers and won't start development until they have 40-45 pre-sold.
Floyd is correct, the new Fannie Mae guidelines will not consider a loan to purchase a condo "conforming" until a certain percentage of the units in a building are sold. This means that the mass majority of lenders will not make a traditional mortgage loan to a buyer until the condo development is full.
This scenario is playing out on Cherry Street & the lofts at 18th & Boston. It affects any multi-family complex with for sale units.
The way a project like this gets financed is that the developer signs a contract on the building and pays an option. He has a negotiated time frame to sell the idea to enough buyers so they can get financing. Once he has the right percentage pre-sold he takes the building and the contracts to a lender and they take both as collateral on the loan.
They're doing at least one thing better than previous downtown residential conversions: advertising. All the first-floor windows have an advertising wrap on them, and there's a pretty big banner (several floors high) on the upper levels. Plus I've seen some signs out on the sidewalk out front.
I previously complained how none of our conversions make it obvious there's progress, like you see in other cities with giant 8-story high banner proclaiming new lofts coming. These people are doing it right.
Quote from: TheTed on June 19, 2010, 12:11:13 PM
They're doing at least one thing better than previous downtown residential conversions: advertising. All the first-floor windows have an advertising wrap on them, and there's a pretty big banner (several floors high) on the upper levels. Plus I've seen some signs out on the sidewalk out front.
I previously complained how none of our conversions make it obvious there's progress, like you see in other cities with giant 8-story high banner proclaiming new lofts coming. These people are doing it right.
I saw that this morning going through downtown. It looks exciting.
Yes, I enjoy their lack of subtlety.
I have friends that have reserved their condo. I'll ask what they've been told about completion of the project.
Talked to my friend tonight about their condo. Their looking at about 18 months until completion.
The model unit is now open, looks very nice:
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20100909_E1LIVINGROOM0909.jpg)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20100909_32_E1_CUTLIN709503 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20100909_32_E1_CUTLIN709503)
I'm sad to report that this projects is dead.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20110713_32_E1_CUTLIN903302&allcom=1
It would have been an amazing project. I desperately hope this building does not see the wrecking ball. :'(
Quote from: ZYX on July 14, 2011, 09:57:05 PM
I'm sad to report that this projects is dead.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20110713_32_E1_CUTLIN903302&allcom=1
It would have been an amazing project. I desperately hope this building does not see the wrecking ball. :'(
They took the signs down a few weeks ago. Price was too high for the market right now.
This is a large bummer.
¿What's the status with the Enterprise building?
We need lots more affordable housing downtown. I think rents under $1000 per month would occupy very quickly.
Quote from: carltonplace on July 15, 2011, 08:01:49 AM
We need lots more affordable housing downtown. I think rents under $1000 per month would occupy very quickly.
I agree with the concept. Is it possible/probable to renovate or build new something someone would want to rent for $1000/mo? Until someone could truly live downtown without a car, that number may need to be even a bit lower.
I keep wondering if someone could take one of those old buildings and put in the basics on a few of the floors to start with. All I would need is bare floor and ceilings, I don't even need sheetrock on the walls just outlets here and there. A bathroom with the cheapest fixtures (can upgrade and add my own as I can afford them) bare essentials kitchen... then let me do the rest. Get those rented for a cheap price then set a few general ground rules for what you can do to remodel them. Then work on selling the other floors as higher priced, more finished out models once you get some income.
I can imagine that there would be some big expenses at first so the lower price points may not work out (electrical and plumbing), but still it seems as though there should be some way to make a go of it bit by bit. Get the ground floor rented out, you could even do the second and third floors without an elevator to start with. Give me a good deal and I will finish out the apartment myself and dont care about walking up a few stairs. Get a little income coming in, get a loan for phase2 and use the money from the first floors to get a few more floors done, then build up to phase3, then upgrade the first parts later and so on.
Artist, all great ideas. Unfortunately, barely finished buildings scare bankers. They want something that if they have to take it back from the developer that they can turn around in a reasonable amount of time.
This brings to mind a question after Grizzle made the comment that the units are overpriced for the market right now. Is there a certain price threshold that someone will think: "For $xxxx a month, I'd rather own a small home in midtown than deal with the 'inconvenience' of living in the middle of downtown"? Are we really sure it's a pricing vs. market issue. Are the price ranges really appealing to a demographic which wants to live in a re-purposed building in the first place?
Do you need the other livable amenities like a grocery store before you can entice more people to live in the center of downtown?
What happens now to the people who had deposits? I would assume they get those back, but now what are their other options in downtown?
Just random thoughts I thought I'd throw out for discussion. For $300 to $900K, I personally would have no interest in living there. For that kind of money, I want some elbow room.
I have heard they are looking at the possibility of doing apartments now. Remember these are the same developers of the Philtower Lofts and those have been a success.
Conan, I know lots of people in their 20s and 30s that live downtown and love it. They live in places like The Blair or in lofts in old buildings on Cheyenne and the RR (like the Artist described...very spartan), or in garage apartments in Riverview (mine for example) or Childers or Owen.
They want to be downtown and they aren't that picky about the space, they are more concerned about it not being too spendy.
Quote from: carltonplace on July 15, 2011, 09:42:59 AM
Conan, I know lots of people in their 20s and 30s that live downtown and love it. They live in places like The Blair or in lofts in old buildings on Cheyenne and the RR (like the Artist described...very spartan), or in garage apartments in Riverview (mine for example) or Childers or Owen.
They want to be downtown and they aren't that picky about the space, they are more concerned about it not being too spendy.
That's more what I was getting at. Is a $300K to $900K condo simply out of reach or demand of the demographic which actually wants to live in downtown? I wouldn't mind living down there myself, I really should be a perfect candidate: empty nester, travel a fair amount and when I am in town I'm usually either A) working or B) on a bicycle somewhere. I don't have a lot of time to tend a yard or worry about maintenance issues. Fortunately for me, my house has been really trouble-free in terms of maintenance.
The main thing which keeps me out of a condo scenario is I do like the relative independence of not living on top of, below, or a 6" wall from my neighbors. I like having that small plot of land and a place for my pets to be able to roam and do their thing. I lived in Central Park back when it was Center Plaza and it was apartments, I loved living in the CBD. Marriage and children dictated needing something larger.
I think you're right...$300 to $900K is just too high right now, especially in a Tulsa housing market where that kind of cheddar can command a large house (even in Maple Ridge).
I'm not saying that mid to upper level living isn't wanted at all in DT: both The Mayo and Philtower have done well. I know a several of the permanent residents of the Mayo that have large apartments, moved from south Tulsa and don't want to be anywhere else. But they didn't outlay 300K+ to move in.
$200 to $450k is probably the right spot to be at. Of course, I wouldn't want to pay $450k for a living space and then $1k a month in dues for the rest of the time I owned it.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on July 15, 2011, 01:59:58 PM
$200 to $450k is probably the right spot to be at. Of course, I wouldn't want to pay $450k for a living space and then $1k a month in dues for the rest of the time I owned it.
Apparently not since the pre-sell didn't achieve what they needed it to. This isn't NYC and we don't have the sort of income base which will allow a newly-minted college graduate to afford $2000 to $4000 per month for housing.
The kind of people who can afford that are likely well into their 30's or 40's and most likely have kids and pets. Not exactly the right demographic for downtown condo dwellers. At least not in this part of the country.
The Mayo Hotel & Residences is on a waiting list. Last I heard it was about fifteen deep. In addition, the Tribune is building a second phase. Unaware of how the Mayo Building residences are doing. In short, rental units priced a bit above a the going rate in town will lease up.
The new mortgage rules killed this project. A buyer cannot be approved for a traditional (ie Fannie Mae conforming) mortgage loan in a multi-tenant property until at least 50% is occupied or under contract. This is the reason the 119 project was structured as such. It is hard to convince enough people to put money down on a concept that large and foreign to most Tulsans with no promise of every actually living there. This new rule has even affected the projects north of Cherry St. Those "lofts" are considered multi-unit and buyer cannot get traditional financing regardless of the down payment or income levels. They either have to have in-house local bank financing (rare), owner carry (the majority of those projects are bank owned now or the owners are highly leveraged) or pay cash.
Quote from: rdj on July 15, 2011, 02:41:23 PM
The Mayo Hotel & Residences is on a waiting list. Last I heard it was about fifteen deep. In addition, the Tribune is building a second phase. Unaware of how the Mayo Building residences are doing. In short, rental units priced a bit above a the going rate in town will lease up.
The new mortgage rules killed this project. A buyer cannot be approved for a traditional (ie Fannie Mae conforming) mortgage loan in a multi-tenant property until at least 50% is occupied or under contract. This is the reason the 119 project was structured as such. It is hard to convince enough people to put money down on a concept that large and foreign to most Tulsans with no promise of every actually living there. This new rule has even affected the projects north of Cherry St. Those "lofts" are considered multi-unit and buyer cannot get traditional financing regardless of the down payment or income levels. They either have to have in-house local bank financing (rare), owner carry (the majority of those projects are bank owned now or the owners are highly leveraged) or pay cash.
You bring up an excellent point, which is that one of the upsides of the credit bubble is that a lot of that money went to refurbish and renovate downtowns across the country. For a time, it made the New Urbanism movement much more affordable. Now that we've retrenched, though, it's gonna slow down all of our progress. Possibly drastically.
Quote from: rdj on July 15, 2011, 02:41:23 PM
The Mayo Hotel & Residences is on a waiting list. Last I heard it was about fifteen deep. In addition, the Tribune is building a second phase. Unaware of how the Mayo Building residences are doing. In short, rental units priced a bit above a the going rate in town will lease up.
The new mortgage rules killed this project. A buyer cannot be approved for a traditional (ie Fannie Mae conforming) mortgage loan in a multi-tenant property until at least 50% is occupied or under contract. This is the reason the 119 project was structured as such. It is hard to convince enough people to put money down on a concept that large and foreign to most Tulsans with no promise of every actually living there. This new rule has even affected the projects north of Cherry St. Those "lofts" are considered multi-unit and buyer cannot get traditional financing regardless of the down payment or income levels. They either have to have in-house local bank financing (rare), owner carry (the majority of those projects are bank owned now or the owners are highly leveraged) or pay cash.
I think that demonstrates that buying in downtown at the present time is too risky for most, especially that those prices. In the best of times, buying is a leap of faith that Tulsa's downtown dream will become reality. And these are not the best of times, particularly in the housing market. Renting offers many a way to try out urban living to see if they like it and/or to see how downtown develops over the next couple of years. Afterall, most folks living in Tulsa have not lived in a real urban environment and while they might think it will be great, don't really know until they try it. Also, urban living might be great for those single or recently married, but might not be as attractive as those same folks get married or have children. In all these cases, renting is low risk - if you don't like it or as your family changes, you can easily move on. The resale market in downtown is always likely to be much more limited than single family homes, even if you aren't competing with new developments. I would prefer to see developers focus on a variety of apartments and not condos in order to develop the housing stock/market one step at a time.
How is the Mayo Building project coming along? It seems to have dropped off the radar and you don't hear anything about it. Are they done yet? Have many been sold/rented?
Quote from: TheArtist on July 15, 2011, 03:21:21 PM
How is the Mayo Building project coming along? It seems to have dropped off the radar and you don't hear anything about it. Are they done yet? Have many been sold/rented?
From what I've heard they were finished a while ago and are occupied.
I saw 119 Downtown and thought it was a weather report.
I live downtown, and I sure as h--- would not pay big bucks to live here. I toured the Mayo 420 bldg last Mayfest and I was just flabbergasted at the prices.
I can't imagine that many people are wanting to pay $1200/month for a one bedroom. The super nice kitchen is not really a selling point in urban environs. Neither is the extra space.
You live downtown, you eat out a lot (don't care about a spacious kitchen with fancy fixtures/appliances). You don't care about extra space. All you do is work/eat/sleep/go out. When would you enjoy this extravagant living quarters? And if you did want to spend significant time at home, you'd probably choose a residential part of town.
The kind of people who want to live downtown have plenty of options (cherry st/sobo/etc). They're not paying big bucks to live downtown unless they just have money to urinate away, and most don't.
Quote from: TheTed on July 15, 2011, 11:41:27 PM
You live downtown, you eat out a lot (don't care about a spacious kitchen with fancy fixtures/appliances). You don't care about extra space. All you do is work/eat/sleep/go out. When would you enjoy this extravagant living quarters?
That sounds a lot like when I lived in a college dorm and in the 4-man-room Navy barracks.
Madison Ave, homebuilders, commodity salesman and the government have done a masterful job of convincing America that owning a home is the only way to achieve wealth & prosperity. I would assert that the more transient nature of today's society has altered this dream. For many owning a home is one of the worst things they'll ever do.
Quote from: rdj on July 16, 2011, 07:03:37 PM
For many owning a home is one of the worst things they'll ever do.
I think that every time I walk into Home Depot.
Very true! I like working on my home, mowing, gardening, etc. And I save the money needed if the ac goes out. But tons of people don't- they just know that owning a home is what they are supposed to do.
My neighbor moved from downtown and is NEVER in his yard, travels a lot, hates mowing, can't fix a thing, and could care less about having 2 bedrooms and an extra bathroom that are never used. But he owns a house, so he is a good american.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on July 17, 2011, 09:44:04 AM
My neighbor moved from downtown and is NEVER in his yard, travels a lot, hates mowing, can't fix a thing, and could care less about having 2 bedrooms and an extra bathroom that are never used. But he owns a house, so he is a good american.
I wouldn't call us neighbors..
Quote from: cannon_fodder on July 17, 2011, 09:44:04 AM
Very true! I like working on my home, mowing, gardening, etc. And I save the money needed if the ac goes out. But tons of people don't- they just know that owning a home is what they are supposed to do.
My neighbor moved from downtown and is NEVER in his yard, travels a lot, hates mowing, can't fix a thing, and could care less about having 2 bedrooms and an extra bathroom that are never used. But he owns a house, so he is a good american.
When it's 104 that describes most neighbors. I would rather eat Haggis than mow lately.
Quote from: swake on July 17, 2011, 08:23:14 PM
When it's 104 that describes most neighbors. I would rather eat Haggis than mow lately.
Stop watering the lawn, you won't have to mow it
Quote from: Red Arrow on July 17, 2011, 09:13:26 PM
Stop watering the lawn, you won't have to mow it
We are watering ours, and I still only mow once every two weeks or so. It's barely staying green and is about 50% brown. Quite beautiful, actually.....;D
Quote from: ZYX on July 17, 2011, 09:16:02 PM
We are watering ours, and I still only mow once every two weeks or so. It's barely staying green and is about 50% brown. Quite beautiful, actually.....;D
Even after the last rain of 0.6" (a few weeks ago?) the dog raised dust in the back yard when chasing the toy I threw for him. It's dry out. I've been watering the pepper plants and veggie garden but that's all.
I have a friend who was paying $1300 a month for a 700sf apartment, he then upgrade to a two bedroom apartment with 1200sf for $1900. I should also mention that this was in DC, specifically Dupont Circle. He lived less than 1 block from the metro.
The reason downtown living would/should be a little more expensive would be the location and being close to mass transit and night life... and being close to the place you work. I am not 100% sure DT Tulsa is there yet. It is far closer today versus 5 years ago, thanks to the folks who have made the investment and taken the risk. I know it will become more of a destination and a location to live, but I can't grasp that type of financial investment on a portion of a building.
But I do believe in homeownership. I enjoy having a space that is my own. I enjoy improving something. I guess I have drank the Koolaid (Ohhh-yeah)
For a large movement of residential downtown, it needs to be done through apartments with rents at around $1 per square foot. It's clear the market for wide scale high price luxury living isn't there yet. The Mayo and the Philtower lofts are the smaller scale. I think young people are the key through apartment living. Apartments get residents on the outskirts of town with nothing nearby. I think downtown apartment living would be successful at the right price point. Once they move in, then the amenities move in such as grocery stores, more restaurants and cafes. And then I think the market for higher price living may come. Until then, they should focus on apartments. That is my opinion.
A mix of rent apartments and own condos/lofts/townhomeswould be great of course. And I think any of those can get rates better than most other parts of town even now, but as downtown continues to flesh out, it will become more desirable and be able to command higher prices.
I think Tulsa's downtown has a great amount of potential to be a desirable place to live and visit. Though we have lost a lot of its older, pedestrian friendly fabric, there is still a fortuitous amount of that type of quality left in the core. Boston Ave and 5th street are still great streets with the kind of stellar potential other cities could only dream of. If we continue to put in pedestrian friendly buildings, we can have a knock out downtown for a city our size.
If we do high quality, pedestrian friendly infill, that imo can be our "edge" our calling card and ticket to put Tulsa on a more competitive growth trajectory. Being a small city with a high quality urban core, would be a knockout combination. It would make our quality of life very desirable and competitive. We could have better urbanity than cities 2, 3, 5 times our size. People want that quality and are moving to it. We can place oursleves in the postition to capture a chunk of that growth if we are careful, thoughtful and intentional in our development approach. Dallas is bigger for instance, but most of its urban core honestly sucks. If someone could come here and see "Hey, you all have a great city here, it costs less, is beautiful, still has a quieter small town feel very near downtown, yet is so urban and pedestrian friendly in the core... whats not to love!". That could give us one of those competitive edges we are working so hard to find and need.
I have to say that I have been trying to get back to Tulsa for a visit and was hoping to be there for my 30th reunion this summer, but with being pushed out of my job by management and their choice to go to contract employees, I have not been able to make it. I have found myself now in a position that I'm movong to Oregon to help my father who is having health issues. After disscusions with family members in Tulsa, we may be moving our father back to Tulsa for health better health care. I'm in the IT field so my work is faily flexible, and I would love to find an affordable rent option downtown. For me it would be me and my 2 pets (cats) and a place of ~800 sq/ft with a good cooking space would be great. I would enjoy living DT, and would not be one to go out to eat every night. It's too much fun to have freinds over and entertain, but I would visit down town establishments that are within walking distance, or if you could go down to the street and grab a cab or some other form of transportation. I guess that I got spoiled on public transportation in SF, LA, and areas around them, but I have also walked a lot of LA and SF. I hope with the new grocer DT, things continue to grow, and if I find myself moving back home, I will let you guys know.
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 19, 2011, 11:42:42 PM
I have to say that I have been trying to get back to Tulsa for a visit and was hoping to be there for my 30th reunion this summer, but with being pushed out of my job by management and their choice to go to contract employees, I have not been able to make it. I have found myself now in a position that I'm movong to Oregon to help my father who is having health issues. After disscusions with family members in Tulsa, we may be moving our father back to Tulsa for health better health care. I'm in the IT field so my work is faily flexible, and I would love to find an affordable rent option downtown. For me it would be me and my 2 pets (cats) and a place of ~800 sq/ft with a good cooking space would be great. I would enjoy living DT, and would not be one to go out to eat every night. It's too much fun to have freinds over and entertain, but I would visit down town establishments that are within walking distance, or if you could go down to the street and grab a cab or some other
form of transportation. I guess that I got spoiled on public transportation in SF, LA, and areas around them, but I have also walked a lot of LA and SF. I hope with the new grocer DT, things continue to grow, and if I find myself moving back home, I will let you guys know.
I am sorry for your circumstances but am glad that you might be moving back to Tulsa. FYI a 735 sq ft, 1 bedroom apt in the Tribune II is $850 a month. They should be opening in December 2011.
Thanks ZYX, as I said there is no time frame, but this native may be returning. I would love to live DT and be able to walk to a ball game, an Oiler game, Tulsa Shock, or a place to have a pint,grab some pizza, bowl a few frames ( thanks Joe Walsh) I will continue to follow things.
Was just listening to the radio and they said something to the effect that though housing building permits were still down, most of what is being built is apartments and condos as the trend for the shift from suburban growth to urban continues. There are probably close to 100 new homes under construction right now in downtown (and there have been a lot recently finished in the last few years) with more on the way. What other area of Tulsa, or the suburbs, has as many homes going in?
An interesting story I ran accross talking about more families with children starting to move into downtown/urban areas. Which goes to my theory that if you want downtown to really do well, keep children in mind as you zone, put in your infrastructure, and develop.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/125692778.html
some exerpts...
" The number of kids under age 5 living in downtown neighborhoods has tripled since 2000, according to newly released U.S. census figures. ....The rapid growth, coupled with increases in older children as well, is the most telling evidence to date that downtown's swelling population is much more than young professionals and empty nesters. ....The growth, which has converted some condo hallways into the downtown equivalent of suburban cul-de-sacs, promises to reshape the area as developers, businesses and even the city cater to urban tots, urban studies experts say.
Showing downtown's appeal as a place to raise children will attract the talent that is essential for developing industries that offer high-paying jobs, he said. "You can attract the kinds of people who are necessary to run the businesses of the new economy," he said.
Developing a critical mass of children is the first step toward creating more options for parents concerned about schools, he said. That's already happening in the North Loop, where a parent convinced the public school system to establish a neighborhood bus stop for kids attending a nearby elementary school, Frank said.
Condo cul-de-sac in the hall
Across the country, young urban professionals and growing numbers of empty nesters and baby boomers are opting for high-density vertical neighborhoods. .... "
Quote from: TheArtist on July 20, 2011, 06:44:41 PM
" The number of kids under age 5 living in downtown neighborhoods has tripled since 2000, (444 in 2010) according to newly released U.S. census figures. ....
Added a reference point for you from the article. Tripled could have been from 1 to 3 as an extreme example.
Quote from: Red Arrow on July 20, 2011, 07:01:59 PM
Added a reference point for you from the article. Tripled could have been from 1 to 3 as an extreme example.
Thats still an impressive trend for thats just kids UNDER 5 in their downtown. Not many neighborhoods or even square miles in Tulsa's suburbs that would have that many in total, with or without any trend.
Quote from: TheArtist on July 21, 2011, 06:39:50 AM
Thats still an impressive trend for thats just kids UNDER 5 in their downtown. Not many neighborhoods or even square miles in Tulsa's suburbs that would have that many in total, with or without any trend.
I agree it's impressive. I was actually expecting the numbers to be an order of magnitude less.
Well in a few months we will be adding to this trend. We live downtown and my wife is pregnant. We aren't sure of our long term plans, but for right now our intent is to stay downtown as we love it.
Quote from: shaddow on July 21, 2011, 08:42:31 AM
Well in a few months we will be adding to this trend. We live downtown and my wife is pregnant. We aren't sure of our long term plans, but for right now our intent is to stay downtown as we love it.
Congrats Neighbor!!!