http://preview.crkwd.com/plush/
Anyone know who is doing this? Is this a proposal or is it ready to proceed? I think it's a great use of the space. One of my favorite buildings in tulsa. Now let's see something happen with the smith bros abstract building!
Hmmm.... me thinks me knows. Was talking to a friend who was telling me how he was working on this project. Is from Houston, (originally from here) and wanted to bring something a bit more upscale and "family" friendly to Tulsa. He was having some difficulties with a couple of his other businesses, one with some issues with Spirit Bank and their take over of a space they were building out in the Regal Plaza. The guy is super talented and I am sure could create an incredible club in that space, I hope this works out for him. If, its him and he is still working on it lol.
This would be fantastic. I hope it happens.
Awesome. It was only a couple years ago there was literally nothing open after 5pm in that section of downtown. Now we'll have Plush plus Elote (now with a bar), the Gyro place (I've heard it's open Saturdays), the Mod, plus whatever's in that new Marriott Courtyard.
I wish them the best, but Tulsa's success rate for hip cocktail lounges is not good - and this one will be well outside the current successful bar areas.
Quote from: DTowner on May 25, 2010, 03:08:49 PM
I wish them the best, but Tulsa's success rate for hip cocktail lounges is not good - and this one will be well outside the current successful bar areas.
Since I like the stye of it, if I'm back to working by the time it opens, I'll do my best to help its success rate ;)
Quote from: custosnox on May 25, 2010, 03:18:46 PM
Since I like the stye of it, if I'm back to working by the time it opens, I'll do my best to help its success rate ;)
I'll gladly do my part as well, but my efforts haven't been enough to save past endeavors.
Quote from: DTowner on May 25, 2010, 03:31:03 PM
I'll gladly do my part as well, but my efforts haven't been enough to save past endeavors.
ah, but we all do what we can. In the end all we can say is at least we tried
TheArtist>" a bit more upscale and "family" friendly to Tulsa. "
Martini Lounge as family friendly. You have to tell me sometime where you get these "Vegas" style one liners...
Quote from: Rico on May 25, 2010, 05:37:03 PM
TheArtist>" a bit more upscale and "family" friendly to Tulsa. "
Martini Lounge as family friendly. You have to tell me sometime where you get these "Vegas" style one liners...
"Family" as in "Friends of Dorothy" ;)
Quote from: TheArtist on May 26, 2010, 04:46:51 AM
"Family" as in "Friends of Dorothy" ;)
Toto?
(http://rapvolt.net/portfolio/band/img/TOTO-Africa.jpg)
THREAD DRIFT COMPLETE!
It looks like they are taking the whole space. I know the leasing agent was also open to leasing out just the upstairs "tom-tom" room. It is a room accessible by elevator or the upstairs parking lot that was used to entertain bank clients in the buildings heyday. A group was looking at it alone as a lounge. However, it has pretty serious obstacles for parking & ADA compliance. Let's hope this as a whole doesn't have those issues.
As an aside, this is a location that could be greatly affected by the proposal to push the parking meter timeframe back to 8p. I don't believe there are any hourly lots around there, so street parking will be the key. Won't hurt late night business, but could affect the post work happy hour crowd.
There are PSO lots nearby that are not watched past 6 and several empty meterheads in the area. Not to mention, I bet this plan will have plenty of unused space for parking.
It looks to me like a place that is ready-made for valet parking. If DT Tulsa continues to get packed, it's going to need valet services. (And employees who know what they're doing--I valeted at the Mayo over Christmas for a party and they guys just stared at me when I pulled up and got out of my car, until I asked them if they were going to stare at it or park it.)
Quote from: Floyd on May 26, 2010, 08:23:29 AM
It looks to me like a place that is ready-made for valet parking. If DT Tulsa continues to get packed, it's going to need valet services. (And employees who know what they're doing--I valeted at the Mayo over Christmas for a party and they guys just stared at me when I pulled up and got out of my car, until I asked them if they were going to stare at it or park it.)
You get that kind of reaction when you try to valet park a Pacer.
;D
I am sure this group has talked to the ABLE Commission, but I am curious about how they plan to get around the 300' rule. Are they serving food, or is it primarily a bar? The building is perfect for the concept, but it is next to 1st Presbyterian Church, and across the street from a park. Any bar in Tulsa Oklahoma has to be at least 300' away from the property line of a church or a park.
I know, I know. Debbie Downer.
Quote from: Kenosha on May 26, 2010, 09:04:57 AM
Any bar in Tulsa Oklahoma has to be at least 300' away from the property line of a church or a park.
Does that hold true in the CBD?
Quote from: TURobY on May 26, 2010, 09:26:22 AM
Does that hold true in the CBD?
Yup. The long arm of the ABLE Commission knows no boundaries.
It's not a local ordinance. It's a state ordinance.
Example...several people have looked at a bar concepts to go in the empty retail space in the parking garage at 6th and Boston...(same building as the new Greek Restaurant) but it is too close to the new park. ABLE won't allow it. I am sure the folks who put that park down there didn't intend that consequence...it will have the same effect on the Enterprise Building. Whatever goes in on the ground floor of that building will have to be a restaurant/bar.
Quote from: Kenosha on May 26, 2010, 10:05:41 AM
Yup. The long arm of the ABLE Commission knows no boundaries.
It's not a local ordinance. It's a state ordinance.
Example...several people have looked at a bar concepts to go in the empty retail space in the parking garage at 6th and Boston...(same building as the new Greek Restaurant) but it is too close to the new park. ABLE won't allow it. I am sure the folks who put that park down there didn't intend that consequence...it will have the same effect on the Enterprise Building. Whatever goes in on the ground floor of that building will have to be a restaurant/bar.
The Luchador Bar at Elote is not 300' away from the park. What about that? And what will happen to Caz's and Majestic once the Brady park goes in?
Quote from: dsjeffries on May 26, 2010, 01:19:28 PM
The Luchador Bar at Elote is not 300' away from the park. What about that? And what will happen to Caz's and Majestic once the Brady park goes in?
The luchador is a portion of a restaurant where alcohol is served. Technically not a bar.
That's a ridiculous rule. Bars and parks are two things that should be everywhere downtown.
Wasn't the Cellar Dweller less than 300' from that ridiculous excuse for a park, the Plaza of the Americas or something like that?
And isn't that little space with a few benches along Archer just west of Main considered a park? It's gotta be less than 300' from the Downtown Lounge.
Grandfather clauses go a long way when it comes to issues like this.
If something exists before the church or park, it's grandfathered. If you're taking over a liquor establishment to run another you can be grandfathered in with ABLE.
As far as the Martini lounge? I have no idea how that'll work out. Kitchell was able to get around it when he was renting space from a church on Brookside for his bars.
This will have to be a restaurant that happens to have a DJ and a wide variety of martinis.
Quote from: Kenosha on May 26, 2010, 09:04:57 AM
I am sure this group has talked to the ABLE Commission, but I am curious about how they plan to get around the 300' rule. Are they serving food, or is it primarily a bar? The building is perfect for the concept, but it is next to 1st Presbyterian Church, and across the street from a park. Any bar in Tulsa Oklahoma has to be at least 300' away from the property line of a church or a park.
I know, I know. Debbie Downer.
Good point about the church. I had not heard about the restriction regarding parks. Do you have a source for that? I think you might be confusing the 300 foot rule for alcohol with some 300 foot rule regarding tobacco (which does apply to parks).
Quote from: Townsend on May 26, 2010, 02:14:47 PM
Grandfather clauses go a long way when it comes to issues like this.
If something exists before the church or park, it's grandfathered. If you're taking over a liquor establishment to run another you can be grandfathered in with ABLE.
As far as the Martini lounge? I have no idea how that'll work out. Kitchell was able to get around it when he was renting space from a church on Brookside for his bars.
None of the grandfather provisions will help an establishment proposing to convert a drive-through bank into a bar.
Not sure what Brookside property was rented by a church to Kitchell for a bar, but the law covers not properties owned by a church, but just "church property primarily and regularly used for worship services and religious activities".
I tried to find the statute online but couldn't. Do you have a link? I'm curious what it actually says. I know part of it actually deals with the entrance to the establishment. If you're familiar with the Spirit Shop in Norman on Main, that's why their door faces south instead of north towards Main St--if it were on the north side of the building it would be too close to Norman High School.
Quote from: Oil Capital on May 26, 2010, 11:20:35 PM
None of the grandfather provisions will help an establishment proposing to convert a drive-through bank into a bar.
Not sure what Brookside property was rented by a church to Kitchell for a bar, but the law covers not properties owned by a church, but just "church property primarily and regularly used for worship services and religious activities".
Kitchell rented space from the church across from Bruhouse and had several bars at that location. It's a high end furniture store now.
I thought it was funny how forgiving that church was. He must've been paying them a considerable sum.
Quote from: Floyd on May 27, 2010, 07:32:42 AM
I tried to find the statute online but couldn't. Do you have a link? I'm curious what it actually says. I know part of it actually deals with the entrance to the establishment. If you're familiar with the Spirit Shop in Norman on Main, that's why their door faces south instead of north towards Main St--if it were on the north side of the building it would be too close to Norman High School.
I don't have a link right now, but here is the language: Nothing in there about an entrance. It says the measurement is from the nearest property line of the church or school to the nearest perimeter wall of the premises of the "mixed beverage establishment". I had also previously heard about the entrance being key. Is that just a myth?
"ยง37-518.3. Location of mixed beverage establishment, beer and wine establishment, or bottle club.
A. It shall be unlawful for any mixed beverage establishment, beer and wine establishment, or bottle club which has been licensed by the Alcoholic Beverage Laws Enforcement Commission and which has as its main purpose the selling or serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, or retail package store, to be located within three hundred (300) feet of any public or private school or church property primarily and regularly used for worship services and religious activities. The distance indicated in this section shall be
measured from the nearest property line of such public or private school or church to the nearest perimeter wall of the premises of any such mixed beverage establishment, beer and wine establishment, bottle club, or retail package store which has been licensed to sell alcoholic beverages. The provisions of this section shall not apply to mixed beverage establishments, beer and wine establishments, or bottle clubs, which have been licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption or retail package stores prior to November 1, 2000; provided, if at the time of application for license renewal the licensed location has not been in actual operation for a continuous period of more than sixty (60) days, the license shall not be renewed. If any school or church shall be established within three hundred (300) feet of any retail package store, mixed beverage establishment, beer and wine establishment, or bottle club subject to the provisions of this section after such retail package store, mixed beverage establishment, beer and wine establishment, or bottle club has been licensed, the provisions of this section shall not be a deterrent to the renewal of such license if there has not been a lapse of more than sixty (60) days. When any mixed beverage establishment, beer and wine establishment, or bottle club subject to the provisions of this section which has a license to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption or retail package store changes ownership or the operator thereof is changed and such change of ownership results in the same type of business being conducted on the premises, the provisions of this section shall not be a deterrent to the issuance of a license to the new owner or operator if he or she is otherwise qualified."
I'll bet that it was "entrance" once upon a time but borderline stores were moving entrances to get around the requirement so they changed the law. Or it's just a myth ;D
Restaurants are not listed as prohibited, only establishments "which ha[ve] as [their] main purpose the selling or serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises." So Plush will have to be a restaurant with a long martini list, and they'll actually have to sell food. What's the gross receipts required off food? Seem to remember that it's at least 50% to be deemed a restaurant as opposed to "mixed beverage" or "beer and wine" establishment. Maybe less, though.
I don't see anything in there about public parks.
Quote from: Floyd on May 27, 2010, 09:54:22 AM
What's the gross receipts required off food? Seem to remember that it's at least 50% to be deemed a restaurant as opposed to "mixed beverage" or "beer and wine" establishment. Maybe less, though.
That's what it took to allow "under 21" so I'd imagine that's what it'd take to be considered a restaurant.
Anyone else find it ironic that Christian churches serve wine, but no other business around them may do so? :D
Quote from: waterboy on May 27, 2010, 11:44:55 AM
Anyone else find it ironic that Christian churches serve wine, but no other business around them may do so? :D
Well you just can't price them...I'd imagine you can ask for a tithe
This is a non-issue anyway. I just walked through there, and there were people in the building. They are looking to put a design firm in there of some kind or another, not a martini lounge. Hey! At least the building is getting used.
Damn, my liver was getting all excited...
I am more excited about the prospects for a penthouse/rooftop martini lounge at the Mayo.
I never acquired a taste for martinis or gin.
The guy doing the doors for this place confirmed it will be a Martini Lounge.
Unless it's a super secret development and he's just being told he's doing the doors for a martini lounge...
Quote from: Townsend on July 01, 2010, 02:11:28 PM
The guy doing the doors for this place confirmed it will be a Martini Lounge.
Unless it's a super secret development and he's just being told he's doing the doors for a martini lounge...
Sounds like Darth Vader's conversation with his loan officer:
http://www.maniacworld.com/darth-vader-wants-a-loan.html
any updates on this place!?
Patience
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/Lensman03/PatienceGrasshopper.jpg)
ABLE finally gave them the news they didn't want...they're too close to the church to the south. They talked about converting it to some sort of quasi-restuarant / martini bar(at night). I haven't seen either of the brothers lately or seen any work on the property so don't know the latest and greatest. Hopefully they didn't give up on the property.
Quote from: OurTulsa on August 11, 2010, 12:45:57 PM
ABLE finally gave them the news they didn't want...they're too close to the church to the south. They talked about converting it to some sort of quasi-restuarant / martini bar(at night). I haven't seen either of the brothers lately or seen any work on the property so don't know the latest and greatest. Hopefully they didn't give up on the property.
Being as they are across the street, that can't be unexpected.
I think they could keep the martini's if they could come up with a food menu and get reclassified as a restaurant.
Either that or drop the hard liquor... Zima Martini's?
Quote from: OurTulsa on August 11, 2010, 12:45:57 PM
ABLE finally gave them the news they didn't want...they're too close to the church to the south. They talked about converting it to some sort of quasi-restuarant / martini bar(at night). I haven't seen either of the brothers lately or seen any work on the property so don't know the latest and greatest. Hopefully they didn't give up on the property.
I still don't understand why people don't fight the law on ground of forcing religion. After all, there is no other real explination of the law.
I think the logic is like being near schools, since kids go there it isn't safe :/
Quote from: godboko71 on August 11, 2010, 02:56:59 PM
I think the logic is like being near schools, since kids go there it isn't safe :/
Than they bettter start limiting it a whole lot more, because there are a lot of places that kids go.
Quote from: custosnox on August 11, 2010, 03:10:47 PM
Than they bettter start limiting it a whole lot more, because there are a lot of places that kids go.
I didn't say I agreed with the laws ;)
Four pages of discussion on a bar that may or may not open in the low success-rate area of downtown?
:'(
Quote from: Hawkins on August 17, 2010, 09:57:13 PM
Four pages of discussion on a bar that may or may not open in the low success-rate area of downtown?
:'(
It's a bar.
Wow, so now we can add another way that downtown churches actively kill off downtown.
1. Demolition of entire city blocks and historic buildings to create surface lots for once/week usage.
2. Elimination of the above land from the tax rolls.
3. Preventing adaptive re-use of existing nearby buildings for something that would add life, energy and tax dollars to the downtown area.
The sad thing is that downtown is the one area of town that doesn't have restrictive zoning. In general, anything goes downtown. This is good and bad. There's nothing to prevent misguided, suburban-style, big-box developments or giant parking lots, but there's also nothing to prevent a lot of creative uses of downtown buildings.
A funky mid-century architectural gem downtown is the perfect location for a martini bar.
The real joke is that most bars and most churches are never open at the same time. So there's not really any competition for the clientele. (They're all over at the car dealerships, wishing they could buy a car on Sunday.)
What a ridiculous law...even for our ridiculous state.
Quote from: PonderInc on August 19, 2010, 12:51:36 PM
Wow, so now we can add another way that downtown churches actively kill off downtown.
1. Demolition of entire city blocks and historic buildings to create surface lots for once/week usage.
2. Elimination of the above land from the tax rolls.
3. Preventing adaptive re-use of existing nearby buildings for something that would add life, energy and tax dollars to the downtown area.
The sad thing is that downtown is the one area of town that doesn't have restrictive zoning. In general, anything goes downtown. This is good and bad. There's nothing to prevent misguided, suburban-style, big-box developments or giant parking lots, but there's also nothing to prevent a lot of creative uses of downtown buildings.
A funky mid-century architectural gem downtown is the perfect location for a martini bar.
The real joke is that most bars and most churches are never open at the same time. So there's not really any competition for the clientele. (They're all over at the car dealerships, wishing they could buy a car on Sunday.)
What a ridiculous law...even for our ridiculous state.
It's not a "church" law specifically and they have them in many states. In California there is a minimum distance between a liquor store and a veteran's home.
The requirement is 300 feet from any churches, schools or other educational institutions meaning you couldn't open it near Lee Elementary, TCC or OSU either. I believe there is also a law saying it cannot be near any parks or greenspaces but I haven't found that one yet. I believe I had heard that Elote couldn't exist if they were one door further south.
I noticed some cool neon lighting coming from the outside edges of the second floor of that bank drive-in last night. I've never noticed that before. Not sure why that lighting would be there if there weren't any plans to do anything with that place.
Is the martini lounge happening, or what?
I've seen a lot of work going on in there recently. Some flashy stainless steel wall panels up in the entry way, sheet rock work, lighting, parking re-striped. Looks like its going forward to me.
Just went by and saw the neon. Someone's blowing a bunch of time and money if the church is throwing ABLE on them.
Quote from: Townsend on September 10, 2010, 08:00:01 PM
Just went by and saw the neon. Someone's blowing a bunch of time and money if the church is throwing ABLE on them.
Still a Martini Lounge. But they added Sushi to the menu. If more than 50% of your sales come from non-alcohol related revenue, you can get a liquor license within the 300'.
Quote from: pfox on September 15, 2010, 05:34:23 PM
Still a Martini Lounge. But they added Sushi to the menu. If more than 50% of your sales come from non-alcohol related revenue, you can get a liquor license within the 300'.
You need to post more.
Quote from: Townsend on September 15, 2010, 10:46:59 PM
You need to post more.
He's busy trying to improve downtown and doesn't have time to waste talking about it on the internet...
(http://www.apostropher.com/blog/img/pot-kettle.jpg)
just saw a sign up saying, "the much anticipated debut of plush coming soon".
Does anyone have an update regarding this project?
Still "much anticipated" and still "coming soon"
I got a tour about a month ago... kitchen is partially installed. The interior space is much more dramatic than I anticipated, lots of height. Also had a rooftop deck. Pretty neat space. I don't know why it's taking so long, and I didn't want to be nosy. But I assume it's still happening.
QuoteFour pages of discussion on a bar that may or may not open in the low success-rate area of downtown?
Can someone tell me more about the low success rate downtown? I was thinking about opening a new restaurant/bar, but if this news of low success rates is true, I may rethink it.
Quote from: JoeMommaBlake on March 06, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
Can someone tell me more about the low success rate downtown? I was thinking about opening a new restaurant/bar, but if this news of low success rates is true, I may rethink it.
Sure.
Unless it is a diner, a pizza place, pub food, deli, mexican, burger, cheese steak, coffee shop, german beer/brats, greek, crepe, japanese, fast food, a sub shop, fast lunch oriented, bar or in a hotel it hasn't succeeded. I mean, if you think about it, of the last 10 restaurants/bars to open downtown 1 has closed. What downtown really needs is bbq.
The aforementioned martini bar has blue lights on at night now on various archetectual features.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 06, 2011, 02:16:28 PM
Sure.
Unless it is a diner, a pizza place, pub food, deli, mexican, burger, cheese steak, coffee shop, german beer/brats, greek, crepe, japanese, fast food, a sub shop, fast lunch oriented, bar or in a hotel it hasn't succeeded. I mean, if you think about it, of the last 10 restaurants/bars to open downtown 1 has closed. What downtown really needs is bbq.
The aforementioned martini bar has blue lights on at night now on various archetectual features.
Hmm...Billy's on the Square? Guess that's just burgers and not traditional BBQ.
Quote from: Hoss on March 06, 2011, 05:43:16 PM
Hmm...Billy's on the Square? Guess that's just burgers and not traditional BBQ.
As far as I know, Arby's is closer to BBQ than Billy's
Quote from: JoeMommaBlake on March 06, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
Can someone tell me more about the low success rate downtown? I was thinking about opening a new restaurant/bar, but if this news of low success rates is true, I may rethink it.
Looking forward to Back Alley Blues BBQ. No doubt it will be a hit. If only that lot across the street could get developed into a movie theater...
I like that there are more options in the 6th & Boston area too and this lounge will be a good addition. I think tapas/small plates and a really good drink menu in a cool retro space is a decent plan.
Quote from: sgrizzle on March 06, 2011, 09:43:21 PM
As far as I know, Arby's is closer to BBQ than Billy's
Billy's has the hickory burger.
Arby's has the Arby-Q
Downtown is saturated with BBQ
Anyone have an update on this?
Quote from: carltonplace on September 07, 2011, 11:05:28 AM
Anyone have an update on this?
Been idle for a couple of months now.
Quote from: sgrizzle on September 07, 2011, 12:47:45 PM
Been idle for a couple of months now.
(http://i2.listal.com/image/604301/600full-star-trek-ii%3A-the-wrath-of-khan-screenshot.jpg)
ABLE!!!
QuoteABLE!!!
Seriously....
Is there anything that we can do about this? I realize we have big fight with liqour laws going on, but is there a protest we could organize or something? I know the answer is no, but I feel like I have to ask.
And on a completely different note, I know that the space on the corner that used to be an abstracts company was looked at a few years ago by a restaurant person.
Quote from: jacobi on September 07, 2011, 01:08:49 PM
Seriously....
Is there anything that we can do about this? I realize we have big fight with liqour laws going on, but is there a protest we could organize or something? I know the answer is no, but I feel like I have to ask.
And on a completely different note, I know that the space on the corner that used to be an abstracts company was looked at a few years ago by a restaurant person.
Sure if you don't mind going up against these
wise guys
(http://92q.com/files/2011/01/mobsters_header_center.gif)
QuoteSure if you don't mind going up against these wise guys
Somebody's got to. If well organized (talk to Blake, talk to Elliot), it could actually be something seen as really positive. As long as the public is reasured that it is about changing a few specific regulations having to do with ABLE, NOT package stores!
Quote from: jacobi on September 07, 2011, 01:15:48 PM
Somebody's got to. If well organized (talk to Blake, talk to Elliot), it could actually be something seen as really positive. As long as the public is reasured that it is about changing a few specific regulations having to do with ABLE, NOT package stores!
Hope you have a trust fund...
QuoteHope you have a trust fund...
Should I just accept it an just move out of state then? I guess i'll just move to portland then...
Quote from: jacobi on September 07, 2011, 02:42:57 PM
Should I just accept it an just move out of state then? I guess i'll just move to portland then...
I wish I could say "you'd be the only one."
So now we have to fight against the unjust infultration of government by local protectionist rackets AND against the indifference of good men. I'm not so cynical to believe that things can never change. I say we protest; couldn't hurt.
I know, I know, I'm delusional...I guess i'll leave this one alone since I seem to be preaching to the choir.
Quote from: jacobi on September 07, 2011, 02:42:57 PM
Should I just accept it an just move out of state then? I guess i'll just move to portland then...
I didn't say accept it; what I am saying, however, is that Oklahoma is a state of 'good ol' boys'. Do you remember the commissioner's scandal in the early 80s?
QuoteDo you remember the commissioner's scandal in the early 80s?
I was born in '82. So no. :)
Quote from: jacobi on September 07, 2011, 05:02:47 PM
I was born in '82. So no. :)
Google it. Then you'll understand why most native Oklahomans talk about 'the good old boy network'.
Sent from my AT&T Atrix4G with Tapatalk
Quote from: Hoss on September 07, 2011, 05:43:44 PM
Google it. Then you'll understand why most native Oklahomans talk about 'the good old boy network'.
Sent from my AT&T Atrix4G with Tapatalk
Do you write that at the bottom, or does it automatically put that?
Quote from: ZYX on September 07, 2011, 06:10:48 PM
Do you write that at the bottom, or does it automatically put that?
Automatically, when I post from my phone using that app.
Quote from: Hoss on September 07, 2011, 03:15:30 PM
I didn't say accept it; what I am saying, however, is that Oklahoma is a state of 'good ol' boys'. Do you remember the commissioner's scandal in the early 80s?
77 counties in the state, and 75 under investigation. Trudeau did a whole Doonseberry segment for a few weeks on it. I used to joke with people at the town I worked in when they talked about good ole boy politics.
Quote from: dbacks fan on September 07, 2011, 08:01:56 PM
77 counties in the state, and 75 under investigation. Trudeau did a whole Doonseberry segment for a few weeks on it. I used to joke with people at the town I worked in when they talked about good ole boy politics.
The line from Don Henley's song
Dirty Laundry: 'Dirty little secrets, dirty little lies, they got their dirty little fingers in everybody's pie' was directly in reference to this, according to several sources.
To refocus the thread, there is a for lease sign on the building. I guess that it isn't goint to happen. However, if they had done any of the buildout work it still is a net gain. I know that running drain lines and other such initial buildout expences can be crushing. Su if they got any of the work done before abandoning it, at least it would be easier for someone in the future.
Also, there was a comment made about The enterprise building. I don't think it is within 300 feet of first presb. If the park oridinance is true then there would be a problem, but I don't think they are within 300 feet of the church. By the way, you CAN drink in public parks, but having abar thereby would be against the rules? I suggest, if we do have a protest, we go down to centennial green loaded with non-glass containers of booze and enjoy ourselves while making our voices heard. Ok, screw the protest. let's just drink.. ;D
I like the way you drink think
Without filtering back through the thread, do we know if it was ABLE restrictions, local distance ordinances, or they simply lost interest/money?
Here's what the owner told me. He said when he began this mess, he was told that the 300 feet designation was between points of entry between the church and the front door. He then told me how surprised he was to find out later on that the designation was from property line to property line. It had nothing to do with where his front door was! That's why he had to change it from its original concept of a bar to that of restaurant. He now says they're having problems with vent hoods and that's hold up where all his money is going...that and "other issues" in Houston.
After asking around, I found out that the concepts he'd been quoted had included ventless hood from the get go. Sounds like there's more to this story than he was telling me. As for the whole 300 foot thing? Seriously?! Who doesn't do full due diligence before proceeding with a buildout? It just isnt' adding up.
Quote from: em on September 15, 2011, 02:56:09 PM
Here's what the owner told me. He said when he began this mess, he was told that the 300 feet designation was between points of entry between the church and the front door. He then told me how surprised he was to find out later on that the designation was from property line to property line. It had nothing to do with where his front door was! That's why he had to change it from its original concept of a bar to that of restaurant. He now says they're having problems with vent hoods and that's hold up where all his money is going...that and "other issues" in Houston.
After asking around, I found out that the concepts he'd been quoted had included ventless hood from the get go. Sounds like there's more to this story than he was telling me. As for the whole 300 foot thing? Seriously?! Who doesn't do full due diligence before proceeding with a buildout? It just isnt' adding up.
The 300' distance has been a point of contention since liquor by the drink was lealized in Tulsa County in 1985. One of the first ones was a topless bar in Brookside that was in a building around 36th & Peoria in a building on the second floor. The entrance was on the backside of the building and was way more than 300' from the entrance to the church. But the property line division was only about five feet between the buildings so the club was forced to relocate.
It would be interesting to see if their could be an "urban environment" designation with a smaller limit, as 300' is not very far in most of Tulsa but it's a huge distance in downtown/urban areas.
I drove up there yesterday heading downtown and ..ya..the place hasn't really had much done to it and seems sorta like a money pit..it also looks really weird in the way its laid out, I guess it might be a cool lounge but it just still feels like a big parking garage with a little building on the side..the architecture is very cool inside but still...it doesn't look like much has been put into it cosmetically...
There are new signs in the windows:
"For Lease"
Quote from: BKDotCom on November 07, 2011, 12:52:12 PM
There are new signs in the windows:
"For Lease"
I really wanted this thing to happen...too bad. With Belk's opening down the street and the new hotel, and continued success at Elote it seems like Boston Ave is starting to turn into its own little district.
Quote from: BKDotCom on November 07, 2011, 12:52:12 PM
There are new signs in the windows:
"For Lease"
That's a shame really. How far along in construction was it? Might be harder to lease if the thing was half to three quarters done, and the new lessee has a different vision for what they want.
(No sarcasm intended)
Liquor laws ladies and gentlemen.
9 o'clock show exactly the same as the 7 o'clock show. Remember to tip your bartender.
Quote from: Townsend on November 07, 2011, 01:38:39 PM
Liquor laws ladies and gentlemen.
9 o'clock show exactly the same as the 7 o'clock show. Remember to tip your bartender.
And have a designated driver.
I could deal with liquor stores being the only place to get 6 point, but at least let them keep it cold! That is by far the worst part of it. Makes zero sense.
Is this where Elote is opening the other location?
From FB post:
QuoteThe rumor is true. We are opening another restaurant!!! It's at 624 S Cincinnati in an Iconic Mid Century Modern building that was once the largest Auto bank in the nation. Like our page and we will keep you posted on construction, menu, opening date and much more
And apparently so...http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=18700.0;topicseen#msg228398 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=18700.0;topicseen#msg228398)
Quote from: DowntownDan on November 07, 2011, 08:44:37 PM
I could deal with liquor stores being the only place to get 6 point, but at least let them keep it cold! That is by far the worst part of it. Makes zero sense.
Six-point beer: one of the dumbest and willfully ignorant terms in the whole mess. I bet a majority of Oklahomans really think Budweiser in Texas has nearly twice as much alcohol as it does in Oklahoma.
I don't think anyone anywhere else uses that ridiculous term.
Quote from: TheTed on February 15, 2012, 01:46:46 PM
Six-point beer: one of the dumbest and willfully ignorant terms in the whole mess. I bet a majority of Oklahomans really think Budweiser in Texas has nearly twice as much alcohol as it does in Oklahoma.
I don't think anyone anywhere else uses that ridiculous term.
This makes you very angry.
Quote from: Townsend on February 15, 2012, 01:47:31 PM
This makes you very angry.
Try asking about six-point beer outside of Okla-texas. I bet you get a "pancakes" look.
Quote from: TheTed on February 15, 2012, 01:51:58 PM
Try asking about six-point beer outside of Okla-texas. I bet you get a "pancakes" look.
I just look at the tap for Guinness and call it a job done.
Quote from: TheTed on February 15, 2012, 01:46:46 PM
Six-point beer: one of the dumbest and willfully ignorant terms in the whole mess. I bet a majority of Oklahomans really think Budweiser in Texas has nearly twice as much alcohol as it does in Oklahoma.
I don't think anyone anywhere else uses that ridiculous term.
I know "six-point" is not a literal term, it's just how its referred to around here. I guess the actual legal term in Oklahoma is "strong beer." If you use that term outside of Oklahoma, you will get the same looks. I guess it should just be referred to as "beers above 3.2 percent alcohol that is not allowed to be sold in gas stations or grocery stores in Oklahoma." The laws here are so weird that outsiders will understand how absurd it is.
Quote from: Townsend on February 15, 2012, 01:47:31 PM
This makes you very angry.
(http://images.wordpressapi.com/marvin-the-martian.jpg)
Quote from: TheTed on February 15, 2012, 01:46:46 PM
Six-point beer: one of the dumbest and willfully ignorant terms in the whole mess. I bet a majority of Oklahomans really think Budweiser in Texas has nearly twice as much alcohol as it does in Oklahoma.
I don't think anyone anywhere else uses that ridiculous term.
I can drink a six pack of Budweiser from Texas. That takes a twelve pack from Oklahoma to get the same effect.
It also has a better taste from Texas. So no matter what point you want to call it. 3.2 will alway's suck and the best way to describe other better beers is by raising the point value.
So anyway, that 4.7 beer sure was better than that 3.2 puke.
As a side note. Our rotten beer was even mentioned in the movie "Tex"
Quote from: DolfanBob on February 15, 2012, 04:24:06 PM
I can drink a six pack of Budweiser from Texas. That takes a twelve pack from Oklahoma to get the same effect.
It also has a better taste from Texas. So no matter what point you want to call it. 3.2 will alway's suck and the best way to describe other better beers is by raising the point value.
So anyway, that 4.7 beer sure was better than that 3.2 puke.
As a side note. Our rotten beer was even mentioned in the movie "Tex"
Me? This is what I call 'high point beer' or 'strong beer'....
....real beer. Enough said.
Conan, BTW, the guy at Collins Midtown told me Eric was working on his second in the 'El Loco Gringo' series (the one that started with 'El Cucuy').
He's calling this next one 'El Chupacabra'. Awesome.
Quote from: Hoss on February 15, 2012, 04:27:30 PM
Me? This is what I call 'high point beer' or 'strong beer'....
....real beer. Enough said.
Conan, BTW, the guy at Collins Midtown told me Eric was working on his second in the 'El Loco Gringo' series (the one that started with 'El Cucuy').
He's calling this next one 'El Chupacabra'. Awesome.
Right on! I've been avoiding beer lately. Too much time working on the house, too little time to spend burning off the beer calories on the bike. I guess I could say: "I ride for Marshall's".
Quote from: DolfanBob on February 15, 2012, 04:24:06 PM
I can drink a six pack of Budweiser from Texas. That takes a twelve pack from Oklahoma to get the same effect.
i have never understood this. i am not saying your wrong, (you know how you feel after a six pack a lot better than i do), and i have heard plenty of people say the same thing. however, oklahoma beer is 3.2% by weight, which makes it 4% by volume. regular budweiser is 5% by volume. therefore, the alcohol content in a six pack from texas is equal to the alcohol content in 7-1/2 oklahoma beers. i just don't get it.
http://www.ktul.com/story/16942546/elote-to-open-new-tulsa-location#.TzwPWmKhjwE.facebook (http://www.ktul.com/story/16942546/elote-to-open-new-tulsa-location#.TzwPWmKhjwE.facebook)
I finally beat everyone to a story!!! I feel like a real TNF-er now. Exciting news. I hope sho bothers to make good food this time.
Quote from: DolfanBob on February 15, 2012, 04:24:06 PM
I can drink a six pack of Budweiser from Texas. That takes a twelve pack from Oklahoma to get the same effect.
It also has a better taste from Texas. So no matter what point you want to call it. 3.2 will alway's suck and the best way to describe other better beers is by raising the point value.
So anyway, that 4.7 beer sure was better than that 3.2 puke.
As a side note. Our rotten beer was even mentioned in the movie "Tex"
Thank you for proving my point.
QuoteOklahoma low-point beer is 3.2 percent alcohol by weight and 4 percent alcohol by volume, according to an Anheuser-Busch spokesman. The company's regular brew is 4 percent alcohol by weight and 5 percent alcohol by volume, though actual percentages vary depending on the batch.
"You buy a six-pack of Bud in Texas, you buy a seven-pack in Oklahoma for the same punch," said Oliver Delaney, president of the Oklahoma Malt Beverage Association.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3469/is_39_54/ai_109569444/
Quote from: TheTed on February 16, 2012, 01:02:22 AM
Thank you for proving my point.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3469/is_39_54/ai_109569444/
Awesome article. Thank's for that. My boss who is from Kansas swears that he can buy strong Budweiser and Coors.
Well the list provided in the article say's different.
Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Minnesota and Utah also sell 3.2 beer.
I don't know if it has changed or not, but years ago I was in a restaurant in Arkansas on a Sunday and the menu had beer listed, but the waitress said they could not sell it to me on Sunday.
Quote from: DolfanBob on February 16, 2012, 08:01:38 AM
Awesome article. Thank's for that. My boss who is from Kansas swears that he can buy strong Budweiser and Coors.
Well the list provided in the article say's different.
Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Minnesota and Utah also sell 3.2 beer.
I don't know if it has changed or not, but years ago I was in a restaurant in Arkansas on a Sunday and the menu had beer listed, but the waitress said they could not sell it to me on Sunday.
She'd be correct. Some years ago on one of my hockey roadies, we went to a game in Texarkana. The arena was on the Arkansas side of town. It was Sunday. We asked about buying beer. They said 'not on Sunday'. So in that regard, some states are more backward than Oklahoma. I wasn't sure that was possible.
Had the arena been in Texas though, it wouldn't have mattered. That county (Bowie) is a dry county.
EDIT: I've debunked myself. While most of Bowie County IS dry, the city of Texarkana is not. Texas is a funny animal in that the state allows localities to hold 'local option' elections for the passage or restriction of alcohol sales. The TABC website (Texas' version of ABLE) has a spreadsheet listing by county and municipality/jurisdiction of their statuses. At least in OK localities cannot pass laws more restrictive than the state law regarding alcohol (meaning no dry counties).
Quote from: jacobi on February 15, 2012, 05:10:13 PM
http://www.ktul.com/story/16942546/elote-to-open-new-tulsa-location#.TzwPWmKhjwE.facebook (http://www.ktul.com/story/16942546/elote-to-open-new-tulsa-location#.TzwPWmKhjwE.facebook)
I finally beat everyone to a story!!! I feel like a real TNF-er now. Exciting news. I hope sho bothers to make good food this time.
Sorry Jacob, Townsend scooped you one page back.
Quote from: jacobi on February 15, 2012, 05:10:13 PM
http://www.ktul.com/story/16942546/elote-to-open-new-tulsa-location#.TzwPWmKhjwE.facebook (http://www.ktul.com/story/16942546/elote-to-open-new-tulsa-location#.TzwPWmKhjwE.facebook)
I finally beat everyone to a story!!! I feel like a real TNF-er now. Exciting news. I hope sho bothers to make good food this time.
I hope this as well.
Quote from: carltonplace on February 16, 2012, 08:29:15 AM
Sorry Jacob, Townsend scooped you one page back.
Not to mention, that has it's own thread as well:
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=18700
(some of us knew about this weeks ago but weren't allowed to say)
Quote from: hello on February 16, 2012, 09:04:53 AM
I hope this as well.
Not a huge fan of Elote's food either, eh?
It's not very memorable, that's for sure.
Quote from: sgrizzle on February 16, 2012, 09:09:20 AM
(some of us knew about this weeks ago but weren't allowed to say)
Quote from: DolfanBob on February 16, 2012, 08:01:38 AM
Awesome article. Thank's for that. My boss who is from Kansas swears that he can buy strong Budweiser and Coors.
Well the list provided in the article say's different.
Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Minnesota and Utah also sell 3.2 beer.
I don't know if it has changed or not, but years ago I was in a restaurant in Arkansas on a Sunday and the menu had beer listed, but the waitress said they could not sell it to me on Sunday.
You can buy regular Budweiser/Coors in Kansas. The stuff in gas stations and grocery stores is 3.2. The stuff in liquor stores is unadulterated.
http://kcbeerblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/eliminate-32.html
Kansas is actually making progress on liquor laws. They just recently allowed their liquor stores to be open Sundays. It gives me hope for Oklahoma.
And I think you can strike Missouri from that list of 3.2 beer states. Their alcohol laws are such that they can sell pretty much anything anywhere, so I don't think anyone actually sells 3.2 beer. I always get a chuckle at QT in Missouri when the guy in front of me is buying a pint of Jim Beam or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-alcohol_beer#Low-point_beer_.283.2.25.29
I have had strong Bud from Texas but I can't seem to get my beer mule to bring me back any strong Coors (regular not unlead) Everytime I ask for it. When they get back it's the ol, "Oh dude the place we stopped only had Michelob Ultra"
I gotta do a road trip.
I know when I travel to Missouri and can go to walmart or another store and buy wine and dinner its very convenient.
Quote from: TheTed on February 16, 2012, 12:20:55 PM
And I think you can strike Missouri from that list of 3.2 beer states. Their alcohol laws are such that they can sell pretty much anything anywhere, so I don't think anyone actually sells 3.2 beer. I always get a chuckle at QT in Missouri when the guy in front of me is buying a pint of Jim Beam or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-alcohol_beer#Low-point_beer_.283.2.25.29
In the bad old days, 3.2 beer in Missouri was often called "Sunday Beer" because it was the only beer you could buy at a retail store (as opposed to a restaurant) on Sunday. However, most gas stations/convenience stores carried only 3.2 so they could sell it 7 days a week. I'd be surprised if anyone sells 3.2 beer now in Missouri.
I wonder what will happen as fewer and fewer states have restrictive laws to create a market for 3.2 beer? Maybe we're too far away for that to become a problem, but I assume at some point the 3.2 market could become small enough that brewers stop offering it because it's not worth the hassle.