I am looking at buying a kayak to take on the Arkansas and maybe to other area rivers and lakes. For those that kayak on the Arkansas where is the best place and at what level is it safe? Where are some other local places to kayak?
Waterboy should see your message, but you might send him a PM. Different sport and you face the other direction, but consider this before you take the plunge and buy a kayak: Take the learn to row class at Tulsa Rowing Club. It's a 2 week, six session class (approx 12 hours and at least 8 are on the water) and you will get a better feel for whether or not you really want to get out on the Arkansas or not without making a large purchase of something you will have to have adequate space to store. The cost is $125 and it's open to anyone over 18. You do need to get your swimming certification at the local Y, not a big deal. May session starts this evening at 6pm at the TRC boathouse at the Riverwest Festival Parking lot. (23rd & Jackson). They also have June, July, & Aug. LTR's.
www.tulsarowingclub.org
http://www.tulsarowingclub.org/learn_to_row.html
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2010, 09:04:27 AM
Waterboy should see your message, but you might send him a PM. Different sport and you face the other direction, but consider this before you take the plunge and buy a kayak: Take the learn to row class at Tulsa Rowing Club. It's a 2 week, six session class (approx 12 hours and at least 8 are on the water) and you will get a better feel for whether or not you really want to get out on the Arkansas or not without making a large purchase of something you will have to have adequate space to store. The cost is $125 and it's open to anyone over 18. You do need to get your swimming certification at the local Y, not a big deal. May session starts this evening at 6pm at the TRC boathouse at the Riverwest Festival Parking lot. (23rd & Jackson). They also have June, July, & Aug. LTR's.
www.tulsarowingclub.org
http://www.tulsarowingclub.org/learn_to_row.html
Thanks I will look into this. I know you row, are you on a team or just recreational? That may be a better fit. Looking for an interesting alternative to my normal biking/weights workout routine.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 04, 2010, 09:04:27 AM
Waterboy should see your message, but you might send him a PM. Different sport and you face the other direction, but consider this before you take the plunge and buy a kayak: Take the learn to row class at Tulsa Rowing Club. It's a 2 week, six session class (approx 12 hours and at least 8 are on the water) and you will get a better feel for whether or not you really want to get out on the Arkansas or not without making a large purchase of something you will have to have adequate space to store. The cost is $125 and it's open to anyone over 18. You do need to get your swimming certification at the local Y, not a big deal. May session starts this evening at 6pm at the TRC boathouse at the Riverwest Festival Parking lot. (23rd & Jackson). They also have June, July, & Aug. LTR's.
www.tulsarowingclub.org
http://www.tulsarowingclub.org/learn_to_row.html
That's good advice. The Arkansas has at least 5 different personalities as it travels from the Dam downstream to Bixby/Broken Arrow. The rowing crew has a location that is heavy on inner city ambiance (skyline, Elwoods, runners, bikers etc) but also heavier on pollution since the Zink dam backs up inner city runoff.
Otherwise, it depends on wht you want to get out of it. A good workout can be had just kayaking upstream from the boat ramp near the rowing crew up to the 11th street bridge and back at normal levels (3-4 ft depth, 5500 cfs). I personally have never kayaked when the water was over 45000cfs. What's the use? You just hold on and steer. :) A good kayak can be expensive too as well as storage for the year. PM me if you would like to talk more.
Quote from: SXSW on May 04, 2010, 09:24:55 AM
Thanks I will look into this. I know you row, are you on a team or just recreational? That may be a better fit. Looking for an interesting alternative to my normal biking/weights workout routine.
I've raced with TRC Masters the last two seasons. I had shoulder surgery in January and am not back to 100% yet. As well due to some business concerns down the turnpike, I'll likely end up rowing with Chesapeake in the fall season.
There's room for racing or recreational rowers within the framework of the club. You will also learn about river safety, corresponding water levels with current, etc. What Waterboy said about the 45,000 cfs is correct. He's got a lot of experience on the Arkansas and is probably the single best reference you could ask about the river from dam to dam (and probably further south.
I've got an obvious bias recommending TRC, I just figured the buy-in is a lot less for a two week course if someone would like to explore. I can tell you rowing is a better over-all workout than biking (and I'm a very avid cyclist) as it utilizes every muscle group, it's also better (at least for me) at keeping weight off.
If you are up for joining up with the Weds. night ride group this week (or any other week) just let me know as well.
Looks like a kayaker went over the dam...
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12532321 (http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12532321)
Question for those that row/kayak on Zink Lake, is the current strong enough at current levels to push a boat over even if you are a considerable distance from the dam?
Quote from: SXSW on May 24, 2010, 12:42:23 PM
Looks like a kayaker went over the dam...
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12532321 (http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12532321)
Question for those that row/kayak on Zink Lake, is the current strong enough at current levels to push a boat over even if you are a considerable distance from the dam?
That explains the fire trucks running down W. 41st St. this morning. I hope to hell it's not a guy I talked to in the boathouse parking lot Friday night. I was finishing up a bike ride and encountered a guy pulling out a recreational kayak small enough to fit in his Camaro. I told him I didn't want to get up in his business, but that he needed to be aware the river was flowing about 50,000 fpm if he didn't have much experience with the river and that he could be on top of the LWD in no time. The guy claimed to have been on the river "a half dozen times" asked me several questions about the rowing club, commented on my road bike, and then continued about his business. Last I saw of that guy he was paddling up-stream and making little to no progress. I'm hoping he didn't return and it ended badly for him.
I was just heading out for a bike ride when one of the charter members of TRC pulled up yesterday. We chatted briefly and the actual topic of going over the LWD came up (mutual musing about the high flow rate). He said at this flow level, you'd barely notice it as you went over, that it'd be a far worse ride if it were 20 or 30,000 cfs due to the elevation drop over the dam and the turbulence that creates. Personally, I'd care less to find out.
Your question is slightly confusing to me. If you are strong enough to make headway, no problem. If you simply stop and float, you will eventually wind up over the dam. One thing for certain, if that should ever happen, never leave your craft even if it's over-turned, use it for floatation and swim like hell to the closest bank. For a newbie, I wouldn't get out when the level is higher than 5 ft. on the 11th St. stream gage. The river moves along pretty rapidly even at that. I don't have near the lifetime experience that Waterboy does on the river but I've spent more time on it than the average Tulsan. I'd tend to be a little more conservative than sorry.
Here's the USGS link to the river flow and level. TRC uses the 11th street bridge stream level as their guide, rather than CFS, though they are relevant figures. Why that is, I've never been quite clear, my best guess is most likely because there are visual cues you can see from the riverbank with reference points like the tern islands or dock level on the water using level as a go-no go guide. CFS is a total guess unless you get on the web site.
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ok/nwis/uv/?site_no=07164500&
If I remember correctly, the point of the Sand Springs dam being larger and holding more water was to control the ability to release the amount of water needed to fill the river. Would Zink Dam even still be needed in this case, especially if there is a Jenks dam downstream?
Tulsa World is reporting the kayaker has died.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 24, 2010, 01:07:15 PM
That explains the fire trucks running down W. 41st St. this morning. I hope to hell it's not a guy I talked to in the boathouse parking lot Friday night. I was finishing up a bike ride and encountered a guy pulling out a recreational kayak small enough to fit in his Camaro. I told him I didn't want to get up in his business, but that he needed to be aware the river was flowing about 50,000 fpm if he didn't have much experience with the river and that he could be on top of the LWD in no time. The guy claimed to have been on the river "a half dozen times" asked me several questions about the rowing club, commented on my road bike, and then continued about his business. Last I saw of that guy he was paddling up-stream and making little to no progress. I'm hoping he didn't return and it ended badly for him.
I was just heading out for a bike ride when one of the charter members of TRC pulled up yesterday. We chatted briefly and the actual topic of going over the LWD came up (mutual musing about the high flow rate). He said at this flow level, you'd barely notice it as you went over, that it'd be a far worse ride if it were 20 or 30,000 cfs due to the elevation drop over the dam and the turbulence that creates. Personally, I'd care less to find out.
Your question is slightly confusing to me. If you are strong enough to make headway, no problem. If you simply stop and float, you will eventually wind up over the dam. One thing for certain, if that should ever happen, never leave your craft even if it's over-turned, use it for floatation and swim like hell to the closest bank. For a newbie, I wouldn't get out when the level is higher than 5 ft. on the 11th St. stream gage. The river moves along pretty rapidly even at that. I don't have near the lifetime experience that Waterboy does on the river but I've spent more time on it than the average Tulsan. I'd tend to be a little more conservative than sorry.
Here's the USGS link to the river flow and level. TRC uses the 11th street bridge stream level as their guide, rather than CFS, though they are relevant figures. Why that is, I've never been quite clear, my best guess is most likely because there are visual cues you can see from the riverbank with reference points like the tern islands or dock level on the water using level as a go-no go guide. CFS is a total guess unless you get on the web site.
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ok/nwis/uv/?site_no=07164500&
I had my portable scanner and heard most of this as it was going on. It was a little confusing to know exactly what was happening from the 30 minutes or so of conversations I heard. I heard something about that they thought the victim had a life jacket but no helmet. Not sure but that's what I thought I heard. It was pretty frantic sounding for about 20 minutes or so.
Curious to know if there is really any reason for three units plus a fire chief's truck to dispatch to the west bank on this? They apparently launched the rescue boat from the east side below the dam, with one victim, why do we need three or four trucks, plus an EMSA there on the west bank to greet them? Has anyone else ever questioned the number of emergency responders standing around with thumbs in their pocket on traffic accidents and incidents like this?
Quote from: Conan71 on May 24, 2010, 01:55:11 PM
Curious to know if there is really any reason for three units plus a fire chief's truck to dispatch to the west bank on this? They apparently launched the rescue boat from the east side below the dam, with one victim, why do we need three or four trucks, plus an EMSA there on the west bank to greet them? Has anyone else ever questioned the number of emergency responders standing around with thumbs in their pocket on traffic accidents and incidents like this?
Honestly, while listening to the scanner, it almost sounded like the dispatcher didn't really know how to handle it. Someone called (car 18) enroute and asked if he wanted him on the west bank; he hesitated and said no. I remember hearing at least two units on the west bank, and they deployed a boat from the 65th street ramp (?) which I'm guessing is right here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.070435,-95.982378&spn=0.011811,0.01929&t=h&z=16)
Quote from: Hoss on May 24, 2010, 02:00:47 PM
Honestly, while listening to the scanner, it almost sounded like the dispatcher didn't really know how to handle it. Someone called (car 18) enroute and asked if he wanted him on the west bank; he hesitated and said no. I remember hearing at least two units on the west bank, and they deployed a boat from the 65th street ramp (?) which I'm guessing is right here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=36.070435,-95.982378&spn=0.011811,0.01929&t=h&z=16)
I could swear you could see the west side of the ped bridge and LWD as if shot from the east bank in one of the online photos. I could be confused on the number of units. A pumper ran past hot at one point this morning, then maybe 30-45 minutes later, a pumper, a fire & rescue unit, follwed by a TPD pick up (I'm assuming a captain or chief vehicle) a few minutes later. The first pumper call may have been un-related. I didn't pay attention to the time and only put two and two together when I saw SXSW's post.
Wow!. That is so sad.
There is no way a kayaker paddles upstream on this river when it exceeds 10,000cfs which as Conan notes is around 5ft at the 11th street guage. I have tried and you will tire quickly. Actually, the short, squat trick kayaks are even harder to take upstream as you have more resistance. There is a relationship between length and girth, which is why the rowing shells move so fast.
Once you lose your momentum, simply point the boat at an angle and paddle for shore but at that cfs you better make that decision before you pass under the 21st street bridge going downstream.
Its true the lowater dam is mostly under water at this level but, the turbulence is much more than you can see. Just the turbulence under the bridge around the piers shakes you like a wet dog. You add in that he was probably physically spent and panicky and you could easily be jolted over. Once that happens where he was, ain't nothing good to look forward to. Head injury, mouthfuls of water and disorientation.
Not surprised about the rescue squads. Everyone wants part of the action, if nothing else to justify their existence. Truth is they mostly rescue bodies. Rescue is a huge issue for development of the river. My question is whether the safety cables are still in place upstream of the dam? If so, he might have tried to grab it and got thrown around.
Terribly sad and unnecessary.
Quote from: SXSW on May 24, 2010, 01:32:27 PM
If I remember correctly, the point of the Sand Springs dam being larger and holding more water was to control the ability to release the amount of water needed to fill the river. Would Zink Dam even still be needed in this case, especially if there is a Jenks dam downstream?
The Jenks dam will only back up water less than 4 miles. In fact, I think it was closer to 2.5. The Sand Springs dam will back up closer to 8 miles which is a lot of water. When the spring rains come they will all be full.
It would be a shame if this leads to negative impulses, like closing the river to public use. There needs to be more education about the river and its nature so that folks don't take it lightly. That is why I offer my trips. To introduce people to their own river but understand that its like a wild animal. It may be trained but never totally domesticated.
Quote from: waterboy on May 24, 2010, 02:56:08 PM
The Jenks dam will only back up water less than 4 miles. In fact, I think it was closer to 2.5. The Sand Springs dam will back up closer to 8 miles which is a lot of water. When the spring rains come they will all be full.
It would be a shame if this leads to negative impulses, like closing the river to public use. There needs to be more education about the river and its nature so that folks don't take it lightly. That is why I offer my trips. To introduce people to their own river but understand that its like a wild animal. It may be trained but never totally domesticated.
Glad to hear from you... I was worried when I heard this story. My wife and I really enjoyed our anniversary trip down the river with you.
Waterboy knows better, and has serious respect for what that water can do, so I wasn't worried about him. I drove through the TRC parking lot to see if I recognized the guy's car from Friday night to see if he was the unfortunate victim. No car in the parking lot (it's an obvious launch point due to the ease of access to the ramp. So either the victim's car has been moved or they launched from somewhere else. I would hope that guy I talked to got humbled in a hurry and decided not to return until the water drops.
Here's the last paragraph on an email which went out to TRC members this afternoon as a safety reminder. The dock referred to in the email is the dock just north of the boat ramp at Riverwest Festival Park. It's directly east of the three-bay structure which houses the rowing club. When the river is full, it looks deceptively peaceful because there are no rapids north of the LWD to associate a sound with rushing water. This gives you an idea of how quick the current is:
'If you look at the flow levels for this morning the stage average was 10. As stated in TRC's safety rules, NO ROWING IS ALLOWED AT FLOW RATES OVER 9 FEET OF STAGE (APPROXIMATELY 40,000 CFS). At 9 feet of stage it takes less than 5 MINUTES to drift downstream from the dock and over the low water dam. Going over the low water dam will most likely result in death. Also, please beware, safe levels of flow difer based on the skill levels of the rowers and the boats to be taken out. I just want to remind every member to check current flow + wind conditions before going out on the water. DO NOT ROW OUTSIDE OF YOUR SKILL LEVEL and please, do not take chances."
Quote from: Patrick on May 24, 2010, 03:08:34 PM
Glad to hear from you... I was worried when I heard this story. My wife and I really enjoyed our anniversary trip down the river with you.
Thank you Patrick. It was a great trip. As a reference, during our trip the water was a mere 5700cfs. This morning's release was 8 times that rate.
Conan is right about my respect for the river. My son wanted to go float yesterday and I told him it wouldn't be worth the risk. Windy out of the southwest, high, fast water and believe it or not, the water is still pretty cold. At any rate, we would have only left from far upstream and started our move towards the shore right after passing under the 11th street bridge. You simply don't have much time to correct for errors at that level. Five minutes for the distance from the rowing dock to the lowater dam computes to about 12 mph. Usual speed at normal level is about 5mph.
Quote from: waterboy on May 24, 2010, 02:56:08 PM
The Jenks dam will only back up water less than 4 miles. In fact, I think it was closer to 2.5. The Sand Springs dam will back up closer to 8 miles which is a lot of water. When the spring rains come they will all be full.
It would be a shame if this leads to negative impulses, like closing the river to public use. There needs to be more education about the river and its nature so that folks don't take it lightly. That is why I offer my trips. To introduce people to their own river but understand that its like a wild animal. It may be trained but never totally domesticated.
Currently the river fills up when Keystone lets out enough water. My question was if the larger Sand Springs dam is built could it act as a mini-Keystone dam and let water out more frequently filling up the river most of the year except in times of major drought? Could you theoretically get by with a Jenks dam and a Sand Springs dam and then turn Zink Dam into more of a stepped whitewater area while maintaining water in the river most of the year due to daily releases from the Sand Springs dam below Keystone? Something definitely needs to be done at Zink.
And I received your PM and will definitely take you up on the offer to float the Arkansas. I'll let you know but probably next month sometime, when the river drops.
Quote from: waterboy on May 24, 2010, 04:53:24 PM
Thank you Patrick. It was a great trip. As a reference, during our trip the water was a mere 5700cfs. This morning's release was 8 times that rate.
Wasn't the release during the flood of 1986 over 300,000 cfs? That is nuts!
Quote from: SXSW on May 24, 2010, 04:55:37 PM
Currently the river fills up when Keystone lets out enough water. My question was if the larger Sand Springs dam is built could it act as a mini-Keystone dam and let water out more frequently filling up the river most of the year except in times of major drought? Could you theoretically get by with a Jenks dam and a Sand Springs dam and then turn Zink Dam into more of a stepped whitewater area while maintaining water in the river most of the year due to daily releases from the Sand Springs dam below Keystone? Something definitely needs to be done at Zink.
And I received your PM and will definitely take you up on the offer to float the Arkansas. I'll let you know but probably next month sometime, when the river drops.
That would be a better question for someone like Kirby C. (V2025). I would say that the policies for releasing water and how much water would likely be a Corps decision, heavily influenced by politics (otherwise the burgs along the river may end up in warfare when SS decides they want more water for a festival and Jenks needs the water for a ferry) . That seems like a good idea though.
I wondered why the river was dang near bone dry last week even though there was voluminous rain already within the watershed, and, its spring you know rain is inevitably coming. I guess there was some concern somewhere else along the chain of lakes and dams that brought them to shut the gates off rather than prepare for heavy rains. But that is their usual practice. They seem to binge/purge.
Quote from: waterboy on May 24, 2010, 05:18:31 PM
That would be a better question for someone like Kirby C. (V2025). I would say that the policies for releasing water and how much water would likely be a Corps decision, heavily influenced by politics (otherwise the burgs along the river may end up in warfare when SS decides they want more water for a festival and Jenks needs the water for a ferry) . That seems like a good idea though.
I wondered why the river was dang near bone dry last week even though there was voluminous rain already within the watershed, and, its spring you know rain is inevitably coming. I guess there was some concern somewhere else along the chain of lakes and dams that brought them to shut the gates off rather than prepare for heavy rains. But that is their usual practice. They seem to binge/purge.
I think that is what most people want, more consistency in releases from Keystone dam so there's always "water in the river". Not like it is right now, although sometimes it would be, but maybe around ~35,000 cfs to keep the banks noticeably full. A separate, large dam in Sand Springs could help regulate the erratic releases the Corps sends down from Keystone, and another dam south of Jenks should keep most of Tulsa's stretch of the Arkansas full the majority of the year. I don't know the status of either of those dams but I thought they were already funded? I believe the whitewater park was part of the failed river tax proposal. I hope that happens someday, I could see it being a regional draw to Tulsa.
5000 to 10000 cfs is more than enough to keep the river filled in at Zink. 2 to 2.5 feet at the gage (sorry I don't have the URL bookmarked on my iPhone to give a corresponding flow, but I think 2 ft is around 2000-3000 cfs release) ensures that below the 21st St bridge. You start to see sand bars and rocks north of the bridge below about 2ft. The corps couldn't sustain 35k cfs for extended periods without depleting Keystone. Keep in mind Keystone as well as other dams provide power and flood management so it's a delecate balance. In addition to the recent heavy rains, snow melt is on the increase in the Rockies right now though that plays a lesser role in all the water we see right now.
I jogged over the Pedestrian Bridge this evening and looked for the safety cables. There are three different "snags" along the cable which is held up by orange plastic floats. These are trees that have been caught on the cable and build up because of the swift current. They appear to have been in place for quite some time. I am just surmising that this fellow was in trouble before he went over the dam. Maybe a heart attack or injury of some type. He had several opportunities to jam his kayak safely into these snags or latch onto the cable and wait for help.
I also think he may have put in at West Bank or the Skate Park. Otherwise he would have had time to realize the strength of the current and had time to pull to either bank. I checked my water profiles from last year at this time and sure enough, I floated down with JtCrissup and a friend in a 16ft canoe and a 10ft kayak. My notes show that the water was 45,000cfs and that we had little trouble dealing with it. We started our movement to the bank just after passing the least tern islands and were easily able to make it over to where Elwoods is in that half mile.
It's hard not to speculate but I'm guessing this was someone without a lot of experience or knowledge of the sport and this particular river. I fear people buying a Yak then assuming it's a safe idea to get into the Arkansas River since it looks deceptively serene right now.
Not being properly prepared nor appreciating the power of a large moving body of water like that puts other lives at risk when they have to come rescue you. I realize those people know what they sign on for when they take the job, but still, just imagine if one of the witnesses had thought they were capable of swimming to the kayaker.
This was posted on the TW comments section:
I'm having a tough time doing this and not sure I'm doing the right thing but just in case relatives, loved ones and friends may want to know the sad and horrific sight I witnessed at Zink Dam. Even though I didn't know him the image of the accident will be with me forever. My sincerest condolences to them. Boaters, swimmers and fishermen need to know how dangerous the Zink Dam spillway rip current can be during high run-off.
I ride bike on the river trails regularly and generally ride across the pedestrian bridge to see what the fishermen are catching off the west end fishing pier and sometimes watch the trapped logs and other floatsam being battered by the incredibly strong undertow.
Yesterday while on the pier I noticed a kayaker 75 feet east of me who was paddling about 25 feet from and parallel to the edge of the dam. To the best of my recollection he was wearing a helmet, had a back pack or something else on his back and maybe a life vest. He looked like he knew what he was doing as he appeared to handle the paddle and craft well. Although he was paddling adeptly he was getting closer and closer to dam edge. The water was very fast. Then just in time he expertly turned and pointed the kayak to go over the dam. I couldn't tell whether his action was to prevent from going over the dam sideways or he really wanted to go over the dam. We'll never know. There were three of us on the pier watching and at least two people on shore watching and perhaps some on the pedestrain bridge.
I thought he made a pretty nice move as the kayak shot over the dam but when it hit the water it went under. Then I expected it to bob up with him in it and see him continue on his journey downstream. But it never came up for what seemed like an eternity but probably was 10 to 20 or so seconds. Finally the tip showed up and then several seconds later he bobbed up with helmet on and tried to grab or put his arm around the end of the kayak. He was about 75 feet east of us as we watched helplessly so we tried to call 911 on our cell phones. I didn't get through but one of the others did. It seemed like the kayaker and his craft stayed under for longer periods than they were floating. The turbulent water must have lots of air in it and I'd guess because of that it has a lower bouyancy.
Anything that is caught in the rip current stays submerged more than on the surface but everything usually seems to be forced by the currents from the center of the dam toward the west end. We could see him and the kayak were coming closer to us. The fisherman reeled in his line and tried to cast out to hook him because if he had we might have been able to get him to shore and get him out. The problem was that he would pop up in a differnet place each time and not be visible long enough to snag him. Each time I saw him he was face down without his helmet and I could see something on his back like a backpack or whatever. I think that whatever prevented him from keeping his head up and out of the water. There was at least one small log close by and he could have been struck by it knocking him unconcious.
Neither he nor the kayak made it to corner of the spillway and both floated off downstream fully visible and he was face down the rest of the time. I followed him on my bike and got ahead of him past the PSO plant and knew of an opening where I might be able to help. But he had just floated past too far out. I then returned to the bridge and told a policeman what I saw.
Man, that's gruesome. I guess he was just overconfident and unlucky. I learned with my airboat that decisions on direction change have to be made a quarter mile in advance on this river. If you wait too long, you have little choice because of currents, obstacles, wind etc. You also can easily be confused by the conflicting signals being sent to your brain by the currents. Out in the middle of the river you have no concept of how fast you're going unless you fix your sights on something and ignore your instincts. Its like crossing a high speed expressway on foot. Most folks are killed because they can't correctly perceive the distance a car can cover at 70mph. Perhaps he got out of position trying to get to shore and thought last minute that his only chance was to shoot over the dam. Tragic.
I saw a quick shot of the kayak. It looked to be a Pelican Pursuit. Awful boat. Poor maneuverability, very tight and low sitting. The reason everything seems to drift to the west side is that they constructed a channel that runs parallel to the dam which takes the water over to the deeper channel. That's where you see most of the fishermen.
Waterboy, we know you're the resident expert for all things related to the Arkansas River in Tulsa County, but do you also kayak on other area rivers? I am thinking about checking out the Mulberry and Buffalo rivers in Arkansas for either rafting or kayaking as I've heard good things and both are only about a 3 hour drive from Tulsa. Do you, or anyone else, have experience with these rivers?
Sorry, I don't. I have visited the websites for the Mulberry and spoken at length with my son and a friend who have done them. My wife did the Buffaloe. They were all quite positive. The Mulberry can be very challenging in the spring, in fact, they close it off when the water is too high.
I've heard good things about both the Mulberry and Buffalo rivers. When the rivers are low they are pretty tame and good for rafts/beer drinking like the Illinois. When the water goes up they can be pretty challenging even for experienced kayakers.
The city/state needs to do a better job of promoting the mountains, rivers, and lakes near Tulsa. Not many (or any) central U.S. cities the size of Tulsa have such a great outdoor playground so close to the city. Some people who have lived in Tulsa for years do not know about the many opportunities in eastern OK, western AR, and southern MO. IMO Tulsa should play up its proximity to the Ozarks and also as the heart of Green Country with forests and hills (unlike the central and western parts of the state).
Quote from: SXSW on June 03, 2010, 02:07:23 PM
I've heard good things about both the Mulberry and Buffalo rivers. When the rivers are low they are pretty tame and good for rafts/beer drinking like the Illinois. When the water goes up they can be pretty challenging even for experienced kayakers.
The city/state needs to do a better job of promoting the mountains, rivers, and lakes near Tulsa. Not many (or any) central U.S. cities the size of Tulsa have such a great outdoor playground so close to the city. Some people who have lived in Tulsa for years do not know about the many opportunities in eastern OK, western AR, and southern MO. IMO Tulsa should play up its proximity to the Ozarks and also as the heart of Green Country with forests and hills (unlike the central and western parts of the state).
That's our wonderful Chamber of Commerce at work. Maybe someone should let them know there's so much to do around Tulsa.
I have never really thought about owning a kayak or a canoe, until I moved into the apartment complex I live in now.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment020.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment033.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment020.jpg)
I now find myself wanting something to go out on the water, and the apartment complex limits me to self propelled water devices. How do I get a kayak or canoe back to where I live owning a Mazda Miata? ;D
Drill holes in your fenders for a support rack for the water craft. I'm sure you can find a welding shop to rig up something for you. ;D
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 03, 2010, 10:48:46 PM
Drill holes in your fenders for a support rack for the water craft. I'm sure you can find a welding shop to rig up something for you. ;D
Sauerkraut, did you log into the wrong account?
Quote from: dbacks fan on June 03, 2010, 10:09:44 PM
I have never really thought about owning a kayak or a canoe, until I moved into the apartment complex I live in now.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment020.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment033.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment020.jpg)
I now find myself wanting something to go out on the water, and the apartment complex limits me to self propelled water devices. How do I get a kayak or canoe back to where I live owning a Mazda Miata? ;D
Consider an inflatable kayak by SeaEagle. They work well, are pretty indestructable and unsinkable yet fold up to fit in a duffle bag. There are some more expensive brands on the market but this one is a good starter.
Quote from: dbacks fan on June 03, 2010, 10:09:44 PM
I have never really thought about owning a kayak or a canoe, until I moved into the apartment complex I live in now.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment020.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment033.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Apartment/Apartment020.jpg)
I now find myself wanting something to go out on the water, and the apartment complex limits me to self propelled water devices. How do I get a kayak or canoe back to where I live owning a Mazda Miata? ;D
Is that in Phoenix? Looks really nice.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 03, 2010, 03:27:02 PM
That's our wonderful Chamber of Commerce at work. Maybe someone should let them know there's so much to do around Tulsa.
That and the Convention and Visitors Bureau. Both could do a better job promoting the city. I'd like to see TulsaPeople or Urban Tulsa do a piece on Ozark activities pointing out hiking trails, state parks, kayaking/rafting outfitters, lodges, restaurants, etc. within 2-3 hours east of Tulsa. I went camping one weekend in the mountains north of Clarksville, AR off SH 123 and SH 7. It was about a 3 hour drive from Tulsa and the scenery was awesome. There are similar areas even closer, around Fayetteville, and areas in southeast Oklahoma around Talihina that are only about a 2-2.5 hour drive. In Oklahoma the Illinois, Kiamichi, and Mountain Fork rivers have outfitters for rafts/kayaks and in Arkansas I know of outfitters on the Mulberry and Buffalo and I'm sure there are a couple others. SW Missouri has a few too, possibly the Elk River which flows into Grand Lake. The Cossatot, in west central AR near Mena, is supposed to be the most difficult whitewater between the Rockies and Appalachains. I can't think of any place outside of the Western mountain states and a few in the Appalachains that have so many whitewater streams so close.
Quote from: SXSW on June 04, 2010, 08:34:28 AM
That and the Convention and Visitors Bureau. Both could do a better job promoting the city. I'd like to see TulsaPeople or Urban Tulsa do a piece on Ozark activities pointing out hiking trails, state parks, kayaking/rafting outfitters, lodges, restaurants, etc. within 2-3 hours east of Tulsa. I went camping one weekend in the mountains north of Clarksville, AR off SH 123 and SH 7. It was about a 3 hour drive from Tulsa and the scenery was awesome. There are similar areas even closer, around Fayetteville, and areas in southeast Oklahoma around Talihina that are only about a 2-2.5 hour drive. In Oklahoma the Illinois, Kiamichi, and Mountain Fork rivers have outfitters for rafts/kayaks and in Arkansas I know of outfitters on the Mulberry and Buffalo and I'm sure there are a couple others. SW Missouri has a few too, possibly the Elk River which flows into Grand Lake. The Cossatot, in west central AR near Mena, is supposed to be the most difficult whitewater between the Rockies and Appalachains. I can't think of any place outside of the Western mountain states and a few in the Appalachains that have so many whitewater streams so close.
Isn't the C&VB a branch of the Metro Chamber? Again, promotional FAIL.
Many people actually are aware of these gems existing. Many motorcyclists and bicyclist friends of mine are all well aware of the Talamena Drive and many scenic opportunities in the Ozarks and Ouachita's.
Water sports have also been a cornerstone of NE Oklahoma recreation for years. The Illinois, largely due to the AG's relentless pursuit of the poultry lawsuit, now has a PR problem of people thinking it's a reeking flow of skankwater which is entirely untrue. I agree the watershed needs to be protected, but many people now think waterways in NE OK and NWA are unsafe to be in.
Drop a note to the editors at UTW and TP about a story pitch, they are always willing to listen. Targeted editorial like that is also a good opportunity for the ad sales staff to sell around it to resorts, B & B's and outfitters.
Quote from: SXSW on June 04, 2010, 08:18:31 AM
Is that in Phoenix? Looks really nice.
Actually it's Gilbert a suburb SE of Phoenix. There are several neighborhoods all over the valley that are like this.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/skilake.jpg)
This one is a mile north of me, and it is a skiing lake complete with a ski jump. Gated community and way out of my price range.
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 03, 2010, 10:48:46 PM
Drill holes in your fenders for a support rack for the water craft. I'm sure you can find a welding shop to rig up something for you. ;D
Thought about that, but Jesse James tried it with a Miata on Monster Garage and it did not go well.
Quote from: waterboy on June 04, 2010, 08:12:38 AM
Consider an inflatable kayak by SeaEagle. They work well, are pretty indestructable and unsinkable yet fold up to fit in a duffle bag. There are some more expensive brands on the market but this one is a good starter.
If I do, I have friends here that own pick ups so getting it to the complex is not a problem. I might just out of curiosity go to Dick's Sporting Goods this weekend just to look and see what they offer and then shop around.