When you type "Tulsa Forum" into Google this is the site that comes up first. So potentially new Tulsa residents and people interested in the city could use this forum as their 'front door' to Tulsa. In that case how can we make this forum more relevant to Tulsa? Can we structure the site differently in a more user-friendly way? Can the moderation do a more effective job of putting topics in the appropriate subforums and deleting spam posts? How can we recruit more active posters? There is plenty of room for improvement and I welcome your suggestions.
Quote from: SXSW on April 26, 2010, 10:14:09 AM
When you type "Tulsa Forum" into Google this is the site that comes up first. So potentially new Tulsa residents and people interested in the city could use this forum as their 'front door' to Tulsa. In that case how can we make this forum more relevant to Tulsa? Can we structure the site differently in a more user-friendly way? Can the moderation do a more effective job of putting topics in the appropriate subforums and deleting spam posts? How can we recruit more active posters? There is plenty of room for improvement and I welcome your suggestions.
Not sure if I ever told you this, but you are a heck of a great advocate for Tulsa.
Quote from: guido911 on April 26, 2010, 01:45:06 PM
Not sure if I ever told you this, but you are a heck of a great advocate for Tulsa.
Thanks, I do what I can. :)
There are many just like all of us who advocate Tulsa and we need them here on this forum. There used to be many more active posters here and it would be great to have them back, and to truly be the internet 'voice' for Tulsa. Like I said when you type in Tulsa Forum into Google this is what comes up. OKCTalk, when they aren't constantly acting insecure about how OKC compares to Tulsa, is a very active forum with lots of great discussion. There is no reason why they should have a more active forum. Another great forum that is well-moderated is Urban Ohio, mainly because the development threads are always updated and don't stray off topic like on a certain site..
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php (http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php)
I feel that the National & International Politics section is inappropriate on this forum. I rarely see much in that section which directly applies to a Tulsa-based forum. I personally know at least two posters who stopped visiting this forum as soon as the National & International Politics threads became the primary focus for this forum, and I know that my participation on this forum greatly decreased as well. If you want to discuss national politics, there are several other forums in which one can debate. The TulsaNow forum, in my opinion, is not the place.
Quote from: TURobY on April 26, 2010, 02:21:53 PM
I feel that the National & International Politics section is inappropriate on this forum. I rarely see much in that section which directly applies to a Tulsa-based forum. I personally know at least two posters who stopped visiting this forum as soon as the National & International Politics threads became the primary focus for this forum, and I know that my participation on this forum greatly decreased as well. If you want to discuss national politics, there are several other forums in which one can debate. The TulsaNow forum, in my opinion, is not the place.
Totally agree.
I view that along the lines of saying: "I don't turn on the TV because my service provider carries MSNBC". People can choose to ignore the parts or sections of the forum they don't like and pay attention to what they are interested in.
IMO, it's not a matter of people over-utilizing national politics on this forum, more a matter of the local sections being under-utilized, or dominated with negative banter about Tulsa when they are utilized (i.e. the bashing of the BOK Center, dredging up the idea of Brady being a racist everytime the Brady District is mentioned). I think there's simply a tendency for personal paradigms and politics to make it into on-line discussion, even on local sections. It's pretty difficult to talk about a grocery store in north Tulsa without the conversation eventually turning into blaming a former mayor, current councilors, or the current administration. More locally focused forums have been tried and they don't exist anymore.
If people don't want to read Guido, fotd, Gaspar, Wevus, myself, etc. on national politics, they don't have to click on that section.
I think it woudl go a long way to make new people more welcome here. It seems that when we get new posters that some people try their best to show them that they (they being some of the established posters) are the elite and try and put down anything the new posters say. Of course, the national politics section seems to be an area where this happens quiet a bit. In any case, I really think it would go a long way for posters here to NOT try so hard to prove that they are better then anyone who is new.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 26, 2010, 02:32:44 PM
If people don't want to read Guido, fotd, Gaspar, Wevus, myself, etc. on national politics, they don't have to click on that section.
Or pick and choose which threads to look at. I personally try not to open a thread started by Guido or fotd, though I fail from time to time to overcome myself.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 26, 2010, 02:32:44 PM
If people don't want to read Guido, fotd, Gaspar, Wevus, myself, etc. on national politics, they don't have to click on that section.
Easier said than done. I utilize the "Show unread posts since last visit" link, since I don't have time to manually search every forum section.
Quote from: TURobY on April 26, 2010, 02:45:13 PM
Easier said than done. I utilize the "Show unread posts since last visit" link, since I don't have time to manually search every forum section.
Same here. Besides I was born to participate in freak shows, so it's kind of unavoidable for me. I come from a long line of carnies, there's no use in resisting. Personally, I liked the old forum format before.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 26, 2010, 02:47:06 PM
Same here. Besides I was born to participate in freak shows, so it's kind of unavoidable for me. I come from a long line of carnies, there's no use in resisting. Personally, I liked the old forum format before.
I wouldn't call myself a freak. I prefer abnormally engaged.
It is good to hear of the carnie lineage. I always respected that side of you.
I would like to see maybe a new more modern theme used with the forums. It is somewhat old school. Maybe even run a contest to design a new look. Maybe even go with something better than SMF such as Invision Power Board or something. But of course that could just be the web geek in me and it is fine the way it is.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 26, 2010, 02:32:44 PM
If people don't want to read Guido, fotd, Gaspar, Wevus, myself, etc. on national politics, they don't have to click on that section.
I've attempted that. Some of the posters tend to spread their political views into the other parts of the forum.
I hope you're successful with this.
Quote from: stageidea on April 26, 2010, 03:26:56 PM
I would like to see maybe a new more modern theme used with the forums. It is somewhat old school. Maybe even run a contest to design a new look. Maybe even go with something better than SMF such as Invision Power Board or something. But of course that could just be the web geek in me and it is fine the way it is.
SMF would be better than the current format. One thing that bugs me, and this can easily be fixed by increased moderation, is that Development & New Business should remain just that while anything else should be in either Other Discussion (non-development or political issues) or Chat & Advice (need services, information, etc.). Also, creating a section for photos like what you see on City Data would be nice. Streamlining the forum would be a major improvement.
Speaking of new boards, I've always been a fan of vBulletin which appears to be what OKCTalk uses as well. Another board I'm on that uses vB has various forums that you can opt in, which sounds like it would resolve the complaints about the Nat'l Politics thread. Users would have to individually opt in to see that forum.
Quote from: Nik on April 26, 2010, 04:17:31 PM
Speaking of new boards, I've always been a fan of vBulletin which appears to be what OKCTalk uses as well. Another board I'm on that uses vB has various forums that you can opt in, which sounds like it would resolve the complaints about the Nat'l Politics thread. Users would have to individually opt in to see that forum.
Last I looked, wasn't there a Gallery link at the top of this page?
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?action=gallery
???
I dont' like seeing the national political stuff on here either. I have watched this site get more angry, and more nasty and filthy to boot. Even when a topic starts out as something interesting, say about a local development, it quickly, in one page even, gets hijacked with irrelevant crap... and then often stays there and turns everyone who would want to talk about the actual thread, off. I don't want my posts and my name seen in most of the conversations on here anymore. Some who used to have more insightful things to say, like recyclemichael, now seems to lean mostly on his quips that once would have been lightheared in a decent thread, when added to a bunch of anger and crap, Is now just another idiot piling on and being as annoying as the rest. I have noticed Conan71 too becoming more sharp and knee jerk political. And yes, I have started not posting as much and find myself more and more frustrated and wishing the old forum that got me interested in this site, was back.
I think we have gotten too afraid to censor things on here for fear of losing the few posters we have left. But I have noticed that the other, far more popular forums, that I go to will pounce on even the slightest infraction. This post of mine would get a stern warning and likely be deleted. If you don't know why, you have been on this forum too long.
However, I also believe, that if you dont like the way something is, try to change it yourself. So I will try to start some threads on some topics I would like to talk about and start asking the moderators to do their duty.
There is no need to switch forum software, if this site was upgraded to 2.0.0 RC3 users could ignore boards (there may be a modification to do this in 1.1.x but it would most likely not transfer once the upgrade to 2.0.0 would go through.)
Now I do wish some of the users would learn to not call names and be more respectful to one another. Either way I will do my best to be a bit more active. I will admit I have not been doing my partt of late.
Quote from: Nik on April 26, 2010, 04:17:31 PM
Speaking of new boards, I've always been a fan of vBulletin which appears to be what OKCTalk uses as well. Another board I'm on that uses vB has various forums that you can opt in, which sounds like it would resolve the complaints about the Nat'l Politics thread. Users would have to individually opt in to see that forum.
I've been a mod on a vbulletin and from that side of it I really liked it. It also gives a lot of room for customizing
Quote from: custosnox on April 26, 2010, 05:13:25 PM
I've been a mod on a vbulletin and from that side of it I really liked it. It also gives a lot of room for customizing
Not that I have anything against vB, but SMF is very expandable/customizable as well, though again for the most flexibility the site admins would need to upgrade to 2.0.0 RC3 or wait how ever long for 2 final.
Quote from: TURobY on April 26, 2010, 02:21:53 PM
I feel that the National & International Politics section is inappropriate on this forum. I rarely see much in that section which directly applies to a Tulsa-based forum. I personally know at least two posters who stopped visiting this forum as soon as the National & International Politics threads became the primary focus for this forum
They aren't the primary focus, though. If you want other areas to be more active make posts in them, please.
Some of us like to blow off steam about those subjects with our neighbors. I like to think most of the partisan stuff is contained in that particular subforum and that nobody takes it personally. Either way, it's not as if anyone is clicking your mouse on that subforum. (and if you're using the unread posts feature, the containing forum is clearly labeled)
If other forums are getting contaminated with the political crap, user flagging of off topic posts and slightly increased moderation (so as to monitor what is getting flagged) would solve the issue.
I quit making comments about national or political issues here. I too felt like it was hurting this forum more than helping. I go to other sites to gripe about politics or national issues. I come here to read about and comment about Tulsa.
Quote from: godboko71 on April 26, 2010, 05:46:46 PM
Not that I have anything against vB, but SMF is very expandable/customizable as well, though again for the most flexibility the site admins would need to upgrade to 2.0.0 RC3 or wait how ever long for 2 final.
And the fact that SMF is gratis. vBulletin...not so much.
When you ban someone make sure they stay banned.....
Quote from: SXSW on April 26, 2010, 03:59:16 PM
SMF would be better than the current format. One thing that bugs me, and this can easily be fixed by increased moderation, is that Development & New Business should remain just that while anything else should be in either Other Discussion (non-development or political issues) or Chat & Advice (need services, information, etc.). Also, creating a section for photos like what you see on City Data would be nice. Streamlining the forum would be a major improvement.
FYI, this is SMF. It is highly customizable but all the mode developers ditched 1.x when 2.x was announced. However 2.x is going to be released around the time we have all jet cars in our driveway. Unfortunately I've run into problems trying to mod the board when the mods have been abandoned by their own authors. We purchased vbulletin but could not get our data ported over from the previous board (snitz) not to mention the roughly $200 annual fee for the pleasure of using their product that is really no better than SMF or PHPbb.
And as mentioned by another poster, there is a photo gallery but it doesn't get much use.
I'm trying to clean up the topics. Unfortunately the most important category, development, is the first postable category and it gets dumped in a lot.
As far as politics, we split them out and put them at the bottom of the board. For a time we also had it visible only to logged-in users. The categories we use are based on the conversations that were happening on the board. National politics was being discussed long before we had a politics category and our goal was to try to separate it from the more relevant discussions. Unfortunately the civility of the discussion in this area seems to be the problem more than the topics themselves.
Additional moderation and technical advice is welcome. Somewhat out of the blue we had two volunteers contact us today. If anyone is familiar with wordpress/smf integration that would be extremely helpful and could lead to an overall site refresh.
Quote from: Breadburner on April 26, 2010, 08:57:10 PM
When you ban someone make sure they stay banned.....
Oh, now that would dumb TNF down furthur....Guido s/b banned 100 times over. So, how do you not discriminate?
Quote from: Breadburner on April 26, 2010, 08:57:10 PM
When you ban someone make sure they stay banned.....
We have only banned five "real" people. Two were reinstated at some point but strangely enough, both of them deleted themselves at some point. We try to make and stick to strict guidelines but just like in life, being a buffoon is hard to outlaw.
Quote from: fotd on April 26, 2010, 09:04:16 PM
Oh, now that would dumb TNF down furthur....Guido s/b banned 100 times over. So, how do you not discriminate?
You might want to recuse yourself from this particular topic...
Quote from: SXSW on April 26, 2010, 03:59:16 PM
SMF would be better than the current format. One thing that bugs me, and this can easily be fixed by increased moderation, is that Development & New Business should remain just that while anything else should be in either Other Discussion (non-development or political issues) or Chat & Advice (need services, information, etc.). Also, creating a section for photos like what you see on City Data would be nice. Streamlining the forum would be a major improvement.
Unfortunately, one thing that bugs
me is that the once popular "General Discussion" section has now become the "Other Discussion" section. The "Development & New Business" section and the "PlaniTulsa" sections are separated. Why is this necessary?..... Those sections can easily be combined, while leaving a General Discussion section open for somebody like me, who may post about an apt fire this morning or some mishap at one of Kitchell's clubs.....
I lurked on this site for months as a guest before posting for the first time a few years ago. I was impressed by how Tulsa-centric it was; and it aided my decision whether to move back to Tulsa from Chicago; or move to Rochester or Indy or Grand Rapids or OKC..... if I were still in that situation today, I'd be more likely to tune out TulsaNow and go to Citydata for my info.
I am supportive of downtown development and would have been tempted to try to be active within the organization TulsaNow, but this forum descended into groupthink all too often and I felt there were hidden agendas being pursued by certain posters (TulsaNow members?) who could sign in as "Admin" at any time..... I remember having an argument with someone who accidentally signed in as "Admin" for their next 2 posts. Which may explain why I currently take the moderating and censorship decisions on this site with a grain of salt....
TulsaNow needs to decide whether this forum is going to be a true Public Forum-- a worthy broad based and thoughtful alternative to citydata or the TW comments section; or whether it simply becomes an outlet for the TN organization to express its own narrowly focused views to a handful of like-minded congregants....
IMHO, anyone who can sign in as "Admin" or "Moderator" should have that title clearly listed on their forum profile. This is one of the few sites where the Admin or Moderator titles are kept anonymous.... as long as that continues to be the case, I'll post every now and then about my soccer ideas, or engage in the occasional political pissing match.... but beyond that, no need to engage in detailed discussion the way the forum is currently organized.My two cents.
Quote from: Admin on April 26, 2010, 09:13:03 PM
You might want to recuse yourself from this particular topic...
OK, I'll vacate this thread. But just remember I am the devil's advocate and the devil's disciple here. Just wouldn't be the same without all my evil to counterbalance all the good.
Quote from: fotd on April 26, 2010, 09:28:39 PM
OK, I'll vacate this thread. But just remember I am the devil's advocate and the devil's disciple here. Just wouldn't be the same without all my evil to counterbalance all the good.
It'd be alright if your schtick didn't drive away members and consistently wreck the threads here which do have value. Every development topic doesn't have to end up in a discussion of crooked local officials or you trying to belittle people with less experience in development. Why don't you put your life experience to good use instead of constantly antagonizing people? I'm sure there's probably lots of things others could learn from you as a lifelong? Tulsan. Certainly you've done more than sit around and snipe your entire life...oh and aside from concert road trips as well
From custosnox;
I think it woudl go a long way to make new people more welcome here. It seems that when we get new posters that some people try their best to show them that they (they being some of the established posters) are the elite and try and put down anything the new posters say. Of course, the national politics section seems to be an area where this happens quiet a bit. In any case, I really think it would go a long way for posters here to NOT try so hard to prove that they are better then anyone who is new.
Boy, ain't that the truth. When I started sticking my nose into this, I was told that in almost those exact words. I ignored them of course.
National politics is definitely appropriate to the site as well as the other topics. This gives people from outside an insight into the makeup of the area. Easy to see that there is a heavy conservative bias in Tulsa, with a much smaller but very vocal liberal contingent. Then there is me, an extreme (extremist??) moderate, who swings both ways. Bi-political tendencies.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 26, 2010, 10:03:16 PM
Bi-political tendencies.
You'd better watch out, there's a constitutional amendment up this year to outlaw that. ;) (I kid, I kid)
Part of the "problem" is inherent to all communities. There are always in jokes and interpersonal relationships that "outsiders" don't get yet.
It behooves one to lurk for a while to get the feel of a particular community before actively engaging. Some folks say some pretty snarky and offensive things here sometimes, but I don't take it personally. Sometimes, I respond in kind. I don't think the recipients of my snark take it personally anyway. We realize it's all in good fun.
Anyway, I think it's past time for a Sundown Wheat..
I'll take bi-political over homo-partisan.... no offense. 8)
Homo-partisan???
Sounds like a made up word. (??)
Anything like "shrimping"?
(Forget that, we don't wanna go there...)
Constitutional amendment...kewl!! More felonies to commit!
Homo-partisan - Same Partisan
Quote from: JeffM on April 26, 2010, 10:28:14 PM
I'll take bi-political over homo-partisan.... no offense. 8)
"Noth that there's anything wrong with
that"
8ft drift.
I'm already on record with my feelings about the forum. I am a recovering TN addict. Our political passions have seeped into nearly every topic and made the whole weaker for it. I can't find any other forum I'd be a member of however.
This forum IS Tulsa and explains a lot of the city's personality to new visitors.
Quote from: TURobY on April 26, 2010, 02:21:53 PM
I feel that the National & International Politics section is inappropriate on this forum. I rarely see much in that section which directly applies to a Tulsa-based forum. I personally know at least two posters who stopped visiting this forum as soon as the National & International Politics threads became the primary focus for this forum, and I know that my participation on this forum greatly decreased as well. If you want to discuss national politics, there are several other forums in which one can debate. The TulsaNow forum, in my opinion, is not the place.
In one way or anther, National & International Politics can effect Tulsa and surrounding communities. I've not been here long, I've manly done a lot of reading and ticked off a couple folks but so far, what I see I like. Imho, I think it should stay.
Quote from: JeffM on April 26, 2010, 09:16:07 PM
Unfortunately, one thing that bugs me is that the once popular "General Discussion" section has now become the "Other Discussion" section. The "Development & New Business" section and the "PlaniTulsa" sections are separated. Why is this necessary?..... Those sections can easily be combined, while leaving a General Discussion section open for somebody like me, who may post about an apt fire this morning or some mishap at one of Kitchell's clubs.....
They were seperated to give more focus on Plaitulsa but also because it is both a political and development program and doesn't fit squarely in either. It will get reabsorbed at some point. As for the change from General to Other discussion, we were just putting "misc" at the end to help more topics end up in the right category. Note that one of the OP's complaints was things being posted in the wrong place. If it's location and name is a real issue, I have no problem putting it back.
Quote from: JeffM on April 26, 2010, 09:16:07 PM
I am supportive of downtown development and would have been tempted to try to be active within the organization TulsaNow, but this forum descended into groupthink all too often and I felt there were hidden agendas being pursued by certain posters (TulsaNow members?) who could sign in as "Admin" at any time..... I remember having an argument with someone who accidentally signed in as "Admin" for their next 2 posts. Which may explain why I currently take the moderating and censorship decisions on this site with a grain of salt....
I re-read over two years of posts by admin and can't find anything of that nature. Not to say that it didn't happen but I personally can't remember ever arguing with you about anything. There have only ever been one admin of the board at a time and this board exists under the governance of the TulsaNow board but it's day-to-day operations is rarely, if ever discussed by the board. Day-to-day operations of the board are done by the moderators and while some have been board members from time to time, the majority of moderators have been regular posters. For the first several years, moderation was done under the individual's ID but some posters would consistently claim that the moderators were not impartial. Hiding the identities also allows us to promote and demote moderators without constant conspiracies about "why is he/she a moderator" or "why is he/she no long a moderator" conspiracy theories.
Quote from: JeffM on April 26, 2010, 09:16:07 PM
TulsaNow needs to decide whether this forum is going to be a true Public Forum-- a worthy broad based and thoughtful alternative to citydata or the TW comments section; or whether it simply becomes an outlet for the TN organization to express its own narrowly focused views to a handful of like-minded congregants....
IMHO, anyone who can sign in as "Admin" or "Moderator" should have that title clearly listed on their forum profile. This is one of the few sites where the Admin or Moderator titles are kept anonymous.... as long as that continues to be the case, I'll post every now and then about my soccer ideas, or engage in the occasional political pissing match.... but beyond that, no need to engage in detailed discussion the way the forum is currently organized.
My two cents.
If you can be specific about how the organization has an effect on the content of the site I'd like to know what they are. If you haven't notices, TulsaNow rarely speaks on any issues. We bring speakers in, host forums and discussions but we believe the best route is to get the best minds in a room and let them draw the conclusion. One prime example is that many (but not all) of our board members supported the river tax yet our public forum on the topic ended with the "anti" side becoming clearly dominant. Like all of our forums, no-one from our group spoke on the topic discussed.
Everything looks much more organized, thanks Admin! Now we just need to get our active posters back and recruit new ones. :)
Quote from: SXSW on April 27, 2010, 08:47:41 AM
Now we just need to recruit new ones. :)
I gave that a shot when we were a more helpful site. Everyone I successfully got to look was chased off for one reason or another.
I was told by one that he saw no reason to get involved with all the bickering. At first he thought it was funny but then he said it was all he read and he had better things to do. I brought up the site, clicked on "unread", and it was all there was. That was that.
I've read some really good suggestions and I commend SXSW for starting the topic. I also like having someone typically associated with the great "Tulsa brain drain" moving back to Tulsa after college, working here, buying a house, and taking an active role on TNF.
I don't think the forum has become over-used for national and international politics near as much as local content is under-utilized and under-reported. Not to sound snide (take it that way if you like, I simply tend to think more solution-oriented rather than problem-oriented), but how many of the people who have said they no longer post here due to national politics were regularly posting local content or items for local discussion? No one forced them onto the national politics section in the first place. If you get into a polictical discussion, you know it can involve passion and heated discourse.
I've enjoyed the relative free form nature of the forum and hands-off moderation style, but I can see where that's probably allowed some bullying to go on far too long which may have driven off some very creative posters. I'm just as guilty as taking bait as anyone, letting a conversation stray, or getting frustrated and tearing into someone. Personally, I will refrain from that as best I can.
Here's my recommendations:
-See if those of us who pretty much form the content nucleus of the forum will start posting more Tulsa-centric topics, I will attempt to contribute a couple of items daily.
-Moderate the crap out of threads if they start steering too far off the intended course, (unless said discussion winds up talking about Marshall's Beer).
-Move topics to appropriate sections if they are posted in the wrong place.
-National politics, I think you know what you are getting if you go there: gloves off. Some people need a place to blow off steam on national events and politics. I don't know that I'd clamp down too hard just make sure it doesn't creep into local and state politics.
-I agree with Nathan, there are some seriously divergent views on the national topics, but I honestly don't think there's any real ill will. I can call some of the more liberal members here friends due to forum lunches and there being an underlying respect throughout all the verbal jabs we exchange. But, there are some posters whose only purpose is to agitate. Two pet peeves of mine are "Teaba**er" and the constant accusation of "racism" toward conservative views. Could we all agree to back off the stereotypes we've made toward liberalism and conservatism? There's some posters who exisit to do nothing but agitate, moderate the smile out of them.
Those are my simple suggestions.
Quote from: Townsend on April 27, 2010, 09:02:21 AM
I gave that a shot when we were a more helpful site. Everyone I successfully got to look was chased off for one reason or another.
I was told by one that he saw no reason to get involved with all the bickering. At first he thought it was funny but then he said it was all he read and he had better things to do. I brought up the site, clicked on "unread", and it was all there was. That was that.
I stay out of national politics because that seems to be where all the asshats or people who want to act like asshats hang out.
(http://www.steveshallmark.com/webart/products/enlarge/2035.jpg)
I'm not sure how you can filter between "real troublemaker" and "kinda troublemaker" but I'd say it's been better since FB left.
Quote from: Townsend on April 27, 2010, 09:02:21 AM
I gave that a shot when we were a more helpful site. Everyone I successfully got to look was chased off for one reason or another.
I was told by one that he saw no reason to get involved with all the bickering. At first he thought it was funny but then he said it was all he read and he had better things to do. I brought up the site, clicked on "unread", and it was all there was. That was that.
There again, on-line chatter about development, politics, and events brings out all sorts of opinions which can turn into bickering. I don't know how you change that other than to become more of a newspaper format and not encourage any public comments.
Hilarious Pompous Conanus....you just don't want anyone pointing out you bias or your ability to discriminate.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 27, 2010, 10:08:14 AM
There again, on-line chatter about development, politics, and events brings out all sorts of opinions which can turn into bickering. I don't know how you change that other than to become more of a newspaper format and not encourage any public comments.
It wasn't just in politics. Politics was thrown into the other threads along with name calling and accusations. It was a bad day.
As a side note to this topic. I have always wondered what some of the user names on here mean. Should I start another topic and just ask the question or is this something that nobody else wants to know.
It is like trying to figure out personlized tags on cars.
Im a huge Miami Dolphins fan so I have always been DolfanBob.
Just curious.
It's gonna be nearly impossible to separate Tulsa development from politics. Whether it's from a local standpoint (who's the TDA screwing today?) or regional (rail to OKC and its detractors and supporters) or national (how other cities have used TIFS to encourage development) it's all intimately connected. And because TnF is an advocacy group, that points us inescapably towards politics, as well. We're working for something, so that indicates strong opinions which will need to be aired somewhere at some point.
(And on a personal note, I also think our forum reflects the times, somewhat. For better or worse, our politics on all levels are pretty electric right now, so you're going to see that in every interaction, including this board.)
It definitely gets nasty in national/international politics, though, no doubt about that. A lot of it can be narrowed to a few participants, and while some of us can get sucked into the nasty (guilty as charged) I think there's a demonstrable difference between those people who have charged conversations (which is valuable) and those people who are taking out all their rage issues on the keyboard (not valuable). And those folks with rage issues are nomadic and sometimes camp on threads where they don't belong or can't offer substantive opinion.
So? Moderation, my friends. The banhammer. Bring it. Perhaps make a public example of someone. It's what tight-knit communities have been doing since the beginning of time. We can make it work for us, as well. We are mostly adults here -- Recycle Michael aside -- and know how to act in public.
Quote from: we vs us on April 27, 2010, 12:19:34 PM
We are mostly adults here -- Recycle Michael aside -- and know how to act in public.
That is the nicest thing anybody has said about me on this forum.
One of the biggest challenges facing Tulsa is retaining young people. I've gotten the impression that a large part of what drives them off to other places and keeps them there (knowing a few folks who fall into the "grew up here and never want to come back" category) is the political situation here.
We can develop downtown, Brookside, and Cherry Street all we want, but if people continue to see the only media attention cast our way focused on Inhofe, Coburn, and Sullivan and their ilk, their mind is not going to be changed no matter the vibrancy of our nightlife and walkability of our neighborhoods.
One of the few things that brings people back is that it's a pretty decent town to raise kids in, but I'm sorry to say that people with children don't exactly make for the most vibrant social landscape. They tend to be (rightly) more interested in spending time with their kids and working to build up the college fund than help build the things that make a city attractive to young people.
It doesn't help that we don't have the benefit of a large, public, four year college. To use Columbus as an example, being a place that has seen a renaissance in their downtown and close in neighborhoods, a large part of what has made them successful in their efforts is the huge student population at OSU. It's close to the areas they have been trying to revitalize and provides bodies and money to support all the new businesses.
Just think how much harder it would be if we didn't have TU!
The higher education probably warrants a whole web site by itself, but definitely right. Tulsa has received the short end of that stick for a hundred years. Lot of it is the (justified) jealousy of the rest of the state for northeast Oklahoma. Plus the efforts of TU (and even OU) to prevent the competition.
We finally have OSU branch here, but it was a long painful trip.
Full disclosure; I have attended both OSU and TU and like both, so don't take my comment about TU as a disparagement. I am thinking about enrolling in some OU classes so can complete the "tri-fecta".
Quote from: SXSW on April 27, 2010, 08:47:41 AM
Everything looks much more organized, thanks Admin! Now we just need to get our active posters back and recruit new ones. :)
I can try to post more frequently. I applaud banning fotd. He managed to ruin almost everything he touched--I just had less interest in participating in the forum with him as one of the dominant posters.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 27, 2010, 10:03:34 AM
Here's my recommendations:
-See if those of us who pretty much form the content nucleus of the forum will start posting more Tulsa-centric topics, I will attempt to contribute a couple of items daily.
This may be the most productive thing anyone could do. For instance, I haven't see any discussion of the Hertz-DollarThrifty merger. So maybe I'll start a thread. Etc. We can all pitch in on this one.
Quote from: Floyd on April 27, 2010, 11:18:49 PM
This may be the most productive thing anyone could do. For instance, I haven't see any discussion of the Hertz-DollarThrifty merger. So maybe I'll start a thread. Etc. We can all pitch in on this one.
Actually, Floyd, you might search first. I seem to remember a thread already being started about it.
Quote from: Hoss on April 27, 2010, 11:20:37 PM
Actually, Floyd, you might search first. I seem to remember a thread already being started about it.
Fair enough--it's hiding out in "Other Discussion," probably because it's an old thread: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=11789.0.
The point stands, though. I feel like there's less local discussion than there used to be. I'm going to try to help remedy that.
I started a DTAG/Hertz thread in Development.
Quote from: Floyd on April 27, 2010, 11:16:00 PM
I can try to post more frequently. I applaud banning fotd. He managed to ruin almost everything he touched--I just had less interest in participating in the forum with him as one of the dominant posters.
I got tired of his/her/its constant beating down of people: "You people don't know crap about development" yet fotd never offered any insight nor solutions. That and the constant hypocrisy and stereotypes. Good riddance! Anyone else get the general impression fotd spent a lot of time in the corner back in elementary school? Maybe if they'd known more about red food dye back then...
On a lighter note, I'd be glad to see you around more, Floyd.
Wow. Got banned ay ?
I seem to remember a FriendlyBear and a Bicycle nut being banned. Are there any others that I dont know about ?
Seems that could be another topic starter....hmmm
Quote from: Conan71 on April 28, 2010, 08:21:20 AM
I got tired of his/her/its constant beating down of people: "You people don't know crap about development" yet fotd never offered any insight nor solutions. That and the constant hypocrisy and stereotypes. Good riddance! Anyone else get the general impression fotd spent a lot of time in the corner back in elementary school? Maybe if they'd known more about red food dye back then...
On a lighter note, I'd be glad to see you around more, Floyd.
Thanks! It's been long enough since I've lived in Tulsa that I sometimes feel like a carpetbagger on the forum--but where I can contribute, I will. I'm still in town 4-6 times/year and keep up, so maybe I get grandfathered in.
Quote from: Floyd on April 28, 2010, 10:31:35 AM
Thanks! It's been long enough since I've lived in Tulsa that I sometimes feel like a carpetbagger on the forum--but where I can contribute, I will. I'm still in town 4-6 times/year and keep up, so maybe I get grandfathered in.
At least you provided that information up front, unlike a certain hot dog/bratwurst topping we see around here...
Quote from: Floyd on April 28, 2010, 10:31:35 AM
Thanks! It's been long enough since I've lived in Tulsa that I sometimes feel like a carpetbagger on the forum--but where I can contribute, I will. I'm still in town 4-6 times/year and keep up, so maybe I get grandfathered in.
we haven't ran Dback off yet, so I think your good
Quote from: DolfanBob on April 28, 2010, 10:16:59 AM
Wow. Got banned ay ?
I seem to remember a FriendlyBear and a Bicycle nut being banned. Are there any others that I dont know about ?
Seems that could be another topic starter....hmmm
Davaz was banned a few dozen times. He used to live here and got cut off in traffic once so felt the need to complain for 3 years about how Tulsa sucked.
There was also some Doctor Disco guy who would show up every few months and would almost immediately send me a PM or reply to my comments with "F___ you!" for reasons I still don't understand. I think he was an OKC person.
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 28, 2010, 01:08:43 PM
There was also some Doctor Disco guy who would show up every few months and would almost immediately send me a PM or reply to my comments with "F___ you!" for reasons I still don't understand. I think he was an OKC person.
Well now I know how I shall greet you at ever meeting.
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 28, 2010, 01:08:43 PM
Davaz was banned a few dozen times. He used to live here and got cut off in traffic once so felt the need to complain for 3 years about how Tulsa sucked.
There was also some Doctor Disco guy who would show up every few months and would almost immediately send me a PM or reply to my comments with "F___ you!" for reasons I still don't understand. I think he was an OKC person.
One member had a penchant for sending personal messages that said: "Eat me sh!tlicker" and "Go love your whore". Nice guy.
JDB (rest his soul) had a fairly foul temper on him as well.
Because I use my real name, I've gotten some fun personal emails from folks that think gmail and yahoo are anonymous. I guess it's fair. They know who I am, and now I know who they are.
I try not to offend anyone and though I love good political banter, my goal is to learn and offer my opinion, that's all. I enjoy everyone's participation. I learn from the thinkers, and am entertained by the rest. Like minded people are boring. ;D
Quote from: Gaspar on April 28, 2010, 01:51:25 PM
Like minded people are boring. ;D
+1 and if people can be adults and not resort to name calling even better :P
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 27, 2010, 06:16:46 PM
The higher education probably warrants a whole web site by itself, but definitely right. Tulsa has received the short end of that stick for a hundred years. Lot of it is the (justified) jealousy of the rest of the state for northeast Oklahoma. Plus the efforts of TU (and even OU) to prevent the competition.
We finally have OSU branch here, but it was a long painful trip.
Full disclosure; I have attended both OSU and TU and like both, so don't take my comment about TU as a disparagement. I am thinking about enrolling in some OU classes so can complete the "tri-fecta".
This is one of my primary issues with Tulsa and one I really want to see the city prioritize. The OSU campus downtown has great potential but it needs more community support as well as support from the OSU administration in Stillwater. For a time it looked like that was the plan and things were moving forward to have 20,000 students downtown by 2020. Can you imagine how awesome that would be?? Well it's 2010 and there are only 6,000 students, all commuters. Something changed and growth slowed down while other local universities like OU-Tulsa, TU, and NSU expanded greatly but not in the way OSU could as far as its impact on downtown. OSU-Tulsa is our only true 4 year public university that serves as an urban complement to the programs in Stillwater with more of a graduate/research/health sciences focus. I would go so far as to say the ultimate sustained success of downtown depends on OSU-Tulsa. The more discussion we can have here about it the better, and then hopefully we can affect some change or influence.
Quote from: SXSW on April 28, 2010, 03:01:22 PM
I would go so far as to say the ultimate sustained success of downtown depends on OSU-Tulsa.
I would go farther to say that the ultimate sustained success of our city as something more than a place to go when you're about to have kids depends on it. Down that path lies ever increasing suburbia and an ever draining tax base in Tulsa proper.
Quote from: nathanm on April 28, 2010, 03:29:08 PM
I would go farther to say that the ultimate sustained success of our city as something more than a place to go when you're about to have kids depends on it. Down that path lies ever increasing suburbia and an ever draining tax base in Tulsa proper.
Not entirely true. There are a lot of young families living within the midtown area.
Quote from: nathanm on April 28, 2010, 03:29:08 PM
I would go farther to say that the ultimate sustained success of our city as something more than a place to go when you're about to have kids depends on it. Down that path lies ever increasing suburbia and an ever draining tax base in Tulsa proper.
Disagree--I view Tulsa as a place where you can actually live in the city with kids, moreso than Dallas, Houston, Chicago, and of course SF, LA and NYC. But I definitely agree that for this forum to be successful, it needs to focus on how the city is changing for the better in all these regards.
Quote from: Floyd on April 28, 2010, 06:57:43 PM
Disagree--I view Tulsa as a place where you can actually live in the city with kids, moreso than Dallas, Houston, Chicago, and of course SF, LA and NYC.
I agree with you, personally. A lot of people see anything north of about 71st as crime-ridden and Tulsa Public Schools as lacking, though. Hence the housing developments growing like weeds in south Tulsa, Bixby, Broken Arrow, Jenks, and Owasso. The lion's share of new rooftops has been in the outlying districts mainly because the school districts are seen as better.
Quote from: custosnox on April 28, 2010, 12:23:20 PM
we haven't ran Dback off yet, so I think your good
I didn't know you guys were trying to run me off. ;) Wow miss a day, miss alot!
Like Floyd I haven't lived in Tulsa for a number of years but still have alot of friends and family in the metro area that I try to stay in touch with, and even though the sying is "You can't go home" Tulsa will always be my home being born and raised there in '63 until I moved to Phoenix in '98.
As for the very few I disagree with here, I just try to make my point and discuss it, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. When I bring something up I try to support it with facts, and if someone tries to call me out on some thing I just ask them to give me an example. (And there is proof enough in a certain thread)
Anyway, I enjoy seeing whats going on in Tulsa and glad to see the changes in the downtown area for the postive, Drillers, BOk, Blue Dome, the Brady District and especially the rebirth of the Mayo Hotel. If I can swing it when I come out in September, I'm hoping to stay there.
Where to start....
I started pitching that grumble about 1968. Like I said, Tulsa has always been short changed for higher ed. On a bigger scale, the entire state secondary system has always been shortchanged. What isn't short changed is football. OU football.
There has been talk in this state ad nauseum since the dustbowl about how to create jobs, economic development, getting our kids to stay, etc. Well, right to work sure didn't do it, now did it?
We have known for a FACT that every dollar invested in higher education pays back starting immediately and continuing for life! Yet, we still load our kids up with massive debt for a degree. While OKC spends about a quarter of a billion dollars to buy a basketball team. And Tulsa does just about the same.
Yeah, I hear we are getting some money back on the Crashship. We could get 10 times that on a few thousand college educated kids.
Suppose we paid for kids tuition. $200 million like for 2025. OU costs $7500 for 30 hours, so BS degree is about 30k. Double that for all the other costs. 3,330 kids paid to go through school.
Heck of a bargain.
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 28, 2010, 07:55:26 PM
Where to start....
I started pitching that grumble about 1968. Like I said, Tulsa has always been short changed for higher ed. On a bigger scale, the entire state secondary system has always been shortchanged. What isn't short changed is football. OU football.
There has been talk in this state ad nauseum since the dustbowl about how to create jobs, economic development, getting our kids to stay, etc. Well, right to work sure didn't do it, now did it?
We have known for a FACT that every dollar invested in higher education pays back starting immediately and continuing for life! Yet, we still load our kids up with massive debt for a degree. While OKC spends about a quarter of a billion dollars to buy a basketball team. And Tulsa does just about the same.
Yeah, I hear we are getting some money back on the Crashship. We could get 10 times that on a few thousand college educated kids.
Suppose we paid for kids tuition. $200 million like for 2025. OU costs $7500 for 30 hours, so BS degree is about 30k. Double that for all the other costs. 3,330 kids paid to go through school.
Heck of a bargain.
You are pretty much right on when the change to Tulsa took place. During that time is when bussing was begining to start in TPS. Downtown and midtown were forever changed with the construction of the IDL, 244, and the BA. It basically diveded mid town from the IDL to Lewis and 15th street to Admiral into islands of population. You had what was called "White Flight" from the arear north of downtown to the south and east. During that time Northland suffered a roof collapse from which it never recovered, South Roads and Southland were built draining retail from downtown as well. They built East Central, then Mason at 61st and Peoria, and the new Central High School near Gillcrease Hills as well as other schools to the east and south as this area was growing, and things settled for a period of time. They started building Eastland Mall in 74 or 75. At the same time Ford built the glass plant and Woodland Hills started construction. At that time if you went to Union, I think after 7th grade you had to go to Tulsa or BA for highschool. (I could be wrong) Ford and Woodland really fueld the growth to the south and to BA, Eastland failed when almost all of the anchor stores pulled out and went to Woodland, and the area stopped growing right at that corner. In 1979 TPS closed Mason do to a lack of enrollment, sophomores and juniors were divide amongst Edison and Memorial, the seniors got to choose the school they wanted and whenthe football coaches went to Nathan Hale, the team followed, and won the 4A Championship against Mid West City. (I graduated Hale in 81) Any way it was during the time of the late 70's into the 80's that TPS lost students to Union, BA, then Jenks, and in the 90's to Owasso. They had newer schools and more money than TPS. To me that's what hurt TPS, and from that population shift it's hard to recover and the percieved notions, I remember when goining norht of 11th street was bad and as everyone wnet southeast so did the notion, to me that is why Southroads/Southland had to reinvent themselves.
Anyway, just my $.02
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 28, 2010, 07:55:26 PM
Yeah, I hear we are getting some money back on the Crashship.
That "Crashship" is one of the amenities that will likely help keep young people here. Without amenities, we'll pay to educate them and they'll go somewhere else and their new home will reap the benefits.
Quote from: nathanm on April 29, 2010, 12:53:06 AM
That "Crashship" is one of the amenities that will likely help keep young people here. Without amenities, we'll pay to educate them and they'll go somewhere else and their new home will reap the benefits.
I agree. Its not an either or situation, we need both.
Quote from: nathanm on April 28, 2010, 07:31:00 PM
I agree with you, personally. A lot of people see anything north of about 71st as crime-ridden and Tulsa Public Schools as lacking, though. Hence the housing developments growing like weeds in south Tulsa, Bixby, Broken Arrow, Jenks, and Owasso. The lion's share of new rooftops has been in the outlying districts mainly because the school districts are seen as better.
Thousands of people live north of 71st Street who disagree with the notion it's crime-ridden. Over 80% of my adult life has been spent north of 61st St. as well as about 1/2 of my childhood, I've certainly never thought of it that way.
I will agree that the suburban schools have a better image than TPS and that's driven more people to the burbs, plus the dream of owning a brand new home (other than the Tuscan nightmares people love to toss into ranch and traditional style neighborhoods) adds into that equation as well.
TPS still has in the neighborhood of 47,000 or so students. They have some great magnet and specialty programs. Tulsa also is fortunate to have many very good private schools as well which keeps families within the general TPS boundaries.
Quote from: dbacks fan on April 28, 2010, 09:05:44 PM
Eastland failed when almost all of the anchor stores pulled out and went to Woodland, and the area stopped growing right at that corner.
IIRC, Eastland was started around 1972 and the project was abandoned before construction started on Woodland. Population growth was much slower than expected toward that part of Tulsa was what I was always told. I think they finally did finish it around '86 or '88. It's entirely possible I could be off by three or four years, but I was thinking the mechanical equipment was dated around 1972. I was surprised at the lack of reliable info on it when I Googled it. Anyone else know anything for certain.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 29, 2010, 10:35:24 AM
IIRC, Eastland was started around 1972 and the project was abandoned before construction started on Woodland. Population growth was much slower than expected toward that part of Tulsa was what I was always told. I think they finally did finish it around '86 or '88. It's entirely possible I could be off by three or four years, but I was thinking the mechanical equipment was dated around 1972. I was surprised at the lack of reliable info on it when I Googled it. Anyone else know anything for certain.
It was finished in '89 when I used to go to the movies downstairs.
Good place to go, the theater was never busy.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 29, 2010, 10:35:24 AM
IIRC, Eastland was started around 1972 and the project was abandoned before construction started on Woodland. Population growth was much slower than expected toward that part of Tulsa was what I was always told. I think they finally did finish it around '86 or '88. It's entirely possible I could be off by three or four years, but I was thinking the mechanical equipment was dated around 1972. I was surprised at the lack of reliable info on it when I Googled it. Anyone else know anything for certain.
I'm not sure when it was finished, but it went through several developers getting there. Supposedly, the reason that it had the tent type roof is because the original builders had wanted a circus type theme. I worked there for a short time when I turned 19 at the mall itself and at JC Penny's. Even did a short stint at one of the burger joints there. I don't think the anchor stores pulling out is what made it fail. It was faultering before then and couldn't keep the numbers up at any time other then christmas time. Though I think the death blow was when Penny's pulled out. The area just never had the economy to really support it.
Quote from: Townsend on April 29, 2010, 10:39:40 AM
...the theater was never busy.
I disagree. I was at the opening weekends for Home Alone 2, That Darn Cat, and Star Trek: Generations there, and I remember having to sit on the front row for each of them. :P
Quote from: TURobY on April 29, 2010, 11:01:50 AM
I disagree. I was at the opening weekends for Home Alone 2, That Darn Cat, and Star Trek: Generations there, and I remember having to sit on the front row for each of them. :P
I watched the first showing of Star Trek: Generations on the day it was released there. Was also first in line (Okay, I was a really big geek back then), but I don't think there were more then 30 or 40 people at that showing.
Quote from: custosnox on April 29, 2010, 11:07:25 AM
I watched the first showing of Star Trek: Generations on the day it was released there. Was also first in line (Okay, I was a really big geek back then), but I don't think there were more then 30 or 40 people at that showing.
Now that I think about it, I think Generations and That Darn Cat were both sneak previews (I won tickets on the radio -- KHITS -- to both of those). That may explain why there were so many people.
Can't you trekkies get along?
don't dis da trek
Dudes, Generations was totally 1994.
Way after my time at Eastland.
RM, "trekkers"
I watch Jepordy....Does that mean I'm a Trebekkie......
Dates are about right for Eastland. One big problem on the growth in that direction was the "powers that be" wanted to go to Jenks, so they wouldn't put in the infrastructure necessary (water and sewer primarily) claiming it was "too hard" because of the shallow rock in the area making it too difficult to lay the lines. I know this for a fact because that was the story I got from city hall during the '70's while trying to buy some land out just past Eastland.
And yet, the could sooo easily cut through the rock down Yale, Harvard, Lewis all the way to the river? Riiggghhhhttttt!
Somewhere along the line after they did get the mall going, Tulsa allowed all those cheesy, crap apartments to be built right next door. And Simon Malls got hold of it somewhere along the line and would let the punk gangs from those apartments run loose through the mall without even trying to fix the problem.
All the old equipment - there really wasn't any in the concrete frame until they finally finished building it out. Some plumbing that had to go in, then underground, but mostly the thing sat as an empty shell through the 70's.
And Simon also owns Woodland Hills for the last many years and look how much decay is occurring there. And probably my biggest complaint about those clowns was the way they forced the quality pizza place (Mazzio's) out to make way for that crappy place that is there now. Just a big round flat grease burger. Blech!
Quote from: Townsend on April 29, 2010, 11:48:10 AM
Dudes, Generations was totally 1994.
Way after my time at Eastland.
RM, "trekkers"
Trekkers are the d-bags of Trek fandom. Trekkies are the real fans.
In 1994 my phone# was NCC-1701
I invite anyone to try and beat that.
Is it my imagination, or did this forum suddenly become a much better place the last few days? More local topics, less in-fighting, and a respectful tone all the way around.
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 29, 2010, 12:51:25 PM
In 1994 my phone# was NCC-1701
I invite anyone to try and beat that.
If you were a real trekkie you would have never given it up :D
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 29, 2010, 12:51:25 PM
Trekkers are the d-bags of Trek fandom. Trekkies are the real fans.
In 1994 my phone# was NCC-1701
I invite anyone to try and beat that.
Out of curiosity I did a reverse lookup on that number. To my shock it pulled up my ex fiance's name.
It's your imagination.
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 29, 2010, 12:51:25 PM
Trekkers are the d-bags of Trek fandom. Trekkies are the real fans.
In 1994 my phone# was NCC-1701
I invite anyone to try and beat that.
You missing that "F-You" PM? I'm happy to oblige you Lucas-spooner.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 29, 2010, 12:56:43 PM
Is it my imagination, or did this forum suddenly become a much better place the last few days? More local topics, less in-fighting, and a respectful tone all the way around.
Wow, I wonder why that is?... ;D
Quote from: custosnox on April 29, 2010, 12:59:00 PM
If you were a real trekkie you would have never given it up :D
I moved out of SWBELL into GTE territory and you couldn't take numbers with you back then. I did turned the number over to a Star Trek based BBS though.
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 29, 2010, 01:25:27 PM
I moved out of SWBELL into GTE territory and you couldn't take numbers with you back then. I did turned the number over to a Star Trek based BBS though.
Really? Never saw it on the local BBS lists. Too bad, I would have been all over it. Still, a true trekkie would have refused to move so that they could keep the trektastic number. :D
Quote from: Conan71 on April 29, 2010, 10:35:24 AM
IIRC, Eastland was started around 1972 and the project was abandoned before construction started on Woodland. Population growth was much slower than expected toward that part of Tulsa was what I was always told. I think they finally did finish it around '86 or '88. It's entirely possible I could be off by three or four years, but I was thinking the mechanical equipment was dated around 1972. I was surprised at the lack of reliable info on it when I Googled it. Anyone else know anything for certain.
Eastland Mall opened in 1984. I was still living in Tulsa at that time, but moved away later that year, and I remember going to it when it first opened so it had to be 1984.
Quote from: custosnox on April 29, 2010, 01:29:38 PM
Really? Never saw it on the local BBS lists. Too bad, I would have been all over it. Still, a true trekkie would have refused to move so that they could keep the trektastic number. :D
Neutral Zone BBS
And at 17, I had little say in the matter.
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 30, 2010, 01:21:43 PM
Neutral Zone BBS
And at 17, I had little say in the matter.
lol did I mention that I moved out when I ws 17? Okay, so I was a rebelious geek. I don't remember the name but lord, that was how many years ago? But then this was also about two years before I had a computer setup to really get into BBS's, so it might have went to the wayside by the time I got involved.
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 30, 2010, 01:21:43 PM
Neutral Zone BBS
Hey! I remember seeing that on a BBS list back when I was young and living in Arkansas. Probably never called it, though. Long distance was expensive.
Hmm, from textfiles.com:
Quote
918-622-1701
TULSA, OK The Undiscovered Country, Tulsa Area, Tulsa Hub A
(1995-1997) Ed Grinnell
Looks like somebody got some use from it.
Quote from: nathanm on April 30, 2010, 06:48:33 PM
Hey! I remember seeing that on a BBS list back when I was young and living in Arkansas. Probably never called it, though. Long distance was expensive.
Hmm, from textfiles.com:
Looks like somebody got some use from it.
Hmm.. I think I got my trek BBS's backwards.
I helped a friend run "The Dugout" and had my first ever chat session (which got uncomfortable) on "The Looking Glass"
I remember "The Looking Glass".