This is from the tomorrow's local newspaper...
Sunday: Tulsa trash may be burned again
By BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
10/10/2009
Tulsa may soon begin sending most of its residential trash to the burn plant on the west side of the Arkansas River.
The city recently accepted bids for the recovery of energy and recycling material from its waste, and an internal review panel is recommending that a contract be awarded to the Walter B. Hall Resource Recovery Facility.
The city's trash board is expected to hold a special meeting this month to make a final decision. A meeting that was originally set for Friday was cancelled for further legal review of the bids.
While city officials were unavailable to discuss the matter, Public Works Assistant Director Ken Hill said back in March when the bidding documents were being drafted that the city was eager to be back in business with the burn plant, if the numbers worked out.
"It's closer to the center of the city and all of the routes, so it's easier on the trash haulers, with less wear and tear on the trucks and less mileage," he said then. "And of course, it would be an opportunity for the city to be more green, with less trash going to the landfill."
Read the complete story in Sunday's World.
The public works department and the TARE board did a good job handling this issue. They took their time to prepare the bid packets, met with all the potential bidders to answer any questions, then received excellent bids.
If they award the bid to Covanta (and I believe they will soon), The city should save about well over five dollars per ton on disposal cost for the 150,000 tons they dispose of each year from Tulsa residential routes.
I saw the headlines on this. I have to wonder about the impact this will have on air qualities. I'll admit that I haven't kept up on the issue, but it would seem that this would cause problems.
There are a few issues, but Tulsa was on the dirty air list before this plant was built and got off the list a few years after it opened. The steam they sell to Sunoco has to be generated somehow and the WTE operation means there are fewer natural gas fired units boiling water.
It is pretty regulated and has to meet very stringent continual testing. One thing I like about it is that it is so regulated. We have no idea what is buried each day at a landfill.
It also doesn't really cause pollution...we do. When we throw away things that don't burn well (like batteries and plastics), there are some emissions. This plant has installed excellent control measures, but there are still traces.
I really follow this plant. I know all the management people and all the regulators. The reports are public record and I make a point to research them.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 10, 2009, 05:38:45 PM
There are a few issues, but Tulsa was on the dirty air list before this plant was built and got off the list a few years after it opened. The steam they sell to Sunoco has to be generated somehow and the WTE operation means there are fewer natural gas fired units boiling water.
It is pretty regulated and has to meet very stringent continual testing. One thing I like about it is that it is so regulated. We have no idea what is buried each day at a landfill.
It also doesn't really cause pollution...we do. When we throw away things that don't burn well (like batteries and plastics), there are some emissions. This plant has installed excellent control measures, but there are still traces.
I really follow this plant. I know all the management people and all the regulators. The reports are public record and I make a point to research them.
Whose trash are they burning now?
Quote from: custosnox on October 10, 2009, 04:51:16 PM
I saw the headlines on this. I have to wonder about the impact this will have on air qualities. I'll admit that I haven't kept up on the issue, but it would seem that this would cause problems.
Landfills emit gasses as a by-product of decomposition. Drive by the landfill on 46th North some time. Around on the south side of the plant is a flare tower which helps burn off the methane gas generated underneath the landfill. Quite a common sight at large landfills. I do know there are projects around the country either being proposed or in use, to put waste gasses like this to use to make energy for other processes. One of the cooler projects I've gotten to be a part of is a proposed project in North Carolina where they are going to construct an ethanol plant next to a landfill and use the waste methane gas to fire the boilers for the ethanol plant which will pretty much make the ethanol plant self-sustaining and would make it much more carbon-neutral (not that I'm a carbon footprint nut at all, however I do like sustainable technologies and waste heat/fuel re-use).
I have no idea how much of a difference there is in emissions from land-filling vs. burning, but I do believe they have a pretty good scrubber system on the TTEP here in Tulsa.
They don't sort this trash before burning it and you're content with that?
The burden is placed on the citizens, through a monthly fee, through a half-implemented recycling system, where the average citizen has to be actively involved in their own waste management practices.
So, what about #5 plastics?
Are batteries allowed in the green bins?
I recycle, my bin's out there 2x a month, but I still see some serious issues with my #5 plastic and other people's batteries getting incinerated.
Quote from: PepePeru on October 12, 2009, 09:48:26 AM
They don't sort this trash before burning it and you're content with that?
The burden is placed on the citizens, through a monthly fee, through a half-implemented recycling system, where the average citizen has to be actively involved in their own waste management practices.
So, what about #5 plastics?
Are batteries allowed in the green bins?
I recycle, my bin's out there 2x a month, but I still see some serious issues with my #5 plastic and other people's batteries getting incinerated.
Yes they don't sort, and I don't know about #5 plastic, but I know the typical types (1 and 2) burn extremely hot and extremely well in the T2E plant so if unsorted plastic gets in, it's actually good for the plant to some degree (pun unintentional). Also, the plant had a magnet in it which pulled out the steel to be sold.
I think the incinerator is better than a landfill but I think they should sort out all recyclables and toxic items. Also, does the cost of the energy created by this plant get refunded to the tax payer? I doubt it. I worry that this incinerator will make the city not encourage recycling because of all the money involved in this plant.
Quote from: OpenYourEyesTulsa on October 12, 2009, 01:43:31 PM
I think the incinerator is better than a landfill but I think they should sort out all recyclables and toxic items. Also, does the cost of the energy created by this plant get refunded to the tax payer? I doubt it. I worry that this incinerator will make the city not encourage recycling because of all the money involved in this plant.
The only energy created by the plant is steam that is sold to Sun Refinery. Far as I know, they have never sold any power to the grid and the turbines have only been used for tests.
This is good news......
Quote from: PepePeru on October 12, 2009, 09:48:26 AM
So, what about #5 plastics?
Are batteries allowed in the green bins?
Burning of any plastic is a concern. Here is an excellent research paper for you to consider...
http://www.trincoll.edu/~cgeiss/ENVS_149/reading%20material/waste/pl_comb.htm
Batteries also do not burn well. That is one of the reasons that The M.e.t. collects all types of batteries at every center seven days a week. We lost $15,000 doing that, but consider every battery that we take out of the burn plant or landfill a victory.
I'd have to see the nuts and bolts on the financials on this transaction:
As I understand it, they NEED our trash to operate. And we are not sold on the idea that causing more airborn pollution by burning out trash is a good thing. Thus, can't we negotiate the price on shipping our trash to them?
If they want to charge us ~$12 a ton (whatever the numbers are) hoping to generate a 20% profit, lets counter at $10 a ton so they can take a 10% profit (or whatever). It seems like we have the negotiating chip. The worst possible outcome from our perspective is we negotiate to the point that they walk away and we are left with the status quo (when we aren't convinced we want to change anyway).
I need to know the nuts and bolts. How much money are WE going to save (and will I save that money) and have we negotiated to the best of our ability given the options available. When you have multiple parties that want your business, make them haggle!
I'd also be interested to see other details: emissions reports for the burner when it was operating. How many cars worth of pollution does it equate to (a number people can relate to)? Auxiliary costs of operating it: change in pickup schedule, expense of disposing of the possibly hazardous ash, who has to hold insurance? What effect does this have to discourage recycling efforts?
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 12, 2009, 02:38:05 PM
Burning of any plastic is a concern. Here is an excellent research paper for you to consider...
http://www.trincoll.edu/~cgeiss/ENVS_149/reading%20material/waste/pl_comb.htm
Batteries also do not burn well. That is one of the reasons that The M.e.t. collects all types of batteries at every center seven days a week. We lost $15,000 doing that, but consider every battery that we take out of the burn plant or landfill a victory.
You really think Joe Tulsa is going to care that much about dropping off his batteries at the M.e.t. Center?
Again, the burden on Joe Tulsa to do the right and responsible thing and take an active role in reducing his impact on the environment. It's seems hard enough to get people to recycle the easy things here, much less remembering to take his batteries to a M.e.t. Center.
It seems like $15,000 is a pretty small price to pay to keep batteries from being burned for energy...especially when they don't burn? Really, how much energy can you get from burning a battery.
It boggles my mind this goes on.
So Pepe...what do you do with your #5 plastics and your batteries?
I just don't understand why Tulsa doesn't go the way of other cities her size and provide the means for recycling at the curb. Arlington VA does it. If I remember correctly, didn't a poll indicate a majority of Tulsans if given the means to do it without having to trek across town, would recycle using bins provided by their refuse provider (City and/or contractor)? Maybe I'm crazy. I'll admit right now the only thing I'm recycling is newspaper, but honestly, I don't want to have to trek across town (using gas in the process) just to dispose of my recycles. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 12, 2009, 04:06:20 PM
So Pepe...what do you do with your #5 plastics and your batteries?
Considering you make us take off our lids (#5 plastic) on pop bottles, you don't yogurt containers, QT cups (#5 plastic) I see all over town, I throw them away.
I keep my batteries in a baggie until such a time that the planets and stars align that I remember I have a baggie full of batteries and that I will be driving by a M.e.t. Center and drop them off.
That is why I typed in my original post, "my #5 plastic and others batteries"
Believe me if you had another suggestion for me to recycle my #5 plastic I would do it.
Same with my paperboard products (beer boxes, cereal boxes etc). I still save it, on the off-chance that I actually drive out by Sand Springs, ( I still haven't ascertained by Sand Springs gets to recycle paper & cardboard and Tulsa does not) I drop it off there. If you have another suggestion for that, I'm all eyes.
Now, I am obviously not "Joe Tulsa" and I do take an active role in my waste management practices. It would be nice if others would do the same, but I'm also realistic. I read comments on Tulsa World. I see how much trash is just laying on the ground in this City. Joe Tulsa doesn't give a crap.
Hey I lived in apartments for the first 2.5 years in this City, you talk about a PITA to recycle there. So, sure these bins are great to be able to toss it in there, but I'm still left with piles of trash in my house, b/c I for one, happen to give a crap.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 12, 2009, 03:42:52 PM
I'd have to see the nuts and bolts on the financials on this transaction:
As I understand it, they NEED our trash to operate. And we are not sold on the idea that causing more airborn pollution by burning out trash is a good thing. Thus, can't we negotiate the price on shipping our trash to them?
If they want to charge us ~$12 a ton (whatever the numbers are) hoping to generate a 20% profit, lets counter at $10 a ton so they can take a 10% profit (or whatever). It seems like we have the negotiating chip. The worst possible outcome from our perspective is we negotiate to the point that they walk away and we are left with the status quo (when we aren't convinced we want to change anyway).
I need to know the nuts and bolts. How much money are WE going to save (and will I save that money) and have we negotiated to the best of our ability given the options available. When you have multiple parties that want your business, make them haggle!
I'd also be interested to see other details: emissions reports for the burner when it was operating. How many cars worth of pollution does it equate to (a number people can relate to)? Auxiliary costs of operating it: change in pickup schedule, expense of disposing of the possibly hazardous ash, who has to hold insurance? What effect does this have to discourage recycling efforts?
FYI- they are making steam now so they are getting burnables from somewhere, they may not need our trash as bad as we need them. Until RM chimes in and says what he knows of what's being burned there now and whether or not it's sufficient steam production for Holley to keep it's own boilers shut down, it's hard to know if Covanta really has a "demand" for our trash. That ball may be entirely in their court.
Quote from: Hoss on October 12, 2009, 04:12:05 PM
I just don't understand why Tulsa doesn't go the way of other cities her size and provide the means for recycling at the curb. Arlington VA does it. If I remember correctly, didn't a poll indicate a majority of Tulsans if given the means to do it without having to trek across town, would recycle using bins provided by their refuse provider (City and/or contractor)? Maybe I'm crazy. I'll admit right now the only thing I'm recycling is newspaper, but honestly, I don't want to have to trek across town (using gas in the process) just to dispose of my recycles. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way.
We've got 2x a month curb-side in my 'hood. I assumed that was available city-wide, is it not?
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2009, 04:29:59 PM
We've got 2x a month curb-side in my 'hood. I assumed that was available city-wide, is it not?
Not for where I live. I think it's only available if the City is the one doing your refuse. We have a contractor. Whatever happened to the city going to do all the trash city-wide?
Edit: Never mind; I see where the City's website says it's available city wide, so I think I shall try and sign up.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2009, 04:29:15 PM
Until RM chimes in and says what he knows of what's being burned there now and whether or not it's sufficient steam production for Holley to keep it's own boilers shut down, it's hard to know if Covanta really has a "demand" for our trash. That ball may be entirely in their court.
They have been barely open for a while, burning commercial waste on a spot basis and getting small amounts of suburb residential waste. They now offer a competitive price to the landfill and the haulers like the burn plant. It is closer to the majority of businesses than the landfill reducing fuel costs and operational hours. It has easy access and a paved road compared to the landfill mud.
They have three boilers and can operate them one at a time, but really need Tulsa's trash to run the whole plant and make a decent profit.
Quote from: PepePeru on October 12, 2009, 04:21:39 PM
Same with my paperboard products (beer boxes, cereal boxes etc). I still save it, on the off-chance that I actually drive out by Sand Springs, ( I still haven't ascertained by Sand Springs gets to recycle paper & cardboard and Tulsa does not) I drop it off there. If you have another suggestion for that, I'm all eyes.
I take my cardboard to the MET center in Broken Arrow. They don't take pizza boxes though and that is 50% of my cardboard. I have always taken my batteries and used up ink cartridges to Best Buy. They have a recycling bin by the exit. Best Buy also takes old computers, televisions, monitors, cell phones, etc.
Unfortunately Best Buy takes TVs up to 32". We bought a new TV recently at BB but have an older CRT 33" that is inop to dispose of.
Television recyclers, from the M.e.t. website...
http://www.metrecycle.com/c/directory/type/electronics/tvs/
A 33 inch television will probably cost you $15 to drop-off.
I hope this trash burning plant will not be anything like the trash burning plant Columbus, Ohio had on the south side of the city- that thing really stunk. They have since shut it down. Recycling is expensive, in fact "going green" is always very costly, when you'd think it'll be cheaper. My employer went "green" back in 2007 by recycling old paper but dropped out of the project when tax credits were lost and it got to be too expensive to do.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 13, 2009, 02:50:42 PM
Television recyclers, from the M.e.t. website...
http://www.metrecycle.com/c/directory/type/electronics/tvs/
A 33 inch television will probably cost you $15 to drop-off.
That's not bad- Best Buy charged $20.00 to take your old TV set -or it was free if you bought a new TV set from them at a certain size & price. I duuno what they do now. I remember the good 'ol days when we could just chuck a old TV set out at the curb for the trash man for free. BTW those new flat screen thin TV sets use alot more power than the old CRT sets- The wattage is higher and just walking by a display of TV sets in a store and you can feel the heat from them. If they really want to save electric we should go back to CRT's.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 13, 2009, 02:50:42 PM
Television recyclers, from the M.e.t. website...
http://www.metrecycle.com/c/directory/type/electronics/tvs/
A 33 inch television will probably cost you $15 to drop-off.
Thanks.
Our trash hauler would haul it for $10 but we had to break the CRT, not something I was looking forward to doing and then have them not take it for some reason.
Please don't break the CRT. It contains many pounds of lead to protect you from radiation. We don't want to burn or bury lead.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 13, 2009, 08:06:37 PM
Please don't break the CRT. It contains many pounds of lead to protect you from radiation. We don't want to burn or bury lead.
I won't. I knew there was stuff in there that should stay in there.
I just checked the model number (previously just put a tape across the screen diagonal) and it turns out it's a 32" so we should be able to take it to Best Buy along with $10.
Quote from: sauerkraut on October 13, 2009, 03:52:34 PM
BTW those new flat screen thin TV sets use alot more power than the old CRT sets- The wattage is higher and just walking by a display of TV sets in a store and you can feel the heat from them. If they really want to save electric we should go back to CRT's.
Try again and do some research before making claims. Power consumption depends on size (many people have a 40"+ tv now, which will draw more power then your old 27" CRT), type (Plasma, which is not in wide use, tends to be less energy efficent then LCD) and other factors.
Here is a quick article on the subject just in case you decide you want to actually educate yourself.
http://www.economicallysound.com/tvs_as_energy_hogs.html
Quote from: Red Arrow on October 13, 2009, 07:39:35 PM
Thanks.
Our trash hauler would haul it for $10 but we had to break the CRT, not something I was looking forward to doing and then have them not take it for some reason.
Cover your eyes Recyclemichael:
Oh, but the thought of dropping it off the roof or blasting it with a 12 gauge sure does sound cool. ;)
Quote from: Conan71 on October 14, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
Cover your eyes Recyclemichael:
Oh, but the thought of dropping it off the roof or blasting it with a 12 gauge sure does sound cool. ;)
Back in the late eighties after I graduated HS and got my first apartment, I had some friends from Spartan that liked to 'party' a little much.
One night we tried to deep six an old TV in the Marina Apartment Lake.
Needless to say, those tubes are quite buoyant.
That is, until one of us (yours truly) waded out with an aluminum baseball bat and 'relieved the buoyancy'.
Quote from: custosnox on October 13, 2009, 08:25:44 PM
Try again and do some research before making claims. Power consumption depends on size (many people have a 40"+ tv now, which will draw more power then your old 27" CRT), type (Plasma, which is not in wide use, tends to be less energy efficent then LCD) and other factors.
Here is a quick article on the subject just in case you decide you want to actually educate yourself.
http://www.economicallysound.com/tvs_as_energy_hogs.html
The bottom line is according to your article is a CRT uses 3.4 watts per screen inch and Plasma uses 9.4 watts per screen inch. The LCD is about equal to a CRT.
I'm having lunch today with some former co-workers in a previous life. I just noticed one of them has this business now:
http://www.naturalevolution.com/main.htm
Electronics recycling. Between Yale & Sheridan on 13th St.
Quote from: Hoss on October 14, 2009, 09:58:30 AM
Back in the late eighties after I graduated HS and got my first apartment, I had some friends from Spartan that liked to 'party' a little much.
One night we tried to deep six an old TV in the Marina Apartment Lake.
Needless to say, those tubes are quite buoyant.
That is, until one of us (yours truly) waded out with an aluminum baseball bat and 'relieved the buoyancy'.
I went to Spartan in the late 80's and had some friends from Spartan that lived at the Marina. One of them drove his girlfriends car into the lake on the south east side of the complex the winter of 88/89.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 14, 2009, 10:05:56 AM
I'm having lunch today with some former co-workers in a previous life. I just noticed one of them has this business now:
http://www.naturalevolution.com/main.htm
Electronics recycling. Between Yale & Sheridan on 13th St.
I highly recommend them. They get my stuff.
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 14, 2009, 10:07:31 AM
I went to Spartan in the late 80's and had some friends from Spartan that lived at the Marina. One of them drove his girlfriends car into the lake on the south east side of the complex the winter of 88/89.
He wasn't trying to sink a TV set was he?
Quote from: Conan71 on October 14, 2009, 10:11:58 AM
He wasn't trying to sink a TV set was he?
No, he was from Kuwait, and had never driven in the snow. Went around a corner too fast and went nose first into the lake. Then he refused pay for the damaged fence and her car because it wasn't his fault.
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 14, 2009, 10:07:31 AM
I went to Spartan in the late 80's and had some friends from Spartan that lived at the Marina. One of them drove his girlfriends car into the lake on the south east side of the complex the winter of 88/89.
Then it's likely I either knew of you or had met you through several people that I knew went there. Didn't go there personally, but one of my best friends (now passed on) went there and I met a TON of people from there through him. The one I knew the most didn't live at the Marina, but lived across the street at Pelican's Wharf.
To think that most of them now work on jetliners might be the reason I don't travel by air a lot.
;D
Quote from: Conan71 on October 14, 2009, 10:11:58 AM
He wasn't trying to sink a TV set was he?
At the time, I would have been glad to drop my ride in the drink... :o
I try to be environmentally friendly. I have recycling bins at my house for newspaper, #1 and #2 plastic, glass (sorted), aluminum, as well as plastic sacs and magazines (taking up a considerable amount of garage space!). I used to have bins for #5 plastic and steel . . . but I couldn't find anyone to take the #5 and had to drive to Owasso to donate my steel (which was probably counter productive). So they now get thrown away (though I do reuse a lot of QT cups).
For batteries, I try to remember to do something with them. I generally save them in my garage for the turn-in days . . . then forget and find them during spring cleaning and just throw them away. Larger batteries (12v) I do save and make sure to turn in. But admit to being awful with smaller batteries.
And in the greater scheme of things, I'm a fantastic Tulsan. The vast majority of Tulsans don't recycle anything at all. Cans, bottles, batteries, plastic - all right in our bottomless twice a week trash. And it would all go to be burned (interestingly, the steel recycling rate would go up as it is a ferrous metal. It might actually help with batteries too).
RM, do you have a feel for what Tulsa's "recycling rate" is?
Quote from: sauerkraut on October 14, 2009, 09:59:29 AM
The bottom line is according to your article is a CRT uses 3.4 watts per screen inch and Plasma uses 9.4 watts per screen inch. The LCD is about equal to a CRT.
So, lemme guess, instead of listening to your music on an iPod or CD player, you still listen to your old Victrola, right?
::)
Quote from: sauerkraut on October 14, 2009, 09:59:29 AM
The bottom line is according to your article is a CRT uses 3.4 watts per screen inch and Plasma uses 9.4 watts per screen inch. The LCD is about equal to a CRT.
That is one thing from the article. However, it does not give numbers for LED or the newer laser tv's. Also, I cannot attest to the accuracy of this article, I just found the first decent one on search and went with it. The point is you made an assinine comment and didn't even bother doing any research to as to the accruacy of it.
Quote from: custosnox on October 14, 2009, 01:51:41 PM
That is one thing from the article. However, it does not give numbers for LED or the newer laser tv's. Also, I cannot attest to the accuracy of this article, I just found the first decent one on search and went with it. The point is you made an assinine comment and didn't even bother doing any research to as to the accruacy of it.
I just bought one of these Samsung 23" LED HDTV/Monitors
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/office/monitors/premium/LS23CFUKFV/ZA/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=spec (http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/office/monitors/premium/LS23CFUKFV/ZA/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=spec)
The spec notes it uses 53W at work and <2W at standby.
That's 2.3W per diagonal inch. (That's more than 30% less than your 3.4W CRT)
Back on topic, there's no good reason to burn trash, especially at our that incinerator.
But, it's good proof positive once again that given a $200 million asset, almost anyone can produce a profit, even at low rates.
BTW, can someone tell me how the same company who bankrupted their operation is allowed to own and operate the same plant within months of default?
This entire deal stinks, along with the air around here shortly.
I haven't had to repaint my car once while it was closed either.
Let's be sure and capture a snapshot of air quality and asthma statistics while it was closed.
This site at Consumer Reports:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/home-garden/resource-center/energy-star-has-lost-some-luster/watts-on-tv/energy-star-watts-on-tv.htm (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/home-garden/resource-center/energy-star-has-lost-some-luster/watts-on-tv/energy-star-watts-on-tv.htm)
states a 50" PLASMA uses about 250W, or 5W per diagonal inch.
btw, the DuMont was an 8" x 10" B&W display using 250w. Diagonally, that's 12.8" and over 19.5W per inch.
At that rate, a 50" would use 976W, or about 1KW-Hour per hour of use.
At $0.8/KWH, a 12-hour viewing day would cost $0.96 in current rates.
The 50" plasma would cost about $0.25 for the 12-hours, and my 23" Samsung, at 53W, would cost just over a nickel.
You see, politicians think that's just too cheap.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 14, 2009, 11:44:24 AM
I try to be environmentally friendly. I have recycling bins at my house for newspaper, #1 and #2 plastic, glass (sorted), aluminum, as well as plastic sacs and magazines (taking up a considerable amount of garage space!). I used to have bins for #5 plastic and steel . . . but I couldn't find anyone to take the #5 and had to drive to Owasso to donate my steel (which was probably counter productive). So they now get thrown away (though I do reuse a lot of QT cups).
For batteries, I try to remember to do something with them. I generally save them in my garage for the turn-in days . . . then forget and find them during spring cleaning and just throw them away. Larger batteries (12v) I do save and make sure to turn in. But admit to being awful with smaller batteries.
And in the greater scheme of things, I'm a fantastic Tulsan. The vast majority of Tulsans don't recycle anything at all. Cans, bottles, batteries, plastic - all right in our bottomless twice a week trash. And it would all go to be burned (interestingly, the steel recycling rate would go up as it is a ferrous metal. It might actually help with batteries too).
RM, do you have a feel for what Tulsa's "recycling rate" is?
And my used 22 oz. Marshall's bottles get put to VERY good use in your garage. ;)
Quote from: RecycleMichael on October 10, 2009, 05:38:45 PM
There are a few issues, but Tulsa was on the dirty air list before this plant was built and got off the list a few years after it opened. The steam they sell to Sunoco has to be generated somehow and the WTE operation means there are fewer natural gas fired units boiling water.
It is pretty regulated and has to meet very stringent continual testing. One thing I like about it is that it is so regulated. We have no idea what is buried each day at a landfill.
It also doesn't really cause pollution...we do. When we throw away things that don't burn well (like batteries and plastics), there are some emissions. This plant has installed excellent control measures, but there are still traces.
I really follow this plant. I know all the management people and all the regulators. The reports are public record and I make a point to research them.
This is the posting to which I was refering in the other thread on the politics board. Could you please post links to these reports.
Quote from: Hoss on October 14, 2009, 01:09:24 PM
So, lemme guess, instead of listening to your music on an iPod or CD player, you still listen to your old Victrola, right?
::)
No, he's moved up. He has an 8 Track from Radio Shack now.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 14, 2009, 11:44:24 AM
RM, do you have a feel for what Tulsa's "recycling rate" is?
It depends what you count and how you measure. Some states count scrap metal from salvaged cars and wood chips. Some do not.
In terms of participation...just over 11% of the single family residences have signed up and are charged extra for curbside collection of recyclables and the M.e.t. centers receive an almost equal tonnage amount of recyclables. That means about 12,000 homes subscribe to curbside and another 12,000 use the five M.e.t. locations in Tulsa.
Add to that some Tulsans only recycle paper at their kid's school or their church, others sell their cans to private dealers, some Tulsans drive to Broken Arrow because it accepts more materials, and some apartments have now started recycling and I would safely say that about 25% of Tulsans recycle (compared to the national average of 50%).
If you just count paper and containers, only about 3% of Tulsa's trash is recycled. If you count wood chips, it becomes 25% and if you count salvaged cars, it jumps up to 50%.
Quote from: Wrinkle on October 14, 2009, 04:31:04 PM
This is the posting to which I was refering in the other thread on the politics board. Could you please post links to these reports.
I don't have electronic copies of everything. I actually go the the meetings and get handouts and keep a file on each disposal facility within 50 miles of Tulsa. I also have interns go to OKC each summer and pay to make copies of permits and notice of violations.
Here is the DEQ site for air quality...
http://www.deq.state.ok.us/AQDnew/AQIndex/Tulsa/tulaqi.htm
Quote from: dbacks fan on October 14, 2009, 04:31:35 PM
No, he's moved up. He has an 8 Track from Radio Shack now.
I think I had one like that. Thieves damaged both my car doors ($150+) to steal the player and a rusty pocket knife. They must not have liked my choice of music as they left all the tapes.
Quote from: Conan71 on October 12, 2009, 04:29:59 PM
We've got 2x a month curb-side in my 'hood. I assumed that was available city-wide, is it not?
C, I have a question for you, or anyone else for that matter with this service.
I'm trying to decide if I need more than one bin. I know I'll be getting a lid and wheel kit, but just how big are these bins? I live with and help take care of my mother, so it's just the two of us, but she does take the daily newspaper and gets a LOT of catalogs/flyers/junk mail. Would one suffice, you think, or might two work?
Thanks.
Quote from: Hoss on October 14, 2009, 11:44:08 PM
C, I have a question for you, or anyone else for that matter with this service.
I'm trying to decide if I need more than one bin. I know I'll be getting a lid and wheel kit, but just how big are these bins? I live with and help take care of my mother, so it's just the two of us, but she does take the daily newspaper and gets a LOT of catalogs/flyers/junk mail. Would one suffice, you think, or might two work?
Thanks.
I have two smaller bins. I usually fill up one per 2-week cycle (I don't make much waste to begin with, and I'm the only one at my residence). The second one for high volume months (holiday season or when I have guests).
The bins are 18 gallon size. We have lots of recyclables so we have more than one bin. We have parties when we fill up three bins.
You also can out recyclables in other containers. We usually put our glass bottles and jars in a five gallon bucket and just set it out next to the bin.
I really generate very little waste these days. It's just me, my dog (and if you've seen my dog, you'd know he's not a big waste generator either) and the occasional visitor. I probably only spend about two waking hours a day at my house. I re-use bottled water bottles until they are skanky or get a hole in them, don't take the paper, no magazines anymore, Cannon_Fodder gets all my 22 oz Marshall's bottles.etc. I have two bins but I find I'm only even 1/2 filling one bin a month. Cutting beer intake for rowing and bike training hasn't hurt either ;)
I do keep a spare bin in case I have a party or wind up finally sorting through old boxes of stuff and figure out I don't need 150 copies of 10+ year old Car & Driver, Plane & Pilot, Sail, or whatever.
Question for Recyclemichael: One of my neighbors told me Hoover Elementary takes recyclables, especially magazines and newsprint? Is that right? Just want to know in case I ever do have the need to take a box of old magazines or junk mail up there.
Yes. Many schools and area churches have bins that take back paper. There is a company that collects only paper and then gives the school a small check.
Here is their list of locations.
http://papermq.contentactive.com/mapquest/advantage.asp?transaction=search&country=us&template=paper_retriever&pageresults=10&maxsearchresults=25&units=&radius=5&code=1132&proxIconId=501&radius=5&address=&city=Tulsa&stateProvince=OK&county=Tulsa+County&postalCode=&x=60&y=13