The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=alHxUmFKCLC8

Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. House of Representatives voted today to cut off all federal funding for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now after reports that some of the group's employees gave tax and housing advice to people who said they ran a prostitution business.

The motion passed 345-75 during debate on legislation to end federally subsidized private student loans. The bill now goes to the Senate.

"Acorn's abuse of the public trust and disregard for the responsibilities that come with receiving taxpayer funding are disturbing," said Representative Roy Blunt, a Missouri Republican.

Acorn, a nonprofit organization that provides housing and other assistance for low- and moderate-income families, has received more than $53 million in federal funds since 1994, according to a report by House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Republicans.

Earlier today, Acorn announced that it would examine its operations and policies. In a memo to supporters, Acorn Chief Executive Officer Bertha Lewis and Executive Director Steven Kest said the group had suspended all interviews of people seeking assistance, and its advisory board would begin an independent review of its programs.

The Tulsa World has a good take on this...........................

http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=63&articleid=20090917_63_A14_tworld536120

ACORN screwed up in two ways: 

1) Their internal management, training, and/or employment controls were obviously piss-poor.  Some of what was caught on camera can be chalked up to dodgy gotcha-style journalism; the worst of it can't.  The 12 year old sex slave stuff is particularly awful.  There's no real way around it. 

2)  ACORN's been a prime target of right wing activists for over a year now; that they're not minding their p's and q's when they know they're under continuing scrutiny just reinforces the idea that whoever's at the helm has a fundamentally flawed idea of how to run a national outfit.  There's been plenty of warning.  No good reason for them NOT to have cleaned up their act at this point.

This will be a good opportunity for a top to bottom reorg and hopefully a roundabout path back to federal funding.  Because honestly, ACORN's goals are laudable, and worth federal support.  Just not without reform.

So, the Feds have funded ACORN to the tune of $53mm since 1994, that's what, $3.5mm a year?  How do they manage to provide substantive help to the people who need it at that rate?  I'm guessing at least 40 to 50% being eaten up in administrative, lobbying, and overhead costs, if not more.  What are ACORN's other sources of funding?  Might be time to pay attention to more of these non-profit, government-assisted organizations. 

Kind of an eye-opener.

Quote from: Conan71 on September 17, 2009, 11:50:40 PM
So, the Feds have funded ACORN to the tune of $53mm since 1994, that's what, $3.5mm a year?  How do they manage to provide substantive help to the people who need it at that rate?  I'm guessing at least 40 to 50% being eaten up in administrative, lobbying, and overhead costs, if not more.  What are ACORN's other sources of funding?  Might be time to pay attention to more of these non-profit, government-assisted organizations. 

Kind of an eye-opener.

Yes. You need eye opening. The reactionaries are using this to divert attention from the health care debate and  as a way to say enough of this funding for the administrators assisting the under class.

IT'S ABOUT ACORN ALRIGHT! MORE IMPORTANTLY IT'S ABOUT GIVING A HAND UP NOT A HAND OUT. But because you hate what your government does to help the sick, the poor, and the uneducated you insist on saying this money, every dime, is abused.

And get it in perspective. $53 million a week in Iraq for 8 years....duh. Never heard you b it ch bout dat.

Dolt

Quote from: Conan71 on September 17, 2009, 11:50:40 PM
So, the Feds have funded ACORN to the tune of $53mm since 1994, that's what, $3.5mm a year?  How do they manage to provide substantive help to the people who need it at that rate?  I'm guessing at least 40 to 50% being eaten up in administrative, lobbying, and overhead costs, if not more.  What are ACORN's other sources of funding?  Might be time to pay attention to more of these non-profit, government-assisted organizations. 

Kind of an eye-opener.

Well, you know . . . they're a nonprofit.  So they probably get funding the way any nonprofit does: corporate donations, public and private fundraising, and gov matching funds (state, local, federal). 

I might be more rah-rah for an audit of all the federally supported charities out there if 1) the sums weren't so piddly (I mean $3,5 mm a YEAR?  What a bank breaker) and if we didn't have so many other freakin' balls in the air, all of which worth hundreds of billions of dollars. 

Also, while what was uncovered at ACORN was legitimately awful, it was still conservative activists who did it, and using methods that were . . . well, not so savory.  Point being that, if you want to get into a nickel and dime pissing match over whose pet nonprofits are more corruptly run, then we'll nothing but partisan gridlock for years to come. 

Quote from: we vs us on September 18, 2009, 05:45:00 AM

Also, while what was uncovered at ACORN was legitimately awful, it was still conservative activists who did it, and using methods that were . . . well, not so savory. 

Is what you are saying it that it would have been OK for the mainstream media to uncover it using unsavory methods?  I have seen spots on mainstream TV that used undercover cameras and asked questions that were similar to the proverbial "have you stopped beating your wife?".  I have watched enough 60 Minutes shows to know why they frequently do not get an interview with a person of interest.

Quote from: Red Arrow on September 18, 2009, 07:54:56 AM
Is what you are saying it that it would have been OK for the mainstream media to uncover it using unsavory methods?

What would have been OK were people who weren't bald faced liars spewing forth this noise. I'd be interested to see all the raw footage so we can see what else they're covering up.

It's not OK to go on national TV and say that "none of the facilities kicked us out," when that is demonstrably false. It makes me think you're an attention whore rather than someone interested in exposing the truth.

Some info on ACORNS funding from the election time frame:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/secretmoney/2008/10/acorns_money_tree_has_many_bra.html

It's true that much of their money is Federal (not just appropriates but grants from HUD, the EPA, etc.), but they also get funding from tons of other sources.  That includes classic liberal funds (unions, George Soros) but also mainstream or even conservative sources (including investment banks).  They also have some 527s to do their own fund raising.

On the whole, the group probably did more harm than good.  But they DID do harm.  Some of that harm was political in nature (voter fraud in favor of Democrats) and put a target on their back.  They then failed to reign in their issues and were further exposed.  Fairly simple.

But don't fret FOTD.  ACORN is done for but that doesn't mean the funding for the work they did will dry up.  And being critical of a group also doesn't equate to hating poor people or charity.  Try to stay a bit rational.

I see at least two things going on here which I take as nothing more than trying to excuse the bad behavior of an agency which is intertwined with liberals and other liberal interests for the sake of protecting the fold.  It all boils down to partisans trying to excuse the inexcusable.

I don't see how $53mm a week or month or whatever in Iraq justifies funnelling money to a "non-profit" special interest group.  How do you justify idiotic spending with more idiotic spending?  Do you do that in your personal life?  I bet not.  Who's the dolt here, FOTD? 

I also don't agree with the "It's only $3.5mm" mentality. 

How many other "only $3.5mm" sink-holes are there in the national budget?  Thousands upon thousands.  This mentality is incredibly narrow-minded.  Washington insiders have lost total touch with fiscal reality.  "It's only a billion dollars".  It adds up. 

If this had been one of GWB's faith-based organizations, you libs would be screaming for them to be shut down.

Sorry guys, fiscal responsibility needs to be a lot less partisan.  If ACORN were closely affilliated with the GOP, I'd be saying the exact same thing.  If there are some GOP-related special interest groups which wind up in the same trouble, you sure as heck won't hear a bunch of apologetic clap-trap from me to try and justify it.

There's a 5% drop in Oklahoma school budgets just announced, how many other states are losing school funds due to lower reciepts this year?  How many other creepy special interests are sucking up federal funds which could be put to better use through educational funding?  I say flush them out and get them off the tit.  I hope ACORN is just the tip of the iceberg.

Quote from: we vs us on September 18, 2009, 05:45:00 AM
Well, you know . . . they're a nonprofit.  So they probably get funding the way any nonprofit does: corporate donations, public and private fundraising, and gov matching funds (state, local, federal). 

I might be more rah-rah for an audit of all the federally supported charities out there if 1) the sums weren't so piddly (I mean $3,5 mm a YEAR?  What a bank breaker) and if we didn't have so many other freakin' balls in the air, all of which worth hundreds of billions of dollars. 

Also, while what was uncovered at ACORN was legitimately awful, it was still conservative activists who did it, and using methods that were . . . well, not so savory.  Point being that, if you want to get into a nickel and dime pissing match over whose pet nonprofits are more corruptly run, then we'll nothing but partisan gridlock for years to come. 

Corruptly run?  They just answered the question!  And to top it of they (in theory) helped the US Government get more tax money.  They are patriots!  And cannon fodder, they it wasn't voter fraud.  It was voter registration fraud.  It is a bit different.  Registering Mickey Mouse for the vote so you can get your 50 cents or $1 a voter registered is a bit different than going down as Mickey Mouse and voting for somebody.  This organization is a good example of a non profit hiring trashy people to work for them.  They need to purge the horrible employees and try to rebuild with college interns, etc.

Quote from: Trogdor on September 18, 2009, 10:28:40 AM
This organization is a good example of a non profit hiring trashy people to work for them.  They need to purge the horrible employees and try to rebuild with college interns, etc.

And probably a good indicator that all the cream is being sucked off the top for a select few, otherwise one would think they could hire a better quality worker.

However, Acorn was was eligible for a wider set of funding in pending legislation, which funds housing and transportation programs.

That $53 million they have received was just a drop in the bucket to what they were lining themselves up for. 

Quote from: unreliablesource on September 18, 2009, 10:49:05 AM
However, Acorn was was eligible for a wider set of funding in pending legislation, which funds housing and transportation programs.

That $53 million they have received was just a drop in the bucket to what they were lining themselves up for. 

Good thing we found out now, then.

Control that dialog. This is the real issue. Interesting how the House and Senate are deliberative bodies, except when the GOP screams their head off. Then they rush to judgment with Glenn Beck acting as director...

Please define "creepy special interests" CoCo.

Specifically Crusher, how did they do more harm than good. Is that your best guess?

If we decided to audit the effectiveness of every nonprofit grant we make it right now -- regardless of size -- based on the some screwed up ACORN reps in field offices around the country, we're in for a hep of trouble.  The manner in which this was pursued was pretty shady, and undoubtedly partisan.  Regardless of whether ACORN objectively needs to be cut off or not (and I think it probably does) this is inseparable from the partisanship with which it was pursued.  It doesn't matter if moderate GOPers think it wasn't partisan; it's perceived by enough Dems to be that it would start a flat out war. 

My point isn't that it should be ignored because it's a lib cause; my point is that it just doesn't merit being top of the pile right now, especially because regardless of the savings we might find, we'd stand to lose much more in national morale.

Red Arrow:  I find their methods distasteful.  Just like I find a lot of Michael Moore's gotcha stuff to be distasteful.  Hell, just like I find "To Catch a Child Predator" distasteful.  It's too close to entrapment for me.

I believe ACORN is necessary because Pimpin aint easy.

Quote from: Gaspar on September 21, 2009, 01:40:08 PM
I believe ACORN is necessary because Pimpin aint easy.

That's why Pimps need Acorn.

Hmmm, low friends in high places:

Conyers started an investigation then abruptly dropped it.  Maybe POTUS Obama will have better luck

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aZ8U4iOoY83w

"Last March, Democratic Representative John Conyers, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, initiated a probe into Acorn's activities, only to back off. In May, he issued a statement saying, "Based on my review of the information regarding the complaints against Acorn, I have concluded that a hearing on this matter appears unwarranted at this time." In June, he explained, "The powers that be decided against it."

Although Conyers refrained from revealing which powers he had yielded to, John Fund reported in a recent Wall Street Journal column that a Republican representative's six attempts to call a House vote to restrict Acorn's federal funding were stopped by Speaker "Nancy Pelosi's hand-picked Rules Committee members."

Inquiry Stopped

The stonewalling of Conyers wasn't the first time that "the powers that be" called off investigations of Acorn.

In 2008, Acorn's national board assigned two members, Karen Inman and Marcel Reid, to conduct an internal investigation of allegations that the brother of an Acorn founder had embezzled almost $1 million. As part of the inquiry, Inman and Reid sought access to the group's books. They were then dismissed from the board and stripped of their membership, shutting down the internal inquiry, according to a CNN report."



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5I6tDiLF17oQUvXCSsqWXxeLNoAD9ARFH9O0

"California Republican Rep. Darrell Issa, a member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, pressed Lewis to reveal more about the group's operations.

"The bottom line is, there's no transparency in ACORN," said Issa, who also was on Fox.

"Here we have literally hundreds of organizations tied under the ACORN umbrella, and you can't even find out what their incorporation is, whether they pay taxes, who makes what," Issa said.

Lewis said she has made sure, since becoming chief executive last year, that affiliates have "firewalls" between them. "I've completely overhauled all of our finances, all of our controls," she said.

She also said founder Wade Rathke was fired immediately after it was discovered his brother, Dale, stole nearly $1 million from the organization nine years ago. In fact, Wade Rathke learned of the embezzlement in 2000, told only a few people but failed to report the embezzlement to law enforcement. An anonymous donor compensated the group for the missing money."


Let's hear some more apologies and justification from the left on this.  What transgression of the GOP or it's pet groups is going to make all this little flap with ACORN okay?

Quote from: we vs us on September 18, 2009, 04:06:08 PM
Red Arrow:  I find their methods distasteful.  Just like I find a lot of Michael Moore's gotcha stuff to be distasteful.  Hell, just like I find "To Catch a Child Predator" distasteful.  It's too close to entrapment for me.

I find methods bordering on entrapment distasteful no matter who uses them.

Again, I am all for people paying their taxes on all their income.  Even if it is illegal.

Co Co, try this on...

BREAKING: Media Matters uncovers deep RedState.org/ACORN connections

"Today Media Matters for America officially confirms the breaking, bombshell, news that the conservative blog RedState.org has deep, shadowy connections with ACORN, the organizing group for low- and moderate-income communities.

How absolutely scandalous. This, I fear, is only the beginning. Just look at all of the authors now unmistakably tied to ACORN... prominent conservative like Haley Barbour, Michael Barone, William J. Bennett, Tony Blankley, Pat Buchanan, Jerome Corsi, Ann Coulter, Dinesh D'Souza, Steve Forbes, Newt Gingrich, Bernard Goldberg, Denny Hastert, Hugh Hewitt, David Horowitz, Laura Ingraham, Wayne LaPierre, G. Gordon Liddy, Rich Lowry, Michelle Malkin, Oliver North, Ted Nugent, Mitt Romney, Bill Sammon, Mark Steyn and R. Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. among many, many others including numerous conservative Senators and Members of Congress and the likes of Gary Bauer, L. Brent Bozell III, Larry Elder, Terry Jeffrey, Charles Krauthammer, Larry Kudlow, Bill O'Reilly, Tony Perkins, Michael Reagan, Rick Scott and John Stossel. "

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909230030

ACORN is all about diversionary politics.

Rachel Maddow deserves a journalism prize for this reporting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x377131


The GOP is a bunch of paranoid punks....and the Dims are a bunch of idiots for following their lead.

Oh the irony....




US Chamber Shuts off TheYesMen.org and Websites of Hundreds of Other Activist Groups

Free Speech, Free Commerce Threatened by "Free Trade" Champion


WASHINGTON - October 23 - Hundreds of activist organizations had their internet service turned off last night after the US Chamber of Commerce strong-armed an upstream provider, Hurricane Electric, to pull the plug on The Yes Men and May First / People Link, a 400-member-strong organization with a strong commitment to protecting free speech.

"This is a blow against free speech, and it demostrates in gory detail the full hypocrisy of the Chamber," said Andy Bichlbaum of The Yes Men. "The only freedom they care about is the economic freedom of large corporations to operate free of the hassles of science, reality, and democracy."

After suffering embarrassment at the hands of the Yes Men on Monday, the Chamber immediately threatened legal action, then followed through Thursday by sending a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) notice to Hurricane Electric Internet Services. In the DMCA notice, the Chamber claimed that the parody Chamber website operated by The Yes Men constituted copyright infringement, and demanded that the site be shut down immediately and that the creator's service be canceled.

But the Yes Men are not served directly by Hurricane Electric, but by May First / People Link. And when Hurricane Electric shut down the fake Chamber of Commerce site (now relocated), they also took down the websites of 400 other organizations.

May First / People Link fought back. They immediately "mirrored" the site, and then quickly negotiated with Hurricane Electric to restore service to their other members.

"The DMCA attacks the critically important right we have to effectively comment and criticize institutions and companies," said May First/People Link Co-Director Alfredo Lopez. "It's an undemocratic, backwards law, a perfect example of how the government shouldn't intrude on our lives. But the Chamber was perfectly happy to use it to stomp on the Yes Men's rights to free spech, and the rights of hundreds of other organizations to operate on the web."

The 400 May First / People Link members weren't the only victims of the Chamber's action on Thursday. Today is the start of the national release of the Yes Men's new film, The Yes Men Fix the World. The film is being released in a number of independent theaters - who, not being part of a chain, are heavily dependent on the Yes Men website for selling tickets to the film. The Chamber's actions thus impinge on the ability of these small businesses to turn a profit.

"The Chamber claims to represent 3 million businesses of every size, yet their actions undermined a fair number of small businesses," said Mike Bonanno of the Yes Men. "The Chamber is clearly much less interested in actual freedom, economic or otherwise, than in the license of their largest members to operate free from the scientific consensus." (The Chamber has opposed or refused to endorse a climate bill, the absurdity of which the Yes Men's Monday action was designed to highlight.)

This isn't the first time a Yes Men site has found itself targeted by a DMCA complaint brought by a large corporation. The Yes Men have in the past received DMCA notices from Exxon, Dow Chemical, DeBeers, and the New York Times. In each case, the the Yes Men (represented by the Electronic Frontier Foundation) refused to comply, and prevailed. Even the George W. Bush campaign sent a complaint to try to interrupt service to GWBush.com, in 2000, resulting in extensive ridicule that culminated in Bush's mind-boggling gaffe that "There ought to be limits to freedom."

http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2009/10/23-5

Well, back to the topic, apparently the videographers were in fact lying.

Not only did the investigation clear ACORN of any wrongdoing aside from being unprofessional in even responding to Giles and O'Keefe, but they found that the audio portion of the video had been dubbed over in several places, so we don't even know what Giles and O'Keefe said to the ACORN workers to prompt their responses.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/07/AR2009120703985.html

Quote
"We did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff involved; in fact, no action, illegal or otherwise, was ever taken by any ACORN employee on behalf of the videographers," Harshbarger said in a statement.

Shocking that some Young Republicans would follow the Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity/O'Reilly model so closely and just make smile up.

Edited to add: And for your perusal, a link to the full report: http://www.proskauer.com/files/uploads/report2.pdf

Quote from: nathanm on December 08, 2009, 05:41:52 PM
Well, back to the topic, apparently the videographers were in fact lying.

Not only did the investigation clear ACORN of any wrongdoing aside from being unprofessional in even responding to Giles and O'Keefe, but they found that the audio portion of the video had been dubbed over in several places, so we don't even know what Giles and O'Keefe said to the ACORN workers to prompt their responses.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/07/AR2009120703985.html

Shocking that some Young Republicans would follow the Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity/O'Reilly model so closely and just make smile up.

Edited to add: And for your perusal, a link to the full report: http://www.proskauer.com/files/uploads/report2.pdf

That was an INTERNAL investigation that ACORN commissioned. ACORN cleared ACORN, what a surprise. Still, if Giles and O'Keefe lied, why did ACORN fire several of its employees?

Quote from: guido911 on December 08, 2009, 07:30:55 PM
That was an INTERNAL investigation that ACORN commissioned. ACORN cleared ACORN, what a surprise. Still, if Giles and O'Keefe lied, why did ACORN fire several of its employees?

Because they were obviously idiots for even responding to the Young Republicans.

Note that the report did point out several issues with training and other HR functions.

If Giles and O'Keefe's video was accurate, why did they feel the need to fake their questions to the employees? And if ACORN was as bad as you seem to think it is, why did the employees not take any action on their requests and why did many offices call the police on them?

Quote from: nathanm on December 08, 2009, 08:59:07 PM
Because they were obviously idiots for even responding to the Young Republicans.

Note that the report did point out several issues with training and other HR functions.

If Giles and O'Keefe's video was accurate, why did they feel the need to fake their questions to the employees? And if ACORN was as bad as you seem to think it is, why did the employees not take any action on their requests and why did many offices call the police on them?

Care to source any of those assertions?  Nevermind. ACORN good, Giles/O'Keefe bad.

Quote from: guido911 on December 09, 2009, 10:03:18 AM
Care to source any of those assertions?  Nevermind. ACORN good, Giles/O'Keefe bad.

Read the report.

I can only assume you are referring to the 47 page report, specifically pages 11-14 (or thereabouts) when the author discusses the edits to the videos. I did not see the word "lying" (in any connection much less towards Giles and O'Keefe) or that these two were "mak[ing] smile up" anywhere in those pages as you stated--unless you are referring to their  story that they were a pimp and prostitute looking for help which of course would be ridiculous. Since you most assuredly read the entire report before you posted (as opposed to just reading a news article that discussed the report or read something on a lefty website), could you direct me to where specifically in the report the author says they in fact were lying or that otherwise supports your suggestion that they were making smile up?

Quote from: guido911 on December 09, 2009, 04:35:15 PM
I can only assume you are referring to the 47 page report, specifically pages 11-14 (or thereabouts) when the author discusses the edits to the videos. I did not see the word "lying" (in any connection much less towards Giles and O'Keefe) or that these two were "mak[ing] smile up" anywhere in those pages as you stated--unless you are referring to their  story that they were a pimp and prostitute looking for help which of course would be ridiculous. Since you most assuredly read the entire report before you posted (as opposed to just reading a news article that discussed the report or read something on a lefty website), could you direct me to where specifically in the report the author says they in fact were lying or that otherwise supports your suggestion that they were making smile up?

My contention is that editing the video without disclosure is lying. Just like the Reuters photographer who doctored his photograph to make the war in Lebanon look more "interesting."

Earlier in the thread when this story first broke, I provided support for my contention that they were not being truthful about their actions in interviews after they released the video.

Quote from: nathanm on December 09, 2009, 09:07:16 PM
My contention is that editing the video without disclosure is lying. Just like the Reuters photographer who doctored his photograph to make the war in Lebanon look more "interesting."

Earlier in the thread when this story first broke, I provided support for my contention that they were not being truthful about their actions in interviews after they released the video.

(http://diannej.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/backpedaling34.jpg)

Quote from: guido911 on December 10, 2009, 09:53:15 AM
(http://diannej.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/backpedaling34.jpg)

I wish I were that talented.

That's Guido in the right part of the picture. He doesn't backtrack. He disappears instead.

This devil does not recall Guido objecting to the investigator before the report was released...

Oh no!  Federal Court rules suspension of Acorn funds is unconstitutional?  The Fox News Talking Heads will likely look much like Scanners before too long!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/12/us/politics/12acorn.html?_r=1

Hate to keep bumping, but now it's getting funny...

ACORN gotcha man among four arrested for attempting to tamper with Mary Landrieu's office phones (http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/01/acorn_gotcha_man_arrested_for.html)

So now will all of those wingnuts who were calling the ACORN scandal illegal call this illegal as well?  It also includes an arrest of a sitting District Judge's son!

Quote from: Hoss on January 26, 2010, 03:58:50 PM
Hate to keep bumping, but now it's getting funny...

ACORN gotcha man among four arrested for attempting to tamper with Mary Landrieu's office phones (http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/01/acorn_gotcha_man_arrested_for.html)

So now will all of those wingnuts who were calling the ACORN scandal illegal call this illegal as well?  It also includes an arrest of a sitting District Judge's son!

Nah, that's only illegal when Democrats do it.  8)

Coco, nice smiley face. more like a smirk.

Hoss, stay on them....sniff sniff.

Oddly enough, Michelle Malkin wrote this:

"This is neither a time to joke nor a time to recklessly accuse Democrats/liberals of setting this up — nor a time to whine about media coverage double standards."

Anyone wanna bet she'll blame unnamed 'Democrats/liberals' for this by tomorrow afternoon?

Quote from: Ed W on January 26, 2010, 07:37:55 PM
Oddly enough, Michelle Malkin wrote this:

"This is neither a time to joke nor a time to recklessly accuse Democrats/liberals of setting this up — nor a time to whine about media coverage double standards."

Anyone wanna bet she'll blame unnamed 'Democrats/liberals' for this by tomorrow afternoon?

It's funny Ed, I probably hear more quotes by consrvative pundits from my Democrat friends. Other than having to suffer through Hannity to get accurate traffic on the way home I pay little attention to them these days.

Quote from: Conan71 on January 26, 2010, 09:38:32 PM
It's funny Ed, I probably hear more quotes by consrvative pundits from my Democrat friends. Other than having to suffer through Hannity to get accurate traffic on the way home I pay little attention to them these days.

I think, Coco, it's because some of the quotes are so outlandish (especially from Beck) that you actually have to find a YouTube of it somewhere to verify its authenticity.

Fox has Beck brainwashed.  He was actually watchable in his days on CNN/HLN; but I'm not sure if these guys go through re-programming (AKA the Edict as thrown down by Roger Ailes) when they get to FNC or what.

Quote from: Conan71 on January 26, 2010, 09:38:32 PM
It's funny Ed, I probably hear more quotes by consrvative pundits from my Democrat friends. Other than having to suffer through Hannity to get accurate traffic on the way home I pay little attention to them these days.

Get serious Sirius CoCo....that's a lame excuse for where you get your talking points.

I think it's best to remember that the right-wing talk radio crowd has one imperative above all others - selling advertising time.  The outrageous, unfounded accusations draw the listeners and build the numbers for those advertisers.  That's why Faux News tried to say that Rush, Hannity, Beck, et al, are NOT doing news shows - though as Jon Stewart pointed out - their shows are indistinguishable from the rest of Faux.

Stewart and Colbert could arguably be the only success stories for 'liberal' news, mainly because they treat it as satire and revel in pointing out hypocrisy - from either end of the political spectrum.

The Faux model didn't work for Air America, though.  Maybe left-wing listeners are more likely to be turned off by hyperbole and vitriol.  Maybe they have other things to do rather than listen to radio.  It'll be interesting to read the post-mortem.   

Quote from: Ed W on January 27, 2010, 04:29:06 PM
I think it's best to remember that the right-wing talk radio crowd has one imperative above all others - selling advertising time.  The outrageous, unfounded accusations draw the listeners and build the numbers for those advertisers.  That's why Faux News tried to say that Rush, Hannity, Beck, et al, are NOT doing news shows - though as Jon Stewart pointed out - their shows are indistinguishable from the rest of Faux.

Stewart and Colbert could arguably be the only success stories for 'liberal' news, mainly because they treat it as satire and revel in pointing out hypocrisy - from either end of the political spectrum.

The Faux model didn't work for Air America, though.  Maybe left-wing listeners are more likely to be turned off by hyperbole and vitriol.  Maybe they have other things to do rather than listen to radio.  It'll be interesting to read the post-mortem.   

Ed,
Very well put. I enjoy your posts.  Don't usually agree with you but at least you are an excellent communicator and thoughtful in how you present your opinions. 

I opted to listen to Air America several times on XM a year or so ago, and found that I couldn't' get away with it at work.  The profanity was a problem.  F-bombs constantly.  There was also very little information presented, and an obvious underlying hatred for all things commercial and free market. 

I assume it is very difficult to sell COMMERCIALS when you present opinions that can be perceived as anti commercial.  I also assume that Snapple is not going to advertise during a Janeane Garofalo segment where she just spews anger and uses profanity.  Never really figured out what she was talking about except she did not like President Bush.

I don't know if I listened at the wrong time or if my obvious admiration of capitalism got in the way of my ability to comprehend the message, but Air America seemed to push a very socialist agenda that I don't think any advertiser would want to attach themselves too.  In fact, I don't think I ever heard an ad?

Gaspar - thanks for the kind words.  We don't have to agree, but I believe we have to treat each other with respect.  We have to present the very best arguments we can, while keeping in mind that attacking ideas is not the same as attacking the person.  I have friends and co-workers who are truly admirable people despite the fact that we have fundamental disagreements.

That said - just realize that I'm always right, unless She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed is in the room.

I've never listened to any of the satellite radio stuff.  It's just not in the budget.  But I do like getting different viewpoints, particularly foreign ones.  That once meant listening to shortwave broadcasts from Deutsche Welle, Radio Moscow, the BBC, and those wild and crazy guys from Radio Tirana, where every bad thing that happened that day was due to American imperialism and Zionist aggression.  (Yes, I'm clearly revealing that I'm both a geek and an old fart!)  Of course, this being Oklahoma, 'foreign' news comes from the New York Times, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, or that redoubt of Steel City liberalism, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette.  I loves me these internets!

Quote from: Ed W on January 27, 2010, 04:29:06 PM


The Faux model didn't work for Air America, though.  Maybe left-wing listeners are more likely to be turned off by hyperbole and vitriol.  Maybe they have other things to do rather than listen to radio.  It'll be interesting to read the post-mortem.   

Funny though, Olbermann, Matthews, and Maddow Maddog seem to have no problem with commercial appeal.  Plenty of vitriol and hyperbole available.

I personally never listened to Air Amerika, but after hearing Gaspar's account of it, no wonder it went tits up.

ACORN is cleared by prosecutors of criminal charges.

The video by the now-discredited Mr. O'Keefe was "edited to meet their agenda." So the evidence apparently was fabricated.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/03/01/2010-03-01_bklyn_acorn_cleared_over_giving_illegal_advice_on_how_to_hide_money_from_prostit.html#ixzz0gxpib9Cn

Quote from: rwarn17588 on March 01, 2010, 06:48:29 PM
ACORN is cleared by prosecutors of criminal charges.

The video by the now-discredited Mr. O'Keefe was "edited to meet their agenda." So the evidence apparently was fabricated.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/03/01/2010-03-01_bklyn_acorn_cleared_over_giving_illegal_advice_on_how_to_hide_money_from_prostit.html#ixzz0gxpib9Cn

So I assume since the evidence was "fabricated", and what we all saw and heard apparently never took place, the ACORN workers that were wrongfully fired in NY and Baltimore will be rehired. Whatever.

Quote from: guido911 on March 01, 2010, 07:34:42 PM
So I assume since the evidence was "fabricated", and what we all saw and heard apparently never took place, the ACORN workers that were wrongfully fired in NY and Baltimore will be rehired. Whatever.

That the conversations on the video took place is no evidence of any real wrongdoing.

Quote from: nathanm on March 01, 2010, 10:24:07 PM
That the conversations on the video took place is no evidence of any real wrongdoing.

I will remember that the next time there's a Republican gotcha moment which seems a little too good to be true.

Let's face it, edited footage was cobbled together of some unsavory advice which apparently was dispensed.  Where there's smoke there's fire.

Quote from: Conan71 on March 01, 2010, 10:33:29 PM
Where there's smoke there's fire.

Sometimes. Other times I just got the grill too hot before searing my steak. ;D

Quote from: Conan71 on March 01, 2010, 10:33:29 PM
Where there's smoke there's fire.

The only smoke was what O'Keefe was blowing. Events in recent weeks show that he has no credibility.

Quote from: rwarn17588 on March 02, 2010, 11:15:05 AM
The only smoke was what O'Keefe was blowing. Events in recent weeks show that he has no credibility.

Um, Hannah Giles was also in those videos. She has no credibility either? On the topic of credibility, ACORN is so darned credible that they are renaming themselves now.

Quote from: guido911 on March 02, 2010, 01:24:54 PM
Um, Hannah Giles was also in those videos. She has no credibility either? On the topic of credibility, ACORN is so darned credible that they are renaming themselves now.

I guess in your mind this is like renaming ValuJet to AirTran.

And your point about Giles is? Are you seriously trying to argue that because there were two people there one of them could not have been dishonest?

Quote from: guido911 on March 02, 2010, 01:24:54 PM
Um, Hannah Giles was also in those videos. She has no credibility either? On the topic of credibility, ACORN is so darned credible that they are renaming themselves now.

Yep, kinda like how the Republican Base are trying to rebrand themselves as the "Tea Party".

::)

Quote from: nathanm on March 02, 2010, 01:46:28 PM
I guess in your mind this is like renaming ValuJet to AirTran.

And your point about Giles is? Are you seriously trying to argue that because there were two people there one of them could not have been dishonest?

Are you seriously trying to suggest those ACORN folks in Baltimore that advised those two on the tax issues pertaining to underage sex slaves were honest?

Quote from: Red Arrow on September 21, 2009, 11:25:10 PM
I find methods bordering on entrapment distasteful no matter who uses them.

Regardless of one's ideology, there's really no way that he can take the hiugher ground on this, especially with the matter of his scam at Senator Landrieu's office.

Quote from: guido911 on March 02, 2010, 04:09:26 PM
Are you seriously trying to suggest those ACORN folks in Baltimore that advised those two on the tax issues pertaining to underage sex slaves were honest?

One person involved has been criminally charged; ACORN hasn't. It's not hard to see which one is more credible here.

Quote from: rwarn17588 on March 02, 2010, 09:21:02 PM
One person involved has been criminally charged; ACORN hasn't. It's not hard to see which one is more credible here.

Got it: ACORN good, O'Keefe and Giles bad.  lol!

Looks like ACORN is pulling up its tent pegs:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0310/Acorn_folds.html?showall

Quote from: guido911 on March 22, 2010, 04:35:25 PM
Looks like ACORN is pulling up its tent pegs:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0310/Acorn_folds.html?showall

And now the charges against O'Keefe in Watergate Jr. have been reduced:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125228538

Quote from: guido911 on March 26, 2010, 06:03:05 PM
And now the charges against O'Keefe in Watergate Jr. have been reduced:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125228538

Quote
The new charges are contained in a bill of information, which can only be filed with a defendant's consent and typically signals a plea deal.

Oh, no! Not another plea bargain! We might make it up to 98% of criminal prosecutions being plead out!  :P

Seriously, the way you phrased that implies that there was something lacking about the evidence to convict in this case, when in all probability (I guess we'll know in a few days) the prosecutor preferred to spend his time prosecuting other cases and offered a plea bargain, as they all do. Way. too. much.

Quote from: nathanm on March 26, 2010, 06:20:44 PM
Oh, no! Not another plea bargain! We might make it up to 98% of criminal prosecutions being plead out!  :P

Seriously, the way you phrased that implies that there was something lacking about the evidence to convict in this case, when in all probability (I guess we'll know in a few days) the prosecutor preferred to spend his time prosecuting other cases and offered a plea bargain, as they all do. Way. too. much.

Wow, what incite. If only I could manage to have that kind of information about a prosecutor I have never met and is in another state.

Quote from: guido911 on March 26, 2010, 06:25:25 PM
Wow, what incite. If only I could manage to have that kind of information about a prosecutor I have never met and is in another state.

It doesn't take insight into the particular prosecutor, it takes insight into the system (and, you know, reading the whole article). Perhaps you could ask a criminal defense attorney how it works.

Quote from: nathanm on March 26, 2010, 07:02:44 PM
It doesn't take insight into the particular prosecutor, it takes insight into the system (and, you know, reading the whole article). Perhaps you could ask a criminal defense attorney how it works.

Snap!

Quote from: nathanm on March 26, 2010, 07:02:44 PM
It doesn't take insight into the particular prosecutor, it takes insight into the system (and, you know, reading the whole article). Perhaps you could ask a criminal defense attorney how it works.

Okay, I'll ask MYSELF since I WORKED as an attorney on criminal cases (have you?), and I would have thought given that a U.S. Senator was involved more would have been done to smack O'Keefe. Also, I would never dare lecture an attorney about the "system" as a freakin layperson. Ballsy though. As for the original charges against O'Keefe and the media's response, does anyone remember that doosh David Shuster's twitter:

http://twitter.com/DavidShuster/status/8265042783

As for the article, what about it are you referring to?

Quote from: guido911 on March 26, 2010, 08:48:48 PM
As for the article, what about it are you referring to?

The part I bolded.

I'm just not understanding what it is you think is so significant or unusual about this development?

Quote from: nathanm on March 27, 2010, 12:10:18 AM
The part I bolded.

I'm just not understanding what it is you think is so significant or unusual about this development?

Nothing in bold indicates that the prosecutor took a plea so he/she could lessen a workload. We will see. This is significant because of the all out media assault (and in this forum) on O'Keefe because he dared to expose ACORN for the frauds they are.

Meanwhile, Ofairy and his droogs plea bargain to keep from a fine of $250,000 and 10 years in prison. Future burglars?

Quote from: guido911 on March 27, 2010, 02:33:11 PM
Nothing in bold indicates that the prosecutor took a plea so he/she could lessen a workload.

That is the usual reason for plea agreements, though, isn't it?

Quote from: fotd on March 27, 2010, 02:35:50 PM
Meanwhile, Ofairy and his droogs plea bargain to keep from a fine of $250,000 and 10 years in prison. Future burglars?

Maybe he go and work on that traitor patriot G Gordon Liddy's radio show, two peas in a pod.

Quote from: nathanm on March 27, 2010, 02:53:14 PM
That is the usual reason for plea agreements, though, isn't it?

In some cases. It could also be that the evidence did not support the charge.

Quote from: swake on March 28, 2010, 12:34:53 PM
Maybe he go and work on that traitor patriot G Gordon Liddy's radio show, two peas in a pod.

What was that BS about me always insulting people. hypocrisy.

Quote from: guido911 on March 28, 2010, 12:42:37 PM
What was that BS about me always insulting people. hypocrisy.

It's not an insult, G Gordon Liddy (who is not a poster here as far as I know) was convicted of trying to subvert a presidential election. That certainly makes him a traitor, that's he's propped up by the a huge portion of the right wing as a conservative icon is sickening.

Queue Guid's standard some random action by a very marginal leftwinger nut job as justification......

Quote from: swake on March 28, 2010, 01:57:00 PM
It's not an insult, G Gordon Liddy (who is not a poster here as far as I know) was convicted of trying to subvert a presidential election. That certainly makes him a traitor, that's he's propped up by the a huge portion of the right wing as a conservative icon is sickening.

Queue Guid's standard some random action by a very marginal leftwinger nut job as justification......

Oh what freakin ever Swake. The insult I was going after you your attack on O'Keefe whom you likened to Liddy ("two peas in a pod"). Is O'Keefe a traitor because he exposed your beloved ACORN for the scum they are? You know, the same ACORN that is just COINCIDENTALLY disbanding and contemplating bankruptcy?

And if your super worried about me hurting the feelings of a forum member by ME calling him "oh genius one" (after that poster made the ____ number "idiot" attack on Palin), maybe you should stop reading the politics forum and grow a pair.

As to your last point, your attempt to preempt a possible response by me, I do not feel the need to point out the nuts on your side. This forum is laden with double standard bearers and I am frankly left to do nothing but laugh at their hypocritical attacks on repubs when just two years ago they were saying the same things about Bush.

Quote from: guido911 on March 28, 2010, 09:33:56 PM
Oh what freakin ever Swake. The insult I was going after you your attack on O'Keefe whom you likened to Liddy ("two peas in a pod"). Is O'Keefe a traitor because he exposed your beloved ACORN for the scum they are? You know, the same ACORN that is just COINCIDENTALLY disbanding and contemplating bankruptcy?

Coincidentally? They are disbanding and contemplating bankruptcy as a direct result of O'Keefe's lies and the credulity with which the media initially treated them driving away donors, not any finding of wrongdoing.

Quote from: guido911 on March 28, 2010, 09:33:56 PM
Oh what freakin ever Swake. The insult I was going after you your attack on O'Keefe whom you likened to Liddy ("two peas in a pod"). Is O'Keefe a traitor because he exposed your beloved ACORN for the scum they are? You know, the same ACORN that is just COINCIDENTALLY disbanding and contemplating bankruptcy?

And if your super worried about me hurting the feelings of a forum member by ME calling him "oh genius one" (after that poster made the ____ number "idiot" attack on Palin), maybe you should stop reading the politics forum and grow a pair.

As to your last point, your attempt to preempt a possible response by me, I do not feel the need to point out the nuts on your side. This forum is laden with double standard bearers and I am frankly left to do nothing but laugh at their hypocritical attacks on repubs when just two years ago they were saying the same things about Bush.

First off, I don't love Acorn, I have no feelings at all about Acorn and my statement about O'Keife isn't about Acorn. I'm talking about his crime of attempting to bug a sitting senators office. Very similar to Watergate. I take it you think that's both actions were just fine then, right? Anything to win.

You constantly feel the need to point out lefty nuts and they aren't on "my side", idiots are idiots, period. And blindly taking sides like what you do is what's wrong with this country. It doesn't matter how ridiculous someone is, if they take "your side", you are defending them.

At least according to O'Keefe, he wasn't trying to bug Landrieu's office.  He was trying to figure out if her claims of her phone system being jacked up were true or if her staff simply was refusing to field calls from constituents.  I've never read any evidence anywhere that they had the equipment to bug the phones.  O'Keefe has denied they had the equipment to bug the phone system.  The plot sounded, from his words, as if they simply wanted to get in there nad see if the phone system was working normally or not, or if Landrieu was lying.  Has anyone read of evidence they had bugging equipment?  I haven't.

"The bill of information says that in mid-January the four men discussed "planning possible scenarios" to engage the staff in the office of Ms. Landrieu, a Democrat, and to record the interactions. They decided that Mr. Basel and Mr. Flanagan would, "while disguised to look like telephone repairmen, state to staff members of the senator that they were following up on reports of problems with the telephone system, engage them in a conversation about the telephone system, and pretend to test the phone system," while Mr. O'Keefe recorded the interactions.

While the prosecutors do not reveal any of the thinking behind the plan, Mr. O'Keefe, in an interview with Sean Hannity of Fox News, said he was investigating accusations by some other conservative activists that Ms. Landrieu's office had ignored phone calls from constituents who were complaining about the health care debate. Ms. Landrieu's office has denied ever ignoring calls and pointed out that voice mail systems of many senators had been strained "from a flood of calls during the most contentious weeks of the health care debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/us/politics/27orleans.html?src=me

Quote from: Conan71 on March 29, 2010, 09:33:56 AM
At least according to O'Keefe, he wasn't trying to bug Landrieu's office.  He was trying to figure out if her claims of her phone system being jacked up were true or if her staff simply was refusing to field calls from constituents.  I've never read any evidence anywhere that they had the equipment to bug the phones.  O'Keefe has denied they had the equipment to bug the phone system.  The plot sounded, from his words, as if they simply wanted to get in there nad see if the phone system was working normally or not, or if Landrieu was lying.  Has anyone read of evidence they had bugging equipment?  I haven't.

"The bill of information says that in mid-January the four men discussed "planning possible scenarios" to engage the staff in the office of Ms. Landrieu, a Democrat, and to record the interactions. They decided that Mr. Basel and Mr. Flanagan would, "while disguised to look like telephone repairmen, state to staff members of the senator that they were following up on reports of problems with the telephone system, engage them in a conversation about the telephone system, and pretend to test the phone system," while Mr. O'Keefe recorded the interactions.

While the prosecutors do not reveal any of the thinking behind the plan, Mr. O'Keefe, in an interview with Sean Hannity of Fox News, said he was investigating accusations by some other conservative activists that Ms. Landrieu's office had ignored phone calls from constituents who were complaining about the health care debate. Ms. Landrieu's office has denied ever ignoring calls and pointed out that voice mail systems of many senators had been strained "from a flood of calls during the most contentious weeks of the health care debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/us/politics/27orleans.html?src=me

And that warranted O'Keefe and his associates to pose as phone company repairmen?  Come on...while it would be nice to find out if the claims she made were true, totally the wrong (and illegal) way to go about it.

Quote from: Hoss on March 29, 2010, 09:40:38 AM
And that warranted O'Keefe and his associates to pose as phone company repairmen?  Come on...while it would be nice to find out if the claims she made were true, totally the wrong (and illegal) way to go about it.

Uh, hello?  If they wanted to pick up a phone and see if they were working correctly what would be the best cover?

Got evidence of bugging or not?

Quote from: Conan71 on March 29, 2010, 09:45:28 AM
Uh, hello?  If they wanted to pick up a phone and see if they were working correctly what would be the best cover?

Got evidence of bugging or not?

You're not listening or reading.  Posing as someone you're not to gain access to a federal building (in this case, an office of Congressperson) is AGAINST THE LAW.  I'm not doubting the logic of it.

Quote from: Conan71 on March 29, 2010, 09:45:28 AM
Uh, hello?  If they wanted to pick up a phone and see if they were working correctly what would be the best cover?

Got evidence of bugging or not?

The FBI said O'Keefe, 25, of New Jersey, used his cell phone to try to capture video of two other men who posed as telephone repairmen and asked to see the phones at Landrieu's office. The fourth allegedly waited outside in a car with a listening device.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOPYG88jeK2TsjGuir7DJFttW5NQD9EMKRF80

Quote from: nathanm on March 28, 2010, 10:51:16 PM
Coincidentally? They are disbanding and contemplating bankruptcy as a direct result of O'Keefe's lies and the credulity with which the media initially treated them driving away donors, not any finding of wrongdoing.

Got it again. ACORN good. O'Keefe bad.

Quote from: swake on March 29, 2010, 09:58:57 AM
The FBI said O'Keefe, 25, of New Jersey, used his cell phone to try to capture video of two other men who posed as telephone repairmen and asked to see the phones at Landrieu's office. The fourth allegedly waited outside in a car with a listening device.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOPYG88jeK2TsjGuir7DJFttW5NQD9EMKRF80

Sorry, I'm a stickler for facts.  Nowhere does that story say a thing about bugging a phone system.  If one of the guys was waiting outside with a listening device, it very well could have been to recieve input from a hidden mic one of them was wearing.  Vastly different than bugging a phone system.  I'm just saying the man accused denies having bugging equipment and nowhere did the prosecution say there was such an attempt.  The final charges don't bear that out.  My read is they went in to capture on video that the phone system was working while Landrieu was trying to claim it was not working and that's why constituents could not get ahold of her staff.

"Federal authorities initially accused the four of trying to tamper with Landrieu's phones, but the new filing merely says they planned to pretend to test the phone system."

That's hardly the result of a plea deal, IMO.  That would have been some serious crap trying to bug a Federally-owned (I'm assuming) Senator's phone system, and you'd never wind up with a charge similar to malicious mischief out of that if these guys would have had bugging equipment on them.

Yep, these guys broke the law.  But this is a prime example of the exaggerations used in a hostile political environment to doosh up the opponent's team as much as possible.

Quote from: Conan71 on March 29, 2010, 10:28:00 AM
"Federal authorities initially accused the four of trying to tamper with Landrieu's phones, but the new filing merely says they planned to pretend to test the phone system."

That's hardly the result of a plea deal, IMO.  That would have been some serious crap trying to bug a Federally-owned (I'm assuming) Senator's phone system, and you'd never wind up with a charge similar to malicious mischief out of that if these guys would have had bugging equipment on them.

It's a plea deal:

QuoteJ. Garrison Jordan, a lawyer for defendant Robert Flanagan, said his client has "an agreement worked out with the government" but wouldn't elaborate.
"I think it's a fair resolution to the charges, and I'm happy with the agreement we've worked out," he said.

Quote from: Conan71 on March 29, 2010, 10:28:00 AM
Yep, these guys broke the law.  But this is a prime example of the exaggerations used in a hostile political environment to doosh up the opponent's team as much as possible.

Kind of like what O'Keefe did to Acorn? Like wearing different clothes before and after the videos to make it seem like he was dressed like a clownish pimp while he was in the Acorn offices?  Like his editing the videos to make the people in the offices look as bad as possible? Like he omitted the fact that two different offices called the police on him regarding what he said in the interviews?

Certainly Acorn had some bad people working for them.  They were in many cases helping street people, and would often the same people once they got on their feet. In that context what happened is not shocking. Was Acorn corrupt as an political organization, I don't know. At least part of their leadership was financially corrupt. Did they have some really shady idiots working for them, certainly, obviously. Did they provide help to people that needed it? Yes again. Hopefully a less shady and better run organization will replace them.

Quote from: swake on March 29, 2010, 10:50:19 AM


Kind of like what O’Keefe did to Acorn? Like wearing different clothes before and after the videos to make it seem like he was dressed like a clownish pimp while he was in the Acorn offices?  Like his editing the videos to make the people in the offices look as bad as possible? Like he omitted the fact that two different offices called the police on him regarding what he said in the interviews?

Exactly like that.

You apparently missed what I was saying about a plea deal.  There's no way the Feds would have reduced charges to something akin to malicious mischief from supposedly bugging a Federally-owned phone system.  That's a major no-no.  Show me the evidence they bugged or had the equipment to bug the phone system and I'll shut up.  This is simply an example of how much exaggeration gets thrown into partisan politics these days to try and discredit the opposition.  Much like Tea Partiers are made to look like a bunch of neanderthals by supposedly being behind every death threat toward a Congressman, stray bullet, and private airplane which crashes into a government building.

Quote from: Conan71 on March 29, 2010, 11:08:15 AM
Exactly like that.

You apparently missed what I was saying about a plea deal.  There's no way the Feds would have reduced charges of something akin to malicious mischief from supposedly bugging a Federally-owned phone system.  That's a major no-no.  Show me the evidence they bugged or had the equipment to bug the phone system and I'll shut up.  This is simply an example of how much exaggeration gets thrown into partisan politics these days to try and discredit the opposition.  Much like Tea Partiers are made to look like a bunch of neanderthals by supposedly being behind every death threat toward a Congressman, stray bullet, and private airplane which crashes into a government building.

Ease up...it's so obvious what O'Fairy was up to and you seem to think breaking and entering a Senators office is law abiding? You don't think his little ACORN set ups were exaggerations...such a hypo critter

Quote from: fotd on March 29, 2010, 11:43:53 AM
Ease up...it's so obvious what O'Fairy was up to and you seem to think breaking and entering a Senators office is law abiding? You don't think his little ACORN set ups were exaggerations...such a hypo critter

Ho-hum.  Try catching up with the rest of us before you comment.

"Yep, these guys broke the law.  But this is a prime example of the exaggerations used in a hostile political environment to doosh up the opponent's team as much as possible."

Quote from: guido911 on March 29, 2010, 10:18:40 AM
Got it again. ACORN good. O'Keefe bad.

It's got nothing to do with a value judgement about either of them. That's what happened, bare of any speculation.

Quote from: swake on March 29, 2010, 10:50:19 AM


It's a plea deal:


Kind of like what O'Keefe did to Acorn? Like wearing different clothes before and after the videos to make it seem like he was dressed like a clownish pimp while he was in the Acorn offices?  Like his editing the videos to make the people in the offices look as bad as possible? Like he omitted the fact that two different offices called the police on him regarding what he said in the interviews?

Certainly Acorn had some bad people working for them.  They were in many cases helping street people, and would often the same people once they got on their feet. In that context what happened is not shocking. Was Acorn corrupt as an political organization, I don't know. At least part of their leadership was financially corrupt. Did they have some really shady idiots working for them, certainly, obviously. Did they provide help to people that needed it? Yes again. Hopefully a less shady and better run organization will replace them.

Come on Swake, those ACORN folks in Baltimore were giving advice on the tax implications of bringing in underage sex slaves from El Salvador. Is there any way but a bad light that could shine on that. As for ACORN in general, 2 members were recently charged with voter fraud in Wisconsin:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/08/acorn-registration-workers-charged-felony-voter-fraud/

The brother of ACORN's founder embezzled $5M from ACORN:

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2009/10/05/embezzlement-acorn-founder-wade-rathke-embezzled-5-million-from-louisiana-acorn-subpoena-issued/

I am not sure how reliable this site is, but it details alleged ACORN voter irregularities:

http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html#nv

Quote from: guido911 on March 29, 2010, 04:11:09 PM
Come on Swake, those ACORN folks in Baltimore were giving advice on the tax implications of bringing in underage sex slaves from El Salvador. Is there any way but a bad light that could shine on that. As for ACORN in general, 2 members were recently charged with voter fraud in Wisconsin:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/08/acorn-registration-workers-charged-felony-voter-fraud/

The brother of ACORN's founder embezzled $5M from ACORN:

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2009/10/05/embezzlement-acorn-founder-wade-rathke-embezzled-5-million-from-louisiana-acorn-subpoena-issued/

I am not sure how reliable this site is, but it details alleged ACORN voter irregularities:

http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html#nv

Come on Guid,

There are far more opportunities for El Salvidorian sex slaves in the United States than in El Salvidor.  In 5 or 10 years these young women will be of voting age, and with the upcoming amnesty legislation they will be citizens with free healthcare and a future.

Acorn was simply trying to open new possibilities for these young women.

Quote from: guido911 on March 29, 2010, 04:11:09 PM
The brother of ACORN's founder embezzled $5M from ACORN:

I probably shouldn't let you in on this; it may be too much for your innocent ears, but here goes: Embezzlement is a depressingly regular occurrence in business, large and small. Moreover, the perps are usually not caught until they decide to step up to the big leagues and steal millions. :(

Quote from: nathanm on March 29, 2010, 04:32:18 PM
I probably shouldn't let you in on this; it may be too much for your innocent ears, but here goes: Embezzlement is a depressingly regular occurrence in business, large and small. Moreover, the perps are usually not caught until they decide to step up to the big leagues and steal millions. :(

You apparently missed the point. People blaming ACORN's downfall solely on O'Keefe, and flat ignoring ACORN's own sh!tty business practices and allegations of fraud, plainly do not know or refuse to discover the truth. Hey, let's blame the lying conservative "white kid" for taking down a mammoth organization which had access to millions in government money and not those in the organization. 

Quote from: guido911 on March 29, 2010, 05:48:25 PM
Hey, let's blame the lying conservative "white kid" for taking down a mammoth organization which had access to millions in government money and not those in the organization. 

Let's do that, since the proximate cause of their closure is the lack of donations. The lack of donations which was set off by O'Keefe's activities.

Quote from: nathanm on March 29, 2010, 08:36:39 PM
Let's do that, since the proximate cause of their closure is the lack of donations. The lack of donations which was set off by O'Keefe's activities.

Thought it was because Congress suspended their federal funding?

Quote from: Gaspar on March 30, 2010, 08:21:24 AM
Thought it was because Congress suspended their federal funding?

No dammit, it's the lying white kid (and let's not forget the lying white girl posing as the prostitute and the lying ACORN folks that were fired because of what they said that everyone forgets about)!  :D

Hmm. 

ACORN operates under several different names, but the Chicago based ACORN received 75% of it's funding from the government.

Don't worry, this is all smoke screen.  ACORN is not gone, nor is the "good work" they do.  They have simply disbanded and re-branded under different names.  This news was engineered to provide a "clean slate" for the new groups. 

If all goes well we will see them funded by the administration soon.  They are the grass roots campaign wing of this administration.  They are necessary.

Communities for Change
Alliance Community Empowerment
United for Justice
Affordable Housing Centers of America, Inc
Reform Empowerment, Inc.
Community Hope, Inc.

Yes, it's a terrible thing to get people more involved in the political process. For shame!

And Gaspar? Can you at least try? 10% of their funding was from the federal government. 10%. It took all of 20 seconds to look it up.

Don't you think if there were real wrongdoing that some DA, somewhere would have brought charges?

Quote from: nathanm on March 30, 2010, 01:50:13 PM
Yes, it's a terrible thing to get people more involved in the political process. For shame!

Except of course those racist violent teabaggers; right?

Quote from: guido911 on March 30, 2010, 01:51:45 PM
Except of course those racist violent teabaggers; right?

No, I'm glad the teabaggers are engaged, I just wish they'd base their ranting on reality rather than Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck's fertile imaginations. And quit committing political violence.

Maybe you're projecting?

Quote from: nathanm on March 30, 2010, 01:55:55 PM

Maybe you're projecting?

Maybe I am pointing out hypocrisy. Oh, and I wish ACORN would quit giving advice on how to "write off" underage sex slaves.

Quote from: guido911 on March 30, 2010, 02:01:04 PM
Maybe I am pointing out hypocrisy. Oh, and I wish ACORN would quit giving advice on how to "write off" underage sex slaves.

Given the editing of the video and audio, I think it's a stretch to say for certain that is actually what happened. Who knows what question was actually asked.

Yes, I'm a hypocrite because I want every person who can handle political engagement without getting violent to be politically engaged. Some of us actually believe in representative democracy, thanks.

Quote from: nathanm on March 30, 2010, 02:08:11 PM
Given the editing of the video and audio, I think it's a stretch to say for certain that is actually what happened. Who knows what question was actually asked.

Yes, I'm a hypocrite because I want every person who can handle political engagement without getting violent to be politically engaged. Some of us actually believe in representative democracy, thanks.

BRILLIANCE!

Quote from: nathanm on March 30, 2010, 02:08:11 PM
Given the editing of the video and audio, I think it's a stretch to say for certain that is actually what happened. Who knows what question was actually asked.

Yes, I'm a hypocrite because I want every person who can handle political engagement without getting violent to be politically engaged. Some of us actually believe in representative democracy, thanks.

ACORN people were freakin fired and Congress cut off their money. But okay, keep your fingers in your ears.

As for your last point, here's a story from the 2008 GOP convention where violence and vandalism ruled.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/rnc-protests.html

I assume you held those folks in as much contempt as you do the teabaggers. Please post the link in this forum where you condemned those folks so I can compare.

Quote from: guido911 on March 30, 2010, 03:22:06 PM
I assume you held those folks in as much contempt as you do the teabaggers. Please post the link in this forum where you condemned those folks so I can compare.

I hold political violence in contempt no matter who is doing it. Whether or not I post about a particular incident has no bearing on my position. If you haven't noticed, I'm not generally one to bring up stupid partisan smile here, only respond to it after somebody else has created the thread.

Quote from: nathanm on March 30, 2010, 01:50:13 PM
Yes, it's a terrible thing to get people more involved in the political process. For shame!

And Gaspar? Can you at least try? 10% of their funding was from the federal government. 10%. It took all of 20 seconds to look it up.

Don't you think if there were real wrongdoing that some DA, somewhere would have brought charges?

Different for different states.  As I mentioned the ACORN wing in Chicago received 75% of their funding from various government grants and programs.

Quote from: nathanm on March 30, 2010, 01:50:13 PM


Don't you think if there were real wrongdoing that some DA, somewhere would have brought charges?

And do you think if the O'Keefe phone crew really were trying to wire tap phones that they would have all walked off with pleas to something which basically is along the lines of malicious mischief?

Nixon's plumbers fared a whole lot worse.

Quote from: nathanm on March 30, 2010, 03:24:58 PM
I hold political violence in contempt no matter who is doing it. Whether or not I post about a particular incident has no bearing on my position. If you haven't noticed, I'm not generally one to bring up stupid partisan smile here, only respond to it after somebody else has created the thread.

Translation:  I'll speak out against Republican acts of violence but expect to hear crickets when its Democrat acts of violence.

Violence is violence.  It's wrong, and evolves into a platform for continued dooshbagness.

Quote from: guido911 on March 30, 2010, 04:54:09 PM
Translation:  I'll speak out against Republican acts of violence but expect to hear crickets when its Democrat acts of violence.

I'll speak out against any acts of political violence that are brought to my attention. Not that I'm under any obligation to do so because you have a double standard.

This is one juicy thread.

Just watched Maddow's coverage of the California Attorney general investigative report.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7783

excerpt: " On Friday night, responding to the CA AG's finding that the ACORN "Pimp" Hoax videos --- as created and published by righwing con-artists James O'Keefe, Hannah Giles, and Andrew Breitbart --- were precisely the hoax we'd long described them as, MSNBC's Rachel Maddow hit it out of the park, detailing precisely the reason we've been focused on this point for so long: "The triumph of fake politics...The unmooring of politics from facts," and the unforgivable truth that you've heard far more about the partisan-driven hoax/politics agenda in the media, than about the fact that that these things were all hoaxes.

Maddow takes the opportunity to highlight not only the "triumph" of the ACORN "Pimp" Hoax, but of other successful GOP-played/MSM-enabled scams such as "ClimateGate" (also near and dear to our hearts as we've covered that scam in great depth in our Green News Reports for months, most recently on Thursday), faked GOP outrage about recess appointments, health insurance reform, Miranda rights and civilian trials for accused terrorists, the stimulus bill, "death panels," Obama's birth certificate, supposed threats to the Second Amendment, armed IRS agents coming to get you, abuse of the census, Obama's "plans" to ban sport fishing, et al.

These things are, as she declares in no uncertain terms, "all bull." Yet, she adds, "there's more bang for the political buck to make stuff up like this than to try to debate real problems in the real world. So just go with the bull"...

There sure are many posties at TNF who appear naive through out this thread.

And Gwee, I will not mistaken your sarcastic "Giles,O'Keefe bad" comments as being right. They make you look like a dumb a$$ lawyer.

I guess they clear 2 of the people in the video but not the third.  I like how the "child trafficking" guy calls the police after they leave.  Of course Fox news wouldn't report that.  LOL.

Quote from: Trogdor on April 08, 2010, 12:45:54 PM
Of course Fox news wouldn't report that.  LOL.

And it takes away too much of the funny factor for them to report that O'Keefe wasn't actually dressed in his ridiculous pimp costume while he was in any of the ACORN offices.

Turns out Okeefe is a pimp.....for the lying GOP whores.

This thread is awesome. 

Too late as the bad guys won.....

Perfect example of how pathetic Americans have become from lousy educational institutions and MSM creepiness....

Fox Failed to Vet O'Keefe's Deceptively Edited Video and 'Reporting' – ACORN Cleared of Wrongdoing in California

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/08/fox-failed-to-vet-okeefes-deceptively-edited-video/

The New York Times couldn't stop the presses fast enough to run this unsubstantiated slander. The Times never met a right wing lie they couldn't love.  "A legitimate news organization would have checked O'Keefe's reporting. The raw footage would have been accounted for and follow up calls would have been made." Funny, a legitimate news organization apparently doesn't exist in America.

Okay, I'm taking bets on the following, choose one:

A:Glenn Beck apologizes for false reporting on Friday

B:Glenn Beck falls of the wagon and is removed from Faux.

Ruppert Murdoch's hero, Elliot Carver

Whew!!!   Talk about a BREATHTAKING turn around!!

Violence is violence.  And it's wrong....

Fly that in the face of the cheering and jeering for the video of the Apache helicopter mowing down unarmed civilians.  Just a day or two ago.


What is even more amazing is the people that are still taking the Republicontin and falling into the Cheney/Rove/Murdoch cesspool.

Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 08, 2010, 10:12:57 PM
Whew!!!   Talk about a BREATHTAKING turn around!!

cheering and jeering for the video of the Apache helicopter mowing down unarmed civilians. 

You guys are a riot.  I love it when you all get in a thread and just whack-it together.
:D

These are better than the old 20 page FOTD threads, where he just talked to himself for months.

O'Keefe behavior bad.
Acorn behavior still worse.

Quote from: Gaspar on April 09, 2010, 07:39:32 AM
You guys are a riot.  I love it when you all get in a thread and just whack-it together.
:D

These are better than the old 20 page FOTD threads, where he just talked to himself for months.

O'Keefe behavior bad.
Acorn behavior still worse.

How is ACORN behavior worse?

Those threads of FOTD were intended to be dominating. Can you identify them? I think one may be centered on the domestic right wing terrorism which seems to continue being an important topic (lest we forget Murrah?) and another thread which may have focused on the right wing media that's lost credibility (ask Tom Coburn). I recall a couple dominating threads advocating for then Senator Obama...maybe one or two threads ridiculing our idiot in the White House before 2009.

Sometimes I feel like I am yelling sex offender in a gassed up hillbilly family reunion here at TNF.

Future dominating threads: Obama's replacement for Stephens in the SCROTUM....The  fate of the GOP....and, of course, the dumbing down of our city. And I will continue to drum beat against hate and intolerance.

Quote from: fotd on April 09, 2010, 11:50:19 AM
Future dominating threads: Obama's replacement for Stephens in the SCROTUM....The  fate of the GOP....and, of course, the dumbing down of our city. And I will continue to drum beat against hate and intolerance.

I will continue to skip anything you post longer than one screen.

Quote from: fotd on April 09, 2010, 11:50:19 AM


Sometimes I feel like I am yelling sex offender in a gassed up hillbilly family reunion here at TNF.

YOU ROCK!

Quote from: Gaspar on April 09, 2010, 07:39:32 AM
Acorn behavior still worse.

Which behavior would that be? Calling the cops on O'Keefe in San Diego and other cities? Being embezzled from? Telling Giles (posing as a prostitute) "it'll be OK, you can get a house someday"? Going out of business because of twits like yourself (and a whole lotta congresspeople) who actually believed the BS these two were peddling?

(http://www.spooncraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/beat_dead_horse2.jpg)

Quote from: Conan71 on April 09, 2010, 02:50:40 PM
(http://www.spooncraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/beat_dead_horse2.jpg)

No kidding. The lengths people will go to defend the giving of tax advice for keeping Salvadorean sex slaves. Oh wait, now I'm:

(http://www.bittermancircle.com/my%20images/BeatDeadHorse.gif)

(http://static.baseballtoaster.com/blogs/u/bronxbanter/2008/1004/0001/2234992576_cbb1c95d76_640.jpg)

With the new amnesty bill in the pipeline, Salvadorean sex slaves are future voters.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4505813147_aabf650b09_o.jpg)

Quote from: Gaspar on April 09, 2010, 04:39:25 PM
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4505813147_aabf650b09_o.jpg)

OMG! That's freakin awesome.

Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2010, 04:22:41 PM
No kidding. The lengths people will go to defend the giving of tax advice for keeping Salvadorean sex slaves. Oh wait, now I'm:

While repeating a lie often enough might make some people believe it is true, that does not make it factual.

Lies are the stock in trade of the Cheney/Rove/Murdoch gang.

Acorn is worse in exactly the same way that Billy Bob was worse for having sex in the Oval Office, while the guy leading the charge (Newt) was spending 8 or 10 years doing the same thing with his girl friend.  But then Newt did have the decency and sense of family values to then go ahead and leave his wife so he could marry his little floozy.  Yeah,...worse like that.

O'Keefe (sp?) is just a regular "good ole boy".

Quote from: nathanm on April 09, 2010, 02:31:31 PM
Which behavior would that be? Calling the cops on O'Keefe in San Diego and other cities? Being embezzled from? Telling Giles (posing as a prostitute) "it'll be OK, you can get a house someday"? Going out of business because of twits like yourself (and a whole lotta congresspeople) who actually believed the BS these two were peddling?

Here's your hero Nate:

Quote from: guido911 on April 25, 2010, 12:48:38 PM
Here's your hero Nate:

Sorry, I'm not really into watching boring speeches. Do you have a summary or transcript? I got to "young, and democratic, and socialist" before I got bored.  :o

Quote from: nathanm on April 25, 2010, 04:59:37 PM
Sorry, I'm not really into watching boring speeches. Do you have a summary or transcript? I got to "young, and democratic, and socialist" before I got bored.  :o

Just poking at ya a bit.

Appellate court reverses district court ruling that Congress could not cut off funds to ACORN:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5goHmEoyYhLPQ7xhPuFBAM-gBjbUAD9HIOI900

Well, the defunding of ACORN has finally run its litigation course, and, ACORN, BOHICA!

QuoteWASHINGTON – The Supreme Court won't hear an appeal from ACORN, the activist group driven to ruin by scandal and financial woes, over being banned from getting federal funds.

The high court on Monday refused to review a federal court's decision to uphold Congress's ban on federal funds for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

Congress cut off ACORN's federal funding last year in response to allegations the group engaged in voter registration fraud and embezzlement and violated the tax-exempt status of some of its affiliates by engaging in partisan political activities.

ACORN sued, but the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York City upheld the action. The high court refused to hear its appeal.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110620/ap_on_re_us/us_supreme_court_acorn_lawsuit

What did the five fingers say to the face ACORN?

O'Keefe's stock-in-trade is lies.  Very much the Murdochian.

You should be happy that once again lies were accepted as truth. Personally, I'm rather sad, not for the loss of ACORN (whom I could hardly care less about as an organization), but for the confirmation of my worst fears: That our country can't be saved, because people simply can't figure out what is true and what is false thanks to the media.

Quote from: nathanm on June 20, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
You should be happy that once again lies were accepted as truth. Personally, I'm rather sad, not for the loss of ACORN (whom I could hardly care less about as an organization), but for the confirmation of my worst fears: That our country can't be saved, because people simply can't figure out what is true and what is false thanks to the media.

Really?

Quoteinvocations of Sarah Palin frequently employed the line "I can see Russia from my house," rather than the words she actually spoke, "You can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/seealaska.asp

And by "you" I assume you are referring to Congress who stripped ACORN of its funding, not me.

http://current.com/shows/countdown/videos/chris-harris-analyzes-james-okeefes-possible-civil-sexual-harassment-suit

I just love going through some old threads.....show your colors!

Still watching American Pravda, eh?

Apparently not enough evidence for criminal charges.  Again, as I said on the Cain thread, it's really easy to bring sexual harassment claims.  The bar is set pretty low on it.  If a Jury or judge believes O'keefe is guilty, I hope he pays up big.  Other problem you've got is sexual harassment is the current fad on besmirching the character of those on the right.

What ever happened to toe-tapping?

Quote from: Conan71 on December 22, 2011, 10:59:52 PM
Still watching American Pravda, eh?

Apparently not enough evidence for criminal charges.  Again, as I said on the Cain thread, it's really easy to bring sexual harassment claims.  The bar is set pretty low on it.  If a Jury or judge believes O'keefe is guilty, I hope he pays up big.  Other problem you've got is sexual harassment is the current fad on besmirching the character of those on the right.

What ever happened to toe-tapping?

The toe tappers are still hanging up in their closets....but ever since the gay bug prayer to heal thingy subsided, there was no need to turn on the closet light.

Harassment is a big winner in the gender wars...it's not limited to the right. The left just has a better grip on their guns.

Have you had your shots?

Oh, Olberdoosh is real news, it's not racist, sexist, hateful, nor a right-wing propaganda machine.

Quote from: Teatownclown on December 23, 2011, 07:59:09 AM

Oh, Olberdoosh is real news, it's not racist, sexist, hateful, nor a right-wing propaganda machine.

The only thing you got right on that comment is that he's not a right-wing propaganda machine.  Keef's a hater.

Quote from: Conan71 on December 23, 2011, 08:05:35 AM
The only thing you got right on that comment is that he's not a right-wing propaganda machine.  Keef's a hater.

Yes. We are all haters of intolerance, oppression, and those that lack integrity. 8)

Quote from: Conan71 on December 22, 2011, 10:59:52 PM
Still watching American Pravda, eh?

Huh, we have a state media network (well, other than Voice of America..)?

Quote from: nathanm on December 23, 2011, 06:13:33 PM
Huh, we have a state media network (well, other than Voice of America..)?

Sure, ABCCBSNBCPBSMSNBCCNN

Glenn, is that you?

Another innocent victim of James O'Keefe resigns.

https://www.projectveritas.com/enroll-america-director-resigns-2/