The new cash of household appliances being considered, as reported, will not require a person to furnish the one being replaced. One will only walk into a dealership and say "Give me one of those stimulus energy saving models".
If one is planning to buy a new appliance now they will just wait and see how the rebate works out. The appliance sales person need to pull up a chair because there may be a wait for customers to come in.
Do you believe a tax increase is needed to cover the cost to subsidize the falling sales of household appliances?
As long as my new microwave is lined with Reynolds Wrap to keep the radiation from interfering with my brain waves and allowing me to communicate with beings from Andromeda, I'm fine with it. :P
Properly constructed, a rebate/credit/whatever for new energy efficient appliances would be a great way to relieve the strain on our aging electrical infrastructure, thus saving us billions in upgrades. Not to mention the environmental benefits.
We have done the same thing with tax incentives/disincentives in the past. Mostly I think they have been effective. Getting to deduct mortgage interest from my itemized taxes has given me some real pleasure.
I don't think the clunkers program should be repeated in other categories without some very good reasons that are specifically detailed. I could see expanding some credits for solar energy, or purchases of energy efficient heating/cooling systems etc. This idea that if a little bit of stimulus works then a whole lot will work even better is drunk talk.
Quote from: nathanm on August 25, 2009, 08:29:14 PM
Properly constructed, a rebate/credit/whatever for new energy efficient appliances would be a great way to relieve the strain on our aging electrical infrastructure, thus saving us billions in upgrades. Not to mention the environmental benefits.
Most appliances (except refrigerators) seem to last 5 to 7 years. Trashing them before their time is a waste of the energy used to build them. Building new appliances is not without an energy cost either. Unlike cars which use a huge amount of energy over their life, the energy savings of new appliances are unlikely to make up for the waste of energy associated with early destruction. Normal appliance attrition may be a better expenditure of resources. Use the money to upgrade the electrical infrastructure to be more efficient and environmentally friendly and in 10 years you have a more efficient and robust electrical grid
and more efficient appliances. Otherwise you have efficient appliances and an energy supply ready to fall apart. You won't be able to run them no matter how efficient they are.
Show me some numbers otherwise and I will be willing to listen.
STOP THE MADNESS!
So far, the government will:
Give you money
Give you housing
Give you food
Handle your retirement
Give you drugs
Give you health care
Buy you a car
......
now, they're talking about buying you appliances.
When does the madness stop? The government is hoping to buy your future votes.
Way too simplistic. If you want the government to bow out of all those areas, expect some chaos. This isn't the late 19th century no matter how badly the wingers would like that.
Quote from: Wilbur on August 26, 2009, 06:01:03 AM
STOP THE MADNESS!
So far, the government will:
Give you money
Give you housing
Give you food
Handle your retirement
Give you drugs
Give you health care
Buy you a car
......
Well, you're one for seven. (The government will, supposedly, handle my retirement) Not too bad for so early in the morning, I suppose.
Can I get retroactive money if I was responsible enough to replace my inefficient appliances last year?
Dishwasher, refrigerator, and my microwave were all replaced. All were models from 1990 or so and I wanted more efficient ones/those ones were in various stages of disrepair. Where's my check?
Also looking for a rebate on the fuel efficient cars I bought several years ago.
Similarly, I have a mortgage I can afford. Where's my check?
Pay for my own food. Check please.
Have health insurance we pay for. Send me my money.
Contribute to my own retirement account. Can I get a matching contribution?
What we need is a cash for responsibility program.
Who's next? Maybe we can get a cash handout to be used on attorney fees. Or to help people sell used fishing boats. There has to be some government program I can lobby for that will send me some of this government money. As it stands, I, as well as most the rest of the nation, are paying for these checks for no apparent reason.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 26, 2009, 09:55:54 AM
Can I get retroactive money if I was responsible enough to replace my inefficient appliances last year?
Yet somehow I did the same and I don't feel the need to complain about not getting any incentive. The price was right then, so why should I be upset that others might get some incentive to purchase? It's a net societal good.
I'm not saying that we
should subsidize energy efficient appliances generally, although it might be worth it for appliances like FL washers that have the double whammy of significantly reduced energy consumption and significantly reduced water consumption. What I am saying is that it
may be something worth considering. The benefits might far outweigh the costs. Maybe not. It's worth thinking about.
Dishwasher, refrigerator, and my microwave were all replaced. All were models from 1990 or so and I wanted more efficient ones/those ones were in various stages of disrepair. Where's my check?
Energy Star Rebates, But it depends on the state.
Also looking for a rebate on the fuel efficient cars I bought several years ago.
You didn't buy a hybrid then or you would have gotten the rebate
Similarly, I have a mortgage I can afford. Where's my check?
Mortgage Interest Tax Deduction
Pay for my own food. Check please.
You don't get the check, the farmers do.. You are SOL on this one.
Have health insurance we pay for. Send me my money.
Health Insurance isn't a taxable benefit (yet) and if you pay you can get a tax deduction.
Contribute to my own retirement account. Can I get a matching contribution?
If you worked for a non profit and had a 403b you could (depending on your income).
Here is a good one
Craig T. Nelson, in May, on Beck's show:
"What happened to society? I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision."
Quote from: nathanm on August 26, 2009, 10:27:51 AM
Yet somehow I did the same and I don't feel the need to complain about not getting any incentive. The price was right then, so why should I be upset that others might get some incentive to purchase? It's a net societal good.
How in the he!! is my subsidizing someone elses ability to purchase an appliance good for me? You know, I am really beginning to think in all seriousness that you are a socialist Nate.
Quote from: guido911 on August 26, 2009, 10:50:06 AM
How in the he!! is my subsidizing someone elses ability to purchase an appliance good for me? You know, I am really beginning to think in all seriousness that you are a socialist Nate.
If by socialist you mean that I think that government can be an agent of good as well as evil, then I proudly wear your label. Neither government nor private enterprise have a monopoly on either.
Although you didn't seem to note that I didn't write that an appliance subsidy would be good
for me. It wouldn't be good or bad for me. It wouldn't have any real effect on me at all, aside from the possible reduction in energy costs due to slackened demand. A couple of billion for appliances, cars, or whatever else won't cause my taxes to go up. The hundred billion we spend each year on cold war era weapons systems that have no place in modern warfare probably will at some point, though.
My point was that it doesn't
hurt me when other people get a better deal than I did. Obviously I was fine with the deal I got or I wouldn't have put cash on the table.
I want Uncle Sam to buy me a toaster.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 26, 2009, 01:57:48 PM
I want Uncle Sam to buy me a toaster.
Can't you still get a free one for opening a checking account somewhere?
Quote from: Conan71 on August 26, 2009, 02:00:56 PM
Can't you still get a free one for opening a checking account somewhere?
I have heard about some banks giving out toasters but like before it was easer to open a bank account than it was to get the money out. Many banks placed sign on their doors saying they were closed.
If this stimulus payment had existed during the 30's all appliances would have been free under the government provided jobs.
All used appliances could be crushed and sold to China to feed their steel mills like Japan did prior to WWll. But now China has reduced their demand and scrap steel is bringing very little per pound.
WWll brought us out of the depression but we should not depend on that to end this depression as we are about 29 minutes from launch to the complete destruction of any city in U.S.
I don't "have" to have a new dish washer... But if I was given a $100 credit for replacing my 16 year old dishwasher I would jump all over it.
Quote from: Trogdor on August 27, 2009, 09:35:10 AM
I don't "have" to have a new dish washer... But if I was given a $100 credit for replacing my 16 year old dishwasher I would jump all over it.
The only 16 year old anything that I can think of that would wash dishes is a son or daughter threatened with loss of something. I don't think you are allowed to trade kids in like that. ;D