I nominate 81st Street, between Yale and Harvard.
Two lane, rutted, pot-holed, broken-up, and no shoulder.
What's your Favorite?
Quote from: Friendly Bear on August 09, 2009, 05:39:53 PM
I nominate 81st Street, between Yale and Harvard.
Two lane, rutted, pot-holed, broken-up, and no shoulder.
What's your Favorite?
And it's been like that for over 30 years.
Yale between 21st & 36th.
South Peoria between 51st and 41st is a moonscape.
Very bad.
The roads in my neighborhood are wonderful. The roads near my office and warehouse downtown are wonderful. The highway I take into work has also been recently repaved as well.
I think you guys just look for the worse and then whine about it. Let's start a thread about the best streets in Tulsa.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 09, 2009, 10:34:22 PM
The roads in my neighborhood are wonderful. The roads near my office and warehouse downtown are wonderful. The highway I take into work has also been recently repaved as well.
You sound just like a city councilor or county commissioner.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 09, 2009, 10:34:22 PM
The roads in my neighborhood are wonderful. The roads near my office and warehouse downtown are wonderful. The highway I take into work has also been recently repaved as well.
I think you guys just look for the worse and then whine about it. Let's start a thread about the best streets in Tulsa.
Various commenters in previousl Topics have indicated that Mayor Taylor has directed $50 million in road building DOWNTOWN, in order to pretty up ingress and egress to the Bank of Kaiser Arena.
For sizzle.
Beyond the core few blocks of the downtown area, the streets are just as bad as about anywhere else in Tulsa, with some terrible and others just poor condition.
Surprisingly, there's stretches on Lewis between 21st and 31st, in Tulsa's Mid-Town power corridor, that are pitted and pot-holed.
Sharing the pain, I presume.....
Quote from: Conan71 on August 09, 2009, 11:00:15 PM
You sound just like a city councilor or county commissioner.
+1.
My road retains water. It has crumbling sections and is generally pocked up. Swerving to one side or another to avoid known dangers is common.
I once dented a wheel well on the highway home from work in a pothole. Seriously, it ate my wheel. Obviously blowing out the tire.
I pass through 31st and Harvard on my way to work every day. I drive an SUV and worry about its well being. An SUV with an off-road package shouldn't have to slow down for an intersection because it is that worn/rutted/potholed. On the rest of my short drive I swerve several times to avoid pot holes, sunken areas, and various other maladies. But 31st and Harvard is my nomination for worst road.
Heck, even when we redo them apparently it isn't done right. Brookside was never right. The BA is apparently already falling apart. Really makes one wonder.
Honestly, my wife and I road bikes to TU and back South through midtown. At one point we were on a new paved road and my wife commented "can you imagine how much nicer a road like this would make our neighborhood seem?" As I thought about it, having a nice road does make an area seem much better. And it is a fairly rare sight in Tulsa.
If you think the roads are fine, drive from the BA north on Harvard to 41st. Drive on Yale or Sheridan from 11th to 36th St. North. Pick a random neighborhood and drive through it. There are a lot more areas that are god awful than are really nice. Which is why Tulsa consistently gets either a FAILING or near FAILING grade on every street review.
How do you like that northbound lane of Harvard crossing 41st, Cannon? That's a rough one.
It isn't as bad as 31st. Of course, going North from 41st you have the intersection and immediately afterwords get to dodge a sink hole. Which keeps it interesting. :-\
East 51st Street between Harvard and Yale has become a pot-holed, tire torture track, especially westbound.
Maybe Councilor Martinsen was on to something in his recent detailed city budget (historical and current) analysis:
He concluded that 100% of the city's 2-cents sales tax operating budget is now totally absorbed solely by the police and fire operations.
That leaves the remainder of the city budget, including routine street maintenance, patching, paving, and crack filling to be funded from other sources: Fees, fines, Water & Sewer fees, etc.
I'm refering to routine maintenance, not new roadbuilding that the 3rd Penny sales tax funds, albeit less and less at each tax renewal.
Now, declining down to only about 28% of the total 3rd Penny spending package.
Police Cars (800 Take-Home Police Cars for 800 policemen), fire trucks, police helicopters, etc. siphon $$millions from the 3rd Penny annually that could at least partially be spent on road improvements, widening and re-builds.
It's all a matter of priorities.....
In re: Martinson.
I look at it this way: we are only going to pay $400-some million for more schlocky repairs instead of $2 bln for schlocky repairs like Martinson wanted.
I think we're referring to two different analyses.
I'm recalling a more recent budget analysis, associated with the recently approved Fiscal Year city budget, that Counselor Martinsen did a detailed analysis. It showed 100% of the 2-cent operating budget is now absorbed by police and fire budgets.
He advocated for $17 million in spending cuts in the police & fire operating budget. His idea wasn't approved.
I think you're thinking of an earlier analysis that he and John Eagleton did on the $2 Billion road package we approved last year.
Way too big of bite for the voters to approve.
Harvard is from 61st street north.
Lewis from 61st to 51st
Peoria.
41st between Lewis & Harvard.
I am going to say Peoria around 34th, just for the brickwork in the street. Who made the decision to do that? Could we not have taken a queue from how terrible it is to drive over Brady street downtown with a beverage in hand?
Quote from: Conan71 on August 10, 2009, 11:08:58 AM
How do you like that northbound lane of Harvard crossing 41st, Cannon? That's a rough one.
In the last 25 years that intersection has been redone at least 6 times to no solution. Public diswerks.
Quote from: FOTD on August 10, 2009, 12:20:56 PM
In the last 25 years that intersection has been redone at least 6 times to no solution. Public diswerks.
I'm curious how long Chas. Hardt would have been gone now if director of PW was an elected position instead of a "lifetime appointment"
Quote from: PepePeru on August 10, 2009, 12:07:42 PM
Harvard is from 61st street north.
Lewis from 61st to 51st
Peoria.
41st between Lewis & Harvard.
Amen. The only major street with no curbs and gutters (no storm water management funds for sewar?) and a seam as wide as Charles Hardt's buttocks.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 10, 2009, 12:22:30 PM
I'm curious how long Chas. Hardt would have been gone now if director of PW was an elected position instead of a "lifetime appointment"
No mayor could do their job without his companionship....and that's how he wants it.
Baltimore from 14th to 15th is really bad. It's like a game to see if you can drive down it without spilling your coffee.
Chas. Hardt and former Mayor Susan Savage reportedly worked very, very closely together.
It was Chas. that sold Susan on the idea of letting the streets totally fall apart by deferring routine maintenance funded from the city Operating Budget, so that the 3rd Penny Sales Tax money could then be used to totally re-do the aforesaid streets as a Capital Expenditure.
One little problem: By essentially abandoning routine maintenance, the condition of the streets declined much faster than the city's ability to tear-up and totally replace the streets, especially with the city's long-standing practice of favoring local road construction contractors like Sherwood and Beeco.
The city's road bidding practices also discouraged large, out-of-state road building companies from participating in the competitive bidding process by awarding road building contracts in relatively tiny penny packets of <$ 5 million each.
Hence, the problem we have today.
Thank you Susan. Thank you Charles.
Quote from: Friendly Bear on August 11, 2009, 08:22:05 AM
Chas. Hardt and former Mayor Susan Savage reportedly worked very, very closely together.
It was Chas. that sold Susan on the idea of letting the streets totally fall apart by deferring routine maintenance, so that the 3rd Penny Sales Tax money could then be used to totally re-do the aforesaid streets as a Capital Expenditure.
One little problem: By essentially abandoning maintenance, the condition of the streets declined much faster than the city's ability to tear-up and totally replace the streets.
Hence, the problem we have today.
Thank you Susan. Thank you Charles.
Support your crap or stop crapping.
Quote from: Townsend on August 11, 2009, 08:23:31 AM
Support your crap or stop crapping.
Thank you for your feedback on this topic.
>Could you be more specific?
Quote from: Townsend on August 11, 2009, 08:23:31 AM
Support your crap or stop crapping.
It's all about the cabal, Townsend.
Quote from: Friendly Bear on August 11, 2009, 09:11:23 AM
Thank you for your feedback on this topic.
>Could you be more specific?
You post your opinion or hearsay as fact without anything supporting it. Please try to rectify that.
Memorial from the airport going south.
12th between Denver and Cheyenne Eastbound exiting the BA. Looks like a military testing ground.
Quote from: dbacks fan on August 11, 2009, 09:45:08 AM
Memorial from the airport going south.
I would agree, especially the stretch in between Admiral and 11th. Just because I travel it the most (I live the closet to it of any major thoroughfare).
Quote from: Townsend on August 11, 2009, 09:51:35 AM
12th between Denver and Cheyenne Eastbound exiting the BA. Looks like a military testing ground.
SO TRUE.
The intersection of 41st & Elwood is very bumpy, glopped-together asphalt and the railroad crossing a few blocks to the west of that will jar kidney stones loose. The crossing over SW Blvd. by OSU Med and Westport sucks very badly too.
Is there some reason the RR companies are not required to maintain much better crossings? The ones in Sapulpa on Hwy 66 next to Liberty Glass (or whatever the bottle plant is called now) are made of concrete and IMO are the way all RR crossings should be.
Quote from: Townsend on August 11, 2009, 09:32:53 AM
You post your opinion or hearsay as fact without anything supporting it. Please try to rectify that.
I'll request that former Mayor Susan Savage provide a notarized affadavit on her very close association with Chas. Hardt, how street maintenance Operating Account funding was deferred to allow 3rd Penny Sales Tax Capital funds to be earmarked to replace street maintenance operating costs, how local road construction firms were intentionally favored, and how street bid packets were kept intentionally small to discourage large, out-of-state road constuction companies from bringing their Economies-of-Scale to Tulsa road projects.
When I receive the Affadavit, I'll get it posted ASAP.
P.S. All of the foregoing except the, ahem, very close relationship between Hardt and Savage, were discussed in the presentations by Martinson and Eagleton last year, during their
$2B Big Bad Bear Tulsa Road Proposal. Untimately, the Mayor and Council supported the medium priced
Momma Bear Package.The Baby Bear Road Package idea by Hewgley III was still-borne.
You don't remember?? It was only last year.
Suggest increasing your Aricept dosage, after consulting with your neurologist.....
Quote from: Friendly Bear on August 11, 2009, 10:56:48 AM
P.S. All of the foregoing except the, ahem, very close relationship between Hardt and Savage,
You DO realize you could be sued for comments like that if you can't substantiate it, right?
Quote from: Hoss on August 11, 2009, 09:52:10 AM
I would agree, especially the stretch in between Admiral and 11th. Just because I travel it the most (I live the closet to it of any major thoroughfare).
I lived for seven years in the neighborhood on N78th E Ave just south of Pine and traveled Memorial and 73rd Ave to get to my parents house behind the old Ma-Hu mansion. It's pretty sad that the first impression visitors get leaving the airport is how bad the roads are, especially the train crossing next to the entrance to the old McDonnell/Douglas plant. That one was guaranteed to rattle your teeth going across it.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 11, 2009, 11:03:01 AM
You DO realize you could be sued for comments like that if you can't substantiate it, right?
The Truth is usually an adequate defense.
However, considering we are in the Banana Republic of Tulsa, with our patented Tulsa version of Rent-to-Own District Judges, there is a higher risk.
Nonetheless, different rules apply to Public Figures.......don't they.
Quote from: dbacks fan on August 11, 2009, 11:11:26 AM
I lived for seven years in the neighborhood on N78th E Ave just south of Pine and traveled Memorial and 73rd Ave to get to my parents house behind the old Ma-Hu mansion. It's pretty sad that the first impression visitors get leaving the airport is how bad the roads are, especially the train crossing next to the entrance to the old McDonnell/Douglas plant. That one was guaranteed to rattle your teeth going across it.
Fortunately, most out-of-towners are somewhat directed to the highway 11 spur just out of the airport and not Memorial, though the highways aren't vastly better.
Quote from: dbacks fan on August 11, 2009, 11:11:26 AM
I lived for seven years in the neighborhood on N78th E Ave just south of Pine and traveled Memorial and 73rd Ave to get to my parents house behind the old Ma-Hu mansion. It's pretty sad that the first impression visitors get leaving the airport is how bad the roads are, especially the train crossing next to the entrance to the old McDonnell/Douglas plant. That one was guaranteed to rattle your teeth going across it.
At least the five or six blocks Downtown surrounding the Bank of Kaiser Arena have been fixed up, $50 million later.
Eventually, GETTING downtown will get rehabilitated when U.S. 75 and I-244 are re-surfaced/re-built.
Quote from: Friendly Bear on August 11, 2009, 11:13:43 AM
The Truth is usually an adequate defense.
However, considering we are in the Banana Republic of Tulsa, with our patented Tulsa version of Rent-to-Own District Judges, there is a higher risk.
Nonetheless, different rules apply to Public Figures.......don't they.
I don't know that Charles Hardt would be considered a public figure even though he's more visible than most Tulsans. He's an employee of the COT, not an elected official. Doesn't matter if it's a department head or the lowest schlub in a department, those people do have rights to deter people from spreading malicious rumors about things like marital infidelity. I believe even elected officials have rights like that, FB.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 11, 2009, 11:14:33 AM
Fortunately, most out-of-towners are somewhat directed to the highway 11 spur just out of the airport and not Memorial, though the highways aren't vastly better.
Granted most of them do go the Hwy 11 route to get to any of the other freeways to where they want to be. I lived for 34 years in Tulsa and the roads were always bad from the earlist I can remember.(And that includes when 169 end at 21st and the westbound BA had two railroad crossing on it before it ended just after Lewis) I seem to remember that the roads in OKC were somewhat better, but I could be mistaken.
Quote from: Friendly Bear on August 11, 2009, 10:56:48 AM
Suggest increasing your Aricept dosage, after consulting with your neurologist.....
Your knowledge of that particular medication answers many questions.
Please, some decorum would be great.
Quote from: Townsend on August 11, 2009, 11:23:57 AM
Your knowledge of that particular medication answers many questions.
Please, some decorum would be great.
I hardtfully endorse more decorum hereabouts.
You
first?
Quote from: Conan71 on August 11, 2009, 11:19:08 AMI don't know that Charles Hardt would be considered a public figure even though he's more visible than most Tulsans. He's an employee of the COT, not an elected official. Doesn't matter if it's a department head or the lowest schlub in a department, those people do have rights to deter people from spreading malicious rumors about things like marital infidelity. I believe even elected officials have rights like that, FB.
Bring him on.
I don't think he or the former Mayor
REALLY want to go there.......it would, nonetheless make a fascinating public policy discussion while giving their depositions, under oath....
I don't think the roads here are that bad. It seems like everywhere I go in Tulsa there is construction so I don't think that is the problem. Granted I don't drive in all parts of Tulsa but I drive the well travelled parts that most out of towners would see. I think Tulsa has more whiners than bad roads.
Quote from: OpenYourEyesTulsa on August 11, 2009, 12:38:32 PM
I don't think the roads here are that bad. It seems like everywhere I go in Tulsa there is construction so I don't think that is the problem. Granted I don't drive in all parts of Tulsa but I drive the well travelled parts that most out of towners would see. I think Tulsa has more whiners than bad roads.
You need to drive around more.
I looked through all the streets mentioned again and I have driven on most of them recently and I don't think they are bad. Maybe I have a better vehicle or something. The bigger priority to me is widening the main streets and highways.
Quote from: OpenYourEyesTulsa on August 11, 2009, 12:47:45 PM
I looked through all the streets mentioned again and I have driven on most of them recently and I don't think they are bad. Maybe I have a better vehicle or something. The bigger priority to me is widening the main streets and highways.
I too don't seem to have any problem with the roads; must be my vehicle. But, instead of widening the roads, I'd rather see an increase in mass transit options.
A+!!
FB....very good work.
Chas. Hardt deformed Tulsa and degraded the mayors' orffice by playing footsies. Weird fetishes were running the city back then.
Didn't Suzie have a run in with the wife of the head of Nordam too?
Quote from: TURobY on August 11, 2009, 01:34:07 PM
I too don't seem to have any problem with the roads; must be my vehicle. But, instead of widening the roads, I'd rather see an increase in mass transit options.
Take the BA heading West, Denver exit, take a right towards Cheyenne...go in a straight line and enjoy.
Quote from: Townsend on August 11, 2009, 02:36:47 PM
Take the BA heading West, Denver exit, take a right towards Cheyenne...go in a straight line and enjoy.
That's actually the path I take to work every day. It must be the car then...
Quote from: OpenYourEyesTulsa on August 11, 2009, 12:38:32 PM
I don't think the roads here are that bad. It seems like everywhere I go in Tulsa there is construction so I don't think that is the problem. Granted I don't drive in all parts of Tulsa but I drive the well travelled parts that most out of towners would see. I think Tulsa has more whiners than bad roads.
I agree. Maybe I would complain if I drove a motorcycle or rode a bicycle, but my car has a good set of shocks...
I drive on 169, 244, and the BA... all recently redone. I drive downtown...recently redone.I drive on 15th street and 3rd street, both recently redone. My neighborhood was redone the year before we moved in.
I know there are some bad roads, but most of my travels are on good roads. We also just passed $500 million in new taxes to fix the other roads.
Friendly Bear doesn't care what you think are the worst roads, he just started a thread to get people complaining...that is what he does. He also writes inappropriate innuendo and personally attacks people...
Stop responding to the creep.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 11, 2009, 03:08:34 PM
I agree. Maybe I would complain if I drove a motorcycle or rode a bicycle, but my car has a good set of shocks...
I drive on 169, 244, and the BA... all recently redone. I drive downtown...recently redone.I drive on 15th street and 3rd street, both recently redone. My neighborhood was redone the year before we moved in.
I know there are some bad roads, but most of my travels are on good roads. We also just passed $500 million in new taxes to fix the other roads.
Friendly Bear doesn't care what you think are the worst roads, he just started a thread to get people complaining...that is what he does. He also writes inappropriate innuendo and personally attacks people...
Stop responding to the creep.
My bad. You're right. The road I was impressed with is on the list to be repaired.
He is a creepy guy.
Quote from: FOTD on August 11, 2009, 02:12:05 PM
A+!!
FB....very good work.
Chas. Hardt deformed Tulsa and degraded the mayors' orffice by playing footsies. Weird fetishes were running the city back then.
Didn't Suzie have a run in with the wife of the head of Nordam too?
Run-in??
There's a local Urban Legend about a certain helicopter ride with a female Mayor named Susan and a Siegheil Family member that ended suddenly in a pillar of smoke?
Luckily, both the member and the Mayor were reportedly undamaged in the helicopter crash...... :P
Quote from: Townsend on August 11, 2009, 03:24:28 PM
My bad. You're right. The road I was impressed with is on the list to be repaired.
He is a creepy guy.
Boo!
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 11, 2009, 03:08:34 PM
I agree. Maybe I would complain if I drove a motorcycle or rode a bicycle, but my car has a good set of shocks...
I drive on 169, 244, and the BA... all recently redone. I drive downtown...recently redone.I drive on 15th street and 3rd street, both recently redone. My neighborhood was redone the year before we moved in.
I know there are some bad roads, but most of my travels are on good roads. We also just passed $500 million in new taxes to fix the other roads.
Friendly Bear doesn't care what you think are the worst roads, he just started a thread to get people complaining...that is what he does. He also writes inappropriate innuendo and personally attacks people...
Stop responding to the creep.
Does not.
Name ONE poster that the Bear has ever attacked BEFORE being personally attacked first.
Even one?
Feel free to take a Nitro Pill before responding, while mulling this trip down Memory Lane........
:-X
::)
With all the SUVs around here, I am surprised at the number of complaints about the road conditions. Bad roads are just practice for off-roading. ;D
I got to ride on some of the new concrete on Memorial between 111th and the Turnpike. I am not favorably impressed. It is not a smooth ride for a new surface.
Quote from: Red Arrow on August 12, 2009, 07:53:10 AM
I got to ride on some of the new concrete on Memorial between 111th and the Turnpike. I am not favorably impressed. It is not a smooth ride for a new surface.
Likewise, the recent resurfacing of I-244 from the U.S. 169 interchange towards Memorial Drive has left the road in sections uneven and rough for a newly re-surfaced road.....
Maybe the State is hiring paving companies that are amateurs.