What is the deal with the abandoned gas stations around town and why is it so hard to develope these properties? There is an old Texaco station on 81st and Sheridan that has been sitting vacant for at least three years now. Seems like a great location for a small business ie coffee shop or something. They are such eyesores, especially if they are'nt maintained.
81st and Sheridan? Where is that? North Dallas? :P
Quote from: Stone on July 30, 2009, 04:13:12 PM
What is the deal with the abandoned gas stations around town and why is it so hard to develope these properties? There is an old Texaco station on 81st and Sheridan that has been sitting vacant for at least three years now. Seems like a great location for a small business ie coffee shop or something. They are such eyesores, especially if they are'nt maintained.
Most likely, no one wants to pay for the removal of the undergrond tanks and piping for the pumps, even though the building is gone.
Quote from: TheArtist on July 30, 2009, 04:48:30 PM
81st and Sheridan? Where is that? North Dallas? :P
North East, you know, Richardson/Plano........ ;D
Quote from: TheArtist on July 30, 2009, 04:48:30 PM
81st and Sheridan? Where is that? North Dallas? :P
Nah, just north. I only get that far north a few times per month.
Quote from: Stone on July 30, 2009, 04:13:12 PM
What is the deal with the abandoned gas stations around town and why is it so hard to develope these properties? There is an old Texaco station on 81st and Sheridan that has been sitting vacant for at least three years now. Seems like a great location for a small business ie coffee shop or something. They are such eyesores, especially if they are'nt maintained.
Feel free to purchase and develop, but I'll bet there are tons of stipulations put on the buyer by seller.
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 30, 2009, 04:50:30 PM
Most likely, no one wants to pay for the removal of the undergrond tanks and piping for the pumps, even though the building is gone.
That's likely exactly it, as there are many EPA hoops to jump through to get those things dismantled. There's an old EZ Mart location on the NW corner of 41st/Garnett (north of the QT on the SW corner) where the building has been razed, but I don't think the tanks have been removed.
The old gas station South of 15th and Peoria...were those tanks removed before it was re-opened as the salon?
Do the tanks always have to be removed or just drained?
From what I know, The tanks have to be removed if construction is going to take place over them, but either way they have to be inspected, and the soil around them tested for contaminants. If found (very likely for an old station) then things get really expensive. Most developers don't want to touch the deal unless they know that the corner will yield significant development income.
Years ago on the northwest corner of Pine and North 75th E Ave. there was a gas station next to Jorgensen Steel (not refering to the QT that was on the east side of 75th) that sat closed for a number of years. After a wet spring, one of the underground tanks actuall floated up through the concrete drive and had to be removed because one end was about three feet above the concrete. It was one of the older steel tanks and had started to rust in the ground as well. You would think that it would be a requirement of the demolishion of the building to rmove the tanks.
I think if your a gas station and you go out of business, it should be required to remove your tanks, if for nothing else, environmental reasons. That being said some businesses have been built on top of old gas stations like enterprise car rental at 61st and Sheridan and the above mentioned 15th and peoria location. There are far too many that just sit boarded up and vacant though (61st and Lewis, 51st and Peoria, Harvard south of 81st, Kenosha and Lynn lane and Main and Kenosha both in BA) and that's a shame. There are probably alot more with many of the Shell stations shutting down.
I expect that if a gas station were making enough money to remove the tanks, it would still be a gas station.
A few states, such as Arizona, have begun small-scale program in which the state pays for the gas-tank removal and remedial cleanups.
The justification is that the property is just sitting there, doing nothing and possibly making the parcel even more toxic over time. Those states clean up the properties, making them much more viable for development or adaptive reuse.
It makes sense to me.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on July 31, 2009, 01:21:35 PM
A few states, such as Arizona, have begun small-scale program in which the state pays for the gas-tank removal and remedial cleanups.
The justification is that the property is just sitting there, doing nothing and possibly making the parcel even more toxic over time. Those states clean up the properties, making them much more viable for development or adaptive reuse.
It makes sense to me.
Better yet: rather than being a drain on the taxpayers, why not require a remediation deposit when the original permit is let for the project? If they don't have enough money to pay for the installation and ultimate removal of the tanks when they go into business, then don't let them open in the first place.
State still takes care of the remediation, to make sure it happens, but isn't out a nickel to do it.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 31, 2009, 02:21:25 PM
Better yet: rather than being a drain on the taxpayers, why not require a remediation deposit when the original permit is let for the project? If they don't have enough money to pay for the installation and ultimate removal of the tanks when they go into business, then don't let them open in the first place.
State still takes care of the remediation, to make sure it happens, but isn't out a nickel to do it.
Makes far too much sense, so it will never happen. Also I have this strange suspicion that politicians will find a way to borrow against or flat out spend that money. Call me silly.
Or charge a small tax on gas sales to etablish an account to pay for the clean up of abondoned tanks - much like the oil producers pay to clean up abondon oil wells. Of course, where the owner is known, the state should first go after them to pay for tank removal and remediation.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 31, 2009, 02:21:25 PM
Better yet: rather than being a drain on the taxpayers, why not require a remediation deposit when the original permit is let for the project? If they don't have enough money to pay for the installation and ultimate removal of the tanks when they go into business, then don't let them open in the first place.
Which is sort of what is happening now. When you add costs of remediation to the already-substantial expenses of rehabbing a long-abandoned property, that sucker's going to continue to sit -- as it has for decades.
That's not doing anybody any good.
I have some familiarity with the program in Arizona, and letting the property sit is unacceptable. Those underground storage tanks leak, and they're messing with groundwater and storm sewers. Those old gas stations aren't just an eyesore, they're a health hazard.
Most of the abandoned stations were owned by mom-and-pop operators who are long dead or long broke. A bunch of them were on Route 66, and their businesses died when Interstate 40 bypassed the town. Even a few chains went belly-up. The once-ubiquitous Whiting Bros. stations have been kaput for decades. I'm all for getting remediation money from the previous owners, but in many cases you can't get blood from a turnip.
I think Arizona's taking the long view and deciding that if these stations are rehabbed, you'll get a small business to move in there. With a small business operating in what was once a weed-infested mess, property values in the area will rise, which will in turn cause other entrepreneurs to take a second look at the area. Guess what happens as a result -- tax revenues will rise in an area that previously was stagnating or doing nothing.
And I didn't even mention the obvious benefit of safeguarding water supplies and keeping storm sewers from going kerblooey.
I think this is clearly a case where a bit of tax money improves the public good a great deal, sort of like giving public money to poor kids so they can attend college. The long-term social and financial benefits of such programs are immense. It's a no-brainer.
Quote from: Stone on July 31, 2009, 12:04:15 PM
There are probably alot more with many of the Shell stations shutting down.
Speaking of which - what is with all the Shell stations shutting down? Went to get gas the other day and three of them I normally hit were all closed. The one closest to me is still open (21st and Sheridan) but the owners are letting it get so rundown that only about 3-4 pumps still work and the prices are always on the high end so I normally avoid it.
Quote from: tulsabug on August 03, 2009, 12:08:38 AM
Speaking of which - what is with all the Shell stations shutting down? Went to get gas the other day and three of them I normally hit were all closed. The one closest to me is still open (21st and Sheridan) but the owners are letting it get so rundown that only about 3-4 pumps still work and the prices are always on the high end so I normally avoid it.
One of the owners of lots of stations filed for bankruptcy. Think they where based in AR.
how topical....we just transformed an old gas station on 66 into our new offices. 1347 east 11th street. Might have been an old FINA?
anyone know
Quote from: hoodlum on August 06, 2009, 08:57:36 PM
how topical....we just transformed an old gas station on 66 into our new offices. 1347 east 11th street. Might have been an old FINA?
anyone know
Is that the one in front of the old LooBoyles? I remember a Consumers around there and a Pemco in that area.
Quote from: hoodlum on August 06, 2009, 08:57:36 PM
how topical....we just transformed an old gas station on 66 into our new offices. 1347 east 11th street. Might have been an old FINA?
anyone know
This'n?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=1347%20east%2011th%20street%20tulsa (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=1347%20east%2011th%20street%20tulsa)
Ironically enough, Kansas City has one of their best BBQ joints called OKLAHOMA Joe's and it's an old GAS STATION. The place is actually pretty cool and the BBQ is damn good. Think outside of the box.
Quote from: Townsend on August 07, 2009, 09:02:23 AM
This'n?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=1347%20east%2011th%20street%20tulsa (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=1347%20east%2011th%20street%20tulsa)
I once rented a duplex at 10th and Quaker back in the 70's, so I'm sure I bought gas there. Maybe Bates knows, I think it was a PEMCO (Petroleum Marketers Company).
Quote from: T-TownMike on August 08, 2009, 06:19:35 PM
Ironically enough, Kansas City has one of their best BBQ joints called OKLAHOMA Joe's and it's an old GAS STATION. The place is actually pretty cool and the BBQ is damn good. Think outside of the box.
Van's Pig Stand in Norman did the same thing, so it can be done.
BBQ joint in a gas station isn't that unique a concept. Albert G's at 27th/Harvard was an old Skelly or Texaco station, Hickory House in Sapulpa is another old service station, I believe. Mercury Lounge at 18th & Boston was a good adaptive re-use (I'm sure some nearby residents may disagree) of a station. That's just what I can think of in the immediate area, no telling how many there are around the country.
Not abandoned but ... I may have missed this elsewhere. Does anyone know about the future of the old 'Walkers' Gas Station at 3136 E 11th St. The tanks were removed this spring/summer and new concrete poured. Owner also owns parking lot to the south!
They tore down the old drive thru car wash and are moving dirt at 81st and Sheridan. Don't know what they're building, but its better than what was there.