http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0709/640546.html (http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0709/640546.html) from Channel 8
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=10728760 (http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=10728760) from Channel 6.
Their reason for raising rates is that overall revenue is down and they have a budget shortfall of 21 Million. What a great idea! Overall, less traffic on turnpikes, so lets increase rates during these rough economic times! BRILLIANT!
Most of the comments from channel 6 are of course negative, but when are they not. What are your thoughts? Will these alter your driving habits at all? We mainly use the creek turnpike from US 75 to Memorial, which is going from 60 cents to 70 cents if you have a pikepass, and 65 cents to 75 cents if you do not.
Welcome to Oklahoma, where you get to pay to drive on a road that in nearly every state would be free. Oh well, I guess I can laugh at the fact that this is a regressive tax.
Turnpikes are almost as addictive as cigarettes. I don't smoke so I guess I'll have to keep using the turnpike. I use the Creek from Memorial to Peoria/Elm in Jenks. Just crossing the bridge over the Arkansas adds 30 cents of the 55 on the pikepass toll. It's close to 10 cents/mi. Seems like a lot. We must be paying for the turnpikes that are less traveled because they are too expensive. However, we all get used to the convenience even on a short trip.
Quote from: Red Arrow on July 15, 2009, 08:05:52 PM
Turnpikes are almost as addictive as cigarettes. I don't smoke so I guess I'll have to keep using the turnpike. I use the Creek from Memorial to Peoria/Elm in Jenks. Just crossing the bridge over the Arkansas adds 30 cents of the 55 on the pikepass toll. It's close to 10 cents/mi. Seems like a lot. We must be paying for the turnpikes that are less traveled because they are too expensive. However, we all get used to the convenience even on a short trip.
+1. My wife works in the QT corporate office on 129th. From our house its easy to just jump on the creek to 169, to the BA and exit 51st. I calculated the mileage and time vs that route and taking 75S to 44E to 51E and exiting 51st. It was at most 1 mile longer, and added just a few minutes. Our pikepass bill last yr was over 200 dollars, and this yr, after switching routes in May so far has been 65 dollars.
The wife takes the new Creek from East BA to 244 West to Sheridan instead of BA to 169 to 244 West.
The Creek is smoother and less traffic until she hits the Casino area and then it gets bad around 244 and 169 with the construction going on. 169 from the BA is getting better going North because most of that construction is done.
Just like Gasoline, if they can get it. We will pay it. 8 Dollars round trip to OKC is just crazy as bad as that length of highway is.
Quote from: guido911 on July 15, 2009, 08:01:22 PM
Oh well, I guess I can laugh at the fact that this is a regressive tax.
How is it regressive? Are poor people required to pay more or do rich people get an exemption? It's a simple use tax. If you use the road more you pay more. It discriminates against no income.
I don't mind toll roads so long as revenue from toll roads pays for my use of the road. I'm free to decide if it is worth my money to utilize the road or not. When ODOT gets funding I have no choice in the matter.
However, as you probably know, we have cross funding in Oklahoma. Which complicates things. My trip to Joplin helps pay for the Indian Nations Turnpike, which I never use. My trip from Tulsa to Oklahoma City (which, by the way, is often required since all State offices are there) and subsequent return trip help pay for the Creek Turnpike and Oklahoma Cities turnpike so suburban Tulsans and Oklahoma Citians can avoid the traffic that their urban sprawl has created.
So it's a mixed bag. As for raising the rates - it sucks. But it will not effect my driving habits.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on July 16, 2009, 09:23:52 AM
How is it regressive? Are poor people required to pay more or do rich people get an exemption?
Come one CF, you have got to be kidding. According to Obama, the only "rich" people in this country are those making in excess of $250K. This is only the top, what, 5% in this country. That means 95% are poor to middle class. They will be paying the overwhelming majority of the increase in toll tax. And that's the very definition of a regressive tax.
Quote from: TUalum0982 on July 15, 2009, 07:52:47 PM
Their reason for raising rates is that overall revenue is down and they have a budget shortfall of 21 Million. What a great idea! Overall, less traffic on turnpikes, so lets increase rates during these rough economic times! BRILLIANT!
Trying to track down the source, but apparently part of the tolls go to cover the paid vacations of OHP troopers on administrative leave, as well as an OHP fund to pay for them patrolling the turnpikes.
Like all use fees and consumption taxes, tolls are not regressive, but they do have a disproportionate impact on lower income earning hoseholds.
I agree with CF, the biggest problem with the Okla. turnpike system is the cross fuding. The busy turnpikes subsidize the low volume roads that do not break even. I was on the Cimarron yesterday and drove miles between Stillwater and I35 without seeing another car - and the Cimarron is by no means the worst.
I have no problem with the increase or the cross funding. It's nice to be able to drive 75 mph on little traveled tollways in multiple directions out of Tulsa. Beats driving on some two-lane road with no shoulders, slow traffic and all types of other hazards.
I like the fact that those who live way out in the 'burbs pay more than me. That's as it should be. Those who drive more should pay more. I never have the need to drive on turnpikes unless I'm headed on a trip out of town.
I do wish they'd jack up the rates on non-PikePass users. Follow Illinois' lead and double them for non-PikePass users while leaving them the same for PikePass users.
It doesn't seem like my nickel savings per trip (or whatever miniscule amount) really reflects the savings OTA is realizing by having people use PikePass.
Quote from: TUalum0982 on July 15, 2009, 08:11:43 PM
+1. My wife works in the QT corporate office on 129th. From our house its easy to just jump on the creek to 169, to the BA and exit 51st. I calculated the mileage and time vs that route and taking 75S to 44E to 51E and exiting 51st. It was at most 1 mile longer, and added just a few minutes. Our pikepass bill last yr was over 200 dollars, and this yr, after switching routes in May so far has been 65 dollars.
Sounds like you're part of the problem! :D
(according to the turnpike authority)
Say, isn't our Mayorial candidate Dewey Bartlett, Jr. an OTA Board member?
Quote from: DTowner on July 16, 2009, 11:35:24 AM
Like all use fees and consumption taxes, tolls are not regressive, but they do have a disproportionate impact on lower income earning hoseholds.
"regressive tax"
A tax that takes a higher percentage of low incomes than high ones. Sales taxes, especially on food, clothing, medicine, and other basic necessities are widely cited as examples of regressive taxes.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regressive+tax?qsrc=2446
This is a use tax I do agree with. I took toll roads, interstates, and two lane highways on a business trip yesterday. I've got to say I feel safest from collsions on the toll roads, though some of those two lane highways way out in western Ok. are downright desolate and wide-open.
Quote from: Wilbur on July 16, 2009, 12:54:38 PM
Sounds like you're part of the problem! :D
(according to the turnpike authority)
Yes I am! I enjoy getting across town in about 10-12 minutes but not when its over 200 dollars a year. To put that in perspective, I could order MLB extra innings or damn near pay for NFL Sunday Ticket on Directv. None the less, until I get the 10% that was taken from me a few months ago due to a mandatory paycut, we have had to cut back on non essential things. This being one of them.
And to the person who said the OTA pays for the troopers that patrol it, you are exactly right. Why do you think they mainly drive new Dodge Chargers fitted with the latest and greatest equipment! A buddy of mine from college is a trooper, the day he went to patrolling the turnpikes, he got a new dodge charger with the hemi with all the "goodies". I asked him about it, and he said the turnpike authority pays their wages, equipment, manpower, etc etc.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 16, 2009, 01:50:23 PM
I've got to say I feel safest from collsions on the toll roads
The second most deadly traffic accident in Oklahoma took place on a toll road, so nothings a given.
Quote from: patric on July 16, 2009, 05:49:02 PM
The second most deadly traffic accident in Oklahoma took place on a toll road, so nothings a given.
That's true, and I'm sure you've not forgotten the U-turn fatal on the WRT a couple years back due to a bonehead move by an OHP. Of course there's always the chance a jet engine might fall through my roof and kill me too. Fewer crossroads and controlled entrance/exits makes me feel safer on highways though.
Quote from: Conan71 on July 16, 2009, 08:07:58 PM
That's true, and I'm sure you've not forgotten the U-turn fatal on the WRT a couple years back due to a bonehead move by an OHP.
There was a string of them around that time, if I recall.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=5058.0
That one was so egregious because OHP blamed the truck for not stopping in time.
QuoteAfter the last rate hike, in 2001, the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority says total toll road traffic dropped by 4%. The authority also says the average unhappy driver will stay off of turnpikes for one year after toll increases. But, the average trucker may steer clear of them for five years.
It's a drop in truck tolls that's the reason for the hike!
Now that's some leadership :-[
The announced toll increases really don't affect me personally, as I rarely drive the toll routes. I have never even been on the Creek Turnpike or any south Tulsa toll road, as a driver or a passenger. If I drive west towards OKC, I always take old 66, a much more interesting drive. The only Oklahoma toll road I have driven in the last 20 years is the Will Rogers, going to St. Louis and back.
Oklahoma's toll roads will NEVER be free roads. The OTA will always be refinancing the debt and extending out the bond terms for years and years to keep tolls in place to pay for maintenance indefinately. The recent toll increase in reaction to falling demand is contrary to basic principles of price, supply and demand, and may very well end up costing, rather that raising money, at least in the short term.
Quote from: Steve on July 17, 2009, 11:44:31 AM
The recent toll increase in reaction to falling demand is contrary to basic principles of price, supply and demand, and may very well end up costing, rather that raising money, at least in the short term.
Same thing with liquor and cigarette taxes, at least near the borders with other states with lower taxes.
I once dug into the budget of OTA and gas tax data and figured out that for an additional six cents of gas taxes OTA could be done away with and the turnpikes made free.
Did you know that OHP is a huge line item in the OTA budget? OTA pays millions a year to OHP for patrolling the 'pikes.