Just filling in for Guido in his absence.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world
"And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. And so there's got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples."
Obama said in Turkey that Americans "do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation". John McCain was criticised in 2007 for saying the US was "a Christian nation", later amending this to "a Judeo-Christian valued nation".
Of course, the concept of separation of church and state, which derived from the First Amendment to the Constitution, means that the US is not officially a Christian nation or a nation of any other particular religion. Which means, I suppose, that the US is as much a Muslim nation as a Christian one.
It's a bold - some might say audacious - turnaround by the president.
It's also a classically Obamaesque move.
During the 2008 campaign, he skillfully made himself, through his life story, the personification of change.
Now, implicitly contrasting himself with the born-again, evangelical Bush who pursued a post-9/11 "crusade" against terrorism, Obama is presenting himself to the Islamic world as the personification of a new, tolerant - and, yes, partly Muslim - America.
UPDATE: The excellent Don Surber crunches the numbers and points out that Obama's claim is highly dubious. According to Surber, the US has an estimated three to eight million Muslims, less than one per cent of the world's total and less than at least 23 other countries.
The average claim for the US Muslim population is about six million. The precise figure is difficult to get because it's not included in US census data and many put the figure at much, much less.
But even if we assume there are six million Muslims in the US, that makes it only the 34th biggest Muslim country in the world - behind Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, China, Ethiopia, Algeria, Morocco, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Tanzania, Syria, Malaysia, Niger, Senegal, Ghana, Tunisia, Somalia, Guinea, Kenya, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Burkina Faso and Tajikistan."
Some estimates puts the total number of Muslims in the U.S. at 1.8mm which would push it even further down the list.
If it helps stop people from claiming this is a Christian nation then huzzah Obama.
The problem with this claim - besides its blatant stupidity - is that declaring the US an Islamic nation may lead to non-Muslims into dhimmihood. "Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith) Once a land has been occupied by the Ummah, that land is forever Muslim. Besides declaring himself an infidel by renouncing Allah, O'bama is really playing with fire by allowing the camel to get its nose under the tent!
He never said we were a Muslim nation.
Change is coming to the world!
Blessed are the peacemakers.
(from cnn.com)
Finally, in the spirit of his event, President Obama concluded his remarkable Cairo address by highlighting the individual mandates for peace in each of the major Abrahamic religions.
He said that, "The Holy Quran tells us, 'O mankind! We have ... made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another.' ... The Talmud tells us: 'The whole of the Torah is for the purpose of promoting peace. ...'"
"The Holy Bible tells us, 'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.' ... The people of the world can live together in peace. We know that is God's vision. Now, that must be our work here on Earth."
Amen, Mr. President.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world
"It is important to note that "if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world".
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 04, 2009, 01:07:31 PM
The problem with this claim - besides its blatant stupidity - is that declaring the US an Islamic nation may lead to non-Muslims into dhimmihood.
Boy, that's a big leap in (non)logic.
The point is, the United States of America has never had a state-sponsored religion. Sure, the country is dominated by Christian belief (despite what you hear from a good deal of right-wing whiners). But the nation is still diverse enough in race, creed and even nonbelievers that true strength of America is not its religion, but the ability of others from diverse backgrounds to assimilate and excel.
I'm reminded of this every time I travel Route 66 and encounter Asian-Americans, American Indians, Lebanese-Americans and eighth- and ninth-generation Hispanic-Americans. They're all as different as can be, but ultimately are loyal to the country they now call home.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 04, 2009, 01:07:31 PM
The problem with this claim - besides its blatant stupidity - is that declaring the US an Islamic nation may lead to non-Muslims into dhimmihood. "Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith) Once a land has been occupied by the Ummah, that land is forever Muslim. Besides declaring himself an infidel by renouncing Allah, O'bama is really playing with fire by allowing the camel to get its nose under the tent!
Idiot
Quote from: rwarn17588 on June 04, 2009, 01:57:50 PM
Boy, that's a big leap in (non)logic.
The point is, the United States of America has never had a state-sponsored religion. Sure, the country is dominated by Christian belief (despite what you hear from a good deal of right-wing whiners). But the nation is still diverse enough in race, creed and even nonbelievers that true strength of America is not its religion, but the ability of others from diverse backgrounds to assimilate and excel.
I'm reminded of this every time I travel Route 66 and encounter Asian-Americans, American Indians, Lebanese-Americans and eighth- and ninth-generation Hispanic-Americans. They're all as different as can be, but ultimately are loyal to the country they now call home.
"Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith) How many other religions lay claim to such a commandment?
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 04, 2009, 02:15:15 PM
"Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith) How many other religions lay claim to such a commandment?
Who cares? I don't believe this sort of religious nonsense any more than I believe half the crap in Leviticus or Revelations.
The best defense against fundamentalism is to bust it wide open with free thought, science and logic.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 04, 2009, 02:15:15 PM
"Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith) How many other religions lay claim to such a commandment?
I don't think anybody here knows exactly how much land in hell is worth.
QuoteWe [Americans] do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation . . . .
The point was a bit dubious, but I don't get the outrage.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on June 04, 2009, 02:19:06 PM
Who cares? I don't believe this sort of religious nonsense any more than I believe half the crap in Leviticus or Revelations.
The best defense against fundamentalism is to bust it wide open with free thought, science and logic.
Wait, you still believe half of leviticus?
Quote from: rwarn17588 on June 04, 2009, 02:19:06 PM
Who cares? I don't believe this sort of religious nonsense any more than I believe half the crap in Leviticus or Revelations.
The best defense against fundamentalism is to bust it wide open with free thought, science and logic.
I would hope that you know what you and I believe does not matter one bit to Crusaders or Jihadists or whomever is on the warpath.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on June 04, 2009, 02:29:45 PM
The point was a bit dubious, but I don't get the outrage.
The problem with this claim - besides its blatant stupidity - is that declaring the US an Islamic nation may lead to non-Muslims into dhimmihood. "Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith) Once a land has been occupied by the Ummah, that land is forever Muslim. Besides declaring himself an infidel by renouncing Allah, O'bama is really playing with fire by allowing the camel to get its nose under the tent!
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 04, 2009, 02:48:33 PM
The problem with this claim - besides its blatant stupidity - is that declaring the US an Islamic nation may lead to non-Muslims into dhimmihood. "Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith) Once a land has been occupied by the Ummah, that land is forever Muslim. Besides declaring himself an infidel by renouncing Allah, O'bama is really playing with fire by allowing the camel to get its nose under the tent!
Do I hear an echo in here?
Quote from: cannon_fodder on June 04, 2009, 02:29:45 PM
The point was a bit dubious, but I don't get the outrage.
It's poutrage. McCain lost, therefore everything about the Obama administration is evil.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 04, 2009, 01:55:26 PM
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world
"It is important to note that "if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world".
Wow. Proof positive...that you know how to cherry-pick. In that very article you can read apparently contradictory statements; you cherry-picked ONE and ignored the other...and tried to foist garbage upon us. Thanks for nothing.
[GASP] It just occurred to me that reading retention may be a problem for you. Here's a test:
QuotePeanuts are crunchy. Peanuts are soft.
Now, think back; think very hard. Did the previous sentences claim, at any point, that peanuts were
crunchy? If a) you can't remember, b) aren't able to figure it out, or c) are pretty sure that peanuts are soft, then you may want to seek professional help.
Quote from: Chicken Little on June 04, 2009, 04:37:26 PM
Wow. Proof positive...that you know how to cherry-pick. In that very article you can read apparently contradictory statements; you ONE and ignored the other...and tried to foist an irrational claim upon us. Thanks for nothing.
[GASP] It just occurred to me that reading retention may be a problem for you. Here's a test:
Now, think back; think very hard. Did the previous sentences claim, at any point, that peanuts were crunchy? If a) you can't remember, b) aren't able to figure it out, or c) are pretty sure that peanuts are soft, then you may want to seek professional help.
He called us a Muslim nation. What is hard about that? Say he misstated his intented meaning or spoke awkwardly, but it is pretty stupid to say he did not say it at all. Are you saying he did not say that? What an ignorant thing to suggest! Get ye back to talk of penny sales taxes! You do know I did not start this thread, right?
Indonesia (213 million)
Pakistan (156 million)
Bangladesh (127 million)
At 2.3 million (about 0.8% of the world Muslem population) I would say that the US in not one of the larger Muslim nations.
I guess it depends on what your definition of "Large" is. . . or "is" is. . . or something.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 04, 2009, 04:50:25 PM
He called us a Muslim nation. What is hard about that? Say he misstated his intented meaning or spoke awkwardly, but it is pretty stupid to say he did not say it at all. Are you saying he did not say that? What an ignorant thing to suggest! Get ye back to talk of penny sales taxes!
Why don't you find a quote that shows he said that. You are paraphrasing inaccurately at best.
This guy (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world) says he said 'if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world".
Here this statement is search-engined: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=if+you+actually+took+the+number+of+Muslim+Americans%2C+we%27d+be+one+of+the+largest+Muslim+countries+in+the+world%22.&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
I mean really you guys are foam flecked madmen today, what is up?
CL called it. Know Nothing's reading skills are lacking.
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2009, 05:22:31 PM
CL called it. Know Nothing's reading skills are lacking.
I am not alone. Click that search-engine link above. Good luck trying to goad me but it will not work. Dhimmi.
OK, I can do it too Re-Re.
The United States is the fourth largest country.
Russia, Canada, and China are the only larger countries. If they were Muslim countries they'd win but we'd be one of the largest muslim countries.
You're still an idiot and he never said the United States is a Muslim Country.
Quote from: Townsend on June 04, 2009, 05:43:06 PM
OK, I can do it too Re-Re.
The United States is the fourth largest country.
Russia, Canada, and China are the only larger countries. If they were Muslim countries they'd win but we'd be one of the largest muslim countries.
You're still an idiot and he never said the United States is a Muslim Country.
I will give you he said 'IF' but what you think he said and what I think he said is immaterial. This is playing with fire. Man you guys are ignorant! And who is the idiot but he who completely and absolutely made up the 'fact' to begin with? He says all kinds of crazy things that are contradictory sooooo.
And he was not referring to land size but said 'population.' Dhimmi.
There is this whole realm of the English language that you just don't grasp.
"if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world".
The key word is we'd = we would
would: Indicating an action or state that is conditional on another.
we're
Are: to take place; happen; occur
So by replacing would be with we are you totally change the context of the sentence. Which is what you ARE trying to do.
Quote from: Trogdor on June 04, 2009, 05:58:17 PM
There is this whole realm of the English language that you just don't grasp.
"if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world".
The key word is we'd = we would
would: Indicating an action or state that is conditional on another.
we're
Are: to take place; happen; occur
So by replacing would be with we are you totally change the context of the sentence. Which is what you ARE trying to do.
He probably thinks we're misunderestimating what he's trying to do....
;D
Look, it is an ambiguous statement on an issue which does not do well with fuzziness. Parse it like this: 'we would be' means that we are a Muslim nation, but just have not quantified how many Muslims live here. Why not that?
Because are and would aren't the same word.
Obviously he didn't mean we are a Muslim nation... what he meant to say in his signature clumsy way is that we have more Muslims than a lot of Muslim countries. Of course, we still wouldn't be anywhere near "one of the largest Muslim" populations, but what can you do. This is just the kind of thing we are going to have to learn to expect when Obama speaks sans teleprompter. Better get used to it...
Quote from: jiminy on June 04, 2009, 07:15:45 PM
Obviously he didn't mean we are a Muslim nation... what he meant to say in his signature clumsy way is that we have more Muslims than a lot of Muslim countries. Of course, we still wouldn't be anywhere near "one of the largest Muslim" populations, but what can you do. This is just the kind of thing we are going to have to learn to expect when Obama speaks sans teleprompter. Better get used to it...
Think I'd take Obama sans prompter over Dubya being coached with a wire down the back of his coat any day of the week, and Dubya still lookin' lost! harhar!
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 04, 2009, 04:50:25 PM
He called us a Muslim nation. What is hard about that? Say he misstated his intented meaning or spoke awkwardly, but it is pretty stupid to say he did not say it at all. Are you saying he did not say that? What an ignorant thing to suggest! Get ye back to talk of penny sales taxes! You do know I did not start this thread, right?
And you surmise that BHO is a muslin, terrier-cavortin', Egyptan, jurrish, stem-stell, (http://vodpod.com/watch/1090741-snl-crazy-mccain-rally-lady) USA giver-awayer based on what? Contradictory evidence? From the same story?
Don't get me wrong, we love to watch scaredy-cats go full-foam apoplectic over something like this; that's high comedy. But you have to admit that your debate skills need honing.
Quote from: Hoss on June 04, 2009, 08:38:15 PM
Think I'd take Obama sans prompter over Dubya being coached with a wire down the back of his coat any day of the week, and Dubya still lookin' lost! harhar!
I dunno... when it comes to gaffes and mis-speaks I'd put Obama's 5-month-old body of work up against anybody's, including Bush.
Quote from: jiminy on June 04, 2009, 09:36:52 PM
I dunno... when it comes to gaffes and mis-speaks I'd put Obama's 5-month-old body of work up against anybody's, including Bush.
But when your 'gaffes and mis-speaks' sound just like that -- gaffes and mis-speaks, as opposed to sounding like you have the education level of a cardboard box (Dubya)....I'd take the '5 month old body of work', thank you.
Keep tryin'.
Quote from: jiminy on June 04, 2009, 07:15:45 PM
Obviously he didn't mean we are a Muslim nation... what he meant to say in his signature clumsy way is that we have more Muslims than a lot of Muslim countries. Of course, we still wouldn't be anywhere near "one of the largest Muslim" populations, but what can you do. This is just the kind of thing we are going to have to learn to expect when Obama speaks sans teleprompter. Better get used to it...
Umm, given that there are over 200 countries in the world, I'd say being in the 30s is one of the largest, but what do I know? I guess you gotta be in the top 5 to count.
We WILL be one of the largest Muslim nations.
Know Nothing: The silliness of all this isn't the grammatical construction of the sentence, but what you think it means. You think it means he's offered one of the earth's most diverse and unorganized populations -- muslims from Indonesia, China, Malaysia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, up through the countries of Europe, and the millions who live in the US -- to overrun us like hoardes of cockroaches. Or maybe like Saracens from the middle ages, all on horseback, riding through town wielding scimitars and beheading all of our good Christian women and children. You seem to think he's offered them a new homeland or something. And that's where the sheer idiocy of this thread really lies. You're lapsing back into World Conspiracy territory again which is somewhere I know you're comfortable going, but when you look logically at what you're insinuating, makes zero sense.
QuoteWe [Americans] do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation . . . .
Again, he specifically said we do not consider ourselves a Muslim nation. People are just looking for things to be outraged about. If he was in Rome he would say the USA has more Christians than any other nation. If speaking to Jews he would probably say that the USA has more Jews than any nation but Israel. In Armenia he'd point out we have more Armenian THAN Armenia . . .
HE was merely pandering to his audience. Which is his job by and large. IT wasn't a bold statement of policy. A giant black stone to Allah isn't going to be placed on the National Mall. I don't get the outrage.
But for the record, we are the 53rd largest "Muslim Nation" on Earth per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country#). Behind such powerhouse Muslim Nations as Russia, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, and Germany. The claim was a little off . . .
Again, he specifically said we are one of the largest Muslim countries, just have not endeavored to do a proper head count.
Again, he didn't.
I didn't intend to hang Know Nothing out to dry, but it's been funny to watch the apologists parse words. Specifically President Obama implies that we are one of he larger Muslim Countries in the world, that much is quoted. How well did it go over with a lot of you when Bush would imply or flat state that we were a Christian Country or Judeo-Christian country? If we are 53rd on the list or whatever, that puts us in the upper 1/3, not in the top ten, I guess it depends on at what your cut off point is for largest. As for percent of total population, it's very small.
Here's the rub with me:
During the campaign, President Obama's Muslim roots were down-played. People were admonished by John McCain not to pull the Muslim card. Calling him Barack HUSSEIN Obama prior to the election was off-limits and not PC. Now his Muslim upbringing which was insignificant (and off-limits) before is suddenly significant, and he's suddenly proud of his middle name. I can specifically recall a few members of this forum getting testy when President Obama's middle name was invoked during the campaign.
Tim's not making up what was said. It's in black and white. Now invasions of locusts, drought, famine, etc. I don't think this is a cataclysm of Biblical proportions, but there's a whole lot contradictions going on here. I simply found it ironic that
I'm all for better world relations and peace, most definitely. If it takes a little stretching of the truth to provide better national security, fine. I hope Muslim leaders around the world believe our President carries some empathy and sincerity having Muslim roots, but I also sense this pandering by a "former" Muslim could be looked upon with a very cynical eye.
The middle name was always brought up to make him sound like he's "one of them"..."THEEEEEEEM".
It shouldn't matter.
No country's government should ever have a decision made due to a religion.
Your religion is not mine so don't use it to make decisions effecting my life.
So...anything having to do with any religion should be moot when it comes to governing. It should never have to come up.
Quote from: Townsend on June 05, 2009, 10:21:30 AM
The middle name was always brought up to make him sound like he's "one of them"..."THEEEEEEEM".
It shouldn't matter.
No country's government should ever have a decision made due to a religion.
Your religion is not mine so don't use it to make decisions effecting my life.
So...anything having to do with any religion should be moot when it comes to governing. It should never have to come up.
Dhimmi! This has nothing NOTHING to do with what you and I or Conan or any of the rest of us believe, you just do not get it. Gosh this is frustrating! I get the O was trying to give a nuanced 'welcome' and 'salaam' to Muslims, but what are they understanding? They do not have the post-Enlightenment, bourgeousie, pedestrian understanding of these terms and ideas that the parlors in Chicago, or partisan debating societies in DC, employ to decipher attorney-speak. Try Clinton's 'definition of is' on some 7th-century thinking tribesman-cum-millionaire and watch them laugh! Try translating 'Muslim country' in any dozens of dialects and see what you come up with. This is not a joke or open to vague interpretations. I hope the O is able to speak to the masses of Muslims, but speaking in factually erroneous riddles is not the way.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 11:19:42 AMThey do not have the post-Enlightenment, bourgeousie, pedestrian understanding of these terms and ideas that the parlors in Chicago, or partisan debating societies in DC, employ to decipher attorney-speak. Try Clinton's 'definition of is' on some 7th-century thinking tribesman-cum-millionaire and watch them laugh! Try translating 'Muslim country' in any dozens of dialects and see what you come up with. This is not a joke or open to vague interpretations. I hope the O is able to speak to the masses of Muslims, but speaking in factually erroneous riddles is not the way.
Oh, give me a break. What do you know about what a Muslim "understands"? Maybe you should be paying attention to another BHO quote (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/04/obama-egypt-speech-video_n_211216.html); ponder what "crude stereotype" means, as it applies to both Muslims and you.
QuoteSo I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed. That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn't. And I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear.
But that same principle must apply to Muslim perceptions of America. Just as Muslims do not fit a crude stereotype, America is not the crude stereotype of a self-interested empire. The United States has been one of the greatest sources of progress that the world has ever known. We were born out of revolution against an empire. We were founded upon the ideal that all are created equal, and we have shed blood and struggled for centuries to give meaning to those words - within our borders, and around the world. We are shaped by every culture, drawn from every end of the Earth, and dedicated to a simple concept: E pluribus unum: "Out of many, one."
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 11:19:42 AM
Dhimmi! This has nothing NOTHING to do with what you and I or Conan or any of the rest of us believe, you just do not get it. Gosh this is frustrating! I get the O was trying to give a nuanced 'welcome' and 'salaam' to Muslims, but what are they understanding? They do not have the post-Enlightenment, bourgeousie, pedestrian understanding of these terms and ideas that the parlors in Chicago, or partisan debating societies in DC, employ to decipher attorney-speak. Try Clinton's 'definition of is' on some 7th-century thinking tribesman-cum-millionaire and watch them laugh! Try translating 'Muslim country' in any dozens of dialects and see what you come up with. This is not a joke or open to vague interpretations. I hope the O is able to speak to the masses of Muslims, but speaking in factually erroneous riddles is not the way.
You are insane.
Quote from: Chicken Little on June 05, 2009, 11:37:01 AM
Oh, give me a break. What do you know about what a Muslim "understands"? Maybe you should be paying attention to another BHO quote (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/04/obama-egypt-speech-video_n_211216.html); ponder what "crude stereotype" means, as it applies to both Muslims and you.
I have done a fair amount of reading on the subject, and you did not answer any of my points. I have advocated for the re-establishment of the Caliphate, and for dual citizenship for Iraqis with the US. I have defended the broadcasting of Azan in US cities, and would love to visit Meccah. All you infidels do is freak out whenever you are challenged.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 11:50:38 AM
I have done a fair amount of reading on the subject, and you did not answer any of my points. I have advocated for the re-establishment of the Caliphate, and for dual citizenship for Iraqis with the US. I have defended the broadcasting of Azan in US cities, and would love to visit Meccah. All you infidels do is freak out whenever you are challenged.
(http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:KMRD3isBJchk0M:http://www.annotatedmst.com/episodes/superdragon/Cocoa_Puffs_shirt_link.jpg)
(http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:QUEGDnE4roiZ_M:http://www.briloon.org/img/bookcover.jpg)
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 12:30:27 PM
Ah yes, the last refuge for the vanquished: 'yer a poop head'! Nicely done! Sorry you feel that way.
(http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:R2LSo9nXchc_AM:http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/7/2/2/5/1/ar11857523315227.jpg)
Quote from: cannon_fodder on June 05, 2009, 08:28:17 AM
But for the record, we are the 53rd largest "Muslim Nation" on Earth per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country#). Behind such powerhouse Muslim Nations as Russia, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, and Germany. The claim was a little off . . .
Given the fast and furious edits and reverts on that page over the last few days, I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it, and I'm crazy enough to often trust Wikipedia on non-controversial issues.
Little Chicken and Conan are the last hold outs of believing POTUS OBAMA is a bad person as are all Muslims.
"President Obama tours a German concentration camp that his great-uncle helped liberate. Obama was joined by German Chancellor Angela Merkel; Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Elie Weisel, perhaps the camp's most famous prisoner. "I will not forget what I've seen here today," Obama said after touring the camp. "These sites have not lost their horror with the passage of time."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/05/obama.germany/
We are not a Muslim nor a Jewish nor a Christian Nation....We are a united nation.
Change has come to America. We are a better country since the new attitude in our Executive branch. Jimmy Carter was a peace maker and look how he's been trashed over the years. POTUS OBAMA's reputation will be stellar after 8 years in office. You can feel it. Soon, we will see POTUS OBAMA bring out what's the best in America.
Never Again....
Never again.
Quote from: FOTD on June 05, 2009, 01:21:12 PM
Little Chicken and Conan are the last hold outs of believing POTUS OBAMA is a bad person as are all Muslims.
"President Obama tours a German concentration camp that his great-uncle helped liberate. Obama was joined by German Chancellor Angela Merkel; Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Elie Weisel, perhaps the camp's most famous prisoner. "I will not forget what I've seen here today," Obama said after touring the camp. "These sites have not lost their horror with the passage of time."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/05/obama.germany/
We are not a Muslim nor a Jewish nor a Christian Nation....We are a united nation.
Change has come to America. We are a better country since the new attitude in our Executive branch. Jimmy Carter was a peace maker and look how he's been trashed over the years. POTUS OBAMA's reputation will be stellar after 8 years in office. You can feel it. Soon, we will see POTUS OBAMA bring out what's the best in America.
Never Again....
Never again.
The "great uncle" story is noteworthy and gives the press their feel good piece of the day.
Perhaps more important and impressive to me was his rebuke of Ahmadinejad. Surprised you neglected to mention that in light of the post you chose to add this to. I was actually getting ready to post an "attaboy" for him on that. I don't have a problem giving this administration props when they make good moves.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 01:30:42 PM
Inshallah!
(http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:SbWjoC3XS2qNqM:http://goodbadandugly2.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/crazy2.jpg)
Quote from: FOTD on June 05, 2009, 01:21:12 PM
Little Chicken and Conan are the last hold outs of believing POTUS OBAMA is a bad person as are all Muslims.
What the hell are you talking about, goofball? I've been saying the exact opposite. Obama is great and Muslims should not be subjected to stereotypes. Duh. Stop crapping up threads and read.
Quote from: Chicken Little on June 05, 2009, 01:51:12 PM
What the hell are you talking about, goofball? I've been saying the exact opposite. Obama is great and Muslims should not be subjected to stereotypes. Duh. Stop crapping up threads and read.
Don't take it personally Little, but you've contributed zip to this thread.
Quote from: FOTD on June 05, 2009, 03:16:34 PM
Don't take it personally Little, but you've contributed zip to this thread.
I'm thinking you've either misinterpreted or misidentified me if you can conclude that I don't like Obama or Muslims. You are thinking of OTHER people, not me.
Obama was raised as a muslim, by a muslim father, went to muslim school as a child, has a muslim name, and now reaches out to muslims and Iran (that wants to blow Israel off the planet).
If it looks like duck, quacks like a duck...
Anybody else getting PM's from Timmy wanting to fight you?
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 03:46:58 PM
Fight? How about a debate? How about trying to grow up? Now if you think that was an invitation to a fight . . .
Well now Timmy, what would you call it?
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 03:49:27 PM
An ambiguous remark. Funny how that works.
Seemed pretty clear. Try to relax.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 04:00:08 PM
Seemed 'pretty clear' the O put his foot in his mouth, sucked on it, chewed a little, and you all are telling him he is tasting filet mignon.
OK
Sung to the toon of "Spam" by Monty Python's Flying Circus:
Meds meds meds meds
Here: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/05/obama-muslim-speech-inhofe/
Inhofe Rips Obama As 'Un-American,' Suggests He's On The Side Of Terrorists
and many at TNF wonder why Tulsa kids leave never to come back and why there seems to be few if any companies wanting to relocate to Green Country.
Jimmy is a proxy for AIPAC. He was part of the move towards an unwindable down, unwinable and unnecessary war in Iraq.
Easy to see what side Inhoffe is on... the old, worn out and wrong side.
Well now I just look crazy. Time to have a few Marshall's.
Quote from: Townsend on June 05, 2009, 03:43:50 PM
Anybody else getting PM's from Timmy wanting to fight you?
Yep, he must be sending out a PM blast. I got essentially the same thing.
Quote from: Doofu..err...Know Nothingif you want to keep trying to goad me have it, at least i had the nads to use my real name and not some totally hidden bogus bullcrap
Ok, I've taken some time to analyze the statement made by the president, and it is in fact correct (I know, I was shocked).
Pound for pound, we are one of the largest Muslim nations. Our Muslims may be 18% to 25% larger than Muslims in other countries. If you take the statistics attributed to the average American weight compared to the average weights of the citizenry in Indonesia, Pakistan and other primarily Muslim countries, one could accurately conclude that our Muslims are larger.
So if he is talking about Large Muslims, than I would have to conclude that he's right.
Argument over.
Quote from: Gaspar on June 05, 2009, 04:21:22 PM
Ok, I've taken some time to analyze the statement made by the president, and it is in fact correct (I know, I was shocked).
Pound for pound, we are one of the largest Muslim nations. Our Muslims may be 18% to 25% larger than Muslims in other countries. If you take the statistics attributed to the average American weight compared to the average weights of the citizenry in Indonesia, Pakistan and other primarily Muslim countries, one could accurately conclude that our Muslims are larger.
So if he is talking about Large Muslims, than I would have to conclude that he's right.
Argument over.
Oh well, I'll live to argue another point another day, I'm sure. You win.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 04:27:24 PM
Look if TulsaNow thinks it is okay for you and Townsend to harass me on these boards, fine. Every thread now you just stalk me and say nothing but call me names. Wonder what is wrong with Tulsa look in the mirror, people. If this board is a microcosm of our town I would not want to move here, or to get out as fast as I can.
Then please do, by all means.
And stalking? Hardly. I've responded to probably two threads you're in within the last month. Put on the big-boy pants please.
Quote from: Hoss on June 05, 2009, 04:46:18 PM
Then please do, by all means.
And stalking? Hardly. I've responded to probably two threads you're in within the last month. Put on the big-boy pants please.
Do what? I have the big boy pants on, just really wish you would act like an adult instead of a punk sniping bizat**. I really thought we had gotten over your immaturity but I guess not.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 04:53:24 PM
Do what? I have the big boy pants on, just really wish you would act like an adult instead of a punk sniping bizat**. I really thought we had gotten over your immaturity but I guess not.
You seem to confuse the behavior of others with your own behavior. It's making it impossible to have civil discourse when you repeat yourself constantly, refuse to acknowledge reality, and repeatedly use archaic words you obviously don't understand.
Meanwhile, back on topic...
(http://www.islamicweb.com/begin/muslims_population.gif)
http://www.islamicweb.com/begin/population.htm
http://www.islamicweb.com/begin/religions_changes.htm
There are millions of muslims in this country.
This argument reminds me of when the Pope came to Chicago... city officials proudly stated there were more Poles in Chicago than there are in Warsaw...... I've been told over and over again, that America is a baseball/football country, yet I also understand that out of over 200 countries trying to qualify for the World Cup, the US men's national team is well on their way to qualifying for the 32-team 2010 World Cup Finals-- the sixth straight time dating back to 1990.....
It works like this.... we can argue that America is a "Christian Nation" or a "Judeo-Christian" nation, which conveniently leaves out the truth I remember from back when I lived on the northside of Chicago off Devon/Western-- a predominately muslim/Pakistani/Indian area... there are many areas like this all around the country, not to mention the consistent influx of muslim students at our universities... and these citizens and visitors to our country shouldn't be shortchanged by the soft bigotry of low-minded evangelicals...
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/obama-signals-themes-of-mideast-speech/
From the comments section: As an American Muslim, I appreciate what the President is getting at. But it is a bit of an exaggeration to say that the US could be considered one of the LARGEST Muslim countries in the world. There's still only less than 10 million of us (typically anti-Muslim bigots tend to give the lowest, low-ball estimates, while identity politics playing leaders within Muslim communities favor higher end estimates). Besides, the US is SECULAR, democratic country, not one defined by ANY religion, "racial" or ethnic group. What he perhaps could have said is that the US is one of the freest and best countries in the world to be a practicing Muslim, or for that matter a member of any or no religion. - Naj
Quote from: nathanm on June 05, 2009, 06:48:30 PM
You seem to confuse the behavior of others with your own behavior. It's making it impossible to have civil discourse when you repeat yourself constantly, refuse to acknowledge reality, and repeatedly use archaic words you obviously don't understand.
No I do not confuse my 'behavior' with others - point out where I have just hounded any poster. Waiting. Still waiting. Nooooooope not me. You sir are confused.
What reality am I confused with? The topic of the post?
I will repeat my posts when all the troll droppings obscure my point, true. But that gets in the way of
civility? Really? Wow. You people have problems. Not Guido. Not me. Not AOX. AA. Juan Mad O. DSchulter. Medlock. Ttown Jeff. All the viewpoints that are missing because trolls hound them and hound them. Fortunately I have endless patience, skin thicker than a rhino, and will not just give up.
Thanks for the graphic USR, thank goodness no one pointed out that . . . oh. Yeah. Someone had. It was the
graphic that helps. And again the attacks on Christians. What is wrong with you people? Why the anti-Christian prejudice all the time? Who hurt you so bad that it always comes down to 'Christian bad' all the time? When did you decide that Christians were such awful people?
Obama uttered a factually indefensible remark that carries with it a particular meaning to those of faith. That particular meaning is given credence in a 'hadith', or Islamic command. I simply point that out and get suckerpunched by anonymous creeps shadow boxing.
See? Even in USR's post below, more Christian-bashing! Talk about narrow-minded bigotry and prejudice! Give me a break!
(http://www.thetulsan.com/images/pm.gif)
Per usual, you miss the point. We have a higher percentage of muslims in the US than any other country in North America. We have a higher percentage of muslims in the US than all but a couple of countries in the Western Hemisphere. We have a higher percentage of muslims in the US than most European countries....
Attacks on Christians? Are you kidding?
Your posts are an attack on human decency and TRUE Christian reasoning and thought.
Oh, poor me!... Welcome to the Evangelical Christian Victims' Club.... you can't pray in school, you can't get through high school without being forced to have an abortion, you can't raise your children because they might be forced to defend their flat-earth religious assumptions.....
We live in a country with millions of muslims.
We live in a country that has millions of SECULAR HUMANISTS.
What do you have against secular humanists?
What did they ever do to you?
Here, I think you misplaced this....
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_g2G9XZSAzPY/RicFE2LhcmI/AAAAAAAAAqU/uWnabckG4Y8/s400/right-wing-religion.jpg)
Quote from: OpenYourEyesTulsa on June 05, 2009, 03:43:17 PM
Obama was raised as a muslim, by a muslim father, went to muslim school as a child, has a muslim name, and now reaches out to muslims and Iran (that wants to blow Israel off the planet).
If it looks like duck, quacks like a duck...
Open your eyes, please...
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2007/01/obamas_religiou.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 07:26:29 PM
You people have problems. Not Guido. Not me. Not AOX. AA. Juan Mad O. DSchulter. Medlock. Ttown Jeff. All the viewpoints that are missing because trolls hound them and hound them.
These viewpoints aren't
missing, you can read posts from all those guys both here and in lots of places. I can think of several others, too.
Maybe it's time for you to come to grips with the facts. First, your viewpoint is not nearly as popular as you think it is. Second, you may be free to speak, but nobody owes you an audience. You have to earn that.
Dude, you are just a poster, and you happen to be trying to share the board that
I like. So, if you think you can climb up on your soapbox and freely foam at the mouth, you should think again. Go start a website.
A "unique" worldview such as yours is likely to always provoke questions. And you don't seem to like questions, at least, that's what I gather from your petulant, wiener-like behavior. Are we just supposed to quietly
listen to your admonitions on Muslim World Domination? I think that stuff is nutty. Sorry.
One of my favorite internet acronyms certainly applies to KN in this thread:
GYOFB. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=GYOFB)
Quote from: Chicken Little on June 05, 2009, 10:15:35 PM
These viewpoints aren't missing, you can read posts from all those guys both here and in lots of places. I can think of several others, too.
Maybe it's time for you to come to grips with the facts. First, your viewpoint is not nearly as popular as you think it is. Second, you may be free to speak, but nobody owes you an audience. You have to earn that.
Dude, you are just a poster, and you happen to be trying to share the board that I like. So, if you think you can climb up on your soapbox and freely foam at the mouth, you should think again. Go start a website.
A "unique" worldview such as yours is likely to always provoke questions. And you don't seem to like questions, at least, that's what I gather from your petulant, wiener-like behavior. Are we just supposed to quietly listen to your admonitions on Muslim World Domination? I think that stuff is nutty. Sorry.
They ARE missing. Even my arch-nemesis David Arnett will not use his real name here, and he has his own me-zine and all. Just because someone has their own 'blog' or website or posts on another board or whatever should not mean that they are harassed and beseiged every time they post
here. I have been guilty of that in the past with one person, but have sworn off doing so in the future. You are unwilling to make that commitment to the group, I gather.
No one has the right to lord their viewpoint over another it is true. I reckon I am with you at least what 60% of the time, we would disagree amicably on about 30% of stuff, and 10% our views are unretractable. Most people will not respond in the +1 on boards, may respond on the 30%, and will dig in on the 10%. Again, minority viewpoints are hounded, hassled, called filthy names and subject to the worst kind of bigoted remarks.
So, I post what I thought was an interesting point (had YOU ever heard that hadith, BTW?) and that means I am demanding absolute surrender of all opposing views? No. Foaming? Where? Show me, please. 'Townsends' bigoted, hateful typification of the mentally ill is as disgusting and vile as Obama's deragatory remarks about Special Olympians. Hate speech is hate speech is hate speech. Until it is against a conservative minded person.
My unique world? How unique is that? We are all unique. I suspect that you, sir, are out of touch with most others on this planet. And if you count defending oneself vigorously as being a 'weiner,' you are a sick man. Really I mean that. I am so tired of people being demonized for protecting their viewpoints and hitting back. In this instance, Christian 'fundamentalists' are always bad and will always misinterpret Obama's remarks, but Islamic fundamentalists will always accept the most generous interpretation of Obama's statements from American liberal sensibilities.
So I repeat. Go back to talk about bond issues and the small bones you typically gnaw on, and leave the larger issues for those with broader viewpoints.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 06, 2009, 09:57:01 AM
Uh oh, you want a piece of this too? No I will not be intimidated by people acting like jerks whenever I comment on this board. I make an observation and am assailed with hateful, bigoted language and am reviled as some kind of xenophobe. What is wrong with you people? Are you all just that insecure or that stupid?
They are Dimocrats and libtards...What did you expect...
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 06, 2009, 09:57:01 AM
Uh oh, you want a piece of this too? No I will not be intimidated by people acting like jerks whenever I comment on this board. I make an observation and am assailed with hateful, bigoted language and am reviled as some kind of xenophobe. What is wrong with you people? Are you all just that insecure or that stupid?
Isn't it obvious Timmah? We're all out to get ya!
Now be a good AT&T shill and go back and enjoy your Uverse in standard def....
Quote from: Breadburner on June 06, 2009, 10:28:25 AM
They are Dimocrats and libtards...What did you expect...
I expected more it is true. I guess I am that naive. Here is one for the sheeple: 'dhimmi-crats'!
Quote from: Breadburner on June 06, 2009, 10:28:25 AM
They are Dimocrats and libtards...What did you expect...
Wow, that hurts...
:o
Like we've never heard THAT one before.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 06, 2009, 10:56:01 AM
Are you a Democrat?
Social democrat, yes. Financial and policy-wise I'm more of a libertarian minus the flat-tax crap.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 06, 2009, 10:59:49 AM
Are you registered a D?
Why is that applicable? Seriously? The only reason I would register Democrat is so I could have a say in the primaries since Oklahoma in it's infinite wisdom has closed primaries off to only Rs and Ds....I've only ever one time voted R for anyone in my voting life, and that was a gut feeling that I regretted. I gave Largent a chance and some of his rhetoric disappointed me to say the least.
Short answer: I'll never tell. It's none of anyone's business but mine and the voter board how I registered.
OK, seriously now Tim, did you just delete a reply you gave to me that I quoted later? Are you unsure of your posting ability on here? That's the second time you've done that in two days....
It's not helping your case much.
Quote from: Hoss on June 06, 2009, 11:07:08 AM
OK, seriously now Tim, did you just delete a reply you gave to me that I quoted later? Are you unsure of your posting ability on here? That's the second time you've done that in two days....
It's not helping your case much.
Having endless quotes and re-quotes on a thread is a real pain. As long as the original quote is referenced I like to clean up the thread y'know. What case? That I have a right to not put up with hateful, bigoted harassment?
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 06, 2009, 12:15:53 PM
That I have a right to not put up with hateful, bigoted harassment?
Why are you claiming minority status? Based on what? Your point of view? Persecuted white guy status? The former doesn't qualify and the latter occurs inside your own head.
It can't be religion...I go to church and I've never heard any of this Muslim world domination stuff there. Sorry. I'm a Christian, and so is Obama. And I think we both believe that religion is not the culprit. It's extremist views couched in religion that cause trouble. Muslims aren't trying to take over the world any more than Christians. Each wants to spread their own Good Word, so what? Prostelitizing is nothing new. Only a handful of whackadoodles are willing to strap a bomb on their body or shoot a guy in the back of the head during church...and that's not religion regardless of what is going on inside their heads at the time.
You may think your point of view is somehow grounded in religion, ours or theirs, but I'm telling you that it is not. It's politics, it's extreme, and it's not reflective of the whole of the teachings of either religion, or the whole of the faithful.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 06, 2009, 12:15:53 PM
Having endless quotes and re-quotes on a thread is a real pain. As long as the original quote is referenced I like to clean up the thread y'know. What case? That I have a right to not put up with hateful, bigoted harassment?
Mmmmmkay.
Nice try.
Quote from: Chicken Little on June 06, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
Why are you claiming minority status? Based on what? Your point of view? Persecuted white guy status? The former doesn't qualify and the latter occurs inside your own head.
It can't be religion...I go to church and I've never heard any of this Muslim world domination stuff there. Sorry. I'm a Christian, and so is Obama. And I think we both believe that religion is not the culprit. It's extremist views couched in religion that cause trouble. Muslims aren't trying to take over the world any more than Christians. Each wants to spread their own Good Word, so what? Prostelitizing is nothing new. Only a handful of whackadoodles are willing to strap a bomb on their body or shoot a guy in the back of the head during church...and that's not religion regardless of what is going on inside their heads at the time.
You may think your point of view is somehow grounded in religion, ours or theirs, but I'm telling you that it is not. It's politics, it's extreme, and it's not reflective of the whole of the teachings of either religion, or the whole of the faithful.
The bigotry is all the nut-job, meds, crazy talk. On par with Special Olympics. Sorry you are so ignorant of that offensiveness.
Again you need to go back to talk of city codes and what not. You do not even know what you are talking about here.
My religious beliefs inform a fair amount of my world view and the rest is learning. I certainly would not ever question your relationship with the Lord, but you are really losing touch with reality at this point. You do not not even know what you are talking about. I would love to know what part of quoting the hadith and relating an Arabic saying is extreme. Please tell me what part of encouraging a diverse, multireligious society is extreme? Why are you so invested in trying to paint me as something I am most demonstrably not? I am not trying to pigeonhole you or trying to define whatever nutty religious beliefs you have, or even trying to do that with Muslims. My point that freaked everyone out is that FOR THAT MINORITY OF THE UMMAH THAT IS TRAPPED IN 7TH WORLD THINKING, CALLING AMERICA A MUSLIM COUNTRY OR GIVING THAT IMPRESSION MAY HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
Tell me, Wise One, should Shari'a courts be allowed to operate in the US as they are in the UK?
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 06, 2009, 10:52:56 AM
I expected more it is true. I guess I am that naive. Here is one for the sheeple: 'dhimmi-crats'!
Here's one for sheeple like yourself:
Republican Theocratic Oligarchy Party.
Quote from: USRufnex on June 06, 2009, 02:21:52 PM
Here's one for sheeple like yourself: Republican Theocratic Oligarchy Party.
Fine by me. I am a registered Independent. I thought we knew each other better than we do. I typically do not go for this phony D vs R, left v right bullcrap but I thought Dhimmicrat was a funny play on words. Ha. Ha.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 05, 2009, 07:26:29 PM
No I do not confuse my 'behavior' with others - point out where I have just hounded any poster.
It's hard to do when you constantly edit your posts. Why don't you let them stand as they were originally.
(Personally, I do some editing, but only to either correct grammatical errors or to add more to it, and I note what was changed)
And again with the Dhimmi. If you want to get down to brass tacks, historically the Dhimmi could usually expect much better treatment than non-Christians in Christian countries. Even today, my anti-religion views are looked down upon by the religious majority in this country more than any religious view, save perhaps Scientology. Yet somehow I don't whine about it and try to claim that our President is selling me out.
My problem with Christians in general (at least the bible belt variety) are the folks like you who try to claim persecution where none exists. You're by far the majority in this country and have been very successful in pushing your views on the rest of us and rewriting history to suit your ends of calling our nation one founded on Christendom in contravention of all known facts so that you can justify pushing religion ever farther into the public sphere. Then you cry foul when folks like the ACLU try to slow your evengelical advance in accordance with our Constitution.
You are free to preach whatever you like, but keep it away from government and my tax money. Of course, as long as houses of worship go tax free, yet flout the rules barring them from political activity there can be no fairness.
Quote from: nathanm on June 06, 2009, 03:36:24 PM
It's hard to do when you constantly edit your posts. Why don't you let them stand as they were originally.
(Personally, I do some editing, but only to either correct grammatical errors or to add more to it, and I note what was changed)
And again with the Dhimmi. If you want to get down to brass tacks, historically the Dhimmi could usually expect much better treatment than non-Christians in Christian countries. Even today, my anti-religion views are looked down upon by the religious majority in this country more than any religious view, save perhaps Scientology. Yet somehow I don't whine about it and try to claim that our President is selling me out.
My problem with Christians in general (at least the bible belt variety) are the folks like you who try to claim persecution where none exists. You're by far the majority in this country and have been very successful in pushing your views on the rest of us and rewriting history to suit your ends of calling our nation one founded on Christendom in contravention of all known facts so that you can justify pushing religion ever farther into the public sphere. Then you cry foul when folks like the ACLU try to slow your evengelical advance in accordance with our Constitution.
You are free to preach whatever you like, but keep it away from government and my tax money. Of course, as long as houses of worship go tax free, yet flout the rules barring them from political activity there can be no fairness.
I quote a hadith, and an Arabic saying, and am called insane. And you are upset because I delete posts which are otherwise requoted by others, and that means you cannot answer my questions?
You claim: 'You seem to confuse the behavior of others with your own behavior. It's making it impossible to have civil discourse when you repeat yourself constantly, refuse to acknowledge reality, and repeatedly use archaic words you obviously don't understand.' Again more claims without any justification. Where do I claim religious persecution? Are you reading anything that I say? Where have I claimed America is a 'Christian' nation? What is the matter with you that you assume you know anything about me when clearly you do not?
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 06, 2009, 04:01:05 PM
I quote a hadith, and an Arabic saying, and am called insane. And you are upset because I delete posts which are otherwise requoted by others, and that means you cannot answer my questions?
You claim: 'You seem to confuse the behavior of others with your own behavior. It's making it impossible to have civil discourse when you repeat yourself constantly, refuse to acknowledge reality, and repeatedly use archaic words you obviously don't understand.' Again more claims without any justification. Where do I claim religious persecution? Are you reading anything that I say? Where have I claimed America is a 'Christian' nation? What is the matter with you that you assume you know anything about me when clearly you do not?
I know only what you write. You imply religious persecution by way of claiming that Obama supposedly called us a Muslim nation.
If you understood the word dhimmi, you would not use it in an attempt to bolster your argument that Obama's supposed statement has serious repercussions. Nor would you be so insensitive to the treatment of non-Christians by Christians throughout history.
FWIW, that last post wasn't entirely in response to you, it was mostly a response to this thread in general.
Let's not kid ourselves....we are a Christian Nation:
Damn media!
http://mediamatters.org/research/200906040045
Media again stoke fears that Obama too close to Muslim world
Remember, when you go into a public place that has FAWKS News on the screen, tell them to turn it off....or leave. Don't pay their minions to continue the lies they portray.
Quote from: FOTD on June 07, 2009, 01:14:18 PM
Let's not kid ourselves....we are a Christian Nation:
On a related note, I just say Maher's movie on DVD. Terrific film. It was also a little spooky in the outtakes seeing the pro-life guy advocate violence. I saw that about two days after the Tiller murder.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 04, 2009, 11:52:40 AM
Just filling in for Guido in his absence.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world
"And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. And so there's got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples."
Obama said in Turkey that Americans "do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation". John McCain was criticised in 2007 for saying the US was "a Christian nation", later amending this to "a Judeo-Christian valued nation".
Of course, the concept of separation of church and state, which derived from the First Amendment to the Constitution, means that the US is not officially a Christian nation or a nation of any other particular religion. Which means, I suppose, that the US is as much a Muslim nation as a Christian one.
It's a bold - some might say audacious - turnaround by the president.
It's also a classically Obamaesque move.
During the 2008 campaign, he skillfully made himself, through his life story, the personification of change.
Now, implicitly contrasting himself with the born-again, evangelical Bush who pursued a post-9/11 "crusade" against terrorism, Obama is presenting himself to the Islamic world as the personification of a new, tolerant - and, yes, partly Muslim - America.
UPDATE: The excellent Don Surber crunches the numbers and points out that Obama's claim is highly dubious. According to Surber, the US has an estimated three to eight million Muslims, less than one per cent of the world's total and less than at least 23 other countries.
The average claim for the US Muslim population is about six million. The precise figure is difficult to get because it's not included in US census data and many put the figure at much, much less.
But even if we assume there are six million Muslims in the US, that makes it only the 34th biggest Muslim country in the world - behind Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, China, Ethiopia, Algeria, Morocco, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Tanzania, Syria, Malaysia, Niger, Senegal, Ghana, Tunisia, Somalia, Guinea, Kenya, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Burkina Faso and Tajikistan."
Some estimates puts the total number of Muslims in the U.S. at 1.8mm which would push it even further down the list.
What Conan said...and no, I did not hack into his account.
okay....so we are a Christian Nation ....we're just not Christian
America. Love it or leave it.
Quote from: nathanm on June 06, 2009, 05:11:15 PM
I know only what you write. You imply religious persecution by way of claiming that Obama supposedly called us a Muslim nation.
If you understood the word dhimmi, you would not use it in an attempt to bolster your argument that Obama's supposed statement has serious repercussions. Nor would you be so insensitive to the treatment of non-Christians by Christians throughout history.
FWIW, that last post wasn't entirely in response to you, it was mostly a response to this thread in general.
Again just a bunch of demeaning accusations without any justification, and no attempt to answer my queries any of your reckless, uninformed, mean-spirited attacks. If you want to debate fine but just jumping in on issues which you are dang near totally illiterate and then running scaredy-cat just stay away. Let us be clear, you are offended by my use of the word 'dhimmi' because you think I use it out of context, yet Obama spews out a factually challenged, potentially inflammatory statement and you all argue it should be given the broadest, most Western interpretation. You all claim some prejudice on my part where none exists and yet one Townsend used bigoted harassment you all said nothing and had trouble understanding why that was wrong. Same kind of willful ignorance that lead Obama to try and humiliate Special Olympians and the mentally challenged on live television.
Chicken Litter, have you heard that hadith? For that matter, how do you all stand on the standing of Shari'a courts in the US? Show the readers how broad minded you are, or crawl away and suck your thumbs like the infantile punks you act like to me.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 08, 2009, 07:37:00 AM
Again just a bunch of demeaning accusations without any justification, and no attempt to answer my queries any of your reckless, uninformed, mean-spirited attacks. If you want to debate fine but just jumping in on issues which you are dang near totally illiterate and then running scaredy-cat just stay away. Let us be clear, you are offended by my use of the word 'dhimmi' because you think I use it out of context, yet Obama spews out a factually challenged, potentially inflammatory statement and you all argue it should be given the broadest, most Western interpretation. You all claim some prejudice on my part where none exists and yet one Townsend used bigoted harassment you all said nothing and had trouble understanding why that was wrong. Same kind of willful ignorance that lead Obama to try and humiliate Special Olympians and the mentally challenged on live television.
Chicken Litter, have you heard that hadith? For that matter, how do you all stand on the standing of Shari'a courts in the US? Show the readers how broad minded you are, or crawl away and suck your thumbs like the infantile punks you act like to me.
You're reaching now with the ad-hominem, of which you've been baselessly complaining about this whole thread. So which is it? Are you attacking or being attacked?
Poor little you. Sheesh.