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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 09:17:16 AM

Title: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 09:17:16 AM
Looks like Obama is going to allow the questioning of the immigration status of those in jail at the local level. Another program started by Bush.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/18/AR2009051803172.html

Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 09:19:45 AM
That's just hateful, I tell you, HATEFUL!!!!
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: joiei on May 19, 2009, 10:02:09 AM
President Obama's statement on illegal immigration  http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/ImmigrationFactSheet.pdf (http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/ImmigrationFactSheet.pdf)

Quote"In approaching immigration reform, I believe that we must enact tough, practical reforms. . . . We need
stronger enforcement on the border and at the workplace. . . .
But for reform to work, we also must respond to what pulls people to America. . . . Where we can reunite
families, we should. Where we can bring in more foreign-born workers with the skills our economy needs, we
should. . . . The time to fix our broken immigration system is now. It is critical that as we embark on this
enormous venture to update our immigration system, it is fully reflective of the powerful tradition of
immigration in this country and fully reflective of our values and ideals."
[Obama Statement in U.S. Senate, 5/23/07]
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: we vs us on May 19, 2009, 10:46:59 AM
Quote from: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 09:17:16 AM
Looks like Obama is going to allow the questioning of the immigration status of those in jail at the local level. Another program started by Bush.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/18/AR2009051803172.html



And the racism is . . . where?

QuoteThe effort is likely to significantly reshape immigration enforcement, current and former executive branch officials said. It comes as the Obama administration and Democratic leaders in Congress vow to crack down on illegal immigrants who commit crimes, rather than those who otherwise abide by the law.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has made it "very clear" that her top priority is deporting illegal immigrants who have committed crimes, said David J. Venturella, program director at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Far different from HB 1804, which indisciminately goes after all illegals, this targets people already in jail.

It doesn't really attack the heart of the question, though, which is what to do with all the otherwise law-abiding illegals already in the country.   

Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 10:54:24 AM
Quote from: we vs us on May 19, 2009, 10:46:59 AM

"law-abiding illegals"



Bwahahahaha.

You cannot be serious. That is an oxymoronic statement of the year candidate.

As to the substance of your post, I get it: 
Obama:  Good.
Oklahomans: Bad.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: we vs us on May 19, 2009, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 10:54:24 AM
Bwahahahaha.

You cannot be serious. That is an oxymoronic statement of the year candidate.

As to the substance of your post, I get it: 
Obama:  Good.
Oklahomans: Bad.


Well, no. 
Obama:  making practical headway
Oklahomans:  throwing baby out with the bathwater.

Agreed, it was a poor choice of words, but the substance actually still stands. The crime of being here illegal -- much like pot smoking -- is a victimless crime.  Also, like pot smoking, being here illegally doesn't necessarily predispose someone to committing more or worse crimes.   So if that's true, then it might actually be important to start making distinctions between "law abiding" illegals and criminals who are illegals.  Because the alternative -- identifying, rounding up and deporting ALL illegal immigrants -- would turn us into a moribund police state overnight.  Not to mention the economic damage. 

So, yeah, Obama's nibbling at the edges of the problem.  It's not a sweeping solution but it's a start.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 11:20:11 AM
Speaking of babies and bath water, congrats to you and Mrs. Wevus.  Great job!
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 11:29:28 AM
Quote from: we vs us on May 19, 2009, 11:12:47 AM
Well, no. 
Obama:  making practical headway
Oklahomans:  throwing baby out with the bathwater.

Agreed, it was a poor choice of words, but the substance actually still stands. The crime of being here illegal -- much like pot smoking -- is a victimless crime.  Also, like pot smoking, being here illegally doesn't necessarily predispose someone to committing more or worse crimes.   So if that's true, then it might actually be important to start making distinctions between "law abiding" illegals and criminals who are illegals.  Because the alternative -- identifying, rounding up and deporting ALL illegal immigrants -- would turn us into a moribund police state overnight.  Not to mention the economic damage. 

So, yeah, Obama's nibbling at the edges of the problem.  It's not a sweeping solution but it's a start.

You are really reaching today to cover for the fact that Obama is going after illegals the same way Bush did. Pot smoking is a victimless crime? Let's see, not only is pot smoking itself a crime, but POSSESSING the pot to begin with is a crime. Now, how did the pot get into this country? Through illegal smuggling. Are there any victims of illegal drug smuggling? I don't know, let's ask the folks on our southern border, you know, the ones that have had their heads cut off by the cartels. I guess those victims do not count. 
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: nathanm on May 19, 2009, 11:43:44 AM
Quote from: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 11:29:28 AM
You are really reaching today to cover for the fact that Obama is going after illegals the same way Bush did. Pot smoking is a victimless crime? Let's see, not only is pot smoking itself a crime, but POSSESSING the pot to begin with is a crime. Now, how did the pot get into this country? Through illegal smuggling. Are there any victims of illegal drug smuggling? I don't know, let's ask the folks on our southern border, you know, the ones that have had their heads cut off by the cartels. I guess those victims do not count. 
Gee, don't you think that if it weren't illegal, the smugglers wouldn't be bringing it in from Mexico and all the pot smokers would just smoke whatever they grew in their back yard or on their window sill?

My point being that in this case the substance being illegal is the root cause of the problems associated with it. Ironic, eh?
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: FOTD on May 19, 2009, 12:32:43 PM
OMG!
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 12:36:52 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 19, 2009, 11:43:44 AM
Gee, don't you think that if it weren't illegal, the smugglers wouldn't be bringing it in from Mexico and all the pot smokers would just smoke whatever they grew in their back yard or on their window sill?

My point being that in this case the substance being illegal is the root cause of the problems associated with it. Ironic, eh?

Government can't simply legalize anything.  No, they need to control and tax it which leaves it still wide open for a contraband market.  Legalizing weed would have minimal impact on border violence.  Many people would choose to buy un-taxed pot if given the choice between $50 an ounce or $100 an ounce.

Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: FOTD on May 19, 2009, 12:32:43 PM
OMG!

You don't have to walk around with all this white guilt, really, it's okay to be white.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 19, 2009, 12:42:53 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 12:36:52 PM
Government can't simply legalize anything.  No, they need to control and tax it which leaves it still wide open for a contraband market.  Legalizing weed would have minimal impact on border violence.  Many people would choose to buy un-taxed pot if given the choice between $50 an ounce or $100 an ounce.

That is an interesting point, but I am not sure completely correct. I am the cheapest person you ever met, using coupons and dollar menus as a mission through life. But I would rather buy a good bourbon that some rotgut bathtub stuff.

I guess I just see mind-altering substances differently. If I am gonna drink for drinking sakes, I want better quality.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 19, 2009, 12:42:53 PM
That is an interesting point, but I am not sure completely correct. I am the cheapest person you ever met, using coupons and dollar menus as a mission through life. But I would rather buy a good bourbon that some rotgut bathtub stuff.

I guess I just see mind-altering substances differently. If I am gonna drink for drinking sakes, I want better quality.

And if you could buy the better quality bourbon without the tax, it would be tempting to do so, yes?
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: FOTD on May 19, 2009, 12:49:51 PM
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 19, 2009, 12:42:53 PM
That is an interesting point, but I am not sure completely correct. I am the cheapest person you ever met, using coupons and dollar menus as a mission through life. But I would rather buy a good bourbon that some rotgut bathtub stuff.

I guess I just see mind-altering substances differently. If I am gonna drink for drinking sakes, I want better quality.

Yes, organic Tequila beats that well water. And bringing decrim into this discussion is just another classic example of diversion from the real issue. That's something the GOP and their neo-cons continue to fail away at...
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: custosnox on May 19, 2009, 12:55:12 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 12:46:12 PM
And if you could buy the better quality bourbon without the tax, it would be tempting to do so, yes?
to better equate this, if you were a tequllia drinker, would you rather pay the extra for the stuff down the street that was taxed, or less for the same thing that came up from mexico without getting taxed?  That reminds me, I still need to open that bottle up (I won't mention which of the two it is)
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: FOTD on May 19, 2009, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: custosnox on May 19, 2009, 12:55:12 PM
to better equate this, if you were a tequllia drinker, would you rather pay the extra for the stuff down the street that was taxed, or less for the same thing that came up from mexico without getting taxed?  That reminds me, I still need to open that bottle up (I won't mention which of the two it is)

Make sure you eat the worm.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: nathanm on May 19, 2009, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 12:36:52 PM
Government can't simply legalize anything.  No, they need to control and tax it which leaves it still wide open for a contraband market.  Legalizing weed would have minimal impact on border violence.  Many people would choose to buy un-taxed pot if given the choice between $50 an ounce or $100 an ounce.
If it's easily available, even with a significant tax, the profit in smuggling will be drastically reduced. Most people buy legal cigarettes, or at least ones they believe are legal. Pretty much the only folks that don't are those running around looking for loosies because they only have 50 cents to their name and want to blow it on a smoke.

At this point in that market, most of the problem is on the merchant end, which is much easier to deal with, and doesn't involve armed gangs smuggling stuff across the border.

Edited to add: Custosnox, did you get that bottle from a friend (or yourself in Mexico, which is perfectly legal), or did you buy it from some shady guy who bought it from a smuggler who brought it up from Mexico?
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 01:38:04 PM
Quote from: FOTD on May 19, 2009, 12:59:41 PM
Make sure you eat the worm.

"Eat the worm" in this thread and "teabagging" in another thread. Hmmm.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 01:38:04 PM
"Eat the worm" in this thread and "teabagging" in another thread. Hmmm.

I think FOTD throats the worm...
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: custosnox on May 19, 2009, 02:40:01 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 19, 2009, 01:02:43 PM
If it's easily available, even with a significant tax, the profit in smuggling will be drastically reduced. Most people buy legal cigarettes, or at least ones they believe are legal. Pretty much the only folks that don't are those running around looking for loosies because they only have 50 cents to their name and want to blow it on a smoke.

At this point in that market, most of the problem is on the merchant end, which is much easier to deal with, and doesn't involve armed gangs smuggling stuff across the border.

Edited to add: Custosnox, did you get that bottle from a friend (or yourself in Mexico, which is perfectly legal), or did you buy it from some shady guy who bought it from a smuggler who brought it up from Mexico?
actually, didn't buy it.  Fixed a computer for a mexican who went home for the weekend and brought it back as payment for the repair.  I wasn't saying mine was smuggled though, just reminded me that I needed to break into it lol.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: guido911 on May 19, 2009, 02:54:23 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 19, 2009, 02:39:23 PM
I think FOTD throats the worm...

I literally laughed so hard I nearly booted up my potato chips.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: nathanm on May 19, 2009, 03:07:15 PM
Quote from: custosnox on May 19, 2009, 02:40:01 PM
actually, didn't buy it.  Fixed a computer for a mexican who went home for the weekend and brought it back as payment for the repair.  I wasn't saying mine was smuggled though, just reminded me that I needed to break into it lol.
Oh, well here we are again at perfectly legal. Darn, I was hoping I'd finally found the one guy in town who buys illegal alcohol that isn't moonshine.

BTW, if you need any help with that tequila, let me know.  :o
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 19, 2009, 03:30:24 PM
Do you know the difference between moonshine and ethanol? Nothing.

I'm thinking of firing up a still. If the revenuers come after me, I'll just use the "fuel for my tractor" defense.
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: custosnox on May 19, 2009, 04:45:50 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 19, 2009, 03:07:15 PM
Oh, well here we are again at perfectly legal. Darn, I was hoping I'd finally found the one guy in town who buys illegal alcohol that isn't moonshine.

BTW, if you need any help with that tequila, let me know.  :o
Now, of course, there is all the 6.0 beer that I bootleg in from out of state... oh, did I just type that out loud?
Title: Re: Racism: Obama Style
Post by: nathanm on May 19, 2009, 06:46:43 PM
Quote from: RecycleMichael on May 19, 2009, 03:30:24 PM
Do you know the difference between moonshine and ethanol? Nothing.

I'm thinking of firing up a still. If the revenuers come after me, I'll just use the "fuel for my tractor" defense.
Hope you've actually got a tractor. And land that it would be useful on, rather than a forested and rocky outcrop somewhere deep in the Appalachians. ;)