To the European continent, you know, where hundreds of thousands of our men and women died defending, Pres..ent Obama calls America arrogant, dismissive, and derisive:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5100338/Barack-Obama-arrogant-US-has-been-dismissive-to-allies.html
This is apparently Obama's foreign policy:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/bigheadfred_111/obama.gif
Full Text of the Speech:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/04/full-text-of-barack-obama-in-strasbourg-town-hall.html
I believe the US has been arrogant, dismissive, and derisive. I am willing to debate if this was a needed or justified policy, if America was right to behave in such a way. But I think it is pretty clear that we have indeed behaved in such a way.
To be fair, he also said (straight from the teleprompter):
QuoteNow, we take this peace and prosperity for granted, but this destination was not easily reached, nor was it predestined. The buildings that are now living monuments to European unity were not drawn from simple blueprints. They were born out of the blood of the first half of the 20th century and the resolve of the second. Men and women had to have the imagination to see a better future, and the courage to reach for it. Europeans and Americans had to have the sense of common purpose to join one another, and the patience and the persistence to see a long twilight struggle through.
It was 61 years ago this April that a Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe helped to deliver hope to a continent that had been decimated by war. Amid the ashes and the rubble that surrounded so many cities like this one, America joined with you in an unprecedented effort that secured a lasting prosperity not just in Europe, but around the world -- on both sides of the Atlantic.
One year later, exactly 60 years ago tomorrow, we ensured our shared security when 12 of our nations signed a treaty in Washington that spelled out a simple agreement: An attack on one would be viewed as an attack on all. Without firing a single shot, this Alliance would prevent the Iron Curtain from descending on the free nations of Western Europe.
It would lead eventually to the crumbling of a wall in Berlin and the end of the Communist threat. Two decades later, with 28 member nations that stretched from the Baltic to the Mediterranean, NATO remains the strongest alliance that the world has ever known.
At the crossroads where we stand today, this shared history gives us hope -- but it must not give us rest. This generation cannot stand still. We cannot be content merely to celebrate the achievements of the 20th century, or enjoy the comforts of the 21st century; we must learn from the past to build on its success. We must renew our institutions, our alliances. We must seek the solutions to the challenges of this young century.
This is our generation. This is our time. And I am confident that we can meet any challenge as long as we are together. (Applause.)
Such an effort is never easy. It's always harder to forge true partnerships and sturdy alliances than to act alone, or to wait for the action of somebody else. It's more difficult to break down walls of division than to simply allow our differences to build and our resentments to fester. So we must be honest with ourselves. In recent years we've allowed our Alliance to drift.
I know that there have been honest disagreements over policy, but we also know that there's something more that has crept into our relationship. In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.
But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad.
On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common. They are not wise. They do not represent the truth. They threaten to widen the divide across the Atlantic and leave us both more isolated. They fail to acknowledge the fundamental truth that America cannot confront the challenges of this century alone, but that Europe cannot confront them without America.
President Barrack Hussein Obama, Remarks by President Obama at the Strasbourg Town Hall, Rhenus Sports Arena, Strasbourg, France. April 3rd, 2009. [Emphasis Added]
First of all, I think the speech was painful. His reliance on the teleprompter is becoming a real issue. When he had a week to prepare for each speech during the election the teleprompter style was smooth, convincing, and provided an excellent oratory style. Unfortunately, it has gone stale and no longer has a gloss over it.
However, I think the message was sound. He was speaking to his audience. Failing to recognize that America shares blame for frayed relations would be arrogant, dismissive, and derisive. For that matter, even if you don't think such is the case when speaking to an audience it is wise to throw them a bone. The next line he reminds them that Europe too is to blame. For a far greater portion of the speech he alludes to the fact that modern Europe owes their prosperous and peaceful (non-German speaking) existence to the United States.
I don't view it has throwing the US under the bus.
While I agree with almost everything cannon_fodder wrote, the teleprompter meme is as stale and irrelevant as the "Hussein" reference with its false implication that Obama is a Muslim, a terrorist, or at least is not "one of us."
We barely survived eight years of a president who extemporized to embarrassing excess. While GWB's statements provided a huge amount of fodder for comedians, he did not adequately represent the government, much less the American people of any political persuasion in his sniveling goofy ad-libbing. From the beginning Obama was put on notice that the so-called "liberal media" would be going over every Presidential statement with a fine-tooth comb, looking for ways to demonstrate their "fair and balanced" approach by coming up with false equivalencies. Can we really blame Obama for wanting to be cautious about the message he conveys on our behalf when the media are trying to create an international crisis out from brief physical contact between Michelle Obama and the Queen of the UK?
Unlike his predecessor, Obama is willing to face the media in press conferences. He is not using a teleprompter in his answers. Where he appears to evade a direct answer he's being called on it, but at least he's behaving as an adult. When people criticize him for using a teleprompter it sounds as if they want to criticize him for
something but can't nail him on the merits.
I appreciate cf's quoting of the entire text of the speech. The recent past has shown that in spite of our pretensions we are not able unilaterally to impose our will on the world. To make common cause with countries with which we share a common cultural heritage rather than arrogantly dismissing them as "old Europe" is a needed change in direction. Even so, Obama rightly challenges the anti-Americanism that has become rampant in Europe.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on April 06, 2009, 09:01:40 AM
First of all, I think the speech was painful. His reliance on the teleprompter is becoming a real issue. When he had a week to prepare for each speech during the election the teleprompter style was smooth, convincing, and provided an excellent oratory style. Unfortunately, it has gone stale and no longer has a gloss over it.
It is hard to follow some of the Republican logic. All US Politicians for the most part are horrible and our current Government is horrible beyond belief. But everything our Government does outside of the US is right?
cynical:
I think the issue is that he is being graded on a higher curve. Bush was a noted god-awful orator. He did better when he just spoke like a Texas hay seed - but that led to embarrassing gaffs.
Obama was crisp and polished. Well noted for his oratory skills. That is, in no small part, how he got elected or how he even became relevant (2004 DNC). Now he is expected to live up to it.
The speech he gave was better than what Bush would have done. But on the list of great speeches that is not a statement to be proud of.
A better point of view....in praise of Obama's European democracy:
OP-ED COLUMNIST
The First Shrink
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/opinion/05dowd.html?_r=1&th&emc=th
By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: April 4, 2009
Barack Obama grew up learning how to slip in and out of different worlds — black and white, foreign and American, rich and poor.
The son of an anthropologist, he developed a lot of "tricks," as he put it, training himself to be a close observer of human nature, figuring out what others needed so he could get where he wanted to go.
He was able to banish any fear in older white folk that he was an angry young black man — with smiles, courtesy and, as he wrote in his memoir, "no sudden moves." He learned negotiating skills as a community organizer and was able to ascend to the presidency of the Harvard Law Review by letting a disparate band of self-regarding eggheads feel that they were being heard and heeded.
As Charles J. Ogletree Jr., a Harvard law professor who mentored the young Obama, put it, "He can enter your space and organize your thoughts without necessarily revealing his own concerns and conflicts." He can leave you thinking he agrees, when often he's only agreeing to leave you thinking he agrees.
He privately rolls his eyes at the way many in politics and government spend so much time preening and maneuvering for credit rather than simply doing their jobs. Yet with that detached and novelistic eye that allows him to be a great writer, he is also able to do a kind of political jujitsu, where he assesses the bluster and insecurities of other politicians, defuses them, and then uses them to his advantage.
Gabriel Byrne's brooding psychoanalyst on "In Treatment" might envy Barack Obama's calming psychoanalysis in Europe. He may not have come away with all he wanted substantively. His hand was too weak going in, and there was too much hostility toward America, thanks to W.'s blunders and Cheney's bullying. But he showed a psychological finesse that has been missing from American leadership for a long time.
"Each country has its own quirks," he said at his London press conference, indicating that you had to intuit how much you could prod each leader.
W. always bragged about his instincts, saying he knew whom to trust based on his gut. But even with the help of psychologists putting together profiles of dictators and other major players for our intelligence services, Bush and his inner circle were extraordinarily obtuse about reading the motivations and the intentions of friends and foes.
How could it never occur to them that Saddam Hussein might simply be bluffing about the size of his W.M.D. arsenal to keep the Iranians and other antagonists at bay?
W. bristled at French and German leaders because he thought they were condescending to him. He thought he saw into Vladimir Putin's soul until the Russian leader showed his totalitarian stripes.
W. and Condi were so clueless about the mind-set of Palestinians that Condi was blindsided by the Hamas victory in 2006, learning the news from TV as she did the elliptical at 5 a.m. in the gym of her Watergate apartment.
The Bush chuckleheads misread the world and insisted that everyone else go along with their deluded perception, and they bullied the world and got huffy if the world didn't quickly fall in line.
President Obama, by contrast, employed smart psychology in the global club, even on small things, like asking other leaders if they wanted to start talking first at news conferences.
With Anglo-American capitalism on trial and Gordon Brown floundering in the polls, Mr. Obama took pains to drape an arm around "Gordon" and return to using the phrase "special relationship." He gave a shout-out to the Brown kids, saying he'd talked dinosaurs with them.
He won points with a prickly Sarkozy when he intervened in an argument about tax havens between the French and Chinese leaders, pulling them into a corner to help them "get this all in some kind of perspective" and find a middle ground. Mr. Obama also played to the ego of the Napoleonic French leader, saying at their press conference, "He's courageous on so many fronts, it's hard to keep up."
Soon Sarko was back gushing over his charmant Americain ami.
Having an Iowa-style town hall in Strasbourg with enthusiastic French and German students was a clever ploy to underscore his popularity on the world stage, and put European leaders on notice that many of their constituents are also his.
Like a good shrink, the president listens; it's a way of flattering his subjects and sussing them out without having to fathom what's in their soul. "It is easy to talk to him," Dmitri Medvedev said after their meeting. "He can listen." The Russian president called the American one "my new comrade."
Mr. Obama, the least silly of men, was even willing to mug for a silly Facebook-ready picture, grinning and giving a thumbs-up with Medvedev and a goofy-looking Silvio Berlusconi.
Now that America can't put everyone under its thumb, a thumbs-up and a killer smile can go a long way.
I think Gweed is now realizing with the reduction in his post count that his audience needs to remain where he posts the most: FreeRepublic. Leave him to Wingnuttia!
If this (http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:guido911/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change) isn't his link to his posts over there, then I truly apologize Gweed.
But I doubt I'll ever get an acknowledgment one way or the other since he's ignoring me.
;D
You Freeper you!
President Obama is right: The EU has risen to become a great world leader and a tremendous partner for the U.S. Many in the EU hated Bush, but they think Obama's a rockstar. His speech levelled the playing field. The bus was parked in the parking lot, where it belonged.
Quote from: guido911 on April 06, 2009, 08:45:37 AM
To the European continent, you know, where hundreds of thousands of our men and women died defending, Pres..ent Obama calls America arrogant, dismissive, and derisive:
blah blah blah
Guido, you're not even trying anymore. You've turned into a parody of Republican outage. You've become an FOTD after going through "A Clockwork Orange" reconditioning. Or jamesrage with somewhat better spelling skills but less-discriminating judgment.
No wonder you're rocketing to the bottom of the TulsaNow karma charts.
Hey Now!
Be nice to the village idiots.....
Where'd IPLAW go? Shadows? Snopes?
Typical... insist Obama is a "political messiah" in the view of his supporters... then tear him down when he's found to be less than perfect... and acting like a politician... who knew...?
He's always been someone who thinks/stammers before making statements... he did some of that in the Obama/Keyes debates, some of that in the gazillion dem primary debates, and less of that in the debates with McCain....
Quote from: rwarn17588 on April 06, 2009, 12:36:52 PM
Guido, you're not even trying anymore. You've turned into a parody of Republican outage. You've become an FOTD after going through "A Clockwork Orange" reconditioning. Or jamesrage with somewhat better spelling skills but less-discriminating judgment.
No wonder you're rocketing to the bottom of the TulsaNow karma charts.
Oooh...the karma chart. What are you, in first grade or something?
Quote from: guido911 on April 06, 2009, 03:32:42 PM
Oooh...the karma chart. What are you, in first grade or something?
Given your avatar, the same could be asked of you...
Quote from: guido911 on April 06, 2009, 08:45:37 AM
To the European continent, you know, where hundreds of thousands of our men and women died defending, Pres..ent Obama calls America arrogant, dismissive, and derisive:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5100338/Barack-Obama-arrogant-US-has-been-dismissive-to-allies.html
This is apparently Obama's foreign policy:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/bigheadfred_111/obama.gif
You left off the second half of that statement ""an anti-Americanism [in Europe] that is at once casual but can also be insidious." Obama continued: "Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad. On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common. They are not wise. They do not represent the truth."
I so seldom look at your posts anymore, they are boring, repeititious and lack any substance. Come back to the real world, take off the Fox News Blinders you seem to be wearing. Engage in real debate instead of being blinded by the hate that some news programs likes to feed us.
Quote from: guido911 on April 06, 2009, 08:45:37 AM
To the European continent, you know, where hundreds of thousands of our men and women died defending, Pres..ent Obama calls America arrogant, dismissive, and derisive:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5100338/Barack-Obama-arrogant-US-has-been-dismissive-to-allies.html
This is apparently Obama's foreign policy:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/bigheadfred_111/obama.gif
There was a good story about Guido from a Conservative writer. It is called Obama Derangement Syndrome.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=C437EEA9-A9A9-490D-B5E4-CD952FDEEE17 (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=C437EEA9-A9A9-490D-B5E4-CD952FDEEE17)
Quote from: Trogdor on April 06, 2009, 05:58:58 PM
There was a good story about Guido from a Conservative writer. It is called Obama Derangement Syndrome.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=C437EEA9-A9A9-490D-B5E4-CD952FDEEE17 (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=C437EEA9-A9A9-490D-B5E4-CD952FDEEE17)
When this president goes over to a foreign country and insults this country, which I have a done crap ton more that he and most everyone on this forum to protect, it pisses me off. I could care less what you or any other Obama apologist/sex trophy citizen label me because I feel that way. Incidentally, did I miss Sarkozy calling Chirac arrogant, dismissive and derisive at either the G20 or NATO summit? Guess only our leader feels it necessary to go public with his BUSH Derangement Syndrome.
Quote from: nathanm on April 06, 2009, 04:36:47 PM
Given your avatar, the same could be asked of you...
Aw, did that mean ol' Guido hurt your wittle feewings nate. I sowwy.
Quote from: guido911 on April 06, 2009, 07:23:05 PM
When this president goes over to a foreign country and insults this country, which I have a done crap ton more that he and most everyone on this forum to protect, it pisses me off. I could care less what you or any other Obama apologist/sex trophy citizen label me because I feel that way. Incidentally, did I miss Sarkozy calling Chirac arrogant, dismissive and derisive at either the G20 or NATO summit? Guess only our leader feels it necessary to go public with his BUSH Derangement Syndrome.
Wow, and the Bar actually lets you keep your license? You have some rage issues to deal with. You used to be borderline funny, now you sound like Glenn Beck. Are you going to start crying for us? Telling us how you love your country a shed a tear, fake though they may be?
Aw, who am I kidding, he won't respond to me.
Maybe if Freep created a Tulsa-only division on their website, he'd be perfectly happy.
Quote from: guido911 on April 06, 2009, 07:23:05 PM
When this president goes over to a foreign country and insults this country, which I have a done crap ton more that he and most everyone on this forum to protect, it pisses me off. I could care less what you or any other Obama apologist/sex trophy citizen label me because I feel that way. Incidentally, did I miss Sarkozy calling Chirac arrogant, dismissive and derisive at either the G20 or NATO summit? Guess only our leader feels it necessary to go public with his BUSH Derangement Syndrome.
This is our duly elected commander in chief, soldier. Your relentless partisan lying and petty smear tactics makes you a borderline traitor... you and your right wingbat ilk make the femi-nazis and Jane Fonda seem reasonable in comparison.
Quote from: guido911 on April 06, 2009, 07:23:05 PM
When this president goes over to a foreign country and insults this country, which I have a done crap ton more that he and most everyone on this forum to protect, it pisses me off. I could care less what you or any other Obama apologist/sex trophy citizen label me because I feel that way. Incidentally, did I miss Sarkozy calling Chirac arrogant, dismissive and derisive at either the G20 or NATO summit? Guess only our leader feels it necessary to go public with his BUSH Derangement Syndrome.
Maybe if you didn't post something completely stupid (with no point) about Obama every single day we might believe your outrage.
Quote from: USRufnex on April 06, 2009, 09:24:38 PM
This is our duly elected commander in chief, soldier. Your relentless partisan lying and petty smear tactics makes you a borderline traitor... you and your right wingbat ilk make the femi-nazis and Jane Fonda seem reasonable in comparison.
Lets not repeat republican arguments from a few years ago.
Quote from: Trogdor on April 06, 2009, 10:04:08 PM
Lets not repeat republican arguments from a few years ago.
I'd venture to guess that was sarcasm...
...less sarcasm than irony... no great fan of the Cindy Sheehan tour... those of us who lived with family and friends who came back from combat in Vietnam have a different view of what "protesting the war while supporting the troups" means... and when Guido sounds as shrill as Cindy Sheehan and as partisan as a young Jane Fonda (doesn't matter how much she apologizes, none of us will ever forgive her after she went to Hanoi)......
I proudly voted for the candidate who made this speech in 2002...
http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm
Quote from: guido911 on April 06, 2009, 08:08:18 PM
Aw, did that mean ol' Guido hurt your wittle feewings nate. I sowwy.
No, just pointing out your hypocrisy.
Well, well. I see the remaining regular sex trophy citizens that have done nothing to protect or serve this country have spoken out (thanks to me and the millions of others that have provided them the right to do so).
Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2009, 08:36:14 AM
Well, well. I see the remaining regular sex trophy citizens that have done nothing to protect or serve this country have spoken out (thanks to me and the millions of others that have provided them the right to do so).
You seem to think that having served mean that you can act any way you wish, when in actuality the military would say just the opposite. The military says that your behavior and decorum should be superior that of the average citizen. Yet you act like a constant whiny brat and jerk.
Your service would be commendable, except that you have so little respect for the people that you served, therefore you served no one, you just had a job in the military. You got paid for that job so get over yourself.
I do thank the millions that served including my grandfather and uncle who were both career officers and together served more than 60 years. They and many other real military men would find you an embarrassment.
Quote from: swake on April 09, 2009, 09:10:14 AM
You seem to think that having served mean that you can act any way you wish, when in actuality the military would say just the opposite. The military says that your behavior and decorum should be superior that of the average citizen. Yet you act like a constant whiny brat and jerk.
Your service would be commendable, except that you have so little respect for the people that you served, therefore you served no one, you just had a job in the military. You got paid for that job so get over yourself.
I do thank the millions that served including my grandfather and uncle who were both career officers and together served more than 60 years. They and many other real military men would find you an embarrassment.
How would you know what "real military men" would think of me? Furthermore, on what foundation do you base any of your opinions on what the military is about?
As for my service, I really could care less on how you characterize my service. I will tell you this, though, about who I have served. There are hundreds of people in and around St. Louis that have homes because I busted my rear end sandbagging in the 1990s. There are villagers in Honduras that I suspect are grateful for the medical care I help to provide them in the 1980s. Oh, and that whole "treating the wounded" from Desert Storm thing, bah, meaningless.
Now, tell me what you have done except get on this forum and complain? crickets
Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2009, 10:41:24 AM
How would you know what "real military men" would think of me? Furthermore, on what foundation do you base any of your opinions on what the military is about?
As for my service, I really could care less on how you characterize my service. I will tell you this, though, about who I have served. There are hundreds of people in and around St. Louis that have homes because I busted my rear end sandbagging in the 1990s. There are villagers in Honduras that I suspect are grateful for the medical care I help to provide them in the 1980s. Oh, and that whole "treating the wounded" from Desert Storm thing, bah, meaningless.
Now, tell me what you have done except get on this forum and complain? crickets
You're kidding, right? You, the king of complainers?
Go back to Freep and your element. You're quickly losing any reputation you ever had here.
Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2009, 10:41:24 AM
As for my service, I really could care less on how you characterize my service. I will tell you this, though, about who I have served. There are hundreds of people in and around St. Louis that have homes because I busted my rear end sandbagging in the 1990s. There are villagers in Honduras that I suspect are grateful for the medical care I help to provide them in the 1980s. Oh, and that whole "treating the wounded" from Desert Storm thing, bah, meaningless.
But very few of those things are military-specific. I've had a cousin who did those things as a missionary. I've had friends do it because they felt compelled to better humanity.
I think the issue arises because you act as if those who aren't in the military don't contribute to society, which is patently untrue. If that isn't what you meant, then it would be beneficial to clarify your position. :)
Quote from: TURobY on April 09, 2009, 11:05:23 AM
But very few of those things are military-specific. I've had a cousin who did those things as a missionary. I've had friends do it because they felt compelled to better humanity.
I think the issue arises because you act as if those who aren't in the military don't contribute to society, which is patently untrue. If that isn't what you meant, then it would be beneficial to clarify your position. :)
I hear you. Military-specific? I'll grant you that there was no direct military component to sand bagging, but I was responding to some bozo who moronically alleged that I did not serve anyone. As for the others, do you remember what was happening in Central America in the 1980s? Desert Storm?
The point I was making earlier in this thread was that I did not appreciate our president going overseas and slamming the country I served, which he Biden and others did not. I thought it was a slap in the face to all those service men and women that have made this sacrifice, and indeed those that had died on 9/11 since that apparently forgotten event was the impetus for the "arrogant, dismissive, and derisive" actions of President Bush (whether you agree with his decisions or not). Many on this forum simply cannot take negative comments about Obama, forgetting that for about six years we heard incessant b&tching about Bush, Cheney, evil Haliburton, evil Blackwater and blah blah blah. Hell, we even heard the senate majority leader say that the war is lost while our soldiers were still in harms way fighting it.
As for your final point, I certainly did not intend to imply that only those in the military contribute to society. My better half, who incidentally is also a veteran, saves lives every work day. My point is that we have a society because of those that have served.
Quote from: TURobY on April 09, 2009, 11:05:23 AM
But very few of those things are military-specific. I've had a cousin who did those things as a missionary. I've had friends do it because they felt compelled to better humanity.
I think the issue arises because you act as if those who aren't in the military don't contribute to society, which is patently untrue. If that isn't what you meant, then it would be beneficial to clarify your position. :)
You mean with nuggets like this?
Quote from: GweedWell, well. I see the remaining regular sex trophy citizens that have done nothing to protect or serve this country have spoken out (thanks to me and the millions of others that have provided them the right to do so).
And he wonders why people on here dislike him so. I have news for him. I wanted to serve. I was hounded by the Navy to do so because of my ASVAB scores (92nd percentile). I couldn't. Why? Does having a mother with a brain injury and being the 17 year old in the house getting to care for her qualify? Does that mean I've done nothing to protect or serve my country? Isn't the creed 'God, Family, Country'? Would I be derided for choosing family over country, especially when that meant I got to forgo college for myself or even a military career (I wanted to be a Navy Pilot, but I don't think I would have qualified anyway)?
I think people who have served in the military humbly are great people. Those people though who make it a point to say they've served while asking others what they've done to promote freedom in this country need to step back and get over themselves. I can't stand that. It makes those people you're asking feel like second-class citizens.
What Guido forgets is that this is not Rome. The Legions don't govern the Empire and select the new Emperor by raising him on their shields. The United States was founded on the principle that we are governed with the consent of the governed, not only by the consent of the military and its veterans, or anyone else deemed by Guido to have "served." In fact, a great many of the soldiers, sailors, and airmen who Guido has appointed himself to represent put themselves in harm's way and in some cases gave their lives specifically to defeat military fascism.
There are places on this Earth in which the military governs. I don't think Guido would like to live under those conditions, but maybe. But to suggest that we should become more like them, as Guido has intentionally or unintentionally done, is outside the bounds of legitimate political discourse. And to make false claims in support of his contentions is dishonest.
Quote from: Hoss on April 09, 2009, 11:48:22 AM
You mean with nuggets like this?
And he wonders why people on here dislike him so. I have news for him. I wanted to serve. I was hounded by the Navy to do so because of my ASVAB scores (92nd percentile). I couldn't. Why? Does having a mother with a brain injury and being the 17 year old in the house getting to care for her qualify? Does that mean I've done nothing to protect or serve my country? Isn't the creed 'God, Family, Country'? Would I be derided for choosing family over country, especially when that meant I got to forgo college for myself or even a military career (I wanted to be a Navy Pilot, but I don't think I would have qualified anyway)?
I think people who have served in the military humbly are great people. Those people though who make it a point to say they've served while asking others what they've done to promote freedom in this country need to step back and get over themselves. I can't stand that. It makes those people you're asking feel like second-class citizens.
Quote from: guido911 on April 09, 2009, 08:36:14 AM
Well, well. I see the remaining regular sex trophy citizens that have done nothing to protect or serve this country have spoken out (thanks to me and the millions of others that have provided them the right to do so).
That noise you're hearing is the remnants of guido's credibility being thrown out the window.