Okay..I don't know WHAT it is this week but today marked the 3rd time a store or restaurant locally has had a 5.00 minimum on a purchase to use a credit/debit card...I asked them why they said "they charge us blah blah blah" so I said..okay well just raise your prices!! Your the ones who voluntarily agreed to accept the damn things! Called one owner who basically said don't like it ...don't come back! One place said they would charge me 5.00 and just refund me the change!!( WHAT!?!?)
So I called visa and it turns out this is VERY against their policy(MasterCard and discover as well). They said no matter if you buy a pack of gum or a $10,000 car stores cannot charge you a fee for accepting our cards.
They asked for the business's information and will be contacting them. Anyone else notice this more?
I don't bother to use my card when the total purchase is under $5. That's what cash is for.
Sorry if I don't join the Outrage Brigade on this one.
I use my credit card for everything. 1% cash back on everything adds up to a lot of cash back. I have not encountered this is Tulsa, but have elsewhere (at QT I constantly buy $1 fountain drinks and such on the card).
The issue is that small merchants pay a transaction fee in addition to a percentage of the transaction. It depends on your contract, but it could be more than $1 per transaction (50 cents is not unusual for low volumes). On some guitar strings ($4) one time in college a music store accepted $3.25 cash instead of the full $4 on credit (only options I had) . . . so they aren't just trying to screw people.
But, as I understand it, it is against credit card policies.
As CF said, I heard it is because they pay a fee plus a percentage. If MC/Visa take 50c + 5% then your $1 fountain drink you bought only netted the store 45c. If you spend $5 then they $4.25 and the effect is much less.
And as far as "choosing to accept credit cards" there will not be many businesses around who don't soon. Not many now.
The small merchants are getting bilked on transaction fees. Don't get too worked up over it.
Why do you think Visa runs contests encouraging you to make more transactions, credit cards can afford to pay you 1% cash back, even if you pay off your balance every month and don't end up acrueing interest? The fees are steep enough that they profit every step of the way. The small merchant is squeezed by the credit card companies. The CC companies know they have the leverage. They just say, you don't like the transaction fees, fine - What are you going to do, not accept credit cards? Almost no business could survive these days not taking credit cards.
I've even seen gas stations (not in Tulsa though) that have separate prices for cash and credit.
Quote from: YoungTulsan on April 01, 2009, 03:08:09 PM
I've even seen gas stations (not in Tulsa though) that have separate prices for cash and credit.
EXACTLY! This is what they should do..raise your prices and OFFER A CASH DISCOUNT of 5% or whatever i...don't make me buy more from you just to add up to 5 bucks...
Sorry I am in the minority here but its dumb, they are in business, if they can't afford to run the business get out or stop accepting debit cards...spoke with one today that charged the minimum they said they didn't know it was the policy and would stop asking for that immediately.
Quote from: zstyles on April 01, 2009, 03:14:11 PM
EXACTLY! This is what they should do..raise your prices and OFFER A CASH DISCOUNT of 5% or whatever i...don't make me buy more from you just to add up to 5 bucks...
Sorry I am in the minority here but its dumb, they are in business, if they can't afford to run the business get out or stop accepting debit cards...spoke with one today that charged the minimum they said they didn't know it was the policy and would stop asking for that immediately.
If I remember correctly that is currently illegal in Oklahoma. That is why gas station in Oklahoma no longer do that.
LOL, Tulsans can be such stingy consumers. Zstyles, your actions are pathetic.
This is exactly WHY it sucks to own a small business in this community.
I don't take credit cards at my business for this exact reason. Take your less than $5 purchases and go jump off a cliff, people.
Unless you are buying a pack of gum at a convenience store, there's really no excuse to nickle and dime small business owners who are trying to support themselves and the local economy.
Sounds like there is some confusion.
If I understand you correctly, the stores were telling you that your purchase had to be at least $5, not that they were going to charge you $5 to use the card.
One is legal and one is not.
Quote from: Wilbur on April 01, 2009, 04:59:59 PM
Sounds like there is some confusion.
If I understand you correctly, the stores were telling you that your purchase had to be at least $5, not that they were going to charge you $5 to use the card.
One is legal and one is not.
Either one violates the agreement the merchant has with their processor and can get their merchant agreement revoked. (Just like asking for ID can, if someone bothers to complain)
Hawkins,
Your absolutely wrong. I own 2 businesses and am doing fine without accepting ccs. you see when a merchant decides to accept ccs they AGREE by singing a contract that they will not charge a minimum or any type of fee for consumers to purchase with them. Its very simple, if you don't want to pay fees for accepting ccs, then you don't have to sign that contract. your assumption that business fail without accepting ccs is simply wrong. also your OPINION on this doesn't matter as I have stated facts here.
Now in my opinion I think stores should not try and do this as it breaks their contract with visa or MC and makes them look bad to consumers at the same time. Personally I don't let businesses get away with it. I have been to some places that I have already consumed a product (food) and they try and pull this crap when I'm trying to pay. I politely explain the contract issue with them and inform them I will not be paying an extra fee or upping my bill to satisfy their policy. they can either use my cc correctly or not get paid. they have always chosen to get paid! If I go to any place that requires payment first and they try to charge a fee or minimum payment I simply refuse to do business with them. but hey, that's just me!
Quote from: mocboy on April 01, 2009, 05:50:55 PM
I own 2 businesses and am doing fine without accepting ccs.
You probably won't find me there. I hardly ever carry cash. :o
that's OK, checks work just fine for me as well as cash! ;)
Quote from: mocboy on April 01, 2009, 05:50:55 PM
Hawkins,
Your absolutely wrong. I own 2 businesses and am doing fine without accepting ccs. you see when a merchant decides to accept ccs they AGREE by singing a contract that they will not charge a minimum or any type of fee for consumers to purchase with them. Its very simple, if you don't want to pay fees for accepting ccs, then you don't have to sign that contract. your assumption that business fail without accepting ccs is simply wrong. also your OPINION on this doesn't matter as I have stated facts here.
Now in my opinion I think stores should not try and do this as it breaks their contract with visa or MC and makes them look bad to consumers at the same time. Personally I don't let businesses get away with it. I have been to some places that I have already consumed a product (food) and they try and pull this crap when I'm trying to pay. I politely explain the contract issue with them and inform them I will not be paying an extra fee or upping my bill to satisfy their policy. they can either use my cc correctly or not get paid. they have always chosen to get paid! If I go to any place that requires payment first and they try to charge a fee or minimum payment I simply refuse to do business with them. but hey, that's just me!
I think you misunderstand me. I don't accept credit cards either. I used to, saw how much it was costing me, and quite accepting them.
I agree that stores should not try to charge additional fees or have to put minimums on credit card purchases, but Tulsa consumer habits sometimes demand it. Zstyles attempt to contact VISA over a small purchase issue with a local shop strikes me as uber-lame and harassing.
Back when I did take credit cards, I had the same customers charging small amounts over and over again, and it was costly and inconvenient. Now we have an ATM. No CC machine. No more hassle.
I applaud zstyles for doing that. I do the same thing when a store tries to do that. I think more people should call and complain so the cc companies will start taking action and holding these merchants liable!
It actually is a mission of mine now..after reporting three people and visa thanking me I just got two letters from Visa advising me that they are investigating the merchants and they are not allowed to charge a minimum. One of the businesses I contacted actually agreed with me so I let them off the hook since they stopped requiring it...I just see a more black and white I suppose between right and wrong.
Quote from: mocboy on April 01, 2009, 06:35:02 PM
I applaud zstyles for doing that. I do the same thing when a store tries to do that. I think more people should call and complain so the cc companies will start taking action and holding these merchants liable!
Those poor credit card companies being driven towards bankruptcy by small business!
Quote from: YoungTulsan on April 01, 2009, 08:55:07 PM
Those poor credit card companies being driven towards bankruptcy by small business!
Huh? Explain.
This topic is getting dumber and dumberer. ???
Man, somebody needs to get a life, Z.
Quote from: Hawkins on April 01, 2009, 10:02:45 PM
Huh? Explain.
This topic is getting dumber and dumberer. ???
Man, somebody needs to get a life, Z.
It was a facetious comment about sticking up for the credit card companies like they are the poor little guy that needs help in defense from those huge small businesses.
thats ok YoungTulsan, I think everybody but one person got that!
Oh.
Yeah I guess I'm kinda slow.
I did, after all, think that a "Ritz Camera" was a type of boat at Boaters World for years.
Never had a clue that was a camera shop.
:'(
I'm betting the "letters from VISA" are also a joke.
Quote from: YoungTulsan on April 01, 2009, 10:14:26 PM
It was a facetious comment about sticking up for the credit card companies like they are the poor little guy that needs help in defense from those huge small businesses.
Wow..does anyone on this board ever think they are wrong or is it always about going in circles?
1. They signed an agreement to not charge a fee
2. They are not going to force me to buy more/pay more because I am spending with them on a card and not cash.
3. Its not my privilege to shop there, its my right
4. Its their privilege to accept these cards
5. If everyone had the same mindset as most of the people that think we are "picking on the little guy" or "get over it" I would hate to see where we would be.
6. I think its wrong, it is wrong (according to the companies I spoke to) and I will continue to be the credit police when I encounter such business's :)
7. I guess I am the only one with morals on this board who thinks that forcing a consumer to do something that is against a written contract is wrong.(I guess maybe since you all think Obama can do it, you should too)
In other news, we are all paying more because of CC fees.
Quote from: Trogdor on April 02, 2009, 08:55:23 AM
In other news, we are all paying more because of CC fees.
That's arguable in most cases. Perhaps at the smallest of stores.
Handling cash costs money, too.
Quote from: zstyles on April 02, 2009, 08:47:33 AM
3. Its not my privilege to shop there, its my right
Businesses can refuse service to anyone. They have no legal obligation to let you in. And based on previous reviews you've posted I'd say many businesses would be well advised not to.
By the way, Amex and Discover DO allow you set to set minimum purchase limits.
Quote from: sgrizzle on April 02, 2009, 11:10:37 AM
Businesses can refuse service to anyone. They have no legal obligation to let you in. And based on previous reviews you've posted I'd say many businesses would be well advised not to.
By the way, Amex and Discover DO allow you set to set minimum purchase limits.
I guess I have higher standards than you based on your prev. posts as well.
Actually if they refuse my business they are also in violation if
1. I refuse to Show ID or they set a minimum.
2.They cannot however refuse the sale(we are still on topic here Griz..slow down) based on a minimum or ID requirement.
And yes since you want to totally go off topic,
American Express and Discover card are not debit cards in the majority of cases. If their terms allow merchants to do this..great! But that isn't the topic.
Quote from: zstyles on April 02, 2009, 11:18:44 AM
I guess I have higher standards than you based on your prev. posts as well.
Actually if they refuse my business they are also in violation if
1. I refuse to Show ID or they set a minimum.
2.They cannot however refuse the sale(we are still on topic here Griz..slow down) based on a minimum or ID requirement.
And yes since you want to totally go off topic,
American Express and Discover card are not debit cards in the majority of cases. If their terms allow merchants to do this..great! But that isn't the topic.
Perhaps those are viable rules enforced by credit card companies that have contracts with businesses, but it certainly is not "your right" to shop there.
As has already been stated here, any business can refuse you service.
You have rights as a credit card user, but the endgame of such actions you seem to think are heroic are actually just going to result in higher retail prices for everyone at the stores you harass.
You are not taking on big business here. You are attacking small business owners who support the local economy.
--
Quote from: Hawkins on April 02, 2009, 11:32:26 AM
Perhaps those are viable rules enforced by credit card companies that have contracts with businesses, but it certainly is not "your right" to shop there.
As has already been stated here, any business can refuse you service.
You have rights as a credit card user, but the endgame of such actions you seem to think are heroic are actually just going to result in higher retail prices for everyone at the stores you harass.
You are not taking on big business here. You are attacking small business owners who support the local economy.
--
Great! Glad you understand!
Dude.. Mellow out man. Support local business by not jacking them on $2 charges for 50 cents of transaction fees. Yes, they made a contract but you can still not try destroy them.
Quote from: Trogdor on April 02, 2009, 02:57:47 PM
Dude.. Mellow out man. Support local business by not jacking them on $2 charges for 50 cents of transaction fees. Yes, they made a contract but you can still not try destroy them.
So your saying..that you as a consumer would rather be inconvenienced rather than have someone who signed a contract stick up to their end of that contract.
I would rather be inconvenienced than make a local business lose money on sales because of a third party fee. I don't want people to lose money on me as a business. I don't want people to make a lot of money off on me either.
Trogdor,
once again your not understanding the bottom line here. the merchant chose to sign that contract and therefore is obligated to honor it. if they lose money on sales because of THEIR decision to sign and agree to the contract, that has nothing to do with me or you as a consumer!
Quote from: zstyles on April 02, 2009, 03:59:23 PM
So your saying..that you as a consumer would rather be inconvenienced rather than have someone who signed a contract stick up to their end of that contract.
In all cases, no.
In the case of spending less than $5 on a credit card, it does not inconvenience me to be told I need to spend a minimum. I understand that stores that don't do mega-volumes of business can be hurt by such transactions.
I'll bet you are also the type that leaves a small tip when dining out.
Quote from: mocboy on April 02, 2009, 04:27:00 PM
Trogdor,
once again your not understanding the bottom line here. the merchant chose to sign that contract and therefore is obligated to honor it. if they lose money on sales because of THEIR decision to sign and agree to the contract, that has nothing to do with me or you as a consumer!
You are putting some business who starts business with 50k against a multi billion dollar credit card industry. The business has no hope at all of succeeding without accepting credit cards. Which means they have to accept ANY terms that the cc companies decide, I wouldn't be surprised if the first born clause wasn't in there as well.They can raise their prices and compensate. But I would rather have prices low and use cash on small purchases and save even more when I bought more. But yes, they signed a contract with somebody else. But i can see how somebody might be put into the situation to try to at least stay even on their sales or close.
Quote from: Hawkins on April 02, 2009, 05:07:28 PM
In all cases, no.
In the case of spending less than $5 on a credit card, it does not inconvenience me to be told I need to spend a minimum. I understand that stores that don't do mega-volumes of business can be hurt by such transactions.
I'll bet you are also the type that leaves a small tip when dining out.
**Ignored your small person comment and takes away your karma**
Quote from: Hawkins on April 02, 2009, 05:07:28 PM
I'll bet you are also the type that leaves a small tip when dining out.
The tip I leave when I get
take out far exceeds what any business owner is charged for accepting a card.
Standing behind a person(most of the time a kid)using a credit/debit card for a fountain drink and a candy bar just blows my mind. I don't get it, if it is a debit card you know they are not going to write down $1.85 and soon enough they are going to jack up their account and get that wonderful $25.00 NSF charge and start that whole snowball effect.
The ATM installed was a wonderful idea for the merchant as long as it does not carry the $1.50 or $2.00 charge to use it. I usually will drive to a QT because their ATM cost me nothing to use.
Quote from: DolfanBob on April 13, 2009, 10:40:00 AM
Standing behind a person(most of the time a kid)using a credit/debit card for a fountain drink and a candy bar just blows my mind. I don't get it, if it is a debit card you know they are not going to write down $1.85 and soon enough they are going to jack up their account and get that wonderful $25.00 NSF charge and start that whole snowball effect.
The ATM installed was a wonderful idea for the merchant as long as it does not carry the $1.50 or $2.00 charge to use it. I usually will drive to a QT because their ATM cost me nothing to use.
I constantly use my debit card for just about anything. I seldomly even carry cash. This is in large part due to the fact that almost all of my fincances are done electronically. I don't even see a check, it goes straight to my bank. And no, I'm not a kid. As far as jacking up my account, doesn't happen... okay, happens on occassion, but not from the small charges, but from something else that slips past me (and fyi, I don't write down any of it, I know how much I have and keep a running tally of it in my head, found I have less errors that way). About the only time I use the ATM is when I decide that the lottery has gotten high enough to warrent me buying a ticket, which I have to pay for in cash lol.
And there is one alternative that the small businesses can do to keep zstyles from reporting them to the CC companies.... just make it where you have a minimum of $5.00 purchase period, cash or cc.
Quote from: DolfanBob on April 13, 2009, 10:40:00 AM
Standing behind a person(most of the time a kid)using a credit/debit card for a fountain drink and a candy bar just blows my mind. I don't get it, if it is a debit card you know they are not going to write down $1.85 and soon enough they are going to jack up their account and get that wonderful $25.00 NSF charge and start that whole snowball effect.
Haven't had that happen yet. Last time I had an NSF was when I forgot I had written someone a $200 check and they took 6 months to deposit it and just happened to hit my bank the day before I got paid. That was when I was 18.
I've never been over limit on a credit card.
These days, now that most merchants don't require you to sign for purchases less than $25, it's usually faster to use the card than it is to use cash. And rewards points (or cash back) I get 5% back at gas stations and grocery stores on one card. Needless to say that's the only one I use at QT and Reasor's.
Quote from: DolfanBob on April 13, 2009, 10:40:00 AM
Standing behind a person(most of the time a kid)using a credit/debit card for a fountain drink and a candy bar just blows my mind. I don't get it, if it is a debit card you know they are not going to write down $1.85 and soon enough they are going to jack up their account and get that wonderful $25.00 NSF charge and start that whole snowball effect.
The ATM installed was a wonderful idea for the merchant as long as it does not carry the $1.50 or $2.00 charge to use it. I usually will drive to a QT because their ATM cost me nothing to use.
I bought a piece of candy today at QT for .35 cents and used my debit card...why? I paid for the gas at the pump and went inside..didn't want to pay 1.50 to use the ATM...they took it no problem..didn't say a word..i think the only people that have voiced their concern are baby boomers who are turning into elmer fuds on this issue...this is 2009...yes you can in real time see your account balance from your Iphone, your money isn't in cash form and I haven't seen my paycheck in 3 years since direct deposit....so yes I will continue to use plastic for everything I buy...
Quote from: custosnox on April 13, 2009, 12:34:32 PM
I constantly use my debit card for just about anything. I seldomly even carry cash. This is in large part due to the fact that almost all of my fincances are done electronically. I don't even see a check, it goes straight to my bank. And no, I'm not a kid. As far as jacking up my account, doesn't happen... okay, happens on occassion, but not from the small charges, but from something else that slips past me (and fyi, I don't write down any of it, I know how much I have and keep a running tally of it in my head, found I have less errors that way). About the only time I use the ATM is when I decide that the lottery has gotten high enough to warrent me buying a ticket, which I have to pay for in cash lol.
And there is one alternative that the small businesses can do to keep zstyles from reporting them to the CC companies.... just make it where you have a minimum of $5.00 purchase period, cash or cc.
Does anybody other than me write checks anymore ? Not at the store mind you but for bills and use a stamp. The looks you get at the store are enough to keep me from doing that, so I save that for the women who dont even start writing it until they get the total.
Crazy but I run a bank balance in my head also. Have not bounced anything in over 5 years. I check my on-line bank balance daily to see what has cleared and I also have duplicate checks so the registry is there only for the calendar.
Quote from: DolfanBob on April 14, 2009, 02:54:45 PM
Does anybody other than me write checks anymore ? Not at the store mind you but for bills and use a stamp.
I write checks when I absolutely have to. Like when I have to pay the copay on work under my home warranty or when I renew my car tags.
Otherwise, any checks that need to be sent get written for me by my bank through their billpay service. Everything else is either paid by credit card, or in the case of the credit cards drafted from my account without a paper check.
Just came across this so thought I would revive it
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/106525/Don%27t-Believe-These-7-Credit-Card-Myths (http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/106525/Don%27t-Believe-These-7-Credit-Card-Myths)
Quote
Myth No. 6: Retailers can set a minimum amount you can charge on a credit card when you buy something from them.
The Logic: In a small store or restaurant, it's not uncommon to find a sign that says, "$5 minimum for credit card purchases." If this wasn't allowed by the credit card companies, surely they'd crack down on it.
The Reality: Retailers who set minimum charges are breaking their agreements with the card companies. Because retailers pay interchange fees -- which vary, but average about 2 percent of the sale -- plus possible transaction fees on each credit card purchase, it's easy to see why a store owner would want to discourage lots of small credit card sales. But when they do so, they risk losing their ability to accept cards. "You're allowed to charge any amount on your card, even a penny," says Zeichner. "The problem is that the retailer wants you to charge enough to make it worth his while."
If you need to use a card for a small transaction that's against store policy, you can object, although you may be invited to take your business elsewhere. The other thing to do is contact the credit card company. "We want to know about retailers who do this," says Matt Towson, a spokesman for Discover Financial Services. "It violates our contract with them."
Just went into a place that was doing this, I called visa complained the restaurant is no longer charging a minimum charge any longer.
Quote from: zstyles on April 28, 2009, 10:44:03 AM
Just went into a place that was doing this, I called visa complained the restaurant is no longer charging a minimum charge any longer.
I'll bet you troll Craigslist and flag inappropriate ads too, don't you?
Don't feel bad, we all have our hobbies. ;)
Quote from: Hawkins on April 29, 2009, 06:26:44 PM
I'll bet you troll Craigslist and flag inappropriate ads too, don't you?
Don't feel bad, we all have our hobbies. ;)
I think we may have identifed the 'Karma Chameleon'....
;)