I saw the article about citywide recycling today in the TW. What is the timetable for this actually happening, and when could it potentially start? I am amazed Tulsa doesn't already offer this service.
The story said later this year. Sounds like they are still working out the details.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090315_11_A1_JoseSa116628
Quote from: SXSW on March 15, 2009, 10:57:00 AM
I saw the article about citywide recycling today in the TW. What is the timetable for this actually happening, and when could it potentially start? I am amazed Tulsa doesn't already offer this service.
Tulsa already offers the service, and has for many years, it's just not mandatory. If you pay $2 extra on your water/trash bill, you get twice monthly recycle pick up service. While not expensive, it's kind of a pain in the butt because your pick up days are not the same days as your regular trash pick up, so you have to remember the only two-days per month. And, if you forget, sometimes it might be another three weeks before they pick up again if the month has five weeks in it, so you end up with five weeks worth of recycles, which, depending on the beer drinking that month, could be LOTS!
The one item in the article I had difficulty with, was the city saying it would pay for itself in the long run. Don't see how that will ever happen based on current rates Recycle Michael said recycles are getting.
Looks like a money looser to me.
I was a little confused about the Mayor saying we currently have to sort our recyclables. Other than keeping the paper separate, that isn't true.
I have no problem with city wide recycling, but I am amazed at how little the city/county recycles itself. Recently, we were at a large function at Central Park--lots of aluminum cans, bottles, and glass containers. We kept them all out of the trash, only to be told that the park doesn't recycle. We ended up bringing all of it home to recycle (I'm sure that our neighbors are going to be concerned about us this week when we put out our recycling). Why in the world wouldn't the parks recycle? Why don't schools recycle? And I have never seen any recycling bins in City Hall. How much paper do they throw out in City Council Chambers every week?
Where did it say that Wilbur? I didn't read that in the article at all ...
Quote from: blindnil on March 15, 2009, 04:19:15 PM
Where did it say that Wilbur? I didn't read that in the article at all ...
"There's potentially great benefits to the environment and to our financial bottom line."
One would certainly interpret that to mean the city would make money. As to how, when, if I understand Mr. Recycle, recycling is currently a money looser since it costs more to ship the stuff then it does for the money you collect.
I think the city should pick up trash one day a week and on that day also pick up recyclables. In Austin they give you a green bin for trash, a blue bin for recyclables (paper, plastic, aluminum; no need to separate), and a black bin for yard waste/grass clippings that gets composted. That and getting businesses to recycle more should be priorities for the city. Also it mentioned in the article a recycling facility would be built, what is the timetable for that?
Quote from: Wilbur on March 15, 2009, 05:13:03 PM
One would certainly interpret that to mean the city would make money. As to how, when, if I understand Mr. Recycle, recycling is currently a money looser since it costs more to ship the stuff then it does for the money you collect.
It probably largely depends on the mix of things people are recycling. If they toss a bunch of aluminum cans in the bin along with their glass and plastic, the money made on the aluminum probably pays for recycling the rest of the stuff.
Sorry, it took a while to catch up on other work before I could post on this topic...
The headline and the story were a little incomplete (I am sure the editing staff cut out some details).
What has happened is that the city needs a new recyclable sorting facility built if it is going to upgrade it's recycling efforts. There was a meeting with some potential private companies judging the interest.
The reality is that if Tulsa can go to a city-wide recycling program using big polycarts being collected every other week, there will be enough tonnage to justify private dollars to build such a facility. Right now the curbside collection is only used by 10% of the residents and collects 1,500 tons per year. The new program offering everybody a cart would boost recovery rates to an estimated 40,000 tons per year.
The article mentions 1% recycling now. That is that 1,500 tons picked up curbside is 1% of the 150,000 tons of garbage picked up at the curb. It doesn't mention the 1,500 tons collected by the five Tulsa M.e.t. centers or the 6,000 tons of paper picked up at area schools and churches. It also fails to include the other private efforts like Yaffe and Borg metals, the document shredding companies or the 100,000 tons per year of wood chips processed by the city greenwaste site per year.
This meeting was the first step. The city needs some private investment in sorting facility in order to move forward. If this all works...Tulsa will have a great recycling program and be able to do it for less money than they spend for trash.
Yes, the price for recyclables has gone down and I am losing money. But the good news is that we were able to find a new processor and the prices have started going back up. Part of it is the stimulus money is funding some new mills and some of it is the price of oil going up a bit. Recycling collection may never break even, but at least it should be more cost-effective than trash collection. That is one way to justify it.
Nathanm is right. The mix of recyclables will matter on the price we get for recycling. More beer cans and less wine bottles can make a big difference on the recycling stream.
Michael, is the city open to using carts and doing pick-up once a week? The article didn't mention how the city will decide to begin recycling, will there be a negotiation with the waste recycler and then it starts or will there will be a vote? In Norman, which began curbside recycling last year, the people overwhelmingly voted for it and then actual service began a few months later with everyone getting a recycling bin and $3 a month added to the trash bill. Recycling in Norman is picked up the same day as the trash carts, once a week, and you don't have to sort. The only recyclable you can't put in the bins is cardboard. I would hope in Tulsa they do carts for trash AND for recycling, instead of small bins that fill up easily. Does Tulsa have the capacity to compost yard waste and could that be picked up as well? That would be a good 'green' business for the city to sell compost soil.
Yes. This plan is to use carts for recycling.
Then maybe after everybody is used to the carts, we can have another discussion about using carts for garbage as well.
The plan is to make no changes to garbage collection, but offer great recycling to all. I think we have the political support to have more recycling. Sure, there will be some citizens who call us names and swear that recycling kills family pets and leads to dementia, but I think most are willing to give recycling a chance.
A lot of people have been working on this for a long time. I am so pleased the Mayor and some of the councilors agree on this approach.
We don't have the ability to go to a large scale composting program overnight. The compost facilty would have to get permitted, etc.
Why anybody throws away grass clippings is beyond me.
RM, could we get the parks, schools & City Hall to recycle too?
What do you think about the possibility of making recycling mandatory? I know some cities fine you if you're caught not recycling, which to me sounds like a great way to 'force' people to not be lazy and recycle. Seattle I know does this and Austin does it for businesses and is working on doing it for residences too. What is the current state of business recycling in Tulsa? How many of the big towers downtown do it? What about TU, ORU, and OU/OSU-Tulsa?
One thing that we should improve on Norman's program is accepting cardboard and more plastics than #1 and #2.
Force accomplishes nothing.
I, of course, don't believe it's right to "force" anyone to do anything.
I prefer carrots over sticks.
RM you have access to an excellent target market that I'm sure other business owners would like access to. Access to this demographic is a valuable commodity that you can use to your advantage.
So why not develop an incentive for recycling. Local stores and businesses could offer discounts, BOGOs and other promotions on a monthly basis to recyclers in the Tulsa area. These would only be available to recyclers and be included in the billing statements. Local restaurants, green businesses, grocery stores, home & garden retailers and other consumable industries would be excellent targets.
The savings created by the coupons would more than make up for the expense of recycling. Additionally as the program grows, the Met could charge a "marketing fee" to the businesses participating. I bet you would experience a huge boost in participation if people realized that they were going to receive $20, $40, $50 a month in coupons and special offers to recycle.
Both parties win with this. The Met gets increased participation, promotion with local businesses, and the offset is a selling feature to recycling.
The retailers, that choose to participate in the program, get direct access to a target market on a monthly basis to promote their products, and have the ability to promote their own green philosophy in doing so. Both parties will be able to directly measure the effectiveness of the program.
Great idea Gaspar...enjoy some recycled Karma. ;D
Quote from: carltonplace on March 16, 2009, 03:35:31 PM
Great idea Gaspar...enjoy some recycled Karma. ;D
Back at ya!
Your ideas already exists...that proves it must be good.
https://www.recyclebank.com/
I have been talking about it for years. Mayor Taylor is very interested.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 16, 2009, 03:48:06 PM
Your ideas already exists...that proves it must be good.
https://www.recyclebank.com/
I have been talking about it for years. Mayor Taylor is very interested.
Great!
I doubt you would need an outside company to manage it. I think you could put together a group of businesses, and release a single press release.
A couple days of blabbing on the news and promotion through an insert in the City trash bill, and you would be runnin and gunnin.
Of course an outside company would make it easier, but they would skim an unnecessary percentage I think.
Looking at the RecycleBank program, I don't think you would want to burden yourself with measuring quantity using bins with sensors.
I think you would just want to get increased participation across the board. Perhaps you could evolve the system over time into something like this, but it seems like it would be more expensive and take away the option of flexible promotion of local businesses.
Hey business owners, what do you think?
I'll recycle every day for a couple of Ri-Le spring rolls or 25% off a Jo Mamma's.
Most of these companies already have coupons printed and are looking for ways to distribute them. I'm not seeing a whole lot of expense in getting this thing started.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 16, 2009, 01:58:48 PM
We don't have the ability to go to a large scale composting program overnight. The compost facilty would have to get permitted, etc.
Why anybody throws away grass clippings is beyond me.
I don't, I've used a mulching mower for years and years.
Michael, I noticed you're on the task force to study trash pick-up and recycling. If you could keep us updated on the progress that would be great. I'd really like to see trash pick-up reduced to one day a week with city-provided polycarts, one for trash and one for recycling. Maybe even one for yard waste too like they have in Austin. That and expanded recycling for office towers and apartment complexes within the city.
TW article about the task force: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20090918_11_A9_MayorK74518&archive=yes (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20090918_11_A9_MayorK74518&archive=yes)
Why on Earth do we need to study this AGAIN? We just got done spending how much money on a study? Now we're going to spend more time studying? Either do it or forget it. Geez.
I think its a good idea to look at the recycling options and to try to remove yard waste from the landfills but how many trucks (one trip to pick up recyclables, one for green wastes and one for everything else?) will we need to make that happen and how do we get people to participate?
I am trying to not discuss recycling as much for a while to help this task force have a chance to make up it's own mind. I have such a dominant personality and feel I know this topic so much that I could get in the way.
It is a good group... I have high hopes.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on September 21, 2009, 11:29:13 AM
I am trying to not discuss recycling as much for a while to help this task force have a chance to make up it's own mind. I have such a dominant personality and feel I know this topic so much that I could get in the way.
It is a good group... I have high hopes.
I still like the idea of a program that encourages recycling through choice by offering local business discounts and incentives to consumers. Not only would it spur an increase in recycling, but it would stimulate investment in local business.
Choice beats force any day!
Quote from: Gaspar on September 21, 2009, 12:34:35 PM
I still like the idea of a program that encourages recycling through choice by offering local business discounts and incentives to consumers. Not only would it spur an increase in recycling, but it would stimulate investment in local business.
Choice beats force any day!
So then, your against seatbelt laws? (sorry, just instantly came to mind and had to blurt it out, and for the record, I hate mandatory seatbelt laws, even though I always wear mine)
Quote from: custosnox on September 21, 2009, 01:06:17 PM
So then, your against seatbelt laws? (sorry, just instantly came to mind and had to blurt it out, and for the record, I hate mandatory seatbelt laws, even though I always wear mine)
Apples and oranges. Not recycling my newspaper today will not kill me.
Quote from: Gaspar on September 21, 2009, 01:22:24 PM
Apples and oranges. Not recycling my newspaper today will not kill me.
Unless it spontaneously combusts...
Quote from: Conan71 on September 21, 2009, 01:25:49 PM
Unless it spontaneously combusts...
Excellent point. I'll put it outside.
Quote from: Gaspar on September 21, 2009, 01:22:24 PM
Apples and oranges. Not recycling my newspaper today will not kill me.
I was making the comparison to the fact that seatbelt laws are forced, and the use of seatbelts have increased dramatically since the inception of such. While I think force isn't the answer to problems, you can't deny the effect.
/didn't read the entire thread.
Tulsa is in a very small minority of cities with either twice a week trash pickup OR non-restricted trash pickup. Every city I've lived in (other than Tulsa) has had once a week trash pickup. Every city I can think of too. Every city I have lived in has had SOME restriction on trash: recycling, number of cans, yard waste. SOMETHING.
In Tulsa, you could put out 10 cans of trash, 4 trees, 8 bags of leaves, 14 lbs of aluminum, and a half ton of newspaper on your first trash pickup on your first day of pickup, and repeat it for your second. That's insane. The only real benefit is if you forget trash pickup and remember it when you are getting ready for bed - you don't have to put it out that day.
Really, a family doesn't need more than 2 trash cans 85% of the time. One of those large mechanized pickup tubs is more than 2 regular garbage cans. Then toss in a "special pickup" every now and then for yard waste or whatever for the other 15% of waste. If nearly every other city in the nation can do it, so can we. I'm tired of being behind the curve on common sense issues.
To save money, reduce emissions, AND add recycling in exchange for once a week trash pickup should be a no brainer.