We spent quite a bit of time in Riverparks this weekend with the nice weather, and there's such a void with River's Edge being closed. Supposedly there were plans for a new restaurant to go in- has anyone heard anything? What might go in and/or timing? Spring is fast approaching...
I've heard some lofty plans that involve a much larger restaurant. They may leave River's edge vacant because of that plan.
Well, I hope there is a small gathering place that serves up some brews, nachos, and live music that attracts the diverse crowd the Rivers Edge did. I loved that place. Just a good place to "get out" that you would bring the entire family and not really do anything, just enjoy being outside.
I worry about anything "big" going in. Too big and you spoil what was great about River's Edge. Not to mention that a bigger establishment means you'd have to add all the parking that our illustrious zoning code would require.
"Call something paradise, kiss it goodbye...."
I hate it that you have to get a variance for reduced parking. We should set the maximum parking, and require developers to prove hardship for increasing it! (Especially anywhere near our city's premiere greenbelt.)
The "big" concept would actually float the restaurant and parking above riverside drive.
I think Joe Mama's III or another Little Chicago Pizzeria should go where River's Edge was. Either that or let's get the Barazza brothers to bring back Boston Ave. Street Skates to that location. May not be profitable, but since when has that been a recent concern in our economy? You don't need to make a profit, you just need people to believe in your bull **** and keep dumping money into your pipe dreams. The Barazza brothers seemed to operate on the same principal our banks and mortgage companies have been operating on. [;)]
Let's get some bail-out action to re-open and subsidize River's Edge!
Received an almost answer on this today, with what sounds like the final coming tomorrow. Sounds great, just wish it wasn't a year away.
www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090311_11_A13_Thesea528327
I'm sure both proposals have merit and I will happily patronize either one, but....I would really like to see the Tom Dittus project work out. The Blue Rose is such a great Tulsa tradition and I like how their design goes out over the river.
I had heard McNellie's.
Going out over the water is a cool design, but being elevated it cuts the place off from the bulk of traffic in the area. It sets it apart from the scene instead of making it part of the scene. I liked how the Rivers Edge was just part of the landscape and people were all around it - even if it wasn't their destination.
So long as it brings back a place for a very diverse group of people to gather at the river parks and "chill" on nice days, I'm happy with it. Just having a restaurant there that was like any other would not satisfy me. To me, the point is to draw families down there to kill a nice evening.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 12, 2009, 08:22:21 AM
Going out over the water is a cool design, but being elevated it cuts the place off from the bulk of traffic in the area. It sets it apart from the scene instead of making it part of the scene. I liked how the Rivers Edge was just part of the landscape and people were all around it - even if it wasn't their destination.
So long as it brings back a place for a very diverse group of people to gather at the river parks and "chill" on nice days, I'm happy with it. Just having a restaurant there that was like any other would not satisfy me. To me, the point is to draw families down there to kill a nice evening.
Agree. Not crazy about the water design...but I'd love to see Tom back in the game!
I don't think the Arkansas River area should be over-built up, IMO it's best in it's natural state. All that is really needed to enjoy the river area is a nice wide jogging trail and a few picnic tables and maybe a small restaurant or two and that should be about all. Austin, Texas has a Riverwalk area that is choked with buildings and crowds, I don't think that would be a good idea. :-X
I would love to have a McNellies down the street from me.
At the risk of being booed, I am not so excited about a biker bar being down the street from me.
Blue Rose was not a place to take the whole family. McNellies attracts people of all ages. My vote would be for Elliot Nelson's plan.
I was very curious, so I made some phone calls to see what happened at the meeting this morning- Tom Dittus' project got the go-ahead.
To clarify, from the articles I read in TW and UT and the interviews on the news yesterday, Eliot Nelson's project was not another McNellie's. I'm sure they would have beer, but it was more of a hot dog and burger place. By the same token, I don't think they will be completely recreating the Blue Rose. Both parties mentioned understanding the need for it to be a family-friendly place. As for the "bikers", most of those are white-collar professional guys who put on black leather chaps and ride a couple of hours on the weekend (I'm married to one).
I'm just excited to have something new and improved on that spot. Again, wishing it wouldn't take so long, but I'm sure it will be worth the wait.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090312_11_0_RiverP587626
Quote
Blue Rose Cafe to be resurrected on the river
By P.J. LASSEK World Staff Writer
Published: 3/12/2009 9:49 AM
Last Modified: 3/12/2009 10:37 AM
River Parks Authority on Thursday directed staff to negotiate a contract with Tom Dittus to resurrect the Blue Rose Cafe on the east bank of the Arkansas River.
Dittus was one of two local restaurant entrepreneurs to submit a proposal for a riverfront, full-service restaurant to replace the former River Edge Bistro and Cafe at 19th Street.
Elliot Nelson, who owns El Guapo's and McNellie's also submitted a plan.
The restaurant site will sit on about a 3.81 acres bounded on the west by the river and on the east by Riverside Drive at 19th Street.
For more than a decade, the Blue Rose Cafe was a popular restaurant located on Brookside. Dittus closed the cafe in 2001 to dedicate his time and resources to his late brother, who at the time was undergoing cancer treatments in Germany.
For more information, read Friday's Tulsa World.
By P.J. LASSEK World Staff Writer
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2009/20090312_bluerose.jpg)
Looks pretty cool! :)
Quote from: southerngirl on March 12, 2009, 12:50:54 PM
I was very curious, so I made some phone calls to see what happened at the meeting this morning- Tom Dittus' project got the go-ahead.
To clarify, from the articles I read in TW and UT and the interviews on the news yesterday, Eliot Nelson's project was not another McNellie's. I'm sure they would have beer, but it was more of a hot dog and burger place. By the same token, I don't think they will be completely recreating the Blue Rose. Both parties mentioned understanding the need for it to be a family-friendly place. As for the "bikers", most of those are white-collar professional guys who put on black leather chaps and ride a couple of hours on the weekend (I'm married to one).
I'm just excited to have something new and improved on that spot. Again, wishing it wouldn't take so long, but I'm sure it will be worth the wait.
Just to clarify--I have no issues with "bikers" (most of whom probably make more money than me)--it's the noise level of the bikes that concerns me. And my recollection of the Blue Rose was that it was much more of a bar than a restaurant, which is why I wouldn't take kids there. But if he is going to try an build more of a family friendly place, than I have no problems. I'm just hopeful we won't have swarms of bikes driving around here (or someone finds a way to force them to be quieter).
I think it looks horrible. They have turned their back on the park and have taken a great people watching spot and instead of improving that, have ruined it. I didnt go there to look at the river. The river was a backdrop to the people, musicians, kids, bikeriders, rollerbladers, etc. Now its just the opposite. It was the unique, connected, interactive, space that was wonderful. Now its "seperate" from the flow of people and the park. UGH what a shame. What were they thinking!? Instead of a people watching spot, its a river watching spot. Big whoop.
Quote from: TheArtist on March 12, 2009, 06:11:38 PM
I think it looks horrible. They have turned their back on the park and have taken a great people watching spot and instead of improving that, have ruined it. I didnt go there to look at the river. The river was a backdrop to the people, musicians, kids, bikeriders, rollerbladers, etc. Now its just the opposite. It was the unique, connected, interactive, space that was wonderful. Now its "seperate" from the flow of people and the park. UGH what a shame. What were they thinking!? Instead of a people watching spot, its a river watching spot. Big whoop.
I knew the day would come when I agreed with you on something. I don't care about the design style, its just okay. I just lament that it no longer is an interactive setting. I enjoyed watching the diners, dogs, kids, ducks etc. as I jogged by. Closest thing to a European open air plaza that we had.
And as far as the loud bikers, the restaurant won't matter. We hear them a half mile away rapping down Riverside starting the first sunny day over 60degrees.
The River Parks Authority on Thursday approved a 30-year ground lease so that the Blue Rose Cafe can be resurrected on the east bank of the Arkansas River.
Tom Dittus, a member of Swamphouse Partners LLC, which is pursuing the project, said the goal is for patrons to be eating burgers and other meals at the restaurant by Feb. 15.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090709_11_0_TheRiv809032 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090709_11_0_TheRiv809032)
Wow, start up and construction is only $392K? I would have expected about double that. If they are going to be serving by Feb. 15, they better get cracking.
I've been missing the Rivers Edge a TON this year. At least a few times a month there will be a nice evening PERFECT for taking the family (including dogs) to the Rivers Edge. :'(
I hope the new place fills the gap.
Please tell me that the new place will allow dogs and kids....
If it's just another bar, I'll be sad.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on July 09, 2009, 11:34:09 AM
I've been missing the Rivers Edge a TON this year. At least a few times a month there will be a nice evening PERFECT for taking the family (including dogs) to the Rivers Edge. :'(
I hope the new place fills the gap.
My dog has told me that he misses his hotdogs from there. Honestly he did, you just have to speak dogenease
Another step in the process down.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090825_11_0_TeBado88531 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090825_11_0_TeBado88531)
QuoteException approved to resurrect Tulsa river restaurant
By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
Published: 8/25/2009 2:53 PM
Last Modified: 8/25/2009 2:53 PM
The Board of Adjustment on Tuesday approved a special exception that will allow the owners of the Blue Rose Cafe to resurrect their restaurant on the east bank of the Arkansas River.
The restaurant will be on 4.5 acres in River Parks, bounded on the west by the river and on the east by Riverside Drive at 19th Street.
The roughly 2,600-square-foot restaurant will have seating for 90 people indoors and 110 to 120 patrons outdoors. It also will include floor-to-ceiling windows and a 12-foot water wall at the entrance.
For more than a decade, the Blue Rose Cafe was a popular restaurant at 35th Street and Peoria Avenue. In July, the River Parks Authority approved a 30-year ground lease so that the Blue Rose Cafe could be built along the river.
The restaurant is expected to open in mid-February.
Tom Dittus of Swamphouse Partners LLC, which is developing the project, said the company also plans to serve food out of the cabana that was formerly home to the River's Edge Bistro and Cafe.
That site is scheduled to open for business in late fall, Dittus said.
The special exception was required because a restaurant as an accessory to a park is not permitted under the property's current zoning.
Quote from: Townsend on August 25, 2009, 03:48:57 PM
Another step in the process down.
"Tom Dittus of Swamphouse Partners LLC, which is developing the project, said the company also plans to serve food out of the cabana that was formerly home to the River's Edge Bistro and Cafe.
That site is scheduled to open for business in late fall, Dittus said. "
That's freaking awesome!!! Late fall for a little BR grub!
Here's the site plan from the BOA exhibit.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2575/3881869125_90ef593b86_b.jpg)
I'm generally in favor of this development, but I hate to see the expanded parking lot gobbling up precious green space. Plus, now it's a typical development that separates the use from the street with a parking lot.
I know they worked hard to make the site appropriate for trail users (their original parking concept would have required trail users to cross the parking lot entrance!), so this is certainly a safer and better design from that perspective.
When it comes to parking lots, I believe in both the chicken and the egg. People walked and biked to Rivers Edge not only because it was an appealing destination that catered to trail users...but because neighbors knew that there was limited parking. Walking was less of a hassle than hoping for a space in the parking lot. Now, the bigger lot will attract more cars. And it seems to eliminate a large space that was used by a myriad of people: playing catch, picnics on a blanket, frolicking with pets and kids, enjoying the music AND the green space...
What's that quote? "If you build a great place for cars, you get more cars. If you build a great place for people and pedestrians, you get more people and pedestrians."
The original Rivers Edge was an amenity for the park. I'm a bit concerned that in the new plan, the adjacent park will simply be an amenity for the bar.
Not sure how to feel about this one. Hope the reality will prove me wrong.
Not to be overly simple and negative but the huge parking lot sucks.
Quote from: Townsend on September 02, 2009, 04:50:56 PM
Not to be overly simple and negative but the huge parking lot sucks.
True. And succinct.
Why does the parking lot need 3 entry/exit points?
FYI- this job is out on the construction wires for bids, so it's definitely moving forward.
Quote from: Townsend on September 02, 2009, 04:50:56 PM
Not to be overly simple and negative but the huge parking lot sucks.
+1
I wish I could see a larger cite plan to get a feel for what areas will be parking lot now. Judging by the drawin, take the existing parking area and mirror it to the NW. It appears everything that was the River's Edge, plus the sitting area, plus some of the area under the trees will be a parking lot (essentially the entire area that was claimed by River's Edge). Then about 100 yards to the NW there is another lot.
Too bad. I understand wanting to eliminate the green space immediately around the restaurant so people can't "freeload," but it won't help the sense of community or "blending in." Nonetheless, if the choice is this or nothing - I'm glad it's going in.
But I still miss the River's Edge.
http://maps.google.com/maps?source=ig&hl=en&q=Tulsa,+OK&ie=UTF8&split=0&gl=us&ei=OvifSpDZEs3fnQfKx-XlDQ&ll=36.133893,-95.99132&spn=0.003072,0.004823&t=h&z=18
This help?
Quote from: cannon_fodder on September 03, 2009, 12:17:03 PM
But I still miss the River's Edge.
Aah, but that will be re-utilized by late fall according to the last story I read.
I'm not a fan of the extended parking lot, however, at least where they extended it to wasn't a high use area. I think the most I ever saw going on up in that area was people walking through. However, it looks like the bathrooms will be going away. Not that they were in great shape to begin with, but I don't think BR will like all the walkers/joggers/bikers going in and out to use the bathroom.
I really hope that the re-utilization of the old cafe has a lot of the same feel as it did before.
Quote from: custosnox on September 03, 2009, 02:52:58 PM
I'm not a fan of the extended parking lot, however, at least where they extended it to wasn't a high use area. I think the most I ever saw going on up in that area was people walking through. However, it looks like the bathrooms will be going away. Not that they were in great shape to begin with, but I don't think BR will like all the walkers/joggers/bikers going in and out to use the bathroom.
I really hope that the re-utilization of the old cafe has a lot of the same feel as it did before.
Seemed to be a high use area on the weekends, lots of couples, families, and there dogs seemed to picnic there and to the west of River's Edge.
That said I don't understand the need for the extra parking, there is an underutilized parking lot about a block tot he west.
Over all besides the what seems to be pointless extra parking I am happy to see this development move forward.
Most of the people picnicing and just hanging out that I saw was mostly to the west of that area. I won't say that it wasn't used, just one of the lesser used area's around the cafe.
And the simple answer to why the extra parking when there is an underused lot a block away? Come on, it's a block away. You can't expect the majority of people in Tulsa to walk that far to get to their destination, can you?
Thanks Griz. WIth that overlay I'd have to agree that the parking lot isn't in a high use area. If they screen it somehow it would be even better. But all things considered, the lot isn't as bad as I feared.
Quote from: godboko71 on September 03, 2009, 03:00:44 PM
Seemed to be a high use area on the weekends, lots of couples, families, and there dogs seemed to picnic there and to the west of River's Edge.
That said I don't understand the need for the extra parking, there is an underutilized parking lot about a block tot he west.
Over all besides the what seems to be pointless extra parking I am happy to see this development move forward.
About a block to the west? That would be one wet parking lot. Do you mean the one to the south?
I think many of you are underestimating the kind of destination Blue Rose will create, assuming a lot of Tom's old customers become regulars again. Saturday and Sunday afternoons could get very competitive for parking spots.
Quote from: Conan71 on September 04, 2009, 08:49:12 AM
About a block to the west? That would be one wet parking lot.
Not if it were a dockable pier. ;)
Quote from: Conan71 on September 04, 2009, 08:49:12 AM
About a block to the west? That would be one wet parking lot. Do you mean the one to the south?
I think many of you are underestimating the kind of destination Blue Rose will create, assuming a lot of Tom's old customers become regulars again. Saturday and Sunday afternoons could get very competitive for parking spots.
I think he's referring to the short walk across the 21st st bridge to the parking lot by the skate park.
a little more than a block, but not by much.
Quote from: PepePeru on September 04, 2009, 09:32:27 AM
I think he's referring to the short walk across the 21st st bridge to the parking lot by the skate park.
a little more than a block, but not by much.
It's about 1/3 of a mile, actually maybe slightly more. A block is approximately 1/10 of a mile. Not to get technical or anything. ;)
Quote from: custosnox on September 03, 2009, 02:52:58 PM
I'm not a fan of the extended parking lot, however, at least where they extended it to wasn't a high use area. I think the most I ever saw going on up in that area was people walking through. However, it looks like the bathrooms will be going away. Not that they were in great shape to begin with, but I don't think BR will like all the walkers/joggers/bikers going in and out to use the bathroom.
I really hope that the re-utilization of the old cafe has a lot of the same feel as it did before.
Lots of people use the asphalt trail by the River's Edge to cross Riverside on foot (or bike or with dogs/kids) to get to 19th St Eastbound and into the neighborhood which is a mix of single and multi family residential (Lincoln Park Apartments, University Club Towers). The only other safe place to cross is at 21st, or to walk over the bridge and then cross traffic at 21st and Boulder. Crossing at Denver is hopeless and confusing and you can't see the northbound traffic where Riverside connects at the bend to Denver.
In this design, people crossing at 19th will walk through the parking lot to get to the street.
I'm not saying this is a terrible solution, or that it's Tom's job to fix an existing problem. But there certainly needs to be a better way to access the park from the east side of Riverside for those that don't drive there. In fact this is a problem all along Riverside, there are few pedestrian crossings.
Carlton, whatever happened to earning money for, aquiring, and drinking beer being your only concerns in life?
Quote from: carltonplace on September 04, 2009, 12:10:03 PM
Lots of people use the asphalt trail by the River's Edge to cross Riverside on foot (or bike or with dogs/kids) to get to 19th St Eastbound and into the neighborhood which is a mix of single and multi family residential (Lincoln Park Apartments, University Club Towers). The only other safe place to cross is at 21st, or to walk over the bridge and then cross traffic at 21st and Boulder. Crossing at Denver is hopeless and confusing and you can't see the northbound traffic where Riverside connects at the bend to Denver.
In this design, people crossing at 19th will walk through the parking lot to get to the street.
I'm not saying this is a terrible solution, or that it's Tom's job to fix an existing problem. But there certainly needs to be a better way to access the park from the east side of Riverside for those that don't drive there. In fact this is a problem all along Riverside, there are few pedestrian crossings.
Also, Tulsa drivers don't comprehend that right on red means you have to stop first, not barrel through the crosswalk at full speed, as happens probably 50% of the time I try and cross Riverside at Denver. And Tulsa cops don't seem to care to enforce that. They could send somebody out to that crosswalk and write big tickets for people nearly nailing pedestrians all day.
I cannot comprehend how we don't have any type of connection between the river trails and the bike route leading into Brookside (at 33rd, 34th, somewhere in there). That's a perfect way to get from downtown to Brookside on bike. But there's no path from the trail to the bike route and more importantly, no signal to help pedestrians and cyclists cross riverside there. It's a frightening experience, trying to dodge four lanes of 45 mph traffic to cross the street.
Quote from: TheTed on September 04, 2009, 12:44:39 PM
Also, Tulsa drivers don't comprehend that right on red means you have to stop first, not barrel through the crosswalk at full speed, as happens probably 50% of the time I try and cross Riverside at Denver. And Tulsa cops don't seem to care to enforce that. They could send somebody out to that crosswalk and write big tickets for people nearly nailing pedestrians all day.
I cannot comprehend how we don't have any type of connection between the river trails and the bike route leading into Brookside (at 33rd, 34th, somewhere in there). That's a perfect way to get from downtown to Brookside on bike. But there's no path from the trail to the bike route and more importantly, no signal to help pedestrians and cyclists cross riverside there. It's a frightening experience, trying to dodge four lanes of 45 mph traffic to cross the street.
I think the ped bridge, 21st St. and 11th St. are considered our connectors. I'd love to see a ped flyover at 36th, but I don't think that's ever going to happen. It's too close to the existing ped bridge and the light at 41st. It would be deemed as "un-needed"
It's out of the way, but the way I go is take the old RR bed from the ped bridge at 31st back around to where 26th(ish) crosses the trail in Maple Ridge, get off there and go down Cincinnatti and take the bike route marked streets back to Brookside. It's out of the way, but I'll ride an extra mile or two rather than risk being mowed down crossing a busy street w/o a light or stop sign.
No I guess I meant north west, about a block and a half away from rivers edge, right across from the nursing home and apartments.
Not that it really matters, its just a small amount of green space. On a related note, does anyone know if they have plans for bike racks for people to park there bikes so they can go in and eat if they want.
Quote from: Conan71 on September 04, 2009, 12:28:57 PM
Carlton, whatever happened to earning money for, aquiring, and drinking beer being your only concerns in life?
Dang it, I hate it when I get sidetracked. >:( Got to make up for lost time now.
I think they should do something about that Rivebank erroision, the longer they let it go the worse it will get. The bad part I seen is just south of the new playground, the errosion is only a few feet from the new jogging trail. The Riverbank by the playground is protected and parts of it are cemented so the playground is safe from errosion but not other areas. In fact the riverbank by the playground area is fixed up nice people even can go fishing there, elsewhere there is steep drop-offs and major errosion. :-X
Quote from: sauerkraut on October 02, 2009, 10:24:10 AM
I think they should do something about that Rivebank erroision, the longer they let it go the worse it will get. The bad part I seen is just south of the new playground, the errosion is only a few feet from the new jogging trail. The Riverbank by the playground is protected and parts of it are cemented so the playground is safe from errosion but not other areas. In fact the riverbank by the playground area is fixed up nice people even can go fishing there, elsewhere there is steep drop-offs and major errosion. :-X
You already crapped this on another thread.
Stop crapping.
So there is erosion 2 miles south of the new restaurant on Riverside? I hope they halt construction before it head north two miles . . .
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 02, 2009, 11:20:20 AM
So there is erosion 2 miles south of the new restaurant on Riverside? I hope they halt construction before it head north two miles . . .
I'm kind of worried about catching the gay from the erosion, aren't you?
Quote from: Conan71 on October 02, 2009, 11:57:25 AM
I'm kind of worried about catching the gay from the erosion, aren't you?
May be too late, my in-laws saw your pictures on FB and asked "who that gay guy was."
Quote from: sgrizzle on October 02, 2009, 01:41:14 PM
May be too late, my in-laws saw your pictures on FB and asked "who that gay guy was."
I'm so confused. One week I'm accused of being a flaming hetero, the next, I've caught the gay. I'm worried I may turn out asexual from all the influences.
I'm in Tulsa this week and Saturday afternoon I did a quick run on the RiverSide Trail and noticed they fixed alot of the riverbank damage, one hole was even filled in with dirt and new sod. They dumped big rocks on the bank. There was alot of damage there. It's looking good.
Quote from: sauerkraut on October 25, 2009, 02:19:31 PM
I'm in Tulsa this week and Saturday afternoon ...
So if we set up a forum lunch you will show up and confirm your identity?
Quote from: sgrizzle on October 26, 2009, 07:25:12 AM
So if we set up a forum lunch you will show up and confirm your identity?
Bated breath...