I've driven by the refineries back and forth to work for almost 7 years now. There's always been a smell.
I noticed yesterday the smell is much worse. It stayed in my car with the windows down and and the sunroof open all the way downtown to 5th and Boston.
The smell was still there this morning as I drove by. Not just a smell...a stick to your ribs, melt your face off kind of smell.
Anyone have any idea what the heck is going on there?
What you smell is two refineries, a waste to energy plant, a toxic waste disposal facility and a wastewater treatment plant and power plant to the south. I've noticed the wastewater plant being particularly pungent and the windows have been quite strong out of the south most mornings.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
What you smell is two refineries, a waste to energy plant, a toxic waste disposal facility and a wastewater treatment plant and power plant to the south. I've noticed the wastewater plant being particularly pungent and the windows have been quite strong out of the south most mornings.
as opposed to weak windows out of the north?
This smell obviously doesn't cover all of downtown. I never smell it.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
What you smell is two refineries, a waste to energy plant, a toxic waste disposal facility and a wastewater treatment plant and power plant to the south. I've noticed the wastewater plant being particularly pungent and the windows have been quite strong out of the south most mornings.
This is new. A considerable increase in olfactory overload. I'm familiar with the other odors...this is refinery. I know some people say they smell money but damn...these are some freakin' heinous Benjamins.
If it is a new smell, it is probably the hax-waste processing facility Permafix.
i smelled it as well.
it smelled like fertilizer to me, so it was possibly nitrogen? whatever it was i got a big mouthful of it on our evening walk. I accidentially gasped suddenly through my mouth for some reason and this horrible taste stuck in my throat for a few hours after. fantastic.
Smeller's the feller!
If you smelt it, you dealt it!
That's my 4th grade input.
But seriously. . .What you are smelling is mercaptan. Our refinery removes t-butyl mercaptan from the petroleum and packages it to be sold and added to natural gas so that you can smell it.
I've been around a small vile of t-butyl mercaptan, and at a distance it's enough to knock you on the ground. If you were to lean over and take a full nostril sniff, I think you would probably pass out.
It's a very important product. It is used in plastics, paints, adhesives and other "coating industry" products. We have several industries here in Tulsa that rely on the production of mercaptan in one form or another, and we ship the stuff all over the world.
It's used in many pharmaceuticals and in it's altered states it is even used in food products.
It is so vile to our senses because we are genetically programmed to fear it. Mercaptan is the smell created by rotting flesh, and our minds naturally associate it with death. This makes it an excellent "attention getter," and this is why it is added to natural gas, rather than say hyacinth.
I grew up here and its the same old refinery smell. One of these days people will really deal with the fact that Tulsa stinks.
If you can smell it, it's going into your body.
I know one refinery has promised improvements that will supposedly decrease the smell, but based on their past record, I am not hopeful.
Hey, does anyone know anything about Sunoco being converted to a terminal instead of a refinery? This sounds like a dramatic development but I haven't seen any explanation in the local paper of what a terminal is or anything addressing the pros and cons of a terminal.
Question, would a terminal lessen or increase the smell in Tulsa?
Thanks Gaspar
Probably another discharge from the hazardous waste disposal plant at 20th & SW Blvd.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7050
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
Smeller's the feller!
If you smelt it, you dealt it!
That's my 4th grade input.
He who articulated it, particulated it
Last night it smelled like refinery, not hazardous waste.
As I crossed the 23rd St bridge there was enough of a north wind to make me think most likely it was coming from the "Mid Continent" Refinery.
Years ago I worked not far from Borg metals on N. Lewis and they cut up a tank that had been used to contain natural gas "odorant." The entire neighborhood was fragrant for days.
People coming into our office would ask if there was a gas leak. We would just light up a cigarette and say, "Naah, nothin' to worry about."
That's the smell of money.
That's the smell of the bases of our local economy.
Deal with it.
quote:
Originally posted by unreliablesource
That's the smell of money.
That's the smell of the bases of our local economy.
Deal with it.
That's the smell of bladder cancer.
That's the smell of lung cancer.
That's the smell of Cancer Treatment Centers of America.
That's how we deal with it.
It smells like Victory.
Oh wait, no. That's what Napalm burning in the morning smells like.
When I got home Monday night I thought something was dead in my front yard. 41st Utica area
When I went to the grocery store 41st Peoria the death smell was down there too.
I hear that Houston stinks too.
The fact that we stink is sort of like a family secret that no one in power really acknowledges or addresses.
Add "Eliminate Odor" to Tulsa's very, very long "to do list."
If you're ever hiking Turkey Mtn. you get a heavy dose of the wastewater treatment plant on the northside.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I hear that Houston stinks too.
The fact that we stink is sort of like a family secret that no one in power really acknowledges or addresses.
Add "Eliminate Odor" to Tulsa's very, very long "to do list."
Any city with heavy industry "stinks". Cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. have similar smells from their factories. The refinery smell is probably one of the worst though. It really depends on the wind. Where I used to live in Norman was near the waste treatment plant and it smelled really bad sometimes and other times not at all. Sometimes you can even smell that thing on the OU campus when it's particularly bad.
The paper mills in the Northwest smell terrible. They call it the aroma of Tacoma.
Maybe we could turn into a positive. Not sure how to cast the cancer deaths claimed in earlier neighborhood lawsuits in a positive light though.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
The paper mills in the Northwest smell terrible. They call it the aroma of Tacoma.
Tulsa-sized Green Bay makes a lot of toilet paper, and from the smell it would seem they test it there, as well.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
The paper mills in the Northwest smell terrible. They call it the aroma of Tacoma.
Tulsa-sized Green Bay makes a lot of toilet paper, and from the smell it would seem they test it there, as well.
Rhinelander, WI has a paper mill. The smell is impressive and the snow within blocks of the place is bright yellow from the sulfur...no eating that snow either.
Back in Tulsa the smell from the refinery was significantly reduced last night and this morning.
Probably just the wind direction.
Every time the weather changes you get a good whiff of it at 17th and Southwest Blvd.
I hike at Turkey Mountain a lot and while I have caught an occasional whiff of sewage, certainly it is not "always" and it has never been a pungent smell.
Refineries and sewer plants stink.
Paper mills stink in Southwest Oklahoma as well as they do in the NW or northern Minnesota.
Quaker Oats in Cedar Rapids Iowa has a weird stink to it.
Breweries can stink.
Slaughterhouses and tanneries (always next to each other), better believe they stink.
Now the McCokrmick spice factory in Ankeny Iowa, now that is something we should attract downtown. Love that place. You can smell it from I-35 even. Tax breaks for good smelling industries!
Bakeries
Spice plants
Flower greenhouses (on the roofs downtown!)
Commercial meat smoke houses
Coffee mill
Cedar wood-chip factory
Yep. A whole new direction.
Mercaptans stink. That's it. They have never been linked to any cancer or other ailment other than perhaps headache from the odor.
They are naturally occurring sulfur compounds. Our brains and the brains of many mammals are wired to associate them with "disgust" as a mechanism to avoid disease, decay, spoiled food, and death.
They stink. Deal with it. It's part of living in a city with industry. I have yet to find one without sights or smells that are objectionable.
We used to roll down our windows when we drove past the Wonder Bread Bakery on Sheridan.
Then there are those drivers you don't see but you smell. You know the car has already passed you then the smell catches up.
There was a neighborhood of shops owned by folks from India and the East Indies in Manhattan. What incredible spicy delicious strong smells.
Then there's Tulsa and her refineries. Old Stinky herself.
I have yet to live in a city that Stinks as much as Tulsa -- other than Tulsa. No one else has gotten close. Havn't lived in Houston or Love Canal, but lots of other places and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here. It's a little silly to try and dismiss it.
The refinery/toxic smells are always worst on very calm days. On windy days the odors disperse...or, at least, blow on someone else. On very calm days, the chemicals seem to hover over an increasingly large area. (Starting west of the river, then settling in the river "valley," and wafting up hill from there.)
The other morning, I could smell it at 41st and Harvard! (This is very rare thing.)
I used to live near the river, and there were times I would wake up at 2:00 AM b/c of the smell and have to close the windows. I am certain that some industries are "belching" out products at night that they would never process during the day.
I've heard that the EPA has regulations about "visible emmissions." It's like the old question about trees falling in the forest... If you pollute at night and nobody's there to see/smell/test it...
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I hike at Turkey Mountain a lot
Is Mrs. Fodder aware of that?
lol, from what I have seen it appears the "after hours" homosexual activity has moved to Mohawk park. We were out there for a night hike for the full moon a couple weeks ago and just after dark there were many, many cars coming and going from various parking lots. But no hikers. Seemed odd.
Anyway, generally I'm hiking WITH Mrs. Fodder.
HOMETOWN:
Feedlots smell oh-my-god so much worse than anything in Tulsa. Drive by Amrillo sometime. DEAR GOD!
Not sure where you live, but I have lived in the midtown area for 6 years, worked downtown, and worked near the airport and there are no mal odors in my day to day life. About three times a year you can smell the refineries in downtown Tulsa. Other than that nothing really.
I'm from Iowa. "Farm" smells generally are not that offensive to me and I would not be desensitized to sulfur/oil smells. But those feed lots are overpowering.
Where are you smelling these noxious smells constantly in Tulsa? I've even been to friends houses in River West Apartments very frequently and usually don't notice anything noxious. Some days it is I readily admit, but generally it is noticeable but not noxious by any stretch.
I'm really perplexed. I've never had any visitors make such comments and I've never had such notions myself. Perhaps you are overly sensitive to sulfur smells or live in a bad location for odor?
- - -
PonderInc:
As far as I am aware the EPA standards are three fold: peak emissions at any given time, daily emissions, and annual emissions. You can not at any time put out more than X parts for Billion of Y. In a day you can not release Z. And annually you will be fined if you discharge more than W. (not an emissions expert, but that is my understanding)
At night it could be that there is usually less wind AND cool air can cause "heavy air" to force things to ground level. Thus, if you lived near said offenders there would be more odor and indeed more pollutant in your area.
OR... they are trying to cheat on their emissions.
One time, I got tired of waking up to the stink, so I called the Oklahoma Dept of Environmental Quality at about 2 or 3 am. The bureaucrat who answered the phone acted quite annoyed that I wanted to file a complaint. She kept trying to talk me out of it...guess she didn't want to do any paperwork.
Finally, she entered my complaint. They sent a guy to test the air the next day. (several hours after sunrise), when the winds had kicked back up and dispersed the chemicals that caused the smell.
I live in the NW Quadrant and work downtown. There are days I don't notice anything and weeks when it goes on all week. When I was growing up in Lortondale I never smelled it.
Mohawk, huh? Must be the born again crowd driving in from Denial, Oklahoma. Fighting nature every step of the way. Don't you just wish they would own up to it and have their fun in private?
Hey, I've read about air quality testing that groups or individuals can do on their own. I don't trust anyone in authority around here to stand up against the refineries.
You may have heard of the Smokestack Effect (//%22http://content.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/smokestack/index%22)...a report by USA Today on the air quality at schools throughout the nation.
According to the report (//%22http://content.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/smokestack/index%22), "the exposure to toxic chemicals in the air outside some schools appears so high that students could be at risk of suffering a range of ailments, from asthma to cancer."
The USA TODAY report shows a map of schools with the worst air (//%22http://content.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/smokestack/interactive/4%22). Guess what? There were 3 schools in Oklahoma...all were in Sand Springs. "Analysis of EPA data indicated the air outside these schools had the highest levels of dangerous toxic chemicals, most of which have never been tested for their effects on children."
Weird smell sets off probe (//%22http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/school-air-hitchens.htm%22)
You can also filter the list of schools nationwide by name, county (//%22http://content.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/smokestack/search/OK/~/tulsa/~/rank/~/1/%22), or state. Interesting to see how Tulsa area schools rank. In this list, you don't want to be in the 1st percentile!
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
The paper mills in the Northwest smell terrible. They call it the aroma of Tacoma.
Not to mention the paper mills in the Southeast. There's a reason Meatwad from ATHF said a bad smell "smells like Louisiana". I used to live in Savannah, GA, and when the wind would come from the NW, the whole town would be choked by the horrible odor.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have yet to live in a city that Stinks as much as Tulsa -- other than Tulsa. No one else has gotten close. Havn't lived in Houston or Love Canal, but lots of other places and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here. It's a little silly to try and dismiss it.
Move to Montgomery, AL, Savannah, GA, Ashdown (Assdown), AR, or any other town with a paper mill and you'll realize that Tulsa doesn't smell bad at all for a city.
I smelled the offensive odor all over Brookside. If it's the same odor you all are referring to, it smelled to me kind of like broccoli or cauliflower or some other noxious vegetable cooking (I hate the smell of most vegetables).
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have yet to live in a city that Stinks as much as Tulsa -- other than Tulsa. No one else has gotten close. Havn't lived in Houston or Love Canal, but lots of other places and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here. It's a little silly to try and dismiss it.
OH WOW!
quote:
and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here.
That's quite a statement. I've been to the stockyards in several states and there is absolutely nothing to compare. NOTHING.
Some of the larger Kansas feed lots can be smelled from as far as 20 miles away.
Upwind of the brewery in St. Lewis can tie your gut into a knot (literally smells like vomit).
Even our sewage treatment plant up north is mild compared with most.
New Orleans in the spring is an odor that takes about 3 days to get used to (the river turns over).
Don't know what you've got against Houston. I spend several weeks a year there and find it very clean and relatively odor free.
I think Tulsa smells great!
If our industries put out objectionable odors than that's something they need to work on, but to say that we're the worst is a huge stretch.
Or Dodge City, Liberal, or Garden City, Kansas. You can literally smell the stockyards of Dodge 5 miles before you get there.
Hey, we look okay compared to worst stinkholes of the planet. That's really reassuring. Personally I look up not down when searching for comparisons.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have yet to live in a city that Stinks as much as Tulsa -- other than Tulsa. No one else has gotten close. Havn't lived in Houston or Love Canal, but lots of other places and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here. It's a little silly to try and dismiss it.
OH WOW!
quote:
and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here.
That's quite a statement. I've been to the stockyards in several states and there is absolutely nothing to compare. NOTHING.
Some of the larger Kansas feed lots can be smelled from as far as 20 miles away.
Upwind of the brewery in St. Lewis can tie your gut into a knot (literally smells like vomit).
Even our sewage treatment plant up north is mild compared with most.
New Orleans in the spring is an odor that takes about 3 days to get used to (the river turns over).
Don't know what you've got against Houston. I spend several weeks a year there and find it very clean and relatively odor free.
I think Tulsa smells great!
If our industries put out objectionable odors than that's something they need to work on, but to say that we're the worst is a huge stretch.
Worst that I've experienced. I haven't lived next to the sewage plant in Calcutta yet.
Hey I'm convinced other places stink.
Your statement, "If our industries put out objectionable odors than that's something they need to work on," is an understatement and movement in the right direction.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Mohawk, huh? Must be the born again crowd driving in from Denial, Oklahoma. Fighting nature every step of the way. Don't you just wish they would own up to it and have their fun in private?
I suppose. Perhaps there are no good slut-ridden gay bars in Tulsa (equivalent to whatever the find-a-slut hetero bars are in Tulsa). I really have no idea.
All I know is when I used to work out that way I would occasionally do lunch at the Mohawk and several times single men would drive up to my parked car and say hello (or followed my usually slow moving car [lunch-day drive as it were] until I parked). An awkward conversation ensued and then they left puzzled. At first I thought it was just a strange conversation, replaying it in my head I thought otherwise.
Same deal with the cars at night. 2 or 3 cars/vans at random parking lots. 5 or 10 back by Oxley. But we never saw another hiker in the entire park. Just seemed strange.
I could, of course, be totally misconstruing it with a false notion in my head. Like I said, we never saw anyone out of the cars. So I guess whoever it was and whatever they were doing was relatively private... no harm no foul.
Or maybe Oklahoma has gotten to me and I've become a closet homophobe afraid of catching the gay. [;)] Who knows, but I'd be interested in hearing what the real deal is.
There is more than Mercaptan floating out of refineries. I spent a fair amount of time working in one in Lake Charles, La. The different smells are pretty distinctive. The workers learn to associate certain sounds and certain smells with upsets in the processes. Its a self preservation skill. They can even tell where the crude is coming from.
The stockyards area in OKC has a mighty powerful smell. One wonders if your health is being impacted there. But there is no wondering about the smells from a refinery or an injection well being dangerous. Check the lifespans of their workers and their general health. Workers who were in their 40's looked to be near 60. Hell, look at your patio furniture that's left uncovered all year long. That blackish grunge that won't wash off settled from the same air you breath.
ODEQ is subject to political pressure. I don't know if the odors emanating from the Westside are causing the increase in bladder cancers North of the river that Urban Tulsa reported years ago. Neither does anyone else. Seems curious to me that their research didn't trigger a study by larger, more creditable entities. Instead a lot of energy was put into discrediting the story and the publication.
Its foolish to deny they exist. The smells are real, though not all that frequent. They are varied, seasonal and very subject to wind and rain. The one constant is the direction of the wind or lack thereof. Some people are more sensitive to them than others. In fact, after I worked at the refinery for a few weeks, I didn't smell them much any more.
Trouble is, no one around here has documented what effect they are having.
BTW, my suggestion CF is to invite Godiva or Hershey's to town.[8D]
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have yet to live in a city that Stinks as much as Tulsa -- other than Tulsa. No one else has gotten close. Havn't lived in Houston or Love Canal, but lots of other places and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here. It's a little silly to try and dismiss it.
I find the smell of cow **** dust to be much more offensive than anything coming out of the refineries. Perhaps the refinery effluent will kill me, but at least I won't die smelling ****.
The smell of Edmond grosses me out...dog food. Purina has a plant there. I think I'd rather smell the refinery than that God-awful smell. [xx(]
You have to admit all those noxious smells and chemicals in the air sure make for some pretty sunrise/sunsets....[:I]
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Or Dodge City, Liberal, or Garden City, Kansas. You can literally smell the stockyards of Dodge 5 miles before you get there.
+1 on Dodge City. Now I know where the phrase "let's get the **** out of Dodge" comes from.
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have yet to live in a city that Stinks as much as Tulsa -- other than Tulsa. No one else has gotten close. Havn't lived in Houston or Love Canal, but lots of other places and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here. It's a little silly to try and dismiss it.
Move to Montgomery, AL, Savannah, GA, Ashdown (Assdown), AR, or any other town with a paper mill and you'll realize that Tulsa doesn't smell bad at all for a city.
There used to be a paper mill up north of Pensacola and when the wind was just right, we could smell that place 40 miles away. It was gag inducing. The smell from across the river is nowhere near as bad as that was. Especially when it was combined with the Chemstrand plant and the Air Chemicals plant at the same time.
You guys are proving my point that Tulsans suffer from low self esteem. You are telling me that being stinky is okay because we are not the worst smelling place on the planet. I mean, that is no consolation for me.
I suggest you read Waterboy's post above. He has nailed the course ahead.
Cannon, You must be one fine Papi. Yes, sounds like you are being cruised.
There are a number of very nice gay bars in Tulsa but public sex is a category unto itself. I'm not sure what the correct stance on public sex is. Obviously, it's not all born agains since it happens everywhere, I imagine all around the globe. I guess the general public should be able to go into a park or a public facility without being concerned about seeing public sex.
You know, I've seen it on crowded public buses, in cars in parking lots, in town squares in full moon light. My neighborhood, Reservoir Hill, was well known as a parking spot for Straight Tulsans. I have to believe that it didn't all stop at heavy petting.
One of the things that jumps out at you in Mexico are all the couples in public places kissing.
There used to be a gay publication called Mark Damon's Gay Guide that listed cruisy areas around the U.S. When I was a teenager here there was a gay cruise drive through downtown town that went past the YMCA, the greyhound bus station and a Holiday Inn. Hustlers would put on their white jeans and walk around until some gay picked them up.
Oops, sorry, off topic.
Back to stinky ....
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have yet to live in a city that Stinks as much as Tulsa -- other than Tulsa. No one else has gotten close. Havn't lived in Houston or Love Canal, but lots of other places and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here. It's a little silly to try and dismiss it.
I did live in Houston for three years and Houston by far is the worst-smelling city I've been to/lived in. Wichita is a close second. LA never 'stunk', but I found it hard to breath the brief time I was there.
And you're making it sound with your last statement as if your absolving Tulsa from the smell, because, like Ft. Worth, the refinery smell in Tulsa is not widespread, just as the water treatment odor isn't widespread. The refineries have been there a long time; my dad worked at one for 20 years, and my grandfather at the same one for 25. The only time I remember the refineries making it smell bad is if the wind was strong out of the west (doesn't happen often).
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Hustlers would put on their white jeans and walk around...
We only wore white after Easter and before Labor Day.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I have yet to live in a city that Stinks as much as Tulsa -- other than Tulsa. No one else has gotten close. Havn't lived in Houston or Love Canal, but lots of other places and yes, the stockyards in Ft. Worth had a certain odor but nothing as widespread or as noxious as here. It's a little silly to try and dismiss it.
Try Decatur, Ill. Nothing like the aroma of processed soybeans for miles around.
The worst, by far, is the cattle feed lots near Wilderado, Texas, just off I-40 near Amarillo. I grew up on a farm, but that smell will just about knock you over every time you pass it.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
You guys are proving my point that Tulsans suffer from low self esteem. You are telling me that being stinky is okay because we are not the worst smelling place on the planet. I mean, that is no consolation for me.
I'm not a native Tulsan, or an Oklahoman for that matter.
But I've lived a lot of places in my life, and seldom do you live in an area in which the air smells like a Rocky Mountain breeze or whatever baseless cliche you have in mind.
If you live in a city of any size, there's a very good chance that you'll encounter an area where heavy manufacturing is going on, and that something there is gonna stink.
I'm just glad the EPA rules took root about 35 years ago. Those who complain about pollution now have short memories about how bad it truly was a generation ago. I distinctly remember going into St. Louis during the early '70s and seeing the brown haze hanging a few hundred feet in the air. Now, such "haze days" no longer exist. We can certainly get better, but it's a dramatic improvement to what it was.
Hell, even if you grew up in the country (like I did), your nostrils are going to be assaulted periodically by rivers and lakes turning over.
Waterboy said, "Trouble is, no one around here has documented what effect they are having."
Waterboy I have a feeling that the only way this will ever get resolved is if someone here in Tulsa makes it their "life mission" to fully test the environmental effect of our refineries.
I don't see government resolving the issue unless someone forces them to do so.