Ouch. :(
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090106_11_0_TheTul258499
I am really getting worried now!
My primary concern: is Eric Bailey still employed there?
Anytime a paper cuts back it cuts back on its content. Which cuts back on its readership. Which cuts back on its ad revenue. A horrible spiral.
Too many local papers are AP wire conduits only. I can read the wire online just fine. My interest is in local reporting: TU Sports coverage, development, crime reporting, local government. LOCAL things that other sources don't spend the resources to dig up.
I hope that coverage doesn't suffer.
My mother and wife were both reporters at one time in their life. There is life after working at the newspaper.
I hope each of the workers find employment soon.
"Based on the response of our readers, Tulsa World has elected to disable comments for this article."
I can't even begin to fathom the comments made by the ogres in the Tulsa World Comment universe.
I heard that the Lortons were heavily invested into buying another newspaper earlier this year (likely why they cut back in March) and were close to completing the sale when the economy tanked. Now they can't secure the financing and can't complete the sale which hurt them.
Also, they had upped the individual paper cost and upped the pay to their box route carriers (retail stores and vending machines) in response to gas prices, then gas prices subsided. That had to also hurt.
As far as less advertising, that is untrue. There were more end-of-year sales ads this year than previous years. They may be predicting less advertising early in '09 but the first part of the year is always low on advertising revenue for papers.
I wonder how long it'll take before there is no more print version of the Tulsa World.
My dad was one of the casualties this time, and I lost my job when they shut down Community almost a year ago. This is a lot of displaced journalists. I really hope there are enough PR/writing/burger flipping jobs to go around.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
My primary concern: is Eric Bailey still employed there?
Anytime a paper cuts back it cuts back on its content. Which cuts back on its readership. Which cuts back on its ad revenue. A horrible spiral.
Too many local papers are AP wire conduits only. I can read the wire online just fine. My interest is in local reporting: TU Sports coverage, development, crime reporting, local government. LOCAL things that other sources don't spend the resources to dig up.
I hope that coverage doesn't suffer.
+1
They have an agenda, a lot of people don't like that agenda, and they sometimes get some things wrong. But bottom line, a locally owned paper is a good thing for a city like Tulsa and we should be thankful for the World and its resources. There isn't a better source for local information in terms of depth and consistency.
Another board that I follow from time to time had a poster from El Paso who asked about the former TPS superintendent -- they just hired him. Their local paper didn't even do the legwork to figure out how much he was disliked here, which at a minimum would have taken a Google search. That is a paper that is no longer locally owned and, in theory, lacks the interest in quality, in-depth reporting.
Furthermore, it's just bad to lose jobs like this (even if they aren't the best paying) because they keep and attract talented people in Tulsa.
And I have the same thoughts on Bailey and I also hope Trammel still is there for years to come. Now if Dave Sittler found a pink slip in his hotel in Miami this morning, I wouldn't shed too many tears. [;)]
I wouldn't mind if the grumpy old guy on the front page of the editorial section retired.
Anybody heard any names yet?
Question and comment:
Question: sgrizzle. What other paper? Local? Another city?
Comment: It might not be a bad arrangement for Tulsa if the Daily Oklahoman or the Dallas Morning News had a good sized Tulsa Bureau generating local content for a Tulsa edition.
I grew up with the Tulsa World but in all honesty I think she has had a negative net impact on Tulsa. She is the voice piece and the apologist for the Good Old Boys that have put Tulsa in her current predicament.
Another city, although I haven't been able to find out which city it was.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Comment: It might not be a bad arrangement for Tulsa if the Daily Oklahoman or the Dallas Morning News had a good sized Tulsa Bureau generating local content for a Tulsa edition.
No thanks! The Daily Oklahoman is constantly called the worst newspaper in America. Not really something that I would want here in Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Comment: It might not be a bad arrangement for Tulsa if the Daily Oklahoman or the Dallas Morning News had a good sized Tulsa Bureau generating local content for a Tulsa edition.
No thanks! The Daily Oklahoman is constantly called the worst newspaper in America. Not really something that I would want here in Tulsa.
Agreed. I can't STAND The Daily Oklahoman.
I've Never Seen the Daily Oklahoman. Worst paper. I believe you. But I have to say that the Tulsa World is pretty rank as papers go.
If Tulsa really wants to change she is going to need to change some major players.
Major new money in town would upset the apple cart. Walton, et cetera.
Losing the Tulsa World would too.
Otherwise it's the same old crowd doing the same old thing as time passes us by.
The company town that lost the company.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
My mother and wife were both reporters at one time in their life. There is life after working at the newspaper.
I can vouch for that, Michael. I was a reporter once ... ONCE! [/johnny dangerously reference] I think I even talked to you a time or two, but that was many moons ago.
"Real" jobs aren't nearly as fun, but in my experience the hours, benefits and pay have been better, generally speaking.
Still, it sucks to have your livelihood and career jerked out from under you. My thoughts go out to everybody affected.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
well, the upside is that the new website will be even faster now that there is less content to load
LoL...to be honest, I get a lot of my city info here (//%22http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/%22)!
Eric Bailey just came on 1430 AM . . . as a TW reporter. Think he's still employed there.
To say the Tulsa World is the best paper we have, when it's the only paper we have, is too bad.
When the Tulsa Tribune was here, it was a much better paper, but because of their mutual agreement with the World, which the World terminated, the Tribune died a quick death after many years of service.
Ever since then, the Tulsa World has gone down hill horribly. I find them unethical. The last straw for me was with their involvement in Great Plains Airlines. You could read how many articles and never see one by-line that said the Tulsa World was actively involved (and partially owned the airline, if I remember correctly)? Sorry folks, but that is basic journalism.
Since they lost their competition, they allowed their standards to deteriorate.
I know many people who work there and find them great people, but question how some of them choose to run a newspaper. Until they decide to take a different approach to reporting the news (like trying to stay neutral), I'll take USAToday.
The word at the State Capitol press room, where I worked 40 years ago with UPI, is that mick hinton and tom lindley were terminated today, leaving only barbara hoberock.
i heard one guy was there for 35 years. sounds like they are getting all the people close to retirement.
interesting that recently they got rid of in house security and outsourced that to Securitas, all the old guys that manned the front desk were canned and had to reapply at Securitas, and of course securitas wouldn't hire them because they were too old and couldn't pass a physical.
I guess TW is cutting away the chaff.
they need to Cut that rUNT PJ Lassek.
So, if they let go 26 news staff, how many are left?
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little
So, if they let go 26 news staff, how many are left?
they have a LOT, but it sounds like they made a huge cut (closed?) the capital bureau.
Apparently the World didn't close their capitol bureau, but as I mentioned above, they apparently terminated 2 of their 3 capitol reporters. That's a very serious cut. I worked for UPI at the capitol 40 years ago, and even then it required at least two people to cover the capitol -- one for the state senate, and one for the state house. The World won't be able to do anywhere as good a job if they only have one capitol reporter. It doesn't bode well for an informed electorate, although they will be able to get by, using AP stories from the capitol.
Inteller...
It's unfortunate that such a knowledgable individual such as yourself, who has expressed many a great opinion on here in the past, lowered yourself to such a standard as to attack a TW writer personally and using such a blatant and vulgar term in the process. You may have been trying to be clever in your way of expressing your dislike of PJ Lassek, using your little capitalized letters and such, but your post only demonstrates how simple minded and distasteful some can be on here when there is no reason or justification for it. I would think this is a forum in which educated, well intentioned individuals can express their ideas, concerns and opinions in order to engage in dialogue about news and events happening around and effecting us.
I have had the opportunity to meet PJ Lassek several times over the last couple of years and while I do not agree with everything PJ Lassek writes, I do understand that most times she is subject to the review of her editors and must leave certain information out of articles. She is a woman simply performing her job, if you have a personal beef with her, you should keep it just that, personal.
The loss of any jobs in Tulsa hurts us all and the start of this post was to inform its readership of such. We should be asking ourselves what can be done to help those whose jobs were terminated today and offering suggestions to them on here instead of using it to berate, name call and attack an individual that could have just as easily been victim to this job loss as well.
I would certianly hope others within this forum would not take a liking to your posting either...it speaks ill of the type of people Tulsa has come to be known by - people that are caring and sincere, particularly when their neighbors are in need. We lead best by example and your's sir is not the example I want to be reading in this fine forum and sharing with those I want to encourage to move here.
quote:
Originally posted by DowntownNow
Inteller...
It's unfortunate that such a knowledgable individual such as yourself, who has expressed many a great opinion on here in the past, lowered yourself to such a standard as to attack a TW writer personally and using such a blatant and vulgar term in the process. You may have been trying to be clever in your way of expressing your dislike of PJ Lassek, using your little capitalized letters and such, but your post only demonstrates how simple minded and distasteful some can be on here when there is no reason or justification for it. I would think this is a forum in which educated, well intentioned individuals can express their ideas, concerns and opinions in order to engage in dialogue about news and events happening around and effecting us.
I have had the opportunity to meet PJ Lassek several times over the last couple of years and while I do not agree with everything PJ Lassek writes, I do understand that most times she is subject to the review of her editors and must leave certain information out of articles. She is a woman simply performing her job, if you have a personal beef with her, you should keep it just that, personal.
The loss of any jobs in Tulsa hurts us all and the start of this post was to inform its readership of such. We should be asking ourselves what can be done to help those whose jobs were terminated today and offering suggestions to them on here instead of using it to berate, name call and attack an individual that could have just as easily been victim to this job loss as well.
I would certianly hope others within this forum would not take a liking to your posting either...it speaks ill of the type of people Tulsa has come to be known by - people that are caring and sincere, particularly when their neighbors are in need. We lead best by example and your's sir is not the example I want to be reading in this fine forum and sharing with those I want to encourage to move here.
hey, it is your perogative if you want to support a shill for the mayor who presents half the story or issues hired gun stories. The beef I have is with her reporting (or lack thereof rather). When people think about all that is wrong with TW and its biased stances on various issues, I think of her reporting. You can't sit there smugly at your keyboard and write off that all those hired gun articles were done by the editors. Take her and The Pi---er I mean Cronley and eshew with them and the TW would immediately become a better paper.
I disagree with you inteller.
I think that the city hall reporters do a good job. It is one of the hardest beats to cover. This was the same job my mother and wife had when they were reporters. You want to get the facts correct, but need to build relationships for access, while dealing with red tape bureaucrats and egotistical power hungry elected officials, and all the while hearing from editors who want the story to read a certain way.
PJ Lassek and Brian Barber both are constantly at city meetings I attend and I am surprised at how often they get the officials to comment on topics. They have the perfect demeanor to get the right quote for the right story. That is a real knack.
Compare the amount of news coverage the Tulsa World gives to city hall business to the coverage of county and state issues. You will see that these reporters are cranking out story after story to keep us readers informed.
I will agree that the Tulsa World has an agenda. I don't blame them. There has also been power in media. They piss me off on a regular basis, but then win back my admiration when they do things like raise $400,000 for needy families during Christmas.
Newspaper have always had a bad reputation. Mark Twain said, "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed." I don't think that The Tulsa World does a bad job of informing me, I just don't stop getting my information from them before making up my own mind.
"egotistical power hungry elected officials"
Yeah she has quite the rapport with them. But now I think she suffers from Stockholm Syndrome. Here is a perfect example:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090104_11_A1_MayorK998412
The title of this article was "Leaders organize stimulus requests"
So, based off of that I look at the article to see what various leaders had to say about it.
Only problem is after a quick blurb about the vague parties involved it is Taylor this Taylor that Taylor blah and Taylor blat....only at the end of the article did she stop licking Taylor's boot to see that the BA city manager had something to say. Then it was more Taylor, Taylor, Taylor....seven paragraphs started with "Taylor". What did Tulsa County have to say? What did the other "municipal officials" have to say?
Typical Lassek mayor shill article.
So your real problem is with positive coverage about Mayor Tayor. Have you ever said anything nice about her?
You don't like a certain reporter because she doesn't attack people you don't like.
Face it, inteller, you don't like many things.
You have spent months attacking almost every restaurant, elected official and TulsaNow posters on this forum. The fact that you don't like something that most do says volumes about your self-worth.
I feel sad for you. Read all about it.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
So your real problem is with positive coverage about Mayor Tayor. Have you ever said anything nice about her?
You don't like a certain reporter because she doesn't attack people you don't like.
Face it, inteller, you don't like many things.
You have spent months attacking almost every restaurant, elected official and TulsaNow posters on this forum. The fact that you don't like something that most do says volumes about your self-worth.
I feel sad for you. Read all about it.
positive coverage? More like THE LACK OF COVERAGE. I don't want to ****ing know just what the mayor thinks. Last time I checked the Mayor wasn't the leader of everything around here.
I'm sure that Lassek is having an internal conflict now on who to rah rah and shake the pom poms for now that Karen Keith is in office. But maybe the outcome of that will be we will have more balanced coverage of local government around here.
or maybe not.
Tulsa County news is generally covered by a different reporter. Kevin Canfield writes most of them.
Start your own newspaper, Inteller. Grumble away.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Tulsa County news is generally covered by a different reporter. Kevin Canfield writes most of them.
Start your own newspaper, Inteller. Grumble away.
you are reading it.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Tulsa County news is generally covered by a different reporter. Kevin Canfield writes most of them.
Start your own newspaper, Inteller. Grumble away.
He'd never start his own paper, he would complain about having to spend money on crummy paper and bad printing equipment.
Inteller is on target with his criticism of the World's journalistic standards or lack of them.
Reporters are in a terrible spot because no one is more aware of their responsibilities than they are. At the same time they've seen colleagues that had the gumption to do their jobs -- thrown to the wolves. The only newspapers in the U.S. that back up their reporters are the New York and Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post. Most other papers are chamber of commerce spirit posters period. No one is more aware of this than the reporters.
The Lortons are the problem with the Tulsa World. Many of their reporters are very talented, creative people who do the best they can with what they have to work with.
I'm tired of this argument that "so and so" gave Tulsa X number of dollars so we are to be eternally grateful and cede all power and cease all criticism because we were paid. That's the Tulsa World's primary argument for apologizing for the Good Old Boys. We aren't that cheap. We can't be had for so little money. Tulsa is a world class city and deserves better.
Meanwhile, I bet a lot of these reporters were miserable at the World. Getting laid off used to have a negative stigma, but now it is a positive one. They look like totally loyal employees that would have spent their lives at the World if it weren't for the World's finances. Laid off workers are sought after these days.
At any rate, we have earned a great paper, and the Tulsa World isn't it.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
....
At any rate, we have earned a great paper, and the Tulsa World isn't it.
Still a damn sight better than the Jokelahoman.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Inteller is on target with his criticism of the World's journalistic standards or lack of them.
Reporters are in a terrible spot because no one is more aware of their responsibilities than they are. At the same time they've seen colleagues that had the gumption to do their jobs -- thrown to the wolves. The only newspapers in the U.S. that back up their reporters are the New York and Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post. Most other papers are chamber of commerce spirit posters period. No one is more aware of this than the reporters.
The Lortons are the problem with the Tulsa World. Many of their reporters are very talented, creative people who do the best they can with what they have to work with.
I'm tired of this argument that "so and so" gave Tulsa X number of dollars so we are to be eternally grateful and cede all power and cease all criticism because we were paid. That's the Tulsa World's primary argument for apologizing for the Good Old Boys. We aren't that cheap. We can't be had for so little money. Tulsa is a world class city and deserves better.
Meanwhile, I bet a lot of these reporters were miserable at the World. Getting laid off used to have a negative stigma, but now it is a positive one. They look like totally loyal employees that would have spent their lives at the World if it weren't for the World's finances. Laid off workers are sought after these days.
At any rate, we have earned a great paper, and the Tulsa World isn't it.
yes, don't you know it just pains them when they have to report dirt on their GOBs like their golden boy Kvisto.
You have to read it in the NY Times or the Dallas Morning News to get the full story. Say what you will about Tulsa's Good Old Boys, they control advertising dollars and an angry call to the editor means a pink slip for the offending reporter.
You have to spend money on attorneys to back up a reporter.
At least Tulsa has a stong economy and the workers should be able to find new work soon.[:)]
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
At least Tulsa has a stong economy and the workers should be able to find new work soon.[:)]
er, something like that.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Inteller is on target with his criticism of the World's journalistic standards or lack of them.
I am not defending the Tulsa World standards.
Inteller attacked a single reporter and not very cleverly called her a vulgar name. There is no high road for him.
I responded back because I felt he was wrong to anonymously attack her. She is my friend and does a damn good job and doesn't deserve his treatment. I defend my friends.
She puts her name on everything she writes and he cowers, hides and blogs behind a fake name. She is a professional and he ain't.
This was a thread about a local business and layoffs and he made it a vulgar attack on a person. He should apologize.
Recycle Michael, You make a point of not shielding your identity and you are in a job that requires that you be political. Because you have not shielded your identity, your remarks here on Tulsa Now are to one degree or another also political.
If my name was associated with my remarks I would also be political. And something important (to me at least) would be lost. In my case, honesty would get lost. I would be tempted to do what I do when I relate to people face to face. Be nice. Tell white lies. Make apologies for people. Smooth everything over and spare people their feelings.
For me at least, the value of Tulsa Now is the opportunity to ditch being nice and do Tulsa the favor of being honest.
Both your stance and my stance are valid. And you get different results from both stances.
I have contacted PJ Lasek before with a question and she responded with helpful information. I have a favorable impression of her. But she does not work in an environment where great journalism is encouraged. She probably does the best she can do given difficult circumstances.
I don't know inteller's profession. But I have been impressed with his knowledge of the oil business.
It worries me any time a paper cuts news reporting. I didn't like it when the TW cut the community section, but this seems far worse. While the sports section remains robust every day, the actual news keeps on shrinking!
Sure, the TW doesn't always get everything right. But cutting news reporters will make it even harder for us to get accurate information about our city. (You can't get it in 30 second news stories on TV.)
For months, I've been noticing how the ads have gotten larger, while the number of column inches (of real reporting) have shrunk. I've also learned to take news stories in the TW with a grain of salt.
But... compared to the Daily Oklahoman, the TW is the Washington Post! If you're worried about our city lacking the in-depth jounalism necessary to keep politicians in line and citizens informed about important local issues...you need to look no farther than OKC for an example of the fate we must avoid.
The Oklahoman is like a high school paper run by religious zealots. Scarily amateurish, lacking content, and full of right-wing bias. It's an embarrassing excuse for a newspaper. And we don't want Tulsa to find itself in the same pitiful situation as OKC.
Let's hope that the TW can manage to turn this thing around, and retain whatever dignity it has as a news organization. I don't always agree with the TW or their coverage. But a healthy city/state/nation needs good journalism to function as a democracy.
By the way, here's an interesting column by Georgie Anne Geyer about why many newspapers are failing (//%22http://www.uexpress.com/georgieannegeyer/index.html?uc_full_date=20081215%22). The TW can't blame its problems on public ownership, but Geyer raises interesting points about the fate of journalism in the US.
deleted
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
...
I will agree that the Tulsa World has an agenda. I don't blame them. There has also been power in media. They piss me off on a regular basis, but then win back my admiration when they do things like raise $400,000 for needy families during Christmas.
Newspaper have always had a bad reputation. Mark Twain said, "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed." I don't think that The Tulsa World does a bad job of informing me, I just don't stop getting my information from them before making up my own mind.
Imagine the amount of readers they would have if they stayed neutral AND did the good stuff.
The Tulsa World's reporting standards are why many people no longer take the paper and/or advertisers no longer submit ads. Until they realize that, their numbers will not grow, which is too bad since they are the only daily. I wish they put out a quality document I could be proud to say I get delivered to my home. I won't be one of those people who say the only reason they get the paper is because it is the only one in town.
I admit the Internet has cause many problems for the print media, but much of the Tulsa World's problems are brought on by their own poor reporting standards/slants, which (according to reporters I know who work there) come from the top.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Tulsa County news is generally covered by a different reporter. Kevin Canfield writes most of them.
Start your own newspaper, Inteller. Grumble away.
you are reading it.
That's funny!!
[}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by DowntownNow
Inteller...
It's unfortunate that such a knowledgable individual such as yourself, who has expressed many a great opinion on here in the past, lowered yourself to such a standard as to attack a TW writer personally and using such a blatant and vulgar term in the process. You may have been trying to be clever in your way of expressing your dislike of PJ Lassek, using your little capitalized letters and such, but your post only demonstrates how simple minded and distasteful some can be on here when there is no reason or justification for it. I would think this is a forum in which educated, well intentioned individuals can express their ideas, concerns and opinions in order to engage in dialogue about news and events happening around and effecting us.
I have had the opportunity to meet PJ Lassek several times over the last couple of years and while I do not agree with everything PJ Lassek writes, I do understand that most times she is subject to the review of her editors and must leave certain information out of articles. She is a woman simply performing her job, if you have a personal beef with her, you should keep it just that, personal.
The loss of any jobs in Tulsa hurts us all and the start of this post was to inform its readership of such. We should be asking ourselves what can be done to help those whose jobs were terminated today and offering suggestions to them on here instead of using it to berate, name call and attack an individual that could have just as easily been victim to this job loss as well.
I would certianly hope others within this forum would not take a liking to your posting either...it speaks ill of the type of people Tulsa has come to be known by - people that are caring and sincere, particularly when their neighbors are in need. We lead best by example and your's sir is not the example I want to be reading in this fine forum and sharing with those I want to encourage to move here.
Your wasting your time with this guy. Inteller's the only guy more obtuse than me in this forum. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Inteller is on target with his criticism of the World's journalistic standards or lack of them.
I responded back because I felt he was wrong to anonymously attack her. She is my friend and does a damn good job and doesn't deserve his treatment. I defend my friends.
why should anyone be surprised that one mayor's apologist would defend another?
But I appreciate your consistency.
I am glad we have a local paper that does local news to the extent it does. Its nice to have stuff "in print" in a place where the majority of people can see it and argue about it. Are they biased, duh, eeeeeeeeeveryone knows it is so everyone takes that into consideration automatically. However, they do still put out a lot of information that would otherwise not get out to a lot of people. Even the biased or partial stuff at least gives you the heads up to what part of the story is, and what to be paying attention to lol. If anything I see that as a woooonderful opportunity for someone to be the contrarian and fill the gap. Tulsa People, Urban Tulsa, The Eagle, local Bloggers, Tulsa Now, etc. It doesn't have to be another large paper. Most of the TW doesn't do one, really, in-depth story, its lots of little stories with only a little info. One good story a month can trump a bunch of little stories with little info.
But its often those little stories and what the TW says that can spur others to dig deeper and challenge things, and at least put the story into the public consciousness. I appreciate it when Bates "trying not to puke as I say this...[:P]" does an in depth story on a topic. You can tell when he does a lot of digging, lot of work, puts a lot of effort into a story. Though he often sees things through his own bias, Who doesn't?, at least he puts in a good amount of thought, info, and depth, into many of his stories. I don't think I have really ever seen the TW do stories where they have had someone sit down, focus on a topic, and really dig deep for stuff. They pretty much just do enough to get the general gist of it, a few factoids that anyone could put out there without much searching. I know you have to do that if your trying to fill space in a paper every day and week. But I still wish they would, on occasion, do some real digging and prying and present as in depth a story as they could on a topic and not just do brief "general info" stories. I would rather have less stories and suffer a little silence on a topic if I knew they would then come out with an in depth series of stories later.
I have seen many a time when there is so little information in a story, or such poor wording, that people are actually left more confused, and with more questions than before they read the story lol. And then it takes more stories to try and get the misunderstandings corrected. And sometimes you can never "undo" those first confused impressions.
It would be great for them to, say, every other month, pick a pertinent topic, a special assignment, and do some really in depth analysis of something going on locally. Even have the paper look different or be special editions so people would take notice and look forward to getting these. Perhaps have 3 reporters or teams, one doing the pros, the other the cons, the other some possible compromise or alternative views. I think it would give the paper a lot more weight and gravitas. Even if 95% of the time it was the usual, get at least some bit of info out there, type of thing. Those in depth, both sides, type stories would be much appreciated. And if done well, and on a regular, bi-monthly basis, would be looked forward too. I bet people, "students as part of a classroom project, good to get the young people interested in the paper and local issues" would be far more likely to actually buy the paper to be able to sit down and read that great, in-depth analysis and different perspectives.
And yes, the TW is SO much better than the Daily Oklahoman. Ghastly paper there.
The OKC newspaper is "The Oklahoman." They left the "Daily" in the dust long ago. Also, with the change of family members at the helm, the editorial content is less right-of-center than it has been in the past. They have also improved the graphic presentation. The news has always been good and is getting better. I am a regular reader for OK Politics, OU Sports, and news outside the metro areas.
They don't cover Tulsa very well. Not as bad as the Tulsa World coverage of state government or OKC news, but not worthy of the "state newspaper" title they use. They also bait Tulsans thus adding to the rivalry, but that is a longer older story.
Top Tulsa World News Management said to me, "Our editorial pages exist to convince people that what we believe is right is right. There is no obligation for us to present balanced or diverse editorial presentations." That is a different philosophy than the departed afternoon daily Tulsa Tribune which believed in getting the best opinions from all sides and letting the people/readers figure out which was right. If the Tulsa World would hire people, as many other news organizations have done, to disagree within their own pages, there would be far less angry dispute in this city. Totalitarianism in anything ultimately leads to revolution – government, business and media.
I have frequently been a public critic of the Tulsa World not because they are all that bad, but because they could be so very much better. I have also had my disagreements with PJ, but I believe her to be an honest reporter working for what she believes is the best story. I don't really like her and we dang sure disagree often, but I respect her work.
Another difference between news organizations, the Tulsa Tribune moved reporters to different beats every few years. At the Tulsa World, you can die in the same place you were hired. In covering government, moving reporters with each change of administrations has great advantages.
My best wishes to former reporters now looking for work. I will publish your good work if you desire to stay visible as a journalist in this market. I will include a bio bit and a direct e-mail for you. However, there is little local love for hard news reporting and much abuse from anonymous critics. Regardless, I have the legal talent and will back any reporter that may wish to write truth to power. To avoid charges of self-promotion, I will not list my URL here ... you know where to find me.
so what time do they close down at 319 E 3rd St?
Apparently the Tulsa World needed some money for a country club membership.
http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/01/whirled-update.html
Can you say 'car executive.'
quote:
Originally posted by David Arnett
The OKC newspaper is "The Oklahoman." They left the "Daily" in the dust long ago. Also, with the change of family members at the helm, the editorial content is less right-of-center than it has been in the past. They have also improved the graphic presentation. The news has always been good and is getting better. I am a regular reader for OK Politics, OU Sports, and news outside the metro areas.
They don't cover Tulsa very well. Not as bad as the Tulsa World coverage of state government or OKC news, but not worthy of the "state newspaper" title they use. They also bait Tulsans thus adding to the rivalry, but that is a longer older story.
Top Tulsa World News Management said to me, "Our editorial pages exist to convince people that what we believe is right is right. There is no obligation for us to present balanced or diverse editorial presentations." That is a different philosophy than the departed afternoon daily Tulsa Tribune which believed in getting the best opinions from all sides and letting the people/readers figure out which was right. If the Tulsa World would hire people, as many other news organizations have done, to disagree within their own pages, there would be far less angry dispute in this city. Totalitarianism in anything ultimately leads to revolution – government, business and media.
I have frequently been a public critic of the Tulsa World not because they are all that bad, but because they could be so very much better. I have also had my disagreements with PJ, but I believe her to be an honest reporter working for what she believes is the best story. I don't really like her and we dang sure disagree often, but I respect her work.
Another difference between news organizations, the Tulsa Tribune moved reporters to different beats every few years. At the Tulsa World, you can die in the same place you were hired. In covering government, moving reporters with each change of administrations has great advantages.
My best wishes to former reporters now looking for work. I will publish your good work if you desire to stay visible as a journalist in this market. I will include a bio bit and a direct e-mail for you. However, there is little local love for hard news reporting and much abuse from anonymous critics. Regardless, I have the legal talent and will back any reporter that may wish to write truth to power. To avoid charges of self-promotion, I will not list my URL here ... you know where to find me.
Wow, really? You have not heard from anyone yet? Huh. That is weird. I wonder why not? Have you put anything on your blog about the World's layoff? Ha ha! Ribbit! Ribbit!
Was it sgrizzle that had a picture of his kid in the paper last year? That proves it. Clearly Biased. Most definitely pushing the grizz agenda. And the pumpkin agenda as well (if I remember correctly)
Just kidding...I've got 2 sick kids and have been stuck in the house 3 days. Help Meeeeeeee!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
Just kidding...I've got 2 sick kids and have been stuck in the house 3 days. Help Meeeeeeee!!!!!
My advice to you is to start drinking heavily. And you had better listen to me, I was pre-law.
What's soooo bad is that Mr. K has had to work late every night (or has he...) So legally, is that grounds for divorce? LOL
At least it is the cold sickness and not "the other kind" profiled on KJRH Monday eve, because hearing about the stomack flu was about the worst thing I've seen on the news lately. [xx(] THAT would drive me to drink heavily.
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
THAT would drive me to drink heavily.
Take a designated driver to come back. [:D]
So apparently Mr. Bates is being sued for his recent article in the Urban Tulsa.
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A25966
http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/01/sued-by-the-whirled.html
EDIT: This is already being discussed in the Political forum: http://www.tulsanow.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12465
yeah, because you know, legal matters are political...[8)]
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
Just kidding...I've got 2 sick kids and have been stuck in the house 3 days. Help Meeeeeeee!!!!!
My advice to you is to start drinking heavily. And you had better listen to me, I was pre-law.
I thought you were pre-med?
Glad someone caught the reference Dbacks. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I heard that the Lortons were heavily invested into buying another newspaper earlier this year (likely why they cut back in March) and were close to completing the sale when the economy tanked. Now they can't secure the financing and can't complete the sale which hurt them.
Also, they had upped the individual paper cost and upped the pay to their box route carriers (retail stores and vending machines) in response to gas prices, then gas prices subsided. That had to also hurt.
As far as less advertising, that is untrue. There were more end-of-year sales ads this year than previous years. They may be predicting less advertising early in '09 but the first part of the year is always low on advertising revenue for papers.
Can't get financing???
They are always eager to finance any new county and city projects via the Lorton family finance arm.
Media in general is struggling, daily print is dying a slow death (maybe not that slow anymore, just agonizing).
I wonder if their apparent financial situation will have any effect on getting the new Music/pac thing built at TU? If I recall correctly, I think the Lortons were a major donor for that.
The Whirld's lawsuit reminds me of the music industry blaming their falling sales on kids copying CD's in their dorm rooms to share with friends, instead of looking at their own failed business models.
If Lorton starts taking from the RIAA playbook, he may alienate the remaining readers that hadnt yet formed an opinion.
It looks like the Dallas Morning News is laying off. (//%22http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2009/jan/30/dallas-based-belo-initiating-more-layoffs-cutting-/%22) To the tune of 500 jobs plus no more free parking. I don't think they would make a good replacement for the Tulsa World. The DMN only cares about the rich parts of Dallas. Rumors are that the Star Telegram will also be laying off staff.