So we decided to take the kids to Dry Gulch Friday night to the Christmas train...we bought tickets a few weeks ago and were looking forward to it...arrived after driving in the middle of redneck country for about 15 minutes down a 2 lane road with no shoulders..but hey that's Oklahoma.
We get to the parking lot, not bad...parked not to far and they had lots of people with golf carts ready to give you a ride..GREAT! Arrive VERY friendly staff lining up to greet you in western themed clothing...music playing...it really is impressive....walk in..the place is brand spanking new...
We decide to ride on the Carousel first to avoid the crowds a little later...hop on for a buck...(very nice price)....get some hot chocolate for a bucks...water...2 bucks...BBQ sandwich with sides..6 bucks...all very reasonable and no gouging going on here..so far so good...rode the stage coach ride(5.00 each) vs. the open wagon ride(free) but was nice to be in a private stage coach taking about a 10 min ride around a trail with the "night before Christmas) on nice big signs around the path that we read to the kids....
We also visited with Santa at his "palace" which was the highlight of the evening..we waited for maybe 15 min's in the heated room that was brand new, had lots of benches and was more like the parlor of a house than waiting room..lots of friendly staff walking around...we go into a private room with Santa and he spends at least 5 mins with the kids which was amazing considering all the people waiting behind us....we take the pic and are ushered into the exit and can buy a pic which was 3 8x10's for around 10 bucks(not bad at all) very high quality as well...the rest of the Dry Gulch experience was great..pony rides 5 bucks(no lines)...lots of little shops to visit...very clean and open..never really felt like we were in a crowd of people..
Now for the gripe...the reason we went was for the Christmas train...it was about a 30 min wait to get on the train..but was well organized and the staff AGAIN was very friendly and made the wait easy...the train was nice...very well packed in and the view was nice...the story was the story of Jesus being born and dieing for our sins' being narrated over the speakers...it was nice...I was expecting something more in conjunction(okay so I was wanting something more commercial along with the story(elves..Santa waving...etc for the kids) but that's just me...so we are ushered into a large building to watch a short film...this is where my gripe starts)...it is willie george on the big screen theater style..telling the story about his life and why dry gulch was made...basically GRAPHICALLY telling about how his mother slit her wrists, blood all over the apartment, alcoholism, his mother not being around, his dad dying...and more...this was VERY graphic esp to a 5 year old and there were about 60+ kids around the same age with this look of "whats he talking bout mommy" on their face...I was in shock...wondering should I just get up and leave or stay...we stayed and both looked at each other like pancakes was that...along with many other parents who we heard complaining that much of those details SHOULD have been left out of that..I can understand talking bout hardship..but give me a break..your having a good time..than you talk about blood, slitting wrists..alcoholism? I know that some churches like GUTS and Church on the move are the more progressive ones..but this was a little over the top...so in case your going..SKIP the film and keep going if you have young kids....just my two cents...but the rest again..was super and I could go and just skip the train all together to be honest...
so let me get this straight....is Dry Gulch some sort of religious experience. I know Jesus didn't arrive by train, and tacking Christmas on the end is one thing, but are they suckering you into a sermon of some sort? They don't advertise it that way on the cards.
Thanks for the heads up on the movie, my daughter is 3 and she asks enough questions as it is. I appreciate the rest of it being positive though, we are planning to go this year, first time.
Yes, it's always been put on by Church on the Move and its purpose is to remind people the real reason for Christmas holiday. Sounds like there are plenty of wonderful things to do there if you want to skip the train ride and the story of Jesus' birth.
Thanks again for the heads up.
Church on the move? I'll take my train ride with a little less "evangelical".
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so let me get this straight....is Dry Gulch some sort of religious experience. I know Jesus didn't arrive by train, and tacking Christmas on the end is one thing, but are they suckering you into a sermon of some sort? They don't advertise it that way on the cards.
Well the place is a church campy during teh summer with 10k kids attending..this isn't really a "religious experience" but the train is the story of Jesus dying for our sin's etc.." that was really the only part that was non-commercialized" which I think was good..yet it was the movie at the end that put the icing on the cake for me on the negative post"...
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Church on the move? I'll take my train ride with a little less "evangelical".
If you have kids the place is a GREAT PLACE to go..and is very affordable..but again..skipping the train ride might be best for some!(trying to keep the thread positive..remember it is Christmas!!
yeah that's poor form. You shouldn't cover the gory parts of Christianity until Easter.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa_fan
Thanks for the heads up on the movie, my daughter is 3 and she asks enough questions as it is. I appreciate the rest of it being positive though, we are planning to go this year, first time.
Yes, it's always been put on by Church on the Move and its purpose is to remind people the real reason for Christmas holiday. Sounds like there are plenty of wonderful things to do there if you want to skip the train ride and the story of Jesus' birth.
The train ride was fun...and the story was well told and my daughter loved the angels etc...but after your are "herded" into a theater..which I am assuming they cannot FORCE you to stay for but it is the only exit so keep on walking and you might have to explain to them that you do NOT want to stay..
BUT AGAIN HAVE FUN!! I think total we spent maybe 30 dollars the entire night on food, drinks, pictures with santa etc...great value and very clean well secure place...
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
yeah that's poor form. You shouldn't cover the gory parts of Christianity until Easter.
LOL...
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
yeah that's poor form. You shouldn't cover the gory parts of Christianity until Easter.
You know, I usually don't agree with most of what you say Inteller, but this made me LOL at work and get funny looks until I showed them the thread.
I remember thinking Easter shouldn't be that bloody until I watched POTC for the first time. Yeesh.
Dry Gulch, as a originally remember it being advertised, was where you could ride a train to the north pole (like the Polar Express story) but you would also be exposed to the christian Christmas story along the way. I heard over the past year they tore down the North Pole and Santa is left to only one or two spots in the whole attraction now. I had not heard about the theater part yet. Seems like a good reason to skip. Can't imagine going to see "The Christmas Train" but then skipping the train ride. That movie seems completely out of context with the whole point of the park.
Leave the "in your face" graphic evangelism for Halloween like "GUTS" does.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
yeah that's poor form. You shouldn't cover the gory parts of Christianity until Easter.
You know, I usually don't agree with most of what you say Inteller, but this made me LOL at work and get funny looks until I showed them the thread.
I remember thinking Easter shouldn't be that bloody until I watched POTC for the first time. Yeesh.
well actually I was referring to the Killer Bunny Rabbits with Big Pointy Teeth (//%22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_of_Caerbannog%22), but whatever.
I called this morning and asked the people who were in charge of the train and movie about this and why they feel its appropriate to play, they said they did research and feel that this is appropriate for all ages and children as they feel that alot of people are in this spot and this might give them a way out...!!
So the MINORITY should be force fed into the MAJORITY? GIVE ME A BREAK!
I asked them why they felt they didn't need to post some sort of "this is graphic" PG-13 warning etc to those parents who's kids are not going thru it and just want to enjoy everything else and skip over the doom and gloom(isn't there enough of that in the world right now lets be able to escape if we want to)
She basically blew me off and said this is how they do it and how they are GOING to do it and that's it!....very disappointing that they "own this" idea and this is how they do it..I also explained to them I was posting my real life review on the experience online and they really got upset and ask why I was making this my crusade agaist them!!(what the H?!)
I understand its a private place..but still...your inviting the PUBLIC and even movies have warnings when you go to the theater..I think that this was the most graphic thing my kids have ever seen...very disappointed in the staff today...
I would invite others to post if they go/or went and let me know if it is just me here! I spoke with a few other parents after the train ride and they expressed the same concern as I..
Also one more thing...the ladies I spoke with said they did a "after the movie" survey on their opening night(when its just church members) and apparently got rave reviews..well DUH...everyone is already drinking that koolaid!
Don't get me wrong, I go to church, pray etc..but this was over the top inappropriate.
Okay last post of the day!
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
So the MINORITY should be force fed into the MAJORITY?
isn't that kinda the way it works with the tin can churches?
As I understand it Lincoln Christian is very much a "this is the way it will be" institution, for better or worse. From the method of preaching to the message. When a decision is made it will be defended. Which makes sense if you believe your religious leader is inspired by God.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
As I understand it Lincoln Christian is very much a "this is the way it will be" institution, for better or worse. From the method of preaching to the message. When a decision is made it will be defended. Which makes sense if you believe your religious leader is inspired by God.
Not expressing opinion here, just conveying a fact. The following are all subsidiaries of "Willie George Ministries:"
Church on the Move
Lincoln Christian School
Dry Gulch USA
Christmas Train
He is an equal opportunity employer, although you have to provide your current church information, conversion history, and if you have been convicted of any misdemeanors.
Job App (//%22http://www.churchonthemove.com/images/content/b28de7f845ff6634cdb1462dfc9f85c8/COTM_Employment_Application.pdf%22)
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
He is an equal opportunity employer, although you have to provide your current church information, conversion history, and if you have been convicted of any misdemeanors.
Conversion?
But, I like being a guy.
"CONVERSION EXPERIENCE (Explain your salvation and baptism experience.)"
Well, it was wet.
Thank you for the post. If I choose to take my 7 year old we will be SURE to skip the "movie". I think it's disgusting the way these Charismatics insist on using fear as their motivator for faith.
If anyone finds themselves in the Dallas Metro Area this time of year, the City of Grapevine puts on a very cool Polar Express experience. They put you on a train at night and encourage the children to come in their pajamas just like in the book. It's wonderful, affordable and filled with Christmas "magic". It's completely secular and sticks entirely to the theme of the Children's Literature work. There is a reading of the story, cocoa and all the kids get a bell at the end. No blood or death, just a train ride!
And another thing.....someone told me a couple of years ago about how they felt tricked when they went to Dry Gulch. They mentioned something about being herded in and getting the "Jesus put in them".
You will probably hear more reports like yours in time. Just keep in mind where we are and the number of people who don't find that tactic offensive. I still think it's creepy though.
I just said, "Shame on me" for not doing more research. I went with my family once, but I will not be attending again.
Yeah, wouldn't want Jesus to ruin your Christmas experience.*
*this is not directed at anyone in particular, just a comment on the thread in general.
My old boss, who was devoutly Catholic wanted to go to the Christmas Train for a teambuilding exercise once. I think enough of us found reason to be busy that evening so nothing happened. I would have loved to have seen her reaction to that though!!![:P]
I've heard enough about it to know better than to go. I don't take evangelizing well. [xx(] As for that job application, after I got done with it they would never call me back! I used to work for a Catholic school and all they wanted was a reference letter from your pastor/priest/minister.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
Yeah, wouldn't want Jesus to ruin your Christmas experience.*
*this is not directed at anyone in particular, just a comment on the thread in general.
There's alot about Christmas that has nothing to do with Jesus. The log, the tree, the cards, santa, Jesus' birthday, etc.
There should be a heads up about graphic content no matter the context.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
Yeah, wouldn't want Jesus to ruin your Christmas experience.
I still celebrate the birthday of the sun god on December 25th, just like the Greeks did for ~700 years, the Romans adopted, and the Christians latched on to after merging it with Germanic rituals. It annoys me that Chris has entered my "tmas" celebration. Why can't I sit alone and worship Mithras on Sun(god)day while sharing my communal Mithra meal in the tomb from which he was reborn? Those pesky kings that came to worship Mithras have been stolen too!
Oh how I wish he Mummers were once again free to travel from house to house spreading cheer and song to appease the sun god in this glorious holiday season of the sun god (Dies Natalis Invicti Solis). As we warm our self by the sun-god log (Yule meaning wheel, referring to the disc of the sun). Revel in ever greens (Christmas trees, holly, mistletoe), lighting candles to encourage the arrival of long summer days (Christmas candles/lights), and gazing upon the winter star in the dark sky (visible in the longest winter nights).
- - -
The idea that people are "corrupting" a religious holiday with some other ideas is nothing new. That cult probably stole half their stuff from someone else. The Roman Empire that birthed Christianity was a huge melting pot of religious ideas and widely tolerant. Claiming someones idea of the holiday season is somehow flawed is itself a dubious line of thinking.
Anyone else know where the "Festivus for the Rest of us" sign is in Tulsa?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I still celebrate the birthday of the sun god on December 25th, just like the Greeks did for ~700 years, the Romans adopted, and the Christians latched on to after merging it with Germanic rituals. It annoys me that Chris has entered my "tmas" celebration. Why can't I sit alone and worship Mithras on Sunday while sharing my communal Mithra meal in the tomb from which he was reborn? Those pesky kings that came to worship Mithras have been stolen too!
Oh how I wish he Mummers were once again free to travel from house to house spreading cheer and song to appease the sun god in this glorious holiday season of the sun god (Dies Natalis Invicti Solis). As we warm our self by the sun-god log (Yule meaning wheel, referring to the disc of the sun). Revel in ever greens (Christmas trees, holly, mistletoe), lighting candles to encourage the arrival of long summer days (Christmas candles/lights), and gazing upon the winter star in the dark sky (visible in the longest winter nights).
- - -
The idea that people are "corrupting" a religious holiday with some other ideas is nothing new. That cult probably stole half their stuff from someone else. The Roman Empire that birthed Christianity was a huge melting pot of religious ideas and widely tolerant. Claiming someones idea of the holiday season is somehow flawed is itself a dubious line of thinking.
Anyone else know where the "Festivus for the Rest of us" sign is in Tulsa?
Show off
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
Yeah, wouldn't want Jesus to ruin your Christmas experience.*
*this is not directed at anyone in particular, just a comment on the thread in general.
something tells me when the 3 wise men arrived at the manger they weren't assaulted with a film about drinking and slitting wrists.
We also went and enjoyed it but I agree...the language in the film was too graphic for children's ears. No child should be hearing a story about a mother slitting her wrists and swallowing a bottle of sleeping pills! I hope this church will get some common sense and change the film. The experience was enjoyable otherwise.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
Yeah, wouldn't want Jesus to ruin your Christmas experience.*
*this is not directed at anyone in particular, just a comment on the thread in general.
not the point...I don't mind that...its the blood and guts...try to stay on topic...
Bump...anyone else go and have an opinion..
Zstyles, thank you for posting about your experience. What you wrote is not what we had in mind to take our three year old to. I suppose I should have known better, seeing the organization it was affiliated with (known for overzealousness and scare tactics), but the focus is on the "Christmas Train" in their advertisements.
I'm wondering if they will get a big turnout this year since it has been closed, but after people attend they won't want to go again. From what I understand, it is about sold out. We will not be using the tickets we bought.
Is this the same people that did or do the Halloween program that they claim will "Scare The Hell Out Of You"?
Do they hand out scary tracts that say:
"Bobby went trick or treating with his friends. The next night he died and went directly to Hell!"
--or--
"Susie wanted to be cool and have sex. Too bad she got pregnant and AIDS and died. And went to Hell too."
[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
Do they hand out scary tracts that say:
"Bobby went trick or treating with his friends. The next night he died and went directly to Hell!"
--or--
"Susie wanted to be cool and have sex. Too bad she got pregnant and AIDS and died. And went to Hell too."
[xx(]
That sounds right, all the dangers of drugs, sex, and alchohol.
I talked to my SIL who goes to church there . . she said she took her 3 year old neice and she didn't pay any attention to the film, but I explained that wouldn't be the case with my 3 year old (who doesn't miss a THING) and older children. Anway, she was disappointed it was getting a bad wrap, but seemed understanding of the issue. Anyway, she said the tickets are sold out. She also said the movie is optional, so if you have them, I'd still go.
On the other hand, if you have tickets and don't want to go, I might be interested if you want to PM me Southerngirl.
Anyway, hopefully they will drop the scare tactics next year. I don't really remember that being a way Jesus used to communicate His message, so I don't why these churches are going that route.
quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan
Is this the same people that did or do the Halloween program that they claim will "Scare The Hell Out Of You"?
That's GUTS.
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa_fan
Anway, she was disappointed it was getting a bad wrap, but seemed understanding of the issue. Anyway, she said the tickets are sold out. She also said the movie is optional, so if you have them, I'd still go.
But she must be drinking the koolaid from the people that were "surveyed" and said it was appropriate for all ages, the movie is optional but they pretty much herd you into the big room and it starts within 1 min..so if your gonna exit..make like a bandit! Oh well I am sure it will be even worse next year..the train isn't all that..the town as I said is fun...but I personally have to say the train is "over rated"
Hi,
I go to COTM and visited Christmas Train on the first public night...
It was excellent and food was quite reasonable...
I did not feel gouged or pressured by any of it...
The stores are reasonable and the people polite and you do not feel like a tourist, with wolves panting for you to pull out your wallet...
There were no scare tactics and no Koolaid...
The movie (short) was simply Willie sitting by a fire at the camp sharing his heart ....
He indeed spoke of his negative childhood briefly and offered hope to anyone facing similar circumstances...
I suppose you could skip the movie if you wanted to..
I don't recall armed guards leering at me and asking for my papers....
I cannot confirm this, but have heard he edited out that part...
If indeed he did. it was because (IMO) he was being sensitive to others ....
I do not know Willie personally but beleive he is sincere about helping kids and providing children with a good experience he never had as a kid growing up...
My Son goes to youth (called "180") at the Church, and has had a very positive and cool experience ...
The kids from birth to adult are treated with respect and love and it shows in their attitude....
It is sad many people call themselves Christian, in which there is only one source for this belief, and that is the Christian Bible...
Period.
Yet the minute someone publically talks about their belief in Jesus, they either get offended or go away mad, muttering about religion being private etc, etc...
To be a Christian you must first beleive in the only source of Christianity which is the Christian Bible, right?
The Bible does say to go into all the world and preach the Gospel (good news) to every creature...doesn't it?
If you say are Christian, and do not accept this, then are you not violating your own foundational beliefs ?
Santa is there in full force even though he is not part of the Christian Christmas but he is definitely a part of our culture and reflects the giving spirit of this holiday...
I know this is not a religious forum but since the subject ties directly into the discussed subject with many barbs and jabs (some humorous) I feel free to rant a bit....
quote:
Originally posted by In2neon
Hi,
I go to COTM and visited Christmas Train on the first public night...
It was excellent and food was quite reasonable...
I did not feel gouged or pressured by any of it...
The stores are reasonable and the people polite and you do not feel like a tourist, with wolves panting for you to pull out your wallet...
There were no scare tactics and no Koolaid...
The movie (short) was simply Willie sitting by a fire at the camp sharing his heart ....
He indeed spoke of his negative childhood briefly and offered hope to anyone facing similar circumstances...
I suppose you could skip the movie if you wanted to..
I don't recall armed guards leering at me and asking for my papers....
I cannot confirm this, but have heard he edited out that part...
If indeed he did. it was because (IMO) he was being sensitive to others ....
I do not know Willie personally but beleive he is sincere about helping kids and providing children with a good experience he never had as a kid growing up...
My Son goes to youth (called "180") at the Church, and has had a very positive and cool experience ...
The kids from birth to adult are treated with respect and love and it shows in their attitude....
It is sad many people call themselves Christian, in which there is only one source for this belief, and that is the Christian Bible...
Period.
Yet the minute someone publically talks about their belief in Jesus, they either get offended or go away mad, muttering about religion being private etc, etc...
To be a Christian you must first beleive in the only source of Christianity which is the Christian Bible, right?
The Bible does say to go into all the world and preach the Gospel (good news) to every creature...doesn't it?
If you say are Christian, and do not accept this, then are you not violating your own foundational beliefs ?
Santa is there in full force even though he is not part of the Christian Christmas but he is definitely a part of our culture and reflects the giving spirit of this holiday...
I know this is not a religious forum but since the subject ties directly into the discussed subject with many barbs and jabs (some humorous) I feel free to rant a bit....
Thank you for responding to a legitimate complaint (Film contains subject that may be considered too graphic for minors) and turning into "I'm a Christian, why are you mad at me"
Were you trying to sound like an idiot or just a martyr?
[/quote]
Thank you for responding to a legitimate complaint (Film contains subject that may be considered too graphic for minors) and turning into "I'm a Christian, why are you mad at me"
Were you trying to sound like an idiot or just a martyr?
[/quote]
Exactly what I was thinking..
To the 2nd up newbie poser who thinks I was bashing...Chill dude..I thought the place was great too..the film is what ERKED me and we won't be going back again, I also spoke with a co-worker who was talking about the same thing today at work..they went last week and he thought the film was quite graphic and un-necessary for his 6 year old.
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Bump...anyone else go and have an opinion..
So a week goes by without any more bashing and you bump the post asking for opinions and when I give mine I am called an idiot by 2 people...
Sounds like I just didn't give you the response you were looking for...
You just wanted more bashing....
I liked the experience as a whole and am not in complete disagreement about little children hearing that part and maybe it should be tweaked....
But it more sounds like you are offended by the overal concept of Christianity and the Bible's message of spreading the word once you have heard it....
I did not write the book but it does command ALL Christians to do certain things and one of those things is to evangelize....
Went to Rhema last night, and I was surprised at the lack of soliciation or what not. No roving prayer warriors, no exploding heads of John the Baptist, no snuff movies of the Lord, no huge displays of sinners sifting through the hands of an angry God into hellfire. No splattering blood of martyered saints or Messiahs in graphic reenactments. I thought it was a Charismanic gig, what is the matter with these people? And the Victory 'Christmas' show? I HEAR: NO ARMEGEDDON! No death or gore or hellfire! What is wrong with those phoney 'charismatics'? Do they not know they are all bloodthirsty whackos?
Ha ha ha! Suck it you haters! In any case, sounds like some feedback about the objections to Whacky Willie's movie should be sent up the chain. Neon, will you make contact with your Cell Leader to relay these concerns or will you take this as evidence of persecution?
quote:
Originally posted by In2neon
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Bump...anyone else go and have an opinion..
So a week goes by without any more bashing and you bump the post asking for opinions and when I give mine I am called an idiot by 2 people...
Sounds like I just didn't give you the response you were looking for...
You just wanted more bashing....
I liked the experience as a whole and am not in complete disagreement about little children hearing that part and maybe it should be tweaked....
But it more sounds like you are offended by the overal concept of Christianity and the Bible's message of spreading the word once you have heard it....
I did not write the book but it does command ALL Christians to do certain things and one of those things is to evangelize....
Great! Now you proved your an even bigger moron! Thanks for the follow up! Sorry that I won't get into a flaming war with you! Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Great! Now you proved your an even bigger moron! Thanks for the follow up! Sorry that I won't get into a flaming war with you! Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!
[/quote]
That's it ???
I thought this part of the forum was titled "discussion"....
Sounds like if you don't agree wholeheartedly with the poster of the thread you are unwelcome to "discuss" here....
MERRY CHRISTMAS
I think maybe it should have been be like this on the tix/commercials: (forgive me if it already is)
(imagine the big FANCY writing)
The Christmas Train*
*As a courtesy we warn you that some content shown during our informative film may be frightening for very young children. A separate room with children's music has been provided for this purpose. As always, thank you for your patronage.
Now on your GUTS/Nightmare experience, as the letters obviously drip with blood, you probably don't want to take your tot.
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
I think maybe it should have been be like this on the tix/commercials: (forgive me if it already is)
(imagine the big FANCY writing)
The Christmas Train*
*As a courtesy we warn you that some content shown during our informative film may be frightening for very young children. A separate room with children's music has been provided for this purpose. As always, thank you for your patronage.
Now on your GUTS/Nightmare experience, as the letters obviously drip with blood, you probably don't want to take your tot.
Exactly, and I think that was the OP's point. Nobody is 'bashing' Christianity. I went to their website, and NOWHERE on the site does it even mention this film being presented, nor what the contents are. Not under the 'What to Expect' section, not under the FAQ section-
nowhere. As a matter of fact the only place that the 'Church On the Move' is even mentioned is a small footnote at the bottom of the 'Contact Us' page.
www.christmastrain.com
IMO, this is very misleading and deceptive. Obviously the organizers do not want it to be known that the operation is an attempt to evangelize, but clearly it is. According to a story in the Pryor Daily Times:
"That's why we do Dry Gulch USA," said George. "God loves you so much that he sent Jesus Christ to this world to die for your sins."
He invites the audience to pray before they leave the theater.
"Think of the number of people who may never get through the door of a church," said Kuerbitz. "We hope we've given them the experience of understanding the true Christmas story ... reach out to people, affect them on a number of levels, physical, emotional and spiritual."
Honestly I have no issue with that. It is a private park and they can do what they want,
however:If you are providing a family-focused Christmas experience period then fine, but if you are using this 'experience' to evangelize and promote your religion, then it needs to be
clearly expressed- and certainly if some of the content is not suited for children- the targeted audience of such a show!
Personally I would have been beyond angry and would have demanded my money back- especially if I had kids with me. If I want to go to church, I will do so on my own time and at the church of MY choice, thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
I think maybe it should have been be like this on the tix/commercials: (forgive me if it already is)
(imagine the big FANCY writing)
The Christmas Train*
*As a courtesy we warn you that some content shown during our informative film may be frightening for very young children. A separate room with children's music has been provided for this purpose. As always, thank you for your patronage.
Now on your GUTS/Nightmare experience, as the letters obviously drip with blood, you probably don't want to take your tot.
Exactly, and I think that was the OP's point. Nobody is 'bashing' Christianity. I went to their website, and NOWHERE on the site does it even mention this film being presented, nor what the contents are. Not under the 'What to Expect' section, not under the FAQ section- nowhere. As a matter of fact the only place that the 'Church On the Move' is even mentioned is a small footnote at the bottom of the 'Contact Us' page.
www.christmastrain.com
IMO, this is very misleading and deceptive. Obviously the organizers do not want it to be known that the operation is an attempt to evangelize, but clearly it is. According to a story in the Pryor Daily Times:
"That's why we do Dry Gulch USA," said George. "God loves you so much that he sent Jesus Christ to this world to die for your sins."
He invites the audience to pray before they leave the theater.
"Think of the number of people who may never get through the door of a church," said Kuerbitz. "We hope we've given them the experience of understanding the true Christmas story ... reach out to people, affect them on a number of levels, physical, emotional and spiritual."
Honestly I have no issue with that. It is a private park and they can do what they want, however:
If you are providing a family-focused Christmas experience period then fine, but if you are using this 'experience' to evangelize and promote your religion, then it needs to be clearly expressed- and certainly if some of the content is not suited for children- the targeted audience of such a show!
Personally I would have been beyond angry and would have demanded my money back- especially if I had kids with me. If I want to go to church, I will do so on my own time and at the church of MY choice, thank you.
Very good analagy and points..I wouldn't ask for a refund..to be honest the rest of the place was great..it was the movie that turned me off. I had a friend who went there last night..I advised him to skip the show and he did...I think that I got my money's worth and it was worth paying..but the entire commercial "train" is WAYYYY over -rated....the train was my least fav thing even before the movie..(waiting in line for 45 mins for a 3 min train ride with posters up of bible scenes? I can go to ORU and see that for free!
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan
Is this the same people that did or do the Halloween program that they claim will "Scare The Hell Out Of You"?
That's GUTS.
I was looking at GUTS site and saw that Jimmy Swaggart's son Matt Swaggart is thier art director. Is GUTS a part of the Swaggart Ministries?
I visited Dry Gulch and rode the Christmas Train last Sunday, December 7th. Before going, I had already heard the complaints about the graphic content of Willie George's testimony. But the film I saw had a very distinct cut in it right after he said that his mother committed suicide and there was absolutely no graphic content. I later asked a friend who is a Church on the Move employee and she said that the film had been re-edited sometime the first week of December to remove the graphic material. The Train is indeed sold out for this year, but I encourage anyone who has a ticket and might be considering not using it because of what they have heard about the film to reconsider. It is still a great family experience with a very professional operation. As for the proselytizing, this entire event is put on by a large evangelical church -- a little evangelism should not come as a surprise to anyone from the Bible Belt. But for those who are turned off by that, it lasts precisely 5 minutes and then you can be on your way.
quote:
Originally posted by lms68
I visited Dry Gulch and rode the Christmas Train last Sunday, December 7th. Before going, I had already heard the complaints about the graphic content of Willie George's testimony. But the film I saw had a very distinct cut in it right after he said that his mother committed suicide and there was absolutely no graphic content. I later asked a friend who is a Church on the Move employee and she said that the film had been re-edited sometime the first week of December to remove the graphic material. The Train is indeed sold out for this year, but I encourage anyone who has a ticket and might be considering not using it because of what they have heard about the film to reconsider. It is still a great family experience with a very professional operation. As for the proselytizing, this entire event is put on by a large evangelical church -- a little evangelism should not come as a surprise to anyone from the Bible Belt. But for those who are turned off by that, it lasts precisely 5 minutes and then you can be on your way.
Hey Look! Somone with one post! I guess the emails must be going around the church! Great welcome to Tulsa Now!
So it was edited? Well great! Thats all that I called and asked them..but really suicide, kids, christmas...isn't that what its about! I guess they still know whats best for our kids....I will have to call them and thank them on monday!
***walking away shaking head****
Glad to know that they edited the film.
Now if only we could get some people to understand that NO church, church activity, or locomotive is inerrant or above criticism and they should appreciate the feedback as opposed to jumping to the conclusion that it is nothing but an attack on their religion and/or church.
Our work here is done!!![:D]
Merry Christmas