Here are the details, per today's TulsaWorld.
TU to host lecture on tap vs. bottled water
The University of Tulsa will host a lecture and discussion titled "Tap/Bottled Water — What are the Facts?" at 7 p.m. Thursday in the Gallery Room of the Allen Chapman Activity Center.
A panel of experts will talk about the purity of bottled water and tap water and respond to audience members' questions and comments.
Panelists include a TU chemistry professor and representatives from the Tulsa Water Department, the Metropolitan Environmental Trust and the International Bottled Water Association.
The lecture is free. For more information, call 631-2515.
I agreed to discus this with a utilities guy before a bunch of college chemistry students. Then the organizer said that the President of a local bottled water company (Ozarka)had been added. Then he further stacked the deck against me by flying in the president of the International Bottled Water Association.
I am not afraid. I plan to use every debate technique possible to win and convince the crowd to stop buying bottled water.
The event is free. There will time for questions and answers. If you have an interest, show up tomorrow night and cheer me on.
RM-
Would you like to borrow a collapsable baton? That's the best debate tool I know of.
Knock 'em out. Bottled water sucks.
Will there be free bottled water?
I'm on the board of directors for a bottle water company. [xx(]
However, I agree with RM. It is totally unnecessary and uses an amazing amount of resources to deliver what is, often, an inferior product (compared to tap/home filtered water). The "big boys" at Ozarka surely use filter their water very finely, then use ozone reverse osmosis, and finally put minerals back in the water to make it taste "clean" (I admit to loving that taste). Their water probably IS more pure than tap water - but such is not the case across the board and the contaminants in tap water are still more heavily regulated and well within safety guidelines.
We do buy bottled water in my house. For hiking, biking, football games, and other such events. We generally refill the water bottled for ~ a week afterwords. I find it prevents me (and my family) from drinking sugar loaded beverages more. We probably buy 1 case every third month, maybe.
BUT, the market research for the company I referenced shows a growing percentage of middle class women refuse to drink tap water. They will order bottled water at a restaurant for $3 instead of getting a free glass of water. Really? Wow.
I really do not see much of an argument for the bottle water company. By way of debate, RM, I see them pointing out that they have lowered the plastic content of their bottles, that they bottle local and thus save on transportation waste, and that the bottles are recyclable. All mitigating factors but their product remains, ultimately, an unneeded and wasteful. convenience.
Does that mean it should be banned? No. Regulated more heavily? I don't think so. But I do think it means people should consider the impact it has both financially and environmentally and limit their use accordingly.
Bottled water is a good option when water is otherwise not available. I refill bottles. If I am going somewhere that I can take a cooler with more water, I will refill the bottle of the day with water from the cooler. I try to treat the bottle like a canteen. I always have several refilled bottles in the refrigerator.
I keep hearing about how some plastics leach chemicals into water. Is there any indication that plastic water bottles leach any chemicals into that water? Would be kind of ironic if they purified the water of harmless things only to bottle it in something that actually makes it a health hazard.
Btw, I never buy bottled water for the "purity". I just get it cause its available when I am thirsty and its much healthier than sodas and less calories than fruit drinks.
Perhaps a .05 per bottle deposit would ensure that far fewer bottles would wind up in our landfills and scattered down our streets.
I buy a bottle every now and then if I'm on the fly and need something for my throat. I will generally refill a bottle until it's ragged. It's useful having them when I row and easier to deal with than a larger Nalgege bottle.
I doubt I buy more than 10 bottles a year since I sold my sail boat. We used to buy more for it, and re-filled them every week to take back to the boat.
Just my .02 on this.
I have seen a few threads on this subject here and in other forums and have some thoughts I'd like to share. Some very good points are always brought up as to the pro's and con's of bottled water. Convenience is the main item, then the plastic bottle itself and filling landfills with them.
For my wife and I it is mainly a matter of convenience for living here in Arizona that we buy bottled water. We buy, depending on the time of year, anywhere from three to six cases (24 to a case or flat) a month. Part of this is for my wifes business as a dog walker and pet sitter. She uses them not only for herself, but also for the dogs that she walks. The ones that the dogs has licked or drank from go into the recycle can at our house. (Almost all of the cities in the valley have recycle programs.)
The other reason is we tend to spend alot of time outdoors at the lake, taking hikes, going to the lake on camping trips with friends, and we like to go and explore alot of the state on the forest roads, where you may spend two to four hours or longer driving through remote areas. When we go to the lake, you may not have access to potable water, and we have taken extensive trips on Lake Powell with friends going 70 miles or more up the lake from Page Arizona. But with any of our excursions, we follow "Pack it in, pack it out" thinking, and tend to leave our camp ground cleaner then when we arrived. (No, we are not left coast tree hugging enviromentalist wackos, we just hope that whoever comes behind us will think the same way)
At home we reuse the bottles until they can't be used any more.
As for the bottles, we found a company in Colorado called Biota (//%22http://www.biotaspringwater.com/%22) that has biodegradeable bottles. While not the perfect answer, it's a step in the right direction.
As for the .05 deposit (I remember as a kid collecting glass pop bottles to take to Git N Go to get an Icee and collecting the bear stamps to get a free Icee) I have been in only one state that I know of that enforces that deposit and it was in Oregon, and if I remember correctly, if you bought a 6 pack of plastic sodas, they charged you .30 on the purchase price, and for every plastic bottle you brought back, you got a .05 discount so there was an incentive to recycle the plastic.
The other point I want to make as to why we buy bottled water is that during the summer months alot of people here take raod trips to San Diego and the LA area to escape the heat, and along I-8 and I-10 you have long stretches of road through the desert that you would be foolish not to take bottled water just in case you have a problem. The hottest tempurature that I have experienced was between Yuma and El Centro where the temp was 129 degrees. (Yes, call me crazy)
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
Why not buy a purifier for home use anyway? It's bound to be less expensive in the long run. Just use it for the drinking water, not the whole house.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I keep hearing about how some plastics leach chemicals into water. Is there any indication that plastic water bottles leach any chemicals into that water?
No. The "dioxin" fear and similar rants of plastic leaching chemicals into water is purely fictional.
So says snopes, trueorfiction, and John Hopkins University:
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/petbottles.asp
http://www.jhsph.edu/dioxins
Yous truck on a pet peeve of mine... forwarding emails without bothering to look it up (you are not guilty of it here, just saying you reminded me of it). Good god man, it takes 2 seconds. I can not resist the urge to email someone back and tell them they are a fool.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
Why not buy a purifier for home use anyway? It's bound to be less expensive in the long run. Just use it for the drinking water, not the whole house.
Excellent point.
I always wondered if common tap water helped us build immunities. We are so disease conscious these days we may be hurting ourselves by not letting our immunities build up.
Isn't our tap water more purified today than say 50 years ago? Maybe not?
Mr. Burns
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
Are you aware that Ozarka bottled is tap water from the fabulous city of Houston, TX?
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
Fact: the white chalky substance is what is commonly referred to as "scale". It's not chicken poop.
Scale is what makes water "hard" and consists of important minerals your body uses: calcium, magnesium, bicarbonates, small amounts of salt, and trace amounts of iron.
But, if it makes you feel better to drink bottled water, more power to you.
When I was pregnant - not too, too long ago, as my son's only 8 - I was told (by either my OB or dentist, someone in a white coat invading my personal space) to drink tap water whenever possible instead of bottled water. Seems that not all bottled water has fluoride to match what comes out of the tap... and the baby leeches some of the mother's vitamin and mineral stores, making good fluoride intake essential to prevent tooth decay (and also to help in development of baby's dental system).
That said, we buy bottled water now for convenience. Drink tap water at home, make lemonade and ice with it, fill son's sports bottles with it - but keep a case in the trunk of the car to grab when on the run.
What would bottles of water have to debate about? Who are the participants? Aquafina and Ozarka?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I keep hearing about how some plastics leach chemicals into water. Is there any indication that plastic water bottles leach any chemicals into that water?
No. The "dioxin" fear and similar rants of plastic leaching chemicals into water is purely fictional.
So says snopes, trueorfiction, and John Hopkins University:
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/petbottles.asp
http://www.jhsph.edu/dioxins
Yous truck on a pet peeve of mine... forwarding emails without bothering to look it up (you are not guilty of it here, just saying you reminded me of it). Good god man, it takes 2 seconds. I can not resist the urge to email someone back and tell them they are a fool.
Not being a scientist myself, I thought the fear of leaching in plasitcs was the bisphenol A. Is this the same as the dioxin that you mentioned?
What about personal aluminum water bottles to provide the convenience and avoid the plastics?
SIGG is a popular brand.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
Fact: the white chalky substance is what is commonly referred to as "scale". It's not chicken poop.
Scale is what makes water "hard" and consists of important minerals your body uses: calcium, magnesium, bicarbonates, small amounts of salt, and trace amounts of iron.
I find it hard to believe Hawkins comments were made seriously, but if they were, he is truly a marketer's dream, falling for all the urban myths and internet nonsense about tap water. I think bottled water is the greatest scam since "patent medicines," a pure convenience item I would only use in emergencies when absolutely nothing else was available.
Tulsa tap water is just dandy to me. I removed the "PUR" water filter from my kitchen faucet about 1 year ago because the filters are just so overpriced and I have had no taste or odor problems with my tap water in over 3 years. Your body needs that "scale," but you could always waste more money on mineral supplements.
What about the lost benefits of fluoridation? I have read and seen on TV multiple times over the past few years that tooth decay and dental disease, especially among young people, has risen in direct proportion or greater to the consumption of bottled water.
Hey, anyone who believes Tulsa water is bad, I'd be happy to sell them over-priced softening or RO/DI systems for their home. It will pay for itself in soap and water savings in about 30 years. [}:)]
Industrial RO/DI/Demin/Softening is ancillary to our primary bidness.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
Fact: the white chalky substance is what is commonly referred to as "scale". It's not chicken poop.
Scale is what makes water "hard" and consists of important minerals your body uses: calcium, magnesium, bicarbonates, small amounts of salt, and trace amounts of iron.
I find it hard to believe Hawkins comments were made seriously, but if they were, he is truly a marketer's dream, falling for all the urban myths and internet nonsense about tap water. I think bottled water is the greatest scam since "patent medicines," a pure convenience item I would only use in emergencies when absolutely nothing else was available.
Tulsa tap water is just dandy to me. I removed the "PUR" water filter from my kitchen faucet about 1 year ago because the filters are just so overpriced and I have had no taste or odor problems with my tap water in over 3 years. Your body needs that "scale," but you could always waste more money on mineral supplements.
What about the lost benefits of fluoridation? I have read and seen on TV multiple times over the past few years that tooth decay and dental disease, especially among young people, has risen in direct proportion or greater to the consumption of bottled water.
I'm a big believer in flouridation. My dental hygiene is not so good. So it must be all the tap water I drink that's keeping my teeth in good shape.
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?
^ Because of all of the mind control? Um, yes I see the error of my ways now. I will kill all humans as you have commanded.
Do you realize that in addition to fluoridated water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream? Ice cream, Mandrake. Children's ice cream?
I found this (//%22http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm%22) on the interwebs.
by Paul Connett, PhD
Professor of Chemistry
St. Lawrence University
Canton, NY 13617
Paul Connett is one of the world's leading experts in waste management. He is also a Professor of Chemistry at St Lawrence University in Canton, New York.
Animal experiments show that fluoride accumulates in the brain and exposure alters mental behavior in a manner consistent with a neurotoxic agent (Mullenix 1995). Rats dosed prenatally demonstrated hyperactive behavior. Those dosed postnatally demonstrated hypoactivity (i.e. under activity or "couch potato" syndrome). More recent animal experiments have reported that fluoride can damage the brain (Wang 1997; Guan 1998; Varner 1998; Zhao 1998; Zhang 1999; Lu 2000; Shao 2000; Sun 2000; Bhatnagar 2002; Chen 2002, 2003; Long 2002; Shivarajashankara 2002a, b; Shashi 2003 and Zhai 2003) and impact learning and behavior (Paul 1998; Zhang 1999, 2001; Sun 2000; Ekambaram 2001; Bhatnagar 2002).
You know when fluoridation first began?
Nineteen hundred and forty six. Nineteen fortysix, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your postwar commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard core commie works.
Do you realize this is your 666 post?
Purity Of Essence
Potatoes! That's what they use. No, one should only imbibe grain spirits.
But as for me, I'm not worried. I've learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.
- - -
Per Hawkins:
Tulsa tap water has very little, if any chicken poop in it. Mainly because there are few operations in this immediate area. They are largely south and east of us, also known as "downstream." northern Oklahoma, Kansas, and Colorado are not known as hotbeds for poultry.
What's more, our water sits for long periods of time. The phospohrus in the chicken litter would be largely consumed by algae blooms. What was left is filter out and then decontaminated with various processees. Which are then confirmed by mandatory testing.
The scale you see are hard water minerals. Calcium, salts, mangesium, and trace amounts of flouride and chlorine, as well as various other trace minerals. The same minerals you eat in vitamins, the same minerals added to your ozarka water. I've drank from glacial streams, aquafers, and lakes donkey in the middle of Canada. Tulsa water is just fine but-for some off taste ("pool") when they keep algae and bacterial blooms in check in the early summer. The health aspects of it are just fine.
And for dogs... Really? My dog prefers Arkansas river water, a horse trough, or Budweiser to bottle water. It's a dog, there is no accounting for taste.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Purity Of Essence
I was stationed at Burpleson Air Force Base. Flew many a mission with Maj. Kong guided by General Jack D. Ripper. Still have my survival kit and instructions.
Survival kit contents check. In them you'll find: one forty-five caliber automatic; two boxes of ammunition; four days' concentrated emergency rations; one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills; one miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible; one hundred dollars in rubles; one hundred dollars in gold; nine packs of chewing gum; one issue of prophylactics; three lipsticks; three pair of nylon stockings. Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
Until I started my diet at the first of the year, I thought that anyone that bought bottle water was a nut. I pay for water thru my wonderful utilty company so why buy bottles. Well I now am a bottle buyer and user. Until now my body had to make due and filter it's own water thru what I gave it. i.e. Beer or soda(pop)I still truly cannot tell the difference between Dasani,Auqafina etc.etc.etc. And if they think I'm paying that Fiji price they are nut's. If the plasic in the bottles seems to bother everyone(at this time)I have a feeling that after the trend of buying bottled water slows down to where we all just take it as we do, let's say disposable diapers. The issue of money over planet will die down also. I also remember a couple of years back I could not even buy a can of freon and now since they have changed the type of freon(which I had to convert my old car to.$$$)I can now buy freon again. I am not against recycling,conservation or anything else to help the planet but I harken back to my Dad always saying that this planet was around long before I got here and I have a feeling it's going to be around a lot longer after I'm gone.
Oh also, So far 35 lbs lost.
quote:
Originally posted by DolfanBob
Oh also, So far 35 lbs lost.
Good job, congratuations on the weight loss. What ever your doing seems to be working so keep doing it. Hurrah.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
Are you aware that Ozarka bottled is tap water from the fabulous city of Houston, TX?
You're confused. That's Aquafina.
Ozarka "Spring Water" cannot be spring water if its source is a city tap.
--
Look guys, I don't know why conducting my own experiment is considered a marketer's dream.
But seriously, with all the publicity about the poultry lawsuit, why do wouldn't I think something is wrong with Tulsa's water supply?
Anyway, the boiling test proves that spring water contains less chemicals than the tap water. I'll take my water with less chemicals, thanks.
Anyone attend this seminar? I wonder what the consensus was amongst the scientific faculty who spoke.
Did anyone see this article about the recent water conference and the taste test?
Tulsa World (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20081015_11_A9_JudgeD421050%22)
Tulsa finished in a second-place tie with Arkansas' Center Grove district at 51 points but then lost a playoff round for the official runner-up designation.
There was a tasting competition at the conference last night.
Five blind samples...water from Tulsa tap north of I-44, south of I-44, Ozarka, Fiji, and Best Choice.
Tulsa tap water from north (Mohawk plant) was first, Fiji and Tulsa tap from south tied for second, best choice was fourth and Ozarka was last.
The Ozarka guy said "ouch" when they announced the results.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I've boiled them down myself, and that Tulsa tap water will cover the bottom of the pot with a layer of white chalky substance.
All the bottled waters leave a smaller amount of white residue, and the Ozarka Spring Water leaves almost nothing behind when it boils.
So lecture me all you want, I'm only drinking Ozarka.
I won't even give my dog that Tulsa tap water. Nasty, nasty chicken poop, chemical-laden liquid. Absolutely never going to drink it.
If they take bottled water off the shelf, I'd buy a purifier before ingesting it.
Are you aware that Ozarka bottled is tap water from the fabulous city of Houston, TX?
You're confused. That's Aquafina.
Ozarka "Spring Water" cannot be spring water if its source is a city tap.
--
Look guys, I don't know why conducting my own experiment is considered a marketer's dream.
But seriously, with all the publicity about the poultry lawsuit, why do wouldn't I think something is wrong with Tulsa's water supply?
Anyway, the boiling test proves that spring water contains less chemicals than the tap water. I'll take my water with less chemicals, thanks.
Anyone attend this seminar? I wonder what the consensus was amongst the scientific faculty who spoke.
Minerals, not chemicals.
No offense, but your experiment "proves" that there is more residue left behind when you boil the two waters. Some chemicals readily boil away, or even dissipate from standing water (chlorine). Still others leave no visible residue.
I understand your concerns, but honestly the vendors at the fair face far more scrutiny than a bottled water company.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?
I think this one is always so funny. I'm not one to blindly trust our government, and I do belive some of the conspiracy theories out there (yes big brother is watching), but the flouride thing is just ridiculous.
I am no scientist, but I would think that if we have been putting flouride in our water for over 50 years, and it were that bad for us, then we would see more people experienceing detrimental effects, aside from having good teeth. What a shame we should have good teeth.
Yes, flouride is a poison, and will kill you, but only if you ingest high doses, larger than you could possibly aquire from tap water. You would get poisoned by the water before the flouride.
Just curious for any of you that may know the correct answer. I live in midtown, at 26th Street South and Yale. Does my tap water come from the Mohawk plant, the Jewel plant, or a mix? No complaints from me, as my Tulsa tap water is mighty tasty and great to me. Just curious as to the source.
Your water comes from Mohawk
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Purity Of Essence
You've been playing too much Starcraft.
quote:
Originally posted by wordherder
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
Purity Of Essence
You've been playing too much Starcraft.
It's from the movie Dr. Strangelove....
"In Ripper's office at Burpelson Air Force Base, Mandrake studies doodles on a notepad left on Ripper's desk - the jumble of words that filled Ripper's mind in his last few hours make the code's discovery difficult - P e a c e O n E a r t h and P u r i t y O f E s s e n c e form interlocking, crossword-like patterns. Arbitrarily, Mandrake whispers the letters: "O P E." They are twisted permutations of the recall code. "