An astute Letter to the Editor in today's Lorton's World has put his finger on a design problem with the prospective Tulsa Drillers downtown stadium.
The current Driller Stadium, like virtually all major and minor league baseball stadiums, have a north-east orientation, with the batter in the SW corner of the diamond.
The letter writer remarks that all the artist renderings of the new downtown Driller ballpark show the ball diamond with home plate on the north and the catcher, batter, and fans facing south?
There are several reasons that nearly all ballparks locate home plate at the southwest corner. The prevailing wind in the summer is from the south, and batters will be hitting against the wind in the proposed Driller stadium design, resulting in fewer homeruns, and a dull "Pitchers" game.
Additionally, fans will be looking into the sun during day games.
However, the writer wryly notes that the fans would have a very good view of downtown, and wonders if that afterall is the designers intention.....
Isn't it really all just about downtown?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectID=62&articleID=20080930_7_A14_spanc21171
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
An astute Letter to the Editor in today's Lorton's World has put his finger on a design problem with the prospective Tulsa Drillers downtown stadium.
The current Driller Stadium, like virtually all major and minor league baseball stadiums, have a north-east orientation, with the batter in the SW corner of the diamond.
The letter writer remarks that all the artist renderings of the new downtown Driller ballpark show the ball diamond with home plate on the north and the catcher, batter, and fans facing south?
There are several reasons that nearly all ballparks locate home plate at the southwest corner. The prevailing wind in the summer is from the south, and batters will be hitting against the wind in the proposed Driller stadium design, resulting in fewer homeruns, and a dull "Pitchers" game.
Additionally, fans will be looking into the sun during day games.
However, the writer wryly notes that the fans would have a very good view of downtown, and wonders if that afterall is the designers intention.....
Isn't it really all just about downtown?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectID=62&articleID=20080930_7_A14_spanc21171
I don't know, the writer may be right. Maybe its all about downtown. Is that so bad? But some comments don't really jibe. The wind downtown is capricious. If you are on the river the prevailing wind will be from South/southeast. But downtown is on a hill filled with tall buildings. The wind is affected by all the buildings and swirls every which way. That would mean a fielders nightmare and a hitters bonanza. Excitement.
As far as the sun in fans eyes, the sun is in everyones eyes during the day. In the evening it might be in the fans eyes but once again the buildings to the West of the stadium would block it.
There are very few guidelines for official field layouts and I doubt there are any for orientation. Stadiums were often shoehorned into downtown locations which made for interesting shapes.
I swear I've seen you on here before, yet you apparently don't read the forum. The orientation is for fitment on the land and view as well as the fact this stadium will have berm seating in the outfield so you have to face the stadium a bit abnormally so that those in the berm are not facing west into the sun.
You are sooooo naive. Those were just generic images. It will be an iconic stadium having a large glass wall on one side and wind blocking elements on the others. Something along these lines...
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/119/stadiumaerialstadiumsouri9.jpg)
shhhhh! Don't point that out to them....doing that might cause them to succeed!
The writer and Friendly Bear are both wrong.
Downtown streets are not straight north/south or east/west.
Home plate will be facing southwest, not due south.
I am not surprised that Friendly Bear starts a thread complaining with incorrect information. He is so often wrong, he even gives other bears a bad name.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Home plate will be facing southwest, not due south.
that will make it worse won't it, since the sun sets in the west? that means those on the "east" side of the stadium will be looking directly into the sun.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
The writer and Friendly Bear are both wrong.
Home plate will be facing southwest, not due south.
If the line between home plate and the pitcher's mound is parallel with Elgin Ave. -- i.e., aligned with the "north-south" axis on downtown's tilted grid -- then the batter will actually be looking about 25 degrees east of south (heading 155).
If the first base line is parallel with Elgin, then the batter will be looking 20 degrees south of east (heading 110).
quote:
Originally posted by Juan Mad Okie
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Home plate will be facing southwest, not due south.
that will make it worse won't it, since the sun sets in the west? that means those on the "east" side of the stadium will be looking directly into the sun.
I think he meant Southeast, not Southwest.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
The writer and Friendly Bear are both wrong.
Downtown streets are not straight north/south or east/west.
Home plate will be facing southwest, not due south.
I am not surprised that Friendly Bear starts a thread complaining with incorrect information. He is so often wrong, he even gives other bears a bad name.
Where did my post talk about alignment with STREETS?
You mentioned street alignment. Not me.
The downtown grid of streets are offset from a true North-South orientation. Hills.
You guys find the most inane arguments to address then spend pages sniping at each other. This boils down to one issue: Downtown vs suburbia.
One group hates downtown and nothing done there, no amount of money spent there and no efforts to improve it may be justified especially with a Democratic Mayor and Council. Their solution? Build a dome over downtown and pay Flint to pump it full of concrete. Paint smiley face on top.
The other group hates suburbia. Nothing done there, no amount of money spent there and no improvement in roads or infrastructure is justified. Their solution? Make the BA and Riverside pay toll roads and cut them off through de-annexation. Refuse to sell water to them at subsidized rates. Paint frowning face on surrounding billboards.
Isn't this the real basis for these clown threads?
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
Where did my post talk about alignment with STREETS?
You mentioned street alignment. Not me.
The downtown grid of streets are offset from a true North-South orientation. Hills.
You started a thread calling a writer astute, even though his information was incorrect.
I guess you didn't mention streets, but just passed on bogus data.
Northeast is the traditional orientation but there's no rule saying that fields have to point that way. And nobody should be hiding from the fact that the orientation of the stadium involved aesthetic considerations (view) as well as most efficient fit in the tight site.
Interestingly, Omaha just had the exact same discussion and settled on the same orientation Tulsa will have: southeast.
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10419686
The Drillers play Sunday games at 2:05 in the afternoon, and typically have 2 weekday afternoon games per season. It's not as though they're having them in the morning. The angle of the sun will be fine for batters and fielders, and fans will both be more comfortable and have a better view of Tulsa's lovely skyline while they enjoy the game.
And yes, this ballpark IS all about downtown. There's nothing wrong with planning a public venue so that it takes full advantage of its environment and surroundings. If the College World Series can use a southeast orientation, it should satisfy the baseball purists that everything will be okay.
EDIT: Here's a graphic showing what sun angles are like for a south-southeast oriented ballpark.
(http://www.omaha.com/neo-images/photos/large/0829lsshine.jpg)
Thanks Floyd.
When I get my season tickets, now I want the first base side for those Sunday 2:05 games.
I get pink in the summer sun. It is my delcate nature.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
You are sooooo naive. Those were just generic images. It will be an iconic stadium having a large glass wall on one side and wind blocking elements on the others. Something along these lines...
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/119/stadiumaerialstadiumsouri9.jpg)
Interesting drawing. I hope your neck is not still keeping you out of work, giving you way too much time off.
I'm having deja vu all over again.
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc
I'm having deja vu all over again.
No doubt. Do we have to have the same conversation every few weeks? Of course, look who started the thread...
Major league ballparks with home plate in the northwest corner of the stadium like the new Drillers ballpark:
Texas Rangers (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Rangers+Ballpark+in+Arlington,+Arlington,+Tarrant,+Texas+76011,+United+States&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.310476,78.398437&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FQC_8wEdRKM2-g&ll=32.751324,-97.082598&spn=0.006443,0.00957&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=32.75132,-97.0826%22) (northwest corner)
Pittsburgh Pirates (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=PNC+Park,+Pittsburgh&sll=32.707494,-117.157358&sspn=0.006446,0.00957&ie=UTF8&ll=40.447029,-80.005145&spn=0.00583,0.00957&t=h&z=17%22) (northwest corner)
Cincinnati Reds (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Great+American+Ballpark,+Cincinnati&sll=39.226312,-84.324061&sspn=0.367019,0.612488&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16%22) (northwest corner)
Chicago White Sox (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Comisky+Park,+Chicago&ie=UTF8&ll=41.829529,-87.633476&spn=0.005708,0.00957&t=h&z=17%22) (northwest corner)
Detroit Tigers (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Comerica+PArk,+Detroit&ie=UTF8&ll=42.339704,-83.047274&spn=0.005662,0.00957&t=h&z=17%22) (northwest corner)
Milwaukee Brewers (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Miller+Park,+Milwaukee&ie=UTF8&ll=43.027428,-87.971327&spn=0.010823,0.01914&t=h&z=16%22) (northwest corner)
And a couple with home plate due west:
San Francisco Giants (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=AT%26T+Park,+San+Francisco&ie=UTF8&ll=37.778657,-122.38916&spn=0.003027,0.004785&t=h&z=18%22) (due west)
New York Yankees (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Yankee+Stadium&ie=UTF8&ll=40.827019,-73.926787&spn=0.005797,0.00957&t=h&z=17%22) (due west)
Home plate does
NOT have to be located in the southwest corner of the stadium.
End of story.