I'm glad he has switched. I have more respect for him now.
"I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated," Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. "I've already said it's succeeded beyond our wildest dreams."
He still had to throw in the "our" rather than just saying "my wildest dreams." He must have a mouse in his pocket. With the exception of Pelosi and Reed who still claim the war is lost, I think he was one of the last hold-outs.
Good for you Barak! You're learning more every day.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
I'm glad he has switched. I have more respect for him now.
"I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated," Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. "I've already said it's succeeded beyond our wildest dreams."
He still had to throw in the "our" rather than just saying "my wildest dreams." He must have a mouse in his pocket. With the exception of Pelosi and Reed who still claim the war is lost, I think he was one of the last hold-outs.
Good for you Barak! You're learning more every day.
You blew off my thread on this subject? [:)]
As for "learning more every day"...hey Barack, how about those Penn State "Nittaly" Lions:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FQLTekcur-E
Any people think Palin is Dan Quayle.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
I'm glad he has switched. I have more respect for him now.
"I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated," Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. "I've already said it's succeeded beyond our wildest dreams."
He still had to throw in the "our" rather than just saying "my wildest dreams." He must have a mouse in his pocket. With the exception of Pelosi and Reed who still claim the war is lost, I think he was one of the last hold-outs.
Good for you Barak! You're learning more every day.
I doubt that even with another 15 or 20 years of seasoning, he'd be qualified to be Commander in Chief.
He's core belief are rooted in Marxist-Leninism.
He's a commie.
No, he's not.
Really, he's not.
But O'Reilly's a tool. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
No, he's not.
Really, he's not.
But O'Reilly's a tool. [}:)]
Have you noticed the number of posts FB is putting out denouncing the Democratic party?
Hmmm....
And Repubs say the Demos are 'sh*tting themselves'.
I'd say they're looking in the mirror right now and panicking, wondering what the next news cycle holds for their dear Veep choice.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
No, he's not.
Really, he's not.
But O'Reilly's a tool. [}:)]
Have you noticed the number of posts FB is putting out denouncing the Democratic party?
Hmmm....
And Repubs say the Demos are 'sh*tting themselves'.
I'd say they're looking in the mirror right now and panicking, wondering what the next news cycle holds for their dear Veep choice.
Obama is the CANDIDATE of the Democratic Party.
That political party has been captured by the hard-core Left Wing of the Party.
I'm getting hungry. It's about lunch time.
Getting that Chicken Lickin' kind of hungry. Thinking about the new KFC special:
The MICHELLE:
TWO left wings.
TWO small breasts.
Dark meat only.
One crumpet.
$4.99.
[:P]
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
No, he's not.
Really, he's not.
But O'Reilly's a tool. [}:)]
Have you noticed the number of posts FB is putting out denouncing the Democratic party?
Hmmm....
And Repubs say the Demos are 'sh*tting themselves'.
I'd say they're looking in the mirror right now and panicking, wondering what the next news cycle holds for their dear Veep choice.
Obama is the CANDIDATE of the Democratic Party.
That political party has been captured by the hard-core Left Wing of the Party.
I'm getting hungry. It's about lunch time.
Getting that Chicken Lickin' kind of hungry. Thinking about the new KFC special:
The MICHELLE:
TWO left wings.
TWO small breasts.
Dark meat only.
One crumpet.
$4.99.
[:P]
You're such a racist, sexist pig! The stress of having to support "Cotton" McCain has gotten to you. The more you post, the obvious it is.
Hey, did you hear? McCain saw Tropic Thunder last week and he wants some of those injections that change your pigmentation to look like Kirk Lazarus(Robert Downey Jr.)! Since no one with any real pigmentation is voting for him this year he thinks this might do it. Like when he stole the "change" theme and the "This is about YOU!" tag. Then gettin' one a them women folk on the ticket like Hillary only with a gun.
Yeah, I might start getting henkie too...
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by USRufnex
No, he's not.
Really, he's not.
But O'Reilly's a tool. [}:)]
Have you noticed the number of posts FB is putting out denouncing the Democratic party?
Hmmm....
And Repubs say the Demos are 'sh*tting themselves'.
I'd say they're looking in the mirror right now and panicking, wondering what the next news cycle holds for their dear Veep choice.
Obama is the CANDIDATE of the Democratic Party.
That political party has been captured by the hard-core Left Wing of the Party.
I'm getting hungry. It's about lunch time.
Getting that Chicken Lickin' kind of hungry. Thinking about the new KFC special:
The MICHELLE:
TWO left wings.
TWO small breasts.
Dark meat only.
One crumpet.
$4.99.
[:P]
You're such a racist, sexist pig! The stress of having to support "Cotton" McCain has gotten to you. The more you post, the obvious it is.
Hey, did you hear? McCain saw Tropic Thunder last week and he wants some of those injections that change your pigmentation to look like Kirk Lazarus(Robert Downey Jr.)! Since no one with any real pigmentation is voting for him this year he thinks this might do it. Like when he stole the "change" theme and the "This is about YOU!" tag. Then gettin' one a them women folk on the ticket like Hillary only with a gun.
Yeah, I might start getting henkie too...
He stays out the sun now, having had four bouts with skin cancer.
See, his skin didn't get much sunlight for those 5 1/2 years spent rotting in a 6 x 4 foot prison cell........
Did I mention he received the Silver Star for Heroism?
Distinguished Flying Cross.
Bronze Star for Bravery.
Obama received the Purple Order of the Tired Tonsils (POTT), after the last 18 months spent campaigning for a job he wasn't ready for.
Biden received the Distinguished Plagiarism Cross, with Oakleaf Cluster (for SECOND act of Plagiarism).
SEE, all have received commendations.
[:O]
By your standards, county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president. At least VP. Lotta' vets in those groups.
McCain's POW experience is all you got?
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
By your standards, county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president.
Well, it would be
change.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
By your standards, county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president.
Well, it would be change.
They manage quite well as long as you give them your change.[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
By your standards, county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president. At least VP. Lotta' vets in those groups.
McCain's POW experience is all you got?
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" attended and graduated the United States Navel Academy and became a navy pilot.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" flew combat missions for their country and got shot down in vietnam. I doubt they fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned in a lake.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" regained consciousness, and then had their shoulder crushed with a rifle butt and then were bayoneted.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" were refused medical treatment and instead beat and interrogated.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" were then taken taken to a hospital to receive maginal care so they could be used for propaganda purposes.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" were then sent to a different camp where they were put into solitary confinement for two years.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" declined an offer of early release because they again did not want to be used as political propaganda.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" were again subjected to severe torture, including rope bindings and repeated beatings.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" received injuries that left them permanently incapable of raising their arms above their head.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" would later return to the United States and undergo painful rehabilitation for their injuries and attend the National War College at Fort McNair.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" would then get their flight status reinstated and become a commanding officer of a training squadron where they improved the unit's flight readiness and safety records and won the squadron its first-ever Meritorious Unit Commendation.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" would then serve as the Navy's liaison to the U.S. Senate and then retire from the Navy as a captain with their 17 military awards and decorations include the Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star and Navy Commendation Medal, for actions before, during, and after their time as a POW
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" later ran and were elected to the U.S. Senate.
Do you realize what you are trying to argue? Are you so partisan, that you actually believe what you are saying? If so, YOU need to immediately check yourself into a mental health facility and start coming back to reality.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
By your standards, county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president. At least VP. Lotta' vets in those groups.
McCain's POW experience is all you got?
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" attended and graduated the United States Navel Academy and became a navy pilot.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" flew combat missions for their country and got shot down in vietnam. I doubt they fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned in a lake.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" regained consciousness, and then had their shoulder crushed with a rifle butt and then were bayoneted.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" were refused medical treatment and instead beat and interrogated.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" were then taken taken to a hospital to receive maginal care so they could be used for propaganda purposes.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" were then sent to a different camp where they were put into solitary confinement for two years.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" declined an offer of early release because they again did not want to be used as political propaganda.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" were again subjected to severe torture, including rope bindings and repeated beatings.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" received injuries that left them permanently incapable of raising their arms above their head.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" would later return to the United States and undergo painful rehabilitation for their injuries and attend the National War College at Fort McNair.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" would then get their flight status reinstated and become a commanding officer of a training squadron where they improved the unit's flight readiness and safety records and won the squadron its first-ever Meritorious Unit Commendation.
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" would then serve as the Navy's liaison to the U.S. Senate and then retire from the Navy as a captain with their 17 military awards and decorations include the Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star and Navy Commendation Medal, for actions before, during, and after their time as a POW
I doubt "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities" later ran and were elected to the U.S. Senate.
Do you realize what you are trying to argue? Are you so partisan, that you actually believe what you are saying? If so, YOU need to immediately check yourself into a mental health facility and start coming back to reality.
+1 to MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
By your standards, county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president.
Well, it would be change.
Putting criminals in the whitehouse wouldn't be change.
I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?
I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.
Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?
I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.
Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.
I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.
Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?
I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.
Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.
I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.
Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.
I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.
Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.
I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.
Let's recap.... you wrongly assumed that FB stated that "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president. At least VP. Lotta' vets in those groups."
I then pointed out how McCain's experience was different than your "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities".
You then stated that I did not know "just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?"
I then listed two people (Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi) who I know are either sitting under a bridge somewhere or are in rehab. Neither of these people have any of the qualifications to be VP and then challenged you to find just one person under a bridge or in rehab that had graduated from the United States Navel Academy.
You then instead retreated in your arguement to
wondering about nuance and sarcasm. Then you declined my challege to find anyone that graduated from the United States Naval Academy in "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities".
I'll tell you what, why don't you take your generalizations, your sarcasm and your nuance, put them in your pocket and go paddle around in your little boat on the Arkansas river.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?
I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.
Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.
I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.
Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.
I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.
Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.
I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.
Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.
But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process
How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?
His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?
It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?
I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.
Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.
I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.
Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.
I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.
Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.
I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.
Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.
But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process
How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?
His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?
It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.
23 Missions over North Vietnam in only 20 HOURS!
Must have been on Afterburner the entire time!
No wonder he crashed into Hanoi. Ran out of gas half-way there and back....
Regarding his standing at the U.S. Naval Academy:
BECAUSE his Father and Grandfather were Admirals, McCain was frequently bullied and demeaned by jealous upper classmen at the Academy. He was extremely rebellious in response.
His final class standing was not solely due to academics, although some might be pushing their agenda to promote the idea that he is a dim bulb.
His DEMERITS were factored into his final class standing. Not just his grades.
For any draft dodgers, 4-F Failures or Deserters who may not know, a U.S. Military Academy develops future MILITARY
LEADERS. Eisenhower.
Patton.
Halsey.
Nimitz.
Schartzkopf.
Petraeus
So the U.S. can, like:
WIN WARS.
WIN WARS.WIN.Not,
LOSE WARS.That sort of matters.
Character matters in Military Leadership.
ALWAYS.
Not just who got the highest grade on Civics or Home Economics.
Or, who has the best Teleprompter skills.
Or, the winningest smile.
Character is as equally important as competence, education, or experience in Leadership.
Pres. Clinton was competent. But character? No doubts there.
Character matters.
McCain has it now. And, had it when it mattered.
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?
I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.
Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.
I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.
Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.
I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.
Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.
I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.
Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.
But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process
How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?
His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?
It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.
23 Missions over North Vietnam in only 20 HOURS!
Must have been on Afterburner the entire time!
No wonder he crashed into Hanoi. Ran out of gas half-way there and back....
Regarding his standing at the U.S. Naval Academy:
BECAUSE his Father and Grandfather were Admirals, McCain was frequently bullied and demeaned by jealous upper classmen at the Academy. He was extremely rebellious in response.
His final class standing was not solely due to academics, although some might be pushing their agenda to promote the idea that he is a dim bulb.
His DEMERITS were factored into his final class standing. Not just his grades.
For any draft dodgers, 4-F Failures or Deserters who may not know, a U.S. Military Academy develops future MILITARY LEADERS.
So the U.S. can, like: WIN WARS.
WIN WARS.
WIN.
Not, LOSE WARS.
That sort of matters. Character matters. ALWAYS.
Not just who got the highest grade on Civics or Economics. Or, who has the best Teleprompter skills. Or, the most charming smile.
Character is as equally important as competence, education, or experience.
Pres. Clinton was competent. But character? No doubts there.
Character matters. Always.
McCain had character when it mattered.
Win Wars even when the Generals and advisors tell you the situation is unwinable.
FB, you need to team up with Dumbya on 1-21-09 and go on tour as Grin and Bear It.
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?
I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.
Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.
I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.
Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.
I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.
Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.
I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.
Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.
But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process
How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?
His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?
It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.
23 Missions over North Vietnam in only 20 HOURS!
Must have been on Afterburner the entire time!
No wonder he crashed into Hanoi. Ran out of gas half-way there and back....
Regarding his standing at the U.S. Naval Academy:
BECAUSE his Father and Grandfather were Admirals, McCain was frequently bullied and demeaned by jealous upper classmen at the Academy. He was extremely rebellious in response.
His final class standing was not solely due to academics, although some might be pushing their agenda to promote the idea that he is a dim bulb.
His DEMERITS were factored into his final class standing. Not just his grades.
For any draft dodgers, 4-F Failures or Deserters who may not know, a U.S. Military Academy develops future MILITARY LEADERS.
Eisenhower.
Patton.
Halsey.
Nimitz.
Schartzkopf.
Petraeus
So the U.S. can, like: WIN WARS.
WIN WARS.
WIN.
Not, LOSE WARS.
That sort of matters. Character matters in Military Leadership.
ALWAYS.
Not just who got the highest grade on Civics or Home Economics.
Or, who has the best Teleprompter skills.
Or, the winningest smile.
Character is as equally important as competence, education, or experience in Leadership.
Pres. Clinton was competent. But character? No doubts there.
Character matters.
McCain has it now. And, had it when it mattered.
Oh, you mean character like little Bush transferring from the Texas National Air guard to the Alabama National Air Guard to work a political campaign and never showing up for duty?
Or character like cheating on and then leaving your disfigured wife who stood by you while you were a POW for a much younger hotter and richer woman whose daddy was going to get you into congress? McCain, divorced in April and married in May. No less than Nancy Reagan absolutely hates McCain because of that little sordid tale, as did her husband, and who was he again?
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
Win Wars even when the Generals and advisors tell you the situation is unwinable.
FB, you need to team up with Dumbya on 1-21-09 and go on tour as Grin and Bear It.
Where did I say I approved of the conduct of the Iraq War?
I don't think that either McCain or Obama approve of the conduct of the War.
In our somewhat functioning Democracy, the General and Admirals still report to the National Command Authority:
The Civilians.
The Civilians (the ELECTED President and his advisors) make the final decisions.
You know, timing is sometimes everything.
If Sen. John Kerry's or Barack Obama presidential election campaign had been in a 2006 Presidential Election, GWBush would have LOST the election due to the unpopularity of the War.
But, it wasn't. It's now.
McCain is not Bush.
He was not part of the Bush Administration.
Remember, he and the Shrub were Rivals.
But you know, honorable men after an election defeat congratulate the Winner, and let the political divisions heal and move on.
Kerry did it in 2004. Gore eventually, belatedly did it in 2000. As, did John McCain in 2000 GOP Primary.
Will Obama be able to heal the political rifts that are necessary for a nation if he loses?
Based on the unbalanced histrionics of his supporters in this Forum, I suspect that if he really has one iota in common with the content of their character that he lacks the necessary CHARACTER to do what is necessary to heal those divisions after political defeat.
Seriously, those in the know, expect instead a political Pity Party November 5, followed by riots in most major cities.
This is no joke.
Just wait and see.......
[:(!]
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by swake
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?
I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.
Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.
I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.
Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.
I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.
Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.
I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.
Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.
But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process
How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?
His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?
It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.
23 Missions over North Vietnam in only 20 HOURS!
Must have been on Afterburner the entire time!
No wonder he crashed into Hanoi. Ran out of gas half-way there and back....
Regarding his standing at the U.S. Naval Academy:
BECAUSE his Father and Grandfather were Admirals, McCain was frequently bullied and demeaned by jealous upper classmen at the Academy. He was extremely rebellious in response.
His final class standing was not solely due to academics, although some might be pushing their agenda to promote the idea that he is a dim bulb.
His DEMERITS were factored into his final class standing. Not just his grades.
For any draft dodgers, 4-F Failures or Deserters who may not know, a U.S. Military Academy develops future MILITARY LEADERS.
Eisenhower.
Patton.
Halsey.
Nimitz.
Schartzkopf.
Petraeus
So the U.S. can, like: WIN WARS.
WIN WARS.
WIN.
Not, LOSE WARS.
That sort of matters. Character matters in Military Leadership.
ALWAYS.
Not just who got the highest grade on Civics or Home Economics.
Or, who has the best Teleprompter skills.
Or, the winningest smile.
Character is as equally important as competence, education, or experience in Leadership.
Pres. Clinton was competent. But character? No doubts there.
Character matters.
McCain has it now. And, had it when it mattered.
Oh, you mean character like little Bush transferring from the Texas National Air guard to the Alabama National Air Guard to work a political campaign and never showing up for duty?
Or character like cheating on and then leaving your disfigured wife who stood by you while you were a POW for a much younger hotter and richer woman whose daddy was going to get you into congress? McCain, divorced in April and married in May. No less than Nancy Reagan absolutely hates McCain because of that little sordid tale, as did her husband, and who was he again?
I'm sorry to say, that I don't think you're going to get another chance to vote against GWBush for President.
The Democrats are pushing that line in this election.
McCain isn't Bush.
We'll see if it sells Nov. 4..........
"Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.
But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process
How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?
His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?
It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy."
You're not even close. I suggest you should read some more.
Not everyone gets into the United States Naval Academy. Even if you do get in, you do have to do the work to graduate. It is also well known that McCain, was a friend and informal leader for many of his classmates, and sometimes stood up for people who were being bullied.He also became a lightweight boxer.While there, McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel because he did not always obey the rules. This rule breaking contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899). He did well in subjects that interested him but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with. Regardless, McCain graduated in 1958.
After graduating, McCain requested a combat assignment,and was assigned to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal flying A-4 Skyhawks. He was flying a-4 Skyhawks. Before he was shot down, he was almost killed by a fire aboard the Forrestal. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded. McCain was struck in his legs and chest by fragments. That fire killed ended up killing 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control. McCain then volunteered to go to the USS Oriskany. It was from there that McCain was later shotdown on his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam.
I've already discussed his POW experience and briefly mentioned his years in the House and Senate
I'm sure you will try and short change that experience too. Maybe if McCain could have fit in being a "community organizer" in between his military, POW and House/Senate jobs you would cut him some slack.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
Let's recap.... you wrongly assumed that FB stated that "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president. At least VP. Lotta' vets in those groups."
NO. I responded to his constant rants that McCain is a war hero POW and that somehow makes him qualified. Anything you write after this misunderstanding is suspect.
I then pointed out how McCain's experience was different than your "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities".
You then stated that I did not know "just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?"
I then listed two people (Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi) who I know are either sitting under a bridge somewhere or are in rehab. Neither of these people have any of the qualifications to be VP and then challenged you to find just one person under a bridge or in rehab that had graduated from the United States Navel Academy.
Yes, you did and it was irrelevant.
You then instead retreated in your arguement to
wondering about nuance and sarcasm. Then you declined my challege to find anyone that graduated from the United States Naval Academy in "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities".
I retreated nowhere. It still mystifies me. You can't even get this thread straight much less understand nuance and sarcasm.
I'll tell you what, why don't you take your generalizations, your sarcasm and your nuance, put them in your pocket and go paddle around in your little boat on the Arkansas river.
Ok.
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010
"Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.
But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process
How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?
His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?
It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy."
You're not even close. I suggest you should read some more.
Not everyone gets into the United States Naval Academy. Even if you do get in, you do have to do the work to graduate. It is also well known that McCain, was a friend and informal leader for many of his classmates, and sometimes stood up for people who were being bullied.He also became a lightweight boxer.While there, McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel because he did not always obey the rules. This rule breaking contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899). He did well in subjects that interested him but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with. Regardless, McCain graduated in 1958.
After graduating, McCain requested a combat assignment,and was assigned to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal flying A-4 Skyhawks. He was flying a-4 Skyhawks. Before he was shot down, he was almost killed by a fire aboard the Forrestal. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded. McCain was struck in his legs and chest by fragments. That fire killed ended up killing 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control. McCain then volunteered to go to the USS Oriskany. It was from there that McCain was later shotdown on his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam.
I've already discussed his POW experience and briefly mentioned his years in the House and Senate
I'm sure you will try and short change that experience too. Maybe if McCain could have fit in being a "community organizer" in between his military, POW and House/Senate jobs you would cut him some slack.
That's about an honest an accounting of his time at the academy as I've read on here.
Kind of brought to mind:
"What do you call the heart surgeon who got the lowest passing score on his medical boards?"
"Doctor"
McCain could have very easily used his father's position to keep him from a combat position and could have quit after the Forrestal inferno.
He didn't.
I think that and his POW days say a lot about the man's constitution.
I can't even begin to imagine the pain that man has lived with and probably lives with to this day. He didn't owe his country a thing when he came back from Asia, yet he's spent his entire life since then in the military, then public service.
I'm simply convinced all the bashing of McCain and Palin is the result of the Democrats not having much faith in Sen. Obama as their candidate, otherwise they'd be pointing out his policies and strengths instead of running down the opponent with hit after hit.
Eh, McCain's a Vietnam vet, he's used to being shat upon by the lefties.
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it."
- Barack Obama
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it."
- Barack Obama
Where do I sign up?
Someone must have told him......