Whats it gonna be?
"After Midnight" - J. J. Cale
"Heartbreak Hotel" - Mae Boren Axton
"Oklahoma" - The Call
"Never Been to Spain" - Hoyt Axton
"Move Along" - All-American Rejects
"Home Sweet Oklahoma" - Leon Russell
"Endless Oklahoma Sky" - John Moreland and the Black Gold Band
"Walk Don't Run" - The Ventures
"Do you Realize?" - Flaming Lips
"Let's Have a Party" - Wanda Jackson
Vote Here: http://www.oklahomarocksong.org/form/vote.php
After Midnight (everything is closed) great song though.
Heartbreak Hotel (let's not make Oklahoma the Heartbreak state)
I've got to hear a couple of these to jog my memory.
I love "Never Been to Spain" and "Do You Realize."
Home Sweet Oklahoma is the only choice, IMO.
Home Sweet Oklahoma.
quote:
Originally posted by breitee
Home Sweet Oklahoma.
How did I know that one would be a popular pick?
"I'm going back to Tulsa one more time"[:)]
Not just that but it's Leon Russell.
Of this list I only know of four that are Oklahomans: JJ Cale, Leon, All American Rejects and Flaming Lips. Anyone of these choices would help our "hipness quotient".
I guess Hoyt Axton was an Okie too.
It's a no brainer...
LEON.
Home Sweet Oklahoma
http://www.tulsanow.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11193
Never been to Spain...HOYT!
Hell yes he's an OKIE!
HOYT!HOYT!HOYT!
Whenever we go camping we play this loud...all of us Okies love it and know the words...it freaks out all our camping friends from out of state!
HOYT!
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
Home Sweet Oklahoma is the only choice, IMO.
Absolutely. +1.
Leon's "Home Sweet Oklahoma" gets my vote, although the folks in OKC might object to the lyrics focus on Tulsa.
"Never Been to Spain" would be a nice choice, a hit for Three Dog Night and performed by Elvis in concerts during the seventies.
"After Midnight" is another good pick. J.J. Cale is also notable for writing "Cocaine" (Eric Clapton) and "The Breeze" (Lynyrd Skynryd).
Other than Leon Russell playing keys for The Ventures, what was their connection to Oklahoma? I must have missed something.
I was thinking "Wipe Out" due to all the tornados. [;)]
On behave of the 7/11 Stores and all the outsourcing of our State of Okla government......I suggest this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZi3fwP09zw&feature=related
quote:
Originally posted by jne
Whats it gonna be?
Who cares? I would think our state legislature has more pressing issues that a "state rock song," but given the previous official state emblems voted on, it doesn't surprise me one bit that this nonsense issue has come up.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by jne
Whats it gonna be?
Who cares? I would think our state legislature has more pressing issues that a "state rock song," but given the previous official state emblems voted on, it doesn't surprise me one bit that this nonsense issue has come up.
Considering that they made a watermelon the state vegetable, I'd just like to be sure they don't name something like 'Oh, What a Beautiful Morning!' the state rock song. Yes, we could turn this thread into yet another b*tch session, but thats what the politics forum is for eh?
To be announced today.
quote:
Originally posted by Porky
On behave of the 7/11 Stores and all the outsourcing of our State of Okla government......I suggest this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZi3fwP09zw&feature=related
Wrong kind of Indians Pork.
No brainer. The Master of Space and Time....
Leon Russell
I really thought it would be "Detroit Rock City".
So friggin' obvious!
"Do you Realize?" by the Flaming Lips on Monday was named the state's official rock song.
Do You Realize - that you have the most beautiful face
Do You Realize - we're floating in space -
Do You Realize - that happiness makes you cry
Do You Realize - that everyone you know someday will die
And instead of saying all of your goodbyes - let them know
You realize that life goes fast
It's hard to make the good things last
You realize the sun doesn't go down
It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning round
Do You Realize - Oh - Oh - Oh
Do You Realize - that everyone you know
Someday will die -
And instead of saying all of your goodbyes - let them know
You realize that life goes fast
It's hard to make the good things last
You realize the sun doesn't go down
It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning round
Do You Realize - that you have the most beautiful face
Do You Realize
GREAT! Since they spent time deciding the State Rock Song I assume the infrastructure, health care, education, crime, and economic problems have all been solved. I was worried they'd never actually do anything about those problems.
Yup, handled
For those, like me, who've never heard the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk76rsV71S0
What part of those lyrics talk about Oklahoma ?
What next a Chihuahua as the State Dog.
Figures, the Legislature favors OKC yet again...[;)]
Never heard the song.
I feel like maybe I don't have enough state pride, but I don't really think that the Flaming Lips' music is really all the special. I think the remixes of their music are far superior than the underlying music.
quote:
Originally posted by DolfanBob
What part of those lyrics talk about Oklahoma ?
What next a Chihuahua as the State Dog.
Bison - state Animal 1972
Raccoon - Official furbearer 1989
White-tail deer - Official game animal 1990
Mexican free-tailed bat - Official state flying mammal 2006
So looks like you have the ability to make that happen
I think the reason The Flaming Lips won was because they were the only ones who did a bit of campaigning
First off, I like the Lips and I like this song.
But.
What in the hell? This song was at best a very minor hit by a moderately famous indie group, very few people know it. Worse, the song in no way mentions Oklahoma or anything about the state.
I would have thought this should have been some sort of iconic hit song by a famous state artist that talks about the state.
Quote from: swake on March 05, 2009, 08:36:14 AM
First off, I like the Lips and I like this song.
But.
What in the hell? This song was at best a very minor hit by a moderately famous indie group, very few people know it. Worse, the song in no way mentions Oklahoma or anything about the state.
I would have thought this should have been some sort of iconic hit song by a famous state artist that talks about the state.
Personally I love the choice...a bit cheeky...although I would've probably gone with the Leon Russell song. But I'll give it up to the Lips...a great 25+ year career...and they've never given up on Oklahoma. Wayne Coyne still lives in OKC.
I am a Flaming Lips fan and think it's a good choice. Good lyrics, good song and the Lips are good Ambassadors for the State.
MMBop by the Hanson Brothers would have been the choice if we went by the Billboard top 40. I don't think so.
I didn't see anything on the the big hoo-haw over the adoption of the state rock song. Here's a a couple of articles to summarize:
Quote4/24/09 Tulsa World - Henry steps in after House blisters Lips (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090424_16_A1_Somela538898&archive=yes)
OKLAHOMA CITY – The Oklahoma House on Thursday killed a measure to make "Do You Realize??" by the Flaming Lips the state's official rock song. But Gov. Brad Henry will sign an executive order Tuesday, naming the Flaming Lips song as the official rock song of Oklahoma...
...Some legislators believe that a shirt worn by Flaming Lips bassist Michael Ivins when the vote winner was announced at the Capitol on March 2 was offensive. Ivins wore a red T-shirt with a yellow star-and-sickle logo, underneath a blazer. "I don't know why he made the choice to do that," said Rep. Corey Holland, R-Marlow. "The great thing about this country is he has the right to make whatever statement he wants to make. I have the right to be offended by that."
Quote4/25/09 Tulsa World - Coyne: Lips song targeted by 'wackos' (http://www.tulsaworld.com/spot/article.aspx?subjectid=269&articleid=20090425_270_A1_Flamin783248&archive=yes)
Flaming Lips frontman Wayne Coyne spoke out Friday about a state House vote that killed a resolution naming the band's 2002 hit "Do You Realize??" as the official state rock song.
"It's a small minority of religious wackos that think they can tell everybody what to wear and what to say and what to do and what music is right for the rest of the world. And all the smart, normal, rational people of Oklahoma know better," Coyne said during a phone interview with the Tulsa World...
Quote4/25/09 Oklahoman - Song fight isn't rocking Flaming Lips' world (http://newsok.com/song-fight-isnt-rocking-flaming-lips-world/article/3364378)
...Rep. Corey Holland, R-Marlow, said Thursday he was offended band member Michael Ivins wore a red T-shirt with a yellow hammer-and-sickle emblem when he visited the Capitol on March 2.
Rep. Mike Reynolds, R-Oklahoma City, also fought the measure, denouncing Coyne for using the "F-word" at a 2007 event christening Bricktown's Flaming Lips Alley.
"These naysayers who want to talk about me saying (profanities) and Michael wearing this T-shirt, everybody can see through how silly this stuff is," Coyne said. "I figured that no matter what happened, people would come to our rescue. People would have a reason to really fight for us and say, 'No, this isn't what Oklahoma is all about.' ... And I think the governor is very cool, how he's come to our rescue."
I stopped listening to "modern" radio about 10 years ago. I don't live in a closet though, I do know who Britney Spears is and what not, but I can honestly say I've never heard of the Flamin' Lips.
Thank You God.
I have, unfortunately heard of the recent exploits of our State Government, and I have to say, these two different types of idiocy are a match made in heaven.
Why, exactly, were we going to pass a law to make a State "rock" song? This whole thing had Fark written all over it from the start.
Music changes. IMO, it isn't worth listening to anymore. That could change in another 10 years. For this reason alone, making an official rock song for our state seems pretty narrow-minded.
But they do it anyway, and this guy shows up wearing a Soviet emblem T-shirt.
What a dork. Although Oklahoma is indeed plagued by an over-abundance of right-wing, overly-religious people (as he called them after he was scorned for his stupidity), this was a bad, bad move to make because we almost went to war with the Soviets, and that shirt represented the enemy of freedom from 1945 to the late eighties. It had NOTHING to do with overly-religious right-wingers.
Whats really, really sad, is that I know several people who have graduated from various Oklahoma high-schools this decade that are completely unaware of what the Cold War was. I'm not kidding.
This came to my attention during the latest "Indiana Jones" movie, when I had to explain to a girl sitting next to me who the KGB was, what the "Red Army" was, etc, etc... all the way through the film. :o
Our educational system is ruined, the State Government is responsible for that to a great extent--so much so that they have spawned a generation of dumb people like this 'Lips' singer fellow, who probably himself doesn't know what the Cold War was.
--
Why are you holding such a grudge against Russia? The cold war is over. It didn't get past the warm stage. Must we forever be offended by their emblems and their pride in nationality? I wonder as well if Russian youth are castigated by their elders for embracing Western style rock. Geez, petty stuff. Would a British Flag have been as offensive? Which ones can we wear?
Although I am surprised at how little under 30's know about 40's-70's history, it doesn't make me rail at the education system. Why is their fault? Those over 40 express very little knowledge of such things as the Spanish-American war, the Gilded Age, The Pueblo incident or phrenology which were common knowledge among their parents and grandparents. In fact, Nazis were quite impressed with American philosophies of Eugenics and mental treatments in the thirties. It may have led them to justify murdering millions of Jews. Did you know about Absynth or Radium water? Was our system of education then lacking?Fortunately the net makes it easy and fast to get some info but truely? That's why we keep making the same mistakes every generation. We carry so little forward from the last one!
Quote from: waterboy on April 26, 2009, 04:52:08 PM
Why are you holding such a grudge against Russia? The cold war is over. It didn't get past the warm stage. Must we forever be offended by their emblems and their pride in nationality? I wonder as well if Russian youth are castigated by their elders for embracing Western style rock. Geez, petty stuff. Would a British Flag have been as offensive? Which ones can we wear?
The Hammer and Sickle isn't a national symbol of Russia. It's the international symbol of the Communist ideology, and when countries threw off the Communist yoke in the 1980s and 1990s, they removed the Hammer and Sickle from their flags. When the Romanians ousted Communist regime in late '89 and executed Nicolae Ceaucescu, they cut the Communist coat of arms
(adorned with the Hammer and Sickle) out of their red, yellow, and blue tricolor flags, leaving a big hole in the center (http://"http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ro-hole.html"). (Correction: The coat of arms did not have the Hammer and Sickle, but did have a large red star, another symbol of Communism. In any case, those rebelling against the Communist government felt strongly enough about eliminating the Communist symbol from their national flag that they took scissors to the flag.)
The Hammer & Sickle is to Communism as the Swastika is to Nazism.
Everyone knows about Nazi atrocities, and rightly so. Had Ivins been wearing a foot-wide swastika on his chest, everyone, left, right, and center, would be calling for his head. Hawkins is right on point -- the most disturbing thing about this situation is how ignorant people are of the atrocities that have been committed and are still being committed by Communist governments around the world.
I still fail to see how a little known song by the Flaming Lips wound up being the state rock song over better known songs written by Hoyt Axton, Michael Been (The Call), or Leon Russell amongst others. Why do we need an "official" rock song anyhow?
I don't care how big a "rock star" someone is. Show some common sense and decorum when your state tries to honor you.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 26, 2009, 08:18:39 PM
I still fail to see how a little known song by the Flaming Lips wound up being the state rock song over better known songs written by Hoyt Axton, Michael Been (The Call), or Leon Russell amongst others. Why do we need an "official" rock song anyhow?
I don't care how big a "rock star" someone is. Show some common sense and decorum when your state tries to honor you.
+1
Quote from: MichaelBates on April 26, 2009, 05:56:06 PM
The Hammer and Sickle isn't a national symbol of Russia. It's the international symbol of the Communist ideology, and when countries threw off the Communist yoke in the 1980s and 1990s, they removed the Hammer and Sickle from their flags. When the Romanians ousted Communist regime in late '89 and executed Nicolae Ceaucescu, they cut the Communist coat of arms (adorned with the Hammer and Sickle) out of their red, yellow, and blue tricolor flags, leaving a big hole in the center (http://"http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ro-hole.html"). (Correction: The coat of arms did not have the Hammer and Sickle, but did have a large red star, another symbol of Communism. In any case, those rebelling against the Communist government felt strongly enough about eliminating the Communist symbol from their national flag that they took scissors to the flag.)
The Hammer & Sickle is to Communism as the Swastika is to Nazism.
Everyone knows about Nazi atrocities, and rightly so. Had Ivins been wearing a foot-wide swastika on his chest, everyone, left, right, and center, would be calling for his head. Hawkins is right on point -- the most disturbing thing about this situation is how ignorant people are of the atrocities that have been committed and are still being committed by Communist governments around the world.
Relax o great capitalist defender. He said it, I referred to his remark.
"....because we almost went to war with the Soviets, and that shirt represented the enemy of freedom from 1945 to the late eighties. "
It was a shirt. I too doubt he even understood what it represented to the last two generations that fought against Communism with such vigor. Or maybe he was railing against those people. The ones who sent 50,000 GI's to their deaths in Viet Nam to prevent the dominoes from falling. The ones who haven't allowed Cubans to visit their families for the last generation because, because...oh hell who knows the mind of these people. The ones who victimized professors who dared teach comparative economic systems or who professed to be or having ever been "Card Carrying Communists". Those capitalists who destroyed creatives careers and lives like trash out the car window during the McCarthy era.
Just like guns, its people who committ atrocities. Communism, just like Capitalism are both systems used to hide and protect some of the basest of humans. Pre-Communist Cuba was capitalist and its leaders were ruthless affiliates of American mobsters. The British South African governments were capitalist and that same brand of capitalism allowed slaves to be treated as chattel in this country. Both of you should go have a drink together and discuss the war we almost had with Russia and the poor quality of education we all get. Then talk about how he believes Communism no longer remained a threat to freedom after the late eighties.
Everyone knows abut Nazi's? One of my 27yr old co-workers asked me the other day if that assassination attempt on Hitler was successful. You know, the one in the movie... So much for knowing about the Nazis.
I for one am tired of hearing about the inhumanity of Communism and its continuuing threat to free peoples everywhere. Communism fails just fine all by itself.
Not condoning communism by any stretch, but think of how many people have been killed in the promotion of Christianity.
I just got this email from a musician I respect a ton. I could care less about their lifestyle, I'm simply trying to figure out the significance of the band and the song chosen and I don't see it in light of better choices. I'd also forgotten about Wanda Jackson as another significant Okla talent. I can't think of an "Oklahoma" song by David Gates, but there's another great example of Oklahoma talent. If you look at overall contribution to the music industry, Leon Russell arguably has been one of the more influential people in all of Rock-N-Roll: producer, writer, performer, session musician. Slight exaggeration, but the list of his peers who he's played with is probably longer than the list of those he's not. "Home Sweet Oklahoma" would have been a great choice.
"Governor, the house is right and they don't know the half of it.
I was afraid of this. I editorialized about it last year. I noted that teenybooppers had already nominated completely inappropriate material from their flavor-of-the-month bands. I even sent my article to The Oklahoma Historical Society. (add link to previous piece)
The Flaming Lips; their name is either taken from a porn film or is a pot-smoking reference. They stole equipment from a church to get the band started. They sing about Jesus shooting heroin and a come-on from The Virgin Mary. One member had his hand amputated due to an infection from shooting heroin. They blaspheme, use all manner of profanity, even in public, and sing about sexual lubricants. Their first album, recorded in OKC, spoke of 'this town full of dumb f**ks'.
Do these represent Oklahoma values? We don't think so. Obviously , the committee did not vet this group. Even without these obvious negatives, there are manifold reasons why they are not the best choice. They underscored this by wearing a communist shirt to the capitol and calling the majority of congress who opposed their selection 'a minority of religious wackos.' We doubt that congress even knew about the seamier side of this band.
The closeness of the vote is indicative of the disinterest in this resolution. The majority of Oklahomans have not heard The Flaming Lips. Our elders in the house don't have the time or inclination to look into this. We'd like to save them future embarrassment, if it's not already too late.
Popularity is no indicator of quality. Even so, this group's biggest hit was only #16, in England at that. Their lyrics, when not outright offensive are nonsensical to conceal their complete lack of depth. Allmusic.com refers to them as "Acid Bubblegum Music". They are like Tommy James & The Shondells; lots of glitz and no substance.
This is a decision we will have to live with. Music historians around the world will ask "How in the world did those Okies choose The Flaming Lips over such lasting and towering talents as Hoyt Axton, J.J. Cale, Wanda Jackson, & Leon Russell? They are the Bible Belt, yet they promote sex, drugs, and sacrilege?" It is to laugh, and the joke is on us. It's shameful.
The reason is the skewed voting process. Online voting allowed the heaviest internet users, 20-somethings, to dominate the outcome. The reult was trendiness over actual musical value.
The Hansen brothers will have a more lasting musical impact in the fullness of time. They have far more historical sense and musical ability and they are completely wholesome. If we must have a young group, they are something we can all be proud of. Leon Russell and Steve Ripley of The Tractors sat in with them on one gig!
I know I speak for the musical community and most music chroniclers when I say the best choice by far is "Home Sweet Oklahoma" by Leon. But Let's Have A Party" by Wanda Jackson – the very first female rocker, is equally deserving. The first rock and roll hit, "Heartbreak Hotel." and the anthemic "Never Been To Spain", indeed all of these are far more deserving than "Do You Realize" which is not half as interesting even from a compositional perspective. The song, by the way, was written to someone kicking heroin. It only hit #83 on the US charts.
Leon Russell has been an influence in every field of pop music, beiginning with Rick Nelson and "Monster Mash" and through The Wrecking Crew, he played on countless hits: Da Do Ron Ron, You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling, Beach Boys records, The Monkees, The Rolling Stones, George Harrison, Eric Clapton, Willie Nelson, conducting for Dean Martin and rocking out on Shindig. He's done R & B, Country, Gospel, Bluegrass, and great rock and roll; and he's still doing it at 66.
The reclusive J.J. Cale is the antithesis of the Lips' egotism. Would Eric Clapton sit in with the Flaming Lips? Cale had his first hit almost 40 years ago; "After Midnight" launched Clapton's solo career. Cale's latest album is his biggest commercial success yet.
The Flaming lips may not be bad people, but they are shallow and thoughtless, and certainly not representative of most Oklahomans' values. They don't even play very well.
If the governor signs this proclamation it will be embarrasing and even shameful. No one took fifteen minutes to Google the lyrics and the background of this group? Those of us who love music and love Oklahoma are humiliated and will have to regard this as meaningless. There must be a payoff somewhere."
Flaming Lips Rule!!!!
From what I heard, only about 20,000 people votes were counted. I find it hard to believe that only 20,000 people out of 3.6 million in this state cared enough to vote for the official state rock song. I never heard about it until the Hammer Sickle shirt guy incident. Probably was only advertised on alt-rock music sites.
I finally listened to the song on Youtube tonight and realized I'd heard it before. It's the song I'd labeled as a lame rip-off of "Mind Games" by John Lennon. Such a cheery tune to have has our state rock song. If we had to go this route, why not pick "She Don't Use Jelly"? No more relevant to Oklahoma, but more people would know it.
Quote from: jiminy on April 26, 2009, 11:14:56 PM
From what I heard, only about 20,000 people votes were counted. I find it hard to believe that only 20,000 people out of 3.6 million in this state cared enough to vote for the official state rock song. I never heard about it until the Hammer Sickle shirt guy incident. Probably was only advertised on alt-rock music sites.
This topic was discussed at length at the beginning of this thread, just read back some. It was also talked about in the Tulsa World, in UTW, on KOTV and i don't know where else. That was just the places i ran across the topic.
I would guess that if 20,000 people voted they had a good turnout, just think about other elections that happen in the state. If a certain group was able to run the numbers for their candidate it is because other music fans not caring much about voting. I did vote, not for this tune, but I did bother to vote. What is that old line, you snooze - you lose.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 26, 2009, 09:49:05 PM
I just got this email from a musician I respect a ton. I could care less about their lifestyle, I'm simply trying to figure out the significance of the band and the song chosen and I don't see it in light of better choices. I'd also forgotten about Wanda Jackson as another significant Okla talent. I can't think of an "Oklahoma" song by David Gates, but there's another great example of Oklahoma talent. If you look at overall contribution to the music industry, Leon Russell arguably has been one of the more influential people in all of Rock-N-Roll: producer, writer, performer, session musician. Slight exaggeration, but the list of his peers who he's played with is probably longer than the list of those he's not. "Home Sweet Oklahoma" would have been a great choice.
"Governor, the house is right and they don't know the half of it.
I was afraid of this. I editorialized about it last year. I noted that teenybooppers had already nominated completely inappropriate material from their flavor-of-the-month bands. I even sent my article to The Oklahoma Historical Society. (add link to previous piece)
snip
"This musician" also put out a tirade that was either factually wrong (the drummer didn't have his hand amputated; he's clean of drugs and still drumming), or dubious or inconsistent in his beefs with the lips.
I didn't have a dog in this fight. I heard the nominees, and found them worthy, the Lips included. I'm not a huge fan of the Flaming Lips, but have followed them with increasing fascination over the past 15 years or so. I should add that I thought the Lips were horrible early in their careers, but the band experienced a fairly amazing spurt of artistic growth.
I've read beefs about tech-savvy youngsters stuffing the ballot box for the Flaming Lips. Well, duh. Rock 'n' roll always has been the bastion of the young, and so it stands to reason that young music fans are going to skew an online poll.
But if you look at the facts closely, it probably shouldn't be a surprise that the Flaming Lips came out on top. The Flaming Lips had two albums, "The Soft Bulletin" and "Yoshimi," that were among the most critically praised of the past decade. The Lips' concerts, by all accounts, are highly imaginative and sell out everywhere across the globe. The Flaming Lips' last album peaked at No. 11 on the Billboard charts overall.
So you have a band that's been critically lauded for the last decade, sells scads of concert tickets, and its last album went gold or platinum.
Considering that Leon Russell is decades past his prime, Hanson's last hit was about 10 years ago and all the other nominees (save for the All-American Rejects) came from the baby-boom age or further back, it shouldn't be surprising that a band that's relevant to many, many music fans
now would win an online contest.
If you're going to punish the Lips for not "representing Oklahoma values" (whatever those are), you'd better yank Bob Wills from having the state's official country and western song because he was a notorious drunkard and womanizer. And you'd better pull Woody Guthrie's portrait from the state Capitol building because he was an honest-to-God communist, not just a fellow who wore a hammer-and-sickle gimme shirt for one day.
In the end, it's all about the music. Ted Nugent and Rage Against the Machine couldn't be more opposite on the political spectrum. But both are very, very good at being rock musicians, and I enjoy both artists' music greatly.
Same goes for the Lips.
Quote from: MichaelBates on April 26, 2009, 05:56:06 PM
The Hammer and Sickle isn't a national symbol of Russia. It's the international symbol of the Communist ideology, and when countries threw off the Communist yoke in the 1980s and 1990s, they removed the Hammer and Sickle from their flags. When the Romanians ousted Communist regime in late '89 and executed Nicolae Ceaucescu, they cut the Communist coat of arms (adorned with the Hammer and Sickle) out of their red, yellow, and blue tricolor flags, leaving a big hole in the center (http://"http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ro-hole.html"). (Correction: The coat of arms did not have the Hammer and Sickle, but did have a large red star, another symbol of Communism. In any case, those rebelling against the Communist government felt strongly enough about eliminating the Communist symbol from their national flag that they took scissors to the flag.)
The Hammer & Sickle is to Communism as the Swastika is to Nazism.
Everyone knows about Nazi atrocities, and rightly so. Had Ivins been wearing a foot-wide swastika on his chest, everyone, left, right, and center, would be calling for his head. Hawkins is right on point -- the most disturbing thing about this situation is how ignorant people are of the atrocities that have been committed and are still being committed by Communist governments around the world.
I do see your point. A swastika would bring a lot of outrage. I don't think even those in the former USSR states even know all of the atrocities committed. I do know that a lot of that information isn't taught in schools more than likely (In the US). Which also brings up the point that those going through school in the near future will not have grown up in a time with the tension of U.S. USSR relations and the constant fear of nuclear war with them. (Although we are moving that way again with Russia). Now in the classroom the emphasis is going to be that they were are allies in WWII.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on April 27, 2009, 01:00:29 AM
If you're going to punish the Lips for not "representing Oklahoma values" (whatever those are), you'd better yank Bob Wills from having the state's official country and western song because he was a notorious drunkard and womanizer. And you'd better pull Woody Guthrie's portrait from the state Capitol building because he was an honest-to-God communist, not just a fellow who wore a hammer-and-sickle gimme shirt for one day.
Great point.
1) A rock star embracing communism is the height of irony. Selling records, performing at shows, making a living off of art was not high on the list of the communist aspirations. Let alone being an individual. By wearing the shirt and attempting to draw attention to himself he is, unwittingly I assume, mocking the intent of the hammer and sickle - which were to glorify the common-man ideal of the communist state.
2) The State of Oklahoma voted a very unique rock band as the State song. They are known for doing things to get attention, for being different, it's kind of par for the course for a rock band. Then they do something to get attention and to be different . . . acting like a rock band, and they are shocked!
It'd be like inviting a politician to speak and then discovering that he lied, fibbed, or left out some of the truth.
What's funny is Bates quotes Wikipedia saying the Hammer and Sickle are symbols of communism but also on Wikipedia it says that the soviet flag is depicted as a Red Flag with a Yellow star and Hammer and Sickle. The star represent communism and the hammer and sickle represents the workers and farmers. The Chinese flag also used the Yellow Star on a red flag to symbolize the communist leadership.
So if the shirt had a more direct communist image like a yellow star on a red flag, would the house have voted the same way?
What I see is someone wearing a shirt that is copied from the flag of a defunct communist nation with the star (the symbol of communist leadership) removed. Oakley (the Sunglasses people) had a whole line of clothing feature soviet-styling and the soviet star for quite a while with no major protest. I have looked at the image several times and never felt any sort of desire to become a communist, all I felt was 80's Nostalgia and the desire to buy one of those shirts.
Pretty funny, Tulsa World:
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleImages/2009/20090426_Plante20090426.jpg)
All of this brouhaha about a t-shirt is, to borrow a phrase, much ado about nothing. So the guy wore a t-shirt. I am not offended by this choice of clothing, he is a musician. Most musicians i know do not run around in pinstriped suits. Having the symbol of a defunct country on their t-shirt does not make them followers or practitioners of that particular political ideology. I see people driving around with the union jack painted on the top of their Mini Coopers, does than make them USA haters wanting us to revert back to serving the Queen? I don't think so.
There is too much divisiveness in the United States today. We all need to just take a deep breath and relax.
Quote from: joiei on April 28, 2009, 03:24:52 AM
All of this brouhaha about a t-shirt is, to borrow a phrase, much ado about nothing. So the guy wore a t-shirt. I am not offended by this choice of clothing, he is a musician. Most musicians i know do not run around in pinstriped suits. Having the symbol of a defunct country on their t-shirt does not make them followers or practitioners of that particular political ideology. I see people driving around with the union jack painted on the top of their Mini Coopers, does than make them USA haters wanting us to revert back to serving the Queen? I don't think so.
There is too much divisiveness in the United States today. We all need to just take a deep breath and relax.
+1 Karma for Joiei
Remembered seeing this thread, but hadn't read it before until I saw this on the front page of the BBC News...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8022652.stm
QuoteCoyne told Billboard magazine that the Oklahoma City band had never thought they were "battling against what we feel is like a backwards mentality here".
"It's really just a couple of these small-minded guys who are the most popular guys in their church and
This could get fun.
This is ridiculous. They won the vote as it was set up, and then the conservative idiots in the legislature decided they didn't like the outcome.
It's even made it to the front page of bbc.com.
For once, I'd like the big news out of Oklahoma not be embarrassing. But I am surrounded by bible thumping idiots who would rather spend time making a big deal out of some meaningless state song than figuring out make sure its citizens don't die because health care and insurance is exhorbitantly expensive and grossly ineffective for the bulk of the population.
How about we figure out how to care for our population instead of wasting time on this morally superior legislating b.s.
Tulsatoday has convincing arguments against this selection. Oklahoma has had so much influence on Rock and Roll from the very beginning. Most of us have never heard of these profane atheists who thumb their noses at everything. They won with one third of one percent of the potential vote. Hundreds of songs were nominated, then cut down to 10. Hanson did not make the final ten, even though they much better represent most of us and still chart higher than Lips. Home Sweet Oklahoma should have won.
Quote from: Angus on May 21, 2009, 01:07:14 PM
Tulsatoday has convinving arguments against this selection. Oklahoma had had so much influence on Rock and Roll from the very beginning. Most of us have never heard of these profane atheists who thumb their nose at everything. They won with one third of one percent of the potential vote. Hundreds of songs were nominated, then cut down to 10. Hanson did not make the final ten, even though they much better represent most of us and still chart higher than Lips. Home Sweet Oklahoma should have won.
Doesn't float. one third of one percent of the potential vote was still more then any other song that was voted on. Even though there are many other songs that would represent Oklahoma better, they were not marketed, so did not get the votes. That's how it works, sorry.
P.S. just to clarify, I don't like the selection, but I didn't vote (didn't know anything about it) so I can't gripe.
That's the biggest problem. Most people I've talked to didn't know about the vote. OKHS said Rejects campaigned the most, but Lippies were highly motivated. We just look dumber than ever.
"God $%&#ed up when he made this town. It's full of mental cases. They're all dumb f%$s. People think I believe in God. I hate that f&%king S#!+." -Wayne Coyne,
"Wonderful ambassadors for Oklahoma!" - Brad Henry.
I'm a democrat, but we don't have to step in poo to look progressive.
Quote from: Angus on May 21, 2009, 01:07:14 PM
Tulsatoday has convinving arguments against this selection. Oklahoma had had so much influence on Rock and Roll from the very beginning. Most of us have never heard of these profane atheists who thumb their nose at everything. They won with one third of one percent of the potential vote. Hundreds of songs were nominated, then cut down to 10. Hanson did not make the final ten, even though they much better represent most of us and still chart higher than Lips. Home Sweet Oklahoma should have won.
(http://www.genuinecuriosity.com/genuinecuriosity/vader-fail.jpg)
Quote from: Angus on May 21, 2009, 01:25:31 PM
That's the biggest problem. Most people I've talked to didn't know about the vote. OKHS said Rejects campaigned the most, but Lippies were highly motivated. We just look dumber than ever.
"God $%&#ed up when he made this town. It's full of mental cases. They're all dumb f%$s. People think I believe in God. I hate that f&%king S#!+." -Wayne Coyne,
"Wonderful ambassadors for Oklahoma!" - Brad Henry.
I'm a democrat, but we don't have to step in poo to look progressive.
I agree that something went wrong in the whole process. I'm not sure how doing it the way they did (still trying to figure that part out as well) can make it official.
Quote from: custosnox on May 21, 2009, 01:35:29 PM
I agree that something went wrong in the whole process. I'm not sure how doing it the way they did (still trying to figure that part out as well) can make it official.
Because it's choosing a state rock song.
Look up the state mammal. It's not a life changing thing for most of us.
It's just something on the books for anyone who cares.
Make a funny face at a dog in front of a cop here in Oklahoma. Chances are you won't be arrested but officially it's illegal.
I too care so little about the State Rock Song of Oklahoma I'm not even going to finish this sent
Quote from: Townsend on May 21, 2009, 02:38:45 PM
Because it's choosing a state rock song.
Look up the state mammal. It's not a life changing thing for most of us.
It's just something on the books for anyone who cares.
Make a funny face at a dog in front of a cop here in Oklahoma. Chances are you won't be arrested but officially it's illegal.
True, it makes little differance in the grand scheme of things.
I'm still looking for that funny face law btw
QuotePeople who make "ugly faces" at dogs may be fined and/or jailed.
http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/oklahoma (http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/oklahoma)
There's another one making it illegal to put an animal's hind legs in your boots..."but your honor, I was just showing it my love"
and head's up Mobboss,
QuoteIt is illegal for the owner of a bar to allow anyone inside to pretend to have sex with a buffalo.
Quote from: Townsend on May 21, 2009, 02:58:46 PM
http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/oklahoma (http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/oklahoma)
There's another one making it illegal to put an animal's hind legs in your boots..."but your honor, I was just showing it my love"
and head's up Mobboss,
I've been over that site many times. Still see it as a maybe until I see where it's at on the books. Too often have I seen urban legends passed on as fact lol
Quote from: Townsend on May 21, 2009, 02:58:46 PM
http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/oklahoma (http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/oklahoma)
There's another one making it illegal to put an animal's hind legs in your boots..."but your honor, I was just showing it my love"
and head's up Mobboss,
"I did not have sex with that buffalo, Ms. Lewinsky."
Quote from: custosnox on May 21, 2009, 03:00:38 PM
I've been over that site many times. Still see it as a maybe until I see where it's at on the books. Too often have I seen urban legends passed on as fact lol
Point taken but our state flower was a fungus for years so it wouldn't surprise me that it's illegal to allow a patron to pretend to have sex with a buffalo in your bar.
I call BS on the "ugly faces" law. Like the spitting on sidewalks law, it has an origin of truth but isn't really a state law. The spitting on sidewalks law referenced in that article is talking about a Tulsa city Ordinance against the same. Thus, it is a law in the State of Oklahoma but not a State law. The "ugly faces" law could be in Podunk Oklahoma.
In fact, I checked four of those "laws" to varying degrees and found none to be accurate or actual Oklahoma Laws.
No documents found for the following search:
Search Phrase: "ugly faces"
Jurisdiction(s): Oklahoma [case law]
No documents found for the following search:
Search Phrase: "ugly faces"
Libraries(s) Oklahoma Statutes
Search Phrase: ugly
Source: Secretary of State, Office of Administrative Codes
Your search for "ugly" was not found in the Code.
Query Executed: ugly
Query Execution Date and Time: May 21, 2009 at 15:07:30
Documents Found: 0
Databases Queried:
Oklahoma Statutes Citationized(STOKST)
Oklahoma Session Laws(STOKLG)
Oklahoma Constitution(STOKCN)
Oklahoma Attorney General's Opinions(STOKAG)
Oklahoma Uniform Jury Instructions(STOKJU)
Query Execution Time: 0 seconds.
- - -
Also, the whaling law doesn't exist. But appears in random states odd law lists on many websites...
Query Executed: Whale
Query Execution Date and Time: May 21, 2009 at 15:09:15
Documents Found: 0
Databases Queried:
Oklahoma Statutes Citationized(STOKST)
Oklahoma Session Laws(STOKLG)
Oklahoma Constitution(STOKCN)
Oklahoma Attorney General's Opinions(STOKAG)
Oklahoma Uniform Jury Instructions(STOKJU)
Query Execution Time: 0 seconds.
Query Executed: whaling
Query Execution Date and Time: May 21, 2009 at 15:09:57
Documents Found: 0
Databases Queried:
Oklahoma Statutes Citationized(STOKST)
Oklahoma Session Laws(STOKLG)
Oklahoma Constitution(STOKCN)
Oklahoma Attorney General's Opinions(STOKAG)
Oklahoma Uniform Jury Instructions(STOKJU)
Query Execution Time: 1 seconds.
- - -
Anyone here ever reported ad valorum tax on home furnishings?
- - -
No documents found for the following search:
Search Phrase: "hind legs of farm animals"
Libraries(s) Oklahoma Statutes
- - -
All the references to "buffalo" in Oklahoma statutes is the creation of a Buffalo Soldier Heritage Corridor.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/Search.asp?query=buffalo&title=&issueDatebegin=&modifiedafter=&issueDateend=&modifiedbefore=&effectiveDate=&superseded=&CaseNumber=&court=&mandate=&judge=&act=&codetitle=&fuzziness=0&stemming=Yes&maxFiles=25&dbCodeText=&ftdb=STOKST&ftdb=STOKLG&ftdb=STOKCN&ftdb=STOKAG&ftdb=STOKJU&SUBMITTED=true
Well you've killed a little magic for me today.
Oklahoma isn't as much of the fantasy as it used to be for me now.
lol I've always had my doubts. And what is funny is I turned a postcard with all of those on them into a refridgerator magnet.