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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: sgrizzle on August 22, 2008, 07:55:40 AM

Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on August 22, 2008, 07:55:40 AM
This is a system of signage telling people "Blue Dome ->" or "<- BOK CENTER"

There was money budgeted for this and a mention before that it was to be done by the end of September but no other real information. Suddenly this week I have seen crews digging holes around downtown and putting in bases for signs. Is this it?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: bacjz00 on August 24, 2008, 09:20:53 PM
Tulsa World:  Finishing touches still to go (8/24) (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080824_350_A1_hBOKCe772955%22)

Pointing the way

New art deco style signs are being installed at key locations to guide motorists and pedestrians to the arena and other downtown points of interest.

Work began over the weekend to install 148 signs, with signs that mention the arena going up first, followed by those pointing to parking garages, public buildings, specialty districts and entertainment venues.

The signs feature metallic purple and dark green colors and will be embellished with art deco motifs to coordinate with existing downtown designs.

Installation of signs will continue for the next few weeks.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Red Arrow on August 24, 2008, 09:46:54 PM
Can anyone post a picture of one please?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Hoss on August 24, 2008, 10:21:46 PM
Would it be one of the ones that still had cardboard covering it, Scott?  I saw several of those at the SE corner (main entrance) of the arena today as I did my walking photography tour.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Red Arrow on August 24, 2008, 10:34:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss

Would it be one of the ones that still had cardboard covering it, Scott?  I saw several of those at the SE corner (main entrance) of the arena today as I did my walking photography tour.



I don't know. I think it's a good idea but I would have to make a special trip downtown to see one since I live near 111th and Memorial and work near Jenks.  I don't want to see a cardboard cover so maybe I will have to wait a bit.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: TURobY on August 24, 2008, 10:49:18 PM
Sounds very cool. Can't wait to see what it looks like. Glad that it sounds unique and not like the institutional green background, white block lettering like other road signs.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Hoss on August 24, 2008, 11:02:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:
Originally posted by Hoss

Would it be one of the ones that still had cardboard covering it, Scott?  I saw several of those at the SE corner (main entrance) of the arena today as I did my walking photography tour.



I don't know. I think it's a good idea but I would have to make a special trip downtown to see one since I live near 111th and Memorial and work near Jenks.  I don't want to see a cardboard cover so maybe I will have to wait a bit.



Not the same Scott....read your PMs.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on August 25, 2008, 07:25:50 AM
Here's a bad phone picture I took early this morning. I'll try to get a better one.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3162/2796372944_76160e2c63.jpg?v=0)

For perspective it's about 6 feet or so to the bottom edge of the sign.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Hoss on August 25, 2008, 08:33:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

Here's a bad phone picture I took early this morning. I'll try to get a better one.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3162/2796372944_76160e2c63.jpg?v=0)

For perspective it's about 6 feet or so to the bottom edge of the sign.



Yep, that looks like them as far as size goes.  Thanks.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 25, 2008, 08:44:35 AM
Tulsa Comm Coll?

Communist Collapse?
Commendable Colleaque?
Commercial Collage?
Common Collection?
Committee Collusion?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on August 25, 2008, 09:06:10 AM
Yeah, I'd rather it repeat itself with "TCC College" than the current abbreviation. I probably would've tried for "TCC Metro Campus"
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on August 25, 2008, 09:06:46 AM
Oh and the sign above seems to be purple on mint green. The dark green is on the backside.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: carltonplace on August 25, 2008, 11:40:27 AM
I noticed that new trees have been planted on 3rd Street between Denver and Elgin. Anyone know what they are? I'd guess locust but not certain.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Red Arrow on August 25, 2008, 12:46:34 PM
Thanks for the picture.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on August 25, 2008, 12:59:28 PM
Here's a better one, especially if you're looking for the perforated arts center...

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3138/2797292204_da3b0596af.jpg)
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Vision 2025 on August 25, 2008, 01:58:16 PM
I just saw one up on 7th Street and I thought it looked pretty good and many years overdue...
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: PonderInc on August 26, 2008, 01:18:42 PM
They really should have asked for some advice on the abbreviations.  I literally couldn't figure out what Tulsa Comm Col was!  (I thought it was some military thing: colonels and non-comms hanging out together talking about communications?) TCC Metro would have been great. (Especially since everyone calls it TCC.)  And the Perf Arts Center makes me think of perforations, pervs and perps....but not the PAC. (Most people call it the PAC, anyway.)  Too bad it's not the Nerf Arts Center.  That sounds fun!
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Renaissance on August 26, 2008, 01:21:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

They really should have asked for some advice on the abbreviations.  I literally couldn't figure out what Tulsa Comm Col was!  (I thought it was some military thing: colonels and non-comms hanging out together talking about communications?) TCC Metro would have been great. (Especially since everyone calls it TCC.)  And the Perf Arts Center makes me think of perforations, pervs and perps....but not the PAC. (Most people call it the PAC, anyway.)  Too bad it's not the Nerf Arts Center.  That sounds fun!



I like the sign design but I completely agree about the abbreviations.  And the font--did we contract the venue designations to ODOT?  They look like directional signs on the highway.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: TheArtist on August 26, 2008, 02:37:51 PM
The signs do look nice and are nice to have downtown...  But come on, those abbreviations are beyond absurd. Zeeeesh. Someone picked the wrong, uncreative, bureaucrat to come up with what went on the signs lol. I can almost just sense, the kind of person and personality that did that. We all know the type and have run into them before. Probably tried really hard, was well intentioned, but had the common sense and creative ability, the "unable to read and gauge the average persons response" ability" "and wouldnt think it was a priority anyway", of a log. lol

Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: bacjz00 on August 26, 2008, 04:17:06 PM
I think the signs look great.  I wouldn't worry too much about the font or the abbreviations guys.  

In the end they're meant to "guide" people around, not provide route to route directions to their destination.  They're simple but effective in communicating the general direction of the few major attractions we do have.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: TheArtist on August 26, 2008, 05:44:00 PM
I don't know.... I dont know how I am going to sleep tonight thinking about the font choice and those horrible abbreviations. I mean, this city is surely doomed.


Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Red Arrow on August 26, 2008, 10:23:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

I don't know.... I dont know how I am going to sleep tonight thinking about the font choice and those horrible abbreviations. I mean, this city is surely doomed.






Turn on the television and grab a mass produced beverage and snack of your choice. As you sink into your favorite chair consuming your goodies and watching the tube, you will realize there are worse things than a plain font and bad abbreviations. If nothing else, the show you are watching and the food and drink you are consuming.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: PonderInc on August 27, 2008, 01:44:38 PM
It's just another example of good intentions with clueless implementation.  I like the one I saw today, where the new "parking" sign blocks the content of the new "wayfinding" sign that's a few feet behind it.

Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: janle on August 28, 2008, 09:21:08 AM
You guys seem to be way too forgiving about the abbreviations. Why use abbreviations at all? Is Tulsa too cheap to spend the money to simply spell out the words in full?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Hoss on August 28, 2008, 09:41:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by janle

You guys seem to be way too forgiving about the abbreviations. Why use abbreviations at all? Is Tulsa too cheap to spend the money to simply spell out the words in full?




Yeah, to just see those signs be as big as billboards?

Try putting 'One Technology Center' in full on a sign and let me know how that works out for ya!
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on August 28, 2008, 09:49:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

It's just another example of good intentions with clueless implementation.  I like the one I saw today, where the new "parking" sign blocks the content of the new "wayfinding" sign that's a few feet behind it.





I saw that one. Of course the parking sign is about 1/5th the size of the wayfinding one so it's not really obscuring too bad.


What I want to know is what is the Civic Center and who is going? I saw a sign listing directions for:
City/County Offices
Convention Center
BOK Center
Civic Center

So if the Civic Center doesn't include the city/county offices or the convention center what does that leave? Shouldn't they just say "Library?"
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: TheTed on September 18, 2008, 10:11:20 PM
A bunch of these signs have Bartlett Square listed. Are there really any visitors looking for this Bartlett Square? The only thing there is a really crappy daytime-only fountain, a bank and a restaurant that's open 15 hours a week.

If someone were looking for something in that vicinity, would directions to Bartlett Square even help? They'd be looking for Fifth and Main, not this mythical "square" that you'd only know is there by looking at the side of the fountain.

I've not seen any of the signs pointing to the Blue Dome or to the Brady district. Those would seem to be far more helpful, places that people might actually want to find.

Also, we better order about 100 more of those public parking signs if we're pointing out every parking lot that the public can park in downtown.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: TheArtist on September 19, 2008, 08:56:22 AM
There are occasional music events, Mayfest, etc. type things in and around Bartlett Square.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: EricP on September 19, 2008, 08:57:28 AM
Yeah, I noticed no signage for the Blue Dome or Brady District...... yet they have huge areas mapped out on the little maps they have here and there. pancakes?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: TheTed on September 19, 2008, 11:13:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

There are occasional music events, Mayfest, etc. type things in and around Bartlett Square.


They are few and far between. The number of people coming downtown and looking for the Blue Dome District has to completely dwarf the number looking for Bartlett Square.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on September 19, 2008, 01:10:55 PM
They are identifying public facilities. That is why their maps on podiums show you where the Jail is but not McNellie's.

Best I can tell the bartlett square signs are only about a block from the square which means if you were coming for an event on "bartlett square" you would be driving over people before you saw them.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Townsend on September 19, 2008, 02:04:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle


Best I can tell the bartlett square signs are only about a block from the square which means if you were coming for an event on "bartlett square" you would be driving over people before you saw them.




Only if you were an Owassan cheerleader looking for that damned fountain...KAPOW
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: bacjz00 on September 19, 2008, 05:01:27 PM
I've seen a few signs that indicate the Brady District..I don't recall if I've seen any with Blue Dome mentioned.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on September 20, 2008, 10:09:03 PM
Blue Dome isn't a city entity. Brady is a TIF district.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: TheTed on September 20, 2008, 11:12:15 PM
There's a Bartlett Square sign on Denver between 8th and 9th.

I'm quite certain there are at least a dozen destinations in downtown that would be more relevant to place on that particular sign than Bartlett Square.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Renaissance on September 21, 2008, 05:56:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend

quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle


Best I can tell the bartlett square signs are only about a block from the square which means if you were coming for an event on "bartlett square" you would be driving over people before you saw them.




Only if you were an Owassan cheerleader looking for that damned fountain...KAPOW



It just never gets old!
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Townsend on September 22, 2008, 09:33:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd

quote:
Originally posted by Townsend

quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle


Best I can tell the bartlett square signs are only about a block from the square which means if you were coming for an event on "bartlett square" you would be driving over people before you saw them.




Only if you were an Owassan cheerleader looking for that damned fountain...KAPOW



It just never gets old!



I know!  God Bless 'em.  

The verbage on the signs...were they made up by some out of state entity?  I know we've talked about this but Tul Comm Col...c'mon.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: PonderInc on September 22, 2008, 11:13:17 AM
My favorite sign is the one showing you how to get to the PAC (uh...Perf Arts Center) from Detroit.  

Driving north on Detroit, it instructs you to go past 3rd (look to your left and wave at the PAC as you go by), and are directed to drive north to 1st street, where presumably you will be instructed to turn west on 1st, south on Cincinnati, and back to 3rd.  (I didn't follow the route to see if it actually tells you to do this.  Just thought it was weird!)  I wonder how many people will end up at Spaghetti Warehouse, looking for the PAC?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: carltonplace on September 22, 2008, 11:58:51 AM
I know what a PAC is, but I'm in a fog as to what a "Perf Arts Cent" does.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: PonderInc on September 22, 2008, 12:50:25 PM
It makes little holes in stuff.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: dsjeffries on September 22, 2008, 12:51:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

My favorite sign is the one showing you how to get to the PAC (uh...Perf Arts Center) from Detroit.  

Driving north on Detroit, it instructs you to go past 3rd (look to your left and wave at the PAC as you go by), and are directed to drive north to 1st street, where presumably you will be instructed to turn west on 1st, south on Cincinnati, and back to 3rd.  (I didn't follow the route to see if it actually tells you to do this.  Just thought it was weird!)  I wonder how many people will end up at Spaghetti Warehouse, looking for the PAC?



Maybe they can rename it the sPACetti Warehouse.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: EricP on September 22, 2008, 02:45:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dsjeffries

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

My favorite sign is the one showing you how to get to the PAC (uh...Perf Arts Center) from Detroit.  

Driving north on Detroit, it instructs you to go past 3rd (look to your left and wave at the PAC as you go by), and are directed to drive north to 1st street, where presumably you will be instructed to turn west on 1st, south on Cincinnati, and back to 3rd.  (I didn't follow the route to see if it actually tells you to do this.  Just thought it was weird!)  I wonder how many people will end up at Spaghetti Warehouse, looking for the PAC?



Maybe they can rename it the sPACetti Warehouse.



And abbreviate it... Spa War Ho?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: PonderInc on September 22, 2008, 03:22:18 PM
LOL!
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on September 23, 2008, 10:18:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

My favorite sign is the one showing you how to get to the PAC (uh...Perf Arts Center) from Detroit.  

Driving north on Detroit, it instructs you to go past 3rd (look to your left and wave at the PAC as you go by), and are directed to drive north to 1st street, where presumably you will be instructed to turn west on 1st, south on Cincinnati, and back to 3rd.  (I didn't follow the route to see if it actually tells you to do this.  Just thought it was weird!)  I wonder how many people will end up at Spaghetti Warehouse, looking for the PAC?



City hall is roughly the same. Coming across 3rd it tells you to turn left at Detroit, a block past city hall, instead of telling you to park right at the corner of 3rd and cincinatti.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Renaissance on September 23, 2008, 11:20:06 AM
It's unfortunate, but it really sounds like these are going to have to be redone.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: EricP on September 23, 2008, 11:59:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd

It's unfortunate, but it really sounds like these are going to have to be redone.



Sounds like they just need to try and actually follow some of the directions then switch out a couple of the sign plates that have the locations on them. Shouldn't be "redoing" anything.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on September 23, 2008, 07:27:31 PM
Saw a new one today:

Rte 66 Hist Site






REALLY?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Renaissance on September 23, 2008, 09:09:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by EricP

quote:
Originally posted by Floyd

It's unfortunate, but it really sounds like these are going to have to be redone.



Sounds like they just need to try and actually follow some of the directions then switch out a couple of the sign plates that have the locations on them. Shouldn't be "redoing" anything.



I don't know, man--I'm not saying they have to rip everything out and start over, but a lot of the sign plates are nigh indecipherable.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: dbacks fan on September 23, 2008, 09:33:43 PM
It has found it's way to Phoenix,Wayfinder System (//%22http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/09/23/20080923phx-sign0924inside.html%22)
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Townsend on September 24, 2008, 09:45:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan

It has found it's way to Phoenix,Wayfinder System (//%22http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/09/23/20080923phx-sign0924inside.html%22)



Read the comments.  Looks like Phoenix has the exact same posters Tulsa has.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: EricP on September 24, 2008, 01:58:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend

quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan

It has found it's way to Phoenix,Wayfinder System (//%22http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/09/23/20080923phx-sign0924inside.html%22)



Read the comments.  Looks like Phoenix has the exact same posters Tulsa has.



I thought the exact same thing... I think these people must rove the local online news stories waiting for the next thing to rage about.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: dbacks fan on September 24, 2008, 02:57:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by EricP

quote:
Originally posted by Townsend

quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan

It has found it's way to Phoenix,Wayfinder System (//%22http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2008/09/23/20080923phx-sign0924inside.html%22)



Read the comments.  Looks like Phoenix has the exact same posters Tulsa has.



I thought the exact same thing... I think these people must rove the local online news stories waiting for the next thing to rage about.



Yes and here is where the comments go quite quickly at times....
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/DownHill.jpg)
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: PonderInc on September 29, 2008, 05:11:44 PM
I saw another funny sign today:

Brady Theater
Cain's Ballroom
Correctional Facility

I guess I misunderstood the purpose/target audience for these signs.

Another fun sign includes directions to the Williams Green.  I noticed it on 2nd Street, right next to the steps that lead up to the Williams Green.  The arrow actually points up, which is correct.  But I think they meant to drive forward.  (Not sure if there are other signs telling you to turn right on Cincinnati and right again on 3rd....)

If I had more time, I'd try to follow the directions and see where they lead.  I bet it's "a maze ing."  

I think the signs must have been created by people looking at Mapquest...before it was updated to show new 2-way streets!  They do not appear to have been created by people who actually know anything about downtown.



Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: patric on September 30, 2008, 05:42:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

It's just another example of good intentions with clueless implementation.  I like the one I saw today, where the new "parking" sign blocks the content of the new "wayfinding" sign that's a few feet behind it.


And at $740,000 from the 2006 third penny sales-tax program -- while streets and bridges crumble -- was the timing that good?
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: patric on September 30, 2008, 05:50:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

I saw another funny sign today:

Brady Theater
Cain's Ballroom
Correctional Facility


'Moss Jail'
Would have even fit.

Never understood the logic behind using euphemisms as proper names.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: inteller on September 30, 2008, 07:34:26 PM
$5000 per sign.....what a disgrace.[V]

have you seen what da mare plans on doing with part of the $3 mil donor money for the BOK center?  They are going to rip up the concrete surface that was just put in and install cast pavers.

http://www.tulsacouncil.org:8080/SuperContainer/RawData//VQGJK76Q919200884707/08-1863-1.pdf?a=1


the waste goes on....
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on September 30, 2008, 07:50:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by inteller

$5000 per sign.....what a disgrace.[V]

have you seen what da mare plans on doing with part of the $3 mil donor money for the BOK center?  They are going to rip up the concrete surface that was just put in and install cast pavers.

http://www.tulsacouncil.org:8080/SuperContainer/RawData//VQGJK76Q919200884707/08-1863-1.pdf?a=1


the waste goes on....



Wow.. really?

Time to step away from the keyboard.

If you had actually paid attention to the BOK Center you would know it is already surrounded by cast pavers. This item is just paperwork for a donation towards construction projects already complete, and now getting paid.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Hoss on September 30, 2008, 08:02:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

$5000 per sign.....what a disgrace.[V]

have you seen what da mare plans on doing with part of the $3 mil donor money for the BOK center?  They are going to rip up the concrete surface that was just put in and install cast pavers.

http://www.tulsacouncil.org:8080/SuperContainer/RawData//VQGJK76Q919200884707/08-1863-1.pdf?a=1


the waste goes on....



Wow.. really?

Time to step away from the keyboard.

If you had actually paid attention to the BOK Center you would know it is already surrounded by cast pavers. This item is just paperwork for a donation towards construction projects already complete, and now getting paid.



Details, details...LOL.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: PonderInc on October 01, 2008, 03:12:51 PM
Sophomoric: adj 1.)Conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature.

2.) Also used to describe anyone who uses the term "da mare" as a sexist slur in a public forum.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: inteller on October 01, 2008, 09:07:08 PM
call city hall and ask.  this was the first reading of an ordinance to accept donor money to add additional trees to the landscaping plan and upgrade the exising concrete surface at the entrance with cast pavers to mimic what is already on the sidewalk.
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2008, 09:15:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by inteller

call city hall and ask.  this was the first reading of an ordinance to accept donor money to add additional trees to the landscaping plan and upgrade the exising concrete surface at the entrance with cast pavers to mimic what is already on the sidewalk.



You're funny.

Again, the entrance is already cast pavers. Walk over there and look if you don't believe me. It may be the first reading but this work was done a long time ago and documented over and over including in the world that this work was done thanks to donations.

Tulsa World - August 24th:

Excerpt from "Private Money Provided Upgrades"
...The George Kaiser Family Foundation gave $2.5 million to upgrade the exterior walkways to brick pavers, the landscaping to add trees, and the main concourse flooring, ramp, and staircase to terrazo. Nadel and Gussman Energy and Samson donated a total of $500,000 for a lighting system for the icon wall...
Title: Downtown Wayfinding System
Post by: Townsend on October 09, 2008, 10:34:55 AM
At least someone's noticing...maybe they can post recognizable names now...PAC, TCC, etc.

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/1008/560000.html

If you go downtown to the new BOK Center, you'll find new signs pointing the way.  But are they pointing the right way?


This fall, the city invested nearly a million dollars on 148 new signs to help people find their way around downtown.

The signs are geared for people who are new to downtown, but we found one sign that could send a visitor on a long drive.  The signs are part of what's known as the "Way Finding System."  But like any system, we found it is not fool proof.

From the corner of First and Cheyenne, the Convention Center is just 5 blocks away.

As long as you follow the sign pointing left.. and not the one pointing to the right.

When we pointed it out to Tulsan Richard Willis, he asked "Why is it pointing that way?"

On the same block, there are two signs that point to the Convention Center.  One says to go left and the other to go right.

Of course a local could tell you, the sign pointing right is actually wrong.

Daniel Miller tells us, "If you turn that way, you're going to the jail."

Mark Brown from the City of Tulsa explains, "The sign was supposed to say 'Corrections Center.'"

Not Convention Center.

The city knows about the mistake and will ask the contractor to re-label the sign.

NewsChannel 8's Diana Zoga asked Brown, "The city spends almost a million dollars on signs.  You'd like to think all of them will be right."

Brown replied "I agree, but any project of any magnitude is going to have things that get installed incorrectly."

The city did some inspections with the contractor and came up with a list that includes adjustments to other signs, though the one we found seemed to be the most directionally challenged.

Money from the Third Penny Sales Tax was used to pay for the signs.  They cost $739,000 to build and set up, plus $240,000 for the design.