Does anyone know what the hell is going on next to Hwy 51 and the S.W. corner of S. Utica? Is this another group of those uber modern lofts going up in NoChe?
Isnt that where Bumgarners new office building is going?
quote:
Originally posted by izmophonik
Does anyone know what the hell is going on next to Hwy 51 and the S.W. corner of S. Utica? Is this another group of those uber modern lofts going up in NoChe?
The area is called Cherry St. Village not NoChe.
Bumgarner wants to build a 12 story office building.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10677
Right now it's partially a staging area for contract work ocurring at 15th/Utica Av. But eventually it will be a large office building.
Office building = lame. If I lived in NoChe I'd be unhappy. Hell, metro lofts would be better than an office building.
(http://www.dayphotocraft.com/tulsa.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by izmophonik
Office building = lame. If I lived in NoChe I'd be unhappy. Hell, metro lofts would be better than an office building.
(http://www.dayphotocraft.com/tulsa.jpg)
If you are Mr Bumgarner then office building = very tall structure that dwarfs its surroundings and is in the Faux Italianate/Tuscan vein. I wonder if he's ever seen a brick. They are used in Italy.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
QuoteOriginally posted by carltonplace
QuoteOriginally posted by izmophonik
Office building = lame. If I lived in NoChe I'd be unhappy. Hell, metro lofts would be better than an office building.
why yes....every time he looks in the mirror I would imagine.
I wish he would move to italy and leave tulsa the **** alone. We don't need his gaudy ****. all he does is prove that money can't buy you taste.
I suppose I must have very bad taste too then. The Utica Square building looks great to me.
I also think that it makes Cascia Hall more attractive. Kind of starts the NY Central Park feel of Cascia's campus.
He has my support as seemingly one of the only people around with enough stomach to actually get sizeable development accomplished in mid-town.
I love the Stillwater National building on the southwest corner of 15th and Utica. Is that a Bumgarner deal? Because it's lovely; the Arvest building across the street, on the other hand, is not.
You all want urban, then you turn around and poo poo everything urban that is taking place. No wonder Tulsa doesn't get much done. Naysayers everywhere.
quote:
Originally posted by T-TownMike
You all want urban, then you turn around and poo poo everything urban that is taking place. No wonder Tulsa doesn't get much done. Naysayers everywhere.
+1
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
I love the Stillwater National building on the southwest corner of 15th and Utica. Is that a Bumgarner deal? Because it's lovely; the Arvest building across the street, on the other hand, is not.
Arvest is Bumgarner's baby, not SNB.
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
quote:
Originally posted by T-TownMike
You all want urban, then you turn around and poo poo everything urban that is taking place. No wonder Tulsa doesn't get much done. Naysayers everywhere.
+1
I'd have to disagree that the Utica corridor is urban. It was urban when it was filled with Apartment buildings interdispersed with business and houses. What we are moving to now is large buildings surrounded by parking. Utica Place includes a parking structure. Arvest, Peiwei, Stillwater and this new building will have an ocean of parking around them.
I guess my other issue with the developments is the lack (IMHO) of creativity in design and material.
Surely this 12 story building will have a parking struture. The site isn't big enough for that much surface parking.
quote:
Originally posted by SXSW
Surely this 12 story building will have a parking struture. The site isn't big enough for that much surface parking.
Did you say "parking structure"? I didn't think Tulsan's knew what those were. Downtown, Expo...we loves us some of them flat lots.
(http://www.dayphotocraft.com/tulsa.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
quote:
Originally posted by T-TownMike
You all want urban, then you turn around and poo poo everything urban that is taking place. No wonder Tulsa doesn't get much done. Naysayers everywhere.
+1
I'd have to disagree that the Utica corridor is urban. It was urban when it was filled with Apartment buildings interdispersed with business and houses. What we are moving to now is large buildings surrounded by parking. Utica Place includes a parking structure. Arvest, Peiwei, Stillwater and this new building will have an ocean of parking around them.
I guess my other issue with the developments is the lack (IMHO) of creativity in design and material.
+1
Just because it's built up to the street doesn't mean it's automatically urban. It's just an improved suburban model.
quote:
Originally posted by SXSW
Surely this 12 story building will have a parking struture. The site isn't big enough for that much surface parking.
Hard to tell, they say it will, but then again the building has not even been designed yet and Bumgarner has not secured tenants. Bumgarner is only in talks with potential tenants. This seems to be a very speculative venture with no firm commitments.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
What we are moving to now is large buildings surrounded by parking. Utica Place includes a parking structure. Arvest, Peiwei, Stillwater and this new building will have an ocean of parking around them.
The previous occupying structure was surrounded by parking as well.
Google Street View (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=15th+and+Utica,+Tulsa,+OK&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.042042,59.0625&ie=UTF8&ll=36.144685,-95.967207&spn=0.004488,0.00721&z=17&layer=c&cbll=36.142416,-95.967714&panoid=kAhCQRXRo0BKZ-QRXjaD7Q&cbp=1,170.76125822637493,,0,7.940849672310264%22)
Google Street View 2 (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=15th+and+Utica,+Tulsa,+OK&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.042042,59.0625&ie=UTF8&ll=36.146556,-95.966413&spn=0.009235,0.015085&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.142021,-95.967238&panoid=QK8ysgo_oXt3sT7AtxxjtQ&cbp=1,252.2212638041998,,0,3.950207114975983%22)
Are we not going to be seeing increased density due to this project? Just curious. I would love to see some architectural drawings or renderings, so that I can make a better analysis of this.
A couple of apartment buildings and houses on Troost lost their lives to the new building's footprint, I'm not sure if its a density wash or not but to me office building means 8-5, apartment means 24-7.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
A couple of apartment buildings and houses on Troost lost their lives to the new building's footprint, I'm not sure if its a density wash or not but to me office building means 8-5, apartment means 24-7.
I see what you mean (I finally Google street-viewed over there since I'm at work). I would have rather seen high-rise residential replace existing residential, but I am pleased at seeing high-rise commercial replacing existing low-density commercial in this case.
Maybe, if we're lucky, this will be a mixed use building. Ground floor retail, mid-floors office, and upper floors residential. I wouldn't count on it, but we can dream and hope.
the problem with bumgarner's designs is that he really thinks they are beautiful...I mean he is so full of it that he cant see that the same dreck is done everywhere else. When he was busy making his mouth punching comments during South Town Market discussions he said that it would be the most beautiful thing in south tulsa, not like that other "riff raff" up and down memorial. Then when I saw the design I was like "this is just some BS facades with EIFS and more fake donkey cornices!" but because the power lines are going to be buried it will be oh so wonderful....BFD!
the guy is so blinded by his own ego that he cant see that the crap he is building has zero creativity. i wonder if he gets a little tickle in his pants every time he walks by a building with EIFS and a tile roof?
In Bixby they have a design committee that ensures architectual harmony as part of the planning. Tulsa does not. When you sit and think about that for a minute that is just sad.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
A couple of apartment buildings and houses on Troost lost their lives to the new building's footprint, I'm not sure if its a density wash or not but to me office building means 8-5, apartment means 24-7.
it is right off of a major highway, which is 24-7, next to an enertainment district.....and you don't want apartments to lure those coveted young professionals why?
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
the problem with bumgarner's designs is that he really thinks they are beautiful...I mean he is so full of it that he cant see that the same dreck is done everywhere else. When he was busy making his mouth punching comments during South Town Market discussions he said that it would be the most beautiful thing in south tulsa, not like that other "riff raff" up and down memorial. Then when I saw the design I was like "this is just some BS facades with EIFS and more fake donkey cornices!" but because the power lines are going to be buried it will be oh so wonderful....BFD!
the guy is so blinded by his own ego that he cant see that the crap he is building has zero creativity. i wonder if he gets a little tickle in his pants every time he walks by a building with EIFS and a tile roof?
In Bixby they have a design committee that ensures architectual harmony as part of the planning. Tulsa does not. When you sit and think about that for a minute that is just sad.
That may be the worst idea I have heard in a while. Are you proposing yet another barrier to progress in Tulsa? Ridiculous. I bet you would propose that you should be the founding member of this "design committee".
According to you, if it looks like everything else it must be bad. How does that jive with "harmony as part of the planning"?
If it takes an ego to get something done in Tulsa right now then so be it.
I think the Utica Place building is beautiful. I also like how it has structured parking. I also like his building on the corner of 21st and Utica. The Arvest Building...sucks lol.
I hope this office tower on Utica also has structured parking. Though it would have been nice for it to have been a midrise apartment building, a good sized office building right there will help flesh out the area and make it truly more "mixed use". A person can live, shop, eat, play, and now have an office, all within a short walking distance. Truly mixed use areas arent just about living, eating and shopping. Plus that allows for people to have many more businesses be nearby that they may use. Insurance office, tax preparers and accountants, etc. etc.
quote:
Originally posted by BierGarten
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
the problem with bumgarner's designs is that he really thinks they are beautiful...I mean he is so full of it that he cant see that the same dreck is done everywhere else. When he was busy making his mouth punching comments during South Town Market discussions he said that it would be the most beautiful thing in south tulsa, not like that other "riff raff" up and down memorial. Then when I saw the design I was like "this is just some BS facades with EIFS and more fake donkey cornices!" but because the power lines are going to be buried it will be oh so wonderful....BFD!
the guy is so blinded by his own ego that he cant see that the crap he is building has zero creativity. i wonder if he gets a little tickle in his pants every time he walks by a building with EIFS and a tile roof?
In Bixby they have a design committee that ensures architectual harmony as part of the planning. Tulsa does not. When you sit and think about that for a minute that is just sad.
That may be the worst idea I have heard in a while. Are you proposing yet another barrier to progress in Tulsa? Ridiculous. I bet you would propose that you should be the founding member of this "design committee".
According to you, if it looks like everything else it must be bad. How does that jive with "harmony as part of the planning"?
If it takes an ego to get something done in Tulsa right now then so be it.
oh boy, sounds like we have the start of the bumgarner fan club! Let me guess, your club house will have a clay tile rood and EIFS walls.
At least Bumgarner actually gets things built, unlike so many other developers who come out all blabbing about what they're going to build, but never do.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I think the Utica Place building is beautiful. I also like how it has structured parking. I also like his building on the corner of 21st and Utica. The Arvest Building...sucks lol.
I hope this office tower on Utica also has structured parking. Though it would have been nice for it to have been a midrise apartment building, a good sized office building right there will help flesh out the area and make it truly more "mixed use". A person can live, shop, eat, play, and now have an office, all within a short walking distance. Truly mixed use areas arent just about living, eating and shopping. Plus that allows for people to have many more businesses be nearby that they may use. Insurance office, tax preparers and accountants, etc. etc.
It's a medical office building. There's plenty of that in the area already. There won't be any insurance offices, tax preparers, accountants, etc.
If this building would be on the same scale as Arvest or SNB I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Hell, I'd rather see the proposed homeless shelter at Admiral & Yale go in at this location instead of what Bumgarner is proposing, considering that Metro Lofts and their counterparts have economically cleansed the area of almost all the affordable housing. Not to mention the fact that Bumgarner let the buildings that faced Utica become a blighted, unsecured, de facto homeless shelter, for squatters for many years anyway. That is, when he was not donating the use of the building to the Brad Carson "Oklahoma Party" coordinated campaign that nearly bankrupted the Oklahoma Democratic Party.
LaFortuna is on your side Aa.........
I was out of pocket, but considering the BOA last couple of rulings on this issue, I assume this was unsuccessful... at least I hope so.
Board of Adjustments meeting item from 8/26/08
1402 S LEWIS AV
Variance of the 1,200 ft. spacing requirement for an outdoor advertising sign from another outdoor advertising sign on the same side of the highway (Section 1221.F.2)
Bill LaFortune, 1100 Mid-Continent Tower, 918.582.5281
her is a pic (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1400+S+Lewis+Tulsa+OK&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=36.147267,-95.957379&spn=0.008352,0.012789&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.143074,-95.958355&panoid=8z0OM00vO885E1pe-FjuqA&cbp=2,352.5716122286725,,1,-7.909479628516718%22)
of the area "Tubby" feels good use a good size additional billboard piece of art.
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
LaFortuna is on your side Aa.........
I was out of pocket, but considering the BOA last couple of rulings on this issue, I assume this was unsuccessful... at least I hope so.
Board of Adjustments meeting item from 8/26/08
1402 S LEWIS AV
Variance of the 1,200 ft. spacing requirement for an outdoor advertising sign from another outdoor advertising sign on the same side of the highway (Section 1221.F.2)
Bill LaFortune, 1100 Mid-Continent Tower, 918.582.5281
her is a pic (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1400+S+Lewis+Tulsa+OK&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=36.147267,-95.957379&spn=0.008352,0.012789&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.143074,-95.958355&panoid=8z0OM00vO885E1pe-FjuqA&cbp=2,352.5716122286725,,1,-7.909479628516718%22)
of the area "Tubby" feels good use a good size additional billboard piece of art.
You ain't seen nothing yet. I heard the buildings on that corner are about to be scraped for new construction. Too bad they didn't extend the boundaries of the Lewis study to 11th. There would have been some design guidelines to get good infill to replace the existing structures instead of anything goes if ya got the gold.
Double A, which buildings? The AT&T building at 14th and Lewis? Trying to get a picture in my head.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Double A, which buildings? The AT&T building at 14th and Lewis? Trying to get a picture in my head.
Click on the link in Rico's post for a street view. It's North of the B.A., west of Lewis across the street from Hasty Bake. The buildings in question could be more accurately be described as homes, although I believe they are currently not used as residential, but commercial properties. I could be wrong. I hope they move these houses instead of demolishing them. They look to be in pretty good shape. It would be a shame to see perfectly homes that could be reused go to waste in a landfill.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
the problem with bumgarner's designs is that he really thinks they are beautiful...I mean he is so full of it that he cant see that the same dreck is done everywhere else. When he was busy making his mouth punching comments during South Town Market discussions he said that it would be the most beautiful thing in south tulsa, not like that other "riff raff" up and down memorial. Then when I saw the design I was like "this is just some BS facades with EIFS and more fake donkey cornices!" but because the power lines are going to be buried it will be oh so wonderful....BFD!
the guy is so blinded by his own ego that he cant see that the crap he is building has zero creativity. i wonder if he gets a little tickle in his pants every time he walks by a building with EIFS and a tile roof?
In Bixby they have a design committee that ensures architectual harmony as part of the planning. Tulsa does not. When you sit and think about that for a minute that is just sad.
how many architecturally significant structures do you see in bixby? to me their views on architectual harmony equals suburban crap.
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Double A, which buildings? The AT&T building at 14th and Lewis? Trying to get a picture in my head.
Click on the link in Rico's post for a street view. It's North of the B.A., west of Lewis across the street from Hasty Bake. The buildings in question could be more accurately be described as homes, although I believe they are currently not used as residential, but commercial properties. I could be wrong. I hope they move these houses instead of demolishing them. They look to be in pretty good shape. It would be a shame to see perfectly homes that could be reused go to waste in a landfill.
Ahh, at 13th Pl and Lewis.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
quote:
Originally posted by Double A
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
Double A, which buildings? The AT&T building at 14th and Lewis? Trying to get a picture in my head.
Click on the link in Rico's post for a street view. It's North of the B.A., west of Lewis across the street from Hasty Bake. The buildings in question could be more accurately be described as homes, although I believe they are currently not used as residential, but commercial properties. I could be wrong. I hope they move these houses instead of demolishing them. They look to be in pretty good shape. It would be a shame to see perfectly homes that could be reused go to waste in a landfill.
Ahh, at 13th Pl and Lewis.
Yeah, I was talking properties pictured on the link.
O.K. I am new here and DO NOT want to cause an issue or insult anyone. But, I do have a question if I may? I have been reading this forum for a while and notice that there are several comments against parking lots (surface) and the fact that a new business is going in and they will put in a parking lot. Now, I understand a lot on here are midtowners and want density (I am not opposed) and people should not be lazy and afraid to walk from their homes to a business, etc... But, if there is no parking at these new businesses how can people from other areas of town or from out of town visit these businesses? What is the alternative that you all are asking for? I am sure you are not saying no new businesses and no body come to our part of town, so where do they park? There is not enough room on side streets, and if you did people would complain about cars in front of their houses and insist they city put up "No Parking" signs.
Seriously, I am interested in what your ideas are. I want to learn from your knowledge if I may?
Thanks, for your time and not flaming me off the board.
Structured parking like his buildings by Utica Square. Off street parking and shared parking, or a combination of all types.
In many cities shared parking is often used. Say you have a residential parking lot or garage that is mostly used during the evening, then during the day a good portion of it can be used for business. Look at downtown and how a lot of the parking lots are full during the day, but its a desert during the night. You can build a large apartment building and not have to add one single parking space. And every parking space doesnt have to be immediately on or near the new property.
You look at the full range of parking options in each individual area and not just simply mandate that every building or business have a certain number of parking spots on that property.
Understand what you are saying and the logic. Surface parking lots are an eyesore but unfortunately it is what those of us who have lived our entire lives in Tulsa are used to seeing. I do travel on business but am not usually in an area or position to inspect alot of what is in other areas.
What would be your suggestion for say around TU and Chapman stadium where the parking if you did build a garage would be mostly empty except for a few weekends a year. There really is enough on campus for students just an issue during big events. Or, is there a real good answer that is cost productive (is that a correct phrase)?
Just curious on others ideas, I truly want to understand your thoughts and learn more about others ideas. IF we will listen to each other, work together, maybe we can be a loud enough unison voice to be heard. Just a thought.
A parking garage doesn't need to be just for parking. They can be built with first floor retail facing the street. They don't even have to look like a parking garage (see San Antonio, New Orleans, Chicago) they can "blend" in with other structures and can be multi-use.
In Tulsa a good expample is the Bank of America Building that has parking on the middle floors, office at the top and a bank branch at the bottom.
At TU a parking garage makes sense for students that don't live on campus and that structure could be used for events when students are not in class, but you'll always have on street parking for foot ball games just the way it is today.
A better place for structured parking would be around TCC downtown that could be used by students during the week and by church goers on the weekend and evenings. Imagine a coffe shop, book store, restaurant, WIFI shop on the bottom floor. This frees up alot of surface parking to be developed for other uses (Le Arteest's Cathedral Square idea for one).
The church parking lots are really the worst surface parking lots/wasted space since for the most part they get used twice a week.
I posted on another thread that I can walk in a bee-line from 13th and Cheyenne to 7th and Main after 6PM without walking around either a car or a building. That is truly a shame in what should be a dense urban area.
Redskin^
Can you find the parking structure in this picture......? There is one.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/8Washington.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
Board of Adjustments meeting item from
1402 S LEWIS AV
Variance of the 1,200 ft. spacing requirement for an outdoor advertising sign from another outdoor advertising sign on the same side of the highway (Section 1221.F.2)
Bill LaFortune, 1100 Mid-Continent Tower, 918.582.5281
her is a pic (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1400+S+Lewis+Tulsa+OK&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=36.147267,-95.957379&spn=0.008352,0.012789&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.143074,-95.958355&panoid=8z0OM00vO885E1pe-FjuqA&cbp=2,352.5716122286725,,1,-7.909479628516718%22)
of the area "Tubby" feels good use a good size additional billboard piece of art.
Its item #3 on the BOA agenda
Tuesday, September 23 1:00 PM
The City Council gave a definitive 'Yo!' to the rezoning of the corner to High Intensity Office last night; Christiansen being the only dissenting vote.
Now the only question remaining: Can Bumgarner get the tenant he needs to fill the project? I for one, hope so. Regardless of whether I like his curly ques or not I like this density on that corner and am glad the Council agreed.
quote:
Originally posted by OurTulsa
The City Council gave a definitive 'Yo!' to the rezoning of the corner to High Intensity Office last night; Christiansen being the only dissenting vote.
Now the only question remaining: Can Bumgarner get the tenant he needs to fill the project? I for one, hope so. Regardless of whether I like his curly ques or not I like this density on that corner and am glad the Council agreed.
Lol...You don't think he already has one...?
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
quote:
Originally posted by OurTulsa
The City Council gave a definitive 'Yo!' to the rezoning of the corner to High Intensity Office last night; Christiansen being the only dissenting vote.
Now the only question remaining: Can Bumgarner get the tenant he needs to fill the project? I for one, hope so. Regardless of whether I like his curly ques or not I like this density on that corner and am glad the Council agreed.
Lol...You don't think he already has one...?
ok, I should have said 'Can Bumgarner get the tenant he needs to fill the project
soon?
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
Board of Adjustments meeting item from
1402 S LEWIS AV
Variance of the 1,200 ft. spacing requirement for an outdoor advertising sign from another outdoor advertising sign on the same side of the highway (Section 1221.F.2)
Bill LaFortune, 1100 Mid-Continent Tower, 918.582.5281
her is a pic (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1400+S+Lewis+Tulsa+OK&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=36.147267,-95.957379&spn=0.008352,0.012789&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.143074,-95.958355&panoid=8z0OM00vO885E1pe-FjuqA&cbp=2,352.5716122286725,,1,-7.909479628516718%22)
of the area "Tubby" feels good use a good size additional billboard piece of art.
It was continued to 10/14/08.
This tends to wear down the opposition, but there's nothing preventing anyone from asking for a letter to be read into the record.
Was there ever a rendering available for this project, and is it still happening? I noticed dirt work the last time I was in that area.
Living close by and seeing this empty lot every time I get off the BA at Utica makes me wonder when (if?) this project will start. Even if it's not 12 stories it would be nice to see something. In the mean time a local produce tent has set up shop.
Ideally the office building would front Utica with a corner entrance at 14th, similar to Bumgarner's bank building at 21st, with parking underground. The other half of the block along Troost would be urban townhomes.