Local politicos are proclaiming the need for $451 to $2 billion in proposed new taxes to fix Tulsa's streets.
Here, in the great tradition of a local TV Station's retired, signature "Chuck Hole of the Week" award, let's try and name which Tulsa streets we think should be considered in the Tulsa Street DISHONOR Roll of bad, beat-up, streets.
I'll start:
I-44 to 41st on Peoria; Ruffles, Ridges and potholes abound.
Good thing there's a Midas Muffler store right there to straighten out sudden wheel misalignments and busted shock absorbers.
Of course, if you just happen to wonder off east at 48th and Peoria and run by Henthorne Park, you can also observe the 7th STRAIGHT year of no WATER in the public swimming pool at Henthorne Park.
No lifeguard.
Gate chained shut.
These issues, bad streets and only 4 of 22 Public Pools publically funded, are not EXACTLY related, but they kind-of, sort-of are in fact related:
They are about City of Tulsa mis-prioritization of Spending.
Feel Free to name what you consider as your very own:
BAD TULSA Street.............
Then, RecycleMichael can forward to the Mayor when we've finished our little list. I'm sure it will be quite short.
So short in fact in will be able to walk UNDER doors on its own power.
Shall we BEGIN?
In my neighborhood and in the areas of Tulsa where I drive, the streets aren't that bad. There are a few terrible spots, and I try to avoid those. But many of the streets are brand new or less than 5 years old.
Not knowing what exactly will appear on the ballot this November, I can say now that I most likely will be voting against any of the street packages presented so far. I don't trust the local officials to spend the money wisely on streets and maintenance.
I think we're wasting money on stupid projects such as installing faux brick pavers in crosswalks along Peoria and downtown which are expensive, but which make the conditions for drivers and pedestrians more dangerous by creating rough, uneven roadways. I think the acorn street lights installed along Boston Maul, Main Maul, and numberous other places are another example of squandered tax dollars. I think replacing the large fountain at Bartlett Square with a roundabout surrounding a much smaller fountain was way off the mark in terms of spending Tulsan's precious tax dollars responsibly (although it does seem to be a bullseye for Owasso residents).
Much of the recent repair and replacement work I've noticed on Tulsa's streets and sidewalks is inferior in quality to what was there before. City officials might think it's a wonderful idea to rip up numerous streets downtown at the same time during a tight labor market, and to leave them ripped up for months and years, but I don't. I find replacing asphalt paving with thick concrete on downtown streets of dubious value because there are so many buried utilities which will need excavation and repair. I also think it's silly to install the concrete paving first, and then rip brand new concrete out to work on buried utilities, as I witnessed recently at 2nd and Boulder. To me, it makes more sense to complete the underground utilities before installing the expensive paving over them. JMO
Downtown, I prefer the Patton brothers' original grid layout to the disrupted pattern of streets, alleys, and blocks City officials have been creating recently. The one-way streets don't bother me so much as long as they work as adjacent couplets, but I abhor super-blocks, cul-de-sac dead-ends, and the IDL. I think the right-of-way widths dictated for most streets are too wide and wasteful. I'd like to see more compact and walkable neighborhoods which wouldn't require as much infrastructure per capita and would allow people to drive less in order to fulfill their everyday, ordinary wants and needs.
The worst street in Tulsa that I drive (very slowly) on is 13th street from Main to Boston. It's like going off-road. Bad. Really bad.
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
In my neighborhood and in the areas of Tulsa where I drive, the streets aren't that bad. There are a few terrible spots, and I try to avoid those. But many of the streets are brand new or less than 5 years old.
I agree. The roads in my neighborhood are in great shape and where I work downtown is all new. It is the state and federal roads in Tulsa that have the holes my car seems to hit.
I was talking to Councilor Martinson about the roads package at a party last night. He says that it takes the 2 billion package to fix the job right and he says he thinks it is important to do it right.
It is hard to disagree with someone who wants to do the job right. I just don't think that the roads are so bad that Tulsans will be willing to spend that much money.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaMINI
The worst street in Tulsa that I drive (very slowly) on is 13th street from Main to Boston. It's like going off-road. Bad. Really bad.
Yep. That's in my neighborhood.
But yet, City officials chose to completely re-build streets only a few blocks away which were in much, much better condition than 13th Street. This is a good example of mis-directed priorities and why I do not trust local officials to spend our precious taxes efficiently.
31st and Harvard the intersection is in bad shape....
Not that I don't trust your motives but....
"These issues, bad streets and only 4 of 22 Public Pools publically funded,"
How many are privately funded?
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
In my neighborhood and in the areas of Tulsa where I drive, the streets aren't that bad. There are a few terrible spots, and I try to avoid those. But many of the streets are brand new or less than 5 years old.
I was talking to Councilor Martinson about the roads package at a party last night. He says that it takes the 2 billion package to fix the job right and he says he thinks it is important to do it right.
It is hard to disagree with someone who wants to do the job right. I just don't think that the roads are so bad that Tulsans will be willing to spend that much money.
It's easy for me to disagree with Councilor Martinson because I don't think we have set the correct priorities. Perhaps the City has spent tax dollars on the intended projects as he claims (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080730_11_A11_hHesay23160%22), but I see some of those projects as stupid junk which are worse quality than what was there previously.
Useless fluff, IMO.
And the perception of mis-spent third penny and bond funds is based on deeper of issues of a perception of a profound inbalance of power in Tulsa. Councilor Martinson certainly is aware of those perceptions, or at least I hope he is.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by booWorld
In my neighborhood and in the areas of Tulsa where I drive, the streets aren't that bad. There are a few terrible spots, and I try to avoid those. But many of the streets are brand new or less than 5 years old.
I agree. The roads in my neighborhood are in great shape and where I work downtown is all new. It is the state and federal roads in Tulsa that have the holes my car seems to hit.
I've hit a few holes recently. But I've learned to avoid those areas. I don't drive very much in the first place. Even though I use our expressways sometimes, I'm not fond of them, and I wouldn't mind seeing them removed.
- North Lewis between 36th St. N and 46th St. N.
- South Lewis around 25th St.
- South Peoria in Brookside (32nd to 41st).
- Riverside from around 55th to 31st has some rough areas.
- Eastbound on-ramp to the Broken Arrow from Utica.
- The intersection of 11th and Sheridan.
- South Harvard between 1st and 11th.
quote:
Originally posted by Mike G
- South Peoria in Brookside (32nd to 41st).
Yes, and there is a reason that stretch of Peoria is rough and dangerous. The brick-like concrete unit pavers made a mess of it. This is another example of mis-directed priorities in how we spend scarce tax dollars and why I don't trust City officials to make the responsible decisions regarding streets.
Martinsen should know darn good and well his package won't pass the way it is. There may be a few people in south Tulsa that will vote for it but I've not talked to one who is goimg to vote yes. We will get the vote out for this too. Zip code 74137 has the highest voting percentage in OK.
Don't forget Martinsen's plan has a lot of other garbage in it besides fixing the roads.
If he takes all of that out..his plan is really for the most part KT's plan. As is, his plan will go down in flames.....JMO
18th and Boston - the whole intersection is a mess, and 18th is bad all the way over to Denver.
Lewis, from 21st to 41st is literally crumbling.
31st from Utica to Lewis is rough.
The concrete medians on Rivrside have exposed rebar in some areas.
Mostly the state funded roads like the IDL and the BA at 15th are the worst.
Neighborhood streets seem fine everywhere I go... may not be that way everywhere.
I really don't think the streets seem any worse than any other city I go to...
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Not that I don't trust your motives but....
"These issues, bad streets and only 4 of 22 Public Pools publically funded,"
How many are privately funded?
Mayoral aide Susan Neal said on T-Gov recently during a City Council sub-committee meeting that 6 pools are being privately funded.
So, with the city funding 4 pools, that means only 10 of 22 Tulsa city pools are open this summer.
Neal also indicated that the average cost to open and operate a single City pool was $35K-$60K for the summer.
P.S. I notice ALL the Tulsa County Pools are open.
Why doesn't the city give our pools to the county to operate, since the County are so flush with ad valorem tax money.....which has a 5% floor increase each year??
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa1603
18th and Boston - the whole intersection is a mess, and 18th is bad all the way over to Denver.
Lewis, from 21st to 41st is literally crumbling.
31st from Utica to Lewis is rough.
The concrete medians on Rivrside have exposed rebar in some areas.
Mostly the state funded roads like the IDL and the BA at 15th are the worst.
Neighborhood streets seem fine everywhere I go... may not be that way everywhere.
I really don't think the streets seem any worse than any other city I go to...
No one's named East 41st Street between I-44 and Sheridan Road, especially eastbound.
That is a certified Tire Torture Track!
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
P.S. I notice ALL the Tulsa County Pools are open.
All four of the county pools are open.
The city has 22 pools. Some of the pools need rehabilitation. Pools can be very expensive to maintain.
My backyard pool has cost me hundreds of dollars this year. I make the kids swim, just to get my money's worth.
It's maintained by ODOT, but the ramp from 41st Street (Skelly Drive) to WB I-44 is terrible. The pavement is extremely rough, and the sight lines at where the ramp merges with I-44 are dangerous (not to mention a short merge lane).
All the neighborhood streets between Denver and Boulder, 16th to 17th Pl (University Club) could be renamed Beirut.
Yale from 21st south to 31st is very rough. Not much better on the south side of 31st. either.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
P.S. I notice ALL the Tulsa County Pools are open.
All four of the county pools are open.
The city has 22 pools. Some of the pools need rehabilitation. Pools can be very expensive to maintain.
My backyard pool has cost me hundreds of dollars this year. I make the kids swim, just to get my money's worth.
If the city government is a pauper, and the county is rich with funds, then just either turn all of City of Tulsa's parks over to the county to run, or else divert part of the county revenue stream over to the city.
It has been a travesty for 7 years that all the city pools cannot be open. Mayor MisFortunates mis-Admistration was the first time in memory that the city could not afford to open the public pools, albeit occasionally one did not open on schedule due to some unforeseen defect in the pool.
The TPD, the TFD, the Public Works Dept, all seem to have a powerful and organized constituency, and hence they get the Lion's Share of the city tax dollars to spend.
THE
CHILDREN OF TULSA evidently have NO ONE advocating for them.
Pity the poor children of Tulsa whose family cannot afford their own backyard, in-ground pool like RecycleMichael.
[:O]
That little stretch of Lewis Ave. from Admiral to 91st street south.
Falling apart, underwater when it rains, and full of blind corners and dangerous intersections. Oh yeah! . . . and bad drivers.
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
THE CHILDREN OF TULSA evidently have NO ONE advocating for them.
Pity the poor children of Tulsa whose family cannot afford their own backyard, in-ground pool like RecycleMichael.
How do you know my pool is an in-ground and is in my backyard? Have you been stalking around?
I gots to get me some bear traps.
Yes. there are many advocating for the chldren. My family has always been active in youth issues.
Stop acting like you care for the children. Name one thing you have done to advocate for children's issues.
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
All the neighborhood streets between Denver and Boulder, 16th to 17th Pl (University Club) could be renamed Beirut.
I know, it looks third world there with all of the holes and pices of ashpalt laying in the street, but its just as bad across 15th St to the North at 14th and 13th Streets. Cheyenne between 13th to 14th should be closed
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
THE CHILDREN OF TULSA evidently have NO ONE advocating for them.
Pity the poor children of Tulsa whose family cannot afford their own backyard, in-ground pool like RecycleMichael.
How do you know my pool is an in-ground and is in my backyard? Have you been stalking around?
I gots to get me some bear traps.
Yes. there are many advocating for the chldren. My family has always been active in youth issues.
Stop acting like you care for the children. Name one thing you have done to advocate for children's issues.
YOU basically told me you have an in-ground swimming pool, by stating:
"My backyard pool has cost me hundreds of dollars this year".
Only a idiot would pay hundreds of dollars a year to maintain a blow-up, above-ground rubber wading pool in their back yard.
And, I wouldn't call RM an idiot.
Maybe a lot of other names are suitable, but certainly not idiot.
As to being an advocate for children's issues, my tax dollars help pay for the highest priced public education system in the world, for starters.
For another, trying to get some attention on this Forum about messed up city priorities that only fund 4 of 22 city pools certainly is a Child Advocacy issue.
The other private efforts I make on behalf of children is a private matter, not a matter I would share with RecycleMichael.
See, it's Nobody's business.
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I question rather or not it's a safety issue with the Broken Arrow Expressway bridge over Lewis Ave.
(I'm being serious...)
How about a photo contest? [B)]
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
I question rather or not it's a safety issue with the Broken Arrow Expressway bridge over Lewis Ave.
(I'm being serious...)
Unless the neglect of maintenance and repair of State Dept. of Transportation highways here in Tulsa is part of an elaborate, purposeful, COLLABORATED softening up process to get Tulsa voters to vote $1.8 billion in new street taxes, then let's just write it off to:
Incompetence.
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
All the neighborhood streets between Denver and Boulder, 16th to 17th Pl (University Club) could be renamed Beirut.
Except for the intersection at Carson Ave, 17th St is in good condition.