I read this morning where a fellow with a "pre-existing condition" ran a four way stop sign and killed a young pregnant woman. Much attention has been paid to drinking and cell phoning while driving. We might want to re-examine some things as our unhealthy population starts to fall apart.
Consider:
-About 30% of Okies are morbidly obese. Not just fat. Morbidly obese. It causes difficulty in operating motor vehicles.
-Although we passed laws to hold bartenders liable for allowing drunken patrons to drive on our streets, we make no such liability for hospitals and clinics who discharge patients who can't even walk to their vehicles! They are often weak from bed time, surgery, drugs and still rehabilitating. We help them from the wheelchair to the drivers seat and walk away. I know, I see it every day.
-Lastly, those of us who drive all day know that many people are either too stupid, too pre-occupied or too old to be driving on our streets. We need to keep testing drivers periodically to assure they haven't lost their skills or forgotten the rules. These are powerful weapons we drive and we cavalierly give them to anyone who can float a loan.
What is keeping us from addressing these issues?
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I read this morning where a fellow with a "pre-existing condition" ran a four way stop sign and killed a young pregnant woman. Much attention has been paid to drinking and cell phoning while driving. We might want to re-examine some things as our unhealthy population starts to fall apart.
Consider:
-About 30% of Okies are morbidly obese. Not just fat. Morbidly obese. It causes difficulty in operating motor vehicles.
-Although we passed laws to hold bartenders liable for allowing drunken patrons to drive on our streets, we make no such liability for hospitals and clinics who discharge patients who can't even walk to their vehicles! They are often weak from bed time, surgery, drugs and still rehabilitating. We help them from the wheelchair to the drivers seat and walk away. I know, I see it every day.
-Lastly, those of us who drive all day know that many people are either too stupid, too pre-occupied or too old to be driving on our streets. We need to keep testing drivers periodically to assure they haven't lost their skills or forgotten the rules. These are powerful weapons we drive and we cavalierly give them to anyone who can float a loan.
What is keeping us from addressing these issues?
Anyone can notify Oklahoma DPS about someone they think should not be driving, but you can not remain anonymous (like in some states).
I doubt being fat qualifies, but I suppose if you could articulate a specific reason for that person, ......
Police often notify DPS about drivers who should be re-evaluated, which, in most instances, is medical related.
Families can certainly help in a big way by taking a step to convince grandma/grandpa to no longer drive if they suspect they are a danger to the road. You just have to be brave enough to get involved.
I could position myself in front of a dialysis operation and call DPS all day. These people come out weary and disoriented from a cool a/c clinic to a blast of summer heat. Same thing with a hospital. They wheel them out, spoon them into their Buicks and the rest of us have to cover for them in traffic. In fairness, most families pick them up and ferry them home, but there are a lot who are on their own. My dad is 86, uses a walker and sees double. He has an active drivers license. Isn't this silly?
With 30% of our population morbidly obese, it is a sensitive subject. Everyone has someone in their family that struggles with weight. However, it should be acknowledged that when it interferes with your driving, then others are impacted. A drivers license is a privilege not a right. When you can't turn your body around to look behind you, when you can't perform evasive manuevers, parallel park etc. then maybe your license should be suspended.
I dunno. The more I'm out in traffic the more I see the craziness of putting 3000 lbs with 250 hp into the hands of people who can't even walk straight.
btw, thanks for posting Wilbur. Its certainly not as earthshaking as lofts, arenas, stadiums and politics. At least I don't have to suffer the shame of having no one respond!
A hot button for me is old drivers. I think we need a max. driving age of 70 years old. I'd also like to see the teen driving age raised from 16 to 18. Both groups are very dangerous. I live near the Lincoln Village Retirement Center in Columbus, Ohio and those oldsters are very dangerous I seen it all. It helps to stay off the sidewalk too. Airline pilots have a max. age of 60, no matter how healthy they are at age 60 no more flying commerical air craft. There's a reason for that law. I think at age 70 it's time for drivers to hang up the keys, we can get more of those Senior vans for oldsters to get around in.
Re-testings oldsters does not seem to work, many times they can keep re-taking the same test over & over & over till they pass one day. What's the point of a test if you can keep re-taking it over & over till you pass it? They wind up back on the road. As we age we just lose our ability to drive, it's natural we all slow down as we age. I'm in my 50's and I don't drive as well as I did when I was in my 40's. I'm sure when I'm 60 my driving ability will of droped off even more. Driving is all eye-brain-reaction. As we age the eye sees danger and it takes longer for the brain to process that danger and tell the body what to do. re-action time is of most importance in driving, Micro seconds can mean alot. I take alot of heat for these views but I believe in them and I stand firm. For more info just google "dangerous old drivers" or just "old drives" tons of scary stuff comes up. Age 70? hang up those car keys, and enjoy life hit the beach and relax.
Paul Newman was driving competitively in his 70's. I think the testing of skills with a limit to the number of times you can take the test would work. I drive better now in my 50's than I did in my 20's. More patience, more experience and more ability to see the "big picture". But at some point my physical skills of reaction time, acuity and flexibility will take its toll. A skills test would show that.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Paul Newman was driving competitively in his 70's. I think the testing of skills with a limit to the number of times you can take the test would work. I drive better now in my 50's than I did in my 20's. More patience, more experience and more ability to see the "big picture". But at some point my physical skills of reaction time, acuity and flexibility will take its toll. A skills test would show that.
I'd bet your reaction time is way down, you don't know it though. If you had a reaction test done at 20 years old and one at 50 years old you'd likely see a big change. Anyhow I just think at age 70 it's time to hang up the keys, At 70 your retired and don't need to drive to work. Most cities have senior van services. AirLine pilots have to stop flying at age 60 no matter how healthy they are. By googling "dangerous old drivers" or just "old drivers" you'll see how bad it is. I also think age 16 is too young to drive that should be raised to 18. Teens crash because they show off and use cell phones and don't pay attention.. The old folks crash because they lost the ability to drive. Driving is all eye-brain-and react. What the eye sees the brain has to process that info and tell the hand/feet what to do. As you age that process slows way down and driving ability slips.
Sauer-- Please remember to return to TulsaNow to share your thoughts on driving at 70 when you are 69. My mother is 73 and a very youthful 73. Believe you me, if I thought she was a danger in any way, I would yank her keys in a heartbeat. I could not even imagine her having to rely on a senior wagon to get around. Or GOD FORBID me! She is perfectly capable of driving and way more skilled than a 16 year old texter.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Paul Newman was driving competitively in his 70's. I think the testing of skills with a limit to the number of times you can take the test would work. I drive better now in my 50's than I did in my 20's. More patience, more experience and more ability to see the "big picture". But at some point my physical skills of reaction time, acuity and flexibility will take its toll. A skills test would show that.
I'd bet your reaction time is way down, you don't know it though. If you had a reaction test done at 20 years old and one at 50 years old you'd likely see a big change. Anyhow I just think at age 70 it's time to hang up the keys, At 70 your retired and don't need to drive to work. Most cities have senior van services. AirLine pilots have to stop flying at age 60 no matter how healthy they are. By googling "dangerous old drivers" or just "old drivers" you'll see how bad it is. I also think age 16 is too young to drive that should be raised to 18. Teens crash because they show off and use cell phones and don't pay attention.. The old folks crash because they lost the ability to drive. Driving is all eye-brain-and react. What the eye sees the brain has to process that info and tell the hand/feet what to do. As you age that process slows way down and driving ability slips.
Airline pilots have to retire from the Airlines at 60. This age has been the subject of legitimate discussion in the aviation world. They do NOT have to surrender their pilot certificate. As long as they can pass a biennial (every other year) review by an instructor and, for most categories, a physical exam, they can continue to fly.
My grandfather continued to drive well past age 70. At some point, I don't remember the exact age, he stayed off the expressways and major roads. He limited his speed to that which he could handle with his diminished reaction times. He stayed on secondary roads even though they took longer. If he had a few cars behind him, he would pull over and let them pass. I rode with him at at least age 80 and felt safer than when I had been with some teen age driver friends. Driving ability (and flying) is to be judged on an individual basis. As we get older, that evaluation should occur more often than when we are younger. My grandfather was a pretty smart cookie. He stopped driving at about age 90. He lived to 95. Let us know how you feel when you turn 70.
To waterboy: What was the "pre-existing condition"? Did the article say?
quote:
Originally posted by Lora
To waterboy: What was the "pre-existing condition"? Did the article say?
They didn't. Makes me wonder if there might be some pending lawsuit issues or if they just showed some compassion. I'm guessing a condition that required medication.
I was once discharged with a cast on my leg and pain medication that surely slowed reaction time and my foot even hung up on the brake pedal, yet I drove to work daily for many weeks. And yes, I rear ended someone with the cast on. An old man who stopped suddenly to make a left. He gave no signal and his brake lights didn't work. Blind leading the blind.
Some day we will look back and wonder what we were thinking when we allowed most anyone over 16 to slide behind the steering wheel of a four wheel mobile bomb and take off. Much like we wonder now about our borders and how we used to let just anyone walk onto an airplane without hesitation.
There are just 3 issues here:
Allowing medically unsafe drivers to operate. (Even a bar tender is responsible for drunks.)
Retesting for skills and rules knowledge. (I don't believe reaction time is all that important.)
Limitations on size and physical ability (too large, too small, missing key body parts).
My gut feeling is that these issues are largely ignored because of economic concerns and fear of more bureaucracy mixed in with our fierce independence. As people become more comfortable with public transportation and denser inner city living these issues may diminish.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Paul Newman was driving competitively in his 70's. I think the testing of skills with a limit to the number of times you can take the test would work. I drive better now in my 50's than I did in my 20's. More patience, more experience and more ability to see the "big picture". But at some point my physical skills of reaction time, acuity and flexibility will take its toll. A skills test would show that.
I'd bet your reaction time is way down, you don't know it though. If you had a reaction test done at 20 years old and one at 50 years old you'd likely see a big change. Anyhow I just think at age 70 it's time to hang up the keys, At 70 your retired and don't need to drive to work. Most cities have senior van services. AirLine pilots have to stop flying at age 60 no matter how healthy they are. By googling "dangerous old drivers" or just "old drivers" you'll see how bad it is. I also think age 16 is too young to drive that should be raised to 18. Teens crash because they show off and use cell phones and don't pay attention.. The old folks crash because they lost the ability to drive. Driving is all eye-brain-and react. What the eye sees the brain has to process that info and tell the hand/feet what to do. As you age that process slows way down and driving ability slips.
Airline pilots have to retire from the Airlines at 60. This age has been the subject of legitimate discussion in the aviation world. They do NOT have to surrender their pilot certificate. As long as they can pass a biennial (every other year) review by an instructor and, for most categories, a physical exam, they can continue to fly.
My grandfather continued to drive well past age 70. At some point, I don't remember the exact age, he stayed off the expressways and major roads. He limited his speed to that which he could handle with his diminished reaction times. He stayed on secondary roads even though they took longer. If he had a few cars behind him, he would pull over and let them pass. I rode with him at at least age 80 and felt safer than when I had been with some teen age driver friends. Driving ability (and flying) is to be judged on an individual basis. As we get older, that evaluation should occur more often than when we are younger. My grandfather was a pretty smart cookie. He stopped driving at about age 90. He lived to 95. Let us know how you feel when you turn 70.
If he stayed off freeways and drove real slow he must of known he was not able to drive safely. His reaction time puts others at risk. As for me, I wish I could stop driving now, with the cost of fuel, car repair, insurance and up keep I could use that money elsewhere... And I don't like fighting freeway traffic every day. But I have to drive my job requires it. I'm in my 50's and I don't drive as well as I did 20 years ago my reaction time is slower, we all age and slow down it's part of nature.. I just favor a max. driving age. I strongly believe in it. It will save many lives. Google "old drivers"..
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
If he stayed off freeways and drove real slow he must of known he was not able to drive safely.
Define "real slow". He stayed off the 65 and 70 mph roads. If you're going 40 to 45 on a 50 mph road, you will collect a following. I see that around Tulsa all the time, and the drivers are not necessarily old. They don't pull over either. I don't think you need unlimited speed Autobahn skill levels to be safe on secondary and neighborhood roads. At some point we will all need to stop operating motor vehicles. It depends on the individual.
If you believe you have lost that much of your driving ability, maybe we should pull your license now. The fact that your job requires driving doesn't make you any less a menace to the rest of the driving public. Find another job.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
If he stayed off freeways and drove real slow he must of known he was not able to drive safely.
Define "real slow". He stayed off the 65 and 70 mph roads. If you're going 40 to 45 on a 50 mph road, you will collect a following. I see that around Tulsa all the time, and the drivers are not necessarily old. They don't pull over either. I don't think you need unlimited speed Autobahn skill levels to be safe on secondary and neighborhood roads. At some point we will all need to stop operating motor vehicles. It depends on the individual.
If you believe you have lost that much of your driving ability, maybe we should pull your license now. The fact that your job requires driving doesn't make you any less a menace to the rest of the driving public. Find another job.
"Real Slow" means going to slow for the flow of traffic. Forcing other cars to drive around. As for my driving ability, we all lose our reaction time as we age. it's normal. No 50 year old has the reaction time of a 20 year old. Teens crash because they show off and don't pay attention. Old drivers crash because of lost ability. I just feel that at 70 years old it's time to hang up the keys. I live near a retirement center so I seen it all. The older a driver gets, the higher the accident rate and that seems to point to the fact that as we age our reaction time and driving ability are lost, otherwise age would not matter and an 80 year old could drive like a 30 year old, but they can't. That's why race car drivers are young people. Not too many 70 year olds race cars. the eye-brain-reaction link we need in driving slows down too much. it's normal it's natural.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
"Real Slow" means going to slow for the flow of traffic. Forcing other cars to drive around.
You obviously haven't driven in Tulsa for a while. "Real Slow" happens all the time around here and it has nothing to do with old drivers, just discourteous ones. Unfortunately you can't get around them because they are side by side in front of you filling all the lanes.