My wife, my 2 year old, and my one month old were walking tonight on our street, about 9:30 (because it is too hot to walk earlier), and we just took a direct hit from the mosquito control truck.
I saw him coming, and I tried to flag him down (he was driving to fast anyway) but he did not stop, and he did not stop his sprayer. I am not sure it would have mattered if he did, honestly. We could taste it in our mouths, and I could feel it in my eyes.
My concern is really about my kids...I recognize that West Nile Virus is an issue, but really, am I willing to let my infant and toddler inhale a bunch of chemicals to prevent it?
If anyone knows anything about this chemical or program please let me know. I am calling the City-County Health Dept tomorrow to issue a complaint...I feel like the driver should have stopped to let us get out of the way... or at least have been able to shut down his fogger. Needless to say....I am pissed.
Better living through chemistry. But......
http://nhs.needham.k12.ma.us/cur/environment/Envir00_01/p6/gpapd6/malthion.htm
When I find out what they are using, I'll post it.
The Tulsa City/county health department has a mosquito control section.
The phone number is 595-4219.
Here is their website...
http://www.tulsa-health.org/environmental-health/mosquito-control/?lid=518
One of my sons was asthmatic when he was younger. We got caught coming home from the park one evening and had even waited after we saw the truck to continue forward. It was still enough to set his asthma off.
Besides being responsible I beleive in the lose of honey bees around here I douhbt it was more helpfull than harmfull.
If the city would fix the fire hydrant leak on our street it would help a bunch in stopping the birthing around here.
Contact the Tulsa City-County Health Department at (918) 582-WELL (9355) and ask for Environmental Protection.
Tell them of the fire hydrant leak and also report it to the City Water Department
[To report Leaks or Outages, call: 918-596-9488]
You would have needed to follow the THD Mosquito Control truck around all night, inhaling as much as you could to do any type of harm. I've seem neighborhood kids running behind the trucks before and they were no worse for wear than before!
Call THD, they're not in the business of hurting the public.
THD is in the business of protecting the health of the public!
Resmethrin more than likely....
The good news: You are going to gain superpowers.
The bad news: Those powers are the ability to buzz really loud in someone's ear and to suck blood.
I'm not a chemical expert, but I wouldn't worry about it. It has to be a very common occurrence and the EPA/NIH and a ton of other three letter entities certify this crap. People used to sit in clouds of DDT at picnics with no ill effects.
Probably not preferable, but not worth stressing out about.
There's an infantile part of my brain that's convinced it's mind control drugs.
Death! [}:)]
Mosquitoes can get pretty thick in my neighborhood, but the only reluctance I would have to spraying is the loss if the fireflies.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I'm not a chemical expert, but I wouldn't worry about it. It has to be a very common occurrence and the EPA/NIH and a ton of other three letter entities certify this crap. People used to sit in clouds of DDT at picnics with no ill effects.
Probably not preferable, but not worth stressing out about.
Yeah, they would have to use something that is not that toxic because people are around. However, If I seen the truck coming I'd have moved as far away as I could, whatever is in the stuff it can't be good for you. Our car got sprayed one time when I was kid by a crop duster in a field, we seen it coming and everyone rolled up their windows. That stuff must be even worse. That was in the 1960's.
I thought they used Malathion. It has very low toxicity for humans and animals.
To my knowledge it's the only chemical listed and approved for public health mosquito control applications. I don't think anything else is listed for this use at all.
I would almost guarantee that this is what they are using.
But also remember that toxins for adults would be totally different than toxins in small children who are developing...def. would stay away from it all. \
I'm becoming increasingly leery about the use of pesticides, for reasons that will become clear.
I'm a hobbyist beekeeper. As you've probably heard in the past year or so, there is a disease called Colony Collapse Disorder. I once had a few beehives as a teenager, then revived my hobby in 2005 because the number of honeybees worldwide dropped sharply in recent decades because of mites. I figured that since pollination produces a multibillion-dollar agricultural benefit of honeybees, I figured I'd do my part to help the species survive. (My neighbors like my bees just fine; thanks for asking.)
I subscribe to the American Bee Journal (yes, there is such a magazine ... been published since 1861) and several online groups. CCD indeed is complex, with a bunch of factors that could be causing it. But a bunch of beekeepers and scientists are starting to zero in on pesticides, especially neonicitinoids, as a prime suspect. Apparently the testing of neonicitinoids wasn't robust before it was released to the public, and scientists are starting to find troubling side-effects with it in other species, including the possibility of autism in children.
I get a bit miffed when otherwise well-meaning people recommend pesticides and herbicides in their garden when some natural oils or a hoe can take care of the problem more safely.
I get a tad homicidal when fools like Tom Coburn start spouting off about how Third World countries should start using DDT again to combat mosquitoes. How dumb. DDT has already been widely proven to be harmful to the food chain, and he wants to bring it back? How idiotic.
I understand the concern of mosquito control to prevent diseases. But one should remember that the seemingly easy way out very likely will have unintended and far-flung consequences.
That is all.
Bayer?
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
I get a bit miffed when otherwise well-meaning people recommend pesticides and herbicides in their garden when some natural oils or a hoe can take care of the problem more safely.
I'm with you! I can kill just about anything I want with soap, vinegar, or neem oil.
I haven't had to use a commercial pesticide in years.
I drink more than my share of Gin and Tonic so my chances of contracting malaria are fairly low, and my bug zapper provides hours of entertainment and a fairly mosquito free back yard.
Here is what I use...
http://www.mosquitobarrier.com/
It is expensive at 85 bucks a gallon but a gallon will last me all summer.
It is 99% concentrated garlic oil. It kills on contact, but more effectively makes a barrier that drives them to my neighbor's yards. It also leaves a thin coat on water that prevents the larva from hatching.
If you have no standing water, you mix four ounces oer gallon of water in a canister sprayer. If you do have standing water, you add a little canola oil and liquid soap.
It smells like garlic for a little while so my neighbors also think I am a good cook.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
my bug zapper provides hours of entertainment and a fairly mosquito free back yard.
I think those fell out of favor when it was determined that they killed more beneficial insects than pests.
--- that and the worst shock I ever got was from cleaning an agricultural-sized zapper. Owww.
I'll be sure and turn the spray off next time. I thought your waving was trying to swat the mosquitos.[}:)]
settle down, it is pyrethrins. you could drink that **** and still be fine.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/9/11673248_828e4b52bf.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by brunoflipper
settle down, it is pyrethrins. you could drink that **** and still be fine.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/9/11673248_828e4b52bf.jpg)
NO YOU CANNOT DRINK PYRETHRINS! True they are dirivitive of the Chrysanthemum family of flowers, but they are a very very toxic neuro-inhibitor.
Ingestion will cause numbness first then paralysis and then DEATH. Skin exposure will cause irritation and rash. They will burn your eyes like mace. They have also linked exposure to pyretherin by pregnant women in the first and second trimester to autism.
They are not listed for municipal spray programs, so if the city is using them they are in violation. Pyertherins also break down very quickly in the environment, so a blanket spray program would be very ineffective because residual action is limited.
Don't ever tell people somthing in not toxic, unless you know it's not toxic.
[xx(]
I guess Kenosha never found out what THD uses or hasn't posted yet, but I have a direct connect to several within the THD Mosquito Control.
Here's what they had to say:
We are using two types of pesticides to control the mosquito population. We are using Evoluer 4-4 for nuisance mosquitoes and DUET (dual-action adulticide) for WNV mosquitoes. Y you can do a search on these and find out all the information you need.
Here's what I found on a quick Google search:
What is Evoluer?
Evoluer products are traditional oil-dilutable mosquito adulticides containing proven chemistry combination of Permethrin and the synergist piperonyl butoxide (PBO). Permethrin is a pyrethriod insecticide, a synthetic form of natural pyrethrum. While PBO by itself does not have pesticidal activity, it does enhance the effectiveness of Permethrin by reducing the insects ability to defend itself from the active ingredient.
How to Use.
Barrier Application: Apply to control and exclude flying and resting mosquitoes in urban and residential areas, golf courses, parks, recreation areas and other public areas. Apply by low pressure hand held sprayers, backpack sprayers or truck mounted mist blowers.
========================================
DUET combines two actives: sumithrin, the active ingredient in Clarke's signature adult control product, Anvil™, and prallethrin, known for its superior knockdown. These two actives work in concert to provide excellent control under a variety of operating conditions.
DUET has the same environmental profile as Anvil, which is widely regarded as having minimal environmental impact. There are no reentry precautions for DUET and no special steps need to be taken by residents in areas where DUET is applied. Very little DUET is required for superior control -- it is applied in very low dosages of .41 fl oz/ac to 1.25 fl oz/ac of formulated product. In lay terms, one to just over three tablespoons of formulated product treats an area the size of a football field.
========================================
THS sent me the info... The spray they use is called "Scourge" it is a mixture of Resmethrin and Piperonyl Butoxide as the active agents and Aromatic Petroleum Solvent as the "inert" agents. It's the inert agents that worry me more than the Resmethrin, frankly.
Of course they say, in the safety information things like "Scourge is one of the least toxic adulticides available."
Very reassuring.
They give info on short term effects...skin irritation, harmful if swallowed, Humans might experience transient headache, dizziness, stuffy or runny nose, and scratchy throat.
They give vague info on long term effects, that, frankly contradict what I could find online, mostly from information sheets that other communities that use this spray
The THD info stated that the active ingredients were not oncogenic (cancer), teratogenic (birth defects), fetotoxic, neurotoxic, or mutagenic....the REST of the info sheets I gathered from states like New York (//%22http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/westnile/education/2739.htm%22) and Connecticut (//%22http://www.hort.uconn.edu/IPM/homegrnd/htms/scourge.pdf%22) suggested that for active ingredients, Resmethrin and Piperonyl Butoxide, large doses have been found to cause liver damage and/or tumors in the liver (to rats). They did say that they were extremely large doses in terms of body mass ratios.
There is very little info on the mysteriously named Aromatic Petroleum Solvent... except that it is a petroleum based product. I found one website, an organization called the Cancer Prevention Coalition, who review consumer products that specifically could be cancer causing. The only insecticide they reviewed was Scourge. I don't know anything about the organization, or how reputable they are, but they have a far different take on the product when it comes to public health. Here is the link: http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/household/scourge.htm
quote:
Scourge/Resmethrin Insecticide: Q&A
jump to links
Q. What is Scourge?
A. Scourge is an insecticide used to kill adult mosquitoes. Its active ingredients are Resmethrin and piperonyl butoxide which act together to kill mosquitoes. About one-fourth of the Scourge formula is "inert ingredients," including petroleum by-products.
Q. Why should I be concerned about the use of Scourge?
A. Scourge is harmful to both the environment and humans.
Ecologically, it is harmful to trout, shrimp, and other marine life. Its label warns: "THIS PRODUCT IS TOXIC TO FISH AND BIRDS. DO NOT APPLY TO LAKES, STREAMS OR PONDS." There is still much that remains poorly understood about the ecological damage caused by Scourge. According to EPA studies, however, one thimbleful of Scourge is enough to kill the trout in an average one acre shallow pond. Scourge is applied at about three times this rate.
Q. What are the human health effects of Resmethrin?
A. Public health is seriously threatened by Scourge. The label of Scourge warns that inhalation is the greatest hazard for humans. "AVOID BREATHING, VAPOR OR SPRAY MIST." Unpublished data by the manufacturer reveal that Resmethrin is cancer-causing, with specific risk of liver and thyroid cancers. Unless homes are air-tight and windows are closed at the time of spraying, all residents living in the vicinity of Scourge applications are at risk from inhalation.
Q. Are the so-called "inert ingredients" of Scourge hazardous?
A. Yes, the inert ingredients in Scourge are of great concern. The EPA and the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health have emphasized that the inerts used in Scourge are frequently contaminated with the potent carcinogen benzene, a well documented cause of leukemia and other malignancies. There are many case reports on these inert ingredients causing respiratory problems including irritant and allergic responses, asthma and conjunctivitis following inhalation or skin exposure to Scourge.
Aside from the dangers of Resmethrin and the inerts, there are no data on the cancer-causing effects of Scourge itself. This does not mean it is not cancer-causing, only that research has not been conducted. There is reason for concern, however, because chemical hazards often have additive effects. Recent studies published in the reputable and peer-reviewed journal Science have shown that some pesticides, when used together, have 1000 times the adverse human health effects of either alone. Scourge has not been examined for these types of "synergistic" effects.
In addition to cancer-causing effects, there are unresolved questions about the reproductive and developmental problems that Scourge can cause.
Q. What about my children? Are they more vulnerable to Scourge?
A. Children have more skin surface for their body weight and breathe more rapidly than adults do. For this reason, they are likely to have higher exposures to these chemicals than adults. Recent research has shown that this increased exposure can not only raise their risk of cancer and other chronic disease, but can place them at risk for neurological and behavioral problems during this important phase in mental development. Some have even suggested links between Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder and exposure to pesticides.
The elderly, and those with health problems are also particularly vulnerable to the effects of Scourge and other toxic chemicals. When immune system functioning is low, toxics can have more dramatic effects.
Q. Are there safe alternatives to Scourge for controlling mosquito populations?
A. Mosquito control is often justified because mosquitos can carry disease, such as encephalitis. However, the use of Scourge and other toxic adulticides is never justified for nuisance control. There are two alternative approaches for controlling risk of mosquito-borne illness.
The first approach is based on public education and personal protection. It includes remaining indoors at dawn and dusk, installing and maintaining window and porch screens, wearing protective clothing, and minimal application of mosquito repellents to the exterior of clothing (not skin).
The second approach involves eliminating mosquito larvae in stagnant waters where they breed. By eliminating breeding areas with open marsh management procedures that are sensitive to wetland integrity, mosquito populations can be reduced. The most effective and long-term method for marsh water management is drainage of stagnant standing water in culverts, ditches, on public grounds and in residential areas.
Non-toxic larvicides are more effective than toxic adulticides for mosquito control. Selective application of small amounts of larvicides can achieve a great reduction in mosquito populations in contrast with the large amounts of adulticides needed to penetrate massive air space. Larvicides include: the application of larvicide oil which in thin films block larval breathing tubes; predators or parasites which under controlled ecological conditions can be used to keep larva populations down, and some natural insect toxins which can be applied to poison larvae without harming the surrounding ecosystem.
As the New York Department of Public Health emphasized in 1989: "Unless specific public health threats exist -- the benefits (of adulticide spraying) are outweighed by its potential adverse effects on health and the environment.
The information above is adapted from the testimony of Dr. Samuel Epstein at the Open Forum of the North Shore Mosquito Abatement District, Cook County, Illinois on September 30, 1996.
More...
New Study Feeds Pesticide Debate, Chicago Sun Times
CONTACT:
Samuel S. Epstein, M.D.
Chairman, Cancer Prevention Coalition
c/o University of Illinois at Chicago
School of Public Health, M/C 922
2121 W. Taylor Street
Chicago, IL 60612
epstein@uic.edu
I remember chasing the DDT trucks in the 1950s. There is no problem with me, with me, with me....
Just kidding. Any pesticide has benefits and down sides. Both must be weighed.
They are saying completely harmless, but they could be blowing smoke...
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8781106
Anyone think it might have had any impact on this summer's dwindling Lightning Bugs?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/09/01/thailand.fading.fireflies.ap/index.html
(That's Fireflies for you out-of-towners)
Someone asked the Straight Dope about the absence of fireflies in some areas. The possible reasons for this are more numerous and complex than you may have anticipated:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2259/where-have-all-the-fireflies-gone
BTW, the Straight Dope didn't think the pesticides is a likely cause, mostly because the U.S. uses pesticides *less* than it did three or four decades ago.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
quote:
Originally posted by brunoflipper
settle down, it is pyrethrins. you could drink that **** and still be fine.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/9/11673248_828e4b52bf.jpg)
NO YOU CANNOT DRINK PYRETHRINS! True they are dirivitive of the Chrysanthemum family of flowers, but they are a very very toxic neuro-inhibitor.
Ingestion will cause numbness first then paralysis and then DEATH. Skin exposure will cause irritation and rash. They will burn your eyes like mace. They have also linked exposure to pyretherin by pregnant women in the first and second trimester to autism.
They are not listed for municipal spray programs, so if the city is using them they are in violation. Pyertherins also break down very quickly in the environment, so a blanket spray program would be very ineffective because residual action is limited.
Don't ever tell people somthing in not toxic, unless you know it's not toxic.
[xx(]
wow, missed that, i know the toxicity of pyrethrum... of course you should not drink it... but you'd literally have to ingest a massive amount (750-1000 mg/kg of the actual pyrethrin- go look at the % concentration of any of your household pesticides and you do the math) to reach a lethal dose.... the lethal doses are relatively large in comparison to almost all other pesticides... the point was that they are relatively safe in comparison to the alternatives... any aerosolized compound can set off an asthmatic...
We finally had a decent firefly population this summer. Something naturally relaxing about sitting on the patio and just following the flights of lightning bugs as they interact with each other.
Brings your blood pressure down.
Came to an abrupt end Monday night around 11pm when the mosquito sprayer truck came through.
Not a single firefly left, but the bats are still hunting the mosquitoes that remain (I had hung a bat house this spring to cut down on mosquitoes without having to spray).
Makes the yard seem empty now.